You are fine considering the being transgender a mental illness?

>>8618729
>what about that?
Because we don't want to have male bodies.
That's what makes us trans, dummy.

>>8618729
This picture made me horny desu

>>8618768
yeah, but why this happens? we a human can't be happy with her actual body?

I don't care what you call me as long as my body hair lessens drastically, my muscle mass goes away, I'm allowed to wear pretty things, I'm allowed to use makeup without being ostracized, I'm allowed to say and act how I feel without being ostracized, I'm allowed to have a boyfriend, my penis disappears, etc, etc.

Call me a fucking antelope for all I care.

>>8618729
It's not a mental illness. It's a congenital disorder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

>>8618729
being transgender is not considered a mental illness though.

Gender Dysphoria is considered a mental illness. If you've transitioned enough for you to not have significant dysphoria anymore, you're not considered mentally ill, even though you're still transgender.

>>8621421
Sertii is correct.

Needs surgery/hormones to deal with the distress/impairment (of one's sex). Mental disorder. If there was no condition, there'd be no need for treatment.

>>8621474
See Sertii's answer. Just being trans is not an illness. Gender Dysphoria is.

>>8621482
What's being trans if one doesn't need to transition?

>>8618729
>genre is a spectrum
t. Eminem

>>8622029
Identifying as the other gender but not being dysphoric over it.

gender dysphoria can be considered a mental illness

and illnesses can be treated to a point where they are cured

you can either get your body to match your brain or your brain to match your body

HRT works and conversion therapy doesn't

>>8622029
Transness is more like a congenital intersex condition. Dysphoria is brought upon by the clash between mind and body. A non-dysphoric transsexual isn't sick (they're not "noxious to themselves or to others") and transitioning treats gender dysphoria. Consider depression: once treated a formerly depressed person is no longer depressed. Once treated a formerly dysphoric transsexual is no longer dysphoric but they're still trans.

>>8622047
What is "identifying" without needing to be it?

>>8622069
Oh I was meaning someone who doesn't need to transition in the first place. They consider themselves trans, but never transition, and never have dysphoria.

If that's what the other poster was meaning, post-transition trans people being treated and no longer having those symptoms - I misunderstood and agree!

>>8622069
So in your analogy transness = the chemical imbalance that causes depression, dysphoria = the psychological effects of transition. Treat the former, the latter stops.

>>8622079
Well dysphoria isn't "needing to be it". It's being desperately unhappy that you aren't it. Identifying is seeing yourself as that sex internally. It's the difference between wanting something, which you still do after you get it because you want to keep it, and being miserable you don't have it.

Then transition like >>8622069 said fixes the misery of not being a woman but the transness, which means you identify as female is still there.

That's why it's silly when some people say they aren't trans any more when they're post-op. They are still trans because they still identify as female, they just aren't dysphoric.

>>8622106
There's a distinction to be made: the hypothetical formerly-depressed person is now in no way different from a normal person. A trans person is still different post-treatment. They're not just a regular person. The way in which they are different does not cause them or those around them harm, though, and so is not an illness.

>>8622140
>>8622140
That's not true, withdrawing support from either would send them back to the chemical imbalance of depression/dysphoria.

That's why antidepressants and HRT are ongoing treatments, not one-off processes like treatment for a disease.

>>8622164
You can also treat depression via therapy, but I accept responsibility for your confusion since you can't treat dysphoria in that fashion. Sorry. I suppose the analogy isn't that good but you hopefully understand the point I'm making.

>>8618729
Gender dysphoria is the illness, transgenderism is simply the treatment. Not much of an effective treatment, given post-op suicide rates, but apparently, it's all we have. No drugs to treat the mental issues, allegedly. Allegedly.

>>8622177
Dysphoric people can benefit from therapy too.

>>8622192
Someone is transgender whether or not they transition.

>>8622204
Yes, but it can't cure it on its own, while certain forms of depression are purely psychological i.e. don't need chemical intervention.

>>8622212
Those are the people who have gender issues that can be treated without transition, in our analogy.

>>8622210
I get that. I didn't say it was a cure. I said it was a treatment.

>>8622223
I think that stretches the (admittedly poor) analogy beyond the breaking point.

>>8622234
I think it fits perfectly and makes the analogy better than either of us realized at the start.

Your objection seems to be that all depression is depression but dysphoria may or may not be 'real'?

>>8622277
That's a fair criticism. Perhaps it is true that psychological depression is strictly different from chemical depression in the same way that developed gender issues are different from dysphoria induced by abnormal natal development. The two look and behave in a similar fashion but have different underlying causes and so treatments.

I'll try rephrasing myself. Trans people are evidently different from normal people even after they no longer experience Gender Dysphoria. The treatment for Gender Dysphoria does not reduce or remove these differences. As these differences persist but are not unto themselves harmful to the individual or those around them I don't think it makes sense to call them an illness. Removing them is rarely seen as desirable by the patient.

Since these differences are caused by abnormal natal development and result in gender dysphoria if the individual is not treated I can understand the temptation to call them an illness. I already called them a congenital defect myself. The problem is in the implication of the word illness: that a patient would necessarily be better off if it was cured; that a rational person would want it cured. Neither is true for having a cross-sex gender identity. It is not irrational to like your identity even though it came with a condition that requires treatment. It is not irrational to want to hang on to it even though it is abnormal. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

>>8622369
>Perhaps it is true that psychological depression is strictly different from chemical depression in the same way that developed gender issues are different from dysphoria induced by abnormal natal development. The two look and behave in a similar fashion but have different underlying causes and so treatments.
Exactly!

>Trans people are evidently different from normal people even after they no longer experience Gender Dysphoria. The treatment for Gender Dysphoria does not reduce or remove these differences. As these differences persist but are not unto themselves harmful to the individual or those around them I don't think it makes sense to call them an illness.
I understand what you're saying and agree. Just like the chemical imbalance that causes depression isn't itself harmful so long the defect, to use the same word, that causes it is accounted for in order to rebalance the brain.

It's not an illness itself but its effects without help form one. Hence transition as a treatment.

>>8622420
I'm glad we agree. Have a good day (or morning or evening or night).