Never before has one video summed up our times

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He's crying over a vacuous medium; who gives a fuck? The medium's shit, and still it left him behind. How pathetic.
Hayao Miyazaki should either go back to making oscar bait dumb dumb style-over-substance kids movies, or commit suicide.

>>8826396
Stupid weebs. You'll never understand anything from the real world. Back to /a/ with you.

>>8826380
This is the literature board though.

>>8826380

>loses faith in humanity from a tech demo

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The real life version of this scene from Westworld.

>>8826380
as someone who is an ai programmer, i have to say, he has a point. we are losing faith in ourselves.

>>8826446
That was the most interesting thing he said in that video. Humans build systems because they lack integrity and eventually become dependent on them. Because we no longer can handle certain responsibilities, we want them to be automated.

But of course, when we allow new systems to take care of things for us, it lets us focus on other things we couldn't focus on before, which is a good thing. As an old man it might be harder for him to see that, which is natural.

>>8826396
the real problem with society is highlighted exactly in this post (and I imagine replies to mine). What we lost, when we opted to let mathematics take a front seat in our societies, is not our humanity per se, but our ability to rationalize in a truly nuanced way, other people's arguments. To make our own arguments too.

Instead of really taking into account and approaching Miyazaki's argument and trying to understand its nuances and implications this poster starts off his reply with an oversimplification, a judgement and a reductionist perspective. These are all qualities that might be useful in tackling a mathematical equation but perhaps not with a "real life" (i put that in quotations deliberately) example.

For example in mathematics if we can prove that collary B of an argument or generalization A is incorrect then we can completely discredit generalization A, But this is not how things work when...for example having a convesation or argument about human lives.

For example if I prove that killing a person in one example is justified I cannot come to the conclusion that the statement "killing is wrong" is objectively incorrect. It's more nuanced than that. That's what we've lost and continue to lose. It's our ability to communicate.

pfft what a retard

>>8826380
them young chinese fellas need to watchtheir carb intake

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>>8826380
>All those buttblasted comments

>>8826477
What's more is that in analyzing an argument, we often take it for granted that if a certain PART of an argument is invalid then the entire argument is invalid. But this is not true necessarily. Just because one part of an argument is untrue does not invalidate the implications and consequences proposed by entire argument like in mathematics.

Just because, for example, I disagree with Miyazaki for one part of his argument (lets say for example, that animators are causing people to lose faith or something i dunno) does not mean that I disagree with his entire argument. Or that I ought to.

>>8826380
His entire argument is based around a disable person having to walk weird being similar to a zombie crawling on the ground by contorting its body and using its head as an extra leg.

I dunno, man. That seems kind of retarded.

>>8826572
No, that's not his entire argument, moron. He's saying he finds it offensive and a mockery of life. He uses the anecdote as an example.

>>8826380
Maybe it's complete nonsense, but I really like the 'sagely old guy man dropping some serious oriental wisdon' aesthetic he has going on

>>8826572
It's not an argument. He's describing how he FEELS about the program.

>People spend countless hours creating new yet impractical technology to product art while Miyazaki breathes new life into his medium everytime he creates a new movie
I'll take a master of an old but proven technology over mathematician gooks developing new and pointless technology any day.

>>8826982
this

>>8826982
yeah i just don't see the point of art unless it was made by a human being.

i guess in the longrun this could be good for soulsucking creative jobs like birthday cards, commercials, graphic design etc, which would free up the artists stuck making those things as a backup plan to work on projects they actually actually care about.

>>8826635

Describing how you feel about something, using an example from your personal life, and then presenting same to a group, is an argument. Now, it may not be the most /rigorous/ argument from a logical point of view, but it can nevertheless be a very compelling argument when done properly. It helps if you're some old venerable anime fuck with all kinds of cultural cred, that nobody wants to get on the wrong side of, yet he chooses to dismiss you or fuck with your because he doesn't like your zombies. This is called rhetoric. It is a valid form of argumentation exactly because it succeeds to persuade others.

Rhetoric entails both components of reason and of emotion, which are the elements which persuade other human beings. For you to totally dismiss one or the other of these facets of rhetoric is for you demonstrate that you yourself do not understand how argumentation, debate and rhetoric, as they have always been practiced among human beings, actually works.

Now, to pivot onto something else.

For the record, I am not siding with Miyazaki. I instead think it very disingenuous and stupid on his part that his movies have included so many novel, strange, weird movements, /which are obviously intended to evoke the whole range of human emotions and reactions including the creepy side of things in order to produce a meaningful work of art, yet he looks at this test sample and excoriates it to the face of the creators, and then he gets to sit there like a smug shit because he's Miyazaki with the same glasses forever and the coiffed beard. Fuck you. You, Miyazaki, have had artistic occasion to call upon exactly these same types of creepiness. They ought to have pointed that out to him, and put him in his place, but no, he's Walt fucking Disney and you don't put Walt Disney in his place. They should have. If just one of them had had just a little alpha game, somewhere deep down inside, they might have managed it. I could see that they were understandably visibly upset, and /did/ want to tell this old fuck to fuck himself. But no one had the stones.

I am happy for them that they made their creepy abomination. Good for them.

>>8826635
go to bed stefan

>>8826999
>>8827016
The same thing is happening with video games. People are praising VR like it's the second coming of Christ because they're desperate for innovation and "muh immersion", yet some of the most immersive games I've played are purely ASCII. Just more corporations selling consumers on things they don't need and calling it "necessary technical innovation".

>>8827047
it's like motion control a few years ago

>>8826446
Yea I'm starting to feel the same way as a person in the STEM field. I was having a conversation with a biology student and he said that love doesn't exist and it is just a series of neurons firing or something along those lines (I know little of biology). It bothered me.

>>8827061
Even that was better. It was cheap so it could appeal to non-gamers. Now Kike Fuckerburg want's every American to sit in virtual stadiums for streaming events, and charge people more for better virtual seats.

>>8826380
Miyazaki's there because they said this inhuman computer animation would be perfect for his upcoming movie about a caterpillar. I feel bad for the dudes getting ripped on by someone they probably idolise.

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>>8826380
They are wise men. Miyazaki is very correct.

Even if his statement "we are reaching the end of times" is not correct literally (as in the world ending), it is correct because life as we know it is very rapidly approaching an end.

I have seen it for a while too, and it terrifies me. What I believe to be coming ever closer is both scary and disgusting to me. If people in the future know of these days and understand, they will long for them.

I am scared for humanity. I am scared that we are becoming less human.

>>8827081
I did feel bad about that as well. They seemed very upset by what he said, and I imagine they were disappointed. But he was still right.

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>>8827079
Princess Kaguya was a tremendous achievement, but gimme that simple Miyazaki magical children's stuff any day.

>>8827071
Love exists and it is a connection of neurons. Ideas exist and they are connections of neurons. Beauty is not harmed through explanation.

>>8827120
May be so, but the way this person described it bothered me. As if it were some meaningless side effect the brain produces.

>>8826380
Holy shit those guys got roasted. Miyazaki is the master of IRL shitposting.

>>8826396
>Hayao Miyazaki should either go back to making oscar bait dumb dumb style-over-substance kids movies, or commit suicide.
you got shit on for this post (kind of?) but its 100% accurate

Miyazaki is fucking crap, his movies are all the same self-insert boring faggot with the same strong girl and some cheap conflict caused by greed and resolved in a stupid and juvenile way. He is even worse than the ones he criticise because he actually takes himself serious.

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>>8827151
>>8827163
KYS/CS

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>>8827163
he's truly just some passive-aggressive pacifist faggot. he's honestly probably a green anarchist and unironic social justice warrior. someone should have clocked him when he was a kid, he might not have turned out to be such an insufferable pussy.

Grave of the Fireflies was some of the most embarrassing and trite shit ive seen.

>>8827024
You lost this argument the moment you posted this wall of text.

>>8827138
Yeah it bothered me a some point to but their is beauty in it too. Everything is made of something. Love is real like rocks or weather and it all interacts with no self imposed distinction.

>>8827187
Oh god my spelling.

>>8827183
And that's called rhetoric.

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there is beauty to be found in algorithms too. look at the procedurally generated caves in minecraft. they can be just another tool for the animator to use.

>>8827183
ladies and gentlemen, the death of intellectualism.

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>all these edgelord tryhards itt

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>>8827201
>ladies and gentlemen, the death of intellectualism.

tfw to intelligent to read some autistic rant

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>>8827024
If you read the article in the video description, it has a better translation and he outright says "The people who make this are probably doing it without being considerate of things like pain. This is extremely unpleasant." He brings up his disabled friend because he's trying to make a point that his friend makes awkward, stilted movements, but he's still a person who experiences pain, both physical and emotional.

He's not bitching because it's creepy and they're aping his shtick, but because he feels it's cheap and disrespectful to living things. The man shits out vibrant settings, and his creepy characters are designed to be sympathetic and pained in addition to being creepy. A twitchy thing that drags itself across the ground and doesn't feel pain is an insult because of how thoughtless it is, it's just grotesque for the sake of grotesque, and he has no desire to be involved with such a thing.

Basically, Miyazaki's mad because their dumb CGI monster violates his character design ethos in a big way.

>>8827201
There was nothing intellectual about that post, just the uncontrolled whining of no one.

>>8827183
I enjoyed reading his argument, though I don't agree with it. I know this is 4chan, but comments like yours are really what's shitting up this website. It's so easy to lay back and just tell people they are stupid without listing any reasons. Why did he lose the argument, pray tell?

>>8827181
Takahata directed that one, mein fuhrer.

Goose step back to pol already

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>>8827254
Let me sing you a song

>On the day that you were born the angels got together.
>And decided to create a piece of shit.
>So, they sprinkled dog crap in your hair of brown,
>And cat crap in your eyes of poo.
>That is why all the girls in town leave when you're around.
>Just like me, they long to be apart from you...

/lit/ - random

>>8827291
my b, but nausicaa wasnt any better, and neither were any of his other films.

my neighbor totoro is probably his best because it doesn't overreach so badly.

literally anime was a mistake

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>>8827291

>>8827335
>CyVR89RUUAAW4Se.jpg

>>8827081
I thought Miyazaki was being way to harsh but the fact that they were proposing it to him makes the entire scene make more sense.

>>8827211
Yeah, but his argument boils down to "you don't know what it's like". I don't disagree with that but that doesn't make him less of a dick for shitting on those guys. They were just doing a presentation for a game or animation, and they got results. You can't live off on empathy alone, at some point you have to break some eggs.

I mean, it's just an old man sad because some animation reminded him of a crippled friend and moaning because things are not what they used to be yadda yadda, should we pretend he's a deep, wise man making a point because he drew some good hentai or something back in the day or should we laugh at him for taking CGI way too seriously like the senile gook he is? I say kill yourselves.

Examining his argument critically, I'm not sure what his point is.

Yes, it must be terrible for his friend to have such limited movement. Zombies are not alive, however. Given the entire concept of a zombie, and the resulting deterioration in the brain/limbs/etc, then it makes sense that they might develop novel - albeit grotesque - means by which to get around and infect/eat others.

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>>8826380

Also, if you wanted one video from this guy to sum up our times, you'd have been better off posting the one where he trashes otaku.

>>8827634
Yeah, right? Like, it's his fault for being friends with a cripple.

Miyazaki is bitter as fuck, a real old pacifist misanthrope. If you manage to piss him off you're probably doing something good.

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>>8826490
>>8826477
Hey man, this post well well written and it helped me understand the video.
Thanks.

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>>8826477
>What we lost
Breh "we" never had what you're descriving to begin with. Math doesn't have anything to do with people being broadsweeping idiots.

i'm sure there are people that would say the same thing about anime

>>8827679
>Old cunt making no sense
>Hey man, this post well well written and it helped me understand the video. Thanks.
Just fuck off, weeb

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>>8826477
>>8826490
in your example of mathematics, you seem to think people judge the "validity" of an instance to disprove the argument itself. in basic sentential logic, there is a huge and significant gap between validity and soundness.

as you must know, if i say:
>if P, then Q
the observable truth of either P or Q only affects the argument's validity in one negative way. neither P nor Q has to be true in order for my assumption to be valid. the only way it can be invalid is if P is true while Q is false.

of course, this evolves into the first-order logic of predicates and quantifiers—upon which almost all of the mathematics you invoke is based. you deride the original poster for oversimplification, but miss the human element of logical reasoning.

and as for proving that killing a person can ever be justified, olde kant would like to have a word.

>>8826477
>>8826477
The lenghts "people" go to defend their anime idols

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>>8827689

>>8827692
I have reaction images from various sources. They just didn't' seem to fit.
Incidentally I hate most anime and manga, but poputepipikku I will enthusiastically defend.

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>>8827695

Just don't kill in-group members without a good reason. Everyone else is fair game.

Humans are an incredibly violent race but every ethnic/tribal/cultural group obeys this principle.

>>8827720
i agree, and i think freud's critique of "universal love" is part of why he's so shittalked in academia today. it's a simplified version of the concept, but he basically said that you only have enough psychic energy (which of course didn't mean new age hokum) to go around, and it's impossible to love everyone. if you do, then it's likely that your object of love is not a human being, but love itself.

that psuedo-christian conception of "universal love" is a legitimate neurosis according to freud. in reality, people benefit from carefully cultivating relationships and prioritizing important ones over bullshit connections with strangers. it's really not what christ was talking about, but of course the message was distorted and subverted over time.

doing as kant says implies that you think everyone else has a basic ability to reason, and so if you don't kill anyone, neither will anyone else. this is obviously fucking stupid—some people have a limited capacity to reason, while others simply don't and will never engage it.

>p.s. verne troyer has a big dick for a midget

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>humanism
He is right in the sense that it's a mockery of life and pain. It's a denial of biology; it's the mechanical mind coldly manipulating flesh and tissue according to its own programmed purposes rather than our own. But I don't see anything egregious about that. Yes it's disturbing, but why is it disturbing? It's disturbing because we have assumptions about the way animals and organisms should move and act, we have assumptions about the value of pain and human consciousness, and to see a representation of ourselves ignore those values, to ignore efficiency and self-preservation and empathy and physiology is both unusual and a bit frightening. AI will not respect humanity. This animation isn't thoughtless at all, I see lots of potential for thought. Yes it can be abused but so can Hitchcock's dolly zoom, like any other artistic technique.

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>>8827745
one of the reasons i thought miyazaki was being a little bitch is that the team was designing the animation for a FUCKING horror game. since miyazaki was unsettled, he then claims that it is wrong against humanity. the whole point of the animation was to unnerve the player because those movements couldn't be imagined by a typical human.

i happen to agree with his overall conclusion that humanity is on a bunk track to a futureless future, but they did their jobs well. why the fuck was he even in the room? what authority did he have to judge these ugly fuckers for meeting their goals? why did he invoke pathos with his gay crippled friend, which is the weakest form of reasoning?

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>>8827720
It's still a bad idea to kill people willy nilly. They might be part of a group and the encounter might give you PTSD. And direct confrontation cn be dangerous.

>>8827737
To treat people equally is to treat them for what they aren't. It's really unfair in a way. You should give and demand a modicum of decency but never assume.

>>8827120
>Love exists and it is a connection of neurons. Ideas exist and they are connections of neurons. Beauty is not harmed through explanation.

The experience itself cannot be reduced to material. Learn philosophy moron.

>>8827760
This.
He is a cranky old man.
They were showing him something a computer had done and he got mad at them for it.
>old miserable fuck kills mailman for delivering bills

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>>8827803
as a neuroscientist, i believe that study of the ancients should be mandatory before a diploma. otherwise, you have a directionless circlejerk over minutiae that really isn't advancing our fields.

>>8826477
>>8827695
>the material conditional is the only one
>muh art vs. science, emotion vs. logic

can non-logicians please stop appropriating our work

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>>8827865
>implying that i confuse the material conditional with the indicative conditional
>implying that i didn't argue for a non-binary view of mathematical logic
>implying that all 777 pages in my copy of GEB are not sticky from years of my collected semen

>>8826380
Miyazaki is wrong here, getting all opinionated about a fucking AI generated animation.

Miyazaki is just a commie SJW that thinks so highly of himself and so low of the medium that he works in.

>>8827024
appreciate the developed post anon- thanks

>>8827873
>implying GEB isn't a pop-science book

>>8827893
>implying i don't pop off a juicy load to it anyways

>>8827692
They seemed like pretty well thought out posts anon - regardless of whether I agree with their content. Reproaching like that isn't aiding the discussion

>>8826477
the sentiment is correct but it'snot mathematics you idiot it's capitalism

>>8828074
No, it's the "STEM is everything and nothing else matters" attitude.

>>8827760
>what authority did he have to judge these ugly fuckers for meeting their goals?
Who tf are you... Demonizing a man for showing compassion in his field of work. Get real.

>>8827686
lmao is that guy cumming?

>>8827893
>>8827865
this

>>8826380
Why are Japanese so fucking beta? kek

Why no one has the balls to say: What the fuck are you talking about your halfman friend?

No wonder why japaneses are C U CKED by Americans.

>>8827071
He probably just quoted Rick and Morty, and you shouldn't listen to him because he is just a fukkin memer

>>8827138
Love is a series of neurons firing, releasing chemicals (oxytocin in particular) to facilitate stronger bonds between partners in times of child rearing. Oxytocin increases the chances that both parents will remain invested in their genetic offspring and thus carry on the genetic lineage that they their whole lives fought to protect and reproduce. Chemicals protecting chemicals protecting chemicals.

Although this is a cynical way to view love, I find that though there may be some scientific explanation behind it, the way humans react to and treat love is what makes it so profound.

>>8828397
someone stop this trans*phobe

>>8826635
i agree with this.

maybe he's also just insecure.

the thing with great, successful people is that they tend to feel like they're excused to be arrogant, which they're not.

>>8826572
I think he was trying to say that by creating this machine entity that doesn't feel pain as a lark they've turned their back on humanity and the real struggle of pain. The story about his friend was just to show them the real life world they've left behind. Read more about Miyazaki and this is a big deal to him, that people are retreating into fantasy and intellectual world's instead of exploring real life. He was disgusted when he found out that not one of the animators that worked for him knew what it looked like when a snake falls out of a tree, or knew what it looks like to force a dog to eat medicine. He had to take them all on a field trip to a farm just so they could see what real animals actually look like.

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>>8826380
He has a point, but these beliefs need to stay in Japan. It's the only place in the world where I personally believe that you can get away with that traditionalist shit. These guys who are presenting this to Miyazaki are complete idiots for wasting their own time, and Studio Ghibli's. He's too much of an over-zealous, ancient fuck to deviate from what he's already doing, and with good reason.

I have never seen a Miyazaki film.

>>8827211
This

>>8827619
But what Miyazaki was most disgusted by was their total lack of introspection or philosophy to their work. He asked them why they were doing what they were doing and they looked like deer in the fucking headlights. One guy mustered up 'make a machine that can draw as well as a human' and you can tell it's probably the first time he's uttered out loud what is the closest thing they have to a fucking principle, mainly because it's retarded. Why? What's the benefit? If he'd thought about it all before that moment he would have had something to say that didn't so transparently need further qualification.
They're just like those engineers making spy tech for the government, so jazzed with their fucking tech and paychecks that they never question the reason that they're doing any of it

>>8828356
>40% of young Japanese men (under 34) are virgins

>>8826477
>For example in mathematics if we can prove that collary B of an argument or generalization A is incorrect then we can completely discredit generalization A

but that's false, you fucking idiot

>>8826423
Hahaha too perfect

>>8826380
Applications of AI in art are more interesting, technically and theoretically, than 99.8% of other contemporary art. Everyone knows this.

>>8827793
We are but vessels for genes, it is in our nature to further our genes and those of our racial kin. Empathy is meant for the ingroup, everything else is an illusion, a genetic missadaptation. Evolutionary success is the only truth.

>>8828485
Being able to solve a complex technical problem can be a motivation by itself.
Why do people make puzzles?

>>8827071

>he said that love doesn't exist and it is just a series of neurons firing or something along those lines

Dude, chairs don't exist, they're just a series of molecules arranged in a certain manner, lmao.

>>8827745
I don't get how it's a mockery of life.
Anyone can give me their input?

damn this thread is nice.

>>8828787
>it is in our nature to further our genes and those of our racial kin
it is in our nature to procreate

>Empathy is meant for the ingroup
mostly yes

>everything else is an illusion, a genetic missadaptation
there are no genetic missadaptations

>Evolutionary success is the only truth
no. survival is

>>8829173
are you a girl by any chance?

>>8829186
no

So... should we invite /a/ to this discussion?

>>8829251
/a/ already weighing in ITT. The first reply was from a weeb.

>>8826408
>This is the literature board though.
It's relevant. What he says applies to much of the YA, power fantasy and etc books that are been released every year

>>8829244
Then fuck me side ways Lad, you're probably gay.
what you doin tonight?

>>8826477
>i've never heard of analytic philosophy in my life

>>8827201
>there is beauty to be found in algorithms too.

Algoritms are beautiful

This thread is fucking ass

sure is /a/ shitters in here

>>8826380

Jesus christ what a fucking irrelevant pussy.

>>8829330
I just hacked your browsing history. It says you came str8 from /a/, after being there 7 hours today, to this thread.

>>8827760
They were presenting the tech to him for use in a movie about caterpillars. He made clear *he* wants nothing to do with it. I doubt he will, or can, stop them fromswllong the tech to some company making horror games.

He is also clearly mad because those people used his name for this publicity campaign, filmed whole thing and got it out there at his expense.

>>8827760
>since miyazaki was unsettled
Autism speaks.

He wasn't unsettled. It just made him think of his friend with disabilities that couldn't move so good. So he saw these guys going "look how crazy and creepy these things move" and that they could just as easily be referring to people who cannot move in a """"normal"""" way. Even the guys he's criticizing understood his point, that's part of why the guy's crying. He'd never seen what he was developing in that way before.

>Artists looking down on programmers and engineers even though they're worth less to society
Pretty much.

>>8829362
>""""normal""""

>>8828792
And what function does intellectual circlejerking have for creating *art*, if any?

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This is your F. Scott Fitzgerald for tonight.

>>8829392
xD
edgyyyyyyyy

>>8829336
>irrelevant pussy
>Spirited away was #5 @ the box office this week

>>8829406
this week?

>>8829440
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-12-10/spirited-away-subtitled-screenings-ranked-no.5-at-monday-u.s-box-office/.109581

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Kojima would punch him in his face for disrespecting the technology.

>>8829452
damn..............

>>8829457
aye

>>8829452
>>8829406
>an animated kids movie about prostitution still sells in the land of the free

>>8829406
>>8829452
all the Miyazaki fans i've met irl are either mentally ill trannies or weak numale freaks. It's Marxist brain poison, dude

Tfw 90% of the posts ITT completely miss his argument and just assume he's upset the zombie reminds him of his disabled friend

>>8827803
Quit being such a fuckwad.

>>8829510
All the Miyazaki fans I've met are normal people. You sound like a freak with a fetish for traps that takes retarded things too seriously. Like movies, or anime.

>>8827803
dualism/idealism is pure pseudoscientific superstition. It's based on moral wishy washiness rather than on anything ressembling logic or proven facts

>>8829530
>tfw my trap fetisch comes and goes every 2 months
ive been fapping non-stop for 2 weeks now to traps. The last time i was on trap-craze was like, end of summer. Why is that?

What the fuck is his argument here? "I have a disabled friend, therefore body horror is a crime against humanity"? This guy is supposedly the greatest genius in all of Japanland?

>>8829557
you're gay. It's an inevitable slippery slope. Within a month you'll be cruising for Gay Sex with homeless junkies on truck stops. By the end of next year, you'll be on estrogen pills

>>8829557
I think it's pretty simple. You like dicks.

>pacifist "intellectuals"

>>8828356
Because they would get fired?
Fucking moron

>>8828356
They'd get fired and lose everything. I'm pretty sure Japan is a very respect based culture, so shitting on a respected veteran of the animation world wouldn't work well in furthering their career.

>>8828502
Irony.

>>8829569
No ive had this phase for 4 years now. it comes and goes, my desire for traps/crossdressers/feminine boys etc. it disappears overnight and vise versa, said desire.
>>8829572
Can i like dicks without being gay? Because i am positive i am not. GF, sex and stuff.

>>8827679
Im glad it did anon. And thank you for your comment too.

>>8826409
>demo
A particularly bad tech demo actually. What they did was already done better a good 20 years ago. For a look at the current state of the art in procedural locomotion take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQw

The guys were idiots for thinking Miyazaki would be impressed by their half-assed broken tech demo, which they rebranded as "LEL it's a zombie so it's supposed to be uncanny"

>>8829559
Because you are far from genius, I'll let it go.
He is appalled at their project to create an artist robot. They're dehumanized.

Miyazaki is a manic depressive, but he's essentially right.

>>8829627
I didn't say you were gay. I said you like dicks. And yes, you can. You do, don't you? Unless you're lying to yourself.

>>8829641
Yes, i love dicks. I must admit the Dick in the porn i watch is more important than the girl.
I just want to know how ti feels like tearing up a boipucci from a cute trap and stroke her dick at the same time. Maybe it's overrated.

>>8829627
Are you fucking around with them? You've never heard of bisexuals?

Ask your GF if she's into sharing.

>>8827686
People are not idiots anon. Rationality exists but is subverted.

>>8829649
You can't know unless you try it.

>>8829651
being a male bisexual is next level numale shit. easy up on that marxism bro

>>8827701
I dont watch a lot of anime. regardless i think Satoshi Kon is measures and measures better than Miyazaki.

>>8827181
>someone should have clocked him when he was a kid, he might not have turned out to be such an insufferable pussy.
Maybe if you experienced firebombing raids as a child like Miyazaki did, you might not have turned out to be such an insufferable cunt.

>>8829625
nice rebuttal

>>8829627
>Can i like dicks without being gay?
If you're a heterosexual woman, yes.

>>8829690
though I believe argument ought to be constructive and its study ought to be more important in society, I will grant you that some arguments are better off not argued.

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>>8829669
Bisexualism has existed since before beards.
Zero sieg heils for you.

>>8826380
i just fucking LMAO really hard, there have been like 4 threads of this on /a/ and now it's on /lit/.

the video is hilarious by itself but everyone bashing on it makes it somehow funnier.

>>8829319
Guilty.

>>8828074
>>8828110
I am somewhat inclined to agree with both of you and I don't think they're mutually exclusive, but I don't know enough about capitalism or capitalist theory or capitalist criticism to make that claim.

>>8826635
>feelings don't matter! let's talk about everything in this cold logical productivity-driven manner where all we care about are statistics and profit
go kill yourself you fucking autist

>>8827098
then get out of your room.
hanging out the internet too much can thoroughly misshapen your worldview.

>>8826380
I'd almost take it as a compliment. If you're supposedly designing zombies for a horror game, aren't those the exact feelings you want to elicit from your audience?

>>8827181
>faggot
>pussy
>clocked
you definitely weren't beat the shit out of and called faggot.

>>8829729
quit being a sjw. of course it's about profit, someone needs to put food on the table, you can't build a society out of just refugees, druggie squaters and liberal arts grads on welfare, you need someone to go outside and Actually Do Shit and Give People What They Want. Just look at Venezuela, people are literally squabbling over the last housecats. Or are you just pissed cause you got 60k into debt for the privilege of having a blue haired harpy shriek 'BIGOT!' in your face for 4 years?

>>8826380
i don't think he's entirely wrong.
i don't see what's the big deal with that animation.
but he's right that humanity is becoming less human and to think that the future is going to be run by people who are so disconnected from others and don't know how to empathize with others is pretty scary.

>>8827634
So much this. Just cut the bullshit you apologetic weeb faggots.

>>8827071
Why do edgy/ faux intellectual people always have to insist on this, that's like saying emotion isn't real because it's just a chemical reaction, or a house doesn't exist because it's just a pile of bricks.

>>8829776
Yeah, but hard labor is virtually unnecesary in these times. We just need to automatize production. The greeks were such self-indulgent assholes because they had fucking slaves which their economy depended on. We'll get robots in a while and I say go fuck yourself.

>>8827695
this is the best reply to my comment I've seen. It's true that I am guilty of oversimplification. Maybe we can exchange readings? I agree with some of your points but I'm not ready to agree with your conclusion.

Also as for Kant, his moral philosophy is dubious at best and corrosive at worst. The murderer at the door is embarassing.

>>8826446
How did you get that job?

>>8829776
Of course profit matters but to think that means you shouldn't care about how people feel is just autism. Also, bringing up the threat of starvation as a reason to transition into a purely profit-driven society is just fucking dumb.
The rest of your post makes no sense in relation to what I said, you're just going on the generic "fuck sjws fuck pc culture muh white genocide" rant that autistic losers get empowered by. Try getting some air and some friends buddy.

>>8829776
food is what you put on the table, not profit

>>8829807
>The greeks were such self-indulgent assholes because they had fucking slaves which their economy depended on
i belive there will be a difference between a society where you enslave other men as a result of warfare and a society where non-humans automatically produce goods which is then given to you by the state

Fucking weebs

>>883000

>>8830000

>>8827686
>liverpool
>england
"no"

>>8827211
but they aren't saying this thing they created was a success. the only use of it they could think of was a video game zombie - and that would be a good use. i don't know what they are aiming for exactly, but it definitely isn't that.

also, what difference does it make if something is created by a computer or a person. if a human makes something shit, isn't that cheap and disrespectful to living things? aren't hollywood movies and video games and reality tv and newspapers and buzzfeed? saying that anything made by AI will be bad is like saying anything made by humans must be good.

i don't really understand how a machine can make art but whatever, that's what they're working on. i don't see how this "sums up our times", it's a minor issue at most. such a clickbait post.

>>8830269
>saying that anything made by AI will be bad is like saying anything made by humans must be good.
No it isn't. Saying that anything humans make can be made by AI is like saying that anything humans make is shit enough to be made by a machine.

>>8829375
What else is art?

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This old cunt is my hero, he's like a Schopenhauerian Walt Disney.

>>8830491
>anything humans make is shit enough to be made by a machine
This is pretty much accurate. Most human output is nothing interesting at all.

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Definitely our guy.

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>>8830552

>>8830269
>>8830491
AI will soon be able to outdo all the geniuses at all the arts.

We're going to die of Stendhal syndrome, mainlining aesthetics like a cyberpunk Esseintes. Shit's going to be great.

>>8826477
real life is mathematics all the way down

I don't think Miyazaki necessarily had the right to be disgusted at these animators. He has the ability to work on things that nicely fit his worldview, these young up and comers do not have that luxury. They have to experiment and work with what they're demanded to, grotesque as it may be, because the market demands it.

On the other hand I totally agree with his disgust at the end about that guy who wanted to make a machine to draw as well as people.

When we're outsourcing art to robots we really have gone too far

>>8830577
>gets to live the dream a million people have but will never achieve
>whines about it
Are you trying to make me hate Miyazaki more?

>>8831013
>gets to
get outta here you whiny commie bastard.

that crawling thing was hideous, but more importantly had no context. if it had a story, maybe he wouldnt have wigged out, but what did they expect from a guy who uses poetic imagery?

>>8826572
His criticism is that it is grotesque and the product of someone who has never experienced pain. It is divorced from the human experience, and so all it is is a mockery of life.

>>8831057
>it is is a mockery of life
Isn't that EXACTLY what a zombie is supposed to be?

>>8831062
not the zombie you dingus. that someone would create such a clueless and stupid computer program to animate something so menial which, by the way could probably be done by someone half as smart as these kids in half the time, and have the audacity to call it "intelligent"

God you people are fucking retarded.

>>8827760
Their work lacked pathos. That is exactly the point. It wasn't art, it was just a computer program doing a thing they thought people might find icky. It's degenerate, not because it is vulgar, but because it is emotionally bankrupt.

>>8831088
The computer program thought it was a good idea to take a human form and use the head as a form of locomotion. Stupid, yes, but the fact that it produced something unexpected and unique that can be applied to create imagery that elicits a specific emotional response is valuable. Sure, someone could have come up with zombies walking with their heads on their own, but the computer came up with it first. In a vacuum, sure, it's stupid, but when someone figures out how to use it to its potential, then therein lies the artistic merit. The program is just a tool. Implementing the results is where the human creativity lies.

>>8828720
Art is about human interaction. By it'S very nature a machine cannot create art. Unless the AI passed the Turing Test, then it might be possible for it to create art.

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>>8826380
>my friend is disabled so now i never want to see anything even remotely creepy ever again

i'm surprised at how closed minded he is about this. it's one thing to say "the machine can never emulate the heart and soul we put into our work!" but to instead basically say "your animation triggers me" is just disappointing.

>>8831150
You know he was like there to see all that shit right? How are you so far off from getting what he's saying?

I mean it's obviously autism, but still bro how autistic are you? Come on!

>>8829510
That is strange. His works value nature, friendship, family, tradition.

>>8826423
What do I search on Youtube to find this scene?

>>8828787
Nigga shut the fuck up before you make me go existentialist Mickey Mouse on your ass.

Reading these comments that completely miss the point, I'm reminded of Frankenstein's Monster. Except Frankenstein's Monster had just enough humanity to realize that he was missing key qualities of humanity and was living an unnatural existence.

>>8827201
A program made to generate beautiful caves can be art, but the stuff generated by the program cannot be art.

>>8827047
>>8827061

I played VR drone racing and it's pretty sweet desu guys.

>>8828356
Japan is the most culture cucked first world country and it's fucking reprehensible they maintain these shitty irrational cultural trends after WW2.

>>8831110
i really don't know what you're saying—their work lacked pathos? why is that a bad thing? they are not using rhetoric to persuade an audience, they're using a new, visual medium to elicit feelings of dread and horror.

unless you're taking a really weird, loose definition of pathos that only means to be overcome with emotion. obviously, that's not what i'm talking about, since i'm talking about miyazaki's "critical" reasoning.

>>8829362
listen, if he can not understand the separation of his life versus other people's, he's a self-centered asshole and no amount of crippled friends will change that.

he's basically charging that in order to create meaningful art, you have to know the boundaries of pain—that's fucking stupid and arbitrary. if, as you suggest, he's imposing his disgust over their lack of knowledge of his experiences, he's doing the emotional equivalent of jumping in front of a train, and then whining that he got a boo-boo.

japan is a fucked up culture based heavily on career success, so those guys weren't upset because they found merit in his hissy fit, they were upset that they were castigated on camera by someone who is world-renowned.

the fact that they created something which moves inhumanly in order to unseat people is perfectly valid and shows a deep knowledge of visual horror. i don't begrudge those guys one iota.

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>>8826477
What a dumbshit post. Absolutely terrible.
First off, to imply that mathematics would make you that bad at conversation is ridiculous. The example you're setting up is a totally bastardized version of what "generalization" is. That first post is not a generalization, it is a simplification. There is a big difference.

Second, sorry you were born in le wrong generation but discourse has never been at the level you're trying to describe. Mathematics as a standard of discourse does lead to some negative consequence, I will admit, such as the worst analytical philosophy and people's despair over not being able to "prove" scientific facts.

But that's only the case when people equate not being provable with not having value. It's clearly useful to value logic, and to introduce it to your arguments when possible. Your last example betrays your confusion of basic logic, the statement you're looking for is "killing is not justified."

Also >>8827695 you don't understand what validity means.

>>8831646
how do i not understand what validity means in sentential logic? i put the first instance in quote marks because he was interchanging validity with truth/soundness.

put on your bifocals, grandpa

>>8827024
This is exactly right thank you for spelling it out. It's incredibly stuck-up of him to dismiss them like that, simply because it creeps him out.
And it is an argument, even if he doesn't justify his claims or whatever requirements the other poster would set.

>>8828467
Well that's just unfair, I've seen those things but might not be able to remember them perfectly

>>8828467
>>8831663
>He was disgusted when he found out that not one of the animators that worked for him knew what it looked like when a snake falls out of a tree
hehahhahah
>or knew what it looks like to force a dog to eat medicine.
HAHAHAHAHA what the fuck! these are the most important things to him, the metric by which he judges people? what a pretentious douchebag!

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>>8831651
The statement "if P, then Q" cannot be shown to be invalid, only unsound.
So if I made an argument like:
1) Assert P
2) Assert "if P, then Q"
3) Therefore Q
The argument is valid. Finding that P is true and Q is false makes the argument unsound, because assertion true is false, but not invalid.

A statement like "if P, then Q" works the same as an atomic statement like "P"

>>8831677
Exactly. It's like someone from the country laughing about how someone from the city has never seen a cow, or the city man scoffing that the farmer's never seen a 3-story building.

"My life has been different from yours so I'm better than you"

>>8831689
Assertion *2* is false

>>8831689
oh yeah, i'm the retard here. sorry, it's been a while since i took logic 101.

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>>8831677
>being disgusted with society because your entire team of employees collectively lack the knowledge needed to do the job asked of them is pretentious

Anon...

>>8831716
>>8831689
no, wait—i didn't fully explain what i meant, but i was right.

if the argument is:
>P
>if P, then Q
>not-Q

then it's invalid to conclude Q, or at least turns into a reductio ad absurdum in which anything goes.

>>8826632
There is no wisdom though. He's a bitter old man who thinks he knows better while constantly crying about no one following his idea of an impossibly pure humanity. He's in denial and makes the same stupid film over and over again in hopes of convincing himself to not an hero.

>>8831719
maybe i'm missing the context; were these animators supposed to draw these events?

if so, that makes it a lot less funny compared to miyazaki demanding that his employees visualize random occurrences, especially those ones.

The hell? It's a bare-bones AI that could be used in horror games. How the hell can he be so bitter?

>>8831727
They were used as examples for animation in Spirited Away. In the scene where the dragon guy is injured, he was supposed to fall off the wall like a snake would fall, and then the main character forces medicine down his throat like you would with a dog. Except none of the animators had owned a dog, so he wound up taking them to see one get fed medicine up close.

He wasn't just picking on them, he was upset that they didn't understand what he was saying because they had no experience with animals.

>hey check out this creepy zombie animation we came up with it would be perfect for depicting non-living, dead, reanimated, undead zombie ghoul or vampire creatures in like a video game or something so icky so not living
>this animation is an insult to life itself

>>8826396

Consider suicide

>>8831783
wow, that's such a mean thing to say on 4chan.org

wjhy does this retarded thread have so many posts and why wasn't it deleted a billion years ago

>>8831861
I strongly feel that this thread is an insult to life itself.

>>8831861
/lit/ is a mod-free zone
expect to see it become a full lolicon board by 2018

>>8826620
What is a zombie if not a mockery of life?

>watch your creative medium be completely taken over by otakus and waifufags
>the actual substance of storytelling and compelling characters is replaced with lolicon waifufaggotry and "male" Kpop star protagonists
>get completely triggered when you get lumped in with this garbage
>realize the the industry will never change so long as otaku culture remains in japan
>Recent headline: Otaku NEET virgins are causing the population of japan to go into freefall, they just want to fap to waifus and play dating sims
>develop a strong hatred of younger people over time, since they are now all indoctrinated into this garbage via popular japanese culture
>become very vocal about how japanese people have lost their ability to wonder and dream, and dedicate the rest of your career to setting an example of what actual animation and storytelling is supposed to be
>animewasamistake.mov
>some college students who idolize you invite you to see their new innovative project in animation
>go in with low expectations
>be shown them fucking around with the neural network and not producing anything worthwhile
>chew them out for wasting everyone's time
>"we want to teach a computer to draw like a human"
>be completely horrified at the fact that these kids want to mass-produce your art with computers
>assume they will program them to pander to waifufag otakus for that sweet, sweet yen profit
>realize you are staring into the abyss while these dipshit college students are wondering why you're being so mean
>storm the fuck out never looking back, and resume your mission to save animation

>>8832028
nice summary of events. let me see if i can condense it:
>be hayao miyazaki
>be a talentless hack

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>>8832028

fuck...

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>>8832028
MIYAZAKI

LONG HAVE I SLUMBERED

YOU MUST SUCCEED WHERE I FAILED

TAKE THIS SAMURAI SWORD AND MY ASSLESS CHAPS

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>>8832055

>>8830527
>wants people to lose their jobs and starve to death just so he can admire the moss growing on their abandoned office buildings
what a fucking cunt

>>8827047
VR is genuinely great on its own two feet though. You're right, down to the ASCII thing -- we're on /lit/, reliance on characters isn't exactly going to dampen immersion -- but just because people are being idiots about VR doesn't mean it's actually bad.

>>8829669
Ancient greeks did many homosexual acts and they are old males. Ur a retard!

>>8827024
The whole docufilm is fascinating, he's very critical of everything around him even his fellow director who was making Princess Kaguya at the time saying he would never finish it because he's never finished anything in his life

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>>8829520
iktf

>>8830510
It's not making something dumb just to see if you can.

>>8826982
He's been making nothing but crap since Spirited Away.

Miyazaki is an overrated Disney wannabe hack.

Isao Takahata, Satoshi Kon, Masaaki Kawata, Mamoru Oshii, Kazuya Tsurumaki, fuck even Hideaki Anno are better directors.

>>8828397
Nah senpai

Love's just love. OTOH love's love. You know what I mean, I know it. "We're just chemicals" means "chemicals are as great as us", see?

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Dear c/lit/s, I used to be one of you since the very beginning of the board but took a break and have been absorbed by the illiterate shithole that is /a/ due to old habits dying hard, I'm too jaded to enjoy what the majority of /a/ likes anyway but it's my way of passing time.

I've read some of your opinions on Miyazaki and other famous film directors, but I'm interested in learning if you're familiar with Masaaki Yuasa (Mind Game, Ping Pong, Kaiba, Tatami Galaxy) or Mushishi. Whenever the first was discussed in /a/, I've suffered a barrage of buzzwords (pretentious, artistic babble) and for the latter, /a/ can't into episodic things or short stories.
Also, if you haven't watched them, I heartily recommend 'Fune wo amu' (an on-going series about dictionary making, intent and words) and 'Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu' (about story telling and traditions).

>>8832160
Engineer a human without those chemicals and see if they still are capable of love, then.

Spoiler: they won't.

>>8831689
>The statement "if P, then Q" cannot be shown to be invalid, only unsound.
Depends on your meta-language, and your wording of "cannot be shown" is problematic in that it makes it seem like "validity" for material conditionals is unprovable.

>>8832166
haha fagger

>>8828110
which is a product of the university being appropriated and subsumed by...

>>8832166
Ping Pong and Kaiba are good.

Dropped Mushishi because I was bored of it and it didn't need to be 26 episodes long for such a directionless show.

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>>8832220
>directionless

>>8832110
Stop justifying your homoeroticism anon

>>8831762
>>8831727
>>8831677
>>8831663
What is it about this thread that's brought out all the dumbest mother fuckers on lit.
He wasn't just picking on them for not having seen random fucking shit. He kept trying to explain scenes of the movie by drawing parallels to real life and consistently his animators didn't know what he was talking about because not a single one of them had any experience with nature or real life, all any of them knew was other animated films because their focus was so myopic. If you want to be an artist you need to draw from real life and he wad disgusted that not a single one of his employees was able to do that, not just with those two examples but consistently with anything he asked of them. They'd spent their whole lives just copying other movies.

>>8832028
This guy gets it

>>8832220
>dropped mushishi

an hero

>>8830638

Yours might be.

Is there a chance that Miyazaki know about the metaphor that language is the death of living beings? I forgot who said that too, some structuralist thinkers or something.

>>8832400
>language is the death of living beings

What? Can you elaborate?

>>8832400
Hegel as well.

>>8832407
I barely remember it, so sorry if it's unclear or downright nonsensical. Maybe /lit/ can help me here. It's basically the imprinting of your own body and soul into symbols and signifiers, turning you into part of language, into some kind of corpse of codes. It really doesn't matter if you're biologically dead, because you've already become part of the big family of language, and everyone can break you down into collections of meanings and use your identity like tools. The death here is simply where you have to resign yourself for such procedure if you want to participate in the symbolic order (the basic system engineering of social order).

In previous eras (and even today), philosophers simply thought that as just a process of abstraction, where it has no bearing or consequence to your real life. But 20th century thinkers (because of the advance of linguistics, cybernetics, computers, mathematics, etc.) simply see it as nonsensical to believe in something can't be uttered in words in the first place, and would rather proclaim metaphorically that man is after all, dead (as an object) when known.

Now, there's a good chance that Miyazaki knows this. He probably still thinks that it is possible to exist beyond words and live as an anime. I mean, the word 'anime' itself means life, IIRC. To breathe life means that he genuinely believes anime is not just an illusion of motion or movement, but revealing something exterior to language regarding pure life itself. Not simply a cheap imitation of something, but instead produces something new and original itself.

The irony is that Ghibli studio is probably the one studio where workers are treated as some kind of machines of labor in a quasi-commie, iron-fisted manner. As if saying that, in order to not rely on robots, we must be as disciplined as robots ourselves as much as possible. The Soviets genuinely thought cybernetics would dehumanize workers too, lol. That's why they praised those "superman workers".

>>8826396
I think it was more about the disgusting crippled creature that was aimlessly wobbling around the floor with no purpose at all which showcased nothing but pointless disgust and suffering.

He was criticizing what was created, not the medium. They used this new medium and created this soulless pointless sack of disgust. What does that say about the people making the thing? And about our spiritual life in these times? The thing was as disgusting and pointless as the modern art is.

I agree with him.

He's literally just disappointed that man has come to a point where he won't make art (debatable whether this is art but whatever) himself, and instead has machines make it for him; Machines that have no understanding of humanity, of pain, of the human experience. It's literally that simple, folks.

>>8832045

>be you
>be an overweight shitposter
>suck dick for a living

>>8831140
There are already plenty of programs that can pass the Turing test vis-a-vis art, ie, can produce art people can't tell from human work. But the Turing test is literally one guy's opinion, hasn't aged well, and is only in the pubic memeplex because The Imitation Game came out right as the AI hype wave was ramping up.

>>8833629
>and is only in the pubic memeplex because
Everyone and their dog knew about the bloody Turing test before that movie bro.

The really dumb ones are where they're like "this chat bot is pretending to be an illiterate child from Tajikistan" where they stick a bunch of barriers to communication from the outset.

Well, the simulation of a being that knows no pain is pretty anti-life indeed, the idea itself is dreadful, but they were aiming for dreadful in the first place.

The dumb nerd should have defended his position instead of claiming they didn't mean anything.

>>8832028
You forgot one thing: Computers will be better at making actual animation and storytelling then him in the near future.

>>8833683
They didn't intend for it to not know pain, it's just simpler to design an AI learning program to not account for pain, as should be obvious.

>>8833703
They intended for the model to not feel pain in order to get those creepy crawling movements. I know they weren't aiming to insult life itself, but I'd be damned if they didn't find the results eerie and sticked with it because of it.

>>8833687
>in the near future.
I think we are due for a third AI winter, 2bh

>>8829744
you're right, I wasn't

>>8833721
Why so? Seems to me like China is providing more incentive for the West to keep up than ever.

>>8833712
Nah, I'm pretty sure that was just a side-effect, all the AI locomotion learning simulations I've seen have been painless, because if you have pain you need to add an additional layer of complexity to an already difficult task. I bet the zombie skin was only applied in hindsight to a boxy human model when they saw how absolutely weird the movement was and thought it might be a good fit.

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>>8827098
“Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman--a rope over an abyss.

A dangerous crossing, a dangerous wayfaring, a dangerous looking-back, a dangerous trembling and halting.

What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal: what is lovable in man is that he is an OVER-GOING and a DOWN-GOING.

I love those that know not how to live except as down-goers, for they are the over-goers.

I love the great despisers, because they are the great adorers, and arrows of longing for the other shore.

I love those who do not first seek a reason beyond the stars for going down and being sacrifices, but sacrifice themselves to the earth, that the earth of the Superman may hereafter arrive.

I love him who lives in order to know, and seeks to know in order that the Superman may hereafter live. Thus seeks he his own down-going. "

Garbage time is running out, time for meatcucks to be replaced with something better like Freddy preached!

Literally no one in this thread understood what Miyazaki was saying.

And this is why everyone should study Philosophy.

>>8833785
> no one in this thread understood
Correct, until I joined. I understand what he was saying perfectly.

>>8826423
Link?

>>8832567
Sounds like Baudrillard.

>>8832093

>modern man
>people

pick one

>>8833785
What did he say about?

OP is the cancer.

>>8826462
>Because we no longer can handle certain responsibilities, we want them to be automated.

Rather, because some of us cannot handle certain responsibilities, we want them to be automated. The world still has its Miyazaki's, but new avenues are now open to people who previously never could have achieved his success by traditional means.

>As an old man it might be harder for him to see that, which is natural.

I adore when people a third of someone's age just matter-of-fact state horseshit like this. This is another thing wrong with society, a complete loss of reverence for elders. Instead of considering and reflecting on their perspective it's so easy to just dismiss them as out of touch old people.

>>8834996
Old people often embrace all technological development that happened in the first half of their life and are distrustful of the ones in the latter half though.

That's how grandma is glued to the tv but thinks videogames are the devil. They just lose flexibility after a while.

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>>8834996
>This is another thing wrong with society, a complete loss of reverence for elders.
For the most of humanity's existence, reverence for elders was a smart thing to have since there was so little change. As a hunter-gatherer, you would live exactly the same sort of life as your elders, as did his elders and as would your grandchildren for tens if not hundreds of generations.

It would be a 100k years of people with stone and wooden tools. But then agriculture happened, and life was different than that of the elders. Villages started to exist, different lifestyle. Metal tools and plows came about, different lifestyle. Tribes became chiefdoms and kingdoms and empires et cetera. Of course a lot of these changes still happened gradually over the centuries so listening to the elders was still a good thing most of the time, but grandpa started to be wrong way more often for the simple fact that the things he learned may not longer have applied.

Change has been accelerating ever since and ever faster, so the wisdom of elders has become outdater sooner and sooner. Since the industrial revolution change has become so immense that elders would not recognise the world their great-grandchildren inherited. My great-grandfather may have been good with horses but that doesn't mean I trust his opinion on self-driving cars. That's because he has no idea what he's talking about. The loss of reverence is based on their loss of competence.

>>8826380
Miyazaki's anecdote detracts from what the project is trying to achieve. They used algorithms to create an AI which is trying to learn to move, and it did so in a way that is very unnatural to us because the algorithm didn't include any parameters for pain of contorting the body or relying on the head and neck muscles for movement.

Basically the presenting researchers were showing what the AI learned to do on its on. This is the point of R&D. This is how science works. And some guy saying 'Oh this offends me' is spitting in the face of science and progress. That's everyones answer for everything these days. Now we have a congress in the US that needs to meet and waste valuable time and money discussing legislation on gendered bathrooms instead of focusing on more important issues. I believe your point OP is 'society needs to be more sensitive to how people feel'. I feel exactly the opposite.

>>8826380
Miyazaki desperately needs someone to tell him to shut the fuck up and quit being such a sourpuss. It's a shame nobody will do it because of the respect your elders asian stuff.

>>8835272
I believe they're not trying to do just that. They're trying to make a point that artistic process can be automated by showing the model, thinking that someday it could breathe life better than real life itself. It's deep learning.
Even though, it's not a real creature, talking about real life is still relevant. It's based on some real life movements. For example, how an Eastern monster dragon moves is often based on real life snake movements. Why should someone create a complex algorithm to automate animating, whereas they can just learn how to make animation instead and still be better at the AI? That's what irks him, in my opinion.

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>>8835272
>tfw your first ubermensch factory is up and running while the west is still talking about its feelings regarding genetic engineering

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>>8832028
Thank you anon

>>8835385
That is absolutely not what bothers the speaker. He is bothered by the movement of the animation. It is a shallow interpretation of the hard work that went into the project. And any early iteration of an algorithm as complex as this will be very flawed. I have my minor in math and some of the higher level math problems I've worked on took months to complete and they were still flawed but they were useful approximations. That's how progress is made. Think about the value of being able to have an AI learn to animate something based on what it sees in nature. At least from a biological perspective we would finally solve some of the issues plaguing the entomology community which has reached a point where so many millions of insects have been cataloged that the process of identifying new species and putting them in their proper place taxonimically is slowing progress to a halt. In that field they are just starting to play with DNA cataloging and if a computer was able to draw a 3D render based on a sample, we would actually be able to automate cataloging so that progress can continue. This is just an example that came to mind off the top of my head because its a field I'm working in, but the options are limitless. Fearing automation is stupid. Fearing progress is stupid. We are humans we have always seeked to learn more about the world in which we live. We seek efficiency and accuracy. And seeking to advance automation is only natural.

>>8835400
Exactly. US is falling behind in bio-genetics and US companies are leaving to go places where they can do their research without behind hindered by our government and the 'feelings' of our people. We can already grow organs in a petri dish, but I guarantee China will have it commercialized and available to the public long before we get over ourselves and are willing to move forward. The older I get the more I hate liberalism/leftist/US democracy. Its like we want stop progress altogther and hold hands and sing kum-bi-ya and talk about our feelings instead of working hard and moving forward

>>8835431
>liberalism/leftist/US democracy
actually kill yourself

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>>8835420
>progress

>>8835431
>We can already grow organs in a petri dish
We absolutely are nowhere near this. Anything you may have heard to the contrary in the past few years is fraud.

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>>8835431
>left halts progress because of progressive feelings
>right halts progress because of christian feelings

Tough spot to be in desu.

>>8835446
would you rather be a medieval peasant, lad?

>>8835449
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0xaF1iLwsI
Trachia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo6R2JvD_6w
Kidney / Ear

..plenty of projects currently underway for making complex organs in the lab. This has been goin on for about 10 years man

>>8835470
Yeah US is no longer the place to be. Better brush up on our Mandarin boys

>>8835420
>He is bothered by the movement of the animation.
Yes, he is and there are more to that.
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2016/11/15/hayao-miyazaki-blasts-animators-on-nhk-over-ai-generated-zombie-clip/
>It really feels like it’s some sort of insult toward life.
>I feel like the last day of Earth is close.
>It’s because people are the ones losing their confidence,

Why you brought up the congress and how it is related to the debate, I don't know.

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>>8834996
The problem isn't just a loss of reverence for the perspectives of elders, it's that we don't respect any perspectives that don't already fellate our own anymore. While you may find the occasional visible public figure that still listens to the other side because their job is to make informed decisions that impact millions of people, down here with the rest of hoi polloi are a million idiots with internet access and the unfettered ability to shitpost their uninformed opinions across the globe without having to stand by anything they say or even consider the other person's point, let alone deeply reflect on its merit.

I mean, look at the retarded shitshow that is this thread.

>>8826396
He wasn't the one crying though. It was the kid he btfo'd. If the kid is so sure of his value why does he crave the approval of his elder so much?

>>8835518
>>It really feels like it’s some sort of insult toward life.
>>I feel like the last day of Earth is close.
>>It’s because people are the ones losing their confidence,
sounds like some bible belt shit to me femme

>>8835431
America is not leftist in any way shape or form, it's your conservative retards that won't allow people to """"play god"""" as if that's an actually meaningful phrase.

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>hires computer scientists
>berates them for not being educated in the liberal arts

>>8835528
You're so arrogant with your view. I bet you're a bigshot from a big city, aren't you?

>>8835518
His complaints are retarded. First of all generating that AI is a human feat (more interesting than drawing some shitty zombies anyway), second of all the aesthetic and artistic quality of having a dead thing drawn by a dead thing to look like a dead thing obviously went straight over his head, which leads me to believe he is a pleb.

>>8835531
regardless of left or right america is the most feels over reals country of the developed world

>>8835548
>second of all the aesthetic and artistic quality of having a dead thing drawn by a dead thing to look like a dead thing
Can you explain more? What aesthetic?

>>8835552
>regardless of left or right america is the most feels over reals country of the developed world
Germany probably deserves that title. They're complete and utter monkey chimps when it comes to anything Nuclear. Bunch of conservative retards who get paranoid over nothing. I mean they just built the stellarator which is a fucking masterpiece and the Greens want to ban it because muh spooky atoms.

>>8835501
Macchiarini is being done for fraud.

The kidney thing is not even vaguely convincing, that looks like the growing stemcells on a donor extracellular scaffold. No working organs have been made like this, and the kidney is not the least complicated organ.

The field is full of overhyped shit, and I can't blame you for buying into it, but it's nowhere near as far developed as people like to make out. As for the 10 year comment, you will be lucky to have anything vaguely like these claims in 10 years.

>>8835576
Is it really the cybernetics of our contemporary then? Terribly hyped up by govt. contractors?

>>8835612
Most big things in this field take forever. We weren't even able to culture human stem cells until a couple of years ago
http://www.nature.com/news/human-stem-cells-created-by-cloning-1.12983

That's not even cloning, that's just growing the bloody things in a dish.

It's important work and no doubt eventually we'll get the breakthroughs, but it's decades away most probably. That said there are some amazing developments. For example, let's say you have cancer and you have to have chemo that will make you sterile. We can take out a ball, extract the cells and make you unsterile in the remaining ball! Or hell, play a funny prank on your friend, make him sterile but produce sperm with your genetics. I think as well there's potential for making p good skin relatively soon (within 10 years maybe), and I reckon that'll be the first usable donor organ (they do actually already make skin for peeps with real bad burns, but it's really shit skin).

>>8835640
>Or hell, play a funny prank on your friend, make him sterile but produce sperm with your genetics.
the beta virgin nerds will cuck everyone in the end

>>8835640
>Or hell, play a funny prank on your friend, make him sterile but produce sperm with your genetics
Now this is some advanced cuckoldry

>>8835640
What is your opinion on in vitro meat? Is it safe? Is it technically feasible in the near future? I read that it's still expensive from an economic standpoint though. Will it get cheaper?

>>8835666
>the thread has reached the bump limit and so Satan's plan remains secret
Shit.

>>8835672
>I read that it's still expensive from an economic standpoint though.
It's insanely expensive to produce atm.

I saw Elementary the other week and it was about fake meat being certified Kosher and not haram (whatever that's called) and I thought that was touching on some interesting points. Note that the developed world doesn't just have highly developed industry, it has highly developed agriculture too. The end game of lab meat for me is to produce stuff that is cheaper both in cost and in how much land it uses, but what will that mean for all agriculture if it becomes the preferred meat over cattle? So the big elephant in the room is the global economic effects, especially on grain prices. Also, likely the first economical meat produced is not going to be like meat, but do you necessarily want it to be? It's ripe for some molecular gastronomy shit.

As for scalability, couldn't say. The chemical engineer/biology crossover is something I'm starting to look into, but I don't know enough about it to comment to be quite honest. It's promising in a general sense though.

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>>8826477

WHAT HAVE WE FORGOTTEN?