Can HRT change orientation?

>>8285605
So the boy is AAP?

>>8285605
I used to think it couldn't but apparently it can???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
>In contemporary clinical practice, sexual orientation per se plays only a minor role in treatment protocols or decisions. Also, changes as to the preferred gender of sex partner occur during or after treatment (DeCuypere, Janes, & Rubens, 2005; Lawrence, 2005; Schroder & Carroll, 1999). It can be difficult to assess sexual orientation in individuals with a GI diagnosis, as they preoperatively might give incorrect information in order to be approved for hormonal and surgical treatment (Lawrence, 1999). Because sexual orientation subtyping is of interest to researchers in the field, it is recommended that reference to it be addressed in the text, but not as a specifier. It should also be assessed as a dimensional construct.

As an aside the idea that people can't be genuinely bisexual, including transsexuals, is not backed by anything. Pseudobisexuality exists but there is no reason why all transsexuals would have to only ever be pseudobisexual.

>>8285720
I wouldn't trust wikipedia on something like this.

>>8285741
That's a quote from APA, the organization that writes the DSM. Follow the cites. That's what they're there for.

>>8285751
It's citing Anne Lawrence the Blanchardian.

>>8285720
Is there a study that suggests trans-bisexuals, or bisexuals in general are just lying/telling the truth?

>>8285762
Among others. Not a shock since Blanchard was part of the group that wrote that thing. He kinda got cucked though. The very same paragraph goes into how sexual orientation doesn't play a meaningful role in reaching a diagnosis when it comes to transsexuality (i.e. the typology is not seen as valid). The DSM-5 definition of Gender Dysphoria does not make use of the typology. Put together this shows the group largely disregarded his input.

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>pre-transition
>hate men
>couple months of estrogen
>"a big strong man to protect me and open these jar lids would be quite nice"

>>8286347
being a radfem is hard to sustain when u think guys are hot

>>8286347
this.
>just want to cuddle with a man, have him hold me in his arms, open doors for me, dance with me ect.

>>8285605
I would have said I was bi before transitioning, but now I would consider myself straight and no interest in women other than admiring physical appearances.

>>8285799
They only disregarded his input on gender dysphoria, he was mostly there to write about pedophilia. I'm not even joking, that was his primary contribution to the DSM: "Blanchard also wrote the literature review paper for the DSM-5 committee regarding pedophilia, in which he summarized and attempted to address the criticism over the DSM-IV-TR definition of pedophilia." He also tried to introduce hebephilia, but they rejected his proposal.

>>8289657
Cool. Just because a man fucked up in one area doesn't mean he's wrong about everything I guess.

>>8289657
>>8289667
why are you guys so autistic about this guy? it seriously boggles my mind how often it's discussed here.

>>8289657
>trying to kick the H out of LGBTH

Thank goodness we live in more tolerant times. We all know that's a slippery slope to making being gay a disorder again.

>>8289672
You can see why it happened ITT.
Usually, though, people keep bringing up the typology as if it is still seen as a legitimate Thing by anyone. Kinda forces my hand. When people will stop doing so I'll stop arguing with them.

>>8289672
it's literally the crusty old fucker, blanchard himself

anecdotal but I've read and spoken to many people who claimed they were bi and became hetero (as in mtf attracted to men) after HRT
and even non-trans who turned rather gay from bi after hormonal changes

>>8289786
What kind of hormonal changes to non-trans get?

>>8289689
I used to see the topology as 100% valid until hormones made me attracted to men. But now I'm struggling to believe in the AGP typology because I didn't choose this new orientation.

>>8290387
>But now I'm struggling to believe in the AGP typology because I didn't choose this new orientation.
???

If they can why don't scientists engineer a drug that gives you effects of adjusting your sexuality a bit without fucking up your body?

>>8285720
...anon, did you read *any* of those studies before concluding they had to be describing something other than meta-attraction?
the fact one of them is by anne lawrence should have been a clue they weren't necessarily describing different phenomena
(significant note: i believe 'trubi' is at least theoretically possible in the context of mtf transsexualism, and is measurably existent in ftm)

>>8290387
>But now I'm struggling to believe in the AGP typology because I didn't choose this new orientation
meta-attraction is not a choice

>>8290393
The theory says non-homosexual transsexuals can't genuinely become attracted to men. So those who say their orientation changed via hrt are presumably lying.

I just feel like that isn't true because I didn't choose this orientation change. But seeing my friend teabag masculine videogame characters turns me on so much now

>>8290415
My fantasies didn't involve me at first. Rather, two guys going at it together

>>8290410
I didn't conclude this! They could be describing a number of different things. I didn't think orientations could change period prior to hearing of them, which is why I brought them up.

>>8290428
It's not true or backed by anyone, its pseudo science tested in a few studies in Toronto, the fact that it's discussed here is a giant meme or some kind of inside joke between some toronto fag students or something

>>8290445
I feel like there's lots of Toronto fag students here. It wasn't like this a year ago..

It would be nice if the topology was untrue because it's making my sexuality feel like a giant pile of fakery

>>8290453
Stop internalizing 4chan discussion norms you will make youself miserable.

>>8290461
Nobody outside of here gives a shit about typology and you shouldn't either.

>>8290461
>>8290462
Okay, you're actually right. If it weren't for 4chan I'd probably be trying to gain a boyfriend instead of thinking I'm fake.

I'll probably just come out to people and leave 4chan behind

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>>8285605
>>8290428
I used to hate guys, they grossed me out and I was actually into girls.

Now 18 months hormones I've broken up with my girlfriend and am hooking up with my best guy friend + another guy.

I didn't even find them attractive in the slightest before, now they're all I can think about. Cuddling, having them around me, how they hug me, their weird/cute smiles.. their smell?? Everything is so damn hot I love them so much

What the fuck even happened, was I always like this?

Sexuality can operate on different levels of the mind and can change literally just depending on mood, and the circumstances in which an answer to the question of sexuality is sought after. Hormones are just another, non-insignificant factor of influence. They don't dictate.

>>8290491
If you're like me then part of you always wanted it, it just didn't feel natural enough to you so you cut the idea off in your head.

>>8290471
That's a great idea. Good luck.

>>8290491
I think a lot of what is called AGP is just testosterone poisoning and lack of estrogens. Nuke the test and get estrogens and you can be more normal.

I'm ftm and I went from being borderline asexual to liking girls.

I've had a gf for 2 years now, I've always been bisexual and am about to transition. I really love her, I'd hate to not be attracted to her when I transition. I'd feel even more guilty if I ended up that way after all she had to go through.

>>8291933
Well if she truly loves you she'll understand, and maybe you can still stay really close friends?

>>8291933
just tough it out. if you really love her you will still love her it's just you might not be as attracted to her.

>>8291783
I started off as an asexual mtf who went straight, so pretty much just like you but the opposite.

>>8290559
Thanks. It's easy to internalize the theories, but until they can concretely disprove all opposing theories, and concretely prove their own without resorting to shoehorning people into inappropriate boxes that don't fit the topology, it's still a pseudo science.

>>8291950
>>8291959
I hope that if it happens, then maybe at least it could be mutual. It'd spare so much pain.

>>8290491
How did you get your best guy friend to get used to you being a girl? I want to date my best friend but I'm afraid he'll be weirded out by it because he's known me for 10 years. Sort of hope he's gay because that would make it easier for both of us; no need to come out as trans then

>>8290491
>Cuddling, having them around me, how they hug me, their weird/cute smiles.. their smell??
Pseudobisexuality?

>>8293354
Yeah I know. My experience is word-for-word just like hers and it doesn't feel fake or have any pseudo-bisexuality at all.

>>8293354
is it so hard to believe that people genuinely like dicks

>>8293427
She didn't say she does.

>>8293489
i meant dicks metaphorically

>>8293505
Pseudo = metaphorical.

>>8293514
pseudo means fake not metaphorical

>mtf
>bi slighty towards men and strong for women
>start hormones
>totally asexual, fapless
>my mtf gf fucks me in the ass for the first time day im feeling on the mood
>from that onwards i desperatly feel i need a man by my side to be treated as a female
>realize i turned from a virgin straight man, to a little girl who wants a man by her side and enjoy taking it on the ass

>>8293559
What was your asexual period like?

>>8293716
boring as fuck, i sleep around 3 or 4 days per week with my gf and i didnt feel aroused at all, we didnt fapped or blow for like a month or two.

the months before my transition i was very dominant, still i never fucked her, i had her blowing me and jerking me off for hours

>>8290500
I wonder if I just always stopped myself. I didn't really want to face how GNC I was as well.

>>8293319
We've known each other since the start of year 7, so 10 years? We took each other as formal dates in Year 12 as a joke since we were sort of the funny guys of our social group.

When I transitioned it was ok for a bit, but when I started passing all the time it was different. We travelled overseas a bunch (he's a pilot, I pretend to be his partner to stay on his staff travel) and started having pretend, jokey almost roleplaying dates. I remember in Tokyo he pretended to be some Australian businessman and I'd joke about how I'm travelling and we'd pretend we'd never met each other before.

We found it so funny. In Seoul things got progressively more and more awkward/heated and eventually we just started making out.. He says he sees me as a girl and that he's 'straight'. He almost sees me as an entirely separate person to when I was a kid if that makes sense? I'm going to have surgery soon so maybe we can actually normal sex things lmao

>>8293354
What's this?

I used to think I was a bit bi but it turns out the T just made me think I sorta maybe could have liked girls

>>8285605

Just what the fuck is the context of that picture?

>>8293523
it can also mean not fully developed, or like a ''lite'' version. I'm attracted to females of all races but only to asian or black men, unless they're very feminine, which you could call pseudobisexuality i guess... I've given up trying to categorize this shit, it doesn't really matter what words you use if you're following what you feel :)

>>8300905
its a femboy/crossdresser, or maybe a MtF if youre feeling fashy

>>8285605
I used to be bi with a preference for women before I started HRT, but I've been on HRT for two years now and I'm still bi but I have a preference for men instead.
My theory is that this has to do with pheromones. One thing I noticed in the first few months is that my sweat seemed to smell different; in fact, it smelled kind of good? But after a few more months I got used to it and it started stinking again, although it still smells different to me than it used to. I'm pretty sure it's still the same smell that smelled good at first, but because it's my own smell I've gotten used to it and it doesn't smell good anymore.
I've noticed that instead, guys tend to smell good now.
Although it's a maybe a little creepy to talk about the smell of sweat so much, I really think this is what caused my sexuality to shift.

Pre-hrt I considered myself bi leaning towards women but never found myself attracted to any guys in real life and could never picture myself enjoying a relationship with a guy. 7 months into estrogen I feel completely attracted to girls and now the sexual feelings I had towards guys previously disgust me (usually). I'm afraid that hrt is going to make me like guys given more time but also at the same time I don't think that will happen(?) The thought just terrifies me honestly, guys are super gross