Female hormones?

Also, where are they on a cure for gender dysphoria? I mean a real one, not some conversion therapy. They should have one for those of us who want to not be this way.

>>8382049
>Also, where are they on a cure for gender dysphoria?
None has ever worked.

>>8382038
>What exactly would happen if I started taking female hormones?
Your body would start to feminize around your masculine skeleton. Fat redistribution will take a number of years, but you will eventually have female fat distribution. Softer skin.
>Would the hormones make me impotent eventually? I already have nearly zero sex drive.
they may change your sex drive. Your fertility likely will go away.
>Would the effects be concealable?
no
>Would my beard stay where it is?
it will get thinner and grow much slower.

>What exactly would happen if I started taking female hormones?
If starting at < 20 a few things.
If starting at > 25 nothing.

t. hon

>>8383287
It's mostly genetics though. I started at 27 and hormones seem to be working just fine and I've had perfectly normal breast growth.
I didn't age very much over the past 5-6 years though.

>>8383287
What if you're between 20 and 25?

>>8383300
I'm so relieved when people like you post. I'm 23 and starting soon and I always get super freaked out that it wont do anything.

>>8383316
>I'm so relieved when people like you post. I'm 23 and starting soon and I always get super freaked out that it wont do anything.
Well I've had tons of weird growth issues. Some good, some bad. Had tons and tons of surgeries throughout my childhood. I'm not entirely sure if it has resulted in stunted growth but I was like 90lbs until I was 18 lol

If I am cis and take female hormones will I get bigger boobs without surgery? Will it make me go full psycho etc?

>>8383439
It'll probably make you bloat and get acne. I believe if I recall correctly excessive estrogen levels leads to fat distribution to the stomach, so it wouldn't really make you pretty.

>>8383439
You'd most likely see some breast growth assuming you're not already at a level of E that's capping out your receptor response.
You'll completely fuckup your menstrual cycle though and if you're susceptible to endometriosis that might occur as well. Plus it'll probably mess with your other hormones a lot as well.

>>8383439
In addition to what others have said, you might also get blood clots (yay!)

Stick to taking a low dosage.

>>8383439
if taking hormones was a safe way to get larger breasts then millions of women would be doing it instead of sewing plastic bags into their chests.
of course it doesn't work.
don't listen to the people who say that it might give you some increase.
it won't.
fiddling with your hormones is among the most dangerous things you can do to your body.

>>8383466
>>8383469
>>8383507
>>8383516

K thanks always wondered about it.

>>8382038
>My wife knows about me,
A G P
G
P

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>castrated femboy
>6 months of HRT

Anybody here know that med that allows for easy erections, while not counteracting feminization?
I've got a pretty high libido, but my body is starting to not respond as quickly as I'd like.

Thx!

>>8383866
viagra and similar.

>>8383866
How did you get an orchi? Do you just fake being trans to your doctor?

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>>8383866
>viagra
Shoot, not viagra.
Sorry, I should've specified.
I've seen it mentioned in the /hrt gen/ but never made a note of it. It's some relatively minor xenoestrogen or something.

>>8383879
Not quite. I was pretty clear in stating that I identified as a eunuch, albeit a feminine one. I was also 21. I got a letter after two meetings with a LCSW.

>>8383913
>Not quite. I was pretty clear in stating that I identified as a eunuch, albeit a feminine one. I was also 21. I got a letter after two meetings with a LCSW.
Oh wow. I'm surprised they didn't think you were straight up crazy and lock you up lol
I don't think my doctor would go for that at all.

>>8383920
I hear ya, but it's surprisingly common!
If you find a clinical counselor of any sort, particularly one with an LGBT background or focus, and you give them some reasoning for wanting it done, they'll often support you. Usually takes a few sessions, though.

Do you want an orchi? What are your goals?

>>8383287
Well, thats BS. I started at like 28 and Ive Gotten a decent amount of changes. Its more genetics/luck/ effort than anything else.

>>8383300
>>8383982
interesting
i started at 24 and beside body hair thinning, skin getting softer and puffy nips i got no changes

>>8383938
I'm not entirely sure of my goals lol
I started taking hormones, I honestly probably wouldn't mind an orchi though. I am most likely going to fully transition at some point I think but I mostly just wanted to be more fem and I don't care about losing dick function or anything cause I just bottom anyways.

>>8382038
People will call you cute and others will call you their daughter.
>true story

>>8385251
That's assuming you socially transition.

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I started HRT at 28, I'm six months on today.

>>8385267
I've been on for 13 months and either no one has noticed or they have and just think I'm cute. No negative comments besides being called "girl" in a derogatory way.

>>8385272
the amount of delusion

>>8385271
Do your eyebrows and stop combing your curly hair. Use mousse and gel instead, and let it air dry.

>>8382049
This. WHY is there ZERO development or even ATTEMPTS to try and cure this dreadful fucking shit. ESPECIALLY those that think they have "AGP" or something related to it and don't want it.

We still don't even know what causes people to be trans beyond a few minor studies that really need 100x more work.

Can someone be a trans activist for the science please, rather than just pushing estrogen down everyone's throat?

While not everyone wants to have a cure for this, why the hell shouldn't the people that do be able to have said cure?

>Only way I'd ever transition completely is if my family were dead and there was a way to give me a lab grown vagina that was fully functional.

THIS. Complete with full female organs, chromosome changes to XX, and absolutely zero way of telling.

>>8385335
>WHY is there ZERO development or even ATTEMPTS to try and cure this dreadful fucking shit.
Transition works reasonably well, so there's not much incentive to work on it.

>>8385310
I can't help they say. I'm just the cutest to them

>>8385344
If you suffer from gender dysphoria you're a tranny.
If you don't and experience non-dysphoric AGP, you're by definition not bothered by being male, so why do you need a cure for something not much more problematic than let's say foot fetish?
And if you experience dysphoria, but convince yourself you aren't trans based on some twisted blanchardian logic, that's your own fault.

>>8385340
"reasonably well"

Most trannies ending up hons, suicide rate still being sky high after transition, social stigma/trauma(some people just don't want to deal with that shit, and are happy being a guy ignoring the gender dysphoria), and so on.

Transition is not a complete science.

Chromosomes, lack of being able to give birth/have periods/so on, for some people health risks where they can't even take hormones/have surgeries), and so on.

And most but not least removing the incredible pain of gender dysphoria sufferers worldwide, a cure would save thousands of lives, as some people WILL kill themselves instead of transition. Why not offer a cure for those that want it?

There's plenty of incentive. It's just more profitable to exploit transition.

>>8385335
>Can someone be a trans activist for the science please, rather than just pushing estrogen down everyone's throat?
They'd be lynched.

>>8385360
See: Blanchard's typology. Regardless of it being correct or incorrect, the social reaction has been to lynch anyone that even proposes something different.

AGP's are already fucking lynched, all we need is a cure. There's many people that have names in the dirt. I'd donate money to a foundation working on an actual, real trans cure. But there isn't one. WHY?

>>8385354
>non-dysphoric AGP

>>8385390
Why not, people can get strangest fetishes.

>>8385390
Does that not exist?

>>8385356
surgical transition is shit and has immense consequences

feeding into the political belief that having gender dysphoria makes you, in ANY capacity, what you think you are, leads to le suicide

however
if you just get a fucking grip and take titty skittles you'll be OK

>>8385390
literally all that means is that you get off to the idea/fact of being physically feminine but you don't want to kill yourself in the meantime

>>8385271
lose some fucking weight and start laser/electrolysis and you'd actually fucking pass!

>>8385367
>I'd donate money to a foundation working on an actual, real trans cure. But there isn't one. WHY?
everything that has been tried has failed. Even torture can't change your gender. All it can do is make you afraid to express it, and that tends to really fuck you up bad. Good luck having a meaningful relationship in that state. The general consensus is the scientific and psychological communities is that it hard wired into your brain at a deep fundamental level.

>>8383866
>>8383913
fenugreek?

>>8385818
>literally all that means is that you get off to the idea/fact of being physically feminine but you don't want to kill yourself in the meantime

This is complete hogwash. "I like being a dude but I get off to the idea of being turned into a qt girl so that makes me on the ~~~~transgender~~~~ spectrum!!!"

Worthless peons scrambling to try anything you can to be part of the bandwagon. Why the fuck would you choose the transgender bandwagon? It's the shittiest one!

t. a male with a gender TF fetish

>>8385367
There probably isn't one because with our current forms of technology scientists do not see a scientific approach to be applied to the problem, besides transitioning.
You can't "cure" a person's certain mental characteristics that are based on "wrong" neural connections within the brain. The best that medicine could do right now is sedate people like this into being vegetables so that they don't feel their still existing dysphoria, but that is just symptom treatment, and not a cure.
Also religious conversion camps and whatnot that try these are the opposite of science.

>>8387071
>>>/lgbt/agpg

>>8387071
AGP is a fetish / mental illness
Trans is a mental illness
What about what I said is hogwash?
(I am the guy you replied to: >>8385818)

>>8386752
Why don't we keep trying? Why don't we fund more research into it?

To some people, transition simply isn't an option, and doesn't even make them happy, if anything it makes them worse.

While the general consensus is it's hard wired, that may NOT be the case. There is not enough evidence of this. There is some, but not conclusive.

Transition right now is essentially palliative care, for the very worst. It's honestly very lacking, and quite awful. That's no way to treat any problem.

For me, personally as a non-transitioning non-HRT AGP, it wouldn't help me to transition or take hormones in any manner, it would only make said suffering worse.

The suicide rates are still sky high, even post-transition. The quality of life for some actually decreases after transition, and they choose to go back. AGP may be forever, but surely there is something that can be done, even if it is along the lines of chemical repression.

>>8387071
Nobody wants to be AGP / HSTS. NOBODY. And if you do, you probably need more help than us.

>>8387232
There is not adequate proof that it is "wrong" neural brain connections. This is simply the current consensus over a very few, limited studies such as the BSTc study.

Additionally, for some people transition simply doesn't work. In these cases, there is really no options for these people. Do you advocate they just kill themselves?

>>8390371
>Nobody wants to be AGP / HSTS. NOBODY. And if you do, you probably need more help than us.
I already am but I wouldn't want to not be.

>>8390386
It's different if you already are. I mean, a cis person would never want to be AGP/HSTS.

Being attached to your identity is quite normal, for most people. Not for me.

>>8382049
>>8385335

Do you know how medicine works? You can't just magic a cure out of nowhere, especially for a psychiatric problem given it's still one of the fields of medicine we know the least about. And the funds for psychiatric research is better spent on far more prevalent issues than GID, like chronic depression, autism, bipolar disorder, personality disorders, PTSD, etc. And none of those have anything close to a cure despite some of them having been known and researched for centuries and being far easier to study.

Be thankful that we even have hormone therapy and transition.

>>8390432
I don't think it's purely being attached to it. It must be partly that but the idea of being normal feels repulsive to me.

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Being trans is nice. Transition was nice. Everything is nice.

>>8390442
Be thankful that none of the current treatments work for me, and I'm stuck with zero options? (Transition/hormones are NOT options for me.)

I'm aware it's one of the least known about issues. That's why we need more research for it, as breakthroughs will be easier in a field that is not so settled.

You're essentially advocating for someone's death. Good to know, will not reply to you from now.

>>8390450
Understandable, I guess.

>>8390457
replace nice, with suffering, and transition with repression-as-the-only-option, and you're on the right track.

>>8390442
>>8390470

Additionally, the issues I have are the science is outright shut down, and it's "just transition" shoved down your throat.

I wouldn't even bitch if there was even a SINGLE research company TRYING to cure this shit. There isn't.

>>8390470
>>8390474

Anon, please calm down.

I'm not saying you should just die, I'm not implying that at all.

The fact is that we simply have nothing to go on in regards to a magical non-transitioning cure for GID. I'm sorry but there just isn't. What you're saying is the equivalent of asking why we aren't throwing money towards discovering FTL. As far as we know FTL is impossible due to the laws of physics, as far as we know a non-transitioning treatment for GID is impossible due to the nature of gender and the human mind.

Is it technically possible that there could be a magic substance somewhere out there that magically cures GID? Yeah, but all the evidence we have says there isn't, and so there's no reason to throw money at what is essentially a brick wall hoping for a positive outcome. I'm sorry but there just isn't. There are psychiatrist issues that are more prevalent, more severe, more difficult to treat, and have a greater possibility of a cure, so those are the ones that are getting the bulk of the funds.

I wish there was just a simple pill I could take to instantly cure my GID too anon, trust me. But there isn't and nothing we know says there ever will be or could be. Please don't lash out against other anons or the medical community for not being able to fundamentally change how medicine and the human mind functions.

>>8390474
The reason current treatment doesn't work for some people is social factors (e.g. not being able to transition early due to family).

So why should somebody spend a huge amount of money and manpower, that could be used to research cure for other mental illnesses, on something that may not even bear fruit?

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>>8390470
>replace nice with suffering
No.

>>8390496
I've been mistreated by the joke that is the medical community my entire life. Most of their money is disproportionally wasted on retarded studies that help noone anyways.

We would have all the other shit cured already if they didn't. I just want to be able to have hope, but yet there is none. You're basically encouraging suicide saying the opposite, regardless of what you intend.

Also, there IS money being thrown towards space and space exploration, even if not specifically FTL. There's absolutely none being thrown towards exploring non-transition methods, whatsoever. I'm not asking for magic, or some form of FTL. I'm asking for some form of treatment that is even slightly effective, trials of already known substances, and stuff like that.

There are many more issues out there that are prevalent, correct. And they should be funded, absolutely. But there is zero reason why there should not be funding for other things as well.

There is so many things out there, that have zero possibility of a cure only because people believe there is zero possibility of a cure. GID is one of them. People have settled for transition (There are some that legitimately want it, of course!)

The current evidence is far from conclusive. Science is also very politicized towards one way or another, with other possible truths being shut out, even when not objectively proven false.

I'm not "lashing out". I am simply stating facts here, nothing more. I'm not asking for bam here's the cure. I'm asking for even a slight bit of hope. But there isn't any, and *even other people that suffer from this* don't give a fuck.

Shows how retarded the world is.

>>8390498
It has nothing to do with social factors, at least for me. There is many reasons I do not wish to transition that go above and beyond simple social issues.

>>8390526
Well, I don't think I've ever experienced something I can say that's objectively "nice" about this shitty existence.

Good for you that you're happy, but not everyone is.

>>8390496
Oh, and there actually is people working on potential FTL travel methods.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't try!

>>8390534
>Also, there IS money being thrown towards space and space exploration
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html
>There is many reasons I do not wish to transition that go above and beyond simple social issues.
Like?

>>8382038
Are you the airforce anon?

Hormones will give you:
>boobs, although the results of this are heavily, heavily dependent on age, genetics, diet, etc, you might get pretty decently shaped and large breasts or almost nothing and anywhere inbetween
>galactorrhea
>softer skin
>feminine hair
>fat redistribution, meaning instead of having a male fat pattern (fat accumulating mainly in stomach, butt) you'll very slowy develop a female one (fat accumulating in chest, butt, and thighs)
>the fat on your face will also redistribute, but the effects will be more subtle
>weaker and smaller muscle
>weaker bones
>a possibility of bone growth in the hips, but this is EXTREMELY unlikely if you're over 20, and even at 18-20 it's pretty unlikely
>erectile dysfunction
>sterility
>shrinkage of male genitalia (penis and testes)
>girl smell
>changes in sex drive, sometimes lessened sometimes heightened
>a possible change in sexual orientation
>generally more happiness
>the cessation of balding
>possibility of some major health complications like blood clots, breast cancer, etc

What hormones won't change
>voice, you'll have to manually train it which is quite difficult and time-consuming
>your height, you're stuck with whatever it is for life
>the vast majority of your bones, you won't have smaller shoulders or a rib cage, your face will mostly be the same, your feet and hands will be the same size, etc
>body hair and facial hair, over time it might become thinner and take longer to grow but it will never completely go away without things like electrolysis or laser hair removal
>a regrowth of any hair already lost to balding

>>8390551
I do not wish to talk about my personal issues with transition. But I can assure you, for me it is simply not an option. There is many, many, many issues with the concept of transition as a whole, as well.

There's plenty of reasons to explore space and space exploration. I'm not asking they stop space exploration, or even pull money from it - I think space exploration, as a whole is a great idea, and it can bring untold benefits in the future. Same with curing GID. The knowledge learnt from exploring the cure for it could bring extraordinary benefits to all forms of science.

I'm simply asking, that the option be there for someone to work on a cure for GID. There is no option, because of many reasons. Societal backlash against anyone suggesting anything except transition being the big one.

There is much less common diseases being researched at much greater lengths than GID, which has almost zero research of any form whatsoever, even transition-related is lacking heavily.

>tfw too scared to take hormones or do anything
>just imagine dying all day
>about to turn 20 and no accomplishments in life

i wish someone would kill me

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>>8390573
>I can assure you, for me it is simply not an option.

>>8390573
> for me it is simply not an option.
Is or has never been? Because if you hadn't sought transition when it'd have worked because of your family or how society is then guess what? Social factors were at play.

>>8390582
Welcome to my world, but 100x less terrible than that.

Can't take hormones for many reasons, which I will not go into here for personal reasons.

Permanently suffering and empty inside, with no dreams passions or goals beyond hoping there's a cure.

About to turn 30, zero accomplishments, permanent disability pension due to the joke of a medical system being completely unable to help with anything.

In the end, life is suffering. Just gotta keep suffering and hope people get their heads out of their asses (they never will.)
>>8390584
Very funny.

>>8390586
Has never been an option for me, at any circumstance. Is completely unrelated to any and all social factors beyond the fact social factors stop people researching a cure.

>>8390594
>Has never been an option for me, at any circumstance.
Suuure.

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>>8390594
Life, uh, finds a way. Why are you so attached to your balls, anyway?

>>8390603
Not attached to them at all, and don't really care at all. But transitioning only partially wouldn't help me whatsoever. Nor would crossdressing, or anything else. Been there, tried that.

>>8390607
And by partially, I mean without HRT or anything.

>>8390607
>Been there, tried that.
Bullshit. One doesn't try an orchiectomy. There's no demo. You merely refuse to exhaust your options.

>>8390594
Do you have a medical issue that makes taking hormones impossible? Otherwise I can't think of anything that would make you unable to pursue hormones and transition barring social factors.

>>8390618
An orchi wouldn't help, beyond making me ball-less. If a procedure would not help me, why the fuck would I bother?

And by tried that, I meant options that aren't HRT that would make me happy.

I guess I could try it, but in the end it would do nothing. I don't see a point in it at this stage, I'd rather try to live as a guy in repression.

>>8390639
Why haven't you tried HRT?

Anyways, I'm done for now. Just making me more sad. Goodbye for now, everyone.

Don't worry, I'll be back, I'm here forever.

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>>8390639
You couldn't possibly understand. It's a leap of faith.

>>8390648
I've already said I do not wish to talk about it, for personal reasons. Goodbye.

>>8390657
>I do not wish to talk about it
Because you're afraid your reasons won't hold under scrutiny, which would make repression harder?

>>8383866
>he doesn't use a magic wand or rub it like a girl would

You have no idea what you are missing.

>>8390687
how to rub it like a girl?

>>8390371
>>8387232
I DO support analytical research to be done on trans people, so I agree with you on that. My response was just a logical guess as to why there is little effort in finding other types of treatments.
Aside from this, treatment and analysis are two very different topics, and the first one can involve morally questionable people drugging people into being zombies (see twentieth century UK gay-treatments).
In my opinion, efforts should be made to understand trans people scientifically, and should not yet be wasted on searching for a "cure" yet because even though the two are incremental, the technology just isn't there yet to be dealing with the second part.
I could see that in certain rare cases consensual sedation with antipsychotics or something similar (I'm not too familiar with medicine) might be a possible alternative, but a poor one nonetheless.

Then again, I do believe that suicide instead of a lifetime of numbed suffering is sometimes justified, after all I often consider it myself.

>>8390712
The common misconception is no boner = no pleasure. This works best if you have underwear or yoga or sweatpants on. Lean back. Spread legs enough to get comfortable. Thumb above. Middle and ring fingers on the underside. Then massage. Try the other hand if your dominant hand doesn't feel right. This technique will take longer than your old way, and it will be frustrating when you want to get over the edge. But, if you wait it out, it is totally worth it.

>>8390760
>can involve morally questionable people drugging people into being zombies (see twentieth century UK gay-treatments).
*cough* pimozade *cough*

>>8390371
>While the general consensus is it's hard wired, that may NOT be the case. There is not enough evidence of this. There is some, but not conclusive.
The evidence it is is pretty conclusive for gender being set in hardware during gestation or early right after.. W can't experiment on humans. So we use animal models instead

https://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
Says that the target sex of a fetus is able to change multiple times part way through development

Cross hormone studies of monkeys during gestation tell us that genital development is influenced by changes in hormones during early gestation. This gives us male, female and intersex genitals

Rat studies tell us that at roughly two thirds of the way through human gestation may be where gender is started to be set, and that hormones are what chooses gender

Orientation setting period of development isn't known, but it also is likely set by hormones. We just don't know when yet

From accident damage to the brain it is known that gender is controlled by the older reptile brain

This all says gender is setup in the hardware of the brain

The results of the estrogen treatments given to gays in England have shown that the chemical castration method of using cross sex hormones for homosexuality treatment cause mental issues akin to gender dysphoria in the recipients. Even including increased suicidality.

It was well known by the 1950s that all forms of talk therapy failed to change a person's gender. Even torture isn't able to change one's base gender. All it can do is cause fear based repression, and that is no way to live.

>Additionally, for some people transition simply doesn't work. In these cases, there is really no options for these people.
While true that transition might not work for all, it does work for most. It is still the only treatment that has worked. Note, not everybody needs to go the full 9 yards. Some can get my with as little as making accomidations, or just hormone therapy.

>>8391656
Only humans have gender. Animals only have sex.

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>>8391724
>humans r specul!!!

Yeah, keep telling yourself that armchair sociologist.

>>8391767
Name one species that could ever have this conversation.

If it's "human", you lose.

>>8391807
Parrots & monkeys can shitpost perfectly well without human interference.

>>8391825
t. lost

>>8385310
>>8385267
>>8390536
Just because transition doesn't work for some, doesn't mean you can deny when it does actually work.

>>8391889
t. angry because he can't use 4chan shitposting to prove his non-argument

>>8391767
Not that anon, but even for humans there isn't any test we can perform to check for gender identity, so how could we reliably check the gender identity of animals?

>>8396469
You're not going to get an answer.

>>8396469
There IS a way to check gender in humans. It's as "easy" as doing a brain scan.

>>8396469
>>8397725
All animals on Earth can be DNA sexed. Most animals simply are not dimorphic enough for severe issues with gender identity to "come up", so to speak: a transgender parrot or crow would have no problem at all "passing by default" without surgeries, or hormones, or makeup.

>>8397725
Funny how brain scans aren't used to tell if people are trans then!

>>8397781
Not that anon, but as far as I know most of the sexually dimorphic areas in the brain can't be examined on a scan, only through dissection, and obviously that isn't a practical method for diagnosis.

>>8397791
How amazingly convenient!

>>8397781
They are costly and more research would need to be done, but it is the best way, and a scan can detect sexually dimorphic areas of the brain, maybe not all of them but at least a couple, AFAIK.

>>8390534
>I've been mistreated by the joke that is the medical community my entire life.
I'm open to considering them a joke. How did they mistreat you?

>>8395951
>his
Absolutely disgusting.