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I've noticed a lot anons on /lit/ using 'story' and 'plot' interchangeably. It triggers me slightly.
But let's have a discussion that has never been entirely resolved in narrative theory, /lit/, how would you define these three terms: story, plot narrative.
Or do you prefer fabula and sjuzhet?
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>>8290359
Define how you see them first.
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A story relates an overall experience.
A plot is a series of connected events.
Narrative is the means of telling the story, which is elucidated by outlining the plot(s).
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>>8290385
This was more or less my feelings on it. I agree.
I'm having some thoughts and I'm not sure where I can find more information on what they're about.
If the definition of each word is expressed using other words, and their definition is expressed using other words, and so on, then where is the beginning?
I was trying to define my values, and I was referring to the definitions of words to be more sure about said values.
However I only found myself being led down a rabbit hole of definitions, not getting any closer to some kind of concrete 'thing'.
Everything was just a bundle of definitions tied together to make one definition, and each definition in the bundle of definitions branched out to their own bundle of definitions and so on.
Where is the fundamental?
What is language based on?
Respect - due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others.
Regard - attention to or concern for something.
Concern - relate to; be about.
Relate - make or show a connection between.
Show - be, allow, or cause to be visible.
Be - exist.
exist - have objective reality or being.
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>>8290348
>Where is the fundamental?
It starts with perception of the natural phenomena, names are given. The easiest way to "define" a tree or a blossom or a sunrise, or most simple content words, is pictographically
Abstraction takes place following perception, concepts arise, names are given.
morphemes interact, new words come about, often vague ; languages evolve and die, morphemes remain and change
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> What is language based on?
Nothing. Language is completely arbitrary which is why different languages use different words for the same object. There is no clear 'center', according Derrida sign and signification 'float' but never really 'touch'. This doesnt really have to be a problem but since language creates our reallity it means that everything we percieve is only a guess to the true nature of the object.
Some cultures do not make a difference between a Horse and a pony for example. The only thing that really creates the difference in our language is the name. A pony might aswell be a small horse after all? (Neglecting any anatomical differences which we do not percieve)
I hope I wasnt too incoherent here.
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>>8290377
>Abstraction takes place following perception, concepts arise, names are given.
This interests me. I can understand how physical objects get named because they are in direct perception, but not so much abstract concepts which are not available to the senses.
Does anybody know any books on the topic?
Is 'Slam Poetry' of any intellectual or literary merit?
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>>8290297
No.
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Poetry doesn't. What makes you think slam poetry would?
saging this
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>>8290297
Writing insultsing poetry was rather common among Russian poets in XIX century, at least. Some of these are still well-known.
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He likes Joyce, Gaddis, Gass, Barth, Barthelme, and Pynchon, but for some reason he hates DFW. Why is that?
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>>8290247
He's just sad because everyone at Yale hates his guts.
Also DFW isn't in the same class as the authors you listed.
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>>8290262
Except for Barth
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>>8290247
Because DFW is less good.
>"wind" and "wind" is spelled the same
The English language was a mistake.
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It just works.
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>>8290193
lol so random picture
lol so random topic
>liberal logic
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tear and tear
Anonymous
Is Ulysses actually good? 2016-07-17 20:56:44 Post No.8290172
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Is Ulysses actually good? 2016-07-17 20:56:44 Post No.8290172
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I've never read it, what's so great about it?
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>>8290172
Read it and find out, stupid shitposter
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Well-written sentences, nice images, jokes and stuff.
Also sympathy for humans including the Jews from a time when it wasn't mandatory
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>>8290172
Theres like, literally, 100.00.200 reviews/opinions on internet of this book. Did you REALLy need to make one more thread?
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What books help deal with existential crises, the fact that it's incredibly unlikely you'll do anything of note, and that a decade after your death it'll be like you never existed?
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>>8290116
Stoner
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>>8290116
>a decade after your death it'll be like you never existed?
Sounds pretty comfy desu senpai.
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>>8290116
None - all literature is an example of 'something of note'.
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What are some of the most underrated books you've encountered? For instance outside of /lit I had never heard of the Book of Disquiet among others. I'm looking for new books to add to my lists. I'll start with Burmese Days by Orwell. It's easy, but also his best work IMO.
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>>8290031
Mein Kampf
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>>8290031
Interesting. I'll have to look it up. I really liked Homage to Catalonia, and thought Down and Out in Paris and London was worthwhile as well.
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>>8290031
A lot of stuff from publishers like Dalkey Archive, NYRB (and perhaps Dedalus?) would be considered great but underrated work.
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hello /lit/
can you rec me some decent positions on logics as a tool of philosophical analysis?
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>>8290023
dunno, get a introductory logic textbook perhaps
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P1) Assume that laws of logic are true (AIP).
P2) All propositions are either true or false (LEM, P1).
P3) The proposition "This statement is false" is neither true nor false.
P4) There exists a proposition that is neither true nor false (P3, EQ).
P5) It is not the case that all propositions are true or false (P4 CQ).
P6) It both is and is not the case that all propositions are true or false (P2, P5 Conj).
P7) Therefore the laws of logic are not true (1-6 IP).
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>>8290023
Can you specify a bit more what you are interested in and maybe say what your background in philosophy is?
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How do I make friends who read but aren't epic Barnes and Noble normies
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>>8289845
Find the ugly ones
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>>8289845
Go to graduate school for literature, go to literary conferences, find your local independent publisher and attend the readings that are held there.
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a /lit/ meetup. which will never happen. so just read and stop giving shit.
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can some literate person explain to me why it is considered a masterpiece?
i find it hard to really appreciate it.
with harder works like ulysses i realize it's my limits that compromise the reading, but i find it hard to understand why this (apparently) simple book is so loved
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>>8289674
Because it was written by a darkie
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>don quixote
>simple
Wait til you read the beginning of the second half
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>explain with words to an illiterate why a literary masterpiece is so
I think you expect to much of us, boy.
Ask us to draw you a picture and maybe somebody will.
Ok these are the first books I've bought in years. Basically I haven't read anything since school related assignments years back, and I stare at my computer screen too much and I'm getting bored.
Did I get memed or is this good? They seemed like something I'd enjoy.
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>>8289646
You picked alright. Nothing tooo hard, but you'll have to adjust to Notes from the Underground being set in mid 1800s Russia and muh roubles and all that.
Pick up some Kafka too
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>>8289659
Yeah I didn't wanna start with some fuckhuge books with themes and subjects that will definitely go over my head. Starting with something "light" and I'll see how it goes.
I've heard the titles Metamorphosis and The Trial from Kafka, but those words are about all I know about him.
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Notes from Underground is the only one I have read in that list but it is one of my favorite novels, you picked right and at the right time too, it's never too late to stop being a bitch and start reading.
>>8289659
underground is completely relevant today though.
>>8289690
try The Stranger, No longer Human, and Siddartha all pretty short but still heavy in terms of content and quality.
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Why is biopunk so potent yet unexplroed?
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Post Ill bills
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Hasn't had its seminal work yet
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>>8289581
Is Bill Kill?
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Fresh off the presses
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>>8289441
Are there pictures like that in the movie adaptation?
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>>8289447
I don't know as I postponed seeing it until I read the book (I'm not american so no high school Gatsby reading) But google said it were stills so my bet would be yes.
I did see some trailers tho and it did seem like they went all the way with the mise-en-scène - pic related
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>>8289468
Looks different from what I remember.
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Fuck this book. This is one of the worst fucking books I have ever read. I just got to page 100 out of 160 pages and it's taken me weeks. My fucking head hurts reading this drudging nonsense. Seriously, it makes me fucking angry and I want to burn it, my head hurts. I'm right after the part where he hides the painting in a room and then goes about his life, and it's just going on in all this detail about really irrelevant shit and I try just speed reading it, reading it out loud and scanning my eyes over the pages so I get what's going on and don't need to try that hard, except it's not fucking working and now I just feel tired and wish I could fight someone. I just want to fucking fight someone right now, that's how much this book pisses me off, it's so fucking boring. Except you know what? I have been forcing myself to read it because I just want to finish 10 books so I can complete the goodreads challenge that I set for myself at the beginning of the year, it's not fucking working though. God fucking damn it I hate this book so much, I wish there was something I could read that's actually enjoyable to read, I hate this book so fucking much and I hate Dorian Grey, he's a vapid gullible little piece of shit.
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>>8289200
Pick another one then, you dumb fuck
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>>8289208
I'm waiting for my copy of gravity's rainbow to arrive in the mail.
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>>8289215
Kill yourself