explain

I've never been able to accurately put it into words. It's a feeling, like when you meet a stranger you know is a piece of shit but you can't explain why.

how do you feel like a certain gender though?
I understand it is hard to explain, but I really want to understand better
please people, continue responding

>>8476459
It's quite honestly a feeling that is nearly impossible to describe. It's a deep, inner feeling that something is wrong. It's a sense of pain that is always beneath the skin, as such - and is similar to depression, but yet very different. It's a very abstract feeling, to put it short.

I wish I could explain it better, but it's almost impossible to describe. It's just an inner darkness that is relieved by being the opposite gender.

I'm a non-transitioner myself, but this is my explanation of how I feel. Other trans* people may feel differently.

>>8476480

>>8476590 Here.

It's not exactly "feeling" like a certain gender, it's more I feel as if I am not this, this is not who I am, this is wrong, when I am my birth gender, and when expressing my target gender, it feels right, the pain lifts, things begin to be alive again.

>>8476459
it is like being a woman stuck in a man's body

I don't feel like the opposite gender, I think of myself as a girl of course but I don't "feel" like any gender, I just feel like myself

What I feel that made me transition is gender dysphoria. The constant feeling that my gender is incorrect somehow. Before transition, when I saw myself in the mirror it just felt bizarre, when people treated me like a guy it was jarring and strange and made me feel horrible. I don't know if I'm 'really a girl' or anything like that, I just know that I couldn't stand living as a guy and living as a girl lets me just get on with my life. The key thing understand is that this feeling is irrational, illogical, it's instinctive and primal and I've felt it since I was a small child (age four)

>>8476672
>I just feel like myself
>feeling that my gender is incorrect

so yourself is someone with the incorrect gender?

>>8476693
Myself is someone with gender dysphoria. There's a distinction. I don't think any gender is "right" or "wrong" logically because I don't believe in anything like destiny or a higher power or anything like that. I couldn't have been born anything other than what I was

>>8476700
so in what way is your gender "incorrect"?

>>8476746
The part of my brain that is responsible for gender identity is defective / miswired. It tells me I'm female while reality tells me I'm male. This creates a disconnect and feeling of wrongness, This feeling is corrected by transition. Not sure how else to spell it out for you

>>8476755
[citation needed] on the specific part of the brain that tells you that you are female, and not just "markers" pointing to it being the outcome of you being trans.

>>8476755
>defective

i think that answered my question

so, if I am understanding this correct,
for some of you, it is not that you feel like the other gender,
but just not the one you were born into.
How would you view gender then?
What I mean by this is, how can you describe that your gender is wrong, because I do not understand how to think of gender at all past just chromosomes? After that I just see things such as fashion and stereotypes.
I am a male and non trans, I can not describe how it feels to be a guy because I feel nothing of the sorts.
Can anyone describe what feels off with them?
I really want to understand this since I doubt that I will experience anything myself allowing me to do so.

>>8476791
You're asking the wrong question. You're looking at it as if transgender people think of gender different from cisgender people.

The reason you transition is because your brain forces you to compulsively need to express yourself and be seen as the opposite sex. There is no logic to it, it's not about having a different 'perspective' on gendre, it's about the neruology of your brain.

File: 731px-Haeckel_Hepaticae.jpg (232KB, 731x1024px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 731x1024px

>>8476791
>I do not understand how to think of gender at all past just chromosomes

Well, remember that there are also hormones that act on body parts while they are maturing.
So the brain is either feminized or masculinized as it is growing depending on the ratio of sex hormones in the bloodstream at different key times in the developmental process.

Hormones at other times affect how organs grow so it is entirely possible that the brain is feminized at one point and then later on the body is masculinized.

There are also inherited genes that may have mutations that might make a person homosexual.

So there are a lot of opportunities for variation, which is why it is simplistic to insist that there are only two types of people: male and female.

The situation is obviously more nuanced than that.

I'm sorry that I am having trouble asking the "right" questions.
I do not think that trans and cis people view gender differently,
its more like I think I am seperate from literally everyone else in the world because I think nothing of it.
Would it be better to ask these questions?
How is expressing yourself correctly differ from personal preferences of actions, fashion, and following stereotypes?
Next, can someone describe what exactly gives them relief about the transition, what about it gives you internal peace and makes you feel complete? Hopefully these questions make more sense and allow me to gain a better perspective.

>>8476820
>personal preferences of actions, fashion, and following stereotypes?
All of those things are a means to an end, passing as the sex you feel you must be. It's not about preferences or tastes at all

>>8476459
how can you even explain how you feel your own gender?
its just self-image and association with everything social that matches your self image
you dont even think about it consciously

>>8476820
>Next, can someone describe what exactly gives them relief about the transition, what about it gives you internal peace and makes you feel complete?
When you transition and see yourself in the mirror, you don't instantly feel the 'wrongness'. When people call you the pronouns you want, you don't feel the 'wrongness'. It doesn't make you happy or peaceful, it puts you at the same level as everyone else

So what I am understanding now is that some people do not feel like they fit into the mold of the gender they were born with
and because of this they transition to the other because it feels more natural.
(I am sure that many of you may read this and think I am an idiot because it's so obvious to others,
but I am starting from scratch and trying not to assume so I can create my own complete opinion)
IF this is in fact correct, can anyone explain how or why the transition feels natural, that is,
if this question even makes sense and is able to be answered.
I am sorry to keep pushing the same types of questions,
but I am looking to see of any answer exists that can be easily digested and explain what trans people feel in a way where I can best justify this to myself.
I do understand everyone's responses so far, I am just being picky I guess
this is because I am searching for something more specific.
Thank you to everyone who continues to respond and educate me on your unique perspectives towards my curiousity.

>>8476890
>some people do not feel like they fit into the mold of the gender they were born with

Not true. Some mtfs trans are masculine, some are feminine. Some ftm trans are masculine, some are feminine. It has nothing to do with gender roles or preferences at all, it's about gender dysphoria which is a deeprooted instinctive feeling.

Some people have gender dysphoria and transition is the medical answer to dealing with it. The constant feeling of wrongness your body naturally feels if you're trans is unberable to experience every second of every day week after week month after month year after year form early childhood for forever, it's unbearable and make syou want to die to escape the pain. Transition alleviates or removes dypshoria entirely by removing the feeling of wrongness.

>>8476890
It's not something that is really easy to explain. It just does feel natural, it relieves the feelings of our dysphoria. The cause of dysphoria is completely unknown, and the research is heavily lacking, but the treatment is well documented.

from the post about mtf people being masculine and the reverse of this sometimes being true,
this leads me to believe that some people wish to fill the societal mold of a certain gender in total
and there are others who are not fully filling the stereotypical mold of a gender,
but these people are most importantly want just appearance to change,
although it may not be only appearance, just that appearance is the largest priority?
and on top of this there are those who fall between these 2 situations?

>>8476956
Where did you get any of that? All the posts above you contradict that

It has nothing to do with fitting a 'mold' at all

>but these people are most importantly want just appearance to change,
No dummy the most important thing is for dysphoria to not make you want to kill yourself. Changing your appearance is medical treatment, not the goal itself

>>8476978
Let me break it down further

>brain tells me I'm a girl even though I'm biologically male (I'm born with xy chromosomes)
>brain makes me feel internal distress when information contradicts my brain telling me that I'm a girl
>to stop this feeling (gender dysphoria) I have to change myself enough that I feel like my body matches what my brain is telling me and so that other people see me as the gender my brain tells me I am
This is where transition comes in
>I'm really tall
>I didn't know anything about women's clothes or makeup because I never gave a shit about it (my interests were basically guns and video games)
>I grew up being told to not be feminine and having natural feminine behavior I exhibited corrected by parents, bullies etc. so now as an adult I look and act masculine
>as a result I had to spend a lot of time working on my wardrobe, practicing my voice, mastering makeup etc all to offset my natural maleness so that people will see me as a girl
>after a long time of money, effort and practice it worked
>barely ever feel dysphoria
>people generally see me as a girl in public, people who think I look a little 'off' (due to my male frame) especially see me as a girl once I start speaking because my face and voice pass
>no more feeling of wrongness everyday
>no more disconnect
>don't have to feel like shit day after day for years and no longer want to kill myself

>>8476890
Not an anon that posted yet, but yes, for a lot of trans people the strongest motivator is what makes them feel uncomfortable. Not the case for all though.

As far as MtFs go I'm pretty tomboyish, long hair, slim figure, plaid shirts, grey jeans and cons. I like dresses and makeup; I don't feel the need to wear them but I'll try them every now and again.

However, if you asked me to try something manly like a suit with broad shoulders and a tie I'd argue with you black and blue. Why? I can't say exactly but I have an aversion to quite a few particularly masculine things.

I'll try and relate it to you, have you ever just picked up an item of clothing, or played a game, or watched a movie and thought, "you know, this really just isn't my kind of thing. I'd prefer X instead."?

I am sorry that I keep getting things wrong, I am only trying to draw conclusions from what I am reading.
Does this sound better?
There is disconnect between mental feelings of gender and how people are recognized by themselves physically, and or other people.
The most popular or most effective (<--I feel this is where I may still be a little confused on motivation vs how to change and where the differences between the 2 are)
ways to deal with this are through changing physical appearance because physical associations people have are so strong.
This is about making people comfortable mentally and physically and minimizing the disconnect within oneself.

From here, am I to understand that people are expressing themselves with respect to the gender they best identify,
and go as far as they see fit to show the world and themselves how they feel?
and if this is true or even just going in the right direction,
how big of a role do gender stereotypes play a role in transitioning and self expression in general?

>>8477058
Now you're getting it

>how big of a role do gender stereotypes play a role in transitioning and self expression in general?
They play a far bigger role in being accepted by others, not nearly as important for seeing yourself as the gender your brain tells you that you are. Trannies often have to fall into stereotypes as a necessity of being accepted because their options of expression are limited by their genetics (the face, frame, body of their birth sex), whereas someone who is cis can act as masculine or feminine as they want and still be seen as their birth sex.

Okay, now could someone help me really get the down the separation between "problem" and "cure".
What I mean by this is like how I guess changing genders is how you feel whole again,
can someone explain were this is different from like what the motivation is to change?
Hopefully that makes sense.
I know you guys are answering a lot and I really appreciate hearing these things repeated and from different people to get multiple perspectives, it helps.

>>8478914
Transition is far from a cure, it's an experimental treatment that is not proven to work long-term. Short-term, it has documented benefits due to living out a fantasy, but long-term it is simply treating a mental illness as if it is a "birth defect".

Non-trans AGP here. The cure needs more research, more science, and most of all needs open minds. I'm here to bring awareness of the potential for different views, and a cure.

>>8476459
basically boils down to wanting to physically rip every part of me that is male off of my body

>>8476791
first of all gender is nonbinary, stuff like chromosomes are a way to tell someones gender sure, but conditions like androgen insensitivity make it not perfect, just like any other arbitrary method.

A better way to look at the situation is to look at someone born with lukemia or whatever, they get born with the trait that makes it likely, and it hits them at some point hard. we have no cure for their genes or even for lukemia, but we do have treatments that make them live longer and have a more fulfilling life. don't you want to give them that treatment? or should we deny them that treatment because their genes say "Well sorry, you have lukemia"

>>8484202
"Treatmente" that are not proven to work scientifically long-term, and are not good for the outcomes of Trans/AGP/Dysphoric people.

>>8484693
false
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12856892