There WILL be a cure. Don't give in!

>>8614800

I unironically think that these trans people would be happier accepting the male persona they were born with. It's possible to have a happy life without being Chad. There's no need to put on a dress.

>>8614800
[citation needed]

>>8614800
Actual blanchardfag here.
Yet more proof there's more than one of us!

STOP FAPPING, START LIVING!
Transition has no long-term proven benefits.

>>8614832
I completely agree.

>>8614839
[citation needed that the traditional narrative isn't total bullshit]

>>8614869
You don't know the first thing about Blanchard and you aren't a Blanchardian.

Stop samefagging.

>>8614892
I'm not "samefagging".
I'm not the same person.

Also, I use the term "blanchardfag" so people know who I am because that's what they call me.

Never claimed to be a blanchardian, bitterhon.
Also, I know quite a lot about blanchard, but mostly disagree.
Back to >>>/mtfg/

>There WILL be a cure.
[citation needed]

>VERY FEW (<5%) of trans people will end up passing
[citation needed]

>There is a way out
[citation needed]

>transition isn't one of them.
[citation needed]

>Yet more proof there's more than one of us!
[citation needed]

>Transition has no long-term proven benefits.
[citation needed]

>the traditional narrative is total bullshit
[citation needed]

>>8614800
Curegirl, are you underage or live in a cointrry where you can't get hormones? I'm sure that if you be a good girl and ask nicely you could get somebody to help you :3

I don't know who you are but you sound kinda annoying.

>>8614932
>Back to >>>/mtfg/
I believe in free speech, sorry.

>>8614800
Why is fapping the supposed cause of this issue? I was never a sexual person, and I don't want to ever get intimate with another person that way with maybe a few exceptions. If anything, my trannyism is the cause of my lack of sexuality. How would I find a cure?

If you really want to not want to be a girl that bad why don't you just not be a girl and leave everyone else to have their fun without you

>>8614976

And you used this lack of libido to justify your perception of yourself not being a man, because of course men want sex all the time.

Stop letting other people's ideas of who you should be live in your head. Accept yourself.

>>8614976
There is literally no evidence for Curehon's bullshit narrative.

>>8614937
>[citation needed]
Not even going to bother citing shit until you bitterhons prove the traditional narrative isn't total BS. Low evidence and or correlation=causation bullshit doesn't count, bitterhons.

>>8614941
>curegirl
I'm not a girl. I'm also not even the OP of this post, but I'm going to reply anyway as I'm the one commenting in threads about the cure most of the time.

I'm not underage, I'm over 20 years old, and also transition doesn't work and has no long-term proven benefits so I wouldn't want to get hormones.

I live in Australia, and am in a specific situation where hormones probably wouldn't be an option even if they worked, which they don't.

HRT doesn't get rid of dysphoria, bitterhons!

Transition doesn't work.

>>8614954
Understandable, bitterhon. Go ahead and keep shitposting.

>>8614991
I'm advocating for alternatives. It's about saving lives from bitterhon's nonsense.

>>8614998
>accept yourself
If yourself is a mental disorder, then you treat it rather than accepting it. This is like telling someone with sz to just accept that they want to kill people.

>>8615026
>Low evidence and or correlation=causation bullshit doesn't count
t. refuses to post any evidence

>until you bitterhons prove the traditional narrative isn't total BS
I'm happy to defend everything I've ever claimed.

>>8615031
Bitterhon tradnarrative citations, are the evidence.

Everything I've been cited on this board has been low evidence studies that do not prove shit, or correlation=causation bullshit brain studies that don't objectively prove the cause of AGP/Trans/Dysphoria.

Also not really in the mood for arguing with bitterhons today, I'll let the OP do that if he's still around.

>>8615026

Indulging psychopathology is not treatment. Your analogy would involve giving the schizophrenic crystal meth and guns.

>>8615046
That's kind of what transition is, it's not treating the mental illness it's feeding it, bitterhon.

We are fighting for a cure for AGP/Trans/Dysphoria, or at bare minimum a real transition that works, post-transition suicide rates remain high, enforcing society with a bullshit traditional narrative is just going to end in misery as well. You can't force your will on others and expect it to go well.

/mtfg/ does this all day, trying to trap people into becoming girls when they're not, and feeding their mental illness.

Done replying to your bait.

>>8615067

I think you're confused, I was saying to accept yourself as in accept yourself as a man.

>>8615083
Only issue with this is most of our "selves" are female at this point. There's not much we can do to accept ourselves as men at this point, sadly.

Yeah I was confused, sorry!

>>8615071
why anon

>>8615121
Just report him for encouraging suicide.
Shitposters will shitpost.

>>8615083
This kind of proselytizing repressor almost always can't follow the conversation and doesn't properly read posts. They just mentally circle back to the usual stick phrases and arguments, repeating them ad nauseum instead of actually replying to anything that's said.

One told an ftm to stop wanting to be a woman twice in the same thread because they couldn't follow which poster was which. They yelled at the ftm for confusing them, both times!

>>8614998
No, I never thought of anything like that because of my sexuality. I just used that as an example since you seem so focused on porn addiction.

>>8615026
>I'm over 20 years old
>in a specific situation where hormones probably wouldn't be an option
..
>transition doesn't work and has no long-term proven benefits so I wouldn't want to get hormones.
PAH, I DON'T WANT GRAPES ANYWAY, FUCKING THINGS ARE SOUR

>>8615151
It's more transition doesn't work. If I really wanted hormones, I could self-med. But transition has no long-term proven benefits.

>>8615151
she's a sad case. i'm repressing too for the same reasons, age and not passing, but i don't resent anybody else for trying or passing or getting hrt earlier. good for them and i wish i had too.

>>8615026
>a specific situation where hormones probably wouldn't be an option even if they worked
You mean an illness that stops you taking them or your insurance doesn't cover them?

>>8615211
See: >>8615167

I know that transition doesn't work, otherwise I'd pursue other methods such as self medding.

Also, I'd rather not go homeless lol.

>>8615234
Transition not working isn't a specific situation...

Why would you be homeless?

>>8615248
I'm not going to go into it here.
But ignoring social factors, which are extremely high for me (will end in homelessness, will not go into it), I still would never transition. Transition does not treat dysphoria, it feeds a mental illness. even if you somehow pass, you won't be happy.

>>8615248
she probably can't afford import costs for australia

>>8615304
Nothing to do with cost, in all honesty I could afford self-medding. Also, I'm not a "she".

Transition simply has no long-term proven benefits, and I don't want to be a freak regardless even if it did.

I'm going to wait for a cure.

>>8614800
Give up OP. You cannot convince a true believer. There is nothing you can do until they stop feeding their desires.

>>8615121
because that's what they are encouraging others towards

I believe you're correct on one score - sometimes trans people think that transitioning will solve all the problems in their lives. I don't think the mental health community addresses that enough, and I think that's a direct result of people struggling to defend our transitions from idiots who tell us it does us no good.

For the record, the medical community has been studying us for decades and the OVERWHELMING bulk of evidence points in the direction of transitioning helping our mental health. You are in no position to say, "I'm not citing anything until you show it helps." That's been strongly demonstrated already and the burden of proof for a different treatment is entirely on YOU.

In this thread, you have told other anons that they are trans because of some sexual desire ("stop fapping"), then turned around and told a low-libido anon that they are trans because they aren't "fapping" enough! If you are arguing that both X and anti-X cause Y anon, guess what? Your position isn't falsifiable.

>HRT doesn't get rid of dysphoria, bitterhons!
Not for everyone, no. But for many it greatly reduces it and come very close. It improved mine greatly.

>in truth VERY FEW (<5%) of trans people will end up passing and attaining happiness.
I was largely happy before I got on HRT and I passed very poorly at the time. HRT and increasing passing rate has only made me happier.

Because being trans is such a stressful disorder, most trans people are not exactly what you'd call "happy." But I spent a long time not passing, and what I learned is that my happiness does not depend on what other people think. I am a whole person regardless of whether I pass or not. If I lived in a time where HRT was not available, I would survive the dysphoria and live cross-sex without it. But it has been a HUGE improvement to my life to take it, and I see zero argument against doing so.

t. FtM, so no, not going to "stop fapping." Thanks, testosterone!

>>8615387
You only want to be a man because you are a failed female and fetishize the male experience. Don't reverse trap yourself.
STOP SCHLICKING, START LIVING .

>>8615387
>the OVERWHELMING bulk of evidence points in the direction of transitioning
[citation needed with high-evidence studies that isn't low evidence bullshit studies made by self-affirming hons that are biased towards the traditional narrative and would probably lie]

>burden of proof on me.
No, bitterhon. [citation needed that isn't low-evidence bullshit]
>then turned around and told a low-libido anon that they are trans because they aren't "fapping" enough
That wasn't me, bitterhon. Sexuality can sometimes cause AGP, and can be cured through NoFap in cases of porn addiction. In other cases, AGP needs a true cure.

>HRT doesn't get rid of dysphoria, bitterhons!
Not for everyone, no

Exactly my point, and why we need a cure. I'm one of many that it doesn't help. In very rare cases, it can help, but there is no hard evidence of such with true studies that aren't low-evidence bullshit.

>in truth VERY FEW (<5%) of trans people will end up passing and attaining happiness.
I didn't make the OP, but I do agree with this statement.
>happy before you got on HRT
Which means anything you say is irrelevant to HRT increasing happiness as an anecdotal case as you were already happy.
Happiness is not something that can be measured accurately, but decrease in mental health symptoms can.

>Because being trans is such a stressful disorder, most trans people are not exactly what you'd call "happy

Case and point, transition doesn't work, you find your happiness through other non-transition methods and transition is not required, if possible for you, and if not wait for a cure.

That's nice it worked for you. But the experience is very different for everyone, and also there is next to zero studies at all on FtMs apart from a few correlation=causation BS brain studies. [citation needed]

>>8614800
Good thread here OP. Fapping is a huge part of LGBT stuff, fetishizing behaviors

I use the classic conditioning idea to understand it, and if you condition otherwise

I've had trans thoughts, but it comes down to 2 things

1 : BELIEVE YOU CAN CHANGE!!! This is why so many trannies are hopeless, depressed, warped fuck bags, because they feel they cannot change, even as the world around them is constantly changing them and making them worse.

2 : Be aware of what makes you feel what way, what encourages or discourages certain feelings, and what increases / decreases certain feelings, and make a """thought diet""" to encourage a new way of thinking. It might not be nice at first, but this is how you make mental changes of ANY kind.

>>8615568
>Sexuality can sometimes cause AGP
[citation needed]

>>8615664
How would you argue someone gaining arousal from dressing as a woman is NOT part of sexuality???

>>8615387
Dont bother will the trolls; the cure posts have started to become somewhat of a meme here. There's probably some people who believe in it and whatnot, but like the Blanchard theorists they must be ignored. You seem like a genuinely pleasant person to be around and there should be more of your types here. I hope you have a nice day.

>>8615725
>Blanchard theorists must be ignored
>they must be ignored because you obviously cannot argue against them

You cannot argue against them because you don't have a good argument.

>>8615707
AGP causes the arousal, not the other way around.

>>8615026
>Not even going to bother citing shit until you bitterhons prove the traditional narrative isn't total BS. Low evidence and or correlation=causation bullshit doesn't count, bitterhons.

>you
>>8615026
>Not even going to bother citing shit until you bitterhons prove the traditional narrative isn't total BS. Low evidence and or correlation=causation bullshit doesn't count, >you are not going to cite anything
>they must be ignored because you obviously cannot argue against them

You cannot argue against them because you don't have a good argument.

>>8615387
One important thing to keep in mind, is not only does transition not solve all problems, it ACTIVELY CREATES NEW PROBLEMS. And I think people don't really weigh if these new problems are indeed worth the risk : its why you see so many suicidal transgender people, because they blindly go in with already weak wills, and everything gets much much worse before it gets """better""""

The issue with transition "helping" is a bit dishonest : what they determine as """helpful""" is being less stressed, and on the surface, happier

but this is because gender dysphoria is being effectively blocked out : the gender dysphoria never goes away, as the person NEVER accepts that they are their born sex, and so its similar to drug addiction, in that a drug addict might get their fix every day, and seem happier, but the issue is never resolved.

I would argue OP has a point, though it obviously doesn't apply to you : but you obviously feel horrible, fearful, and perhaps hateful at the idea of "being a woman" for some reason : if this was something you grew to accept (and perhaps first faced the reasons WHY you hate it so much) then GD would be resolved, but instead you opt for hormone addiction for your fix

>>8615387
>Not for everyone, no. But for many it greatly reduces it and come very close. It improved mine greatly.

Like I said, it doesn't get rid of it, as getting rid of it would mean feeling accepting of ones body, just as a person with PTSD who smokes pot to be calm is not CURED of PTSD, they merely have the symptoms of stress removed so long as they are intoxicated

I know many of you argue this is not possible, but I've noticed 2 things

1 : you absolutely tend to deny anyone who has ever claimed to "repress" or pull the "you will be depressed in 40 years" card on them. You refuse to hear what they have to say.

2: You don't really try to look on the bright side of your sex, and accept the idea of it : ironic when you talk about acceptance, yet do not accept yourself. This is made worse when you figure you cannot change behavior, as it locks in any behavior already there....yet people wonder why they turn gay after watching trap porn.

>>8615772
>agp causes the arousal
AGP and being aroused by wearing those clothes are the same thing

how is that not sexuality?

>>8615800
>>8615664
>Sexuality can sometimes cause AGP
AGP is sexuality, it's not caused by sexuality.

>>8615840
Right, but if your sexuality leads to you getting a bf who dresses you up as a girl, and you end up liking it and becoming AGP, then how is this not caused by your sexuality?

or do you think peoples sexual tastes never shift?

>>8614800
t. bitterhon raging because she doesn't look female despite transitioning, so she puts misinformation out to deter and sabotage other people's transitions so they could suffer the same agony that she did

>>8615875
Cure anon hasn't even transitioned, I believe. They're a common sight in repgen threads.

>>8615875
Why do you always assume these must be hons, and not repressed people?

Also we always know hons just beg for headpats and whore themselves for attention, not this.

why does cureanon always type it as "bitterhon" as if it was an actual compound word

like what linguistic purpose does this even achieve that "bitter hon", a much more normal usage of words, would not

>>8615879
The guy who runs http://www.sexchangeregret.com/
transitioned, actually got his dick chopped off too

....Does he count?

Or would it be a she because surgery?

What pronoun would you use?

>>8615855
>and becoming AGP
What did she mean by this?

>>8615879
The OP is not even me. "Blanchardfag" here.

There's actually many of us cureanons, believe it or not.

I was here shortly after the "AGP-kun" original cureposter, they've left this board as far as I know.

>>8615883
This is true. We're part repressors, part fighting for a cure for AGP/Trans/Dysphoria.

>>8615890
Do you not think someone can not be AGP, and then end up AGP?

Do you really think sexuality is static, and nothing can ever change ever?

>>8615886
I type it as "bitterhon" meaning a specific type of hon that is extremely SJW and full of shit, overly pushing the traditional narrative and skittles on people like some cultist.

There's hons, which are older transitioners that don't pass, and then there's bitterhons, which are a specific type of ideaology that many extremely SJW hons have, but does not require one to be a hon.

"Bitter hon" just means a hon that is bitter.

>>8615888
Whatever pronoun they prefer. There's no reason not to be respectful, in all honesty. For him, it'd be a he.

>>8615890
Some people become AGP over time, it's induced by porn and some fetish escalation. Not everyone who is AGP has this, but nearly every AGP out there will heavily benefit from NoFap. STOP FAPPING, START LIVING!

>>8615894
I'm

>>8615900
>>8615888
>>8615855
and
>>8615800

I made that repressed homo / trans AMA,

so yes, repressed people are common

PROTIP to anyone curious, or thinking this is full of shit : it completely comes down to if you BELIEVE you can. Nobody ever did anything challenging by saying they CANNOT, and so if you say you can't you immediately castrate your odds of repressing.

You can't claim it doesn't work if you don't ever try believing.

and this is not even saying you will never have the odd urge : thoughts happen, but you can resist, and resisting them doesn't make you miserable, like people suggest, if you have an otherwise fulfilling, fun life.

Remember when repressing, still have fun.

>>8615902
making up your own neologisms that have a super special meaning that only you understand just makes you look dumb

>>8615875
Read the thread. She said she didn't transition because in Australia you get fired for it and she doesn't think she'll pass.

File: laurensouthern.jpg (33KB, 455x540px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 455x540px

>>8615902
Part of my problem is I feel the LGBT sacrifices biology, truth, peoples right to opinions, and other things at the alter of """respect""".

I'm all for respecting people space, giving them safety, and not putting hands on people but expecting me to call a hon a woman is a bit ridiculous : what about my right to call a spade a spade, and where does this stop??

What would you call pic related, man or woman?

>>8615909
It's called creating culture. If you don't like culture, I suggest you go back to you know where. >>>/asktransgender/

>>8615910
I'm not a she. And that cureposter wasn't me.

>>8615915
I would call pic related a cunt, not either.

>>8615915
I completely understand when it comes to hons. Respect to me is a personal choice simply because I honestly feel quite bad for the bitterhons that have gotten roped into this mess.

You have the right to say whatever you like as well. Expecting society to conform to you is retarded, but some people will choose to.

I would call her a woman, but if she asked me to be called a man I'd probably call her a man.

>>8614998

You need to stop and ask yourself why you're taking it upon yourself to "save" trannies on this image board. You're gay. Stop lying to yourself.

>>8615919
>It's called creating culture
Having a grandiose opinion of yourself is not helping your case much since it just makes you look severely unhinged. You're not creating culture, nobody will even remember you in a year, you'll have as long lasting an impact as skullposter.

>>8615900
>Do you not think someone can not be AGP, and then end up AGP?
How can that possibly happen?

>>8615902
>Some people become AGP over time, it's induced by porn and some fetish escalation.
Proof?

>>8615297

Well, as a thought experiment, what if we could put your brain into a perfectly healthy cisgendered female clone of yourself. Just hypothetically speaking, assuming the right technology is there. Would you be interested?

>>8615930
What if she doesn't identify as a cunt? Seems you aren't for equality at all

>>8615931
Funny you say that, because she actually is recognized as a man in Canada, despite well...being cis.

Shows the insanity of it.

>>8615387

excellent post... thank you.

>>8615946
>how
Classic conditioning : porn, or significant others, or even family members when you are a child encouraging you to be girly, and giving praise / affection at doing so

This is what happened to the guy who runs sex change regrets IIRC, his granny made him dress as a girl and praised him for it, and he grew up very AGP

I myself have suffered this, where looking at certain types of porn will create symptoms of AGP

>proof
hopefully above is enough?

Or maybe all the posts out there of people fapping to sisification caption pictures that talk about a mistress praising them for being a sissy bitch, ect

...thats pretty common sadly.

>>8615745

why can't you guys go live your own lives, dedicated to being good normal straight people. Why do you have to insist on making other people miserable? If everything you say IS true and gay and trans people are just forcing themselves into fetishes because of depression...

... than consider what it is about society that makes so many people so fucking depressed and "mentally ill" and then go out and fight against whatever that is.

don't pathologize normal healthy humans out of this misguided theory that every person needs to have a marriage and children. We don't. trust us. Please go away.

>>8615947
I would not, as it would not resolve the underlying mental illness.

However, it's an interesting thought experiment, if it was completely proven, 100% safe with zero chance of failure (next to impossble, but again thought experiment), and most of all easily reversible with no chance of getting "stuck", then I'd probably try it just to see what happens, to see what being a woman is like, and to see if said experiment could reveal more about AGP/Trans/Dysphoric brains.

>>8615951
Understandable. I'm not against social acceptance on a personal level, however I am strongly against forcing people to accept who you are. Society doesn't conform to you, that isn't how it works.

However on a personal view level, I try my best to be respectful simply because that's how I like to be.

>>8615953
Better than most bitterhons as there was actually an argument behind it, but a flawed one nonetheless. And yes, FtMs can still be bitterhons.

>>8615947
I figure this would work, but the question is, why do we radically alter the body to fix an ill mind?

Why not fix the mind itself?

I'll tell you why, because theres a myth that you cannot repress, and that trying to repress will only make life more hellish than it already is.

And as state before, you cannot possibly make a mental change without FIRST believing you can : its completely impossible, at least not without mind altering substances.

>>8615962
>making people miserable
its the opposite dude. I'm tired of SEEING gays, lesbians, and especially trannies being miserable but claiming the source of their misery is their "identity"

Lets be completely honest here : If you are gay, lesbian, or trans, would you become straight or cis if you felt you had the choice, via a pill, or whatever? Wouldn't this make life so much easier, end discrimination against you, and resolve many problems?

This COULD be the case, but you must FIRST say you can do it : it will never work if your constantly saying "repression doesn't work".

Repression is really just believing different about yourself, taking current feelings, rejecting them, and substituting new thoughts, and gradually it changes mental habit. But if you never take the first step of trying, then no fucking shit, it doesn't work because you didn't try.

> than consider what it is about society that makes so many people so fucking depressed and "mentally ill" and then go out and fight against whatever that is.

My guess would be insecurity with ones sex, parental issues, being molested as a child, having an inferiority complex with ones sex, or having no role model of a male / female, or male / female interactions. But typically people refuse to hear this answer

Could also be medications or toxins, I know one girl had a disorder with higher T in her womb, and was saying her being trans was unrelated... Sigh.

>don't pathologize normal healthy humans out of this misguided theory that every person needs to have a marriage and children

I never said that, pretty sure nobody else did either

And you aren't normal, and typically aren't healthy.

how the fuck does cure idiot write so many words about this shit everyday like my god get a hobby or something

>>8615967
The issue I have with pronouns is you need a precise definition for when someone is called a boy or girl

If you don't you open the floodgate for any asshole to identify as whatever

But this policy would make almost all trannies upset, because they care more about feeling "validated" than being correct about anything

Its actually disgusting the fetishism of "valiidation" in the trans community : I've seen a horrible mess of a FTM tranny who cuts and drinks and does drugs and is always suicidal talk about going to pride and someone saying "happy pride brother" and the girl started almost crying and smiling saying "It feels good to be validateeeeed!!!"

Validating you is only enforcing a delusion that you are a person with a penis : you are not, and will never be. You were born with a vagina, and this will never change. You can lie to yourself, but you should be aware its a lie, and not expect others to lie to you.

And really, I refuse to even care about "male or female" as much as "dick or vagina" any more. Gender identity to me is about as important as your favorite color.

reminder that all of """""""""""""""low-evidence bullshit"""""""""""""""" still provide infinitely more evidence in favor of transition than anything curehon could ever come up with her dumb skull


http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/trgh.2015.0008
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27235282
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27117528
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27117529
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26237928
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26486135
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25401972
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23943260
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25401972
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12155/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24177489
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02564.x/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21937168
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21699661
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0030043/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16758113

File: avi.jpg (138KB, 367x565px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 367x565px

>le bitterhon meme!
>I'm so mad I can't get HRT cause I'm underage little faggot so Ima troll trannies!

>>8615970

Okay, thought experiment part II

Lets say that two treatments are developed, again assuming relevant technological advancements

Treatment A: the patient's memories and identity are "copied" into a cisgendered clone of the desired gender. The patient is charged a flat fee for the procedure, which is not covered by insurance, because it's called "an abomination" by many.

Treatment B: The patient is prescribed a drug that removes gender dysphoria and reorients sexual attraction to the opposite sex. The drug must be taken consistently throughout life however, and is quite expensive, because it's considered a "luxury good" and explicitly prohibited from being included as part of any health insurance plan.

Assume that the financial cost of each is relatively equal, with the drug needing to be purchased throughout life and a supply maintained.

Which treatment would you choose?

>>8615996
She's a repressor in her late 20s.

>>8615959
>Classic conditioning : porn, or significant others, or even family members when you are a child encouraging you to be girly, and giving praise / affection at doing so
Evidence of this causing AGP?

>I myself have suffered this, where looking at certain types of porn will create symptoms of AGP
"I'm AGP and I feel my AGP in certain circumstances, therefore those circumstances must cause AGP."

Right and when a straight male is turned on by a naked chick it means naked women cause heterosexuality.

>hopefully above is enough?
Low evidence and or correlation=causation bullshit doesn't count, curehons.

>>8616000
A. Without a doubt the other option is identity death like ew I would never want to be attracted to women.

>>8615985
He does have a hobby, you are just mad that its trying to cure a mental illness that you are afflicted with

hes not trying to hurt, hes trying to help.

>>8616024
>Evidence of this causing AGP?
none of course, why do you bother?

>>8615993
Half of those are saying that stress levels and anxiety go down

Same studies would work on giving a crack head all the crack they want

doesn't mean giving a crackhead crack is the best solution.

>>8616000
>>8616000
I would honestly chose normal repression, because the meds would have side effects, and presumably as would the new body

simple is usually the best.

>>8616024
>evidence
already given

>Right and when a straight male is turned on by a naked chick it means naked women cause heterosexuality.
False equivilancy, You must ask if the element of arousal was always present, or if it manifested after a certain point

For instance, I didn't find the idea of wearing women's clothes erotic at all till such porn was seen by me.

So yes, its the source, because it did not exist prior.

Also, why do you reject the idea of classic conditioning???

> correlation=causation bullshit
This is a meme of an argument, true, not every single correlation is a cause, but ask yourself, how do you determine a cause then?

You tell me anon.

>>8616029
>identity death
what about literally throwing away the body you were born into? I would figure this would fuck up my "identity" far worse than my delusion being removed. At least my body, genetics, and past marked in scars is a very REAL part of my identity.

You would perhaps never be recognized by friends, family, or others ever again

....or are you saying you have none? =(

>>8615981

I wouldn't become straight in a million years.
I vastly prefer my platonic friendships with women to being married to one of them, and I am pretty keen on finding a boyfriend.

You're not the first angry person I've met who keeps telling me I'm depressed. I don't really know how to answer that. I feel fine. You're the one who seems desperate to prove that being gay doesn't exist and like... ending homosexuality once and for all. That would literally take the rest of your entire life and isn't worth it.

>>8616050
My family would be supportive mostly well the ones that matter by getting ffs and hip surgery I'm essentially changing my body to match my identity as female the one you call delusional. Honestly if you can say you wouldn't I don't think you need to repress cause you're clearly not trans. Plus being straight would be a nightmare for me is never want a pill that changed my attraction to men.

>>8616030
>its trying to cure a mental illness that you are afflicted with
They aren't trying to cure it. Name literally one step they have taken to cure their female gender identity besides spamming "THERE IS A CURE". There isn't one. They have done literally nothing.

What's the plan for this cure? That a "bitterhon" will finally snap and say "Now that I've read THERE IS A CURE for the three millionth time, I'll go make one!"?

There is no cure. There is only spam that there is a cure. Their hobby is roleplaying that there is a cure.

>>8615026

>I'm challenging the accepted scientific consensus with no proof and then claiming the burden of proof is on everyone who disagrees with me

Is there a name for this? I see it a lot recently. Is it the new in-vogue retard argument out of reddit or something?

>>8616063
I think you prefer not being married because you have a preconceived notion on "what is marriage" and also are maybe lazy / scared of a commitment / work.

Its very common

Ending homosexuality would never happen so long as the cause exists, but it can be reduced.

>>8616069
Still, you would throw away all your past just to become someone WITH no past?

In any case, these are hypothetical, and presumably you would experience extreme mental fuckups for having an entirely new body.

You are fantasizing about a pipe dream, and if its not obtainable, it will only make you depressed.

>>8616050
hey >>8616024 told you there wasn't any >>8616049

>>8615985
See >>8615134

>>8616075
>Name literally one step they have taken
I've told you to stop believing you are the thing you are, for one : mental artifacts are based entirely on belief, you can get people to ignore pain if you truly make them believe the pain isn't real

Yet you refuse to even HUMOR the idea you can be straight / cis. Its almost like you hold a grudge against the idea.

>What's the plan for this cure?
Depends.
LGB or T?
Top or bottom?
Details help.

>There is no cure
You won't find one if yous start with that level of thinking...

>>8616081
Challenging scientific consensus isn't a bad thing : if it is indeed correct, theres nothing to worry about right?

nobody ever minds someone challenging the idea of water freezing at 32 f, because its correct, except in the few circumstances things are different

Why is asking questions bad?

>>8616084
The problem with "proof" of anything mental is that its subjective to our own minds

How can you "prove" to me you feel like a girl?

Quite simply, you cannot

How can I "prove" repressing does not make me miserable?

Quite simply, I cannot

this is because we cannot read minds, and even the best mental health studies assume nothing is brushed over, and assume the client is truthful

So if you ask for proof of this, Give me proof that you feel like a girl? Except, well.. ..you can't You need me to take your word for it, and if I don't thats all you can do to prove it

....short of your actions, which might display consistency with how you profess to feel, but this takes time, and doesn't always work.

Still, you don't seem to accept even THAT, and even Walt Heyer, I assume you think chopped his dick off just so he could make money on books....right?

>>8616096
REDDIT SPACING REEEEEE

>>8616082
Would I not be doing the same throwing away my past by taking a pill that makes me straight throwing away all the great boyfriends I had all the road trips, picnics lazy afternoons, cuddling and watching americas top model or trashy b movies, not to mention the amazing sex. Those are the experiences that made me who I am how would that not be throwing away my identity to be breeder?

Also hypothetically it wouldn't make much sense if this female body looked nothing like you in theory it would have to come from your own DNA in order for the brain to successfully bond to the new tissue if that were even possible so it would likely be a genderbent version of yourself except 100 percent female I'd still have my freckles my brown eyes my shaggy brown hair maybe if the science is good enough my birth marks. I know one thing it's pointless to argue cause this technology will sadly never exist and orientation cannot be altered by pill like you propose and if it could you'd maybe see some closet queens taking it but considering it is medecine I'm sure there would be a day when a former gay or straight trans girl looks at there wife and wishes they were a man.

>>8616105
Taking the pill wouldn't be "throwing away" your past, but it would end up making you see it in a bit of a disturbing light : figure it like having a crush, dating them, then figuring out they are a giant maggot alien : I imagine it would feel something like that

I wouldn't argue its throwing it away, so much as changing your perspective on your past.

Also if I'm honest, these fantasies won't help your gender dysphoria, the best thing would be firmly saying to yourself that you ARE A MAN.

Gender dysphoria is actually a form of cognitive dissonance by the way, its a conflict between identifying as a girl, and seeing evidence that you ARE NOT a girl.

This can be resolved by either 1 : stop identifying as a girl, or 2, remove any and all signs that you are not a girl...except number 2 is significantly more difficult.

>>8616124
>giant maggot alien
What is wrong with this? I feel offended.

>>8616124
Dude You have some serious hang ups to compare a hot guy with a six pack perfect pecs and a huge dick a maggot besides orientation can't be changed chemically people tried it was devastating to the psyche so this is all a moot point since my ideal reality and your ideal reality will never exist.

>>8616128
not sure if this is a joke...but, ok

my point was, you would go from having a good memory, to a disgusting one.

>>8616139
You missed my point

my point was, as said above, if you took this pill, you would have a memory go from a fond, feel good one to a "WHAT THE FUCK, I DID THAT?!?!?" memory

I just tried to make an example that would hit home so homos could understand is all.

>besides orientation can't be changed chemically
I agree, but nobody said anything about oppression and applying classic conditioning to shape yourself into what you want to be.

>>8616150
Repression * my bad.

Though LGBT argues repression is oppression, even if its a choice, and argues their choices aren't choices because they cannot choose to choose their choices.

Anyone want a /curegen/ discord?

I can make one for all you faggots.

That would be interesting, assuming you don't do something stupid with it trying to give us a virus or give our IP's out.

LGBT hate repression people, and I bet LGBT would kill me for it if they could.

>>8616150
I don't get why to take the pill like why after years of sucking dick would I suddenly go you know what I want to have missionary sex for the sole purpose of procreation lol no.

>>8616158
I made it, it's here https://discord.gg/y7VNgTx
If any of you want to join.

>>8616186
>I don't get
because thats what this hypothetical pill does : it makes you go from gay to straight

And because you would be straight, theres a good chance you would find gay sex disgusting, and be disgusted at yourself for doing it

Ever been drunk, done something stupid, and woken up feeling like an asshole about what you did drunk?

It would feel like that too, I'd imagine.

>>8616124
Taking the pill WOULD be "throwing away" your past.

>>8616190
So I guess this is /curegen/ now? Who's going to make the general on 4chan? Guess this thread will do for now.

>>8616201
How? Your past isn't GONE, its still there, you just have a different opinion looking back.

>>8616209
Repression gen, cure gen, same thing IMO, but LGBT anons absolutely hate the idea of being cured as much as they hate anything else.

>>8616229
i like how you haven't even considered how traumatic it could be to possibly change someone's memories like that

like it's so fucking obvious you're just homophobic lmao

>>8616240
Its not changing your memories.

Its looking back at them with a new view

Its like if you learned you were adopted, it wouldn't change your memories, but you would look at them VERY differently.

>homophobic
this is a label. I don't fear gay people, I just realized its bad for people, and society.

>>8615944
>Having a grandiose opinion of yourself
She said in a recent thread that her preferred pronouns were 'Master', 'King' and 'God'.

>>8616246
>Its not changing your memories. Its looking back at them with a new view
same thing
>I don't fear gay people, I just realized its bad for people, and society.
same thing

>>8616254
So let me get this straight

You think looking back at a memory of someone preventing you from say, going somewhere, upon learning it was to save your life, will make you psychologically less stable?

and you think that acknowledging smoking is bad is a fear of smoking?

In this case, why even call it homophobia? That is retarded.

>>8616250
Misgendering me again? I'm not a she.

>>8616096

>Challenging scientific consensus isn't a bad thing : if it is indeed correct, theres nothing to worry about right?

Sure, if someone's actually doing that. If they're just claiming that it's wrong and that other people must produce highly rigorous proof immediately or else it doesn't exist, is not 'challenging' it - it's lying about whether or not it's accepted fact, and then ignoring anyone who says otherwise.

>Why is asking questions bad?

Making groundless assertions and claiming evidence doesn't exist if it isn't produced ad nauseam immediately (and dismissing it on some other grounds if it is) isn't asking questions.

Questions would be like 'what is the scientific status quo' 'where can I read about this' 'did you read the science yourself or just trust experts'. Those would be genuine questions. 'All of this is wrong because I say so and science's consensus is meaningless unless you produce all of the papers and results and prove they are real right now for me right here' is not.

>>8616257
>You think looking back at a memory of someone preventing you from say, going somewhere, upon learning it was to save your life, will make you psychologically less stable?
sure, even for something minor like that. In this case you're changing the memories associated with the people anon loved and had sex with, a core part of their identity and experiences. I doubt you've ever loved someone lmao, that shit changes you forever.

>and you think that acknowledging smoking is bad is a fear of smoking?
ok so you're saying homosexuality is a straight up bad thing yet somehow this is not homophobia?

ok honey

>>8616260
No, you're not a God or King.

>>8616275
[citation needed]

If I'm a she, then I'm a god.

Call me he, or a more honorary pronoun. Thanks.

>>8616266
>sure

I think you are over blowing the psychological effects : these are obviously not important enough to warrent significant concern.

>isn't asking questions.
isn't what you described how any scientific theory starts???

>>8616271
So you think anything that you think is bad also scares you huh? I guess I must scare you pretty bad.

>>8616275
Why use a pronoun if people do not fit the definition?

>>8616296

a) I think you have me confused for some other poster

b) You are not a scientist with a theory they have then proven or disproven, you're a guy on the internet spouting random retarded crap

c) Please stop

>>8616280
Curehon confirmed delusional.

>>8616340
>not a scientist with a theory

Anyone who practices the scientific method is by definition a form of scientist.

>>8616348
no more delusional than trans.

>>8616440

>a person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences.

I'm gonna say 'i'm right for no reason and you're all wrong' doesn't sound like 'studying' or 'has expert knowledge'.

I guess you're not a scientist then. You should re-evaluate your entire life of claiming random shit on 4chan.

>>8614800
As long as there is no cure there is no reason to stay miserable and not transition. If there was one i would take it, but I would feel like I would lie to myself. Look up newer research, there are some german and norwegian papers which suggest anomalies at the X13-chromosome, hence why it's considered a form of intersexuality. No reason to cure anything, there will most likely never be a 'cure'
>fapping
I get way to dypshoric and hate it, don't know about you, honey
>solve all their problems
lol who says that? some susans?
>>8614832
Seems like you have no idea what you're talking about
>>8614869
>Transition has no long-term proven benefits.
ay, almost thought this wasn't bait
Have a nice weekend, fag.

>>8616460
>Have a nice weekend, hon.
FTFY

>>8616348
I'm not delusional. I'm simply stating my preferred pronouns. Just like you are, bitterhon.

Society does not conform to me, just like it does not conform to the bullshit traditional narrative. [citation needed]

>>8616266

>SCIENCE HURR

Medical science has always been dominated by politically correct positions. Think about the medical establishment's literature on abortion, or homosexuality- or even transgenderism- before the wind started blowing the other way.

Self acceptance is the only thing that can cure dysphoria. Otherwise you're just surrendering to your self-loathing. The reason why medical transitioning is considered over talk therapy is because it's easier and cheaper, while learning to accept and even love yourself is a daunting task for some people.

Just ask any trans why they didn't "feel like a man", and they'll detail their completely toxic conception of what manhood is; I didn't like cars or fighting or I wasn't tall enough or whatever.

It's self-loathing. You need to stop the war against yourself.

>>8616630
>The reason why medical transitioning is considered over talk therapy is because it's easier and cheaper
[citation needed]

>>8616524
This is why I never understood trans : words should mean what their definitions are

Don't fit the title?

you don't earn the pronoun

>>8616661
I would argue its not cheaper, but is instead a thing purposely done to hurt people..

>>8616630
This is true : trannies, you MUST ask "what id a man" and "what is a woman" if you even want to have this conversation.

>>8615488
I was a decently cute female, I think (or maybe I'm just vain). No particular reason to consider myself "failed." I also considered myself male from earliest memory (around twoish), which is an odd age to "fetishize the male experience," don't you think?

>>8615568
>low evidence bullshit studies made by self-affirming hons
1) Pretty sure most researchers aren't trans, anon.
2) Those studies are no more "low evidence" than the rest of psychological studies on mental health. If they are worthless, so is the rest of psychology.

(I actually think virtually all of the field of psychology IS bullshit, desu. But that cuts both ways; if psychometric scales are bullshit for trans people, they are bullshit for cis people, and you cannot meaningfully demonstrate we are EITHER better or worse off. If you accept that the scores of cis people are valid, then our scores must also be valid unless you can demonstrate some serious flaw in sampling or other testing variable.)

>I'm one of many that it doesn't help.
In which case, I support you finding other ways to treat it. But don't project your problems onto other trans people.

>Which means anything you say is irrelevant to HRT increasing happiness
>transition doesn't work, you find your happiness through other non-transition methods
You missed my point. I was relatively happy pre-HRT because I could withstand the dysphoria and because I am strong in my male identity no matter what anyone else thinks. The best analogy I have is having spent many months coping with a chronic pain condition without medication because none of them worked for me.

But it is far more ideal to a normal life to not be in pain, and to have your social life not be in conflict with your identity.

>but decrease in mental health symptoms can.
Sorry, that I thought that was "low-evidence bullshit"?

>and also there is next to zero studies at all on FtMs
I like that this thread basically just proves you're totally unfamiliar with the literature.

[cont]

>>8615793
>its why you see so many suicidal transgender people
Sometimes. Sometimes not. Suicide is a complex phenomenon, and you are unquestionably incorrect in any sweeping judgement of why anyone commits suicide.

>The issue with transition "helping" is a bit dishonest : what they determine as """helpful""" is being less stressed, and on the surface, happier
>less stressed and happy isn't an improvement, anon!

>but this is because gender dysphoria is being effectively blocked out
Sex hormones don't "block out" anything.

>as the person NEVER accepts that they are their born sex
And I was never GOING to "accept" being my natal sex, if by "accept" you mean "not be dysphoric over."

>and so its similar to drug addiction
Taking a particular medication is not an "addiction" because you personally disapprove of it. There is literally nothing about HRT which is addictive; there is literally nothing about this condition which resembles an addiction. This line of argument is a joke.

>but you obviously feel horrible, fearful, and perhaps hateful at the idea of "being a woman" for some reason
Since I was two, anon?

I'm not interested in your silly fanfiction about how I """"obviously"""" feel.

>then GD would be resolved
There is zero evidence of GD being "resolved" via talk therapy.

>>8615796
>you absolutely tend to deny anyone who has ever claimed to "repress" or pull the "you will be depressed in 40 years" card on them. You refuse to hear what they have to say.
They can say what they want; I just don't care. If it worked for them, great. Transitioning is working for me.

>You don't really try to look on the bright side of your sex, and accept the idea of it
It's not a logic pro vs. con analysis, anon. If that were how that worked, I would undoubtedly stay a cis female and retain my sexual capital.

>>8616630

>Self acceptance is the only thing that can cure dysphoria

lel

Clearly you have no idea what dysphoria is. It's not self-loathing, at all. It's because I love myself and think I deserve better than this misery that I transitioned. Dysphoria is the brain freaking the fuck out because it's one sex, but its body is another.

Sure there is a lot of self-loathing in transgender people. But don't mistake correlation and causation. It's easy to hate yourself when people do their best to make you hate yourself from childhood. It's easy to hate yourself when you're bullied for being something you don't understand yet.

Transwoman aren't failed men. We can't be men at all. We have no idea how the fuck to do that. We're not neurologically built for it, plain and simple. That'd be like asking a ciswoman to accept herself as a man. It does not work. It's been tried before, and as far as I know, "Catastrophic failure" is the only outcome of trying to make a really dysphoric person accept themselves as they are.

>Just ask any trans why they didn't "feel like a man", and they'll detail their completely toxic conception of what manhood is

lolololol
Where's this information coming from ? Who did you ask, a failed tranny hooker ?

>I didn't like cars or fighting or I wasn't tall enough or whatever.

Said no transgirl ever. I've known 11 transgirls personally, and reasons like that were on nobody's mind, least of all my own. Please stop spewing bullshit. We don't feel like men because we're not neurologically men. We're not wired like men.

If you could tell me just who the fuck told you that, I'd love to know.

>It's self-loathing

Yano what's self-loathing ? Knowing you're a girl and deciding to lower your arms and live in this pathetic state, and then killing yourself because the pain is inescapable and unbearable as long as you don't transition. Self-loathing is denying yourself and accepting to fake being a man even though you know you aren't.

>>8614800
Can you stop already cureanon? I'm new to this site and already I'm sick of your shit.

Don't you realize that the "cure" would be putting the brain back into a "normal" male state? Do you think it's more likely that will happen or more likely that we can change the body with hormones and surgery?

A cure won't exist in our lifetime and I think many of us wouldn't want one. You can see from threads here how many people are passable if they transition early.

I'm only bumping your shit thread cause I can't sage on this mobile app....

>>8617968
Just want to add to the bit about psychology : theres so many variables, like lying to themselves, lying to researches, misinterpreting emotions, causes for emotions, and a difficult to pin down idea of "whats mentally healthy" that mental health in general is very hard to """prove""".

And repression working is no different especially since it comes down the the person BELIEVING they can, and not lying about it to others

>>8618010
>less stressed happy is an improvement
Then why do people go into rehab if it stresses them out?

>don't block out
It blocks out the feeling of "I'm in the wrong body" because you no longer feel you are, even if its still the same body, just drastically altered. It never resolves the dysphoria, it only fuels it.

One might struggle to accept their born body, but after hormones, they REALLY REALLY REALLY won't accept their born body : to the point they need to be on suicide watch if they come of hormones sometimes. So it really makes the lack of acceptance of ones body significantly WORSE.

>And I was never GOING to "accept" being my natal sex
this is part of the problem : accepting is subjective, it depends what you identify as, what you value, and where you place priorities. People have accepted an awful death, while others have refused to accept being rejected by a stranger : how you think and what your attitudes are determines this.

>Taking a particular medication is not an "addiction" because you personally disapprove of it

my disaproving has nothing to do with it : its addictive because 1 : it is not originally necessary for survival and 2, you will always want more, and will suffer from having your source taken away

This is addictive

>Since I was two
You probably had a shitty upbringing then, possibly abused women around you, and didn't want to become one of them.

Even if we dont remember it, seeing mother beaten as a child is pretty important to our minds.

>>8618062
>You can see from threads here how many people are passable if they transition early
Examples of such threads and people? How do you define early?

>>8615915
>LGBT sacrifices biology
Hilarious. I believe there are mostly biological causes behind trans disorders, and you guys are the ones ranting about it being caused by "trap porn."

>What would you call pic related, man or woman?
You know perfectly well she's a woman who claimed to have changed her gender in Canada as a legal stunt.

I AM Canadian, and I promise you there's no way she did what she claimed. If you've actually tried to change your legal gender in Canada, you know that at a minimum you need a signed letter from a qualified mental health professional saying you are trans. In many places, getting that letter means getting your name on a lengthy waiting list to see them, too.

Assuming she even did that (meaning, she lied to the shrink), you also have to sign a form swearing your affirmation that your new gender is the one you intend to live as for the rest of your life.

So if Lauren really legally changed her gender, she lied elaborately to a gender therapist, and then she falsified a legal document and swore an oath she consciously did not intend to keep.

And this is coming from an "alt-lite" woman who claims to be trying to protect Western civilization. Well, I'm sympathetic to that, but you know part of what's great, historically, about Western civilization? Being high-trust. Lying under oath, lying to authorities, or just lying about doing either of the previous things spits in the face of that.

The Canadian government did not make it easier for trans people to change sex so that opponents could exploit the law for clickbait.

>>8615981
> If you are gay, lesbian, or trans, would you become straight or cis if you felt you had the choice, via a pill, or whatever?
Hell yes, but it has to ACTUALLY work.

>I know one girl had a disorder with higher T in her womb, and was saying her being trans was unrelated... Sigh.
If you're saying that this was an FtM whose mother had high T prenatally, that person is retarded.

File: 2080438_p05.jpg (31KB, 242x265px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 242x265px

>>8618112

>One might struggle to accept their born body, but after hormones, they REALLY REALLY REALLY won't accept their born body

That's just false, and you're retarded (source : every single trans person I know + myself)

On the contrary, hormones are the first step in accepting ourselves and changing our bodies to suit us.

>It blocks out the feeling of "I'm in the wrong body"

Wow, check out mister Neuroscientist over there. That's some nice scientific language you got there.


>it is not originally necessary for survival

Neither are fancy clothes, computers, and a lot of shit that humans do. Grade-A retard argument.

>2, you will always want more, and will suffer from having your source taken away

Needing something =/= addiction

Yes, we suffer from it being taken away. The same way people suffer when food is taken away, when water is taken away, when social contact is taken away, when stimulation is taken away. The same way you'd suffer if your cock and balls were taken away, or if your male hormones suddenly vanished.

Get yourself a functioning mind.

What's it to you anyway ? We're not getting in your way. So kindly take your holier-than-thou attitude and piss off. Ignorant people should just say nothing.

>>8618038
Dysphoria IS not accepting your body.

You feel like shit, because you don't accept it, and figure it MUST be wrong

thinking this way is the source of all the pain.

>can't be men at all
You have dicks
>we have no idea how the fuck to do that
Do you really think most """men""" know how to "be a man" instinctively?! This is something EVERYONE struggles with to some extent, and works on daily, just you gave up and said "fuck it, ill be a girl instead" because you figure its easier

its not, and being a man is more rewarding than being a fake woman

>>8618062
Why do you think you CANNOT get yourself to have your mind in a "male" state? The fact you believe you are not is the problem

If you believe something, you feel it is true, therefore the feeling IS true, because you feel it is : you think it, therefor it IS.

>>8618196

>Dysphoria IS not accepting your body

Do you realize how arrogant it is of you to presume to teach me, a transgirl, what dysphoria really is ? Get your head out of your own ass.

>You have dicks

So ? You have a metaphorical pussy, doesn't keep you from being a dumbass man.

>"fuck it, ill be a girl instead" because you figure its easier

Right. Understand my pain, my fears, my hopes, and maybe then you'll have a chance of not sounding like you know nothing about anything.

>being a man is more rewarding than being a fake woman

You can call me fake if you wish. If I feel like woman, pass like a woman, and am accepted as a woman, I'm as real as I need to be.

Anyway, I've lost my patience with you. Not responding to you anymore. You have no empathy, no knowledge of the topic, and no desire to understand other people.

Have fun, you despicable, pathetic, pseudo-science spouting flat-liner.

>>8618112
> mental health in general is very hard to """prove""".
Then it's also hard to demonstrate which cis people are "healthy." What we DO know is that post-transition people don't score significantly different than cis people, and that data does not help your argument.

>Then why do people go into rehab if it stresses them out?
Because a physical addiction is dangerous and life-destroying, dumbass.

>because you no longer feel you are
That's not "blocking it out," it's FIXING it, anon. Sex hormones do not have mind-altering effects like hallucinogenics.

>to the point they need to be on suicide watch if they come of hormones sometimes
Yes, I'd probably be pretty suicidal if I had to go back on estrogen as my primary sex hormone, because estrogen was the worst-feeling thing I've ever had in my body. I was relieved to have it removed from my body via a hysto, and testosterone only made things better. It's not the HRT somehow making the condition "worse," though, anon: it's having a point of comparison that makes the shittier experience less bearable.

I spent a few years with terrible acne from the particular job I had at the time. My face was a mess every day, and I simply endured it. Then I saw a dermatologist who gave me a strong antibiotic that cleared it up completely for the length of time it took me to swallow every pill. Two days after taking the last pill, the acne reoccurred just as bad as before...and I was much more upset about it after having experienced clear skin.

The acne medication didn't make my acne worse, nor did it directly make me depressed. I was sad because I had a better point of comparison.

>you will always want more, and will suffer from having your source taken away
LMAO, I assure you my dose is consistent. Fail.

>possibly abused women around you, and didn't want to become one of them.
Nope. Just assumed I would grow up to be a man like my dad and not a woman like my mother.

>>8618145
>mostly biological
Give an example that applies to all trannies

And no, hermaphrodites only count if you know you have both genitalia, which most trans people don't.

>You know perfectly well she's a woman who claimed to have changed her gender in Canada as a legal stunt.
how do you know whats in her mind, and how she thinks?

This isn't any different than me calling hons men. And this is the problem : the whole concept of trangenderism stems from the idea of "well, you have no proof you are biologically the opposite sex despite every physical trait saying you are your born sex, BUT I GUESS I WILL BELIEVE YOU."

I don't believe things without some evidence, and heresay ("I'm a woman!!!") doesn't count.

>So if Lauren really legally changed her gender, she lied elaborately to a gender therapist, and then she falsified a legal document and swore an oath she consciously did not intend to keep.
Whats to say she lied?

Whats to say she didn't change her mind?

What makes you an authority on whos "trans" enough?

Why must someone be accepted as trans as soon as they say they are, but be rejected as soon as you don't view it as good enough?

What is your qualifying factors you use to detect """a real trans"""?

You must answer all of these, if you want me to take this serious...

>The Canadian government did not make it easier for trans people to change sex so that opponents could exploit the law for clickbait.
Like this?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/07/03/canadian-baby-believed-to-be-first-in-world-without-gender-designation.html

>If you're saying that this was an FtM whose mother had high T prenatally
I'm saying HER OWN WOMB had an abnormally high level of testosterone, and she was trying to be FTM. She seemed to think the higher T level had nothing to do with her feeling like a man, even though FTM's take higher T on purpose TO feel like a man.

Its like they religiously believe that transgenderism has no cause, and can never have a cause.

>>8618153
How are you sure? Have you ever been on hormones for a year, then been off for a month???

Did you feel just as ok as pre hormones, or did your mental health fall apart because your illusion of a "female" body was shattered?

>Neither are fancy clothes, computers, and a lot of shit that humans do.
And most humans who are mentally well don't have a psychological breakdown for lacking just these as long as the basics of psychosomatic care are met. Even wearing a cheap ass shirt and pants, you can be happy if you are safe, fed, and have an outlet of things to do.

>Needing something =/= addiction
Food is something that every single person dies, if they go without for an extended period of time

Hormones are not, they just get you really, really depressed.

I guess saying you are addicted to the idea of "feeling like a woman" might be more accurate, though hormones facilitate this.

>What's it to you anyway ? We're not getting in your way.
I don't like being asked to lie to someone just because they are mentally ill. If you have a dick you are a man, nothing will change that, and asking me to say otherwise is a lie.

>>8618038

>Transwoman aren't failed men

I find this "failed man" concept repeated by trans women to be very revealing of your motivations and mentality regarding gender. Please re-read my arguement, and notice that I didn't imply this at all. My position is that you are as "real" a man as any other. I'm giving you credit for being a man, even if you won't. It's okay to be a "feminine" man, in whichever way you are.

Another statement I found really revealing was when someone said they transitioned because they "hated their male persona". There's also a billion variations of "I felt like I belonged with the girls instead of the boys- I was a girl", which reveals an early anxiety about male socialization. Transitioning is a defense mechanism to relieve this anxiety.

File: ftmHighT.png (24KB, 888x303px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 888x303px

>>8618233
>Give an example that applies to all trannies
If we had an example that applied to ALL trans people, we would likely have found causation. You're a literal retard. We have striking correlations; but you probably aren't bright enough to understand why they're significant if they don't "apply to all."

>how do you know whats in her mind, and how she thinks?
Oh please, don't play this idiot game where you pretend it wasn't openly acknowledged as a stunt and a joke.

>Like this?
That's a perfect example of the government being, if anything, TOO high-trust.

>I'm saying HER OWN WOMB had an abnormally high level of testosterone
Like PCOS? It's true that trans men have higher rates of PCOS; it's ALSO true that many trans men who've tried to treat it discovered that doing so made their dysphoria WORSE and not better. Pic related is an example.

>>8618277
>I find this "failed man" concept repeated by trans women
Hey ding-a-ling, nobody trans came up with that. It's something we get from CIS people.

>>8618215
>presume to teach
I've studied it enough. Things are uncomfortable because of mental perspective : if people can trick themselves into enjoying pleasure. you can trick yourself into accepting your born body

At least, if you say this is possible

Also, the fact you are incredibly rude and vulgar while I'm polite shows its mental illness : the cognitive dissonance of the truth of what im saying, and your fantasy is intense, but you MUST accept your fantasy is not real.

Ask yourself, where do you think this """dysphoria"""" comes from, if I'm wrong?

>So ? You have a metaphorical pussy
I have a physcial penis, and lack a physical vagina, this makes me a man, as does anyone with a penis, but no vagina.

>Right. Understand my pain, my fears, my hopes
I never said I wouldn't hear them out, I'm listening.

>You can call me fake if you wish. If I feel like woman, pass like a woman, and am accepted as a woman
But there will always be inconsistencies, and problems

your logic is like consuming shit with flavoring, to make it look like chocolate, and saying its chocolate. You might be going through the motions, treating it like chocolate, and trying to make it TASTE like chocolate, but you are still eating shit, and lying to yourself.

and then when you get sick from eating shit, you will wonder where this come from? And this will never be answered unless you ACCEPT that you ate shit, and stop eating it.

>no empathy, no knowledge of the topic, and no desire to understand other people.
I do, but you make no effort to allow me your knowledge, nor make yourself understood. Its your fault

>>8618231
>Then it's also hard to demonstrate which cis people are "healthy."
this is true, you must make a subjective judgement on what is most valuable to me

I consider physical health, protection of family, and being based in reality some very important things, and transsexualism is bad for all of these things. Denying reality alone is a massive factor in mental illness.

>>8618254

Are you the same as the other one ? I can't tell. Good grief.

>Did you feel just as ok as pre hormones

Pre-hormones, I was heavily depressed, nearly emotionless and suffering constantly.

Post-hormones I lust for life, I have a full emotional range, I truly feel like myself, I finally recognize myself as myself in the mirror, and I'm generally happy.

>I don't like being asked to lie to someone

I asked no such thing.

>just because they are mentally ill

I'm perfectly lucid, thank you very much. Mental illness is a condition that warps your perception of reality. My perception of reality is just fine. My sister is schizophrenic. She has hallucinations and is paranoid. That's illness.
I'm neurologically female, and my body used to be mostly male. I suffered from the discrepancy. That's a physical disorder, if anything. Because why should my body be in the right ? My identity was in my brain, last time I checked, so it takes precedence. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>If you have a dick you are a man, nothing will change that, and asking me to say otherwise is a lie.

Blablabla, stale meme, seen a thousand times, still a bunch of shit.

If I have a female brain, I'm female, and nothing will change that either. So what would you have me do ? Give up and kill myself ? Suffer for nothing ? Or take a shot at happiness and a better life ?

If you don't think I deserve to help myself, love myself, and take for myself what I need to lead a good life, congratulations, you've shown a total lack of empathy.

>>8618277

I'm not a feminine man. I'm a woman. My brain is that of a woman. I can only repeat this so many times before I get tired of it.

>"hated their male persona"

Yep, that isn't me. Nor anyone I know, actually.

>male socialization

I've socialized with males. I wasn't anxious about it. I just didn't relate with them. They weren't my gender.

Transness doesn't come from being bitter, or anxious, or hating manhood somehow. I'm just not a man.

>>8618287

Yes, and obviously it strikes a chord with you and 2 other trans people I've heard it from, which is remarkable considering my time of exposure. I find that very conspicuous. Especially when you consider I made no such implications. Your mind went there on its own.

You see yourself as the failed man, not me.

>>8618231
>Because a physical addiction is dangerous and life-destroying
You missed my point : your logic was if something is stressful, its bad

Also, transexualism is also dangerous and life destroying, just examine how often trannies speak of anheroing

You proved my point

>That's not "blocking it out," it's FIXING it
Treating the symptom is inferior to treating the cause. You can take pain killers to ignore a broken bone, but this does not fix the broken bone

A real fix would be fixing the abnormal thoughts of thinking your born sex is wrong, rather than introducing new problems to health and life just to cover up the stress that stems from the mental problem of NOT accepting ones body

Its putting a band aid on an infection, not treating the infection.

>Yes, I'd probably be pretty suicidal if I had to go back on estrogen as my primary sex hormone, because estrogen was the worst-feeling thing I've ever had in my body
The fact you hated it was the problem : were you made to find the bright side in estrogen, your dysphoria would of left

>Dose is constant
If an emergency happened like a national crisis, you would commit suicide from the combined stress.

> Just assumed I would grow up to be a man like my dad and not a woman like my mother.
You spent far more time with dad than mother huh? You liked father better?

>>8618303

How disingenuous. We don't call ourselves failed men, that makes 0 sense. You guys are the ones who try to push the narrative that we decided to go for being a girl because being a man was too hard.

Nevermind the fact that being a transgirl is considerably harder than simply growing into being a man in the first place, and that it comes with many painful hardships that nobody would endure in the name of a motivation this retarded.

We don't do it 'cause it's easier. It's fucking not. We do it because that's who we are, and we cannot deny ourselves.

>>8618279
> we would likely have found causation
Which you haven't so you can't argue something is not the cause unless you can disprove it on a case by case basis.

> We have striking correlations
And at what point is a correlation considered causation?

>pretend it wasn't openly acknowledged as a stunt and a joke.
Whats to say yours isn't a joke?

>That's a perfect example of the government being, if anything, TOO high-trust.
I'm glad at least we agree on this : fuck canada

>Like PCOS? It's true that trans men have higher rates of PCOS; it's ALSO true that many trans men who've tried to treat it discovered that doing so made their dysphoria WORSE and not better.
This would make sense, hormonal changes are always hard and emotional : the term "second puberty" is accurate, and really, even treating PCOS would be like a second puberty, as hormones ARE shifting, and the woman will feel weaker due to lack of testosterone, robbing confidence and aggression that is normal with testosterone

This doesn't mean they were "born in the wrong body" this means having your hormones shift fucking sucks.

>>8618296
It might of been you weren't in touch with your born sex : I think a lot of trans post hormones suffer low testosterone / estrogen, and instead use the opposite hormones

I would LOVE to see a study where transexuals were instead given their born sex hormones, just to fucking see if they felt better.

>I asked no such thing.
then don't be mad if you are called your born sex pronoun

>Mental illness is a condition that warps your perception of reality
Your perception of reality is you are a woman, isn't it? You do not have a vagina, you have a penis

This is denying reality.

>If I have a female brain
so your saying if you feel you are a female, you are a female huh?

Then why say lauren southern isn't a man?

>I'm not a feminine man. I'm a woman
Women have vaginas they don't have dicks
Calling yourself a woman, acting like you are on, or even believing you are does not make you so, otherrwise ANYONE could be ANY sex they want, and if this was true, sex would lose all meaning.

>I just didn't relate with them. They weren't my gender.
someone doesn't understand what male socialization means.... It means you are socialized to act like a male

This never happened obviously

>>8618311
You missed his point : some people got defensive with "YOU ARE SAYING IM A FAILED MAN!!!!" without this being said

This to me is a projection of how they feel inside.

>>8618381
Not that anon but trans people literally have physically gender variant brains. We are not biologically male or female, we're intersex. Calling us a man in the first place is inaccurate if biological sex is all you care about.

If all you're basing this on is genitals, then that's just a dumb argument. Sex organs are far from the be all end all of sex differentiation.

>>8618429
What says if a person is or is not "male or female" brained?

What determines this?

What if someone is cis but """female brained""" while male bodied?

What if the judgement on male and female brains aren't valid?

What if a tranny gets a brain scan and it shows up as the sex they are born as?

>Sex organs are far from the be all end all of sex differentiation.
Nobody looks at your brain to determine sex, they look at your genitals. This is biology.

Saying otherwise is what leads to the "you can choose your own gender" bs in Canada, which mark my words, WILL create a fucked up child.

>>8618311

I'd really love to just take you at your word and leave it at that, but... holy shit the things I hear some of you people say.

fwiw, it's always the ones who were viciously bullied during male adolescence that make the "haha i'm just a failed man :^)" comments. And it's always so fucking weird to hear, because they pass the best- which I suppose explains the bullying during male life.

So were they just damaged, or are they so hardened against bullying that they feel unihibited to speak the truth about themselves now? Is the truth about their transition just so brutally obvious to them?

>>8618492
You make a good point : it IS typically males who are effeminate to begin with who are most likely to say that, and be trans / gay

This doesn't mean they aren't men though, they are just feminine men, who identify as women / take hormones, figuring life will be easier being a tranny than an effeminate dude.

I think its a combination of that they are feminine, encouraging such stuff, and also that they are bullied so any attempts at being masculine are discouraged, to the point they give up and try the opposite.

>>8618490
>What says if a person is or is not "male or female" brained?
>What determines this?

Whether or not their brain's structure matches the cis female and male controls.

>What if the judgement on male and female brains aren't valid?

But they are, unless you just want to argue against scientific evidence.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699258/

>What if a tranny gets a brain scan and it shows up as the sex they are born as?
>What if someone is cis but """female brained""" while male bodied?

What if? I don't know because these things haven't happened to my knowledge. It would lead to credence that the studies are wrong, but that's literally how science works. If new and contradictory evidence is discovered, then theories are re-evaluated. This isn't a mark against the theory. You're on the same level as people who say evolution is wrong because what if we discovered a human fossil from the same time period as the dinosaurs.

>Nobody looks at your brain to determine sex, they look at your genitals. This is biology.

People look at genitals because it's cheap, simple, and easy to do so. That doesn't mean they're the sole definer for sex in a biological context, only in a social one. There are tons of intersex people who never realize it until their chromosomes are examined for various and unrelated reasons, for example. That doesn't mean chromosomes don't play a part in determining biological sex.

For a somewhat simplified explanation, biological sex differentiation is based on various traits including gonads, chromosomes, neurology, anatomy, genetics, etc. Not just genitals.

>Saying otherwise is what leads to the "you can choose your own gender" bs in Canada, which mark my words, WILL create a fucked up child.

Studies have shown that transgender children are just as happy as their cis peers.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958
http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext

>>8618541
>controls
Whats to say the controls are accurate? theres millions of men and women. Getting a good representation of this is very difficult. To assume the brain doesn't match assumed theres no cis person on earth who matches it.

>anti science
you realize data can be incredibly misleading right? Like I can argue sunny weather causes shark attacks by making a correlation between sunny weather and shark attacks, and data supports this.

You must always ask, is there a better explanation?

Also, this is an under 30 person representation for male and female brains as a """base""".

The study even contradicts what someone said about T in the womb not being an influence

"T in the womb and early neonatal life plays a decisive role in sexual brain differentiation, which is believed to underlie a subject’s gender identity "

And besides this, it only takes a single cis person whos happy having a brain scan fiting the opposite sex to debunk this.

>What if? I don't know because these things haven't happened to my knowledge
and this is a study of under 100 people.... Why do you think this is a good representation sample?

>People look at genitals because it's cheap, simple, and easy to do so. That doesn't mean they're the sole definer for sex in a biological context
People look at genitals because since the dawn of time, genitals HAVE BEEN the determining factor in sex. Your narrative only works if you insist on changing definitions to suit your goal.

>For a somewhat simplified explanation, biological sex differentiation is based on various traits including genitals and chromosomes.

FTFY.

>Studies have shown that transgender children are just as happy as their cis peers.
Does this examine life after childhood? being happy in school is a lot easier than being happy as an adult.

>>8618541
Another important thing : how many trannies were pre hormones?

If few of them were, perhaps the brain change was due to the hormones and not them being """trans"""".

As far as I can tell, it doesn't show if they were or weren't on hormones.

>>8618541
Actually, how about a study on the effects of hormones and brain scans?

Take a bunch of indiviuals, male and female, and line them up on a spectrum of T to E balance, and see if theres a linier change correlating with the hormone levels

Then examine if the hormone levels are off for pre hormone trannies

.....then you could just give a tranny their born sex hormone to boost things, call it good.

>>8618601
>People look at genitals because since the dawn of time, genitals HAVE BEEN the determining factor in sex. Your narrative only works if you insist on changing definitions to suit your goal.

Multifactor sex determination has been the prevailing theory for a century. Just because cavemen didn't know about sex chromosomes or neurology doesn't make it invalid.

>>8618601
>>8618612

That was just one study, there are many, many others.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0

And sure, indivually a lot of these may have small sample sizes, but together they compose of numerous examples of neurological intersexuality in trans people using hundreds of test subjects and controls. For this to just be random correlation would be extremely unlikely.

Also, several of these studies have controlled for hormones.

>>8618625
I can't remember the specific study, but there was one that found cis people who had experienced hormone reversal for various reasons still had different neurology when compared to trans people who had been on hormones.

Yall should stop fighting and just do what you feel would help to feel comfortable with yourself.
If you think that doing a full transition will fix it, do it.
If full transition doesn't sounds like a good idea but changing some other things in your life will make you feel good, do them.
You know your body and feelings, hear them and do what you feel the need to do.

>>8618626
The question is, why should neurology be more important than PHYSICAL SEX?

>>8618670
>several studies controlled for hormones

did they test the hormone levels of these people and compare to cis?

I think trans people always have low hormones of their born sex, and I would be interested to see if theres a correlation between hormone levels and "sexual identity".

This already happens in the womb, as the study said

>hormone reversal for various reasons still had different neurology
Ever consider that believing you are the opposite sex is what makes your neurology look different?

>>8618893
What if your feelings are wrong?

>>8615387
You are my hero anon!

>>8618962
Reducing the "disphoria" (cognitive disonance) is not the same as fixing the gender identity disorder. They still have it, and now the disorder is part of their everyday life.

>>8618946
>The question is, why should neurology be more important than PHYSICAL SEX?

The sexually dimorphic physical structure of your brain is just as important as the sexually dimorphic physical structure of your genitals.

And notice I said just as important. I never claimed they were more important. But when two equally important sex characteristics are incongruent with each other, that makes you intersex, as I said.

>I think trans people always have low hormones of their born sex, and I would be interested to see if theres a correlation between hormone levels and "sexual identity".

Interesting idea, but do you have anything to back it up? Otherwise you're just asking for them to test your pet hypothesis in a study that has nothing to do with it. Prove that such a thing even exists first, and then it'd be justified to include it in other trans experiments. As of right now there is no reason for them to waste time and money on that when it isn't even the purpose of the study.

>Ever consider that believing you are the opposite sex is what makes your neurology look different?

That is literally not how the brain works. You realize your psyche isn't just some magical component of yourself independent of your body, right? It's directly a product of your brain's structure.

>>8615189
This.

>>8615915
Looks like Hillary Clinton.

>>8618949
They can't be wrong if you take a good time to think about how you feel and meditate about what you are right now and what you want to be.

This is not something simple you decide in an instant. Coming to terms with the idea of being of another gender is something of great importance.

Find the way you would like to express and feel nice about yourself. There are a lot of unique options that vary depending on your ideas and feelings.

>>8618288
>I consider physical health, protection of family, and being based in reality some very important things, and transsexualism is bad for all of these things.
My physical health is stellar, I don't know what you mean by the second thing, and if I thought anything I believed wasn't "based in reality," I'd change my mind. Nothing about being trans isn't "based in reality," it's a REAL disorder. I REALLY believe my brain is essentially masculine-leaning intersex and the science backs me up so far - if that changes, so will my opinion, but more than a decade of research is still going in that same direction. My personality traits, play interests as a child, learning disorders, scores of visuospatial ability, digit ratios, etc. are all male-patterned, most of which suggests extra prenatal androgen exposure.

All of that is as "real" as my chromosomes and vagina.

>>8618303
Nope, I'm the FtM, and look - got called a "failed female" in this very thread: >>8615488.

It doesn't "strike a chord," we're just fucking tired of seeing this dumb shit every goddamn day. You people never get new memes, and then you act like you "struck a chord" when we get angry at seeing it for the billionth time. There aren't enough minutes in my life to explain to every single person who says it that they're not clever. I also don't have endless amounts of patience, and neither does anyone else.

>>8618395
It literally was said. Read the thread or don't reply.

>>8618536
Or maybe it's black humour, anon.

>>8618304
>You missed my point : your logic was if something is stressful, its bad
That's not at all my logic. "Stress" can be good or bad depending on context and outcome. But there is zero evidence that the stress of repression is good or better or healthier than the stress of transitioning.

>Also, transexualism is also dangerous and life destroying, just examine how often trannies speak of anheroing
1) I didn't choose to be trans. Addicts choose their substance. So regardless of how I treat it, I didn't get to pick a neutral starting point.
2) Our post-op suicide rates are not statistically significantly higher than the general population. Anecdotes are not data.

>Treating the symptom is inferior to treating the cause.
Correct. But we don't HAVE a way to treat the cause. Repression is not treating the cause - it's in the name, ffs, "repression" implies the problem is still there.

>The fact you hated it was the problem
I hated it because it inherently felt bad. There was no "bright side," because the effect of the hormone wasn't the result of some rational thought process. It just directly made me unhappy. I didn't even realize how much it had affected me in that respect until it was gone.

>If an emergency happened like a national crisis, you would commit suicide from the combined stress.
You have zero reason to believe this.

This also has literally nothing to do with my T dose, LOL.

>You spent far more time with dad than mother huh? You liked father better?
No and no.

>>8618359
>Which you haven't so you can't argue something is not the cause unless you can disprove it on a case by case basis.
That's not how science works.

>And at what point is a correlation considered causation?
Generally when you've ruled out other confounding factors and the correlation is very strong and robust, you're PROBABLY looking at "cause." Of course, no one thinks that being trans is caused by ONE thing (e.g. a single gene), but several RELATED things (like signs of prenatal hormone exposure, plus genes that affect how we metabolize hormones, plus sexual differentiation of the brain - much of which is established in utero, etc.) all being moderately correlated with being trans is increasingly indicative of where we'll find some of the root causes.

>Whats to say yours isn't a joke?
Not engaging any further attempts to pretend Southern wasn't trolling. Google "bad faith."

>"second puberty"
Puberty isn't actually supposed to make you suicidal and depressed. Giving FtMs more estrogen is well-known to spike suicidality.

My second puberty on T has largely been fantastic. It's had it's awkward moments (acne, wildly squeaking voice for months on end, beard hair growing in a dorky, patchy pattern); but I'm generally pleased with it regardless.

My first puberty, on the other hand, was some Cronenberg-level body horror.

>>8618490
That's why all these studies work with averages, anon. Individual variation is "noisy," but group averages are pretty consistent.

>>8618601
>The study even contradicts what someone said about T in the womb not being an influence
I don't think anyone said that.

>and this is a study of under 100 people
Neuroimaging studies virtually all have this issue due to cost. We should indeed be cautious about the results for this reason, but there are now numerous studies mostly in agreement with each other.

This study is also citing other studies with far higher numbers of cis controls.

>>8618612
>Another important thing : how many trannies were pre hormones?
Hi anon, 1996 is calling, they want their peer review back!

Newsflash genius, neuroimaging studies of trans people have basically all been of pre-T people since around 2000.

And yes, it's mentioned in the "Methods" section that all trans subjects were pre-HRT.

>>8618946
>The question is, why should neurology be more important than PHYSICAL SEX?
Because we're people and not fucking house cats.

>I think trans people always have low hormones of their born sex
You have to get your hormones tested as a baseline before starting HRT. Mine were normal.

>Ever consider that believing you are the opposite sex is what makes your neurology look different?
Including structures set early in life? Man, you're so deep. Have another toke.

>>8618962
A+

>>8618980
Nothing actually cures it. We've been over this.

>>8619159
>pre-T
*pre-HRT, I'm tired, and fuck the short character limit here, feels like a slightly wordier Twitter

>>8619036
>mental is just as important as physical
A physical women can get pregnant, a mental women without it cannot

I would argue this is more important, as you can safely ignore mental differences and just tell them to deal wit it : the only reason its an issue today is tranny enablers.

>Interesting idea, but do you have anything to back it up?
Not necessarily, but I gotta big hunch this is accurate. Plus I figure it is EXTREMELY irresponsible that the trans medical community has NEVER tested this.

>That is literally not how the brain works. You realize your psyche isn't just some magical component of yourself independent of your body, right? It's directly a product of your brain's structure.
I was arguing that psyche and brain structure are 2 sides of the same coin actually.

>>8619054
If hilary was cute, and not a bitch maybe

>>8619068
> meditate about what you are right now and what you want to be.
But this implies trannies want to be trannies who are shunned by society?

> Coming to terms with the idea of being of another gender is something of great importance.

For the record I never "came to terms" with my gender really, I just said "know what, I have a dick n balls, make the best of it".

>Find the way you would like to express and feel nice about yourself.
Then why do they never try getting hormone boosts of their born sex?

>>8619107
> it's a REAL disorder
It is, except you insist it cannot be cured.

>All of that is as "real" as my chromosomes and vagina.
Your generalizing what a man / woman is, which is sexist. Not all women fit your stereotypes, but ALL women have vaginas and female chromosomes, its far more of a constant than playing with dolls or whatever.

I think you just want to become the caricature of a the sex you believe you are.

>was said
You said they had a hard time growing up....so...no

Also, """who you are""" is extremely subjective, and not objective. Its also dynamic, and not static.

>black humor
still good points.

>>8619121
>good or bad stress.
Its obviously bad stress, but resolving it by creating potentially much worse problems seems dubious. Its like a person with social anxiety smoking weed every day to treat it.

>1) I didn't choose to be trans
You chose to seek hormones and present as such. Literally anybody could "be trans" in that they don't feel like their born gender sometimes, and nobody really cares about this

You made choices about your current predicament.

>2) Our post-op suicide rates are not statistically significantly higher
How about exact numbers, and not just saying "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellll its not SIGNIFICANTLY higher"

"significant" is a very, very subjective term : one could argue an 80% suicide rate within 5 years after surgery could be "not significantly higher"

So raw numbers, please.

>Correct. But we don't HAVE a way to treat the cause. Repression is not treating the cause - it's in the name, ffs, "repression" implies the problem is still there.
Except its mental : quite simply if you think about it, its there, if you don't its not

If you think of it, the thought becomes so.

If you try not to think about it, it gets distanced from your mind.

If you repress enough, it goes deeper and deeper into "sub folders" of the mind, covered up my more frequent thoughts.

This is how habits are formed. And you have a habit of viewing yourself as the opposite sex.

>I hated it because it inherently felt bad. There was no "bright side"
You didn't look hard enough. Should of sought things that praised or valued you for your born sex, avoided negativity about your born sex, seek possitivity. It can be found almost anywhere really, and anything can be made to seem """good""" if you advertise it to yourself that way

And no, it doesn't matter if these are """Lies""" in your mind at first, because all of these things are highly subjective, so for the purpose of this, if you end up believing being your born sex is better, then it IS true.

>>8619159
>>The question is, why should neurology be more important than PHYSICAL SEX?
>Because we're people and not fucking house cats.
this desu. physical sex doesn't have *that* much bearing on everyday life, except for intimacy

>>8619202
>Then why do they never try getting hormone boosts of their born sex?
Because they don't feel like being of their born sex. (Also, doing that sounds kinds dangerous since you would be adding more hormones that you already have but am not sure.)

I understand how you feel, is similar to what I did.
Even though I would like to be a female, I don't want to transition. I can't get the treatment, wouldn't really feel comfortable with my body since I'm the typical male body and would cause problems. I accepted to be male.
To satisfy my feels I decided to do "female" things that I wanted to do. Like drawing my character as female and have a longer nice haircut.

The solution is pretty case specific. In an optimal case it shouldn't be biased by other people.

>>8619121
>You have zero reason to believe this.
>This also has literally nothing to do with my T dose, LOL

It has everything to do with it, if you had to get off t for a few months in a crisis, you would become an absolute mess and kill yourself.

>>8619140
>not scientific

You cannot claim to have a higher authority if you don't even know how your condition is caused. You claim everything I claim doesn't cause it, and say any evidence I find is anecdotal. You can't claim higher authority if you have absolutely nothing.

>Generally when you've ruled out other confounding factors and the correlation is very strong and robust
You actually make decent points here. Though I figure if you know the cause, you know how to fix it by reversing the effects of the cause.

I think the root cause is thinking that one would be more likely to be better off being the opposite sex being internalized and idealized.

>bad faith
You missed my point : you don't give a definition, or clear example of what is and is not """trans""", so theres no logical reasons I see to take you serious, by not southern

You must have a way to distinguish real from fake trannies.

>Puberty isn't actually supposed to make you suicidal and depressed
normally no, but if your hormones shift away from what you expect / want, this can be traumatic

The problem is, trannies expect / want the opposite sex hormones.

>average of 22 women from god knows where, and 23 men from god knows where

This is a small representation big time.

>I don't think anyone said that.
It was said somewhere in this thread, that t in the womb didn't do anything : same guy talked about PCOS i think.

>We should indeed be cautious about the results for this reason, but there are now numerous studies mostly in agreement with each other.
I'd like to see the men in general they tested, and the women.

>>8619159
> neuroimaging studies of trans people have basically all been of pre-T people since around 2000.

Citation needed.

>>8619159
>pre hrt
ALSO, I want to see a study saying one can be trans while having healthy hormones, showing the high - average of cis people, to show its mental and NOT hormonal

>We are people not cats
non argument. Your genitals are more important than your desire to wear a dress

>You have to get your hormones tested as a baseline before starting HRT. Mine were normal.
I suspect the range for """"normal"""" is pretty huge actually. I wonder what your hormones would compare to say a healthy Olympian competitor.

>Including structures set early in life?
Whos to say it cannot be changed?

>nothing cures it
If you say nothing cures it, you've already failed.

>>8619248
Wrong, it effects our biology, medical health, sex segrigation (trannies rape women in prisons) sports segregation (trannies beat women easily) and other crap. To say one is a woman when they have a dick, or had one is to just go with what somebody says with no real argument.

>>8619282
>Because they don't feel like being of their born sex
And whos to say a hormone boost and therapy couldn't fix this?? Actually in russia they tested this and got this result...

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/russian-scientists-discover-cure-to-homosexuality/

Well, for homos, but still.

>>8619318
>Actually in russia they tested this and got this result...
Is another option for people struggling with their gender if it gets further development and is safe.
Matter of opinion.

>>8614800
See you in 20 years, hon. I'm sure your family will love that.

>>8614800
c u r e h o n

>>8619202
>I gotta big hunch this is accurate
It's not.

>Plus I figure it is EXTREMELY irresponsible that the trans medical community has NEVER tested this.
It's actually well-known that trans people are more LIKELY to have hormonal imbalances. It's not universal. It's just yet another thing that correlates with the aforementioned genetics, etc.

>>8619202
>It is, except you insist it cannot be cured.
Yes. Because there is currently no cure.

>Your generalizing what a man / woman is
No, faggot. I'm talking about well-established SEX differences.

Over and over, you show you don't actually read any research on the topic.

>You said they had a hard time growing up....so...no
What the fuck are you talking about. I said that we have people pull the "failed [whatever]" on us all the time, and linked back in the thread to someone explicitly doing so.

>>8619669
>its not
>its actually well know they are likely to have hormone imbalances.

Which is it?

>Yes. Because there is currently no cure.
If the cure involves believing in it at any point, just like any mental health problem, then this behavior of saying you cant do anything is detrimental to curing it

>No, faggot. I'm talking about well-established SEX differences.
Like penis and vagina?
XX and XY?

>>8619240
>much worse problems
I don't think you can top suicide.

>Literally anybody could "be trans"
No; if they don't have the disorder, they aren't fucking trans. It has actual diagnostic criteria.

>weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellll its not SIGNIFICANTLY higher
Have you even graduated high school, anon? An educated person would know that I was talking about statistical significance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance

And the study in question is this one, which virtually every anti-trans idiot misinterprets:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

It's a longitudinal study, run between 1973 and 2003. Over the period of that ENTIRE study, they found suicide rates to be elevated. But the study data naturally split into two cohorts; post-1989, the second cohort had a greatly reduced suicide rate:

>Table 2 describes the risks for selected outcomes during follow-up among sex-reassigned persons, compared to same-age controls of the same birth sex. Sex-reassigned transsexual persons of both genders had approximately a three times higher risk of all-cause mortality than controls, also after adjustment for covariates. Table 2 separately lists the outcomes depending on when sex reassignment was performed: during the period 1973-1988 or 1989–2003. Even though the overall mortality was increased across both time periods, it did not reach statistical significance for the period 1989–2003.

[...]

>In line with the increased mortality from suicide, sex-reassigned individuals were also at a higher risk for suicide attempts, though this was not statistically significant for the time period 1989–2003.

>Except its mental
It's neurological.

>Should of sought things that praised or valued you for your born sex
This was the tactic my parents tried to "fix" me - shower me in "the good side" of being female. It literally made me an intense misogynist for years.

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>>8614800
>repressors don't transition while waiting for "the cure"

literally retarded all of y'all

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>>8614832
>There's no need to put on a dress.
And that goes extra for women.

Any woman who does not wear a snappy suit or wears a dress should be gassed so her dress-wearing genes won't get passed down tbqh.

>>8619285
>if you had to get off t for a few months in a crisis
Nah. Even if my body still produced estrogen, I think I'd go through a rough period of being suicidal but pull through (I've been through worse, after all). Especially if it was short-term.

But it doesn't. So I wouldn't even have that issue.

>You cannot claim to have a higher authority if you don't even know how your condition is caused.
No, it was the idea of proving or disproving cause on a "case by case basis" that was particularly silly.

>Though I figure if you know the cause, you know how to fix it by reversing the effects of the cause.
In THEORY, though we don't know how easy that would be to do.

>I think the root cause is thinking that one would be more likely to be better off being the opposite sex being internalized and idealized.
Again, I supposedly had done that by two. k.

>You missed my point
No, because you don't fucking HAVE a point when you argue in bad faith.

>The problem is, trannies expect / want the opposite sex hormones.
MANY trans people who've gone through this did not know they were trans yet and had no idea what was wrong.

>This is a small representation big time.
THIS IS COMMON IN NEUROIMAGING STUDIES.

>I'd like to see the men in general they tested, and the women.
I'd like to see you graduate. Stay in school, anon! You'll know how to argue like a grown-up someday.

>Citation needed.
ACTUALLY READ THE FUCKING LITERATURE, you dumb sack of shit. Every single study WILL SAY in their methods section if the participants are pre-HRT or not. I've yet to see one from 2000 onward that wasn't pre-HRT.

You're exhaustingly stupid and ill-informed.

>>8619685
>can't top suicide
This is a choice. You cannot blame this on others, you chose to commit suicide, nobody forces you.

>No; if they don't have the disorder
But people with the disorder are people who say they aren't their born sex.

So If I say I'm not my born sex, and make up some BS, I'm trans

...no to mention all the self med BS, not requiring the medical checks you guys rant about, just order hormones and a wig online, and POOF, TRANS!!!

>>8619685
> α, is the probability of the study rejecting the null hypothesis, given that it were true

I'm not sure how you can judge the likelyhood of the study rejecting a hypothosis.

also, they make no distinguishment of where "significant" and "insignificant" starts, so I cannot even get the foggiest idea what the suicide rate of SRS participants are. It could be 20 fold for all I know, committing suicide in 5 years, but whats to say this wouldn't be statistically significant???

How does the math work out to say something is, or is not statistically significant, run this down for me.

>http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

You realize the whole escuse for this anyway is
>WE WUZ BULLIED!!!
to explain suicide?

This is ridiculous, people in good mental health don't commit suicide from bullying or even family rejection.

Also...

>Sex-reassigned transsexual persons of both genders had approximately a three times higher risk of all-cause mortality than controls, also after adjustment for covariates
>Even though the overall mortality was increased across both time periods, it did not reach statistical significance for the period 1989–2003.

Apparently 3fold suicide rate of general pop is not statistically significant?

Also, how can you claim SRS is effective if it makes the suicide rates HIGHER??

>>8619679
>Which is it?
You suggested it was UNIVERSAL. You are incorrect.

>If the cure involves believing in it at any point
This isn't the Middle Ages, and I'm not praying for the Elder Gods to save me. It objectively works, or it doesn't.

>Like penis and vagina?
>XX and XY?
Those are SOME sex differences. The other things I mentioned are OTHER sex differences.

>>8619725
WHY. WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID.

I'm fucking spoon-feeding your drooling ass. Look. Look at this shit:

>Apparently 3fold suicide rate of general pop is not statistically significant?

WHAT DOES THE SECOND SENTENCE SAY YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER.

>Also, how can you claim SRS is effective if it makes the suicide rates HIGHER??

There are no pre-op studies to compare it to, so even the second cohort hadn't seen a huge drop in suicide rates, IT STILL WOULDN'T BE SAYING THAT.

And that's it. I'm out. This isn't Reddit, it's not r/explainlikeimfive

I know you're going to say that I got angry and left because you were "making good points" (you're not, and you haven't) or because I "know" you're right (you aren't), but I'm too fucking done arguing with double-digit IQs to care that your dumb ass is going to think you "won."

If I were your MOTHER, I'd smother your mongoloid ass with a fucking pillow to spare our collective gene pool.

God forbid you breed.

>>8619685
>It's neurological.
Please explain the difference, and how they ARE NOT 2 sides of the same coin.

>This was the tactic my parents tried to "fix" me - shower me in "the good side" of being female. It literally made me an intense misogynist for years.
I have a feeling you got horrifically raped : every FTM I've met got horrifically raped as a child

not joking,

>>8619697
This makes no sense : dresses are good for women, and help attract a mate

Trannies do not need mates, as they CANNOT """mate""" this way.

>>8619713
>Nah. Even if my body still produced estrogen
did you get your ovaries removed or something???

>No, it was the idea of proving or disproving cause on a "case by case basis" that was particularly silly.
not really, mental health is very messy, and not streamlined.

It would be a good idea to face each case as its own, rather than assuming all similar sounding cases are the same.

>In THEORY, though we don't know how easy that would be to do.
Fair point : i figure you examine the mental, or physical effects, and simply reverse them. Easier said than done, and some things aren't reversable, but you can try

>No, because you don't fucking HAVE a point
You don't have a point of why, if I can't respect lauren, I should respect any of you.

>MANY trans people who've gone through this did not know they were trans
They never put the title """trans""" to it, but idealizing the opposite ex behavior is still present.

>THIS IS COMMON IN NEUROIMAGING STUDIES

Which is why I take them with more grains of salt than others

>participants are pre-HRT
Fair enough, though studies prove they have hormone imbalances often to begin with.

>>8619741
Hey.

[citation needed]

>>8619726
>universal
I suggested that grey matter formations and readings are a partial REFLECTION of mentality, and that grey matter changes reflect mentality, and mentality changes reflect grey matter.

> I'm not praying
never mentioned prayer. Strawman fallacy. Non argument

>The other things I mentioned are OTHER sex differences.
So how do you determine if someone is a boy or girl?

>>8619741
>Table 2 separately lists the outcomes depending on when sex reassignment was performed: during the period 1973-1988 or 1989–2003. Even though the overall mortality was increased across both time periods, it did not reach statistical significance for the period 1989–2003.

Still waiting you to explain the mathamatics behind """statistical significance""", and how you get a hard number on """the probability of the study rejecting the null hypothesis, given that it were true"""

Unless you have hard numbers for all this, and set mathmatics, I'm convinced this is just a way to fudge data and say "fuck, theres a problem in statistic, lets just call it statistically insignificant"

Seriously, who judges the """likelyhood""" of the study being rejected???

>There are no pre-op studies to compare it to, so even the second cohort hadn't seen a huge drop in suicide rates, IT STILL WOULDN'T BE SAYING THAT.
This should be a warning sign. I figure pre op is lower, far lower, but again, no data.

Also even if the suicide rates dropped, why are they 3 times the standard rate?

>I know you're going to say that I got angry
then why did you use all caps and use a bunch of swearing? Seems like something a mentally ill person would do....

>If I were your MOTHER, I'd smother you
Smother me tranny mommy senpai onichan uguu~!

>>8619202
>I would argue this is more important, as you can safely ignore mental differences and just tell them to deal wit it : the only reason its an issue today is tranny enablers.

Do you also tell people with depression to "just deal with it?". Mental problems are no less severe than physical ones.

>>8619318
>it effects our biology, medical health,
They do but that doesn't mean it "has much bearing on everyday life" as that anon said.

> sex segrigation (trannies rape women in prisons)
Source?

>sports segregation (trannies beat women easily)
This should be based on hormones, not genitals. Hormones are the thing that change the rest of your body.

>>8616050
>Half of those are saying that stress levels and anxiety go down

>Same studies would work on giving a crack head all the crack they want

>doesn't mean giving a crackhead crack is the best solution.

It would mean that if no other studies had found similarly good results through other methods. If there's only one method that's been proven to work, then it's the best method, regardless of it's effectiveness.

>>8619318
Men rape men in prisons, what are you doing about that?

>>8620089
>Do you also tell people with depression to "just deal with it?"

I tell depressed people to avoid what makes them depressed yes, just like I tell trannies to avoid things which make them feel like they aren't their born sex. They need to accept it .

>>8620128
Right right, but if you have everyone screaming that telling him to detox and push past it wont work, because they will "always go back", then you fuck up any chances of rehab.

sure, relapses happen. Still

>>8620141
To be honest? Make sex illegal to do in prison period. Chemically castrate those who have trouble with it.

>>8620141
Also, if an inmate is a slut and tries to seduce people, then drug them to make them lethargic.

Or better yet, tolerate prisoners beating people who are sexually provocative on purpose

>>8620598
>Right right, but if you have everyone screaming that telling him to detox and push past it wont work, because they will "always go back", then you fuck up any chances of rehab.

And that would be the sensible thing to do if we lived in a world where drug rehab had no scientific evidence to support its efficacy, but further drug use had plenty of it. Just as you're being silly for trying to claim repression must be the best option for trans people despite no evidence to support that claim and mountains of evidence that transition is an effective treatment.

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>>8614932
nigga you say the same 4 lines in every thread then you get called out for samefagging and you always say "im not the same person"

youre not fooling anyone get a life you pathetic loser

GET A LIFE

>>8620683
Proof?
>>8620683
Also proof?

>>8622370
You quoted the same post twice you stupid woman.

You should spend more time in the kitchen supporting your man and less in his domain, online.

>>8622389
I'm not a woman, and oh by the way that person you're flaming isn't even me.

Piss off, bitterhon.

>>8622408
Do you have a vagina? What is a woman, exactly?

Wait, so if I stop masturbating I'll be able to get rid of whatever mental disorder I have?

I seriously legimately can't stop feeling stressed out, obsessing and fantasizing about being able to live as a woman during literally every single waking moment, buying cute clothes and cute things online, crying myself to sleep because I know things won't get better and that this has ruined my life for 99% of my entire life and childhood, feeling awkward and out of place with the male friends I surrounded myself with in order to not feel lonely and like a failure, literally looking different in the mirror almost every time I look, feeling like body/facial hair are like sunburns, having to sigh deeply and lose all motivation to do anything because of neck tension every time I look at my huge shoulders, feet, and head, shitpost here for validation from strangers to tell me things that I already know deep down, etc.

All I gotta do to make all of that go away and live a normal life is stop masturbating?

>>8622408
>I'm not a woman
[citation needed]

>>8622635
STOP REPRESSING, START LIVING.

Don't fall for curehon lies.

>>8622635
You need to stop focusing on it, thats the problem : which dog do you feed?

You are giving the dog that thinks its a girl an all you can eat buffet.

Stop obsessing, stop fantasizing, and stop buying cute shit. Resist the urge.

>>8622696
But anon, the "lies" have helped me get my life together

how is it a lie that repressing works, if I repress, and feel happier?

Literally how does this work?

>>8622705
The lie is that nofap makes it go away. You don't have to transition, just stop denying who you are and find ways to live with it, whether they be transition or not.

AGP here, I quit hormones 6 months ago. I still have some dysphoria but it's getting better. I started doing sports and losing weight, feels good!

>>8622777
Why did you quit and why did it start feeling better?

How long were you on them for and how old are you?

>>8622737
Why should I stop denying "who I am" in the moment?

What if I'm a useless depressed fuckbag? Should I not try and change this?

Whats bad about denying "who i am" if I become someone different?

>>8622853
Because it will help you.

Yes and not denying who you are can be part of fixing it.

You won't unless who are act like now is just an act.

>>8622886
Sounds good.

>>8614800
Their desire disappears AFTER fapping... So why would you tell them to stop fapping?

They should be fapping at least twice a day.

>>8622777
STOP FAPPING, START LIVING!
The start living point is the most important.

>>8623028
The point is you stop fapping, after 90 days+ your sexuality resets, and you start living as a guy. The start living part is just as important.

>>8615910
Lmao no you don't, it's illegal to discriminate based on race, religion, sex, sexuality and gender identity in Australia and Fair Work fucks up any employer who does

>>8623221
i think having the release reduces stress

>>8624566
>thinking that's actually applied

>>8624611
It does, and in the short term you will have to bear it. However, the choice is between being trapping youtself, and dealing with a bit of discomfort for a while and increased dysphoria.

>>8624616
nah
t. gigantic faggot gainfully employed in a non-retail/service related industry

>>8628445
Not an argument.

>>8628462
>implying you have an argument
Look, I've been working for more than ten years in both construction and print and I've never copped shit for being a femboy faggot so either you're not even Australian or you're some neet with no actual employment history. Believe whatever you want if that's what helps you repress or whatever your issue is.

>>8629105
>it's true because I say it is
Yeah and my dad works at Nintendo.

>>8622696
Nice try, bitterhon.

Transition has no long-term proven benefits.

[citation needed on the causation of AGP/Trans/Dysphoria]

Repression IS living. Tranaition is literally almost the same as suicide, it's an experimental palliative care method for people that are about to die due to their mental illness. Nothing more.

>>8622705
Bitterhons don't understand it because they've never tried living, and aren't willing to admit they're wrong.

>>8622737
NoFap curing a lot of AGP cases isn't a lie.
>just stop denying who you are and grab a shotgun and murder people
Effectively what you're arguing for, accept your mental illness.
The solution is NoFap for 2 years, and if you're the rare one that it can't cure it outright, then fight for a cure, either through various mental methods like this guy >>8620598 is pushing for.

There's many of us, with many viewpoints, and unfortunately for you, bitterhon we're living healthier, happier lives. Cureanon for life.

>>8622635
Your case seems quite severe already ' you'd probably need more than just NoFap, you'd also need to direct your brain away from all that before you can rewire your sexuality through NoFap. Start living may be your first thing to do, before stopping fapping. Find something apart from your mental illness to live for.

>>8622687
I'm a male on my birth certificate, and live my life as male. For all intents and purposes, this makes me a man. Piss off, bitterhon.

>>8629105
Blanchardfag here, since bitterhons are ao full of fuckin shit I'd like to clear up the rumors in regard to my status.

I have never once claimed the reason I would not transition is getting fired. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

Don't trust bitterhons!
The only things I have said is I live in Australia.
Nothing more than that, anything else is bitterhon imposters.

>>8629183
>NoFap curing a lot of AGP cases isn't a lie.
[citation needed]

>>8614800
who the fuck revived this thread

>>8629185
Just look at the posters on this damn board. There's no citation, yet. The traditional narrative outright kicks out anyone that tries to argue alternatives. But you're free to head right on over to yourbrainonporn, or many other NoFap websites that have many many success stories even in regards to AGP.

>>8629190
I did. >>8629183

Transition has no long-term benefits.
Don't like it, bitterhon? Sorry, but the truth will always reach you here. If you don't like it, please go back to somewhere else.

>>8629195
>isn't a lie.
>There's no citation, yet.

>>8629190
Curehon herself, the OP.

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>>8629114
Does he? Did they hire him for his lack of original ideas? The Apple didn't fall far from tree there

Have some grapes, faggot
>>8629183
Okay, haven't really been following the thread, just going in to bat for Australia's equality laws

>>8629203
The traditional narrative is totally bullshit. We know almost nothing about AGP/Trans/Dysphoric people. Low quality evidence is basically the same as no evidence, bitterhon.

>>8629213
I didn't even post this shit. This was my first post in this thread: >>8614869

Also I'm not a hon. If you want the right pronouns, try calling me King, God or Master.
Thanks, bitterhons.

>>8629217
>Australia's equality laws
Which don't even work.

>>8629217
Understandable. I'm fully aware about fairwork and the related laws, they're extremely strong laws. We live in a nanny state at this point to be honest.

>>8629225
They do actually work based on what I've seen in my time here. Nice try, bitterhon. I actually live here. The reasons I don't transition are transition doesn't work, and has no long-term proven benefits. I'm fighting for a cure.

>>8629231
>They do actually work
[citation needed] honlord.

>>8629220
>I didn't even post this shit. This was my first post in this thread: >>8614869
[citation needed]

>>8629220
>The traditional narrative is totally bullshit.
[citation needed]

>>8629233
Literally google australia fairwork commission. There's shitloads of news about them destroying some shitty situation from time to time constantly.

[citations for government laws and enforcement lol]

>>8629238
[citation not needed because there is no high quality evidence or non correlation-causation bullshit studies] Cite me a direct causation of AGP/Trans/Dysphoria, or a high evidence study of transition actually decreasing suicide rates, and I'd believe you. Piss off, bitterhon.

>>8629237
Now that's just bait. Going to feed the troll this once. I'm not a samefag, and you can't even prove that I'm not anyway without a tripcode. I'm not going to use a trip for two reasons, one that it could be an imitator anyway, two that I believe 4chan is about anonymity and free speech, not tripfagging and usernames. Piss off.

>>8629240
>they work every single time it makes the news!

Looks like the repressor IQ hypothesis was right.

>>8629246
>[citation not needed
t. ever curehon post

>>8629252
I'm not about to forcefeed you citations, bitterhon. Since you love this meme so much, go and find one that proves me wrong. You can't, because I'm right.

>>8629247
IQ in reality is just a total bullshit measure based on a test that claims to be intelligence.

>>8629246
>Cite me a direct causation of AGP/Trans/Dysphoria, or a high evidence study of transition actually decreasing suicide rates,
[citation not needed because there is no any quality evidence or any studies for the Curehon narrative]

>>8629281
I don't even have a narrative. I just argue that the traditional narrative is bullshit (which it is), and to seek alternatives that have less attempted backing behind them (because with the amount of attempts to prove the tradnarrative, it's blatantly wrong at this point).

I personally like NoFap, but there are many options if that doesn't work for you.

>>8629290
>which it is
[citation needed]

>>8614800
I'm not even sure if this guy is stupid or disabled.

He talks about some cure, yet all he does is post on this board of 4chan.

He is a desperate AGP who could never pass and now he spreads his sadness and misery.

People may or may not benefit transition.
He is so bitter because of his unpassableness that he wants to stop everyone from transitioning.

He is actually worse than what he calls "bitterhons".

Let's be honest, I don't think I can make a point that'll change anything, but here goes.

If you guys were actually interested in the truth, you wouldn't be here spouting insults and treating trannies like freaks.

All you want is to oppose your propaganda to our propaganda, and maybe hurt us in the process.

You can't claim to care about evidence when your attitude is malicious, self-righteous, and 100% invested in your own version of the story, from which you will not detract.

If you were interested in the truth, you'd be out there contributing to research, educating yourself, and trying to add to the pool of knowledge in some way.

But no. You're on /lgbt/ harassing trannies. You're no going to make a change in what we think is best for ourselves. You're wasting your time.

You can say I'm not interested in the truth either. That's true. I'm interested in my own well-being, and to a lesser extent, other people's. Then again, I'm not the one going on 4chan to be an awful human being.

No matter how wrong/misguided they think we are, people who care about the truth and what's best for everyone at least has a core of respect and decency born from the awareness that people have to make choices to help themselves, and that they don't deserve hate for being mistaken, if they even are mistaken.

I imagine nobody cares, but I wanted to at least try to say it.

>>8629320
She said she was blocked from transitioning by Australian gatekeeping and personal circumstances like money or the risk of losing her job.

>>8629320
Passing has nothing to do with it, bitterhon.
While it's extremely likely I wouldn't pass, I wouldn't trap myself even if I could.

Also, you underestimate the reach of 4chan. Shitpost all you want, but I'm making an impact.

I'm not a "desperate" AGP. I'm simply someonr who has purpose in their life, and is happy because of that. I'm not sad or miserable. I'm quite happy, especially on NoFap, bitterhon.

I'm not "bitter" about anything. I simply advocate for alternatives, nothing more.

>>8629331
I do educate my.self on a regular basis. My personal situation doesn't allow me to practice the sciences beyond what I do on 4chan. I'm not malicious or self-righteous in any way. Also >namefagging
Opinion discarded.

Me simply being here adds to the pool of knowledge. If you want to trap youtself, go on ahead. I'm simply informing people of the facts. If they listen or not, that's not up to me.

I care, that's why I'm here. I don't hate those who are mistaken, I simply think they are a lost cause due to this terrible narrative, and need to use my time elsewhere.

>>8629332
I wasn't blocked by anthing, and I'm not she. I've never attempted to transition nor would I want to. Outright bullshit. My personal circumstances have nothing to do with what I post here.

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>>8614800
>be OP
>make the thread as bait
>sit back and watch the drama
>tfw cureanon takes all the blame

>>8629347

>Also >namefagging
>Opinion discarded.

Right.

> I'm simply informing people of the facts

And calling them bitterhons. You're not "simply" informing people, you're also insulting them.

>Me simply being here adds to the pool of knowledge

I have my doubts...

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>>8629337
>While it's extremely likely I wouldn't pass, I wouldn't trap myself even if I could.

>>8629337
>bitterhon
I'm not trans.
>Shitpost all you want, but I'm making an impact.
You sure are, Nancy.
>I'm quite happy
Are you really that oblivious to how obvious this lie is?

>>8629337
>I simply LYING ABOUT alternatives, nothing more.
FTFY >>8629318

>>8629320
>I'm not even sure if this guy is stupid or disabled.
Repressors have low IQ.

>>8629359
Nice meme, bitterhon.

>>8629371
Trans or not you sure act like a bitterhon. Talks like a bitterhon walks like a bitterhon is a bitterhon.

>lie
Nope, lol. Smiling right now!

>>8629443
I'm not lying about anything. Piss off. Not going to respond to bitterhons anymore.

>>8629479
[citation needed] also while IQ is bullshit, my IQ is 131 according to official tests in real life. Piss off.

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>>8614800
NOTTO DISU SHITTO AGEN

>>8629593
Nice shitpost!

>>8614800
>There WILL be a cure. Don't give in!
Too late I broke down and told my family I was transgender they hate me now.

Now I need to find what I do from now on.

>>8629610
Don't trap yourself. Day it was a joke, back out or something. Leave your family and still don't trap yourself as they seem like a bunch of cunts anyway.

Transition has no long-term proven benefits.

STOP FAPPING, START LIVING!

>>8629612
I will stop fapping when skittles kill my tiny clitty.

>>8629690
>trapping yourself
Don't do it!

Transition is an experimental palliative care method that should only be done in cases of transition or suicide and has no long-term proven benefits.

>>8629714
But I wanna do it badly, so I will.