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Huh, Why was Amuro the protag of Gundam again?

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Thread images: 14

Char has a much more interesting background.

If Char were the main character. Then Gundam would be like Code Geass but with much more cool looking robots.
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Geass is already an honorary gundam show anyways.
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>>12186884
Well done bad guys are usually more interesting than the main characters because they need clear and understandable motivations as to why they are bad. Good guys can just react to them and the situation. Poorly done bad guys are just evil for evil's sake.
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>>12186884
Within 0079 specifically, Amuro has less of a backstory but a lot more character progression. A lot of the point of the show was to portray war as a bad thing that fucks people up and changes them despite the fact that it's using giant robots to do this.
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>>12186884
I would like to watch Gundam with original Tomino story. With Amuro dying at the middle of the series and Char working with the White Base crew.
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>>12186884
That's why Code Geass exists in the first place, OP.
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Knowing that Char is damaged goods, a sociopath, and unable to love anyone but himself and Lalah, whose name he constantly cries at night, would you still try to make this man your husbando?

No homo.
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>>12186884
>If Char were the main character. Then Gundam would be like Code Geass but with much more cool looking robots.

The thing is, at the time Gundam was made, it was simply using Char to fill the same role a bunch of other masked men or technically evil yet somehow oddly sympathetic villains had already played in other robot shows, particularly the Romance trilogy.

Amuro is a way less interesting character than Char, but he is perhaps easier to relate to, especially considering this was meant to be a series for kids, at heart.

Char being the protagonist might have made for cool stuff, but it wasn't likely to happen in that context.
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>>12187090
Nah.

It's all right like how it is.
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>>12187110
No. I'd like to become Char myself: A great leader, a good pilot in a cool red MS with nice goals to achieve and a cute woman by my side (Either Lalah or Nanai).
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>>12187110
I believe I can fix him.
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>>12187145

A boy with mommy issues who becomes a genocidal madman after your Lalah is murdered, your Kamille is made retarded, and your hopes and dreams are dashed?
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>>12187148
Fuck you, I actually laughed out loud at this.

"He tried to drop Axis on the earth and murder billions of people."
"He's fine. He's just like a puppy with a broken leg whose mother abandoned it was he was little. If I feed him by hand from a bottle and teach him how to trust and love again, he'll be okay despite the genocide. You'll see."
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>>12187160
At least I'll get my Axis and a newtype researcher with Frederika Greenhill's voice.
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>>12187160
Char shoulda just taken care of potato!Kamille together with Fa instead of going on a confused and ultimately pointless rampage.
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>>12187187
We need an OVA about Char's life between Zeta and CCA: his last meeting with sister, probable invlolvement in Glemy Rebellion, meeting with Nanai etc.
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>>12187145
I don't think you're see how the bad far outweigh the good with him..
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>>12188033
If this is the guy who thinks that Char wasn't merely using Nanai, even though Char says as much himself in CCA, then he probably doesn't.

This man isn't capable of love. Maybe at first he felt something for Lalah, he was on the cusp of some kind of emotion, but after she died and over the years whatever that was got twisted into something bizarre and perverse.
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>>12186910
Yeah CG just made the mistake of using real colonies instead of space colonies. And that's why it doesn't have Gundam before it.
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Char is shit.
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>>12186884
Because he was wrong about everything
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>>12186931
>> Poorly done bad guys are just evil for evil's sake.

You mean like Code Geass' villains.
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>>12188602
B-but they tacked on a rushed out-of-nowhere instrumentality plot onto Emperor Wakamoto's motivations...
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>>12188602
>You mean like Code Geass' villains.
Not in the way you're suggesting at least. Sure, there are a lot of evil Britannian grunts. But that's the same for almost every mecha show. And,considering the villain protagonist of the series is Lelouch, technically, and that the other two opposing "main bad guys" weren't really "evil for evil's sake...I wouldn't say that.
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>>12188610
Honestly, it wasn't out-of-nowhere, given that there are some rather blatant (in retrospect) references to what he was doing in the first half of that season. That is, long before the details of his plan were openly revealed.

Either way, even before that it still doesn't qualify as "evil for evil's sake" so that angle is poor criticism.
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Like most Gundam protagonists, Amuro starts out the audience proxy. Boring, kind of irritable nerd, has his foibles, but not too loudly, so the audience can insert themselves, and then over time takes on his own life.

Unlike, say, Kira Yamato, who is ONLY an audience proxy, and has no actual personality of his own.
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>>12188941
>>12188941
>Unlike, say, Kira Yamato, who is ONLY an audience proxy, and has no actual personality of his own.
And unlike Kamille, who starts off by alienating the audience and slowly wins them over over the course of the show.
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>>12188953
>alienating
>punches people who talks shit at him
At least he's a much better archetype than Shinji Ikari
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>>12188953
>alienates
Nigger his antics were far too amusing to hate.
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>>12188941
>Unlike, say, Kira Yamato, who is ONLY an audience proxy, and has no actual personality of his own.

This also applies to Banana.Which is why he is the dullest UC protagonist.
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>>12187090
The book isn't his original plan. Going by the script all that would have changed is that Amuro blows up the Zabis instead.
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>>12187090

That oddly sounds like Blake's 7...which came around about a year before Gundam.
>>
But I liked Amuro.

He started as a kid thrown into war which is interesting and makes you root for him as the underdog.
Then the fucker is way too whiny for a long time so you dislike him.
And later when muh matilda gets obliterated he steps up and becomes a pretty cool guy, but loses a bit of touch with his friends.
This alienation is later touched upon with lala, with whom he finds a connection, and so there's hints at the end that it could be just the same with Sayla and Him, but the series ends, and we know nothing about them together after that even if Char shipped his sister to Amuro straightforwardly.

Char might have a more interesting background, but Amuro is pretty well developed during the course of the series.

Char is fantastic of course.
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>>12186931
>Poorly done bad guys are just evil for evil's sake.

Bullshit, look at the ancient villains of antiquity. A lot of them were villains simply because they were pricks or selfish or childish, and they were still good archetypes.

Don't call a characterization type bad when the reality is that a shitty writer isn't good at writing a pure evil villain.
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>>12190503
I myself just don't like those characterizations. I prefer when good and evil is more grey instead of black and white.
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>>12190503
This. Sauron is basically Middle Earth's Satan (actually that title belongs to his old master, but that's neither here nor there), and he's a great villain because he creates such a sense of dread and fear just by the mention of him. All that despite him actually being powerless during the entirety of the LotR trilogy, just being a depowered Maiar whose only real influence that still lingered was the power of corruption.
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Amuro's role as the protagonist had a significant (and, frankly, essential) thematic purpose. He was more or less the underpinning of the entire story.
>>12187203
No we don't. Not every little thing in the timeline needs to be filled and explored. The Origin makes that mistake more than enough on its own.
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>>12190532
>I myself just don't like those characterizations.

That doesn't mean they're bad. That's not how quality works, it's entirely independent of opinion.
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>>12190558
>That's not how quality works, it's entirely independent of opinion.
Wrong.

You can dislike something and still believe it to be good--that doesn't mean it's "objectively" good though. That's still just an opinion. Intrasubjectivity =/= objectivity.
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>>12190558
I'm not the same guy that said they were bad. But how is quality not dependent on opinion?
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>>12190562

And what's objectively true is there's no such thing as a bad archetype, just bad writers. Literally any character type can work with the right behind writing it.
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>>12190565
right person*
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>>12190564

Because if it was, then if you claimed a bad thing as good because you like it, then it's good.

It's like the logic of "I only like good things, so if I like this then it must be good and if I don't then it's bad"
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>Charfags back on /m/ in abundance

God I can already tell 2015 is going to suck ass
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>>12190583

I don't know how one can be a Charfag, since as cool as he looks on screen, the whole point of his character is that he's kind of a loser.
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>>12190583
THE ORIGIN is basically "Gundam starring Char" for the flashback arc, so deal with it.
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>>12190582
>Because if it was, then if you claimed a bad thing as good because you like it, then it's good.
So basically the way modern art critics think when they give "different" or "controversial" stuff awards?
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>>12190595
First episodes are, not the main series.
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>>12190535
Morgoth's motivations were clearly defined in The Silmarillion as wanting to create as Eru Iluvatar did, which was not his purpose. In that he fell, and took other Ainur with him. Sauron's motivation in LOTR is not explained because it really isn't the focus of the story. Tolkein had a clear understanding of why his characters were evil beyond evil for evil's sake.
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>>12190611


Only four episodes will be animated for the moment
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>>12190582
>then if you claimed a bad thing as good because you like it, then it's good.
See >>12190562

Of course it's dependent on opinion.
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>>12190615
>Sauron's motivation in LOTR is not explained

Except it is. It's very clearly explained, he wanted to dominate all life.

THAT was the thing that we didn't get a why for. We knew his motivation, just not the motivation for his motivation, for lack of a better way of putting it.
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>>12190629

I judge quality from a purely objective standard, so no, my opinion has no relevance upon it.

>inb4 you can't judge a creative work completely objectively

Can't you?

>does this game function without breaking? Is it programmed such that it contains a minimal amount of bugs?
>is the sound properly mixed and not cause audio issues?
>does the animation not frequently have off-model shots? Do characters act consistently with their characterization? Are there plot points that are brought up and then never mentioned again or answered?
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>>12190652
>I judge quality from a purely objective standard
>I judge
>objective
I'm not sure you understand the subject/object distinction.
>Can't you?
No.

>does this game function without breaking? Is it programmed such that it contains a minimal amount of bugs?
Wanting a game to be bug-free is a preference. A largely common one, but still a preference.
>is the sound properly mixed and not cause audio issues?
What constitutes "proper" mixing? What is an "issue"? Even if everyone agreed, that wouldn't be objective. Just a consensus.
>does the animation not frequently have off-model shots?
Again, trends in preference =/= objectivity.
>Do characters act consistently with their characterization?
This is less clear cut than you make it sound. People are complex, and "consistency" can be difficult to determine. And, again, wanting consistent characters is also a preference.
>Are there plot points that are brought up and then never mentioned again or answered?
Again, mere preference.

Even if everyone on the planet was uniform in their criteria (along with the resultant judgments based on this criteria) it wouldn't be "objective." Intersubjectivity is not objectivity.
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>>12190685

Then by your logic, nothing is objective except math.
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>>12190685
>I'm not sure you understand the subject/object distinction.
Not him, but I'm an objectivist, which says that the truth exists regardless of what you think of it and is immutable. If something is right then it is right no matter how much you think it's wrong.
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>>12190693
Pretty much. How many things can be said to be purely objective?
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>>12190706
Morality.
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>>12190630
This.

Sauron wanted to impose his will. While Morgoth couldn't create, so he was going to destroy and corrupt, change what's made to his image.
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>>12190630
>THAT was the thing that we didn't get a why for.
If you could, wouldn't you?
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>>12190702
What I posted doesn't conflict with that.
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>>12190709
No. Moral realism is beyond goofy.
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>>12190736
Actually if you read anything in objectivist philosophy written in the 1940s and onwards, it kinda does.

>>12190740
First off, moral realism and moral objectivism are not the same thing.

Secondly, The Golden Rule, the concept formed by every religion and culture at some point, was not born out of any philosophy or thinking because cultures all think differently, but out of an inherent truth: the people are treated the way in which they treat others
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>>12190753
>Actually if you read anything in objectivist philosophy written in the 1940s and onwards, it kinda does.
How so? My post was denying that those examples were cases of objective truth claims. It said nothing about the nature of truth. Noumenon vs. phenomenon.
>>>12190753
>moral realism and moral objectivism are not the same thing.
The terms are almost always synonymous. What's the distinction you're making?

>>12190753
>The Golden Rule, the concept formed by every religion and culture at some point, was not born out of any philosophy or thinking because cultures all think differently, but out of an inherent truth: the people are treated the way in which they treat others

Intersubjectivity =/= objectivity.
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>>12190565
>Literally any character type can work with the right behind writing it.

God dammit now I'm picturing somebody trying to design a character while holding a pen with their asscheeks.
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>>12190770
>How so?
Have you actually read The Fountainhead?

>The terms are almost always synonymous. What's the distinction you're making?
Moral realism isn't based on absolutism, it's based upon using philosophy to resolve moral conflicts.

>Intersubjectivity =/= objectivity.
It is not about agreement, it is about something greater than people. Something that existed without humans having to give it meaning. It is Truth with a capital T.
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>all that lovey dovey emotions for sayla none for char
goddamn char had a hard life poor kid.
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>>12190793
Oh. You meant Randian Objectivism. Outside of the Randian Objectivist sense, the terms "moral objectivism" and "moral realism" are almost always synonymous. Moral realism is moral objectivism.

>it is about something greater than people
Not really. How can it be greater than people when it's only knowable through the sentiments of individuals? Your Golden Rule example was formed on the basis of it being common throughout the world. That's not objectivity or "greater than people." It's just a trend in human behavior.
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Char works better as a deuteragonist than a primary protagonist, because Char's character is more clearly defined than Amuro's. Amuro works better as a protagonist because his story is less tragic and more relatable, having been thrust into the middle of the conflict, much like how the audience is thrust into the series. Char is an interesting character that serves as a foil for Amuro, but Amuro is the better protagonist because he provides the audience with a more stable starting point with which to engage the series in.
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>Thread turns into argument about Randian philosophy
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>>12190733
Taking over the world implies having to actually rule and manage it afterwards, which would be exremely hard, tiring, boring and risky since ragtag resistances will pop up everywhere out to cut your despotic head off.
It's just not worth the hassle.
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>>12188953
>and slowly wins them over over the course of the show.

Oh, if only this has happened.
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>>12190955

*had
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>>12190919

who let the Randroids in

this is /m/, these are not the 'droids we're looking for
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>>12186884
Char is the protagonist of Gundam.
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>>12190919
Blame it on the misfortune of that Anon's understanding of objectivity.
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>>12190753

No, the Golden Rule is at it's root the basis for a pack based lifeform, a social life form such as man to function properly.
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>>12186884
Char is such a shit character.

They should have made an Amuro The Origin story, instead. With daily life and SoL shenanigans of Amuro and friends in the colony.
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>>12186884

Char is a very interesting antagonist. Amuro is a very interesting protagonist.

Code Geass is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen.

Don't ever mention Char and Code Geass in the same post again or /m/ will carpet bomb your house.
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>>12190919
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>>12195923
>Code Geass is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen.
I'd assume it you haven't seen Victory Gundam, among other things.

>Don't ever mention Char and Code Geass in the same post again or /m/ will carpet bomb your house.
Quite an irrational and senseless reaction. You remind me of Islamic terrorists who claim to speak on behalf of all Muslims.
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>why is Amuro the protagonist
In an anime about giant mechs and war where both sides do really shitty things I am pretty sure you can use your own discretion to pick who the good guys are
Haman is my favorite protagonist from gundam series
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>>12196790
Please ignore this jackass. He's a blind Geass fanboy who will defend every aspect of it.
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>>12187101
No wonder its so fucking shit.
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>>12196790

Victory is one of the best Gundam series of all time.

>Lol Geass

What are you 12?
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>>12196923
Victory was shit plot wise and character wise, but the fights are good. Code Geass is good plot wise character wise and fight wise.
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>>12196943
>Code Geass is good plot wise character wise and fight wise.
Top fucking kek
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>>12187145
>Char
>Good pilot
He's on par with 16-year olds.
>>
Char can't be the protagonist because he did almost everything wrong.
The only good thing he did in 40+ episodes of MSG was killing Kycilia.
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>>12197000
After Origin even this would be questionable.
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>>12196968
Those 16-year olds are kicking butts of much older pilots and Char has nice surviving skills.
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>>12196943

>Wise, wise, wise

Yeah you are a little kid so while it makes sense you would like Geass don't pretend you have seen Victory or claim Victory has a bad plots or characters because that is simply untrue.

Enjoy your derivative, pizza hut commercial animes.
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>>12186884

So you want the antagonist to be some kid with a dad who abandoned him and who got forcefully drafted into the war? And the protagonist to be hunting and trying to kill the kid because he failed to kill the kid on their first meeting?

Are you trying to make this that Sniper movie in space?
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>>12197192
Victory kills people off too fast without giving you time to get involved with the characters. Some of the other gundams are sadder and that is because you are invested in the characters. Code Geass is the same length as victory and most of them don't die until the end. They have personal struggles and develop in their own ways. The strategies are also amazing, Chronicle or the guillotine lady may be smart but neither would out plan Lelouch.
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>>12197144
Too bad being able to hit shit matters too.
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>>12197201

Not the original anon but are you seriously trying to convince /m/ that Code Geass isn't shit?

>Claiming Victory was shit

WTF go back to /a/
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>>12187110
Also don't forget how obsessed is with Amuro
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>>12187145
>A great leader

He's really not, though.
He takes leadership of the AEUG only after being guilted into it by a few people, and this after actively avoiding the position for several years.
In Neo-Zeon, as far as we can see in CCA, he's treated as more of a faceman for the leadership.

He sits in on the meetings, but it's other people handling the actual political dealings. Char just puts on the costume and does the dance for the people. He even spells it out after the Sweetwater speech when he says he feels like a clown.

He's less a great leader and more a begrudging political mascot care of his lineage and war record.
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>>12197192
Victory is pretty stupid, man. Even Tomino doesn't like it. You may love or hate Code Geass but that doesn't make Victory somehow some sort of masterpiece. I guess you think the deaths were touching instead of hilarious and the bikini squad was scary.
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>>12186884
The Origin OAV is already proving that's a great idea since Char is effectively the main character of the flashback era, at least until Amuro's story restarts in earnest . It also makes the parallels with Lelouch from Code Geass more obvious when you see how he was as a child and later teenager. Of course, that goes both for their interestingtraits and all the things they did wrong. Char could have reconciled with Amuro and let go of his hatred, but he didn't until it was too late.
>>
Even Japanese girls agree Char is the better husbando
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>>12188953
Kamille starts as unintentionally hilarious then gets really fucking irritating for the whole show save for a few sparse moments where she doesn't seem to have a broom up his ass. And then he goes in holier than thou mode. And after that Karma plays its role.
>>
TODAY I WILL REMIND THEM

CHAR WAS ALWAYS RIGHT

HUMANS COULD BE IMMORTAL PSYCHIC GODS IF AMURO WOULD HAVE JUST LET CHAR DROP AXIS

GRAVITY CONFIRMED FOR BEING CHAINS FOR YOUR SOUL
>>
>>12190955
>>12199388
I like Kamille and his character arc.

I don't really understand how he was "holier than thou" either.
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>>12199427
>I like Kamille and his character arc.
Omedetou. Are you trying to say that just because you did everyone else also did?

>I don't really understand how he was "holier than thou"
The part where he goes "you're a terrible person for killing people, you deserve to fucking die" is a good example of that. I'd also say he showed bipolar traits when he (tried to) interact with Haman.
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>>12190591
Yeah too bad the average retard either completely fails to get that or is in complete denial mode. This is true everyfuckingwhere, not just /m/, not just on the internet.
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>>12199445
>Are you trying to say that just because you did everyone else also did?
No? Reading comprehension: fun for the whole family.

>The part where he goes "you're a terrible person for killing people you deserve to fucking die"
Yeah, seems like a natural reaction to warmongering tyrants to me.
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>>12199426
HUNGRY SKELLINGTONS GO HOME.
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>>12199509
Oh I see where you want to go and I sure as fuck don't want to play that game.
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>>12199548
Uh huh.
>>
Dull, blank slate characters are easier for 14 year old boys to relate to.
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>11 years old
>has no military training
>has never been inside a cockpit before, let alone piloted a mobile suit
>fights against soldiers in the military in 4 guntanks
>mops the floor with each one of them.

So did they know that Artesia and Casval were in the Guntank or am I to believe that the Federation are full of scrub pilots?
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>>12195940
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>>12202879
11 year old Char as more KO's in a Guntank than Hayato has had in his entire life.
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>>12202879
Were you not paying attention? They paniced, they weren't expecting to fight and having an ally blow up in their faces scrambled their brains. They weren't even fighting most of the time.
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>>12198194
>In Neo-Zeon, as far as we can see in CCA, he's treated as more of a faceman for the leadership.
Dunno, it's made pretty clear that it was Char who came up with the whole Axis drop thingy. Maybe the old Zeon bigwigs sought him out at first because they wanted him to be the face, but in the end it seems that he DID hold the wheel.
>>
>>12187117

> it was simply using Char to fill the same role a bunch of other masked men or technically evil yet somehow oddly sympathetic villains had already played in other robot shows

I get the impression that Char ultimately benefited from Gundam being cancelled.
>>
>>12208422
More like Gundam benefited from Char's backstory getting canceled.
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>>12207215

To force Amuro.

"Neo Zeon, and defeating Amuro."

He didn't care about them in that order. By the time of CCA, Char wants to beat Amuro in a fair fight or be killed by him. So he gave him a psychoframe equipped suit, and led Neo Zeon on a campaign that would force Amuro to fight him without holding back.
>>
>>12202879

It's post-Mobile Suit Gundam anon.
Of course the Federation pilots all have to be drooling retards that can't pilot worth a shit.

And honestly, that was the only thing that I really didn't like about that OVA.
I was really enjoying it a lot because everything was right, and then that shitty mary sue scene comes up.
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>>12199445
>The part where he goes "you're a terrible person for killing people, you deserve to fucking die" is a good example of that.

Maybe because people like Scirocco and Yazan *were* terrible people?
This would be like complaining that Amuro tought the Zabi needed to die in the final episodes of MSG.
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>>12208673
But they weren't. Scirocco wasn't nearly as bad as any of the Zabis and Yazan was just very pragmatic.
>>
>>12208795
>But they weren't.
Oh boy.
>>
>all that whining we are going to hear when Amuro comes in and takes his rightful place as the MC
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>>12211058
>all these secondary subhumans getting butthurt at spoilers
>>
>>12188067

It could be set before the colonial era you know? Before the UC calendar is established. After the fall of the Britannia Empire. Heck, it even gives "Operation British" a new meaning.

Suzaku, now an old man or his descendants could have created the Earth Federation. Until it was stained by greed and right-wing conservatives.
>>
>>12211964

'Kururugi' must have done a lot to become 'Marcenas'.
>>
>>12190630

And it was boring as fuck. Sauron is boring as fuck.
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>>12190693

Congratulations! You get it.
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>>12211971

Unh, it wasn't a bloodline thing, retarded.

Democracy is not defined by blood.

Marcenas was the one announcing the beginning of the Universal Century. Who knows how many years it was in the future? Suzaku could have been dead for more than 100 years before that.

As I said, you seem to be on the wrong impression that it would be an "empire".
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>>12190793
>Have you actually read The Fountainhead?

pfffff hahahahahahaha what a piece of shit, ayn rand was a drug addicted old biddy
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>>12198010

Why is Code Geass shit again? Because it's popular?

I mean I like Victory Gundam too. But really?

Do we just hate popular shows or something?

Code Geass is pretty fucking great.

Let me guess, if it was renamed Gundam Geass, and Lelouch instead of having a Geass, was a newtype, it would be perfect right?

Fucking /m/ bandwagon faggots.
>>
>>12212006

>it wasn't a bloodline thing

>his descendants

Fucking idiot, read what you type.
>>
>>12212046

Fucking retarded, learn some comprehension.

Yes, it could be him and his descendants. THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE WILL BUILD A GODDAMN EMPIRE WITH ONLY HIS LINEAGE ALLOWED TO GOVERN YOU PIECE OF SHIT

Can't believe I had to actually, spell it out.

Do you want me to explain anything else? Dumb piece of shit means that you are a fucking imbecile if you didn't catch on that, btw.
>>
>>12212056
Not even the person you are responding to but holy shit calm down dude.
>>
>>12212056

>THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE WILL BUILD A GODDAMN EMPIRE WITH ONLY HIS LINEAGE ALLOWED TO GOVERN YOU PIECE OF SHIT

>Suzaku, now an old man or his descendants could have created the Earth Federation.

So, regardless of the definition of 'empire' or not, which I did not enforce, it's totally not a 'bloodline', generational thing that his hypothetical descendants worked towards and finalized the creation of the Federation.

Good thing Unicorn pisses all over your stupid headcanon.
>>
>>12190685
pls b in london
Thread posts: 137
Thread images: 14


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