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are there any epic fantasy/scifi series that don't suck

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are there any epic fantasy/scifi series that don't suck dick?

pick unrelated, just finished book 3 and put it down. fuck robert jordan.
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>>6234364
Well, it's not exactly epic but I guess the Night Lords series by Dembski-Bowden is pretty cool. The Soul Drinker series is more conventionally epic, albeit falling a bit short on writing. Now, they aren't the best thing ever to be written, but if you like the genre (and are game for some pulpy, grimdark writing) you can give them a go.
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>>6234364
I began the 4th book, and but dropped it after an hour or so.

Fuck the Waste of Time. Even if it gets good, no book should take SEVEN fucking books to do so. That's how long I've heard it takes, and there's, what, FOURTEEN total?

Anyway OP, Book of the New Sun is bretty gud. The writing is actually interesting, and there's more to it than just "I wanted badly to take off my boots and rest, and to have a warm mean"
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Give me your email and I'll send you something.
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>>6234385
Actually, the first 4 are considered the best in the series alongside book 12. Books 7 through to 10 are usually considered to be steaming piles of shit.

For fantasy Book of the New Sun and Farseer are the best, though they're not very epic. New Sun is a dreamlike journey with excellent writing and Farseer is a character driven drama. For something truly epic on a grand scale, try Malazan Book of the Fallen or Stormlight Archives. Mileage may vary for those two.

For scifi, check out Hyperion.
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>>6234773
>Book of the New Sun
>fantasy
>actually recommending Malazan Book of the Fallen
>Hyperion too
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>>6234364
What didn't you like about WoT, and what would you want to see in an epic series?
>>
The modern usage of the word "Epic" has nothing to do with it's traditional usage.

Right now it's an excuse to make a plot as rigid and overloaded with stale troupes and cliches as possible in order to fit the reader's notion of what an epic story ought to have.
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>>6234364
No, there aren't.
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>>6234773
9 is good actually

also i'd say 2 through 5 is the peak of the series, 1 is kinda lame

anyway, though, epic fantasy is mostly bad & 80% of the reason I like WoT is just that I started reading it when I was about 12
>>
Sure. Lord of the Rings.
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Malazan Book of The Fallen is the definition of epic fantasy. As if the author just took the genre and pushed it to its limit.

Just keep in mind that the first book in the series was written 10 years prior to the second, and in that gap Erikson became a significantly better writer. The difference in quality is quite extreme in my opinion.
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>>6234364
Zelazny's first Amber series is what you are looking for.
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>>6235502
how did he push the genre to the limit?
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>>6234517
Nobody wants your Harry Potter-Twilight crossover fanfiction
>>
Dune
Lord of the Rings
HHGTTG (not an epic, whatever)
Game of Thrones
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>>6234773
Farseer is absolutely disgusting

Stormlight is good though
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>>6235519
Can't tell whether genuine question or condescending remark. Clear up this confusion and I shall address your query, sire.
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>>6235679
i doubt i'll ever read him, his books are too long, but as a wannabe fantasy writer, i do like to hear people's opinions on what makes books good.
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>>6235530

Leave now, /tv/ normalfag.
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>>6235694
Ah, okay, wonderful... Well... Where to begin?

Erikson is an archeologist and an anthropologist. This shows heavily in his world. His universe is absolutely gigantic, spanning multiple continents riddled with magical realms. Every place is thick with history, the ground beneath every building is layer upon layer of civilizations that came and went, burial sites hide ancient, immortal creatures from times that have been forgotten or distorted by time and the subjective nature of history.

The sense of wonder you feel when reading is unmatched by anything else. His is truly a fleshed out world.

Literal Gods walk the earth, powerful enough to shatter entire continents. Ascendants can transform into giant dragons, swords are imbued with pocket universes in which those slain by said swords are imprisoned for eternity. He seems to follow the Diablo rule of not being afraid of massively overpowered characters and forces; if something is awesome, it stays. And he deals with the consequences of it -- people who've lived for millennia, since the beginning of time itself battle eachother in a never ending game of power, wrecking havoc on the mortal world in the process; most Gods consider mortals mere pawns to use and discard. But even so they depend entirely on mortals, it's from the ordinary people, the worshippers, that the Gods derive their power.

So if the Gods are this terrible, why do people keep worshipping them? These kinds of questions are everywhere.

POV characters are both superpowered demi-god killing machines and impoverished peasants and hopelessly romantic teenagers. Every aspect of life is dealt with in some way. More than anything, it's a tale of how people deal with the senseless cruelty of an indifferent universe, a story on the importance of compassion and the perils of certainty.

It's utterly impossible to give it an adequate description. The only thing I can say is that if you enjoy massive, sprawling epics, then look no further. This is, so far, the end all be all of EPIC fantasy. In every sense of the word. The scale of the world, of the plot, the struggles associated with being a thinking creature... etc...

It has everything you could want in a fantasy story: Cloak and dagger assassin action, massive armies clashing, magic on an unprecedented scale, political intrigue, romance, explorations of the human condition. Everything.

And to top it all off, he's just a damned good writer. The only two authors that have ever brought me to tears are Nabokov and Steven Erikson -- they're both masters of tragedy in their own ways.

If you aspire/fantasize about becoming a fantasy writer, then you HAVE to read this series. Not doing so is equal to wanting to become a chemist without learning the periodic table.

Pic related: It's a flying, hollow mountain used by prehistoric, cognizant pseudo-dinosaurs as a city... And this does not even scratch the surface of the beautiful insanity that is this series.
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>>6235715
I'm not going to apologize for not being well versed enough in fantasy trash.
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>>6235762

I won't explain, but I'll break it you: Malazan is bad. Quite bad.
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>>6235762
I should add this:

It's important to understand that he is very much unlike other fantasy others in that he does absolutely no hand-holding. You're just thrown into the middle of the action with no clue what the fuck is going on. In the beginning nothing makes any sense -- but stick with it. The more you read, the more it begins to make sense. It's like a puzzle where you have to find the pieces yourself. He never straight up tells you what's going on or why. In this way, I guess, you could say he's the antithesis of Brandon Sanderson.

Just don't lose your motivation; you're not meant to understand any of it at first. But you will if you continue.
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>>6235773
Well then. That's a very useful comment.
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>>6235773
You did not just destroy a poster's (whose time they METICULOUSLY spent writing an entire paragraph of non-sequitur sentences to justify in total conclusion to a point of absolute NECESSARY justification - mark me, sir, NECESSARY JUSTIFICATION - without being asked mind you - for the purpose of informing) dream.

Shame become you.
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>>6235788
I had a total of 2 hours of sleep last night, I'm high, and I've yet to have my coffee -- your post makes almost zero sense to me. I think you just broke my brain.
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>>6235788
I had a total of 2 hours of sleep last night, I'm high, and I've yet to have my coffee -- your post makes almost zero sense to me. I think you just broke my brain.
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>>6234364

Any good epic fantasy SERIES? ...nope, sorry.

if you want some good stand-alones, though, try 'The Worm Ouroboros' or 'The Broken Sword'. both are well-written, and predate lotr.
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>>6234364

Elric
Chronicles of Amber

Jordan a Shit.
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>>6234773
Book of the New Sun is something you recommend to someone who wants to read something more like Joyce or Proust, it isn't epic and it isn't fantasy.
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>>6235762
thanks. maybe i will try his 2nd book sometime.
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>>6235856
It's easy to recommend BotNS to a fantasy reader, as even if you disagree with the fantasy/"science fantasy" categorization, it shares many of its trappings. Just because there's more than meets the eye doesn't mean it is out of place in a fantasy discussion.

That said, it's true that it definitely doesn't belong in an epic fantasy discussion.

>>6235607
W-w-what?
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>>6235607
What's wrong with Farseer? Yes, it's a little generic, but it has some of the best characterisation I've seen.
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>>6235856
>it isnt fantasy

Are you retarded? Even Gene Wolfe himself calls it fantasy. There is no discussion.
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>>6234385
>"I wanted badly to take off my boots and rest, and to have a warm mean"
This is from the Wheel of 4chan isn't it?
Or would that be a warm meme?
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>>6235762
Well then, I feel compelled to start the second book after reading this. I finished Gardens about a year ago and remember most things in it but not all of them. If you could name a few things that are important to take away from it, what would they be? I don't feel like re-reading the entire book.
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you people need to get over yourselves. Some of us like jetpacks and ion cannons.
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>>6238154
Everybody does, they're just too insecure to admit it.
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>>6235762
Excellent write-up, thank you. I will read this series just because you wrote this (not joking)
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Daily reminder that if you read anything other than J.R.R. Tolkien or Richard Adams in terms of fantasy, you're pants on head retarded.
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>>6238242
>Daily reminder that if you read anything other than J.R.R. Tolkien
Why do people think this?

Tolkien is terrible. I wasn't even able to make it through the trilogy because of how bad it was. Now, I've heard Simarillion is good, but Tolkien is not a good fantasy writer; I don't care if he was the first, or whatever he is
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>>6238258
>terrrible bad not good
what's your argument? why do you think he doesn't measure up? who are you comparing him to?
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>>6238334
>what's your argument?
I will post mine as soon as you post yours
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>>6234364
The Discworld series?
Dragonlance?
Patrick Rothfuss?
Isaac Asimov?
Dune?
ASOIAF? Although lit hates it with passion
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>>6235762
Thanks for writing all that. I was planning on reading Malazan after i finish The Black Company series and you have just convinced me even further.
How do you think it compares to The Black Company by the way? I heared it's pretty similar, but even better.
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>>6238258
>I don't care if he was the first

He wasn't. Not even close.

Hell, he wasn't even that original. Sure, he tapped a few new influences (Wagner, Beowulf, etc), and indulged in a tiresome amount of world building, but that's pretty much it.
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>>6235762
Usually I dislike High Magic but hot damn, this sounds dense
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>>6235762
HAIL THE MARINES!
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>>6238803
Malazan is essntially Black Company on steroids. Erikson was very influenced by Cook.
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>>6238420
nah i don't really care about your opinions that much
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>>6238114
>>6238114

Tor.com has a "Malazan re-read of the Fallen" series you could try. They summarize each chapter, and follow up with commentary from two hosts, one of whom is new to the series. The commentary isn't spoilery if I remember correctly, but the user comment section is a minefeild.

I read GotM about a year ago and recently decided to continue the series (just started Memories of Ice), my plan was to use the reread to refresh my memory and then start Deadhouse Gates. I found it so helpful/compelling I ended up reading GotM again and enjoyed it even more the second time.
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>>6239968
I ended up re-reading the last four chapters of Gardens to refresh my memory about that clusterfucky-everything-is-happening-at-the-same-time-ending that is the wrap-up of the book.

I'll look over the re-read piece though, thanks for pointing it out.
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Another vote for Malazan. I really liked that you were just plunged into the story with no explanation. By the time you are half way through the book you realize it was all on purpose! Battling armies trying to seize a well developed city without destroying its infrastrucure,, ninja-like spies going around killing people, a character playing two roles so separate that it is hard to place it till he leaves at the end.

It all converges at a garden party where all he different stories come together. Some resolve themslves (like a bombing planned outside the garden wall, an assasination a theft) and many are not.

The second book sold me though. That chain of dogs made me emotional. A wagon train of war refugees fleeing through inhospitable lands including deserts and beseiged on all sides constantly. Tha desperation, that fear, tha starvation, infighting, stray dogs and former pets joining alongside the warriors. It gave me some trail of tears feels.
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Evangeline Waltons adaptation of the The Mabinogion
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>>6238682
>Dune
>Isaac Asimov
>Epic Fantasy

What?
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>>6235519
He made his immortal characters 300,000 years old instead of only 3,000 years old.

Truly a visionary.
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I liked Black Company until they came to India. It's unreadable as of book 7. Gene Wolfe is an amazing writer. Any good essays on his literary style and methods?
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Are there any good series that aren't grim dark for the lulz (like asoiaf)?
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I liked First Law series. Mostly for inquisitor's line.
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So are there any Urban Fantasy series that are not twilight-tier landwhale written female protag YA "he put his dick in my vagina" trash?

I swear to god 99% of this genre is disgusting
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>>6241103
China Mieville writes borderline sf/urban fantasy which is pretty cool.
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Kingkiller's Chronicles by Rothfuss
Dune ofc as well
stuff that doesnt devolve into stereotypes really
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>>6241103
Vurt by Jeff Noon is great
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>>6234364
No.
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>>6235781
>he does absolutely no hand-holding. You're just thrown into the middle of the action with no clue what the fuck is going on.
I like this.
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>>6241103
People like Dresden Files, I didn't really enjoy the first two that much, to which I usually hear that it picks up around 3 or 4, but I have enough to read without clogging up my to-read pipeline with what feels to me like mediocrity (then again, I'm no fan of fantasy in general)

Maybe you'll like it?
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>>6241167
Bard smith magician man in rothfuss is a Mary sue on par with bella
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>>6234773
>Hyperion
STFU the fuck up.

>>6235762
I've read the first four books but I don't plan to complete the series. Honestly have too much other stuff to read that is more appealing. Could you tell me how the full story ends? Also, if you wish to specify on one character, my favorite character/concept was Itkovian, the Shield Anvil. I know he becomes 'reincarnated' but that's all.

>>6238682
>Rothfuss
No. No more words wasted on what filth his writing is.
>>
After reading
>>6235762
I decided to read these series, the description seemed fascinated.

But after reading
>>6235773
I changed my mind. Thanks for saving me from taking up reading a shitty book!
I'm not even sarcastic.
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>>6242089
>seemed fascinated
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>>6242161
That was either an autocorrect or a brain fart.
But if there are any more mistakes, that's because my English is shitty. No point in pointing out the obvious. You fag.
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>>6241061
I loved the First Law books. I wish the writing was better in the first book though. You can see his writing getting better every book he writes.
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I want to find more low magic series
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>>6243034
>you replied/10
i win
>>
Earthsea Quartet by Le Guin
WoT really isn't that bad as a whole and the creation of the world is fantastic
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>>6238682
rothfuss is GARBAGE. Pretentious prose. Shit-tier characterization. Terrible characters.

Sanderson is one of the few non shit-tier fantasy writers alive. No mary-sues, no shitty self-inserts. Magic systems that are thought-out, expansive plots in an expansive world.

The only valid criticisms of his writing that I've heard are that his romances are sterile and his "witty" dialogue is lame. Both reasonable complaints. Sanderson is also a conservative mormon and his writing reflects that - no sex and light on the edginess.

He writes very quickly, minimum of one book a year. His writing has definitely improved from when he first started out - some of his early works are mediocre. Pic related is one of his best, and is the first in a 10 book saga that will be considered a genre fiction classic.
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>>6244766
>Sanderson is also a conservative mormon and his writing reflects that - no sex and light on the edginess.
Worth checking out then. Best Fantasy writers are always religious
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>>6244766
I tried reading WoK, but the writing, characters, and world were all mediocre and the whole thing was too fucking long.

The best I can say is that he's not as bad as Rothfuss.
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>>6244766
>tfw we get two new mistborn books within six months because he accidentally a sequel to the sequel he was writing
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>>6244918
I'm too lazy to google. Please tell me about this. Wasn't he done with Mistborn after that forth (extra) book?
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Maybe Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn by Tad Williams. Reading it now in leisure time and think they are at least entertaining.
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>>6244766
>'Magic systems'
This is where I stopped reading your post and recognized you for the idiot that you are.
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>>6236516
Just because I bake a cake and call it an omelette doesn't make it an omelette.
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Doesn't one of the Malazan books have a group of nomads being chased, and their general is a genius or some shit? Trying to remember what series I heard about that for
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>>6241061
The Heroes/Red Country were fucking awesome
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>>6234364
Th Belisarius Series by Eric Flint and David Drake.
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>>6234948

Care to elaborate why you so matter of factly have dismissed The Malazan Book of The Fallen?
>>
Hyperion as always
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>>6245486
Alloy of Law will have four books in its series total. AoL came out a couple years back and two sequels are out soon, as well as whenever the fuck he writes the fourth.

AoL itself wasn't even going to be a thing at first. The original Mistborn trilogy is the first in a trilogy of Mistborn trilogies. He was never done with Mistborn after Alloy and I have no clue where you heard that from.
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Is the Greatwinter trilogy worth reading?
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>>6244766
Barnes & Noble gave me WoK for free, so surely it can't be as good as you say.
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In what order should I read Malazan? According to pic related I should read Deadhouse Gates after Gardens, but this re-read of the fallen from Tor.com suggests reading Night of Knives after Gardens. Any suggestions/opinions?
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>>6235511
Mah nigga.

Second Amber series is also really good, but a lot of people jump right into it after finishing Corwin's tale and get all pissy because WHEN YOU CHANGE THE PROTAGONIST IN A FIRST PERSON NARRATIVE YOU ALSO CHANGE THE NARRATOR OMGHERESYEXTERMINATUS!

Sorry, where was I? Zelazny. Zelazny's the shit.

Heinlein's also fun if you aren't a butthurt political football fan who can't enjoy a work of fiction exploring alternative viewpoints. Much of his work is set in the same timeline, just different places and times, not to mention the later works that tie everything together with metafictional dimension hopping, and, frankly, kind of blow.

I have been enjoying the hell out of the Matador series. Pacifist Space Shaolin Ninjas! Start with The Man Who Never Missed, by Steven Perry.

Dresden Files is decent urban fantasy that even those who, like me, tend to vomit at urban fantasy, kind of enjoy, if you can get through the first two books, which kind of suck, but can't really be skipped without missing out on important plot points.

The Destroyer series is not what most people think of as fantasy or sci fi, but, nigga, I been doing martial art for more than twenty years, and I'm stout as fuck, but any martial art that can do what Sinanju does classifies as magic and/or sufficiently advanced technology.
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>>6235762
Okay. I just wanna say, I've been hearing this series recommended for years now, all kinds of shit from all kinds of people to read this shit, and I've been all, like, meh. Got other things to read. You? You just sold me. I am now putting this series on page 1 of my to-read list, entirely because of what you said, even though prior to reading your post, it was nowhere on my list.
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>>6238154
Tim Zahn. If you want to read Star Wars that's better than the original trilogy, read you some Zahn.
>>
>>6241964
This. Dresden Files is urban fantasy for guys. Not the best shit in the world, but if you want to read about werewolves and vampires in an otherwise realistic setting, but don't want the werewolves and vampires having a gay sex competition to see who gets to be friendzoned by the most boring teenage fatass narcissistic bitch in the world, it's Butcher or write your own.
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>>6247873
Are there any Star Wars books worth reading other than the Thrawn trilogy?
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>>6247731
I wish I looked up a reading order before starting to read the series. On bonehunters right now and im starting to think reading them chronologically would make more sense
>>6246121
Thats in one of the earlier book. The whole chain of dogs story was awesome
>>
>>6247937
The original Han Solo Trilogy. And I'm told good things about Rogue Squadron and Republic Commando, though I've not got to them yet. Other than that, none that I'm aware of. I mean, if you're really into Star Wars, you probably won't get too pissed off at the mediocrity you'll face in most of the stories, but if a good book, and by a good book I mean a book that is good, not simply a book that's not too terrible for a Star Wars novel, is what you're after, licensed properties are not the way to go.

Speaking of licensed properties, apparently the Vorkosigan Saga was originally Star Trek fanfic, and when Bujold got a rejection letter for daring to have a protagonist who is short, not beautiful, and not physically imposing, she said, fuck it, filed off the serial numbers, and produced a series that, frankly, blows Star Trek out of the water.
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>>6234385
>Even if it gets good, no book should take SEVEN fucking books to do so.
Having read the whole series I can tell you it's all downhill from the first book until the last few books, and they aren't even that great. Only read if you have massive autism that doesn't allow you to leave things unfinished.
Even at its very best the series is nothing more than a half-decent LOTR rip off, and genrally much worse than that.
Honestly in the entire series the only thing that really stuck with me was a handful of battle sequences that I thought were well done.
>>
Started reading Promise of Blood

bretty good
>>
>>6247979
>The original Han Solo Trilogy
Not terrible, by the standards of Star Wars literature, but still firmly written for teenagers.
Zahn is the only Star Wars writer I would call actually good
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>>6242025
>Could you tell me how the full story ends?
It hasn't. The series ended, but most of the character arcs, if you would call them that, are still going on.

Well... except everyone who died of course.

Well... except those who died and became gatekeepers of the dead.

Well... except those who were already dead and came back alive when another was killed.

You know what... might be better if you just read it.

Itkovian died though, but I'm fucked if I know whether he will stay that way.
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>tfw you will never own the illustrated hard cover limited editions of Malazan, book of the fallen.

It hurts to live.
>>
>>6249390
I feel shitty for my shitty spoiled explaination, so I'll expand it a bit.

He basically became a start-up/minor god. People who visited his shrine would receive blessings from him in the form of dumping their guilt and sins onto him like a good shield anvil. It's revealed later he is either not conscious of it in death, so his soul is ever more burdened/tortured, or he isn't able to refuse anyone.

This eventually got abused to shit. Eventually a high priestess was named, and through her he could communicate with the world to build a formal religion.


My memory is a little sketchy on the finer details though.
>>
>>6248938
Karpshyn is also good.

>>6247537
Not him, but if you want fantasy on a grand scale, it's the best thing you'll find alongside Malazan.
>>
>>6247522
has no one read this or is it just so bad that it's not worth talking about?
>>
>>6249410
And this was AFTER he was given a new body, along with the T'lan Imass that was his friend, correct?
>>
>>6244779
Best high fantasy, anyway. You can have atheists like Pratchett write great fantasy books if they're more down-to-earth and can have political shit in them.
>>
>>6247908
There has got to be more urban fantasy for guys than Desden files/nightside/felix castor.

Some of the female written shit is not that bad, but it's like finding a tiny ass diamond in a giant ass universe of shit. and I can't be fucking fucked to read through 60000 twilight 2.0 books to find that one good/okay series.

yes I'm mad.
>>
>>6251634
Vurt by Jeff Noon is the book you're looking for.
>>
>>6251634

>There has got to be more urban fantasy for guys than Desden files/nightside/felix castor.

No that's really it. UF has largely been taken over by ghost detectives and paranormal romance.

Actually I'm unwilling to classify Twilight/MI and the like as "urban fantasy" just like I'm unwilling to classify Hunger Games and Divergent clones as "Dystopia," but sadly until someone writes something that's actually groundbreaking (Urban Fantasy has never had this and Dystopia hasn't had one in a long long time), we won't be seeing anything more than derivative schlock, so buckle up and enjoy the ride.
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I enjoyed pic related. It gets bonus points for having a female protagonist that isn't a terrible character and for being a fantasy not set in a western Europe type universe.
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What the fuck was Telaranriod supposed to be in WoT? It seems like Robert Jordan just wanted a le ebic dreamworld and didn't put any thought into it.
>>
>tfw you hate it when a series has more than 1 / 2 POVs
>think 1st person > 3rd person

from what I've read fromt he malazan series I like them, but I just can't deal with all the different POVs.
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in all seriousness, no fantasy is inherently garbage. There are some sci-fi works that aren't complete ass but they are few and far between. Stay pleb OP.
>>
I'm enjoying The Stormlight Archive so far, even if you can see a few things coming from a mile away like Kaladin and Shallan, not that I really mind. Also I'm glad the story has finally moved beyond the Shattered Plains.
>>
>>6235766

If you're not well versed in fantasy then why the fuck would you comment in the thread?

Confirmation that /lit/ is full of posturing faggots.
>>
There is literally nothing wrong with genre fiction. Rothfuss is a fun writer, anyone who tells you otherwise is an edgy joycefag.
>>
>>6255347
Too much genre can make your standards way too low, but too much Literary can make you into a pretentious cunt.

Find the balance
>>
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I'd like to mention this gem, reminded me of Monte Cristo
>>
>>6255474
>joycefag detected

I agree though, not everything you read has to be a masterpiece.
>>
>>6255578
I've never read Joyce aside from the erotic fart letter
>>
>>6241103
Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell, not a series but whatever
>>
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>>6235511
>>6245525
I'll second these and throw in:

The Death Gate Cycle by Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis (7 books)

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (2 trilogies and a quartet)

I'm on pic-related
>>
>>6246946
Not him but it's shite. I don't need a setting hand fed to me, but within the first five chapters I should have something resembling a single fucking idea about what the fuck is going on or who the protagonist is supposed to be.
>>
>>6256125
>The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (2 trilogies and a quartet)
You, sir, have taste.
>>
>>6256125
>>6256188
Donaldson is the most repetitive writer I've ever read.

He's got some decent ideas yes, but it just feels like half of his books are "joy is in the ears that hear, not the mouth that speaks" "black flames" "i'm shit and can't tell anyone my problems"
>>
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>>6256186
This is basically the common issue that divides people. If you need to understand everything right away, then Malazan is not for you. For the first book you basically have no clue what's going on -- if you can't simply enjoy the ride, then it's just not your kinda book.

If you stick with it it will gradually begin to make sense. The more books you read, the more pieces fall into place. It's an immensely gratifying experience to figure the puzzle out by yourself instead -- as opposed to being spoon fed information like you do in Sanderon's books.

>who is the protagonist

There is no protagonist. There are so many POV characters that it doesn't even make much sense to talk about it pluralistically. Atleast not until the latter half of the series.
>>
>>6256125
Death Gate was a fun read. Seconding this.
>>
>>6256648
>spoonfed info like in Sanderson's books
Not much about the overall Cosmere is spoonfed. There is still shit located in ELANTRIS that we still don't have a full explanation for.
>>
>>6256670
Yeah, sure, definitely. What I mean is stuff like how the magic works, who the characters are, what the plot is about etc.

It takes several books before you even begin to understand the overall plot of Malazan.

I didn't mean it in a necessarily negative sense. I personally really enjoyed the first two Storm Light books. It's just that the two series are massively different. If there is a hand-holding continuum, then Sanderson and Erikson are as far apart as you can be.

Just curious; have you read Malazan? Because if you haven't, then you should give it a try. If nothing else then just to see what I mean.
>>
>>6256186
lol you're a fucking mongoloid if you gave up on gardens of the moon.
there's a lot of cohesion if you're not a baby that gives up.
>>
>>6256748
Also, I have to add this:

If you decide to give Malazan a try, then you _have_ to atleast read the first two books. He wrote the first book 10 years prior to the second, and in those 10 years he grew substantially as a writer.

The first book is still really, really good imo, but the second, Deadhouse Gates, is on another level.

>dat feel when chain of dogs
>>
I have the 2007 Chronicles of the Black Company omnibus. At the end of Shadows Linger, there's a misprint(?) saying that the Lieutenant, not Raven, died from splitting his head open after slipping . How do you fuck up a book release so badly?
>>
>>6241103
The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan if that qualifies as urban fantasy rather than horror.
>>
>>6250164
Never heard of it m8, sorry.
>>
>>6238682
>terry pratchett

dat nigga dead
>>
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>>6242025
>not liking Hyperion

Is this some new dank meme?
>>
Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros and the Zimiamvian trilogy is the best there is.
>>
Currently reading the shadow campaigns by Django Wexler. It's a good series in my opinion..
>>
>>6258287
>the brothers Juss, Spitfire, and Goldry Bluszco, and their cousin Brandoch Daha
I have no idea if you're serious or not, but the names are fucking crackpot ones in it. No theme at all, just weird sounding shit.
>>
>>6256748
I've read the first four. They're okay/10.

>>6258079
>liking lazy authors who don't explain important plot devices or tie up loose ends
>fanbase who lumps the word "meme" into things
Yeah no thank you.
>>
>>6258079
I remember reading the first chapters of Hyperion and considering them garbage.
>>
>>6258760
>90s "wurd bildind" autism.

HOlY FUCK MADE UP NAMES REEEEEEEE
>>
Last and first men
>>
>>6256186
>but within the first five chapters I should have something resembling a single fucking idea about what the fuck is going on or who the protagonist is supposed to be.
What the fuck, I'm just reading Malazan now. Even though GotM is the weakest one so ar, it still does a good job of giving you information if you pay attention.
>>
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>>6234385
>Book of the New Sun

Okay, I'll confess that I'm pretty pleb as far as readers go, but I didn't really get it.

I read all of it, and I understood the plot and most of its nuances, but it all felt rather dry. It's impossible to connect with any of the characters because they act in their unpredictable and impossible to grasp non-human ways(as they probably realistically should in that scenario, but nevertheless). It is indeed pretty well-written, and has some twists that really blow your mind, but the story ultimately feels kinda pointless, as I neither cared about anyone in it, nor the fate of the universes, nor pretty much anything.

Do you think a re-read would remedy this, or am I beyond saving?
>>
>>6259503
Are you the person I see whenever cosmere stuff gets mentioned on one of the other boards I visit? You post in a similar way.
>>
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>>6235762
Adding to this, Deadhouse Gates is where the series goes fucking nuts. The Chain of Dogs is incredibly emotional, and that's just one element at play in a gigantic universe.

Plus skeletons
>>
>>6259820
Probably. I think I'm the only person on 4chan with a Cosmere folder. I only ever post about the Cosmere on /lit/, and /v/ book threads which occur very very very rarely.
>>
I've never been into Fantasy, but I'm currently reading: Joe Abercrombie's "The First Law" trilogy. I just finished the first book, it's not bad really.
>>
>>6259852
>/lit/ and /v/
Looks like you're not the only person with such a folder afterall. Neat.

Back on topic what's a good Sanderson to rec someone if I want to give a good sense of his style without dumping 2.2k pages of Stormlight onto them at once?
>>
>>6235762
What I like so much about Book of the Fallen is that most of the time gods play with mortals like they're pawns on their chessboard, but sometimes the roles are reversed and a mage manages to trick a god.
>>
>>6259893
Yes, they're certainly a step above the mountains of trash that fill the genre. Recommended.
>>
>>6235856
I think you could definitely read and enjoy it at a surface level.
>>
>>6259893
I just finished the first book as well. It was pretty alright it but I couldn't shake the feeling that it was lacking in some aspect. Seems rather odd to not be able to put my finger on it much further than that. With most authors I know exactly what I like and don't like about their books, but not so here.
>>
>>6259973
I assume it's possible, but most dislike it on the surface level.
>>
>Runelord series after the 5th book
What the fuck was that author thinking? I have never seen a series so thoroughly wrecked by it's creator. Good thing the 4th book tied everything up and everything after can safely be ignored.

>>6245525
While not fantasy and more sci-fi, the Otherworld series by Tad Williams is the best use of the Virtual Reality concept I've seen.
>>
>>6258760
Just fucking read it. The prose is better than any genre fiction and the world more interesting than anything Tolkien has written.
>>
>>6259915
The one person I've recommended Cosmere stuff to has only read Mistborn so far and enjoyed it; even recommended it to one of his friends. Haven't been able to get him to read anything else yet but he's also reading other shit so who knows.
>>
>>6255189
>in all seriousness, no fantasy is inherently garbage.

I think a period is needed here.
>>
>>6242025
>STFU the fuck up.

Gesundheit.
>>
>>6234364
Eat a bad of dicks OP, WoT is fucking great. 6th book is best, it slows in 8th up to 10th, but picks up at the end. Too bad Sanderson can;t write for shit.

Official and objective epic fantasy power rankings:

1. Wheel of Time
2. Lord of the Rings
3. Riftwar

4. Runelords
5. Malazan
6. All the rest a shit
>>
>>6234364
It might not be what you're after, since it's only a single book, but The Stars my Destination is a fantastic book. It's Monte Cristo in space, and I can almost assure you that you'll like a lot more than you think after looking it up on Wikipedia.
>>
>>6240982
>I liked Black Company until they came to India
This.

You should read Castle of the Otter (you can find it stand-alone or collected inside "Castle of Days"). Its Gene writing about writing New Sun and books in general. There's a lot of interesting stuff in there.
>>
>>6260256
> thinks Sanderson can't write for shit
>thinks Jordans book of breast descriptions and bad pacing is any better
>>
Remind me, what happened in Crossroads?
>>
>>6260306
>exaggeration
>>
>>6260256
I love WoT, but I can see how people wouldn't like it. If you aren't interested in the characters or world then the pacing would be terrible. The last three books really didn't give me the best impression of Sanderson either. Give his Stormlight series a try, he has a stronger focus on characters and slows the pace down compared to the last 3 WoT books or his Mistborn series.
>>
>>6260256
The 6th book is when I finally admitted to myself that if I read another word I would go as mad as Lews Therin Telamon.
>>
>>6260348
>Battle of Dumai Wells
>>
>>6260256
>Riftwar

ahhaha well memed friend!
>>
>>6260398
Edgelord
>>
>>6234364
Peter F Hamiltons Void Trilogy is worth reading - alternating sci fi & more fantasy style chapters
>>
>>6251938
Have you read the rest of the series?
>>
>>6260444
Yeah, I enjoyed pretty much all of it.
>>
>>6260403
are you really implying that riftwar isnt garbage? The fact that you put WoT as number one makes me think I'm being rused
>>
>>6260462
You are just a delusional pre-teen faggot that has no idea what good fantasy is.
>>
>>6260480
Your use of pre-teen makes it obvious that you're a teenager.
>>
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>>6260480
>good
>fantasy
>>
>>6260500
Stop responding to shitposting, friend.
>>
The Godslayer Chronicles. Does /lit/ have any thoughts? I enjoyed it
>>
>>6260456
Nice, going to buy the trilogy for Kindle.
>>
>>6257038
I don't believe Raven died.
>>
>>6261391
:^)
>>
reminder that if you read genre fiction you belong on leddit.
>>
>>6261578
>inferiority complex
seek help
>>
>>6261614
>armchair psychology
seek reddit
>>
>>6261624
>ebin memes
kill self
>>
>>6234364
best stories I've ever picked up for the fantasy genre.
>>
>>6234364
The Black Company.
>>
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>>6234364
best so far that I've read for sci-fi.
>>
>>6262108
start anywhere you want.
>started with Moon, then Shadow, and enjoyed them.
>>
>>6262127
>props to Brin here.
>>
>>6262127
I mean, if you like Blade Runner and Shadowrun type stuff.
>>
Strangely enough I Just finished the first book of WoT. I'll probably finish all of them, because I'm horrid like that.
>>
>>6262089
>my fucking local bookstore has no copies of it in stock
>have to drive 2 hours to get a copy
>>
>>6262108
Agree that they're enjoyable books - though shouldn't shadow be listed as the start of the Cormac series? Have you read his 'Owner' trilogy? It's pretty good too.
>>
What series has the DEEPEST LORE? I guess it's probably LOTR, but I've already read that.
>>
>>6264251
Lovecraft has literally the 'deepest' lore.
>>
>>6264251
This>>6258287
>>
>>6247873
I had to stop during the second book because he made Leia so fucking weak.
>>
>>6264251
Malazan does
>>
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>ctrl-f Culture
>No results
>>
>>6265770

the Culture is goatest of the goat but it's not really a series
>>
>>6265779

I kinda get what you're saying because they don't have a solid through-thread that ties them together and you could read them in any order. But they're sci-fi novels all set in the same universe, what else would you call them except a series?
>>
>>6234364
I'm just trying to get into the Malazan stuff again, for the third time. I think it's the lore that's making it tough. That or the names.
>>
>>6265786

I don't know to be honest.
>>
>>6265800
I was just about to try this anon. If it is a harder read, what's a good stepping stone to build up to it? Insofar I've read Weaveworld + The Godslayer Chronicles.
>>
>>6265864

>Weaveworld

Mein neger. Have you read any other Clive Barker?
>>
>>6265887
Unfortunately no. Imajica is on my reading list though. Any rec's based off of liking Weaveworld anon?
>>
>>6265934

Imajica is like a sprawling acid-fuelled epic version of Weaveworld, long-winded but well worth it. The Damnation Game is a much tidier, pacy story with good horror elements and a more grounded tone. His short story collections the Books of Blood are hit and miss but contain some classics. It's been a while so I can't make any really specific recommendations but he's almost always great, the only one I didn't love was Gallilee (sp?) which is more of a period romance with some supernatural stuff, not awful but not really to my taste. I need to go back and read them all again.
>>
>>6265994
Danke you anon. What did you like weaveworld outside of barker?

You might want to check out Blindsight by Peter Watts for more of the horror aspect.
>>
>>6266049

>What did you like weaveworld outside of barker?

You mean, what did I like about it apart from the fact it's Barker? I like how it sets up completely mundane boring British life on one side, then this crazy self-indulgent fantasy world on the other, then has them bleed together. That scene where a storm blows up in the main character's back garden and (from what I remember) the skin of a hangman inflated by the wind blows in to come after him always stuck with me for how it dumps this ridiculous fantasy horror concept into a scene of a Scouser talking to his dad about pigeons. It just gets me.
>>
>>6266071

I remember that. Good shit. Though, I meant in terms of novels/authors, similar to weaveworld but not written by Barker.
>>
>>6266087

I honestly can't think of anything similar, it must exist but I haven't come across it. Anything I could suggest would either be 'just' fantasy or horror, I don't know anyone else who does the same blend. Haunted by Chuck Palahniuk kind of has that sense of delirious horror in an urban setting I guess, but that's stretching it.
>>
>>6266211

also bumping

I don't know if it's suicide to mention 40k on /lit/ but that setting has thrown up some excellent military sf. The Gaunt's Ghosts series has several great examples, really interesting extrapolations from 20th century military history blown up in that lurid 40k style. Any other fans here?
>>
>>6234364
Read Revelation Space.
And read the accompanying novellas and short stories. The Prefect is also very good. I have not read Chasm City and have little interest but all of it is in one universe and it is all fucking brilliant.

On another note, I just finished Tau Zero. That was a good read.
>>
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The Second Apocalypse series.

Fucking fantastic. Crusades, brainwashing monk-ninjas and politics.
>>
>>6259503
>that fucking map

WHY

Fucking WHY

Goddamnit why are fantasy authors some of the most uncreative, boring autistic motherfuckers on the planet?

I've yet to find a fantasy series whose world feels like a NATURAL environment - not some mary sue historical epic creation created by a nerdy 13 year old kid in his room because he spent too much time reading about the Roman Empire.

Where are the chaotic unplanned cities that don't have some architectural gimmick to them? Where are the towns with names that aren't either ripped straight out of Tolkien or generic english villages?

Come on faggots, come up with something REAL.
>>
>>6267494
>fantasy
>real
mutually exclusive
>>
>>6267494
You'd enjoy the first half of Stephenson's REAMDE, there are two fantasy characters in there always arguing about how terrible geology and languages in fantasy/computer game worlds are
>>
>>6267494
You should check out that fictional map subreddit. Sort by top all time and you should find some pretty cool stuff that fits your description.
>>
>>6267709
>leddit
>>
>>6267494
What if an autistic king demanded his capital be torn down and rebuilt in the shape of a wheel?
>>
>>6267494
But cities in a wheel shape do exist. And there plenty of unplanned cities in fantasy as well. I don't ubderstand what you're bitching about.
>>
>>6270561

I'm gonna write a novel based on that event.
It's going to be a comedy book--displaying the king and all his special needs, and the frustrations of everyone around him, having to do everything he says without question.
>>
>>6267494
You should take a look at the world map some time. "Real" map shapes are weird as fuck.

Cities and population distribution too.
>>
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>>6267494

The city on that map was literally designed by a god
>>
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>>6267494
Well it is at the center of the Elendil Basin which is probably why it is circular. See >>6256670

Here's another city map earlier in the chronology.
>>
>>6273299
That looks much more realistic.
>>
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>>6275189
Here's another. I have a small handful I can dump if you'd like.
>>
>>6275373
Go for it.
>>
>>6275573
About to fall asleep but I've only got a handful of maps like these. Can dump more stuff tomorrow.
>>
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>>6275618
>>
A world map.
>>
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Map from Warbreaker, a separate novel of his.
>>
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A map from Elantris.
>>
Shattered Plains from Stormlight Archive. I've got some cool map-related images from SA but I'll save those for later.

Good night, /lit/.
>>
>>6275681
Thanks, I love these things.
>>
>>6275688
You're welcome. I'm glad you enjoy them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
I don't really post on /lit/, but am I a gigantic cunt for really enjoying The Talisman and The Black House by Peter Straub? Is it even fantasy?
>>
Can't tell much from this one.
>>
Overworld of Roshar, the planet where Stormlight Archive takes place on.
>>
>>
Shadesmar, the Cognitive Realm. This is the Rosharan area of Shadesmar (we don't know too much about Shadesmar yet.)
>>
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Another world map of Roshar. This time in decent color.
>>
Battle map from Words of Radiance.
>>
Can't tell much from this one either but I'll include it.
>>
>>
And here's a black and white map of Elendel.

That's all, folks.
>>
If sanderson's writing was half as interesting as his maps are, I might have made it more than 200 pages into the Way of Kings.
>>
Mistborn
>>
I want something set in a world similar to ASOIAF. No insane magic, just some subtle shit here and there
>>
Julian May's The Saga of Pliocene Exile and The Galactic Milieu Series have been a staple re-read over the last 20 years or so.

EE Doc Smiths Lensmen series is good, although Ive only read the last Skylark novel i imagine its ok too. Early sci-fi can be a bit basic, but there's some interesting concepts and weapons in his novels.

I've always preferred Corum and Hawkmoon over Elric and Erekose in the Eternal Champion series, so recommend them over the others of Moorcock's especially the pseudo Celtic mythology of the final 3 Corum novels. Oswald Bastables 3 novels are of note, steampunk before the word was invented.

Hawk and Fisher are fantasy whodunnits, and my recommendation out of the authors considerable output of work and although Simon R Greens work is a bit pulpy and incredibly formulaic, I enjoy most of it to be honest. Mindless action and explosions to speed read through and while away some time.
>>
Just read the first in the Foundation series. Haven't read much sci fi at all but I really enjoyed this. Is the rest of the series as good?
>>
>>6278509
If anything I enjoyed the rest of the trilogy more. Are you starting with the original trilogy or the whole series chronologically?
>>
>>6279736
Original trilogy
>>
>>6281616
I thought the second one was amazing. The mule is a scary mother fucker.
>>
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How some of you idiots can actually hate on Erikson/Malazan, quite simply, blows my mind into a million fucking pieces.

Enjoy your continued plebeian reading experiences. The rest of us know the truth.
>>
>>6235762
Seriously, I could write paragraphs about how shitty Malazan is. I won't, because I've done it before, and Malazanfags come out of the woodwork and go
BUT MUH ARCHAEOLOGY
BUT MUH ANOMANDER RAKE WHO IS SO BADASS

Fuck off. It is terrible, terrible writing.
>>
>>6235781
This was awful. Every character is using terminology you cannot possibly understand in a convoluted plot that, at many points, makes no fucking sense at all.

I'll make the chained god a real god...that way, he'll have to follow the rules! *smugface*

Fucking why? WHAT FUCKING RULES? HOW DOES THIS HELP US? WOULD A CHARACTER PLEASE ELABORATE UPON THIS? HOW DOES HE KNOW THIS WILL DO ANYTHING?
>>
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>>6235762
>Literal Gods walk the earth, powerful enough to shatter entire continents.
Pic obviously related.
>>
>>6281777

Ehhh...depends on execution really.
>>
>>6259842
Is that Whiskey Jack?
>>
>>6281746
>I'll make the chained god a real god...that way, he'll have to follow the rules! *smugface*

Most of the Gods that actually fuck up shit(read up to book 6 so far) are ascendants, that means they were once mortal. The Chained God is an Elder God he wasn't born in the sense that ascendants were(or you and me), he was never mortal, didn't have to choose shit, he doesn't have humanity's [insert spiel about free will here]
>>
>>6259893
What I love about Abercrombie is his fights. They are fucking brutal. Every time a northerner is in a brawl it actually feels like a brawl. Swords? Fuck swords let me just ram the fuck out of you with my shield.
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