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Can we all agree this two Kamen Rider Series are still the best

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Can we all agree this two Kamen Rider Series are still the best ones so far?
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But that's not Den-O.

I'm still waiting for that guy to resume subbing Bureido, these raws aren't going to sub themselves.
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>>10879217
No. Ryuki is better than Blade.
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>>10879217

I respect your Agito-Blade combo but raise you a Kuuga-Ryuki combo.
>>
add W and Kuuga and you're right

Gaim is up there too but i'll wait till its finished to say its one of the best
>>
KABUTO IS NUMBAH JUAN
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>>10879217
Blade is top tier. Though I'd add the original Kamen Rider and X along it.

I havent seen Agito though. Is it good for someone that hates Inoue?
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>>10879455
Yeah, it doesn't have a lot of the regular fallings associated with Inoue for the most part.
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>>10879471
And does it have actual fights unlike Kuuga?
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Gaim obv
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>>10879263
No, it isn't.
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>>10879455
It's been a long time since I gave it a good watch, but I liked it a lot more than Faiz and Kiva which I watched before Agito. A lot of his issues were still there: misunderstandings. douchebag, rivers, weird shit for no reason, etc. Misunderstandings are nowhere as bad as Faiz. It can be frustrating but feels more natural than Faiz or Kiva. Opinions on the douchebag in this show is a a bit split. Again still better than his later shows. Not perfect, but I still think it's one of the better shows of the franchise.
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>>10879263
Ryuki is good but it has more flaws than Blade.
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>>10879485
thanks for the input. I'm planing to start Agito as soon as I end Magiranger.
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>>10879455
Agito is Inoue unarguably at his best. Compared to Kuuga, Agito is a lot more drama heavy and works with more tense pacing.

But while its also similar in other respects to Kuuga, its very different. It has a larger cast, there are several sub-plots that revolve around more mystery/thriller/horror elements.

Mana's quest to learn about Shouichi's amnesia and her father's murder, the background with the Akatsuki-gou Incident, and so on.

I honestly prefer Agito to Kuuga but some people I know also can't get into Agito because its far too much on introspection and exposition then actual action.
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>>10879485
Misunderstandings made sense in Agito because the cops didn't know if Agito was similar to the Grongi, Another Agito was trying to kill everyone at first, and Gills was a berserker.

Plus they didn't even learn each other's identities till midway into the series. And then it stopped.
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>>10879475
It's a lot flashier than Kuuga, at the very least, and the fights are more impressive. I'd say Agito is really when "modern Kamen Rider" really starts style-wise. Kuuga's just so different from most everything after it, but Agito's more in-line with what you expect from the Heisei shows.
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>>10879217
no W, your opinion is invalid
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>>10879529
How is Agito flashy compared to Kuuga? As an Agitofag I'd like to hear your reasoning for this. Do you just mean the way Shouichi and others fight?

Or with the special and technical effects? Because they used CGI a lot because the budget in Agito was miniscule compared to Kuuga's.
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>>10879475
>And does it have actual fights unlike Kuuga

You lost me. Maybe I'm blinded by my love for the show, but I've never heard one of it's faults being its choreography for fights.

Not trying to start shit, just curious about another opinion.
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>>10879455
I would certainly recommend Agito. I haven't fully watched any other Inoue series (waiting on good subs for Faiz after watching roughly a third of it, and gave up on Kiva halfway through), but it stands quite strong by itself. A very well-balanced show IMO, and the ending is most certainly worth it.

>>10879485
Honestly, I feel that the misunderstandings and douchebags are at their minimum in Agito. It still happens, but you don't tear your hair out about it. And he only used rivers, what, 3-4 times overall?

>>10879529
Personally I feel that Den-O is where "modern" really begins. It's the one place where you can definitively drive a wedge in Heisei Rider shows and say that this is where the change started.
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Agito's ending was both confusing and unsatisfying.

Also something about another one of the Akatsuki girls turning into an Agito too, did it just not happen or what?

Also, all those scenes from both of the intros? They never happen.
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quick Q
are the battride war games any fun?
i've seen gameplay and i like musou games, but im new to rider shit. i'm just looking for something to import.
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>>10879556
Shouichi's older sister was the first Agito, because of shenanigans involving the Overlord of Light.

The only other girl that becomes an Agito is another person with psychic potential who Shouichi meets from the cafe in the final arc. Only problem with the ending I had was Ryu getting a puppy after both his girlfriends are killed in the series, first Aki then the cool biker punk chick.
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I like OOO and W.
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Kuuga and Agito were full of so much death.

No, seriously.

SO MUCH DEATH.
>>
My favourite still remains the first Kamen Rider.
Best Rider
Best bike
Best MC
Best sensei
Best design
It was the perfect level of camp and fun.
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>>10879548
I finished recently and there were barely any fights. Sorry to dissapoint you but most fights are Kuuga wining with one hit, and the ones that wasnt werent very long, or had retarded shit like Kuuga crashing the Grongi with Gouram. The last fight was awesome in a dramatic way, but not in an action way. I honestly think Ichijo is the most badass character of the show.
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>>10879535
I don't mean it in a bad way. It just has a lot more style than Kuuga. Much better special effects, the fights are more over-the-top, and although I didn't mean this when I used the word, it's a lot more colorful than Kuuga tonally. You also have the usage of insert themes and whatnot for battles.

And that's all stuff I actually like more about Agito, even though I prefer Kuuga.

>>10879552
Maybe "modern" was the wrong word. I recognize that there's a big divergence when Den-O began (even though W is the earliest of that era I've watched). Agito just seemed to be the basis in terms of basic structure that a lot of shows following stuck to fairly closely. Kuuga arguably introduced more of the things that became common, but Agito refined them in a package that's a lot closer.

I feel like Agito is just kind of the most Kamen Rider-y Heisei Kamen Rider show, if that makes sense.
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>>10879589
Oh I'm not disappointed man, I mean I can accept the faults of a series I like.

Thinking about it I am a bit hazey on the fights. Some stand out pretty vividly though, Titan form introduction, the Rising Titan battle with the Grongi with the sword, the bike fight with Go-Bada-Ba, and of course the beatdown on Porcupine.

I guess the lack of drawn out brawls never detracted for me too much, since I loved all character interaction stuff.

Also I can agree, Ichijou was a boss, definitely my favorite non-full time rider character in a series, close runners up being Gorou and Ankh.
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>>10879612
>I guess the lack of drawn out brawls never detracted for me too much, since I loved all character interaction stuff.

Yeah, the show is brilliant at writing. It's the most realistic take on the super hero genre I've ever seen (and I've seen much of the shit that try to do that). The short fights are its only flaw.
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>>10879612
Ozawa was great too.
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>>10879580
Pretty sure people died regularly in every Rider up until Den-O (which had a total body count of about 2). I guess you could say that Kiva and Dickeido also qualify though.
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>>10879633
Speaking of another of Den-O's flaw, Kai is easily the worst, mishandled, and awful implemented big bad in Heisei Kamen Rider.
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>>10879633
this tells me you didn't see Kuuga.

Kuuga's death count was WAY up in the thousands by the end.
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>>10879633
Kiva often had Wataru arriving just after some random background people were killed.

Decade had quite a deaths in some arcs, although others were mostly clean.
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>>10879639
It felt like half of Japan had died by the time Kuuga's plot finished.
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>>10879648
I think Agito was just as bad. One of the first flying/speedster Unknowns killed hundreds of people in different cities in mere minutes for a couple days.
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Agito is pretty much a masterpiece compared to even the best rider series.
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>>10879217
Are you me?

Agito and Blade are both my absolute favorite Heisei shows.
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>>10879217

Nope. Gaim is the only good Kamen Rider series so far.
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>>10879684
>Muh Urobuchi
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>>10879684
Hey now, I'm new to Kamen Rider but even I know that's bullshit. I've only watched OOO, Fourze and Gaim (currently watching W) and they were all good, so obviously Gaim is far from being the only good series.
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>>10879272

>W
>Kuuga
>good

Mediocre and boring are the right words.
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>>10879684
>mfw there will be many people like this after Gaim ends

disgusting

I really don't want Gaim to get a terrible reputation on here due to these people cause Gaim is a really great show.
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>>10879702

They're enjoyable, but Gaim is much better.
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>>10879711

It hurts because it's true. Gaim is the Shin Mazinger of Kamen Rider. Everything else pales in comparison..
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>>10879713
>>10879722
Heh, these guys are right. Nothing has or will top Gaim in terms of Kamen Rider. You guys can all say there are other series that are good but heh, they are just good as Kamen Rider series. Gaim is something I could recommend to anyone remotely into Japanese media as it's an all around good show, not just a good Kamen Rider series. Heh, you guys.
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>>10879725
>>10879722
>>10879713
>>
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>>10879684
>>
IMO Blade wasn't that great besides the MC almost all other characters were shit. And as a whole was really badly executed. No where near top 5 material let alone placing near Agito.
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>>10879705

cmon b8 u can do better
>>
So where is Fourze and Wizard in this?

Haven't watched many series, and I don't know the Tier List.
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>>10882934
Oh, and I liked Wizard
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Ive watched Black Fully and Started Gaim's first 2 episodes.. Such a big difference. Does Gaim get any better? Not really too crazy about it so far but im a patient person
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>>10883074
It starts slow and playful, but it picks up steam as Kouta mans up. I'd say keep at it at least until Oren shows up.
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>>10883146
Oh i will for sure. Black kindled my love for kamen rider . So i'll give gaim alot of leeway
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>>10879217
If Blade is soo good then why only TV-N has subbed it huh?
i actually want to watch blade but you faggots keep saying that TV-N changed the plot with their translation so now i have conflicted feelings fuck you
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Kamen Rider Shunpei is the best in my opinion. There's just so much more room for character development.
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>>10883344
I'm actually downloading blade right now. TV-N of course. I think I'm starting to feel conflicted if that is true.
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>>10879217
Swap Agito with Kuuga and we have a deal.
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>>10883458
Of course there'll be room if the character is empty to begin with
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>>10883344
I've always been wondering about this shitty paradox, but I guess the hate for TV-N is so strong that no one is willing to address the issue
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>>10879217
Out of all the Heisei shows I've seen so far, Blade has the ending that best captures the overall theme of Kamen Rider as a franchise.

Agito was really really good but the ending was a little unsatisfying, and the theme was pretty generic "good vs evil," even for tokusatsu, although I'll admit it had a little bit of a twist.
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>>10883344
Beggars can't be choosers. Watch theirs or learn how to speak moon.
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>>10879556
That's probably my biggest problem with Agito: the ending. Everything else about the series is really good to me- save for the mishandling of power-ups, but just look at Faiz and how poorly they're handled there- but that last stretch just really killed it for me with the sudden and 100% unnecessary introduction of two new romance subplots in the last few episodes that one of only served to turn Ryo into a joke and how absolutely preachy and hamhanded the religious overtones got ["WOAH, THOSE STARS IN THE SKY ARE TURNING INTO A CROSS I WONDER WHY"]. Inoue doesn't do endings well and Agito's no exception. If I were to nitpick further I'd mention that having Hikawa boarding that plane in one episode just to have him unceremoniously turn around and come back at the start of the next was kind of lame when marathoning it, but that's not really a big deal.

At the end of the day, though, Agito is still very much an Inoue show and is in no way perfect, just like all of his other shows. It's totally cool if Agito is your favorite and no-one should argue with you saying so, but it's a stretch to call anything "perfect" ever.
>>
Kuuga > Double > Original > Agito > Black
>>
Agito-Fourze was my combo for a while but I have a feeling that Gaim is gonna take over the latter's spot.
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>>10879436
He may be Number One, but I am Super-1!
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>>10883260
What that guy said. Gaim is intentionally slow at the start of the series.
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>>10883791
The Overlord is God, so why the fuck are you surprised at about religious overtones you moron?
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>>10879217
No way.

My issue with Agito is that the first 10-20 episodes were so tense and serious that when the inevitable goofy silly arc came before the conclusion it really painfully jarring.

I really ended up not liking Agito, Souichi was no where near as endearing as Godai. I will admit the Finale was very good.
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>>10886001
Shouichi is a Godai with proper character development so I'd say your opinion is pretty worthless.
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>>10886001
>Shouichi was no where near as endearing as Godai
you've gotta be kidding me
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>>10879725

I agreed, I tried getting into Black and OOO, but after watching Gaim I feel like I'm going to have a hard time watching the other " good " series, Gaim is that fucking good.
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>>10888171
>
You are exaggerating.
>>
>>10888177

> Subjective
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>>10879217
I like Gaim, OOO, and Black all more. Those are cool too though.
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>>10888194
Gaim is not "objectively" the best Kamen Rider, so on that there is no subjectivity.
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Honestly, if they hadn't switched writers it'd probably be the best one.
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>>10888316
Still doubtful.

Would've been a great Toku series if it wasn't for the Kamen Rider titling.
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On the subject of Blade, has anyone heard from NDAnon lately?
He should be out of college for the summer now, shouldn't he?
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>>10879638
Den-O should have never tried to "end." By which I mean that they shouldn't have tried to wrap everything up in a bow with a final big bad and the end of all Imagin. The movies pretty much ignore it, and the structure of Den-O before that was like Hibiki, where it never really needed to have an ending. And with the movies, the climax really did never end.

Instead, Kai should have been a more personal villain. Tie him into the Zeronos plot or something, with Ryotaro as the wild card that prevents Yuuto and all of time from being completely destroyed by Kai's plans. Then just have the Den-Liner crew continue to fight new Imagin threats and protect time forever more for the ending.
>>
>>10879639
>Pretty sure people died regularly in every Rider up until Den-O

That includes everything from Kuuga to Kabuto, you idiot
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>>10883344
It's genuinely better than the HKs. You'll understand the most part of the show, they only screwed up some details.

Also, zetsubou doesn't mean acute.
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>>10885810
>yfw Demushu was the Overlord in Agito
>yfw Kiwami Arms is infinitely stronger than Agito Shining
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>>10888331
What makes Gaim or Kiva any more Kamen Rider than first-half Hibiki, besides the bike usage?
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>>10890632
Hibiki wasn't meant to be Kamen Rider originally, it was gonna be original Toku. It's why none of the designs have large eyes and he doesn't use a belt to transform.
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>>10890639
Fuck you.
>>
>>10890639
Everyone knows that, the question is what -actually- makes the show any less Kamen Rider than Gaim or Kiva, or even Wizard. You can't say it's because there's no bug eyes or a bike when we just had an eyeless wonder for a main suit and Kamen Runner Beast.
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>>10890632
Gaim has the whole "using power source of the enemy to fight back" thing. In Kiva's case, Wataru even is a half-Fangire. Then, there's the belts, Rider Kick finishers (although those are secondary in Gaim). As far as design goes, Gaim doesn't have bug eyes, but does have the crusher jaw.

There's the whole "evil organization" thing too for Gaim, although Yggdrazil isn't plainly evil, the whole "world population needs to be reduced for the future of mankind" was actually a goal of some late Showa organizations too (Dogma Kingdom).

>>10890769
Beast isn't a main Rider though. Only one Shocker Rider actually had a bike in the original series.

>>10890769
Wizard still had some white lines on his helmet that gave the illusion of eyes though. The only reason those were even there was because it's a Rider.
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>>10879217
Project G4 is an ok movie. Now Missing Ace is shit.
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Not watching either series helps, but I can never remember which one is Kuuga and which one is Agito.
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>>10894132
One has red chest, the other has gold chest
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>>10879217
Kamen Rider was never good.
>>
Kuuga's pacing is fairly slow, but getting through it is definitely worthwhile.
Agito definitely brings a lot more of the modern Heisei styles but still keeps Kuuga's brutality, and yes lots of drama.
Ryuki wasn't bad, and the last fights were sublime.
Faiz just pisses me right off. The miscommunication is just so ridiculous I can't even fathom it actually existing.
Blade starts off ridiculously slow, but when the plot hits, it hits hard and it's great.
I was never able to get through Hibiki, maybe if I watch it without thinking of it as a Rider show I can do it. I do understand that the character depth is really great until the big change in story development ruins everything, though.
Kabuto is another example of Toei not knowing what to do with an anniversary series. Pretty bland, but still entertaining. Kinda like mindlessly eating a bag of tortilla chips without salsa.
Den-O used to be the show I would introduce people on. Loved the character interactions and base humor. It started to get old quick, though. And the plot was nonexistent for so long I don't even remember what the actual plot was.
Kiva... I just can't put much stock in a hero who tries to self abort because his waifu died. And then his complete 180 of becoming "king" was just... nah. Love the aesthetics, loved Otoya and Nago... in fact the show should've just been about the IXA line.
Decade is another example of Toei not knowing what to do with an anniversary series. Pretty bland, but still entertaining. Kinda like mindlessly eating a bag of tortilla chips without salsa.
W was my favorite, and still holds its place in my top tier of Rider shows. Any show that can make me cry manly tears is worth it.
OOO suffered from characters not really growing on me until about mid series. Date and Doctor Maki fixed everything, though.
Fourze... wasn't terrible, but I felt like after a while they really didn't know what to do with the Horoscopes and just kinda rushed that final arc.
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>>10894724
cont.
Wizard was fun for me because I liked the aesthetics and the characters, even though I can definitely say they needed a lot more development. Also gets props for having the first in-series lady Rider who didn't die. Though Shuki from Hibiki definitely deserved what she got.
I will reserve final judgment on Gaim upon its finale. But there's a reason W WAS my favorite.
>>
>>10894724
But in Faiz, everyone has autism. That's why Takumi can't talk about his problems.
>>
>>10898649

No, in Faiz everyone is just being Japanese.
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>>10894724
>Kabuto
>pretty bland
A lot of things can be said of Kabuto, bland is not one of them.
>>
>>10879436
>>10885131
gentlemen, please
>>
Gaim is the best. No contest here.
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