Do you think the nonbinary/genderfluid trend will ever die out?

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As long as you try to force people into a false, made up cultural binary there will always be people outside of it.
Only by abolishing gender will you see an end to it.

>>8811551
>made up cultural binary

Men have penises, women have vaginas.

Some people are born with a condition that makes them want to change this as much as they can and that's fine, but it's still a biological reality.

Sooner the better. People are looking for small details that non exist? Being gender non conforming is fine, but just because I'm slightly tomboyish doesn't mean that I'm so kind of NB instead of trans woman

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>>8811558
sex =/= gender, dude
Sex is the biological factor, and gender are all the faggy ass rules you try to apply to it.
For example.
Penis and Vagina = sex
Blue for boys and pink for girls = gender
Jeans and dressed = gender
Tits and balls = sex
Understand?

Usually only americans get this wrong since this is how they teach it there for some reason. Probably just to be different like they do with spelling and measurements.

The current understanding of gender will probably change, but there has always been and always will be androgyny, crossdressing/drag, transgenderism, "third genders" and so on. The existence of gender roles perpetuates the existence of people who exist outside of those gender roles.

Obviously we're not talking about penis/vagina biological differences, which will not change, but rather about gender as a role in society

>>8811576
nah fampai sex and gender are the same thing that's why there's two words for it
#proudtobebornintheUSA

>>8811558
>muh hot dogs and buns

>>8811551
>>8811573

those "cultural rules" are biological driven you brainlet.

Guys are into things
Girls are into people

>>8811558
Some men have vaginas while other women have penises.
Life is not black and white, it is multi-colored.

>>8811573
The best part is not even sex is binary!

>>8811591
Just because that's what you were taught doesn't make it true.
If the cultural gender is so universal, why is it different in every time period and cultural region on the planet? :^)

>>8811591

Most of the pseudoscience that claims women and men are irrevocably different has been proven wrong over the years. There is no such as a "male" and "female" brain, for example.

The fact that there are men who enjoy "girl" things, and women who enjoy "boy" things, shows that the supposed biological distinction is far from absolute.

>>8811596
Be careful, someone might say that doesn't count because it goes against their preconceived notions!

>>8811601
>the fact that there are humans that are sadistic sociopaths is proof that humans are violent.

That's not how it works.

>>8811573
>Sex is the biological factor, and gender are all the faggy ass rules you try to apply to it.

No, that's gender roles. Gender roles are socially constructed, sex is a biological reality that can be changed to a certain extent for a rare minority of people with a medical condition that requires them to change it to be happy.

Not conforming to social gender roles does not literally make you another gender though. That's ridiculous. What's wrong with men being feminine and women being masculine? If you're a transsexual and need to change your biological sex through hormones and surgery as much as you can then that's fine, but non-binary genders make no sense.

theyre just kids, ignore them
its not worth your time to debate people who do these mental gymnastics
ignore them, theyll grow up

>>8811601
>has been proven wrong over the years

by whom and how?

>>8811607
Gender roles is a longer way to say gender. Know who agrees? My team of doctors. I'm sorry, is medical science a conspiracy?

>>8811610
>doctors
>just kids

>4chan alt-right spammers
>super wise and omniscient

Really
Makes
One
Begin
To
Consider
Having
Thoughts

>>8811611
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/11/brains-men-and-women-aren-t-really-different-study-finds
https://www.livescience.com/52941-brain-is-mix-male-and-female.html
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-no-male-female-brain-20151130-story.html

>>8811619
let me link you an /r9k/ thread, wordpress article, and ten dailymail links on why you're wrong and sex and gender are the same thing :^)

>>8811614
Citation?

Gender roles are socially constructed, gender identity is how you relate to your sex. A person who is born biological male who is comfortable with that can be said to have a male gender identity. A person who is born biologically male who is uncomfortable with that and wants to be biologically female can be said to have a female gender identity.

Social gender roles have nothing to do with it. A biological woman who likes to wear pants is still a woman, and there's nothing wrong with that. You're only trans if you want to change your biological sex.

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>>8811629
>cite your own doctors
My own doctors.

>>8811596
Intersex people are people with mixed male and female traits. They don't develop brand new genitals or secondary sexual characteristics. If anything, intersex people are walking proof that biological sex is simply a series of binary YES/NO statements.

They also aren't talking points for you to use because pretending to be a scorpiogender is easier and more yewnique than being a tomgirl or fairy boy. Person the fuck up.

>>8811619
I'm not going to bother trying to find it since I'm too lazy and you're just a tranny, but there was a study that came out a few months ago that showed that male brains are more connected going up and down the hemispheres and female brains connections run left and right across the hemispheres.

>>8811631
Where are your doctors getting their information from? Are they just pulling shit out of their asses? Because that's not how science works.

>>8811634

Wow, and do you even know what that means in practical terms, or are you desperately clinging to anything that might help uphold your worldview?

>>8811636
>my alt-right theories have more validity than multiple different doctors
ok

>>8811636
if you dont pander to mentally ill children they might kill themselves and then your head is on the chopping block for culpability

>>8811638
No I don't know what it means since I'm not a fucking neurologist but it does show that there is a difference between male and female brains.

Why the fuck are all the trannies here so godamn condescending and insufferable?

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>>8811643
>doesn't even know the definition of mental illness
>expects people to take his opinion on medicine over doctors
wHew

>>8811640
What doctors? You aren't citing anything.

Anyone can make the claim you're making.
>my doctors told me it's perfectly healthy to live off a diet of exclusively ramen noodles
>my doctors told me that vaccines cause autism
>my doctors told me that if you pray hard enough to jesus your cancer will go away
>my doctors told me that santa claus is real

I mean are you just trolling?

>>8811650
I CAN'T CITE
A FUCKING VERBAL CONVERSATION
YOU DUMB SHIT

>>8811652
>verbal conversation
Thats not evidence desu

>>8811648

>calling me condescending and insufferable
>also calling me a tranny

>Male brains do seem to be built differently than female brains. An analysis of more than 100 studies found that the volume of a man’s brain is 8% to 13% greater than the volume of a woman’s brain, on average. Some of the most noticeable differences were in areas of the brain that control language, memory, emotion and behavior, according to a 2014 report in the journal Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews.

>“Although there are sex/gender differences in brain structure, brains do not fall into two classes, one typical of males and the other typical of females,” the team wrote in a study published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. “Each brain is a unique mosaic of features, some of which may be more common in females compared with males, others may be more common in males compared with females, and still others may be common in both females and males.”

>“This extensive overlap undermines any attempt to distinguish between a ‘male’ and a ‘female’ form for specific brain features,” Joel and her colleagues concluded. These findings have “important implications for social debates on long-standing issues such as the desirability of single-sex education and the meaning of sex/gender as a social category.”

>>8811653
Yeah only /pol/ is real evidence xd

>>8811652
But you can cite the scientific studies that your doctors are hopefully getting their information from, if they exist.

Except you can't because they don't. Which means your doctor is a quack (assuming they're real and you aren't making this up) because they're pulling medical opinions out of their ass without any scientific justification for it.

>>8811654
>words hurt my feelings

>>8811654
>sexual dimorphism exists
>therefore trannyism is real

>>8811661
>ran out of arguments

>>8811660
Do you fucking expect my doctors to be linking me fucking articles and shit m8? While I'm at their office? Are you an assburger?

>>8811650
the second one is good because there are actual anti-vaxxer doctors out there

theyre not trolling, theyre young and edgy
some people become nazi shitposters and some people become tumblr-gender shitposters

take solace in the fact that everyone collectively hates them and that their best defense is to call people who disagree with them /pol/ or alt-right when im actually a tranny who hates their guts

a reminder that theyre just little kid shitposters like on /b/ and should be ignored, move on to a better thread with grown ups talking about grown up things

>>8811656
No one is using /pol/ as evidence.

You are using a verbal conversation as evidence.

>>8811665
You have access to the internet, you should be able to search for studies that confirm your belief that nonbinary genders have some basis in science if they exist.

>>8811619
all of these link to the exact same study

>>8811654
>>calling me condescending and insufferable
>>also calling me a tranny

Being an insufferable twat and using words are not the same thing.

Its a word get over it you stupid tranny hon

>>8811669
I'm using an entire team of medical professionals who have prescribed me with medication as evidence.
You are using "common sense".

>>8811671
You too.

>>8811675

Why are you so angry about this though? Is it because you're losing?

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>>8811675
cishet spammers go home you're fooling nobody

>>8811674
>reading your linkspam before posting it

>>8811654
Ya this proofs my point.

Obviously if you put a female brain and a male brain side by side you are not going to be able to say this is a female brain and this is a male brain.

If you put a group of female brains and a group of male brains, neurologists are going to be able to figure out which group is male and which group is female

group =/= individual

>>8811677
>doctors are infallible
>every story I tell on /lgbt/ is true

I only want to see sources not "well my doctor said..."

>>8811685

I don't think you understood the study at all. While there are discreet physiological differences between male and female, the way the brain works is a combination of "male" and "female" functions, which is different for every particular person. By measuring physical aspects of a brain, a scientist can determine if it's male or female, but there is no prove that there is a "male" or "female" way for the brain to operate.

>>8811690
>the doctors are wrong they're quacks they're just lying
>only me and my niche theories are right
Why is anyone supposed to believe you?

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>>8811551
>False
>Made up

>>8811691
Well sure. Theres no chevy or ford way that an engine works, but ford engines are different from chevy engines but in a vacuum there both essentially the same mechanics.

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>>8811696
Yes. Culture is made up by people. WOWIE ZOWIE.

>>8811692
Why are we suppose to believe you?

>>8811698

The problem is that the brain is not an engine. The brain performs a million different functions in a billion different combination, which makes every single brain unique. An engine is mass-produced for a single function, which makes it easier to think "oh, they must be different even though they're similar".

The very nature of the brain makes impossible to categorize so neatly into compartments. There are physiological differences, but there is not a single way for men or women to think.

>>8811706
So what, you seriously expect me to just forget everything my own doctors have told me to take -your- word for it? Come on now. You're the one arguing for the niche theory nobody except the far right takes seriously, you change my mind faggot.

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>>8811573
Nice cat girl
>Sex =/= gender
Gender is simply an extension of sexuality, because male and female have different modal personality traits

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>>8811715
Then why is that not consistent at all among different cultures? That's pretty eurocentric of you anon.

>>8811714
>So what, you seriously expect me to just forget everything my own doctors have told me to take -your- word for it?

I don't care what you do or what you think. I am just trying to lecture you about how to have a proper debate. Saying "well my doctors told me..." is just heresay since we have no idea if you even spoke to a doctor about it and is thus not permissible in a debate

>>8811722
So you're here to spout alt-right propaganda without any sources and then demand everyone just take your word for it? Okay.

if you believe something to be true without evidence does that make it true?

I mean it does exist in this universe in one form and that's in your mind
really fascinating stuff
reminds me of people trying to justify the existence of god scientifically

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>>8811733
Exactly.
There is zero evidence that gender is real and not just a collective belief.

>>8811732
>anyone who says anything anti-trans is alt-right.

It's like the boy who cried nazi

>>8811746
>spouting propaganda only ever used by /pol/acks and terfs
>b-but I'm different, I just got these ideas from somewhere else
hmmmmm

>>8811737
Why do almost all animals each have their own form of gender roles?

>>8811541
Yes

>>8811732
How are any of us being 'alt-right'?

All I'm saying is that I think transsexuality exists, and non-binary genders don't make any sense with how scientists currently understand transsexuality to work. Non-binary genders existing would invalidate the experience of many transsexual people.

Sex is a biological reality, some people are born with a neurological condition that requires them to change their biological sex as much as the current technology allows. They don't do this because of social gender roles, a trans man does not get on testosterone and get a mastectomy because he likes to wear pants. That's ridiculous and offensive.

You can be a masculine cis woman or a feminine cis man and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't inherently make you trans though. You're trans if you want to change your biological sex.

>>8811751
Sexual roles, not gender roles.

>>8811753
>spouting niche ideas only ever spouted by one niche group
>but I have nothing to do with them
???

>>8811749
Dude I'm not even the same person you were arguing with. I merely jumped in after I saw you using "well my doctors said..." and asked you to back up that shit with sources.

>>8811759
Let me just upload the audio recording of my visits to their office then one second.

>>8811751

For the same reason that humans enforce gender roles?

>>8811758

Female lions hunt for the pack, the males do not.

Male penguins teach the kids how to do shit, the females do not.

Literally almost all animals each have their own rules for what males do and what females do.

But when humans have it, it must be cultural?

>>8811763
Money and power?

>>8811765
Yes that's called sex.
Not culture. Culture is not biological.

>>8811758
These are not "niche" ideas this is the scientific consensus, and is more or less how transsexuality has been understood by scientists who have researched it for the past century.

The idea of non-binary genders being a thing is new and niche, and nobody can explain how it makes any sense within the scientific model we currently have to explain transsexuality.

How does being gender non-conforming make you the same thing as a transsexual, who wants to change their biological sex? In a world where gender roles didn't exist and everyone wore their hair short and wore identical gray jumpsuits, biological sex would still exist, and transsexuals would still exist and would still feel the need to change their biological sex, but non-binary people would not exist.

>>8811719
Except it is? Modality occurs across all cultures, just because you can't think of the feminine beyond the European concept of it doesn't mean it exists nowhere else

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>>8811768
>scientific consensus

>>8811765

All the animals you cited live in a form of society with each other. They are not solitary. This is the exact reason why they have distinct sexual roles; it is their way of arranging their society.

Humans are the most complex social animals, and have a myriad ways of arranging their society, and are also capable of changing these arrangements for the better.

I always find it weird when people compare humans to animals in this regard, as if humans were incapable of changing their way of thinking, living, and organizing.

>>8811774
Read the DSM-V entry on Gender Dysphoria, or the early DSM entries on Gender Identity Disorder, they will tell you the same thing I'm saying now.

>>8811781
>DSM
>scientific consensus

>>8811781
I have
they don't

what I find funny is that I can garuntee all of these nb airheads are afab

its always teenage girls that fall for this meme

>>8811778
At the very core though we are animals. Sure we are vastly more sophisticated than they are but we are still animals.

The fact that there is very little females in STEM majors isn't because of society, it's because females aren't as interested in STEM things than males are.

>>8811790
amab here, not everyone who disagrees with you is "le evil roastie whore :("
you have issues dude

>>8811793
saying youre amab doesnt prove anything and not everyone who disagrees with you is some r9k incel

>>8811797
yeah, blame the women then deny being a robot

>>8811791

It's debatable. There is no concrete evidence that women are intrinsically less interested in STEM majors. There is concrete evidence that women are discouraged from pursuing STEM majors.

Right now there are more women completing college than men. You could think, "that must be because men are less interested in education," or you could think, "there must be a number of complex factors behind this trend."

>>8811807
Women do better in k-12 because thats the environment where they learn best. So its not surprising that more woman go to college then men.

Men learn best by doing, not by sitting in desk for 8 hours listening.

>>8811803
im commenting on everything ive ever seen, noticing a super consistent trend isnt blaming women

I know youll probably disagree with me for the sake of being a contrarian but if theres one thing we can agree on objectively its that there is a ridiculously overwhelming amount of afab nb people, over 95%, you want to say its 90% fine but be realistic please im trying to see if you can see some reality here

>>8811807
college is functionally useless for most people anyway

>>8811819
tbqh one of my gender therapists is a afab nb but, I'm an amab nb and that's all of them I know so anecdotally idk fampai I just can't say

>>8811774
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=1074721744

All of the research here points to transsexuality being a biological condition, not a social or psychological condition.

So please explain how being non-binary is the same thing.

The facts are that non-binary genders don't make any sense because it's an entirely subjective concept that relies on the existence of binary social gender roles. So like I said, in a society where both males and females are treated and live their lives 100% identically it would seemingly be impossible for non-binary genders to still exist, while transsexuality would definitely still exist.

>>8811828
because non-binaries are gnc transsexuals as opposed to gender conforming transsexuals

>>8811814

People like simple and neat answers like that, but most of the time large social trends are caused by a myriad factors. If human society were so simple, it would always be the same everywhere, which is not the case.

In past, women did NOT go to college more than men, so this flatly demonstrates that your answer is wrong, or at the very least incomplete.

>>8811807
Formal education is tailored to girls/women at the expense of male students.

>>8811828
>>8811840
Like as an abolitionist myself I would say that everyone and no one is non-binary, without a binary to be relatively attached or unattached to you necessarily are not a part of the binary but also not non-binary either. At the same time, there's the /cultural/ aspect of whether you choose to subscribe to a binary gender role or not.
Meaningless to me, I hope everyone becomes agender as we all should, but these are words for trends in society, biology is sex. Sex is biology. Gender is sociology.

>>8811840
Except unless you experience dysphoria about your biological sex to the point that you want to change it then you are not a transsexual.

And not all transsexuals are gender conforming or have to be. It's fine to be a trans man with feminine interests and a trans woman with masculine interests. Claiming that a trans woman isn't actually a woman but is actually "non-binary" because she likes motorcycles or whatever is wrong and transphobic. Transsexuality, again, has nothing to do with social gender roles. It's about wanting to change your biological sex.

I really hate post modernsim

>>8811853
I am changing it.
Read the post above yours.

>>8811862
That's just a buzzword to you. If you knew anything about post-modernism you wouldn't care at all, since post-structuralism is much more relevant. Fucking pleb ass pleb.

>>8811827
alright fair enough thanks for being honest

from 15-18 I was messing around on tumblr and twitter feminist spaces for a bunch of reasons and I got to converse or be associated with realistically conservative estimate over 100 nb people over this time and no more than 4 or 5 were amab, it was like finding a unicorn

when I was on my way out of that phase I remember talking to someone about nb and they asked me the amab to afab ratio and we looked at as many as we could from my accounts and thats what we found

I hope you can appreciate that im being totally sincere and if you look around yourself you will also see a minimum 9/10 overall ratio

im not trying to say youre right or wrong but if there is to be medical studies and being taken seriously this will have to have something to do with it, 9/10 is just too stark

>>8811867
If you want to change your biological sex then you are a transsexual, and you aren't "non-binary" regardless of your perceived masculinity or femininity. Masculinity and femininity are cultural concepts. Transsexuality isn't cultural, it's biological.

>>8811868
Yeah there exists an awful middle ground between terf and sjw ideology and that's where I sit.

>>8811851
See the problem here is that you think there is a choice in the matter of the binary a priori when the binary is actually just inherently true.

You keep repeating the meme that gender is totally socially constructed ad infinitum in the face of people telling you that the feminine and masculine are inherent in all cultures and are driven by biology. Because biology drives human behavior as well.

Forgetting that?

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>>8811867
thanks I must have misinterpreted my own opinion again, care to remind me what my favorite color is too?

>>8811882
See there you go again saying it's biological. Then why, fucking, idk, China?

>>8811867
>Dude axiomatic knowledge doesn't exist lmao
Its a meme philisophy

>>8811891
>Then why, fucking, idk, China?
What did he mean by this? Speak Enlgish, Antonio China has a binary

>>8811900
The gender roles in china in the 1600s are different from the gender roles in the united states in 2017. Sure there are similarities but there are also differences, how can these differences exist, ever, if they are inherent and biological?

>>8811881
>terf and sjw ideology

This is something I've noticed too, TERF and enby SJW ideology when it comes to trans issues. Both conflate gender with gender roles and argue that gender isn't real.

>>8811909
*TERF and enby SJW ideology are essentially the same when it comes to trans issues

>>8811591
On average, on average those things have weight. In individual terms not really. Tale away then is to stop upholding these things as absolute amd allow deviation. Maximum freedom of expression cant ovveride biology so its a good compromisefor all

>>8811881
>>8811909
on the surface the similarities are hating men but its fascinating that it goes way deeper than that
these extremes can be so similar and so close


holy shit guys, snowflake horseshoe theory is what it should be called

>>8811926
Basically, both of them hate the idea that being trans might be a real medical condition with biological origins that some people are born with. The only difference is really aesthetics, one group claims to be pro-trans and the other claims to be anti-trans.

>>8811938
do you think an argument could be made that this is linked with hating men?

I know for sure that terfs base heavily around their hate for all men and trans are invading their spaces as men etc but is there a link for nb sjw?

feminists hate men is an entry tier meme but I feel as though every day its more and more true

>>8811926
I don't hate men, I had the way men are trained and I think that it's an attack on both men and women, like, the love for violence and fighting is a huge part of being a "man" where I'm from. If you aren't a "fruity faggot" you pick fights but never ever lay your hand on a woman. I don't like that. That means men have to get beat up by each other and shit.

>>8811938
No I'm totally fine with that idea actually. It supports the idea of all people being initially agender but not asexual (not asexual as in the sexuality but, they have a sex, all people have a sex even intersex people) because, like, fuck m8 I'm drunk but you get the idea right? The biological cause of transsexuality is biological.

>>8811551
Enbies invalidate trans people.
Stop this.

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>>8811951
>do you think an argument could be made that this is linked with hating men?

To some extent, yeah. Some DFAB nonbinaries I've met seemed like legit FtM transsexuals who were shamed into identifying as nonbinary because Tumblr things all men are evil, including trans men who they see as being just as privileged as cis men now.

>feminists hate men is an entry tier meme but I feel as though every day its more and more true

I think the majority of mainstream feminists don't hate men and have pretty reasonable positions, but TERFs and the enby crowd are definitely both nutty. Their ideology is also so similar that I sometimes wonder if the nonbinary trend was covertly pushed by some TERFs in its early stages as a way to discredit the trans rights movement from within. Kind of like how a lot of TERFs and people on the right sarcastically pretended to support Rachel Dolezal because they knew she mad trans people look bad.

Probably not true, but if so then it's genius because it would mean that radfems managed to subtly convert a big chunk of Tumblr to their ideology and succeeded in making a lot of people very anti-trans under the guise of being pro-trans. I mean now Tumblr will even attack you for using terms like "MtF/FtM", "transsexual", etc. or for talking about transsexuality being a medical condition that requires treatment. Yet these people are allegedly pro-trans and some even claim to be trans themselves, lol

>>8811995
They don't though.
If gender don't real then it don't matter if you transition or not, you do what you want, you do what you dictate, you are your own life you are your own god.

>>8812023
Gender identity is real, and it's based in your neurology.

Trans people do not decide to become trans on a whim, they're born with a medical condition that necessitates treatment in order for them to live happy and fulfilling lives. It's not about clothes or social gender roles.

Arguing otherwise is harmful and gives transphobes the justification they need to prevent trans healthcare from being covered by insurance.

>>8811907
Gender roles in Europe were different before and after the rise of Christianity as well, what I'm saying is that despite what minor differences occur between folk and time periods is still a core binary that is masculine and feminine. Even in Iroquois societies where they had matriarchal leaders, the reason they had matriarchal leaders is because the tribe was seen as a communal family unit, and women being the spiritual guides of a community is something seen across all cultures, and their role as leaders in the Iroquois tribes resembles what a mother's role in the traditional family unit would be like regardless. This was similar to how pagan queens would be held in ancient Europe, as they were seen as community leaders and spiritual embodiments of the gods.

>>8811541
I fucking hope so. This shit makes me feel disconnected with reality sometimes. All I want to do is look like a girl in peace.

>>8811601
Wrong. Men and women have substantially different levels of density and activity in different parts of their brains. There IS a male brain and a female brain. Read a book.

>Do you think the nonbinary/genderfluid trend will ever die out?

The concept of a "Third gender" has existed in many cultures throughout history, so no. It's never been a major thing. I see no reason for the concept to die out, especially when it's not at odds with science. There are people with chromosomal issues who are not really clearly men or women.

I've actually been very keen on the idea of a trinary gender system repurposing they/their/them to address said people. The third gender would be a catchall for everybody on tumblr. Databases including sex/gender could be updated simply by adding "X". They would be able to abide by male or female dress codes. Further, all these odd genders would be better served by a catch-all than individualised recognition of genders, due to the rareness of non-binary people. Society can teach people to treat non-binary people a certain way, and then any individualised preferences, a specific non-binary person can explain.

>>8811551
Calling the Gender Binary false is a hell of a thing, <99% of people have either XX or XY chromosomes, so at the very least it's a good abstraction to build off of, even if it's imprecise.

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>>8811541

It will die out. Count on it.

>>8817285
And cis females have "male" chromosomes.
And gender isn't sex.

>>8813824
Did your "book" tell you about the creative left brain and logical right brain, too? The differences between male and female brains are heavily, heavily averaged, and are beyond nothing stacked against individual brain variation. That brain model you see in books? It's a lie. People's brain parts are inconsistent as shit. A non-insignificant chunk of people have their left and right hemispheres flipped for no reason. Individual brains vary so much we have to basically photoshop-strech the brain data we get out of individuals into a "standard brain" called Talairach space. There have been some studies that have claimed to find sex differences, but as is always the case in neuroimaging research, they suffer from a small sample size (running an fMRI can cost hundreds of dollars an hour), and the fact that replications basically never get published so nobody does them. And then on top of the usual bullshit, science isn't actually all that objective because it's performed by humans with pre-existing biases, who interpret data according to their own beliefs. There were legit scientists who "found proof" that African-Americans were biologically inferior.

So yes, there are some studies saying that, if you average the brains of 17 male and 17 female white middle-class college students, averaged again across 150 trials each, there may or may not be enough of a difference in activation in an area the size of a pinhead for 200ms to that we're 95% sure (which is 5% error, one study in 20) is not due to totally random chance.

That is what is meant by "statistically significant difference". Not that men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

Read a journal article and stop quoting shit popsci books from 1993.

>>8811541
if by dissapear you mean from existance, no. if stop being popular edgy way to be cool in high school, definately

>>8811551
>abolishing gender
how in the world would that ever happen?

recognizing gender is a part of our instincts and human nature,.

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>>8811631
>>8811551
>>8811573
>hurrrr durrr everything is a social construct
>being an actual brainwashed leftist from leftypol

How does it feel to be human garbage?

>>8811599
>If the cultural gender is so universal, why is it different in every time period and cultural region on the planet? :^)
It's not.
There are some differences but it is remarkably similar.

>>8811601
>There is no such as a "male" and "female" brain, for example.
What the fuck?
This is horseshit.
Countless studies have been done to debunk this leftist bullshit.

There clearly are male and female brains, estrogen and testosterone clearly have effects on people's personality.

You people are quacks, you worship pseudoscience.

Why are you people neuroscience/instinct denialists?

>>8811625
>>8811619
samefaggot

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>>8811732
>actual reality about human instincts is alt right propaganda

this is hilarious

>>8811828
This post basically destroys any leftist retards that claim gender is a social construct.
All the science is on our side.

>>8811737
>There is zero evidence that gender is real and not just a collective belief.
More leftist pseudoscience.
You social constructionists are so fucking lost it's unreal.

>>8812023
if gender isnt real, dysphoria isn't real, which it is. Go away nb, your personality isnt the same as transgenderism.

>>8811551
This is mostly true, the only thing that matters are male, female, and intersex/hermaphrodites

Gender identity and roles are social constructs.

>>8817880
>Gender identity and roles are social constructs.
We already proved in this thread that they are not.

If you are going to just blatantly say massive amounts of scientific research is false then you're a retard.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=1074721744

All of the research here points to transsexuality being a biological condition, not a social or psychological condition.

>>8817906
That's because Alex Jones was right, even if his phrasing was off. Xenoestrogens are causing environmental damage, and humans are part of the environment.

>>8817906
Being a transsexual is a cosmetic condition and a gender identity. Because of how your brain is you might make the choice to become one. One is not born with HRT and SRS out of the womb.

>>8817872
sex =/= gender
kid

>>8817797
>>8817804
lmao fucking christian retard

>>8817799
>There are some differences
yourself btfo

>>8811601
this is a pretty good documentary on the subject
https://vimeo.com/19707588
>tldr: men and women are different (and norway stopped funding gender studies after this came out)

>>8818142
>gender identity
Yes which is mostly based off genetic/epigenetic/neurological changes in the brain.

Science has already confirmed this.
Are you against science or something?

>One is not born with HRT and SRS out of the womb.
No shit, but some people are born with the desire to be the opposite sex later in life.

Born this way baby.
You social constructionists are pure cancer.

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>>8818200
>christian
lmao I'm not religious, what the fuck
you're the one denying science here

Socialists DO need to be thrown from helicopters though.

>yourself btfo
Except I just btfo you delusional neuroscience/instincts denialists.
Gender is extremely complicated and the delusional leftists that pretend it's purely a social construct are laughable.

They are like creationists.
lmao

>>8818368
Norway, capital of gatekeeping.

>>8818200
>openly deny established science
>call others religious fundamentalists
wew

>>8819904
>gatekeeping
?

>>8811573
>sex =/= gender
No, sex=gender, "gender" is just a euphemism that was repurposed by radicals and your distinction is made up.

>>8819995
Stopping trans people from transitioning.

Gender is more of an outward extension of yourself, like how you represent your identity
Sex is just genitals

who even cares

>>8811660
how about case studies observing the shape of brains from both cis and trans. unfortunately i can't cite this because textbook copies of medical journals are fucking expensive and i'm not in college anymore! And the right wing has made it impossible for college professors to make money without charging so much. i believe in paying for college textbooks with tax money, the right wing wants to fuck students too.

>>8825265
>And the right wing has made it impossible for college professors to make money without charging so much.
Fuck off, the left rendered the professors worthless in the first place. The right is cucked for them to be paid at all.

Hey if gender is all constructed, cant we just cure trans people so they are happy with who they are?

>>8811660
wait... that's a good point. Why aren't we citing these by using google?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

I mean really. Why didn't you idiots cite this article!

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>>8811551
I agree with what you are trying to say even though the way you put it might paint you as a deluded snowflake.

>>8811558
What they are basically saying is that being born with a benis/bagina does not automatically make you destined to either act that way or another which is true. Just because someone is born with a bagina does not mean they will automatically become "nurturing" and "maternal" and only be interested in "people" and if you sincerely believe in this idea of biological determinism you are an idiot, my man.

>>8825285
Gender is a construct, so is a traffic light, and if you ignore either of them, you get hit by cars. Which, also, are constructs.

>>8818194
that literally means nothing, i know
your personality isnt your gender
your gender identity is your internal mechanism and it IS either male or female
your sex is natal sex
your PERSONALITY is whether you feel like blue or pink suits you better, just because you might defy gender ROLES that doesnt give you a new gender

>calling others kids when youre desperately trying to fit into transgenderism just because you like to play with dolls
jesus christ

i'm actually considering calling myself nonbinary, i'll never pass as a woman, because i was forced to transition late at 18, and i'll never be comfortable as a man. something in between doesn't sound that weird for me tbhon

>>8825874
Kill yourself then.

>>8825874
Who made you late transition?

>>8825890
why is this an issue for you?

>>8825918
Because you are an open mockery of us.

>>8825912
a mix of gatekeepign and family issues, don't really wanna go into more details

>>8825935
i'm sorry i guess, i'm just really confused atm

>>8825944
Please give as much detail as you can manage.

>>8825339
>Just because someone is born with a bagina does not mean they will automatically become "nurturing" and "maternal" and only be interested in "people" and if you sincerely believe in this idea of biological determinism you are an idiot, my man.

Nobody is even arguing this you fucking moron.

Men and women have different bodies. That is a biological reality. There are two biological sexes. Some people are born with a neurological condition that makes them want to change the sex they were born as to the opposite sex, because they're uncomfortable with the sex they were born as.

It has *nothing* to do with social gender roles, fuck off with that.

>>8826097
This and also to add to this, breaking social gender roles because that isnt your preference is *not* being transgender. Most social gender roles are based in biologically (boys prefer to play with dinosaurs because theyre more violent and testosterone is related to aggression, girls dolls because estrogen/nurturing), but only a loose tie, i.e they're not absolutes required by anyone of that sex. Society propogates an expectation around those roles, and that is a construct that can be ignored.

>>8826122
tl;dr AGP are trans, HSTS aren't

>>8826129
true

>>8826084
obviously that's none

>>8811541
I really never understood the hatred of gender fluid/non binary people until I just listened to the Iain Dale show on LBC and he was discussing LGBT kids being bullied.
A trans woman called up and spoke about how horrible it is to be misgendered in shops even when you're presenting as female, just because your voice is deep. How it feels worse than being physically assaulted.
She was great and her story really highlighted the difficulties for trans people.

Then some non binary posh boy called up, saying how he doesn't conform to male or female but he feels more female. And how he's fine with being called sir because he looks male.
And I just thought, that's because you're not fucking trans. You're just an attention whore attaching yourself to the trans community to be a special snowflake. He obviously had no idea about how traumatic it must be to be trans.
I'm a cis male so I'm looking at this from the outside.
I think your hatred of these trendies is completely justified and I really wanted to call up and give that idiot a dressing down.

>>8833111
I think this kinda relates to the nature of gender identity

For the most part, gender identity is like, a kidney or something. It's an internal part of you that you can know exists, but you don't really feel it unless something is wrong.

Non-binary people are people who don't feel their gender identity, but feel and dislike their gender role, and so think that means you're trans.

If you can be happy without transitioning, you aren't trans. You're simply not. If your idea of transitioning is just wearing different clothes and acting a bit different, you're still not trans.

Nonbinary people either don't understand that, or are binary trans people but for whatever reason don't want to claim to be.

>>8811541
It'd die out when traditional gender roles do.

>>8833111
Yeah, I dont mind GNC people at all. My problem is how they force themselves into transgenderism. Im not one to invalidate people, it's just I dont understand how it's okay to go

>oh im transgender, I want recognition in the media, representation, I am oppressed, and I want hormones
>how do you know
>oh yknow i always preferred to play with dolls a lot as a kid, oh and i never made any male characters in games
>fuck the gender binary patriarchy btw!!

while trans it's like
>i want hormones
>how do you know
>when i was 12 i stayed up wondering why i felt like crying because i was supposed to grow up as a man

I dont like a lot of the shitty attitudes people have towards people breaking gender roles, like boys playing with pink stuff is fine and the fact that some get relentlessly beaten in school for it (i did) is horrible. But claiming you're literally a whole 56th gender because of it and saying your 5 year old is trans because he plays with dolls is like, surely enforcing that your "gender identity" MUST match your personal preferences over play things?

>>8811541
HOPEFULLY

>>8811541
Yup. So will the "being trans is cool" and "I'll just make my kids trans lol" but it will take about 10+ years for the victims of all this shit to speak out about how they where fucked over. Kinda like the shit ton of intersexuals that got SRS when they where babies (in like the 80's or 90's idk) and want to an hero now.

Consider this

Even if nonbinary genders don't objectively "exist"

We should let people do whatever they want to their bodies/use whatever names or pronouns they want because individuals should have the right to their own bodies and paternalism is bad

>>8834863
We're not post-scarcity though, and their existence is politicized by them. It's not as simple as just letting people do what they want. In my country non-binary people are easily prescribed hormones and they're government subsidised to both menopausal and GNC/trans people. Medical areas regularly run dry of hormones and suffering older women and sufferers of GD are having to figure out what to do, while the government bleeds money from subsidising the medications. GNC people are such lower priority since it's just preference for them, their genders don't exist and neither does dysphoria.

In regards to politics, they argue they're oppressed, that misgendering is an act of violence, etc. When their pronouns aren't the "right" ones in their mind, they're just some fad preference.

We're not in a gay communist automated luxury meme. It's the modern shitty world and and nothing is as simple as just "do what you want :)". Actions = consequences.

You know I've done and continue to work with young and old trans and cis LGB people every day and I've paid my dues to the broader community.

So really most debates and such about my existence aren't all that important.

I want to tell all the other non-binary people who experience Dysphoria along with gender non-conforming people who don't: your identity is real for you and the acceptance of it by others is not important.

I've been on hormones for years since I was 15, I've protested and personally spoken with local and state politicians who've given my orgs that I've worked for over 100k to support the whole LGBTTQQIA community over the years.

Every generation defines for themselves as they are. In less than a decade I will be that old person bucking the young ones but I realize that's social evolution in progress.

Just live and do right in this world, you'll be fine.

But also I don't recommend getting that third gender marker on IDs, that's potentially dangerous.

>>8834912
>But also I don't recommend getting that third gender marker on IDs, that's potentially dangerous.
Why?

>>8811541

I fuckin hope so. Good god it is so damned annoying.