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Worth reading or is it just "muh trans: the novel"?
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>>10002493
its good the trans is very secondary to the point of the book
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>>10002493
You are fucking pathetic, cease to exist
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>>10002493
retard
Anonymous
Best way to learn Plato and Aristotle? 2017-09-09 08:27:49 Post No.10002294
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Best way to learn Plato and Aristotle? 2017-09-09 08:27:49 Post No.10002294
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Best way to learn Plato and Aristotle?
Anonymous
2017-09-09 08:27:49
Post No. 10002294
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I've already taken a look at pic related. I want to get a general grasp on Greek philosophy but is reading both of their complete works necessary, and how viable is it to be an autodidact?
I saw a thread about it yesterday and many seemed to say it's extremely difficult to teach oneself philosophy. Btw I'm a stem fag so I don't have the time/money to really take any philosophy courses despite my interest.
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Check out /lit/ philosophy guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/mobilebasic?pli=1
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>>10002294
>I saw a thread about it yesterday and many seemed to say it's extremely difficult to teach oneself philosophy
It's just self-indulgent rhetoric with a subtle dose of scare tactics made by starving philosophy majors for the sole purpose of justifying the oh-so-excellent™ choice of their degree.
I depsise the word autodictact as well. You don't actually pull things out of your ass in a godforsaken hut at the wasteland – it's intellectually dishonest to pretend that one hasn't gained benefits from precise translations, copius footnotes, engaging introductions, thematic secondhand sources and a freely availiable plethora of online communities to discuss these matters.
With that said, don't fall for the memes of /lit/. The Greeks are great, but I doubt the idiots who make these charts actually have read the works in question.
You can start with Plato directly. Get his complete works as his various ideas are superseded throughout and interconnected. The dialogues are fairly accessible and to a certain degree self-contained. Homer holds a special place of honor in his thought, so get the Iliad and Odyssey too.
Aristotle is more complex. His entire method is based on the dialectic of his Organon and the four-fold theory of causation as found in On Generation and Corruption as well as the Physics.
My personal advice would be to skip Aristotle and treat yourself to Plotinus instead – he takes what is good from both Aristotle and the Stoics and weaves a metaphysical system within the framework laid by Plato.
Is there any reason in particular you have decided to study the Greeks? I mean, what do you seek to get out from all of this?
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>>10002584
>Is there any reason in particular you have decided to study the Greeks? I mean, what do you seek to get out from all of this?
I've been interested in getting to learn more about Islamic philosophy, which drew largely from the Greeks, mainly Plato and Aristotle. Al-Ghazali's Incoherence of the Philosophers attempts to refute the metaphysical doctrine of the Greeks, but reading that requires a thorough understanding of the Greeks, as well as their Islamic successors Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina.
The link the previous anon posted actually touched upon some of these works but admitted that very few people are well-versed in them. There's a rich philosophical and theological tradition from that part of the world that many today seem to discredit/neglect, for obvious reasons. Also, my knowledge of classical Arabic is almost at a level sufficient enough to read some of the yet untranslated works.
But in order to get there, I realize I must first understand what the Greeks were all about. Though all the /lit/ guides and infographics seem to be a bit overkill for what I'm actually looking for.
>You can start with Plato directly
You might be the first on this board to say this. You're saying I don't have to read dozens of hardly relevant books to understand Plato?
Which is more likely:
>Everything is Art
>Nothing is Art
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Everything is what you can make of it, even if its nothing.
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Art is a meme
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art depends only on intent
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had what turned out to be a rather impassioned discussion in a meeting at work the other day over the definition of the word 'most'. i held that it just meant 'more than any other option'. aka if there are two options, anything over 50% of one of them would constitute that being the 'most'. for example: if you were a flight attendant and gave people two options for food, chicken or fish, and out of the 200 people on the plane, 101 chose chicken and 99 went with the fish, you could say that 'most people chose chicken'.
to my surprise i was one of the only people who saw it this way. most everyone else took it to mean 'a great majority of', or 'almost all'. they each had their own thresholds for this, which were anywhere between 75-90%.
is there any grey area here, was i wrong, or do i work with morons?
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they are morons, but in a hundred years that will have become the meaning of "most" thanks to their prolebrains systematically bestguessing at concepts and destroying a three thousand year legacy of western thought and language in the process, so in a way, we're all kind of wrong
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>>10002179
They're idiots. Most has a quite solid definition as meaning a mathematical majority.
>>10002192
This anon is correct. We've been destroying the English language systematically via the steady acceptance of more and more degenerative slang, combined with an ever-mounting disregard for semantics and definitions and disingenuous political agencies intentionally obstructing meaning. Most can mean whatever you want it to!
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>>10002179
Here's a theoretical (fictional) example:
"Most of the crime committed in the country is done by asians."
"Really?"
"Yes."
"Asians are genetically criminal."
"What are the numbers exactly?"
"Out of all 100 crimes, Asians committed 55 of them."
"Most crime IS committed by Asians then. Wow."
Do you agree with this use of most?
We share great poetry and comment on it (if you want too). I'll start. Let's keep it in English, I'm okay with German too.
Arseny Tarkovsky - First meetings
We celebrated every moment
Of our meeting as epiphanies
Just we two in all the world.
Bolder, lighter than a bird's wing.
You hurtled like a vertigo,
Down the stairs, leading
Through moist lilac to your realm
Beyond the mirror.
When night fell, grace was given me,
The sanctuary gates were opened,
shining in the darkness
Nakedness bowed slowly;
Waking up, I said:
'God bless you!', knowing it
To be daring: you slept,
The lilac leaned towards you from the table
To touch your eyelids with its universal blue,
Those eyelids brushed with blue
Were peaceful, and your hand was warm.
And in the crystal I saw pulsing rivers,
Smoke-wreathed hills, and glimmering seas;
Holding in your palm that crystal sphere,
You slumbered on the throne,
And - God be praised! - you belonged to me.
Awaking, you transformed
The humdrum dictionary of humans
Till speech was full and running over
With resounding strength, and the word you
Revealed its new meaning: it meant king.
Everything in the world was different,
Even the simplest things - the jug, the basin -
When stratified and solid water
stood between us, like a guard.
We were led to who knows where.
Before us opened up, in mirage,
Towns constructed out of wonder,
Mint leaves spread themselves beneath our feet,
Birds came on the journey with us,
Fish leapt in greeting from the river,
And the sky unfurled above...
While behind us all the time went fate,
A madman brandishing a razor.
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Paul Celan - Todesfuge
Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken sie abends
wir trinken sie mittags und morgens wir trinken sie nachts
wir trinken und trinken
wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng
Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland dein goldenes Haar Margarete
er schreibt es und tritt vor das Haus und es blitzen die Sterne er pfeift seine Rüden herbei
er pfeift seine Juden hervor läßt schaufeln ein Grab in der Erde
er befiehlt uns spielt auf nun zum Tanz
Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
wir trinken dich morgens und mittags wir trinken dich abends
wir trinken und trinken
Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland dein goldenes Haar Margarete
Dein aschenes Haar Sulamith wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng
Er ruft stecht tiefer ins Erdreich ihr einen ihr andern singet und spielt
er greift nach dem Eisen im Gurt er schwingts seine Augen sind blau
stecht tiefer die Spaten ihr einen ihr andern spielt weiter zum Tanz auf
Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
wir trinken dich mittags und morgens wir trinken dich abends
wir trinken und trinken
ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
dein aschenes Haar Sulamith er spielt mit den Schlangen
Er ruft spielt süßer den Tod der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
er ruft streicht dunkler die Geigen dann steigt ihr als Rauch in die Luft
dann habt ihr ein Grab in den Wolken da liegt man nicht eng
Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
wir trinken dich mittags der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
wir trinken dich abends und morgens wir trinken und trinken
der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland sein Auge ist blau
er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel er trifft dich genau
ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
er hetzt seine Rüden auf uns er schenkt uns ein Grab in der Luft
er spielt mit den Schlangen und träumet der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
dein goldenes Haar Margarete
dein aschenes Haar Sulamith
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Gottfried Benn
Lebe wohl, du Flüchtige, Freie
die Flügel zu Fahrt und Flug -
geschlossen die Rune, die Reihe,
die deinen Namen trug.
Ich muß nun wieder
meine dunklen Gärten begehn,
ich höre schon Schwanenlieder
vom Schilf der nächtigen Seen.
Lebe wohl, du Tränenbereiter,
Eröffner von Qual und Gram,
verloren – weiter
die Tiefe, die gab und nahm.
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Miloš Crnjanski - Misery
Like on a corpse
the lanterns shine around
our poor garden.
Has the night covered you with silky spreads?
Did you rise to be a lady instead?
Where are you now?
Do you still love the streets at night
when whores and lights stand alike
in the rain?
And the horses drag wet couples,
in carts,
that creak like a coffin?
Are you now somewhere smiling,
rich and distrait
where laughter bursts?
O, don't be warm, blossomy,
O, don't be happy,
at least you, you.
O, don't love anything,
not books, not theatres,
like the educated do.
Do you sometimes, suddenly,
in good company,
still say what side you hold to?
O, do you still remember
how we walked,
through all the streets in the rain?
Do you remember,
all the nightly birds, thieves
and whores,
were innocent to us.
We were ashamed of richly homes,
and we swore we'd stay unhappy,
at least you and I.
In my heart I feel the rattly gnawing
and the rain falls, cold outside.
Where are you now?
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this is overrated and at the very least 200 pages too long
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wrong
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wrong
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wrong
>"Say something smart"
>"I think the influence of Kirkegaard on Camus is underestimated. I believe Hobbes is just Rousseau in a dark mirror. And I truly believe, with Hegel, that transcendence is absorption."
r8 /lit/. How legit is this "intellectual"™ character? She's supposed to be a genius.Pro level: Say something smarter yourself.
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>>10002144
Isn't the point of Hal that he knows a lot of theoretical shit that he can cite but is completely naive and doesn't understand humans at all?
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>>10002144
She beith a character of whimst cometh from fiction. Thusly, she be not legit as being such.
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>>10002144
Only the last line is a 'smart' saying. Conversations that revolve around personalities - even personalities focused on personal beliefs, and even if those personalities are revolutionary philosophers - are inherently devoid of any intellectual value. Saying that Hobbes is Rousseau in a dark mirror communicates no true understanding of either personality, nor does it offer serious insight on their ideals (though it could be expanded on to offer such); it is a statement that appears intelligent, without holding the merit to warrant such alone.
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do you have to be religious to be a decent writer?
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No.
/thread
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>>10002104
No but religion can be beautiful and the correlation between great writers and being religious makes sense
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No, but you do have to be a white man.
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Hey /lit/,
just what is English?
Most creative/interesting answer wins.
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English /ˈJŋɡlJʃ/ (About this sound listen) is a West Germanic language that was first spoken in early medieval England and is now a global lingua franca.[4][5] Named after the Angles, one of the Germanic tribes that migrated to England, it ultimately derives its name from the Anglia (Angeln) peninsula in the Baltic Sea. It is closely related to the Frisian languages, but its vocabulary has been significantly influenced by other Germanic languages particularly Norse (a North Germanic language), as well as by Latin and Romance languages, particularly French.[6]
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French fucked dutch
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A language spoken by the English and their descendants
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Why do people say to start with the greeks? How can anyone start with the greeks unless they've never read anything in their life, unless, by chance, the first books they've ever read were by the greeks
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>>10002003
bad use of the word "unless". very confusing
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>>10002012
can't handle a word being used twice?
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starting with the greeks is for philosophy
if you are starting READING, then start with the most accessible books and move up
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I had to leave my house for Hurricane Irma and there is a decent chance I will not have much of a house to come back to.
I had limited space to bring books I wanted to save, so I had some decisions to make. I made my selections based mostly on sentimental value. Others were chosen because of how much I like them and their rarity in bookstores (at least in small towns like where I live).
I will first post pics of my bookshelves from before and then pics of what I saved. Feel free to ask why I made particular choices or ridicule me, whatever.
Also feel free to post which of your books you would save in such a situation.
Bookshelves 1/4
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2/4
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3/4
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>>10001860
I'm sorry you might not find much of your house when you get back but at least in this picture I don't see anything of value. Most of them look like used copies, which were probably cheap and not so difficult to find again. It sucks, though, but definitely not a big loss.
ITT: Try and write the best opening sentence to a novel you can. Most interesting one wins.
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He heard the screams of the wild negroes biting at eachothers penises, but he couldn't for the life of him remember, he had more important things to think of, like penis penis PENIS PENIS PENIS, OLOLOLLOL IOGA BOGA PENIS.
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>>10001857
It was the afternoon of my eighty-first birthday, and I was in bed with my catamite when Ali announced that the archbishop had come to see me.
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He was coked and boozed up as he left the casino, he had just had an orgy and he felt exhausted; he got in his Ferrari and blasted mad tunes as he drove off, when a stranger challenged him to a game of chicken.
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Bros, every female in this book was so damn perfect. Any other lit that accomplishes the same?
I want to melt my icy misogynistic heart.
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>>10001813
Go back to /r9k/
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>>10001813
Lady Macbeth is hawt.
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>that chick in the brothers karamazov who wrote a hearfelt love confession
Does this even happen anymore?
Did it even happen back then?
>tfw I progressed and am progressing in an insane life situation a la Walter White
>tfw I can actually sympathize with White's dilemmas
can anyone recommend any books that feature trying to maintain your morality while facing off against immoral monsters?
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>>10001808
Are you redpilled too, and referring to liberal degeneracy and anti-whiteness?
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>>10001816
No, and it just so happens that I hate most political topics with a passion. I'm referring to deeply personal matters, like pic related. Mr. White is realizing the gravity of his actions, he's now had an innocent man arrested and his partner beaten to a bloody pulp--this is the moment where he decides if he's going all in or going to stop his actions on account of innocent people. Its significant for him because he's dealing with himself, and the people who he's pitted against (rival drug cartel competition) are monstrous, heartless, and don't sweat the body count.
I'm looking for a book where there's a similar struggle going on.
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>>10001869
Let's meet half-way. Mein Kampf by Hitler. Stay proud of whiteness despite subversive forces, brother
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Any book/course out there that helps me understand how human psychology works? l really can't stand when l don't understand something and lately l don't understand shit like why does my gf is somedays super close and others just straight up fucking ignores me and becomes more very nasty when talking
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>>10001717
Your gf has cheated on you countless times. Almost all women cheat. Girls only want guys who are exceptionally outgoing and have remarkable physiques. Shy and average guys don't get girlfriends. If they do, they get cheated on.
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she has borderline personality disorder
also this >>10001723
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>>10001717
>le thinly veiled /r9k/-tier 'woman hate' thread