I'm starting to think hugboxing is good. If people who get

Cis les here, I agree
Support non-passing sisters, being a woman isn't just about looking like an anime

>>8621267
yes it is. people who dont try deserve to die. theyre ruining it for people who try. they want rights and privileges without clawing their way up

>>8621384
Some people will just never pass, no matter how hard they try. That's just reality. They don't deserve to be punished for that. Effort should be rewarded imo

>>8621384
There's more to life than beauty..

>>8621391
>Some people will just never pass, no matter how hard they try
time to kms

>>8621267
>being a woman isn't just about looking like an anime
So what's the rest?

>>8621481
Looking like an MMO

>>8621258

Agreed.

Internet culture in general and chans in particular seem to shun kindness for some reason.

Hugboxing is toxic and I'm going to explain why. Sure, criticism can hurt, often it's given in a destructive form. But without constructive criticism, there is absolutely zero room for improvement. The hon in question will continue to go about life thinking everything is okay while being a general eyesore because they are being told it's alright to not put in any effort. A Hugboxing environment will fuel these delusion prone entities and make everyone around them, totally uncomfortable. Know what works for you, be it what type of clothes you can wear for your body type. A hairstyle that doesn't draw attention to your hairline. What amount of makeup is truly everyday appropriate. Nobody is going to progress in their transition if you don't make them aware of what they could improve on. Nobody said you had to be mean when you do it.
If being told lies every single day is what you need to have happen in order to be happy, then you need to re-evaluate your life.

>>8621546
I think people come here to bitch about things they can't bitch about elsewhere. Or at least I know that's why I'm here.

>>8621607
You can help someone look the best they can without tearing them down. You have to accept that some people won't pass no matter what.

>>8621607
Also just let me add that the thing about beauty is that there is no actual "truth". It's largely socially constructed.

>>8621607

I agree with the necessity of criticism and how important it is to know how to take it, but there needs to be a balance and some care to go with that.

I'm the harsh honesty type too, myself.

>>8621391
They do, though. I'll grant older hons a bit more leniency because they couldn't have transitioned nearly as easily before the internet, but anyone <30 today and doesn't pass brought it on themselves. Self medding and the resources to guide you there was easy even in the early 2000s. Instead, they """repressed""" and chose to embrace toxic masculinity and male privilege. Ever wonder why hons act like men and treat women like trash? It's because you can't undo male socialization. Those who don't pass deserve to be misgendered because they're men, plain and simple.

>>8621648
Nice le ebin troll post xd

>I'll grant older hons a bit more leniency because they couldn't have transitioned nearly as easily before the internet, but anyone <30 today and doesn't pass brought it on themselves
See, this is complete bullshit. Some people just lose the genetic lottery. Some realize too late. Some just live in conservative hellholes where acting on their wishes is impossible. Some are kept back by toxic ideas they were brought up with.

>Ever wonder why hons act like men and treat women like trash?
I'm wondering why you're advocating for treating women like trash if they're ugly..

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>>8621487
>tfw I look like an anime MMO.

>>8621679
I transitioned at 14 in the 2000s, in a toxic environment surrounded by unsupportive family. I left them at 16 and clawed my way back up to normal society. Passing is my reward. Hons who took the cowardly path shouldn't be rewarded for that. And """realizing""" you were trans when it was too late? What the fuck is this.
Also, passing != pretty, just as non-passing != ugly.

>>8621700
Confirmed cis

>>8621719

Why are you being such an asshole ? Different people have different circumstances. You made it, good for you. Not everyone can be as strong. Strength of will and resilience are also a lottery.

>>8621719
>Hons who took the cowardly path shouldn't be rewarded for that.
You're punishing people for being born with a medical condition and, by pure chance, lacking the knowledge, tools or conviction to treat it early.

>And """realizing""" you were trans when it was too late? What the fuck is this
Repression is a thing, especially among people who don't know a lot about being trans.

>Also, passing != pretty, just as non-passing != ugly.
There are some rare cis women who look like "unpassable" transwomen so no, it is exactly pretty vs ugly.

>>8621628
I litteraly said that you don't have to be mean when you do it. Even if someone has a high chance of never passing, that's not an excuse to just give up and put forth zero effort.
Thanks for paying attention.
>>8621644
You say this yet you just called me a sociopath in another thread.

>>8621775

I know, I'm sorry. I judged your character a bit too fast :c

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Someone hugbox me please

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>>8621267
>Support non-passing sisters
G-gee thanks.
t. hopeless hon

>>8621735
Fortune favors the bold. Who dares wins. God helps those who help themselves. Etc. Cowards deserve the worst, honestly.
>>8621751
>lacking the knowledge, tools or conviction to treat it early.
That's bullshit. Resources were available online since the early 2000s. Literally all you had to do was google something like "I want to be a girl." One common excuse I hear is that Susan's and Laura's were the top results, but all you had to do was look below them. /cd/ was a thing. Hell, even /b/ often had trap threads. There were tons of online forums that discussed it as well, and IRC channels and Usenet groups aplenty. And yes, many of these did have younger transitioners. Beyond these, QHI and ADC existed in the early 2000s as well.
>repression
See above.

>>8621821

I guess you'll never be on board with my view. I'm not one to cajole "hons", as you guys call them, but you seem to be excessively bitter about them.

Why so excessive ?

>>8621859
Because, as far as the <30 crowd goes, they're constantly complaining about how they were "born too early" or "didn't know they were trans." I'm not really bitter about them. I just don't think they deserve to be treated the same as passers do.

As for the >30 hons? I don't fault them for the same reasons as the younger ones, but I dislike them for a number of reasons: A) they make other trans people look bad in the eyes of society, thus encouraging discrimination and prejudice against even passing trans people, and B) many of them actively try to sabotage or block younger trans people from transitioning. See Susan's for a good idea of what I mean.

>>8621821
>That's bullshit. Resources were available online since the early 2000s.
How naive can you get? Do you think everyone were on the internet since the early 2000s? Do you think everyone immediately accept themselves for what they are? Do you think that, even with a vague idea of what being trans means, everyone immediately applies it to themselves rather than repressing it because they can't deal with it? What of those brought up in very religious or conservative households? What of those who hated themselves too much to act? Hell, what of adult-onset dysphoria?

Weakness deserves compassion, not contempt. That you managed something does not make those who did not less human or worthy of love.

>>8621821
>Cowards deserve the worst, honestly.
Then I deserve my suffering. So?

>>8621907
>Encouraging discrimination and prejudice
You're the one doing it right this instant.

>Many of them actively try to sabotage or block younger trans people from transitioning.
So you set out to do the same to older transitioners?

>>8621775
I don't think hugboxing means you can't help someone improve..

>>8621258
So you're forbiding us to look down on them?

Fucking thought police!

I stumbled into a support group of sorts for those who identified as company men. I looked down on them for being out to cheat people in order to keep alive their contrived pile of shit to feel respectable and business-like.

>>8621907

You're sweeping a bit too broad. Why seemingly condemn all of them equally ?

>>8621804
>tfw not the "my tuck hurts" version

>>8621546
It's anonymity. When you're not accountable to anyone, you're free to be as assholish as you wish. Most people here wouldn't say a tenth of the shit they say on the chans afk.

>>8621979

I frequent other places that offer anonymity, and yet, it doesn't get that bad, ever. Everyone has a core of human decency.
Sure many of them take up names, trips and avatars, but they can be anon if they want.

I don't think it's anonymity. I think it's the culture of the place. It just discourage kindness, plain and simple.

I'd love to be proven wrong, doe...

Hugboxing is really hurtful. I absolutely believe non-passers should be treated equally well to passers, but that doesn't put them above criticism if they ask for it. I'm not saying you shouldn't compliment them or anything, just that lying to someone's face about their appearance when they're looking for help is deceitful and cruel.

Many people have told me I pass and if it turns out they were just trying to make me feel good about myself, I will feel really upset and betrayed. When I ask my friends for opinions, I trust that they will be honest.

>>8622003

>Many people have told me I pass and if it turns out they were just trying to make me feel good about myself, I will feel really upset and betrayed

This, though.

>>8621938
Hugboxing means you only say positive things to someone even if they're not true. Hugboxes don't allow for any criticism, no matter how constructive it is. People go to hugboxes to feel good about themselves. They don't go to them for reality

>>8622003
That's a good point. On one hand you have these clearly artificial standards of beauty that are hurting everyone so dismantling them is clearly a good thing but on the other just because they're artificial doesn't mean they aren't currently real so lying to someone about them if they ask is hurtful.

>>8622033

I was more under the impression that it's supposed to just be a cozy atmosphere of kindness and positivity, which still allows, you know, honesty.

Hugbox isn't a term that's been officially defined, and I think there's no consensus anyway, so, of course, different conceptions of what it means are bound to be floating around...

>>8621920
>Do you think everyone were on the internet since the early 2000s
It doesn't have to be the early 2000s. The late 2000s or even early 2010s would've saved many mid 2010s-transitioning hons. Besides, even for those without access to Internet at home, there was always school and the public library. If you truly had no access to it, then fine, you were just unlucky. But if you did have access to it (and I'm willing to bet most 4channers were nerdy growing up, so the majority probably did have Internet), and you still failed to transition, then that's on you. All I'm saying is that these people can't blame the times for their predicament. They can't even blame Susan's. They can only blame themselves.
>repressing it because they can't deal with it
Again, that's on them for taking the coward's path.
>brought up in very religious or conservative households?
I was, too. So were many other trannies who transitioned in the 2000s.
>What of those who hated themselves too much to act?
It's a given that, if you have gender dysphoria, you'd hate yourself more than anything. Some choose to fix it. Some choose to stay put. Guess which ones regret it in the future?
>adult-onset dysphoria
Also known as a fetish taken too far.
>>8621925
So don't complain about how you're only a hon because you were born in the 90s.
>>8621932
>>8621961
You have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette. If hons are shunned, it'd show society that passers are different. That not all trans women are men in dresses with deep baritone voices and male mannerisms.

>>8622179
You're a psychopath ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>8622179

I'd rather society stopped being retarded.

...I know, not realistic.

Still, I'm not into the idea of deliberately sacrificing potentially undeserving people. That's just not right. I think we can make a good case for ourselves even if those hons exist.

Besides, I don't think they're even 10% as harmful as really outspoken crazy sjws.

>>8622196
nice ad hom anon

>>8622276
You don't care about the well-being of innocents and are willing to sacrifice them for your own well-being. That's evil.

Hugboxing is very closely related to echo chambers. They're both places where opposing opinions are not present, and everyone is essentially circle jerking one another and nodding their heads violently in agreement.
I believe they are necessary, but I can't articulate why, I can only try my best.
Echo chambers are breeding grounds for the most extreme views and ideas. In the process of creating these ideas, there occasionally pops up an invaluable insight that could have only been formed if there aren't dissenting opinions to shut it down prematurely. These ideas are often to the extreme and they are most often factually inaccurate, but they contain a narrative, or a relative moral truth, that is powerful enough to have a strong impact on not only the people in the echo chamber, but even people outside of it.

Of course, echo chambers should be limited in my opinion, because we have to ultimately make way for objective truth and facts, but echo chambers do have a purpose. They should be kept in small numbers, on the outskirts of society. In the case of hugboxes, these do help trans people and others to gain self confidence and figure themselves out. But hugboxes can't be allowed to grow too large, or else the people inside begin to delude themselves into thinking that objective reality and the outside world are irrelevant, non-existent, or can be ignored/dominated.

>>8622400
That wasn't me you replied to. The point isn't to benefit myself. It's to benefit the trans community at large. Do I hold contempt for late transitioners and non-passers? Sure I do. I don't hate them, I just don't see them the same way I see passing trans people.

>>8624939
And are arguing that they should be harmed For The Greater Good.

>>8624939
And it's also worth mentioning that it benefits the rest of society, as well. Let's not forget the bathroom debate: cis women and passing trans women feel threatened when a man in a dress walks into their private safe space. This wouldn't be an issue if you just allowed passing trans people (as cis women wouldn't notice anyway).

>>8624947
So now you're literally casting your lot with the TERFs. Nice.

Hint: if they knew you were trans they still wouldn't be okay with this.