"To awaken the modern world, one must praise laziness. The

Taoism

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>>7272607
Look into comedy.

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>>7272607

>>7272656

>womenfolk

Oh boy.

Daily reminder that Houellebecq advocates parasitism for aspiring artists

>>7272656
>the picture complains about clichés
>the OP's picture is cherrypicking at its finest

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NEET shaming should be a bannable offence. But to stay on topic I would suggest Taoism. Buddhism as practiced today kinda strays from the original message/teaching, too mixed with local beliefs both past and present.

definitely Gaston Bachelard

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if everyone became a "lazy" neet, there would be no governement to feed you

>>7272708
If everyone becomes a philosopher there'd be nobody to build houses or tend to farms, but we dont live in fear of that ever happening.

>>7272708
good tbh we need to destroy modern states and democracy to bring about the rebirth of the Great Man™

>>7272708
He's talking about awakening "the modern world", that is a world that is yet to exist, and which will come into being as a result of activity.

In other words, there will come a time when it won't make sense for the majority to be active anymore. Some argue that the service industry represents activity for which there isn't any real need. It's a bridge between the past and the future.

>>7272656
>tfw wrote this
>tfw depressed wagecucked

>>7272607
can you into spanish ??

Poemas de oficina - Mario Benedetti.

You wont want to get to an office never again .

>>7272708
if everyone became everyone there'd be no anyone.

>>7272708

I'm pretty sure Plato's Republic points out that there will never be an entire body of citizens with the same inclinations. There will always be those who are willing to take on the scut work with no questions asked. It's those who wonder why that should take advantage of the opportunity to use those surplus resources for something else.

>>7272708
If everyone became engineers there would be no government to feed you.

>>7272607

Clearly, the unsuccessful man is a frog.

>>7272779

He was 21 when he wrote that. 22 when he wrote The Rum Diary.

What have all you NEETs written?

>>7272828
Expect my epic poem to hit the shelves next year

>>7272708

MUH WORK ETHIC

At least you're contribootin to society hu? They'll honour you for your service to civilization with a nice tombstone.

>>7272894

What's with the hostility? He even put lazy in quotation marks.

Shit man, get a grip.

>>7272656
How do I get rid of guilt? I'm 23 and I'm living off my parents money with no ambitions, and I should feel good for doing fuckall every day and having fun. But fuck, that doesn't make the guilt go away. How does he do it?

what young people who think it's cool to be lazy and waste their days shitposting won't realize until their old is the regret they'll have for wasting the infinite possibilities of their life on the most banal path available. but then you can always resort to sour grapes and say that doing something with your life is for losers or whatever kind of sickly thought your resintiment can dream up

>>7272694
I'm sure you're an expert on what that original teaching was.

NEETs are degenerate parasites.

>>7273256
truth

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>>7273256
>degenerate

>>7273256
pack 2 boll burgerman

>>7272708
>if everyone became a scientist, there would be no workers to implement their ideas in reality
Fuck science, right?

>>7273256
How are NEETs more of a parasite than the average wagecuck or rich guys milking the system? They use minimal amount of resources, don't demand too much and secure the stability of society by being passive losers.

>>7273256
Always funny to see how angered wagecucks are by NEETs. The wagecuck works his whole life, miserable, trying to find the contentment the enlightened NEET has had all along. The wagecuck detests the NEET because the NEET reminds him that all of his work has amounted to nothing.

>>7273228
Maybe he's one of the select few, but it's obvious it's really a pose (inb4 projecting). I haven't really encountered any accounts by the Oblomov type of NEETs who claim to be happy without a trace of irony or pride in their meaningless existence. For hikis, especially, that self imposed asceticism is a matter of pride. Their poor environments is camouflaged as the-world-sucks-why-leave mentality, but who wants to live surrounded by piss bottles, unwilling to try a hand at anything remotely active, like contemplative journal writing? (the laziest of activities I can think of)
The few exceptions are some posts of a few anonymous users such as that one.

Really, the reasons are very poor, a posteriori excuses taken as laws: I will no longer produce stuff because there's no reason to life, therefore I will pursue the /hedone/.
A man of intellect who has thought maturely on the matter of his own destiny always leaves his options open. Occasional guilt or more likely, depression, is probably unavoidable for such a life style though due to the nature of inactivity.

>>7273319 >>7273301
NEETs contribute nothing. All they do is consume and take up space, like parasites. They are excess cogs in the complex machinery of society.

>>7273338
>contribute

You have a lot to learn from the enlightened NEET.

>>7273338
>contribute
my favourite spook

>>7273344 >>7273352
Whatever helps you perpetuate your parasitism, right?

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>>7273301
>>7273319

>>7273338
How does a wagecuck doing a mundane job that could be replaced by a machine contribute more than a NEET? He/she slows down progress.

You're confusing society with capitalism.

>>7273301
>How are NEETs more of a parasite than the average wagecuck or rich guys milking the system? They use minimal amount of resources, don't demand too much and secure the stability of society by being passive losers.

This. Fact of the matter is, the people who USE UP most of the resources are at the top, not the bottom. Granted that the NEET does not produce as much, but as far as parasites go, problematic ones, that is, you ought to be looking up, not down. Not looking up with a critical eye is the biggest spook of them all.

>>7273397
NEETs are this deluded.

>>7273430
wagecuck can't argue?

>>7273448
You live in a fantasy world where you can't see the consequences of what you're doing. Devote yourself to something and work hard at it. What are you doing on this earth otherwise?

>>7272714
>If everyone becomes a philosopher there'd be nobody to build houses or tend to farms
You know hesiod, right?

>>7273459
Living.

>>7273459
what consequences?
assuming i was actually NEET i'd be consuming way less resources than the average person.

>>7273344

If this is true, then why is /lit/ full of shitty threads and wikipedia-level knowledge based strawmen ? Checkmate NEET

>>7273487
You tell me. Checkmate wagecuck

>>7273463
absolutely disgusting

>>7273502
Yes, someone who is so alienated from life by wage slavery would probably think so.

>>7273495

>You have a lot to learn from the enlightened NEET
>Check catalog and read threads
>Ebin maymays and people who obviously don't read the books they talk about
>No konwledge accessible, de juris, to anyone other than you
>You have to undergo a mystic experience and embrace a "conceptual" scheme to pretend that there's something to learn from NEETS

ayy

>pretend to spend their day writing, reading philosophy and literature, getting well-read and thinking
>deny every point made with accusing the user of being a “wagecuck”

>>7273511
Can't you see how selfish you are, excommunicating yourself from the working world and parasitically consuming the fruits of everyone else's labor?

It's crazy how you can live with yourself. Devote yourself to something other than yourself.

>>7273463
>Living in your parent's basement
Fixed.

>>7273527
Why does it bother you when a NEET does it and not the overlords who siphon off the fruits of your labour for their own profit?

To answer your question, I'm incompetent. If I took a job, there would be someone else out there who couldn't get it (until I'm fired). By not working I leave space for those who actually WANT to work (or have been led to believe they think do).

>>7272607
Laziness isn't a virtue, it is the lowest most pathetic state of human existence. Consumer society expects and thrives on laziness, and the only opposition to it is active independence and self-sufficiency.

Excerpts from "Society of the Spectacle" by Guy Debord. In this book, 'spectacle' is loosely defined as the mass media, including advertising, television, the news, etc. So for example, a spectacular event is an event communicated by the mass media, and so on.

>On holidays and vacation
154
"The epoch which displays its time to itself as essentially the sudden return of multiple festivities is also an epoch without festivals. What was, in cyclical time, the moment of a community's participation in the luxurious expenditure of life is impossible for the society without community or luxury. When its vulgarized pseudo-festivals, parodies of the dialogue and the gift, incite a surplus of economic expenditure, they lead only to deception always compensated by the promise of a new deception. In the spectacle, the lower the use value of modern survival-time, the more highly it is exalted. The reality of time has been replaced by the advertisement of time.

>On daily life and falsified memory
157
"Another side of the deficiency of general historical life is that individual life as yet has no history. The pseudo-events which rush by in spectacular dramatizations have not been lived by those informed of them; moreover they are lost in the inflation of their hurried replacement at every throb of the spectacular machinery. Furthermore, what is really lived has no relation to the official irreversible time of society and is in direct opposition to the pseudo-cyclical rhythm of the consumable by-product of its this time. This individual experience of separate daily life remains without language, without concept, without critical access to its own past which has been recorded nowhere. It is not communicated. It is not understood and is forgotten to the profit of the false spectacular memory of the unmemorable.

>On 'free time'
159
"The preliminary condition required for propelling workers to the status of 'free' producers and consumers of commodity time was the violent expropriation of their own time. The spectacular return of time became possible only after this first dispossession of the producer."

>>7273597
Why did you structure your post like this?

Page numbers and all

>>7273546
The overlords worked to get where they are.

>>7273616
The book is structured this way. It contains numbered theses grouped by their content. These are from Chapter 6: Spectacular Time.

>>7273616
b/c he's Guy, shilling his anti-work propaganda

>>7273620
Correction: "Most of the overlords worked to get where they are." The NEET who replies to you will likely point out products of wealthy nepotism like Jaden Smith, or something.

>>7272607
i dont really care about NEETs much tbh, do whatever you want, a few people taking advantage of the system is always a given and not worth losing sleep over

just dont expect any respect for it though

Why are these threads always on /lit/? Not even /r9k/ has as many NEET v working threads

Bob Black's best known essay is about this
he's not quite for NEETs either...but kinda

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Calm down, NEET. Take a chill pill, mang :3

>>7273705
we're philosophy and english majors so we have to prepare for our future after graduation.

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>>7273256
define degenerate

NEETs make me laugh because they think (or want to think) the rest of the world has a shitty, dead-end office job and their sole argument is throwing "wageslave" or "wagecuck" as an insult.

>>7273777
most do

>>7273747
>wageslave gets so assblasted he makes an edit and uses emoticons passive aggressively.

lol, sure I'm believing you don't have rage at selling your soul boiling right under the surface. Very convincing.

>>7273777
Or they've read Adam Smith and other enlightenment figures who made important arguments, now mostly unheeded, against wage labor. You know as well as I do that a large portion of jobs could be automated.

>>7273791
Are you telling this is a good thing?

>>7273791
>many wageslaves will be forced to become NEETs soon anyway

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Wagecucks BTFO ! ! !

>>7273797
Absolutely. Then people can focus their energies on creative pursuits. Without the need to work people would have the security to create art and invent things, to travel, to become more informed citizens, which would allow democracy to function as it ought, etc.

>>7273807
normies btfo

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>>7273791
>Adam Smith
>21st century

what next, are you going to say you subscribe to the Von Mises Institute Newsletter?

>>7273766
non-semitic

>>7273821
>>7273807

>>7273766
get a job and buy a dictionary

>>7273831
>job
>2015

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>>7273833

any long-term NEETs here?
how long has it been?
how do you survive?

>>7273831
>having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline.
so what it's really saying is
>not being a normie
>not wanting things other people want
or showing evidence of
>a gradual and continuous loss of strength, numbers, quality, or value.
strength and numbers aren't really applicable in this context
so it's really a loss of
>quality or value
both of which are really just
>things defined by society to be good

why is it considered bad to be degenerate?

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>>7272607
>metaphysical reality

Where is the evidence that such a thing even exists?

>>7273620
>he actually believes the capitalist rhetoric

>>7273646
>products of nepotism
>some silly black kid who got few millions
Ah, living in your world is great!

>>7273705
The average person on /lit/ is smart compared to the /r9k/ dwellers, and smarter people tend to ask more questions/show interest in the world, so the comparison between different livestyles it's given.

Also>>7273757

>>7273777
But anon, most do. 3/4 of people hate their job.

>>7273797
>wasting human capital is not a horrible idea
>let's work for the sake of working!

>>7273873
>Lawrence Krauss

lol

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>>7273782
Just calm down, man. You're imagining I am some kind of freaky bogeyman, there is literally no implication from this simple edit and me selling my soul before rageing against the evil Job Giver!

Friendly reminder that 50% or more of the workforce will be NEET within two decades:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

Current NEETs are just early adapters. Work is deprecated.

Been a NEET for about 4 years in total, 3 of those in a row.

Was pretty decent but I couldn't get passed the aspect of not contributing to the world that was allowing for my NEET life style.

Just felt like a leach on my dad and the system in a whole, doesn't feel right to only take and not give to the world since the world gives to me,

Currently employed at a decent job but low paying but still living with parents.

>>7274126
>leach

>>7274126
>passed

>>7273807
This:
This. Is. It.
Why can't everyone get on board with this?

NEETs should be brought out onto the street and executed, delicious

>>7272831
kek

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Hardly an apologist but still you know how pliable Nietzsche statements are. Guaranteed replies from wagecucks on r9gay.

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>tfw 4 days a week I go to my "wageslave" job at a coffee shop from 6-2
>enough to kill any guilt born of laziness
>not so much as to drive myself crazy with stress
>tfw 4 days a week I get to spend 8 hours drinking coffee, shooting the shit with regulars and reading
>tfw 4 days a week I get to be home by the early afternoon and spend the next 8 hours doing whatever I please
>tfw 3 days a week I get to do this anyway
>tfw this objectively comfy job pays enough for a small apartment, some recreational drugs and even a few luxuries like physical copies of my favourite books and internet
>tfw I'm living out the beginning of Huxley's dystopia and it's actually pretty great

NEET's just falsely assume that all work is shit tbh, maybe I'm brainwashed and conditioned to hell but at least I'm happy and possess a convincing illusion of satisfaction

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>>7273256
I'll have two extra large BigMac menus with Coke, and please step on it anon.

>>7273228
you should feel guilt if you're neet willingly
you are negatively impacting your parents

>>7274259
You are just half-neeting because you are still cucked by feelings of "adding" to society.

Its not a bad thing, but there is really no logical reason to not follow the logic to its conclusion as total self ownership and authorship of ones own life and time.

>>7274259
>huxley's distopia
it was an utopia you dumbass, the book ends with how even the ones who weren't on board can be happy in it. the only victim is the guy who was taught to hate life in every way and couldn't stand life just working.

>>7274318

>You are just half-neeting because you are still cucked by feelings of "adding" to society.

Is the feeling of pride/happiness/contentment/satisfaction that comes from being able to support yourself also a delusion you cuck yourself into?

>>7273561
Laziness isn't something to admire, but on the other hand being a wage-slave is just as bad. The only "cool" thing to do is take a form of initiative that subverts the system or manipulates it to your own ends but it's a risk and the stakes are too high for most people.

work is such a waste of time, it's awful. after not working for a year i have a full time job now and i have hardly any time to read up on current events. i still read lots of books on the bus/train going back and forth but can hardly follow world events and the required background information to understand them at any reasonable level. no wonder normies don't understand anything at all, you really need hours every single day to apprehend anything about the world.

also NEETs are an active benefit to society, demand for labor is incredibly low and anyone who is willing to stay out of work and leave a job open for someone who would actually prefer to work is doing everyone a service.

>>7273873
>Krauss
hi leddit

>>7274259
if you can get a gig like this its cool, but most NEETs are being extremely reasonably because they wouldn't possibly be able to get an enjoyable job like this and instead would have to work in a shit hole they despise.

>>7274368
so go to school and get some half-way decent skills you retards

NEETs do realize that not all people hate their jobs, right? There are jobs, even for unskilled labour, that aren't soul-crushing shit-tier McJobs.

I work as a substitute teacher. I get the equivalent of 30$ an hour for drinking free coffee, reading a bit every now and then, and shooting the shit with kids. An added perk is that at my tender young age, whenever I tell a girl what I do for a living, I can observe the pupil dilation in real time, caused by a massive release of oxytocin. Being good with kids is just primordial ladyboner material.

And honestly, I think it's kind of conspicuous how vehemently and antagonistically NEETs seem to try and justify their lifestyle choices. If it works for you cool, but why the urge to constantly tell everyone it works for you, it's superior, and that we're all slaves who hate our lives? It's pretty fucking transparent.

>Believing that you are special and that you make society great by doing the same thing hundreds, upon thousands, upon millions of people do not realizing that no matter the side you're on you hate the other side of the same coin and are so complacent with your worth that you delude yourself into believing that doing such a small task commands the utmost respect from those around you on an Ancient Alien technological jelqing forum masquerading as an Ancient Mesopotamian art gallery based on a Modern Day struggle that takes place in a Utopian future.
You are all degenerate, get over it.

>>7274403
One needs a certain personality to be a successful NEET. Some people are unable to structure their own time and end up wallowing in their own filth and misery. These people were born to be wage slaves. Other people are perfectly fine without a job, and would prefer to live without one if they could.

Why don't NEETs contribute to society?

Why don't they work at cash advance stores in the ghetto? Why don't they design weapons of war? Why don't they work for a logging company and deforest the third world? Why don't they work for a PR firm hired to lie about a corporation? Why don't they trade in commodities and raise the price of wheat in third world countries? Why don't they design more addictive cigarettes? Why don't they work at a cell phone company, encouraging people to throw rare earth minerals of their old phone into a trash heap and impulse purchase the new model? Why don't they work for an international bank and convince people to take loans they don't need with high interest rates? Why don't they work for a fast food restaurant and create the next great 1500 calorie sandwich?

Why don't they CONTRIBUTE to society instead of HURTING it?

NEETs are SELFISH. They refuse to HELP OUT.

>>7274483
Yeah, or why don't they teach compulsory computer coding high school classes that have replaced real classes, like history and geography?

>>7273807
Because I don't want to be forced to pay out of my pocket so someone can be a parasite.

>>7274495
Mr. Fuller wasn't asking a question there, and if 1 in 10,000 people were working, you wouldn't be working.

>>7274052
>muh Luddite fallacy

>>7274500
But the whole 1 in 10000 are working is total bullshit however, there is always work to be done. Regardless if it's a question or not, I do not want to be forced to support some NEET.

>>7274052
> 50% or more of the workforce will be NEET within two decades:
So I'll have about 20 years of savings and can then go neet and live it large?
FUCK YES

I'd get a job but my potential employers keep saying I don't seem motivated enough

>>7274501
How are the advanced robots of today and the coming decades at all comparable to the simple machinery the Luddites feared? Back then the technology was such that it caused jobs to be replaced, but at the same time new jobs were created -- to manufacture the new technology, to design it, to distribute it, to repair it, etc. Humans did the jobs that machines could not. In the coming decades, if experts on robotics are correct, robots will be able to do many if not most of the jobs humans can do. New jobs needn't be created with the technological advances because robots and other machines will be able to do just about every job a human could.

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>tfw we're only decades away from machines taking over all utilitarian jobs
>tfw in 25 years citizenship alone will be all you need to be guaranteed a living wage
>tfw a new Rennaissance is just around the corner as 1 in every 1000 of the new generation of NEETS will be ambitious and curious enough to become a polymath
>tfw we are on the cusp of becoming the most cultural society the world has ever seen
>tfw we are still free to drop out of this society without fear of starvation
>tfw truly free, minimally worked and culturally enriched with a good 50 years of life still ahead of me

inb4 futurist go home

I'm ok with needs being leeches. All through the history of civilization society has been divided between the what Alfredo Pareto called "the vital few and the trivial many". The vast majority of people have always lived pointless cowardly lives of no significance. NEETs are just the 21st century version of that. I think someone in the Catholic Church said "the poor will always be with us". There will just always be parts of our population who are too weak and cowardly to do anything important. Instead of begging for food in the streets ala 1400 Florence, they can stay inside and masturbate to cartoons out of sight and out of mind. All the better I say. These infantile souls live their life as a permanent saturday morning watching cartoons and eating junk food, while the vital few chart the course of history for mankind. It's always been like that, it won't change now.

>>7272708
Good. Society is a mistake.

>>7274483
>Why don't NEETs contribute to society?
Because they don't actually have any skills or interests outside of vidya and anime.

who in their right mind would want to contribute to society

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/11/hipsters_on_food_stamps.html

>>7274523
But all the wagecucks who are ambitious will be wanting to do things with their time and out compete all the neets since they actually have experience and working knowledge.

>>7272656
This is the most deluded piece of drivel I have ever seen seriously posted outside of /pol/. How could anyone believe this garbage?

>>7274530
that's right! the society that rejected you to a lifetime of nogf! screw them! stick it to those bastards who wouldn't give you the sexy gf you deserve by sitting on your butt shitposting all day!

>>7274504
Most of the work being done isn't work that needs to be done. The work that needs to be done can be done by a small portion of the population, while the rest of the work, the work that's not important (i.e., most work), can be automated. You wouldn't have to support NEETs. The system would have to be appropriately altered to compensate for smaller work force. Companies would be more productive because machines can work around the clock and are more efficient, they'd be heavily taxed, and you'd get a basic income from the government.

>>7274525
Why is being "vital" inherently better than being trivial in regards to Being?

I can see the merit in being industrious and striving for knowledge for survival but if, as you're saying, the beggar can now be left to their comfy apartments and their "bread and circuses" , why is there any incentive to strive beyond these means other than Socio-Political reasons (you want people to like and admire you) or to sate the hunger of your own will (which imho is the mark of a truly great philosopher/artist/human being)

I would go on welfare but you need to have no savings at all and that seems like a dangerous situation to put yourself in. Then and in the future, how are you expected to retire? What if they say you're not applying to enough jobs and stop assistance? If I found a way to hide the little money I've saved up (it's like less than 10k), find a job that pays cash and go on welfare I would.

>>7274542
But that's the thing, taxes. I would still be forced to provide for some unproductive fuck, who could very well work. And no, with every change in technology we adapt and with that adaptation comes more work.

>>7274542
>basic income
The problem is no one can say how much this will be.
Some people enjoy concerts/holidays/buying books and if basic income doesn't cover that then it isn't really great

>>7274531
got a 404.

>>7274541
>arguing with holes

>>7274563
They should be able to earn extra money by rating the shit. The post wagecuck world is the world of selfpublished art ... or rather "art".

Also concerts will be obviously dirt cheap too, since there would be a huge supply of wannabe artists. Besides, given how most people would only have their basic income, the prices will adjust to that.

Traveling shouldn't be a problem with public transportation either, although I bet airtravel will get expensive.

>>7272708
>if everyone lived like they do in the 1st world we would be fucked.

>>7274587
Only you're going to have x million former wagecucks with savings.
Sure the minimum wage people won't have a lot of buying power but anyone middle/upper income will live even more like kings.

>>7274570
It works here, strange.

>>7274552
>Why is being "vital" inherently better than being trivial in regards to Being?

to a trival person, it isn't, which is why you are. and that is ok. enjoy your hentai, faggot.

>>7274259
>Huxley's dystopia
Utopia anon, everyone being happy for ever can't be a dystopia.

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>>7274615
Thanks anon, I will :3

Can someone enlighten me as to some actually viable ways of attaining NEETdom while not being wretchedly poor?

Short of going on welfare what do you NEETs do to supply the minimal amount of money to support the hedonist lifestyle?

>>7274633
pretend you have autism

>>7274633
Welfare, I guess.

>>7272708
Who is this semen demon?

>Americans feeling personally offended whenever the purpose of laziness is mentioned

You people are so fucking cucked into that protestant work ethic it's fucking ridiculous.

any serious discussion of post-work requires a serious discussion of depopulation

>>7274649
I think Onta draws him.

>>7274699
What do you mean by this?

>>7274259

>part time coffee shop gig
>pays for apartment, drugs, extras

No way

>>7274773
that the communist mantra of "The Boss Needs You, You Don't Need Him" is rapidly being reversed

>>7272607
>ITT we will be glorifying sloths. Bonus points if you can convince someone to become a neet; " I'll be more productive."

>>7274782
I live in a small town so rent is cheap and I'm not an addict (well, maybe a caffeine addict) so the drugs come and go as needed

I'm barely pulling 25k a year and I definitely wouldn't be able to afford living in a cultural centre or even a small suburban area but I've found my place, my means of living in this place and a relatively happy life to boot

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>>7273338
>Human beings
>Cogs in a machine
What have they done to you, fam?

>>7272607
I AM a lazy pomo, could sum1 plz shop for me sum pixxxx of x's and crosses (maybe flames) over the foreheads of pop icons that especially represent the idea of decadence? K-Thanks

>>7272708
you know you can grow food out of the earth right?

>>7273620
what about inheritance, theft, nepotism

>>7273814
>Then people can focus their energies on creative pursuits.
Not everyone has what it takes to be a creator. A setup like this would only bring more mediocre work to the world.

>>7274050
>Job Giver!
He calls it a job giver you see they have the slaves thanking them for work!

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>>7274900
that is still work

>>7274126
WHere does this delusion come from that if you have a job you are contributing to soceity? are we talking about taxes? Because I think you could have contributed a lot more if you took the free time you had and used it to learn and create something of value or work towards solving a problem that we have.

In Praise of Idleness

By Bertrand Russell

The idea that the poor should have leisure has always been shocking to the rich. In England, in the early nineteenth century, fifteen hours was the ordinary day's work for a man; children sometimes did as much, and very commonly did twelve hours a day. When meddlesome busybodies suggested that perhaps these hours were rather long, they were told that work kept adults from drink and children from mischief. When I was a child, shortly after urban working men had acquired the vote, certain public holidays were established by law, to the great indignation of the upper classes. I remember hearing an old Duchess say: 'What do the poor want with holidays? They ought to work.' People nowadays are less frank, but the sentiment persists, and is the source of much of our economic confusion.

http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

>>7274483
Exactly having a job does not necessarily mean you are doing something good for anyone. work for works sake is not benefiting anyone only the money that changes hands is what is important there.
"nothing is less productive than to make more efficient what should not be done at all" -Peter Drucker

>ctrl-f
>no situationalist International
Pretty sure these guys where among the first defenders of NEETdom.

>>7274495
Taxes?
does the company you work for pay you more when profits increase? or does some parasite at the top take it?

>>7274939
>Because I think you could have contributed a lot more if you took the free time you had and used it to learn and create something of value or work towards solving a problem that we have.

if you're not good enough to get paid to do it then you ain't gonne be solving shit anyways, or lets put it this way, the problem you, my friend, are best suited to solving is that there are productive people who need coffee but have more important problems to solve than making coffee

>>7274504
You would be like a patron because if everybody was payed without having to work many would create art or you would be like an investor because some people givin money would go and create new technology you say neet like that means they are not doing anything. Just because it isnt an offical payed for project doesnt mean people arnt doing stuff

this thread made me realize how absolutely childish and silly communism truly is. can't believe i used to take such idiotic shit seriously.

If there are any mods on this board please I beg you use that word switching app that they implemented years ago to switch the word "cuck" to cakow or banana or any other word

Like fuck come up with a different insult this is a literature board open up a dictionary. I'll get you all started

"wage-catamite "

>>7275003
because it envisions a future need for human capital?

>>7274935
ok the last two are still work but inheritance is not work that is a bit silly

>>7275003
it's not even communism. you still have to work in communism, forced labour of some kind.
this just plain childish stupidity.

>>7275024
>you still have to work in communism, forced labour of some kind.
no retard read marx

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>>7275003

If anything communists are labour fetisjists.
It's mostly anarchs who glorify lethargy.

>>7275014
Get out cuck

>>7274690
this

murika

but there's heaps of murikan neets though

>>7275022
inheritance is the transfer of work
inheritance laws must be upheld
discard the idea of "deserve"

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>>7275024
>>7275038
>For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now.

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I really don't get you system friendly dorks.
The internet ( the NEET's abode ) is a product of the abundance of capitalism. Our being lazy on it just shows the excessive leisure and quality of life our country provides.
If anything the success of capitalism will turn most jobs redundant. What is happening to cashiers is going to happen to your job very soon, especially the STEM god tier master race jobs.

Instead of extolling this, you idiots want to increase work hours because why? Because you're masochists? Is your fetish "the company's needs"?

Truly, I'm convinced most people are unable to take life as nothing but what mom and dad said it is.

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>>7275050
Fuck off and die red

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>>7275063

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>>7275050
>you can do whatever you want because I said you can

>>7275033
you've gone full retard if you think in any communism fantasy you don't have to work.

>>7275050
>just do it all by yourself
so easy and so practical. a couple billion backyard cattle farmers. I can't believe people take this shit seriously.

>>7274523
>tfw a new Rennaissance is just around the corner as 1 in every 1000 of the new generation of NEETS will be ambitious and curious enough to become a polymath
I don't think just having a large amount of non-workers is enough for a renaissance, it seems it's dependent on the psychological energy of the age, and perhaps different (non-democratic) social structures

>>7274633
commit crime

>>7275162
"Plato, in common with most Greek philosophers, took the view that leisure is essential to wisdom, witch will therefore not be found among those who have to work for their living, but only among those who have independent means or who are relieved by the state from anxieties as to their subsistence" History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russel page 110

>>7275193
>witch

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>>7275193
>or who are relieved by the state from anxieties as to their subsistence

>>7275193
yeah so

you can't be a wageslave and a creative genius but being NEET isn't enough to be a creative genius, and a large amount of NEETS does not guarantee a large amount of creative energy

>>7273228
>How does he do it?

He may not be living with his parents but rather in some low-end apartment on NEETbucks. So he isn't a direct drain on his immediate family, much easier to avoid guilt.

>>7274052
>this video.
Reddit has got to go.

To be honest, I just read this entire thread and I don't see the anti-NEETS make a single good argument.

Most of them have ultimately boiled down to
-namecalling /ad-hominem ("parasitic scum/basement dwellers")
-misplaced sense of pride ("we're the superior beings who drive society")

when their opinion is challenged by someone endorsing the NEET lifestyle.

For Anti-NEETS:
Give me ONE good reason how a "parasite" is different than the rest of the beings? A parasite is part of the system (much like in nature). It's a being that has found a DIFFERENT way to exploit the system. One that does not require hours and hours of toil and labor.
How is earning a wage and working at a job a fundamentally better lifestyle when it leaves you less time and energy for things that you like?


For NEETS:
Can you deny that earning a wage working at a job in a field of your interest will lead to a better quality of lifestyle?
I like programming. I get a job in which I program. I like my job AND I'm getting paid for it. The money that I get paid for doing the job I LIKE ends up financing my lifestyle which is much better in quality than that of a NEET. I can eat better food, live in better conditions, travel to better locations, have access to material things that otherwise might not be affordable to a NEET. And I still have the option of exploring literature and philosophy in my free time.

Moreover, a job in the field of my interest keeps my head working. It doesn't rot in laziness and complacency.

>>7275876
is functional programming a meme?

>>7274563
>Some people enjoy concerts/holidays/buying books
Ever heard about this thing called the internet? It's pretty great.

What are NEETs going to do once their parents die or the welfare checks stop coming?
Remember, down the road, not across the street. And take some aspirin.

>>7275927
>stop coming?

they won't

>>7275876
>Can you deny that earning a wage working at a job in a field of your interest
Well no, but
>implying I'm interested in anything that people will pay me to do

But if you find a job that requires extensive media consumption, traditional game playing, reading, sleeping, and eating, while also requiring absolutely NO personal charisma, let me know bb ;)

>>7275941
I won't stop coming as long as there is porn.

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>>7275876
>Moreover, a job in the field of my interest keeps my head working. It doesn't rot in laziness and complacency.
The only reason why you perceive it as that is because those people aren't earning money for how they spend their time. The "work" they do could very well be close to an actual job; take any discussion that happens on this site for example. If I wanted to discuss the Monogatari series on /a/, I would need to watch over 1500 hours (over a whole day), and counting, of animation, just to get the basic experience of it; I would also need to participate in the threads if I want to be "in" on the discussion, jokes, et c.; and that could require me to go through HOURS of arguments if I want to actually make a point to someone else. There's also a whole series of books; there's also the other serieses of books by the same author, and their respective adaptations. And this is just one anime series, there are hundreds of examples like this. I haven't gotten the chance to really get into fantasy books because all the ones I'm interested in are parts of a long series, and I simply don't have the time for it. The people that do "nothing" all day long, aren't laying around, they often keep up with a lot of things, it's just they're not obligated to and get nothing in return other than the satisfaction of what they do, so their time is somehow "wasted".

>>7275876
>better lifestyle when it leaves you less time and energy for things that you like?
>like
>implying anybodies actually a NEET and happy

>>7275972
>implying anybody is happy.

>>7275972
>>7275974
>Implying being is a quality and not an action.
>Implying you could be running all the time.

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calling it laziness, when its probably an happy and soft lifestyle its a bit sad

>>7275978
>implying you could be not running all the time

>>7275985
>Implying the state of running could exist without the state of not-running.

>>7275961

I really want to point out that you've chosen a very small portion of the multiple problems that I've raised in the post above.

However, I will attempt to show you why I don't agree with you.

There's a fundamental difference between production and consumption.
At a job, you produce/create. That itself is always a more challenging task than the act of consumption. It requires much more effort and energy.

The act of consumption of media (Specially stuff that I enjoy) is relatively devoid of any adversity or challenge.

Creating Manga/Anime will always be more challenging than reading/watching it.

Creating a piece of software will always be more challenging than using it.

Writing a great book will always be more challenging than reading it.

Despite you classifying what you do as "work", it isn't remotely as much "work" as the act of production.
That is why a NEET's personality/mind will rot. Lack of usage will lead to decline in mental acuity.

It is in the act of PRODUCTION that one finds the feelings of worth, satisfaction and achievement in a quality that you will not know by simply consuming media.

>>7275991
Why run when you can just ride on the back of the runners?

>>7275991
>implying what i implied.

>>7275997

Because the act of running provides more satisfaction, happiness and feelings of self-worth than being a sloth. It is a toil only for people not used to it.

There's a reason why people voluntarily have marathons. I bet the people who participate in them actually feel good about it.

>>7275876

To be honest, I just read this entire thread and I don't see the NEETS make a single good argument.

-Most of them have ultimately boiled down to
namecalling /ad-hominem ("wageslaves, wagecucks, capitalist slavepigs")

-misplaced sense of pride ("we're the superior beings who transcend cultural programming, we are brave for going against the flow")

>>7275876

>Work at job I love, still hard work
>Bust my ass every day
>Work is with people, has meaning
>Pay taxes every month
>Get home
>NEETs are calling me a cuck
>NEETs are calling me a slave
>NEETs are saying they're superior
>NEETs are spending the tax dollars I paid on cheetoz

>>7275996
>At a job, you produce/create
I agree with many of your points about production and consumption and satisfaction, but 'Production' and 'Job' are concepts completely independent of each other, even if they can often be found together.

I worked a job where I did nothing but water flowers for 6 hours, then throw away slightly unsightly flowers for 2. It was lazy and complacent and stupid and brain rotting to the extreme and I'm 100% serious when I say shitposting on 4chan produces more than anything that job ever accomplished.

>>7276018

I'm glad you brought that up. I don't condone pointless name-calling from either side of the argument. People who over use terms like "cucks" are the bane of this board.

However, I don't think the NEETS have a problem a misplaced sense of pride NEARLY as much as the people here who're anti-NEETS who seem to believe that they're superior beings. I insist that you go through this thread again and you'll realize the smug tone prevalent in each ant-NEET post.

Throughout this thread, the anti-NEETs (ones who're working in jobs) have shown a sense of superiority and pride while calling NEETS "degenerates"/ "lowlifes".

It's not uncommon for working people to look down on NEETS. However I believe that the NEETS here have brought up some legitimate points in JUSTIFICATION of their lifestyle which have not been countered that well.

>>7276033
>It was lazy and complacent and stupid and brain rotting to the extreme and I'm 100% serious when I say shitposting on 4chan produces more than anything that job ever accomplished.

In that case, I absolutely will not hesitate in asking you to quit that job.

And I admit that there is indeed a distinction between a job and the act of production. This is why I agree that I would probably prefer being a NEET than take a "job" that requires me to do a menial repetitive task which is more harmful to me than a purely hedonistic lifestyle.

That being said, I don't believe that ALL jobs can be dismissed like all the NEETS in this thread have been doing. My point about production/creation still stand.

NEETs are fine if they're the live-off-the-land, find fulfillment outside the system types. Most are not.

The NEET living in his parents' basement smoking a little weed and posting here is not okay. His drain on anyone besides maybe his parents is negligible. Anyone who's done that for more than a short while knows that it's no kind of life, though, for anything other than the very short term. Let's say a couple of months.

It's not fine because the individual seldom self-actualizes. It's so often a choice made out of fear, laziness, ignorance or even unmet needs/deprivation. I mean to say that it's a reaction more than it is a choice, and one with few positive outputs.

I've been that person, so I guess it strikes a nerve. To address OP, plenty of authors advocating hobo/migrant/live-off-the-grid lifestyles. Usually some truth to what the better ones are saying. It's been a long time since I read any, though. One of the most memorable described a sometime hitchhiker, sometime squatter who shoplifted from Wal Marts and home chains (Home Depot/Lowe's) across the midwest. Squatted in everything from a houseboat to a suburban house where the owners were still in residence. Memorable, if not worth emulating.

Something worthwhile needs to be happening in your day-to-day life (and if that really is just sitting in a room, meditating, so be it). NEETs have less options for that fulfillment to choose from, and aren't always in the wrong when they come up empty. Often, but not always.

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>>7275996
Your conception of "production" is pretty limited. Go read Ulysses then tell me it's not challenging, or marathon a film series and tell me it's not exhausting. Interpreting a work critically and aesthetically isn't an act of simple consumption, it requires concentration, reflection, different competences and time to do correctly. If you want to say something about what you've experienced that is yet another level, and how is that different from producing exactly? Would you say wine tasters or journalists don't work?

Sure, people don't need to put their thoughts out; but people don't live in a vacuum, and do reach for other people to see what they think of something. And even if they don't, by simply "consuming" on and on they will generate their own tastes by comparison of different works, meaning they will naturally become more critical and their enjoyment will be less and less passive. Just look around you, do people here passively consume things, or do they discuss, analyze, select, take sides? Right now I'm doing exactly that, how am I not "working"? I'm clearly making an effort and testing myself, just like I did when I marathoned an anime series a day for a whole week; it wasn't something simple, it required to select what I wanted to watch, set a schedule, then stop myself from doing anything else otherwise I wouldn't make it on time. And then how am I even sure I got everything correctly? How is this different from other forms of "work"? Say, would you call performance and sport a kind of production? Because then everyone back at /v/ is "producing" just by playing videogames (provided they do play them); where do you think things like "git gud" come from? Ever tried speedrunning or playing online competitively?

Yes, what you call production is often more intensive than what you call production, but that doesn't make them inherently different. Being a good watcher, a good judge, is as much of a skill as, and is in fact required to create, any other forms of art. Also, you conflate a NEET with someone who necessarily needn't produce, but that isn't the case at all; a NEET just doesn't have an official occupation.

I think you're widely underestimating the work that can go into some acts of consumption, and it really seems like a false dichotomy that you're setting up if you ask me. You assign value purely through effort, but effort is purely subjective, one can always try harder at doing anything.

>>7276078
Here's an account that seems similar to the one I was describing. Might not be quite what you were looking for, but enough NEET so far to appeal, and entertaining.

NEET apologists are often that for a reason, btw. Is often a condition caused at least partly by society (hikikomori, war/embargo, overpopulation, etc). NEETs still have to answer the question: what makes your life worth living?

Whether any kind of lifestyle is desirable is entirely dependent on the individual, obviously. I don't want to be NEET because I want a wife and, since I'm ugly, I don't have a fucking chance if I'm also poor.The question of whether it's immoral is interesting. Subjective opining from both sides on quality of life is useless.

>>7276179

Where i am from we don't have welfare...But i fit under those who you would call a NEET...my reasons for being this way, is i never found anything meaningful and the only way i can get away being the way i am is cuz i am financially well off.....i don't know how can you manage it otherwise

regarding what makes living worthwhile,i don't know...nothing most probably.....i stopped asking this when i was 18, now at 21 i often indulge in a hedonistic lifestyle.....My life isn't that much different than most of my frnds and relatives who have jobs.

Regarding changing my ways, i simply don't know how and why......i clearly don't see any point in it...I can live off the money and on top of that i am not even materialistic,which makes it even easier.

Only if my situation was different i might have changed my ways to earn a living.Maybe struggle and hardship even if it is meaningless, is the thing that makes our life worthwhile.

>>7274598
Sounds like a nice reward to me.

>>7276196

Enjoy being betabux, dude.

>>7274870
You know what you have to do to the land before you can do that?

>work

>>7275050
Huh. No wonder millions starved.

>>7276406
under marx? :^)

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>>7275876

If this the reality of how many NEETs think about their life then I wonder why there are still social transfers in form of money. Why don`t we let them die? It`s not like they contribute or deserve to live.

>>7272607

well I plan to work about five years and then glide on what I make somehow, maybe teach english abroad or something, we'll see how it works out

>>7276087
>but that isn't the case at all; a NEET just doesn't have an official occupation.
Nope. It is not about production but value. Things you "do" have no value to anyone, you might bring some value to the world by being a useless loser thought - everyone around you feel better about themselves when comparing to you.

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>>7276461
because of human rights

neets understand the game. Blame the game, not the players.

>>7274501
You should watch the video, it shows exactly how it's different this time around. Industrialisation and automatisation are different things.

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>>7276087
I'm not the guy, but I'll take the bait. You are devoid of any rational standard that would define work. The guy you are responding too also made a shitty argument, so its kinda his fault for pushing it in a wrong direction.

You can call anything work, from moving boulders up a hill to watching anime. What defines productive work is the value it has to society period. There are people out there that get paid for watching anime, since they are very knowledgeable on the subject and have the capacity to write about it (or make videos, or presentations) in manner that people find worthwhile to read. That is a job of a critic or a reviewer. He publishes his work to be consumed by people willingly paying money for that product. Perhaps a NEET indeed has a skill set necessary to do that, but instead of writing for Otaku magazine, he is wasting his talent and interest regarding anime on nothing.
This is true for everything. Work is not defined by a mere act of putting your energy out into this system. Work is act of spending your time and effort on PRODUCTIVE en devour. Productive in the sense that it ensures man's survival and self-preservation. Washing someones car may cost me a lot of energy but i will be rewarded with means to buy food and clothing; lifting weights may be really exhausting, but it will condition my body into becoming more able in the future. Spending 1000 hours playing pokemon on nintendo is a not a productive effort, since it does nothing help a NEET advance in life.

Entertainment is a big part of everyones life. It is a way of maintaining mental stability but it is not work. I really enjoy puzzle games and i spend a lot of time looking for sometimes very obscure solutions. I do it because i find it satisfing to solve a hard problem on my own, but i recognize i do not produce anything by doing that and i do not ask for a hand out for doing what I find worthwhile in that case. Dancing in a club burns lots of calories, but no one pays you for doing that and it IS NOT WORK. Anyone who says differently is too stupid to chew gum on walk at the same time.

Also NEET is a thief which is disgusting in its own right, but the biggest victim of NEETs lifestyle is the NEET himself since he is killing his self-esteem by not being productive, which is every persons fundamental source of satisfaction in life. Individual that is capable of securing his own livelihood, has the satisfaction and knowledge of self-determination. Parasite has no such thing and therefore he is a sub-human.

That is why i vote for politicians and file petitions towards the goal of completely abolishing ANY form of welfare(its becoming a real possibility in my country). NEETs should go to work or die of starvation for their own good.

>>7276461
this

I'd be NEET in a heartbeat if the amount of neetbucks given out was higher that it is. At present, it can't support my lavish lifestyle.
What do?

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who /cynic/ here?

>>7276600
I'm not hard enough to be a Cynic, to be honest.

I admire the Cynics the most, but I take more inspiration from the Epicureans and the Stoics in how I actually live.

>>7276593
>fundamental source of satisfaction
Literally a cult of production. Meh there are better religions with more satisfying fundamentals for me.

Is NEETdom the ultimate prerequisite for creating art?

>>7276554
I always preferred British versions of shows, like all the Gordon Ramsay shows and The Office.

>>7273352
he also mentioned 'excess cogs in the complex machinery of society.' As spooked as spooked can be.

>>7272626

Cats were critical in demousing when agriculture was still really really hard and thus cats have actually done more useful work towards supporting reaching modern human society.

In short, cats have earned it and we're still paying down the interest we owe them. Get over it dog lovers.

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>>7272656

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>not being an academic abroad
>implying

>>7276844
a lot better than working a shit job, even if it's not as good as having a job you enjoy. for people who are incapable of getting a job they like, this is not a bad deal really.

>>7276897
This. I have no ambition so it's basically being a NEET or moving boxes in a warehouse 40 hours a week.

I choose comfy shitposting.

>>7276897

Incapable? Doubt it. Equal opportunity employment laws are beautiful thing, if someone truly has the skills, large companies WILL hire.

>>7276909
He said a job they like, not just any job.

Why don't you NEETs run out of money?

I don't like having a job, but I like living in a nice apartment and being able to spend money on stuff.

>>7276931
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor."

i think the world would be a better place if everyone was neet tbh

>>7276936
Cuck

>>7276922
>He said a job they like, not just any job.

Jobs are either physical, mental, or social, generally. Skill can be improved in all of the above as long as one is not unable due to disability.

As someone who can build such skills, you can either work your way to the job you want if you throw yourself at it, or can settle, but it's almost always a choice.

In the case of disability it does make sense for someone to be NEET, but there are still several valid career options for someone who's homebound but willing to put the time in.

>>7276958
You're assuming that there is a desirable job for everyone. I've never desired any job. There is not a single job in the world that I think I would like more than having no job at all.

I'm sure there are more people like me, for who NEETdom is simply the best lifestyle choice.

>>7274483
Most of the job descriptions your gave are just applicable to people in marketing andere advertising. Those are then ones practically lying in your face andere trying to subconciously fuck you.

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>>7274483
Good point. Not having a negative influence is severely underrated.

>>7275050
I remember when I studied Marx, I was shaking in indignation that millions died over this.

The only way Marx is remotely plausible with stuff is if he was looking forward way further than he or anyone else at the time could justifiably predicted, to a point in time with actual post-scarcity where the productive capacity of individuals (by way of automation if it ever actually happens) genuinely is millions of times more than their consumptive capacity could ever be, and he just never really bothered to mention that "btw guys none of what I'm saying really applies unless you basically have automation of labour nailed down and a handful of guys actually working could produce enough to meet the needs of the entire world".

>>7274935
Dude in the suit looks fresh af tbh fam

>>7276993
>I remember when I studied Marx

things_that_never_happened.doc

>>7276958
lots of people work jobs they dont like, so obviously its not easy to find one you do like

>>7276936
But you need somewhere to live. You guys aren't living on the street. Do you just mooch off your parents or what?

>>7275050
Try to be a lawyer for one day without any experience.

>>7277009
You can have an apartment and enough money for necessities and some pleasures/luxuries on welfare in the more wealthy European countries.

>>7274525
There is a problem with that though, if 80% of the population stays home and masturbates to cartoons all day it means they're not doing a number of things that are necessary for the continuation of society, like having and raising kids (the vital few don't just come from the previous generation of the vital few, plenty of them have parents from the trivial many), having a positive influence on market forces (for example if everyone buys shit food there will be no market for good food and the few people who appreciate it will suffer), and not being an enormous burden to the state through medical care etc.

It's totally plausible to envisage a future where most people basically live a state-funded NEET life, but in return for the state providing that sustenance those people need to be required to improve themselves at least in as far that their lives affect others. NEET life in return for using your free time to live an enlightened NEET existence, acquiring taste you wouldn't have otherwise had time to develop, exercising and looking after your health, raising kids and giving them all the care and attention they need, etc.

>>7276679
Without question

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>>7277026
>tfw we'll have a greek renaissance when the robots become our slave class
>tfw spending your days working out and discussing philosophy with your fellow citizens

>>7276967
>>7277007
>>7276991


Not him, but why assume jobs are supposed to be desirable? You're trading time for capital you can use to do the things you actually want or care about. If you get hung up on the "it's not fun" part, you're missing the point: you work for what it lets you do.

There's the fun stuff. Buy video games, date girls, take vacations, hang out with friends, sky dive, eat good food, see skilled musicians. Or don't, stay at a home you bought and drink exotic coffee you bought online while masturbating to 60FPS HD 3D-filmed pornography

It can be for serious stuff. If you are family supported, if and when they die, you will be destitute. If you support yourself and if you live in America and hurt yourself in any appreciable way or get sick enough that you need real medical attention, you will not be able to afford care. If your teeth begin to hurt, you will be unable to afford fillings. Even if some government is truly willing to fully support you, If there's a disaster or large scale emergency, NEETs are literally always first to die because the support structure often doesn't have the tools to help people who can't help themselves and others once cared for.

It can be for personal reasons. Maybe you have some lofty ideals that say "enlightened NEETdom" pulls resources from individuals who truly need the help and thus is unethical. Maybe you don't like the idea of imposing yourself on your family like a parasite which would die if detached. Maybe the idea of being more or less personally autonomous appeals to you. Or maybe you just want to eventually be able to retire nicely, where technically you become a NEET while still having the capital and freedom of someone who works.

Maybe. But NEETdom doesn't allow any of the above. THIS is why people work, not because work is fun.

>>7274561
Think of it this way. The population only has so much capacity to demand; production beyond this point is wasted, as no one will ever consume it. For example, imagine we reached the point where we were producing more food than the population of the world could ever actually eat. Production above the maximum that can be consumed is pointless, and we can consider that cap on possible consumption to be the target that society should aim to produce.

With information technology and automation of labour, it becomes increasingly possible for that cap to be reached without employing more than a portion of the workforce. In this situation, if you have more than, say, 10% of people in work, then all the people outside that 10% are just doing busywork. In fact, if they weren't busy working they could be consuming instead and help push up the cap.

That's the thing here: consumption is actually quite important to society, and if you don't give people money to spend on stuff then demand collapses and everything goes to shit. The productive person who gets taxed is paying for there to be someone to buy the stuff he's producing. Sure, that unproductive fuck could very well be working but he wouldn't be contributing anything and he'd be hindering the vital few from producing as much as possible. Once all the work has already been done, the best thing that unproductive fuck can do is be a consumer.

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>>7276593
>You are devoid of any rational standard that would define work.
That's because there's no rational standard for work. You've admitted yourself that any occupation can be monetized, so what standard can there be? You try to excuse all work as productive, but it isn't necessarily, and the question of what we will do once automimatisation takes most of the jobs required for humanity's survival has been raised in this very thread. So what do you think will happen? I really doubt people will start killing themselves en masse if/once NEETdom because the norm, the only reason NEETs feel the way they do is because they're excluded from society, not because they haven't fulfilled some essential goal in life.

>the biggest victim of NEETs lifestyle is the NEET himself since he is killing his self-esteem by not being productive, which is every persons fundamental source of satisfaction in life.
Then the problem is in the idea, not the person. If we got rid of that idea then wouldn't the NEET be happy? Why do you insist on a worldview that will necessarily make things more difficult for you?

>Individual that is capable of securing his own livelihood, has the satisfaction and knowledge of self-determination.
This is total bullshit and you know it.

>>7276993
>The only way Marx is remotely plausible with stuff is if he was looking forward way further than he or anyone else at the time could justifiably predicted, to a point in time with actual post-scarcity
As far as I know this is roughly how the Bolsheviks first diverged from the Marxist conception of historical necessity, in exploiting the destabilized state of post-revolution Russia to put their vanguard party in power and from there attempt to accelerate or ensure the progress towards communism

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>>7277058
It all comes down to what you value the most. I value freedom from obligation more than riches and entertainment, so I choose not to work. That's not to say I wouldn't like to have more money, but not to the degree that I would sacrifice half of my waking hours to achieve it. I am NEET in order to be free and not having a lot of money is a sacrifice I'm willing to make in exchange. To be free from obligation is the next greatest thing to being free from want, at least to me.

All philosophy is the forcing of the speaker's personality on others.

Nothing more.

>>7276821
what's it like not having friends or getting invited to social events

>>7277630
*All language

>>7277050
Have you met people? That bullshit fantasy is not going to happen.

>>7277738
Sure, the vast majority of people has always been plebs and will continue to be plebs when they don't have to work. But universal unemployment will also free up the kind of people actually interested in the good life.

>>7275961
Consuming media and discussing it with your friends does not count as sufficient work.

>>7277722

I don't know, you tell me.

>>7277730
Not all interaction can be categorized in degrees of "force".

>>7277722
It's a relief, really.

>>7276821
>cats have actually done more useful work towards supporting reaching modern human society.
This is what catfags actually believe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog#Lupification_of_humans

NEETs: why are you so selfish?

>>7277797
We make no demands on others.

>>7277745
except the greeks were a nation with aristocratic warrior-values and we're a civilization with democratic capitalist-values, there's not really any structure supporting a renaissance

maybe we'll get a renaissance in science fiction and video games

>>7277802

Who pays your rent, food and assorted goods?

>>7277810
I do.

>>7277781
Tell that to professional critics.

>>7277797
How are they selfish? Because they refuse to put up with the exploitation others do for no good reason?

>>7277817
>Tell that to professional critics.

They usually get pissy when you tell them their work is pointless.

>>7272626
Cats lack the ability to be happy, so why should we praise something that does nothing and still isn't happy whereas dogs do a bunch of shit and are always happy?

Dogs think everything is done for fun. To train a dog, you have to trick it into thinking it's playing a game. Cats don't even like to have fun.

>>7272894
You sound like you're really happy.

>>7277832
If you think happiness is the overall goal, good luck with that.

>>7273807
Possibly the most concise thing Fuller ever wrote

>>7277841
Most (many?) people think that obedience brings happiness.

>>7277823
Like most everyone; because all of them are pointless.

>>7277854
Blue collar work has tangible production. Almost countless examples of this.

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>>7277832
You are the reason cats aren't happy

>>7277875
Cats are happy when they are evil.

>>7277797
You're mistaken. There is a lack of jobs these days. By staying home I don't compete with some family man who actually needs the money.

Also, by accepting money from the government and spending it I'm injecting tax money into local businesses and serving the community.

Consuming is our foremost duty these days as first worlders, production is becoming a minority endeavour.

>>7277846
And you're proof that a lack of it still doesn't guarantee happiness either. Nice false dichotomy.

>>7277892
>believing happiness exists

lol

>>7277863
>production
>not pointless

>>7277906
Please provide better bait, I'm hungry; with taste.

>>7277910
I'm sorry but that's all we serve here, sir.

t. life

>>7277915
I'm glad I didn't eat it.

I'd rather eat my own shit.

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>>7277931
>implying you can eat anything other than your own shit

>>7277887
This.

Just by living NEETs are contributing to society. The fact that they need food and water to live means they are buying products, which means they are consuming, which is just as fundamental to maintaining the current society we have as production.

We already overproduce, so we don't need them producing in the first place.

>NEET thread
>305 posts, 123 posters

4chan everybody.

>>7278124
le deep

>>7272656
best shit I've read today

>>7272828
haha nigga I'm 20

Hunter S ain't got shit on me

>>7272708

But they don't, so NEETs can just exploit them LMFAO.

>>7273873

Why not just assume it exists without evidence LOL?

>>7273527
Don't know if you'll see this, but I'll post anyway. I think it can be interesting for everyone.

If a modern market economy is to have wage levels that are competitive in comparison to other countries, the optimal level of unemployment is 5%. Because of this, it is a stated, but not loudly mentioned, policy goal to keep unemployment at around 5%.


Seeing how this is the case I think it's absurd to lay blame on the unemployed for being lazy, when in fact they are filling up a function in capitalist society.

In the United states, and probably large parts of the world, it's basic political misdirection to bait the lower classes to battle each other over trivial issues. You don't have time to think about the stock portfolio wielding upper classes if you are occupied with fighting the "muslim invasion of Europe".

>>7274259
this sounds nice

The only real job I had was working 4 hours a day at an after school club¨

I lived with my mum so I had my entire 1000€ salary to waste on food, drugs and alcohol

It feels ideal

>>7274525
what do you do for a living?
or are you studying, do you have any cool ambitions that can make you a vital few

>>7274810
That would be genius shit.

Instead of revolution, the working classes would all have one child, which would mean a small work pool where the workers better can dictate the terms.

>>7274961
upvoted my firend

>>7274540
nice retort faggot

Obligation gives one the excuse to make masochism a habit.

>>7276078
Don't bring the plant into this why are you talking about neets smoking reefer and not jobHolders smoking some reefer?

>>7276397
So I thought this NEET thing meant you were not working in the sense of not having an official job. if we mean by neet someone who can not engage in any form of effort like working the land to grow food then sure they wont make it without someone to take care of them. I think the case is not having an official job so this does not stop a neet from growing their own food.

>>7275876
>Moreover, a job in the field of my interest keeps my head working. It doesn't rot in laziness and complacency.
There are jobs that let workers head rot in laziness and complacency and being a neet doesnt mean you are rotting in those. you can create and produce as a neet. Having a job and creating/producing are seperate things

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>>7277318
>You try to excuse all work as productive
No I'm not read my post again. YOU are the one that tries to do that. The standard for productive work is as simple as it can be. If something benefits you and helps you survive or develop yourself it is productive work. Watching anime is not productive work unless utilize that experience to bring you some benefits, by creating value for some people.
In other words productive work is what PAYS.
>muh subjectivism
>cant define a standard
>other things take just as much effort
No one gives a shit. If people aren't willing to give you money for what you do, then you don't deserve it. Market is defined by wants of the people, so make what people need or perish.

>what we will do once automimatisation takes most of the jobs
First of all that will not happen. You are blind and ignorant about technology if you think this kind of thing is fathomable right now. I work in engineering, me peers from academia do research on this stuff. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. We do not have the technology or money to do that. Agriculture, construction, mining EVERYTHING is too complicated a system, with too many unpredictable changes. Machines are not able to handle that.

Even if we magically created robots that can do all the physical tasks, fruits of that labor will still be owned by corporations that invented and constructed the robots and rightfully so. Labor market will then move to material science, algorithm analysis and the massive chain of work that would be needed to keep those machines up and running. There will never be a moment where MACHINES CAN DO EVERYTHING NOW. This is not how economy works and this is not how entropy works. You are too isolated from real world or never had contact with any sort of engineering problem if you think that way.

>Then the problem is in the idea, not the person. If we got rid of that idea then wouldn't the NEET be happy?
No because he deserves to feel like shit, because he is a thief and a parasite. A human being as an individual has a need to feel productive. You can deny that as much as you want but the fact is people that are not able too keep themselves by their own effort are miserable and one look at /r9k/ is all you need. I had friends that were NEETs in the past and i know from autopsy how depressed and worthless not having control over your own life makes you feel, because human beings are biologically programmed to enjoy fruits of their labor it is one of our basic instincts to entertain control over our environment. That is why minecraft is so popular tbh.
A person that lives on welfare is not a human being, he is a slave. The moment that government won't give him money is the moment he will die and he knows that, therefore nothing secures his existence on earth. He is hanging by a thread in the emptiness that is his life, devoid of any point of reference that would give meaning to his existence.
NEETs deserve to die, because they are parasites - completely worthless.

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>>7279410
>If something benefits you and helps you survive or develop yourself it is productive work.
Except "benefit" is a really unespecific term. Does working myself to death benefit me? Sure, it is productive according to your definition, but benefitting? Not really. And you're still omitting my point on taste; does this conversation have no value to you? Do I not develop in some way just by watching movies as I have already exemplified?

>If people aren't willing to give you money for what you do, then you don't deserve it.
The difference between getting money and not is breath thin. Does a conman deserve what he has according to you?

>Market is defined by wants of the people, so make what people need or perish.
And the wants of the people are constantly changing and getting more complex. Necessity is completely relative.

>There will never be a moment where MACHINES CAN DO EVERYTHING NOW. This is not how economy works and this is not how entropy works.
Why not exactly? I'm not talking about current machines, but what could a human do that a very advanced AI couldn't?

>No because he deserves to feel like shit, because he is a thief and a parasite.
How is he a thief in a world that produces more food than we need, where most everyone has access to the things he enjoys dirt cheap? How is he malignant to the system if he's capable of mantaining his quality of life by parents, welfare, or whatever other means, without being a hidrance to anybody?

>A human being as an individual has a need to feel productive.
Not really. Maybe we do have a need to feel occupied, but that is not the same thing as being productive.

>I had friends that were NEETs in the past and i know from autopsy how depressed and worthless not having control over your own life makes you feel,
Yeah, it has all to do with not working at a 7/11 and NOT being completely alienated. They should just get a job and that will solve everything, getting more and more shit they don't want because everyone tells them they should and should want it, sure is going to make them happy and fulfilled. Because they're completely devoid of any enjoyment whenever they partake on their hobbies and don't only get deppressed at how fucking alienated they are from a society that doesn't give one damn about the people that partake in it, let alone those who don't. It's them that are wrong, not the people killing themselves over a bunch of numbers.

>>7279410
>because human beings are biologically programmed to enjoy fruits of their labor it is one of our basic instincts to entertain control over our environment. That is why minecraft is so popular tbh.
Sure, but there's no inherent relation to monetization. I can be fulfilled with something without getting money for it, people do it all the time. So why do you insist on shaming the NEETs for something that is purely a social convension? If two people do the same thing, and one is payed for it and the other isn't, what makes the second one worse than the first?

>A person that lives on welfare is not a human being, he is a slave. The moment that government won't give him money is the moment he will die and he knows that, therefore nothing secures his existence on earth.
Holy shit, you really think you're free or something? Hint, pal: you're just as much of a slave as anybody else, and according to your own standards, the second you're not needed, you can go die; the same loathing you direct to NEETs will be turned on you the second you stop producing. Integration into a system isn't freedom, it's the antonym of freedom; it is NEETs that are free, it's just freedom isn't necessarily a good thing y'see.

>He is hanging by a thread in the emptiness that is his life, devoid of any point of reference that would give meaning to his existence.
You make a whole bunch of assumptions there.

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>>7279552
Humans are not a closed system, they need food and energy to live. If NEETs would be cut off from their stolen money they would have to find a job, or they would very quickly starve and die. That is all there is to it. They are thieves. They live off stolen property of people more productive than them. Objectively they are parasites and subhuman trash.

>conman
This is not volountary transaction, conman is living of making false promises, he is a thief. Just like a NEET.

>Necessity is completely relative.
yeah. so what? Skills that neet has right now might be valuable 1000 years from now, so what? He is still worthless now.

>Why not exactly? (machines)
Short answer: Because second law of thermodynamics. Its a topic for a fucking book, im not gonna discuss it anymore. It makes no difference to this discussion. THERE WILL NEVER BE POST-SCARCITY

>How is he malignant to the system if he's capable of mantaining his quality of life by parents, welfare, or whatever other means, without being a hidrance to anybody?

He is a hidrance, because he lives off property of other people that wasn't given to them volountarily. Thats why welfare needs to be abolished so those people just die off.

everything else:
>bah bah just numbers, money is social convention, resources don't exist, being a loser and living off accomplishments of my parents and other people is nothing to be ashamed about. everything is subjective. Neets are not sad fucks, they are actually happy free people even thou they will starve the second that the government will disable welfare or their parents will get tired of keeping them alive. B-b-being a tapeworm is true freedom dude.

You don't know what money is, you don't know how economy works. You are jumping to conclusions about consumerism and spewing leftist rhetoric. Humans need food and shelter to survive and there is nothing you can do about that. And to get food and shelter you either hunt, gather and build on your own. Or you get employed and buy it from people that do it instead of you.
NEET is a thief and a moocher. He exploits the system until system will get tired of him. You can play around with fake concepts all you want but those are objective facts of reality.

Your narrative is bullshit. You paint a picture of neet as if he was an individual that lives the life that he chooses. I have a friend that spend most of his time watching anime at home, but he lived on his own expense. He actually dives into trash bins to get food, and works 3-4 days a month to pay rent. That i can respect and understand, since he can pay for himself. But anyone who sucks on welfare money is scum and will die when day of the rope comes. Thief is always a thief.

>>7279704
You're not discussing literature.

>>7279704
>If NEETs would be cut off from their stolen money they would have to find a job, or they would very quickly starve and die.
You do understand this could be said about most everyone in our society.

>Skills that neet has right now might be valuable 1000 years from now, so what? He is still worthless now.
Except they can very easily be made valuable, that's my point.

>Short answer: Because second law of thermodynamics.
What, how the fuck does this answer anything man? Come on, at least try to give some sort of answer. Yes, all systems fail eventually; how does this make a system of humans prefferable to a system of machines, or impossible? It's a simple question.

>You paint a picture of neet as if he was an individual that lives the life that he chooses.
I paint nothing. I never said a NEET's life needs to necessarily be happy or not; you did. I never said freedom was good or bad; you did. Where did I say NEETs have a choice? Nowhere, because they don't. Nobody does. Everything we do is determined by our surroundings, and you, I, or the hypothetical NEET aren't excempt. If you can't see how control is an illusion, and you can't stop identifying with an ideology and making values accordingly, that's your deal. Don't put words in my mouth, and don't call other people slaves when you can't even see how much of a puppet you yourself are.

I mean, do you really believe the people you picture are happy? Do you really think they wouldn't choose a normal life if they could? Are you really this blind? Can't you see how they're a symptom? No, you'll just keep spouting shit at people who're in a situation you yourself consider is horrible... because it's easier than actually trying to understand what's happening to them and how to fix, let alone help them. Seriously, you're willing to throw someone into the fire for not earning a couple of bucks, look at yourself!

There are several categories of NEET's: The ones that end up like that because of some mental issues, or Bitter cynics who just don't care about society and keep their interests within their ''price range'' like jackin' to hentai 24/7 or some shit. But the worst are the ones that do it with no ideological intent or lack of a stable mind. These cunts just have bad patterns of behavior, they are lazy and filthy and stupid, they can't or won't think about their future. About the whole ''don't be a leach, be a productive member of society'' shit, its nonsense deluded people say to feel superior to the NEET's, but this doesn't change the fact that this specific category of NEET is impotent. The anti wagecuck shitposters use the argument that you will have a shitty and stressful life if you move out, get a job etc... But in reality their own life is as stressful, they just ignore the progress of time decaying their dumb brain where in the ''wagecuck'' is aware of it but in the stereotype propagated by the shitposters he makes bad decisions and can't find a way to get ahead. It doesn't matter though, if you can play the system to your advantage and make good decisions, you'll have money and security in your life, it all boils down to stupidity and impotency. Fuck it, just kill yourself.

>>7277846
Discipine brings happiness.
Seaching for freedom, without realizing you have absolute freedom, leads to paralysis.