How many trans lives have have been destroyed by radfems? Repressed,

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>>8706773
around 50k trans people are estimated to have died due to TERFs

http://transadvocate.com/50000-deaths_n_8926.htm

As the result of this paper, existing governmental policy was changed so that it

effectively eliminated federal and some states aid for indigent and imprisoned transsexuals. It had a further impact on private health insurance which followed the federal government’s lead in disallowing services to transsexual patients for any treatment remotely related to being transsexual, including breast cancer or genital cancer, as that was deemed to be a consequence of treatment for transsexuality.

– Transsexual, Transgender and Intersex History : Entry on Janice Raymond.

A very, very conservative estimate of the number of additional deaths that resulted is 50,000. The amount of additional misery – incalculable.

>>8706798
Even now there is insurance the repercussions of those policies remain.

sure radfems suck but let's not dance around the fact that everything she wrote about in the transsexual empire has either come true, or is a reality. we have to watch ourself so we don't overstep and put ourselves in front of others

probably should have started off with another radfem

>>8706935
no

>>8706798
The ideas in this never went away. Current feminism still pushes this. The foundational view of "you don't need to transition medically because you're viewing gender on a biological and cultural basis rather than opposing social norms and breaking free" is still pushed. "Women can look like anything, even a man with a beard in a dress who doesn't work on voice should still be given feminine pronouns if they ask" is the exact same idea. Rather than getting rid of trans people, we just floss the group and destroy the meaning of being trans.

Critical Gender Theory in any form is toxic to trans people. Few people understand this. It works within a cis female framework and towards cis female goals, and erases trans people.

>>8706935
>we have to watch ourself so we don't overstep and put ourselves in front of others
Here we have a wonderful example of a Good Transsexual. He recognizes that his needs come after those of women, doesn't contradict women's experience and is careful not to impose himself on women. He knows his place. Good transsexual!

>>8706993
poe's law

>>8706773

not enough

>>8706990
Critical theory is insanity regardless of its forms. No good came from trying to shoehorn Freud and Jung into political discourse. All its done is created a society obsessed to no end with psychoanalyzing others to its end.

>>8706798

kekkity what a bunch of steaming BS

>Persons wishing to change sex come to these clinics or go to individual therapists to receive counseling and ultimately to be referred for treatment and surgery.

oh gee, how repressive. and this paper waas one of dozens that decided trannies were mental cases in terms of gov't aid, not fucking amputees looking for housing

>>8706853
Raymond wasn't the architect of anti-trans insurance in the fedgov no matter how much you need to have a villain, hon. Its total bullshit; lesbians didn't cause your problems lmao


>>8706773
>A very, very conservative estimate of the number of additional deaths that resulted is 50,000.

have terfs played a role in making trannies go to male prisons?

>>8707026
>>>8706773 (OP)
>>A very, very conservative estimate of the number of additional deaths that resulted is 50,000.

this is a complete joke, to be clear, absolute fantasy
>>8707029
>have terfs played a role in making trannies go to male prisons?
>[Post a Reply]
no. reality has tho.

>>8706993
Fuck this shit. Women have always been a privileged class, we should not think twice before stepping in front of them. Women will not die if they don't their women first privilege.

Reminder that if you're falling for the meme that terfs represent feminism, cis women, or cis lesbians in any way then you're buying into terf ideology

>>8707097
Fuck off. All movements birth a fringe. Control your shit or let it overrun you. Those are your two options.

>>8707097
Why don't real Scotsmen, I mean real feminists, stop the Not True Feminists?

>>8707128
they do tho
if you go to most feminist spaces and say you don't want trans women here you'll be booted out.

>>8707136
Cis female Real Feminists do more to stop manspreading and defend affirmative action, which won't help trans women who transition after applying for college, than they do to stop TERFs who you yourself just explained have a veritable genocide on their hands.

I'm really feeling the love from Real Feminists right now.

>>8707160
I never said that they shouldn't be doing more lmao idk where you're getting this from

no matter what cis people do feminism still very much stands behinds trans people

>>8707170
>feminism still very much stands behinds trans people
Yeah, right after it finishes stopping men from sitting without squashing their balls and creating scholarships and other opportunities that lock trans girls out of education and employment. Feminism very much stands behind us! Best place to plant its knife.

>>8707187
I think you probably haven't gotten into feminism that much my dude

>>8707190
I think you're just happy to keep bumping up that 50,000, Uncle Tom.

>>8707198
same

>>8707201
Weird, since I'm the one objecting to transphobia and you're the apologist for it.

>>8707207
gonna have to show me where and in what way im apologizing for transphobia

>>8707210
Nah, I don't think so. Anyone reading this thread and anyone who cares about trans people will see it plain and clear.

>>8707215
ok

>>8707215
I care about trans people and I don't see it. ~50000 sounds low. So please, tell us how that person is apologizing for transphobia

>>8707234
are you retarded? 50000 is a huge amount.

>>8707235
>the reason someone sides with your view is that they shrug at 50k trans deaths
Really makes you think.

>>8706773
I'm ready for TERFs to collectively off themselves like the cult they are

>>8707241
>being a feminist if you're a trans woman is transphobic
>some idiot agrees with you therefore you're transphobic

ok i'm kinda done with this website for today, you people are insane incels lmao

>>8707245
>you people are insane incels lmao
You're really nailing the misandrist feminist act. I don't know if it's to help you fit in as a cis woman or what, but I can totally see where your transphobia comes from, the same place as it does in TERFs.

>>8707245
Yes, it is a lot, and I am agreeing with you. I feel the number is low, I don't know and I don't have the facts. The other anon is saying the number is too high. That anon was calling you out and I was calling them out.

>trans-exclusionary want us dead
>"""pro"""-trans feminist want to import 3rd world savages that want us dea
rly makes u think

>>8707254
oh, my bad, i misunderstood

>>8707261
inb4 the tripfag defends this too

>>8707276
i mean both me and my gf are immigrants so yeah kinda...

>>8707280
That actually reveals a lot. Your views are based on what suits you personally. So as a woman you are happy with misandry and as a post-transition trans woman most of the direct impact of your transphobia will harm other trans women, not those in your position.

Who cares how high the 50k grows as long as it doesn't include you.

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>>8707294
I'm not post-transition but anyway if you think trans women who haven't finished their transition don't suffer from transmisogyny (which is the unique mixture of misogyny, transphobia and homophobia that affects amab trans people) then idk you seem to not be very knowledgeable on the subject at all.

Actually, you probably think that people society perceives as men not being allowed to be visibly GNC is a result of "misandry" right? Definitely not because femininity is seen as "less" than masculinity so someone foregoing their masculinity loses respect from patriarchical society?

lol

>>8707301
Yeah I've definitely got a picture of the kind of transmisogyny you are.

>>8707301
Okay, what is the value of femininity in current year?

>>8707313
2 euros and 67 cents per to 1 fem

>>8707315
Ur a funny guy, but can you answer my question.
How society benefits from femininity?

>>8707317
it's super valuable currency, like it's stronger than both the euro, the pound and the dollar holy shit

>>8707325
That's not how a currency's value works, that's exchange rate, but with that tripcode I'm probably wasting my breath.

>>8707325
If you don't have an argument to make, you could at least modified your memey respose to match what I wrote.

>>8707332
>expecting commies to understand economics

>>8707325
Sertii you're good actually

>>8707338
>t.serti
inb4 poorly edited screencap

>>8707332
the value of money can actually definitely be determined by its exchange rate tho
>>8707337
dude this motherfucker has been busting my balls with insane bullshit for the past hour im gonna shitpost as much as i want
>>8707338
thank u too

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>>8706773
>wear short skirts
>use make-up excessively
>get boob implants
>act out a caricature mannerisms of women
>"We're not objectifying women I swear"
>"It's the patriarchy even though we're born male and reinforcing the stereotypes"

>>8707346
>dude this motherfucker has been busting my balls with insane bullshit for the past hour im gonna shitpost as much as i want
I think you are mistaking me for someone else
my first reply to you was(>>8707313).

If you think that society is unfair in how it values femininity, you should be able to explain this (even if factually incorectly) in your own words.

>>8707360
i did here
>>8707301

if it wasn't valued as lesser than masculinity by society then amab-passing people wouldn't receive more flak for being visibly GNC than afab-passing people

i thought it was pretty obvious but apparently not

>>8707356
>cis women acts sexual
muh strong independynt womyn
>trans woman acts sexual
patriarchy! objectification! caricature!

>>8707356
>wear short skirts
>use make-up excessively
>get boob implants
>act out a caricature mannerisms of women
Cis women also do all of this.

>>8707364
I agree that it is valued less, but I asked you to justify it being valued equally.

>>8707367
why wouldn't it

>>8706773
What exactly are her theories? Can someone give me a basic rundown or an article about her?

>>8707368
Because I don't think it contribute as much to society as masculinity does.

>>8707097
You're appropriating women's experiences from a position of male privilege and surprised that feminists are upset at you?

>>8707371
well yeah that's what patriarchal society wants you to think

>>8707374
So explain to me why I shouldn't think this.

>>8707376
because you don't actually have a solid reason to believe this other than a vague feeling which is what society taught you to

>>8707382
Sounds like your justification for thinking you are a woman (you are a man).

>>8707373
Most feminists aren't though. The vast majority are pro-trans.

>>8707373
no, we aren't appropriating anything because we are women. We do not have male privilege. And most feminists disagree with you because bio-essentialism (defining women solely by their biology) is something the patriarchy does for the benefit of men.
>>8707384
>ur a man
lmao

>>8707382
Burden of proof is on those that challenge status quo.

I also do have a solid reasons to believe this.

No one values femininity even feminists.

>>8707396
You literally are a man to those of us who are not paid to humor your psychosis.

>>8707396
>bio-essentialism (defining women solely by their biology) is something the patriarchy does for the benefit of men
how does this suppose to work

>>8707365
>implying you're women
>>8707366
Not all women, all of you trannies do this shit.

>>8707399
you mean psychoanalyzing like every other cuck in this society looooool

keep guessing nigga

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>>8707399
>Burden of proof is on those that challenge status quo.
i mean no, burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim i.e the status quo
>I also do have a solid reasons to believe this.
do you now
>No one values femininity even feminists.
it's actually true that parts of the feminist movement did reject all femininity because it was seen as imposed by men, modern feminism has moved away from this idea though.
>>8707401
the two things *men* care most about in women (sex and reproduction) are conveniently the ones women are defined by. A woman who is infertile is often seen as less of a woman and a lesbian is often stripped of her womanhood as well
>>8707400
look i'm pretty confident in my womanhood i'm not that new to this, this doesn't work on me lol.

>>8707408
I'm aware you have an autistic fixation that you are a woman but you are still medically of the male sex.

>>8707396
>We do not have male privilege.

>>8707418
medically that would be wrong
>>8707419
you can't have male privilege if you arent male tho

>>8707431
You are male. Your bone structure is male, your chromosomes are male.

>>8707431
>you can't have male privilege if you arent male tho
but stigma against feminine male is still misogyny, not misandry. funny!

>>8706773
Why do TERFs always look like repressing FtMs?

>>8707438
A significant percentage of the time they are, or detransitioned ones.

>>8707436
>Your bone structure is male
I'd say it's probably androgynous, i have a trans guy friend who's afab and he's equally as tall as me and his hips are less wide so idk you're wrong there. He also just started T at 20 so you can't really say its because of that either.
>your chromosomes are male
probably, I haven't tested them. This doesn't matter much though, because chromosomes don't mean much because hormones are what regulates your gene expression. The idea that chromosomes = biology has been discredited long ago by biologists.

>>8707437
I never talked about feminine males though. I specifically avoided wording it that way. I talked about "people society perceives as male"

>>8707442
Chromosomes do a lot to regulate your gene expression, especially since the critical period for determining that is mostly fetal and at the very least determined fully by puberty.

Bones are fixed by the time you are 20 mostly.

You are perceived as male by everyone who is not humoring your sad delusions but you will never speak your own truth, saddest of all.

>>8707437
>>8707450
>Actually, you probably think that people society perceives as men not being allowed to be visibly GNC is a result of "misandry" right? Definitely not because femininity is seen as "less" than masculinity so someone foregoing their masculinity loses respect from patriarchical society?

>>8707454
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
whatever you say my dude
>>8707457
thank you yeah

>>8707396
>>ur a man
>lmao
>>8707461
>my dude

>>8706935
>let's not dance around the fact that everything she wrote about in the transsexual empire has either come true
How did this get no replies.

What did Raymond predict that came true? I'm curious.

>>8706773
I became a misogynist repressor

Jokes on them.

>>8707402
>Not all women, all of you trannies do this shit.
Nope. Still wearing generic clothing. Still acting like a normal fucking human being. Probably not getting breasts implants. I use barely any make-up.

>>8707513
Should have become a misogynist transitioner.

>>8707466
>namefags
>not hypocrites

>>8707356
>get boob implants
no (heard of mones???)
>excessive makeup
I wonder why

Bait score: D- (back to pol)

>>8707461
Behind the pills, paint, and lies, is a real man who knows he is a man and just wants to be accepted as a man. Maybe someday you will get in touch with him again, but I think you get off on the fantasy too hard to connect with reality again judging by the fact that you are a tripfag on 4chan.

>>8707408
>i mean no, burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim
No, originally it was your claim that society values femininity unfairly. You didn't present anything and your only argument was reverse ad populum.
>modern feminism has moved away from this idea though
pop feminism=modern feminism
ok, I guess

>the two things *men* [aka society] care most about in women (sex and reproduction) are conveniently the ones women are defined by. A woman who is infertile is often seen as less of a woman and a lesbian is often stripped of her womanhood as well
And you know why this is? Because only thing that modern "feminine" woman contributes to society is her biological functions. So it is logical that if you can't use those functions and don't contribute anything else you are of very little use to society.

>>8707457
femininity != femaleness, a feminine person is largely useless, females are just given leeway for that because they can carry babies

>>8706798
50k seems way too low. People have been dealing with these issues for ages. At least before christ. I don't know how you could get a measurement for the number of suicides triggered by gender dysphoria through history, but 50k is just a drop in the barrel.

>>8707943

zero is a good number. zero trans people have been killed by radfems

>>8706773
As a FtM radfems have always been downright horrible to me. They don't give a shit about "females" who don't fit their agenda. They just want to push their black and white fucked up worldview.

>>8708023
Lmao okay

>>8708023
Zero people have been killed by Hitler by that logic.

>>8708039
So how FtM fit into TERF viewpoint?

>>8708095
The same way whites who support jews fit into the /pol/ viewpoint.

They're considered traitors to their sex, and degenerates who have fallen for patriarchal lies.

>>8706935
Hello, fellow transsexualer! I too think we have to ensure that getting ourselves medical care and societal acceptance shouldn't come at the cost of radfems being annoyed. We wouldn't want to do that, after all!

>>8707107
>>8707097


It's hard to fight the ideas of a loud minority- all you can really do is be yourself, and people around you will know the truth.

Personally, some of the most accepting people I've known have been feminist cis lesbians- some of them being downright misandrists. Many of them knew me before I transitioned, and they accept me despite that.

They can no more control TERFs than we can control the college liberal trenders who say their pronouns are "xer" or whatever

>>8707402
Yeah, TERFs don't.
No implants for me btw and I didn't have to consciously change my mannerisms.

>>8707235
I don't think anon meant 50k seems like an negligible amount of deaths, but that the actual number is likely to be much greater.

>>8707400
>not paid to humor your psychosis.
Conspiracy theories.

>>8707549
I wear jeans and a t-shirt generally. Am I no longer trutrans?

I do wear some makeup, but that's mostly just to help my face look more smooth. I did that before I realized I was trans.

>>8707454
>Chromosomes do a lot to regulate your gene expression
Everybody has an X chromosome. The Y is degenerate with only a few genes. Unique genes on the Y trigger development of undifferentiated gonads into testes and are important for fertility, but other than that the male/female chromosome difference isn't an issue.

>>8707905
>feminine person is largely useless,
Mysogynist much?

>>8707373
>male privilege
>existing
Nothing funnier than the tyrants claiming their chattel is privileged.

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>>8707551

Meanwhile, trannies are actually killing actual women and lesbians all the time:

Dana Rivers
Synthia Blast
Donna Perry

sick fucks

>>8706773
not nearly as many as have died under th patiarchy. pick your battles.

>oy vey at least 50000 trans gurls have been MURDERED by evil terfs
get a grip

0 (zero) transwomen have died because of terfs, ALL TRANS MURDERS HAVE BEEN COMMITTED BY YOUR FELLOW MEN. Like all violence, it's male violence.

>>8708395
Yes, those are sick fucks. Has nothing whatsoever to do with me or most trans people.

>>8708426
>TERFs are literally siding with the nazis now
ayyy

>>8708592
TERFs have never been far away from nazi or alt-right ideology in some aspects

The core belief of a TERF is that a woman is defined solely by her biology. They say trans people are not women because they do not have ovaries, they cannot produce children- the clear result of this, of course, is that a woman is defined by her ability to produce children.

That idea sounding familiar from any other groups?

In seeking to fight trans people, TERFs end up fighting the ideas of feminism, and end up fighting for the kinds of things MGTOW or alt-rightists fight for

Alternatively, they say "you weren't raised and socialized as women!"

But regarding that, there is no one way that women are raised or socialized. In doing so, they end up saying "if you aren't a middle class white American (because let's be honest, TERFs generally are), you aren't actually a woman"

>>8707418
Do dictionaries describe the world, or create it, anon?

i dont think anyone cares about terfs. cis people hate them even more than trannies

>>8708395
A women's march speaker is a convicted murderer who kidnapped and tortured a man to death.

Then she was a celebrated frontwoman for the largest feminist event in recent history.

Feminists need to deal with their misandry before whining about anyone else's violence.

>>8707026
>>8707038
>these terfs just posting 'no u' because everything they want to deny is provably true

>>8707097
>if you're falling for the meme that terfs represent feminism
>if you're falling for the meme that communist countries represent communism
>if you're falling for the meme that islamists represent islam

anyone got more to add?

>>8710400
yeah right. that's why r/gendercritical is growing every day. because everyone hates us.

>>8712256
>r/gendercritical
>cis people

>>8708395
>killing actual women
Based trannies

I told you guys murder was justifiable sometimes

but you're always all "guns are bad" "don't kill or be killed goyim"

tsk tsk

>>8712301
Justified "murder" is called killing. It's called murder only if it's unlawful.

>>8712303
Id argue you can have morally justified but still illegal killing ie justified murder

>>8712306
Arguably the only law is God's law, which is synonymous with moral law.

>>8712303
Murder may be unlawful, but sometimes not-murdering is immoral. Don't you understand? Don't you have a sense of priority? Will you watch your kin die because you're afraid of the law?

How can you claim to deserve freedom or safety or happiness if you do nothing while others suffer? What if you need someone to fight for you, and there's no one there?

Think about what's really important and make your own decision. Don't beg and plead for change. Act.

To say that a transwoman has male privilege is the epitome of unironic transphobia. It honestly shows the puritanical mindset of the TERF and those of similar mindsets quite well.

Let's say we exist in a world of TERF ideology being correct: patriarchy has been subjugating womyn for all of time and women need to rebel against men. Supposedly they care for the well-being of women, but they were quick to direct their scorn at trans people as some kind of Commie or Juden stand-in. An ideology that truly cared for women would care to deeply question if we were women, sincerely with an open mind. To not be so quick to hate and violence, to unironic genocide of potential women. TERFs have no duty to women, simply a duty against men--it is a hateful, backwards ideology rooted in an insidious take on critical theory.

The same argument can be made for TRUTRANS but I'm actually trans and have dysphoria and that's what makes you trans, but you can have a benis and be a woman.

>>8712383
For TERFs trannies are what right-wing Jews are for alt-right.

>>8707301
>Actually, you probably think that people society perceives as men not being allowed to be visibly GNC is a result of "misandry" right? Definitely not because femininity is seen as "less" than masculinity so someone foregoing their masculinity loses respect from patriarchical society?

So a century ago, when western women first started being GNC en masse by wearing trousers, cutting their hair short, acting more independent and assertive, etc, the huge societal backlash against it was actually misandry, not misogyny?

>>8712524
No that was also misogyny because women were oppressed for being lesser.

>>8712524
dumb poster

>>8712471
No, that's men. Trannies are the Jews who pretend to be right-wing.

>>8712535
>phenotypically male people being ridiculed for acting typically feminine is misogyny

>phenotypically female people being ridiculed for acting typically masculine is also misogyny

Sounds like a double standard to me.

>>8712524 >>8712535
D E B U N K E D
E
B
U
N
K
E
D

>>8712544
The normal force is just an illusion created by gravity. Patriarchy is a one way force. There's only one standard.

>>8712544
Everything is patriarchy and it can't be a double standard because a double standard = power + double standards.

>>8712535
literally kys