https://reneejg.net/2017/02/07/a-call-to-feminists-to-remember-the-history-and-sex-based-nature-of-womens-oppression/
"When it comes to modern trends like transgenderism, we cannot separate the male desire for access to women’s spaces and for uterus transplants, from a history of patriarchal appropriation (including “prosthetic womb” imitations). We cannot separate this movement from the entire history that precedes it, of the simultaneous mining of women’s bodies and undermining of women’s worth."
>>8686475
>medical advancement is misogyny
Feminists are literally retarded.
>transgenderism
Stopped reading there
>>8686504
It's the easiest way to filter out dumbasses
>>8686537
that's true
>>8686481
"1873 marked the publication of Dr. Robert Battey’s invention of ‘female castration’: the removal of women’s ovaries to “cure insanity”. Male gynecologists have since routinely pathologised, and medically and surgically tortured and injured women and women’s bodies through violent childbirth practices, radical mastectomies and hysterectomies, electro- and hormone “therapy”, and lobotomies."
>>8686475
Gay guy here. Can someone give me a basic rundown of radfem arguments I can use against degenerate trannies?
Quotes?
Articles by well-known radfems?
>>8686568
read the whole article and you will be set
>>8686565
How many lesbians were given ECT to cure them?
>>8686577
Isn't this more against female to male transition than male to female transition? Do you have an article more specifically concerned with feminist views on male to female transition by radfems?
>>8686585
They mainly don't like MtFs because they are socialized as men, and then try and barge into women's spaces and make them all about their tranny issues.
Yes, Trans women experience discrimination, but its not the same type of discrimination that cis females do, especially in regards to things like birth control/abortions.
>>8686568
Gay guy here. Why do you care so much?
>>8686630
Trans is gay erasure.
>>8686636
>HURR DURR I'M RETARDED
No really, why?
>>8686606
>not having access to abortion is discrimination
Fucking kek, I'm pro-choice but that argument is retarded
>>8686644
The argument I've seen (not guy who posted this) is that basically trans is a way to explain away gender non-conformity and body issues by combining them and then saying "oh no you're a straight woman, not a gay guy"
>>8686647
How exactly is it retarded?
>>8686649
>>8686647
read the article
>>8686649
So? Retards say all kinds of retarded shit. If someone told me I wasn't a poor disadvantaged white guy, I was just a black person. I wouldn't waste my time with an argument.
>>8686481
you gotta have special frame of mind
>hate the entire sex/gender (likely due to history of abuse)
>get brainwashed into believing 'patriarchy' is the devil
>throw in some basic postmodernist education where everything is a subjective interpretation
>see the entire world from this point
>even everything positive and universally good is a product of oppressive patriarchal system
if anything this qualifies for pathological phobia based on a psychological trauma, it doesn't have to be rational
>>8686636
and gays are just men trying to escape the demands of feminism %)))
look up classic feminists antigay rhetoric, shits crazy
>>8686644
The majority of trans individuals are, biologically speaking, gay males who refuse to identify as such.
>>8686649
It is a response to severe body dysmorphia, which almost all gay guys experience to some degree.
It is a way of fixating on feminine aspects and making them into a lifetime quest to turn everything around to relate to effeminate personality traits.
It is also a way of conforming to traditional gender roles. In Iran, the only way to marry as a gay male, is to have sex change surgery.
Having to be castrated before you can fall in love is a dangerously repressive ideal.
I have also seen studies saying that autism relates into the gender fixation by looking at effeminate traits (reflexively) in males through a black-or-white only lens. That is, if you have some feminine traits, you must be ALL feminine, or else you cannot resolve (psychologically) the conflict of having both masculine and feminine traits.
>>8686636
HSTS aren't the same as gay men.
>>8686723
Explain how they are physically different apart from their refusal to identify as gay men.
>>8686727
Idk what you mean by "physically different", their self-contexutalization around men and their attraction to men/approach toward/type of men is innately different.
>>8686733
Ok so they see themselves differently but they are, biologically speaking, men who prefer to have sex with other men.
>>8686727
How are gay men "physically different" from straight men?
>>8686733
There is no difference except that they decide they will have more social or sexual success as women and gay men who are cis do not.
>>8686735
yes, they're only "homosexual" in that that word literally implies attraction to one's natal sex.
>>8686703
>The majority of trans individuals are, biologically speaking, gay males who refuse to identify as such.
I disagree. I think they are autistic males who are obsessed with living out a gender fanfiction.
>>8686772
I wanted to say that but usually /tttt/ rees at me because only 8% of trans actually apparently meet the diagnostic threshold for clinical full blown autism even if most have some degree of it.
So yeah, not disagreeing that autism is a proximate cause of translating body dysmorphia into "gender dysphoria".
>>8686703
>The majority of trans individuals are, biologically speaking, gay males who refuse to identify as such.
[citation needed]
>>8686568
Daily reminder that "TERFs" are just female basement-dwelling legbeards who complain about "men" the same way /pol/tard neckbeards can't stop complaining about "kikes."
>>8686829
The majority of trans individuals are, biologically speaking, male homosexuals, no?
>>8686843
The difference is /pol/ will never manage to put the KKK into office.
>>8686849
The only think repeating a claim is evidence of is that you have no evidence.
>>8686864
Are you saying the majority of trans are not MTF or that they are not, biologically speaking, gay males?
https://youtu.be/_rGs4ysA2_M
>>8686851
they got trump in, he's close enough
>>8686868
I'm gay and Trump caused me to change my voter registration to Republican. I doubt I am alone.
>>8686868
>he's close enough
...
>>8686867
I'm asking what your evidence is for your claim that they are.
Apparently the answer is none.
>>8686926
Like which part are you disputing? It is commonly accepted that a majority of transgender individuals are both biologically male and also attracted to males. How is this even disputed?
>>8686971
I am a gay man...
>>8686937
>It is commonly accepted
[citation needed]
>>8687005
Like which part of this are you disputing? Both aspects? That MTF identification is more common than FTM AND that most biological males who are trans are also homosexual? I can find a ton of studies showing MTF frequency is way more common than FTM but I think it is just generally understood that most MTF are homosexual. You could be right, that the number of fetishistic transvestites could be higher than homosexual MTF but I have not come across great numbers for that.
>>8687005
https://thetaskforceblog.org/2013/06/05/wonky-wednesday-trans-people-sexual-orientation/
I'm not even sure which category means they are same-sex attracted with regards to birth sex but whether it is gay or straight it is one of those + queer + bisexual so about 75% of trans are gay with regards to birth sex.
https://thetaskforceblog.org/2013/06/05/wonky-wednesday-trans-people-sexual-orientation/
and
https://tgmentalhealth.com/tag/prevalence/
ergo, most transgender individuals are homosexual with regards to birth sex.
>>8687051
>>8687016
It sounds like you don't know where to look because it's well known.
>>8687069
Also the whole thing is a clusterfuck. Either people prefer the same sex, the opposite sex, or both.
Identifying as "queer" or "straight trans" is a way of deliberately obfuscating around the fact that one is gay.
>>8687071
Seen it. Point stands.
>>8687078
How? What point? You don't have a point.
>>8687074
honestly using "gay" and "straight" for trans people is tricky, because it's unclear whether it's in reference to your sex or gender (and how people interpret it depends on their political leanings). it's much easier to say whether you're attracted to men, women, or both.
>>8687134
I looked it up, what is your point? Are you still disputing that most trans individuals are biologically gay males?
we wouldnt need to take on the roles of women if women had done their jobs and maintained the gender status quo. critically questioning gender made this situation. if the feminists hadnt rejected those roles by taking on bizarre and extreme feminism that has rejected the right of some women to be homemakers and baby factories and insisted women have to be like men, doing everything and anything to their best potential rather than focusing on things women actually care about (nurturing family, being the support of a community, being the archetype of motherly wisdom)
its their own goddamn fault for making men weak and questioning their motives ad nauseum. if you bust balls long enough the balls get destroyed and make transgender people.
>>8687074
in what worls is what youre saying not sophistry and nonsense, "x is not x, x is y, all trannies are y, because x is actually y; almost no trannies are actually x because theyre secretly y because x is actually y." its just a no true scotsmen for transgender sexuality with lame circular reasoning that you can ad hoc every time someone refutes you, "queer is gay," "bi is gay," "straight is gay," "asexual is gay." its easy to emulate this thinking because its simple and dumb
>>8687159
Why would a straight person identify as queer? It means gay but I don't want to say so.
>>8687162
what the fuck? fuck off /pol/ with your not understanding what words mean and strawman, "bisexuals and queers dont exist" bullshit
>>8687157
Are you still unable to cite it? Spoilers: Yes.
>>8687177
no you cited things that mention mostly queer and bisexual and other shit as the primary and then redefined those as "gay" which contradicts
>You are either attracted to men, women, or both.
you said "both" was "men"
>>8687177
>moving the goalposts
We're done here.
>>8687203
>>8687207
Like what the hell is wrong with you people? Most trans are attracted to men and are biologically men. If you are claiming that most are attracted to women and/or are biologically women please cite me some data that shows that.
The study was incredibly poorly worded because it didn't just ask people if they were primarily attracted to men or women.
Regardless, it indicates most transgender are primarily, or partially attracted to men and are themselves assigned male at birth.
Lmao, feminists have demonized men for years and now they're angry that they have to compete with transwomen. It's interesting how they weren't talking about this back when gender reassignment technology was more primitive and knowledge of transgender people was largely out of the public. Now all of a sudden trannies are the biggest threat to women.
Part of me thinks they're mad about having to compete with faggots. Cis women have not only been the gate keepers when it comes to heteronormative love and relationships in our societies, but also to reproduction. Artificial womb technology has the potential to shatter that, and allow any couple to procreate.
>>8687239
In what universe is a biological male who primarily has sex with other males a "heternormative" love?
>>8687239
TERFs are fucking terrified of artificial wombs and sex robots. They think it's erasing women - which is a very shallow way to view femaleness imo
>>8687216
Like sorry I don't spend my days research trans people. If you have casual access to data on the birth sex and sexual orientation of trans people then feel free to post it instead of berating me.
>>8687244
A world in which you no longer need women for procreation. Certainly not any time soon but possible in a couple hundred years if we don't kill ourselves in nuclear hellfire.
>>8687249
Name a single trans woman who has gotten pregnant.
>>8687239
>Part of me thinks they're mad about having to compete with faggots.
Feminism is the world's most successful trade union for sex workers.
>>8687259
What percent of transgender individuals participate in sex work?
>>8687252
Did you miss the part where I said "in a couple hundred years"? You understand the concept of technological advancement, don't you?
>>8687278
So furthering the idea that trans is a gender fantasy for autistic gay males?
>>8687246
Exactly, artificial wombs should be a good thing from a feminist perspective, since they would liberate women from the burden of childbirth. The TERF attitude seems to basically be that the womb is the primary source of a woman's value, and if an alternative came up women would have no value. That seems more like a MGTOW/r9k mentality, whereas feminism is supposed to be about affirming women as complete human beings in their own right, independent of their reproductive ability.
>>8687283
Not them but ????
>>8687297
How common is a fantasy of getting pregnant for HSTS?
>>8687283
Maybe that is what it is. I don't know dude, I don't understand humanity anymore
>>8687292
And the trans view is that being able to bear live young is of no importance to gender differences?
Also, not my fucking fault if these studies operationalize their variables in a shitty manner rather than just asking male to female trans if they are more attracted to males or females rather than bombarding us with meaningless categories like pansexual and queer. Either one is more attracted to males, or females. Most research has shown that self-identifying male bisexuals are primarily aroused by other males.
>>8687321
https://www.scholars.northwestern.edu/en/publications/sexual-arousal-patterns-of-bisexual-men
There has long been controversy about whether bisexual men are substantially sexually aroused by both sexes. We investigated genital and self-reported sexual arousal to male and female sexual stimuli in 30 heterosexual, 33 bisexual, and 38 homosexual men. In general, bisexual men did not have strong genital arousal to both male and female sexual stimuli. Rather, most bisexual men appeared homosexual with respect to genital arousal, although some appeared heterosexual. In contrast, their subjective sexual arousal did conform to a bisexual pattern. Male bisexuality appears primarily to represent a style of interpreting or reporting sexual arousal rather than a distinct pattern of genital sexual arousal.
>>8687051
>queer
since when autism is a sexual orientation?
>>8687239
>Cis women have not only been the gate keepers when it comes to heteronormative love and relationships in our societies, but also to reproduction
funny how these 'progressive' societies are failing and dropping birthrates below replacement level while traditional ones are only growing
there will be no artificial wombs, there is return to traditional values and religion, liberalism and atheism are evolutionary dead-ends
>the first atheistic societies have only emerged in Europe in the last few decades. They are the least efficient societies ever known at turning resources into offspring
http://quillette.com/2017/06/14/are-liberals-dying-out/
>>8689261
Societies that are progressive have lower birth rates and a higher quality of life. Sounds just fine to me.
>>8687268
a lot. goes to show you how how little society values women, huh?
>>8687283
maybe for some. I do believe gender identity disorder is a real medical condition though. You can be a mtf and still have toxic male socialization though, which is annoying in female only spaces.
>>8694280
>which is annoying in female only spaces.
You can't exclude someone for their socialization no matter what. As you say GID is real. Would you exclude a cis woman from female spaces if she identified as an anti-feminist or had a hairstyle you disliked or anything else you just "found annoying"?
>>8694309
yes, i would. women can be anti feminists too.
>>8694319
Hardly women's spaces then. More "people who agree with me" spaces, and the only one of those that has a right to exist is your home.
Daily reminder that "liberals" and leftists are just overgrown children. Right-wingers need to step up and take charge before they destroy us all.
>>8694329
no, its an organization. Generally organizations form because society is in opposition to their views. Cis women get treated as second class citizens in society, which is something mtfs are blind to due to their overwhelming desire not to be seen as men. They are right in thinking they are also descrimnated against, but they are wrong in thinking it's a women's issue. Actually, the kind of people who bash on trannys see them as failed men, so it's actually just standard LGBT hate issue. Go talk to an lgbt group. feminisim is for talking about the problems associated with being cis and female in a patriarchal society. If you refuse to see this as a real and valid fight, im sorry but women 's spaces are not for you.
But let me ask you something:if women's spaces were 100% open to any tranny who considered themselves feminine , what would that really add to the dialog? Think about it for a minute.
honestly, it would just become another LGBT. and if you have not noticed, almost EVERY thread here is mtf related, and when someone tries to make a thread about something else, it becomes a mini mtf gen anyway.
idk, i think cis women fight a different fight than trans women, and it's ok to acknowledge that.
>>8694382
intp and liberal.
what is this fake news you are propagating?
>>8694414
If it's a woman's organization is how no place excluding women for their political views like anti-feminism.
If it's a feminist organization it has no place excluding women for their natal sex like trannies.
>>8694420
>intp and liberal.
So? You really don't know what a statistical outlier is?
>>8694432
this is a chart from silicon valley, which is a libertarian region of california . This chart is not accurate representation as a whole, and you can't apply its findings too broadly.
Moreover, I don't really see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand.
>>8686475
Bumping yourself is exactly what got you banned last time. Disgusting pedophil. Everyone report.