Are there any late bloomers here? I've just turned 24 and

>>8204142
What you just dated guys until today?

>>8204198
Officially, yes.
Unofficially, no. I'm from Oklahoma, couldn't just advertise that shit. I've had 'friends'--kissing and cuddling--but we all knew we would just move on and settle on something. A ton of them are mothers and married or baby mommas. Welcome to Oklahomo.

>>8204142
>How do I learn to gay?
Rub pussy on pussy, eat pussy, eat ass.
>How do I come out of the closet?
Say to your mom and dad that you like pussy and ass.
>Where do I even go to meet lesbians?
idk go ask /Lesbian General/ you dumb bitch, why did you even make a separate thread.

>>8204253
>I've had 'friends'--kissing and cuddling--but we all knew we would just move on
So were they lesbians too or what?

>>8204289
I didn't ask. All of the families in my schooling years were hyper-christian, in the sense of extremely anti-gay. We didn't talk about that shit, we just did what we did and then didn't talk about it. We all knew what the sleepovers were for. Heavy petting at the most y'all, we were just kiddos. I was always confused though. I guess because flirting type talk is kinda like girl talk in general. I'd be trying to get at a girl and she'd think we were just playing grab ass. Anyway, come around high school, everyone starts pairing off with guys. I did too. Difference being that they were dumb asses and got pregnant with other dumb asses. I just had the sex, never got off on it til I got a vibrator to aide me in the task. Does that make me not gay? I had sex with all these guys. Haven't really had the chance to even try to climax with a lady. Sleepovers ended in middle school.

Anyway, fast forward to now: I've got my own job, my degree, prospects and am newly single from my most recent ex and I sign up for a HER account. Don't got much to lose, I figure. All of them seem to be high schoolers or underclassmen that are lying about their age.

>>8204378
>I guess because flirting type talk is kinda like girl talk in general.
How so?

>Does that make me not gay?
It doesn't, I just wonder how you could stand it or say ok to it.

>>8204278
Let's put this into perspective: When I was six years old, my mom took me to Walmart and told me she would be really sad if I was a lesbian. That's the situation we're dealing with. I was six and didn't even know what a lesbian was. My mom thinks that every lesbian she meets is out to get her puss. She ain't even attractive guys. I suppose I'm your typical repressed southerner.

>>8204402
>How so?
Well, I'd tell them how nice they looked, they'd say the same, dress up, and we'd do each other's hair/makeup/nails, talk about our innermost thoughts (still keeping up your guard, of course). Cuddle up and whisper. Massages too sometimes, those were nice. They were honest to god massages though, nothing frisky.

>>8204408
Ok.
Then you move out, make a new circle of friends, and start out as openly lesbian.
Problem solved.
If your parents find out later be like "bye dumb idiots, i already have my own life now".

>>8204402
Well, men don't disgust me, I enjoy sex but I never orgasm without some sort of vibrator. And was in love with a man for years of my life, lived with him throughout college. Of course it didn't work out. He was never what I needed.

>>8204463
I don't live with them. Like I said, I have my own prospects and I've called myself bisexual for a while but have never acted upon it.

Men are thirsty as hell and always end up popping out of the woodwork, and if I get along with them finely then I sleep with them, go out on dates, etc.. It's not like I don't get aroused by an attractive man. Is it so black and white, cause I got no clue.

All I know is I've always remembered being attracted to women and fantasizing about them, masturbating to the thought of being with a girl I liked at the time. Done the same to the thought of men too. But I always end up feeling like being with them is a chore. I get sick of it. Like just when I'm fixing to get to that we-should-be-together-forever stage, I turn tail and dump em. Move on to something newer, get my excitement from that. Damnit, does any of this make sense?

>>8204378
Honestly nah it's ok I was kinda the same except never really slept much with guys.

HER kinda sucks in that it is a lot of babies. I've found some luck with some +21 wlw kinda groups on tumblr but it's hit or miss. It's just a lot of shuffling through bullshit hoping to find someone decent. But I guess that's just how dating be when the dating pool is small.

Try just straight up googling gay clubs near you. You'll probably end up at one meant for gay men but hopefully the dudes can point you in the right direction or sometimes the club will have a ladies night. There's no learning to gay or whatever. You're kinda constantly coming out of the closet unless you pin a rainbow flag to your shirt cause everyone just assumes straight unless told otherwise. So just come out to who you feel it matters to and just don't bother to lie if you don't feel like it in conversation to whoever else.

I've you're moved out of your family and no longer financially dependent than do whatever in that situation. Tell them or don't it's up to you but they're gonna find out eventually. Parents just kinda know after a while of you not bothering to bring some dick around to introduce. I'd say give them a chance to not be assholes about it. Like yeah maybe they're disappointed in it cause they figure you're making life harder but if after a while you show you can still take care of yourself and be happy while having a gf maybe they'll chill out about it. Or maybe they forever think you're going to hell and choose god over children

It's a lot better being gay with some other gay than being gay alone.

>>8204468
How were you in love with him without being attracted to him?

>>8204528
>>8204528
I kinda get you?

Like me in high school I'd date guys that asked me out, we'd make out kinda and it felt like a chore that I assumed every girl just put up with, they'd buy me shit, we'd get to the point where they'd want sex and I'd be a prude saying I was waiting for marriage and we'd break up. But the truth was I just didn't wanna have sex with guys, never felt that itch. I just thought other girls slept with guys cause they wanted jewelry or to not go single to dances or for social reasons to be cool.

Finally in college I slept with a guy and it was this "ugh fuck is this it this was just uncomfortable". I'd watched porn before but it was usually soft core girl masturbating at most or some straight porn so I knew I could get off it just wasn't clicking in my mind.

Then it happened that I a girl I liked liked me. And it kinda clicked in my head that it was possible for me to date her and that liking girls and dating them was what lesbians were and that's what I was. I know that sounds stupid but my whole life before I'd kinda felt these feelings for girls but it was always just too impossible to consider further. Like I'd like a girl, but she was straight and talked about boys to the thought of dating her never came up. And occasionally the older cool lesbian was around but she was too old or cool to notice me so whatever.

But once I felt all that like for a girl and then she casually mentioned she was a lesbian it was this "OH FUCK YOU MEAN I COULD DATE YOU? WHAT OH SHIT WHAT DO I DO WITH THIS POSSIBILITY? I'VE NEVER BEEN IN THIS SITUATION WHERE I LIKED A GIRL AND IT WAS POSSIBLE SHE'D LIKE ME BACK"

And we fucked around a lot and dated and I felt that gay emotion love and it was this "Oh fuck duh this is that stupid shit other girls were going on about where you wanna be around a guy and like give a fuck about him and wanna kiss his face and touch his hair, except it's a girl. got it. right. "

So it's really nice when that shit clicks.

>>8204554
We started dating in high school. I cared deeply for him and would've done anything for him. Looking back on the relationship, I wasn't really that sexually attracted to him. He was rather feminine looking but tried to act the part of 'manly', which was very unattractive.

I've had plenty of hook-ups with very attractive men though. Wasn't in love with them, goes without saying. Any of the older men I was with, there was always an intellectual connection between us, since going to museums and watching to documentaries are my idea of a good time. They were typically my professors or just professors in general. Didn't ever sleep with those ones.

>>8204603
>"Oh fuck duh this is that stupid shit other girls were going on about where you wanna be around a guy and like give a fuck about him and wanna kiss his face and touch his hair, except it's a girl. got it. right. "

But I've felt like that with some men too. I think that this means I just like both but I'm more romantically compatible with women? I mean, in my area, at my age, you're not gonna meet that many women that are willing to get close and intimate. I settled. Not to degrade my feelings for them. I'd still cuddle my most recent ex if he asked. He's so good at it. Skin intimacy is really vital for me I figure...so I settled my intimacy pool on men.. Does anyone else get depressed about this. This is all really new.

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>>8204142
>Are there any late bloomers here?

Yep. Didnt start transition untill I was like 28 and didn't openly admit I liked girls until last year.
Before that I was functionally asexual.
I missed a lot of shit but you are only 24 so you arent that bad off. You are at least cis, Just get the fuck out of Oklahoma for christssake

> I suppose I'm your typical repressed southerner

Im originally from a small town in North Carolina so I know that feel.

>>8204657
I mean if you've felt actual romantic love for guys and have fantasized sexually for them you could just be bi but just not able to get your sexual needs met by dudes (could just be you can't communicate "hey use a fucking vibrator on my clit").

And maybe cause you've had such lackluster experiences with dudes sexually and women are all forbidden you're more into that as a novel thing.

Which cool whatever. Just go fuck some women. But I get the feeling if it's just all that shit you might settle with a guy in the long run just cause it's more accessible and accepted.

But idk if you're bi or lesbo cause like you say you're experiences are limited right now to that more long term thing with your ex, some various flings with dudes, and light petting with girls. Gotta try more girls.

Just try what interests you, don't stress the label so much.

But when trying to get into another girl don't talk a whole lot about all the dudes you slept with or your ex. Not that every lesbian is all muh-goldstar but no girl into girls wants to hear about dick and shit.


Try getting into a major city. Even in conservative states the cities tend to be more gay havens where homos will move just to be kinda near each other to better then numbers games.

>>8204676
Then you know what I mean.
My family is important to me. My nephew, he is coming up on two years old, is the light of my life and I don't know what I'd do without him. I love my parents and my little sister, the whole of them. I couldn't lose them if I had the choice. I'd almost just rather settle down with someone of the opposite gender and hopefully it's someone who doesn't suck the life outta me.

>>8204738
>Not that every lesbian is all muh-goldstar but no girl into girls wants to hear about dick and shit

Good point, I'll be taking that into consideration.

>>8204739
My family is close too but if you really are lesbian dudes aren't a substitute worth it. Like damn if my family isn't my life and I did near lose them and still have some important ones that cut me off but years later (I was 23 coming out) it's kinda worth it. Just to be able to breath easier not having to lie and to know I can feel love properly. I think less about my nephews and nieces now and more about how I'm gonna raise some kids in the future and maybe have my own family.

I guess if you are bi yeah settle down straight and let it be. I'd probably do the same if I were even a little more down on the kinsey scale.

>>8204603
>it felt like a chore that I assumed every girl just put up with, they'd buy me shit,
>I just thought other girls slept with guys cause they wanted jewelry or to not go single to dances or for social reasons to be cool.
It's strange imagining what a relationship like that must be like.

Do gay guys get the same thing in reverse?

22 years old and beginning to question my sexuality in several ways.

Apparently it's "gay" or something to imagine yourself as the girl when watching porn. I dunno

>>8204614
>but tried to act the part of 'manly', which was very unattractive.
So you like partners acting feminine as well as being physically feminine?

What was the love and deep care for him like without sexual attraction? Was it still romantic?

>Any of the older men I was with, there was always an intellectual connection between us, since going to museums and watching to documentaries are my idea of a good time.
Were they happy with it being a non-sexual relationship? If there was no sex or love and just an intellectual connection, was it even really a hook-up? Did them being attractive matter?

>>8204657
Maybe you like men as well as women in an intimate sense but only women sexually?

>>8204764
Suffocating is a good word for it.
One thing that always struck me is how I felt like I could be myself around a woman I liked. Mentally, with men it's like there's this constant expectation to be something I'm not. Like I'm supposed to be their mother or something of that sort, but at the same time I am too clingy. I'm always trying to live up to this standard of myself and I don't know what it even looks like. Physically, I often feel I'm not attractive enough. I mean I'm definitely not unattractive, but I'm not a model either. I'm small and look like a womanly tomboy.

With women, though, everything's different. I do what I want and I feel unrestrained. There's no constant questioning about myself in that moment, I'm just me, do you catch my feeling? That and I find so many women to be incredibly beautiful the girl I'm talking to right now is a bit bigger but I came twice just thinking about her earlier.

>>8204853
No, the hook-ups and the connection I had with the professor types are two separate pools of relationships. There was definitely sexual tension with the professor types but we never had sex with one another. I even went down to Dallas and met up with one of my ex-professors and even kissed.

>>8204739
I get it. Even though I have a complicated relationship with my parents ( they dont know Im trans or a lesbian) Im scare to death of telling them since I dont want to loose them. I love my nieces to death, too. Even the oldest, who is a terrible person but I look at her and I see back when she was born and I just cant be mad at her for too long.
But anyway, if you are capable of being with a dude, then be my guest but if you are more romantically compatible with women then you maybe going with women is a better option for your emotional sanity? Even still, what if you meet a girl thats perfect for you before you meet a dude you can settle for?

>>8204881
I always used to joke with my friends that my mother's probably just glad I found that boy in high school. That way I wasn't able to go off to college and be gay, haha, fuck me this sucks.

>>8204881
>they dont know Im trans or a lesbian
Look, I'm not pulling the "aren't you just a straight man" line, but I seriously doubt most parents with mtf daughters care that she's into other girls. If anything, I expect it would be a relief.

>>8204796
Don't gay dudes have beards sometimes? Like a girl they'll date/marry just to keep the closet locked.

It's usually a super prude girl waiting for marriage. I remember cause in high school one of the guys I dated longest was an actual gay dude, told me so half way through, and we kinda just kept dating past prom just to both not have to stress over anyone wondering who we were dating in senior year.

Guy was great. Later when I came out in near after college he said he figured but just didn't wanna be the one to out me or ask me about it cause he personally hated getting asked if was gay. Then he moved the fuck off to Australia with some sugar daddy. God bless him wherever he be.

Either way all these fake relationships were very childish since they were in high school. I feel bad now looking back. Even during them I felt like a bitch cause I could tell besides sex some of the guys really did care for me, a couple said love, but I just couldn't return it or see them that way and just wanted a guy to call my boyfriend so no one, not even myself, would wonder why I didn't have a boyfriend like all my friends.

Also legit I liked free jewelry even if it was tacky stupid shit I'd pawn later. The only thing I liked from dating guys was it was nice getting free shit and now I'm usually the one buying things for my girl. But I do like spoiling her. Like it's just fun to see her face or see her wearing something I bought and being like "haha mine" in my head.

>>8204861
Yeah I got that feeling. It's basically faking it. You're thinking "uh this is what a girl super into her man does right? sitting on the lap still a thing? uh we hold hands at this point or nah?" instead of it just naturally flowing that you kiss when you wanna actually kiss.

I kinda got opposite. When first getting into dating girls I worried about not being attractive enough and started running to lose weight and "tone" and getting more into style.

>>8204408
>my mom took me to Walmart and told me she would be really sad if I was a lesbian

Was...there some significance to Walmart in regards to this talk?

>This is important, honey. We need to talk on sacred ground.

>>8204905
moms will bring up the most random topics to lecture at the weirdest times

could be a southern mom thing but that's how mine is. Like let's talk about abortion right now in the middle of driving to HEB for gas.

>>8204900
Older black people are weird about ANYTHING LGBT. I imagine to them Im just another gay dude.
Thats one of the things that Im afraid of when I tell them, them just writing me off as a super gay dude and getting shit like "why did you do this if you where only going to date women? No woman would want a dude in a dress!" My stepdad especially is good at saying really shitty things to people under the guise of "being real" or "being old fashioned".
His views on lesbians are especially troubling.

>I seriously doubt most parents with mtf daughters care that she's into other girls. If anything, I expect it would be a relief.

Every guy I asked about this in my home town said they would rather their daughter be a lesbian than straight (trans or cis....when they actually knew what that was).

>>8204902
Right? It's like I was trying to combine every romantic movie plot in my head and then just follow that. But ya'll are kind of missing the point. I did feel love for these people. I come to love people very easily and I can be sexual with most people I'm that close too. I have a lot of feelings. I still get a bit anxious feeling, romantic anxious, when my ex and I are talking. Saw him for the first time yesterday since we broke up. Thought I was about to keel over and die, fumbled that ball hard.

I'm lucky enough to be into running already. Also, naturally petite. Lumbar and a knee injury put me down and out but I was running 10km every day for a while.

>>8204905
sweet baby jesus, I am dying
It kinda was, since she pulled me away from doing yard work with my dad to do this. It's a very typical thing, to go shopping at Walmart with your mom.
That is hilarious.
>>8204923
It is! It's like something is gnawing at them all day until they can't take it and they just gotta word vomit their conservative opinions to validate them or something?

>>8204965
I feel you, people underestimate how conservative black families are in regards to gender and role-playing. Operating outside of that in more that one aspect is downright objectionable to them.

>>8204880
>There was definitely sexual tension with the professor types but we never had sex with one another.
That's interesting. How did you feel about that? Would you be happy in a relationship with a guy with sexual tension and maybe kissing, but no sex?

>>8204902
>I remember cause in high school one of the guys I dated longest was an actual gay dude, told me so half way through, and we kinda just kept dating past prom just to both not have to stress over anyone wondering who we were dating in senior year.
What was the relationship like, pure pretense or just friendship or...?

>some of the guys really did care for me, a couple said love, but I just couldn't return it or see them that way and just wanted a guy to call my boyfriend
Could you see them as friends and return their love and care that way, if not romantically?

>>8205014
>Operating outside of that in more that one aspect is downright objectionable to them.

Yeah, its why I dont talk to them as much. It fucking kills me inside that I cant say it too them (especially my mom since Ive been close to here most of my life). I know theyll find out eventually but I want to push that down the road as far as possible.

>>8204614
So what if you met a girl that has that intellectual spark that you like in guys?
Would you be a puddle on the floor?
Unfortunately the only woman I know thats a professor and likes girls also happens to be married already.

>>8204142
I guess I probably was a late bloomer. I was just kind of weird and asexual when I was younger. I didn't really do anything back in HS and whatnot, I basically just hid out playing video games.
I always had some knowledge that I might be gay I just had no idea about how I'd go about actually pursuing it and somehow I was too retarded to figure it out. Plus I kind of always thought I might be trans and I'm still not sure if I'm just confusing gay stuff with trans stuff lol
One day a guy just approached for me sex though and it was really good. I still haven't actually technically stuck my penis in anyone though which I guess irritates my friends for some reason cause they didn't want me to the bottom bitch or something...

I have a similar story to you, my family is pretty conservative, they're mostly catholic, and we're a really close family and we see our extended family very often. Like coming out as gay to my entire family would probably be a complete clusterfuck.

>>8205087
Oh my god. Is this a pattern with southerners?

>they're mostly catholic

I thought I had it bad. My family's southern baptists. Thank god I dodged that bullet.

>>8205112
Well no one in my family is adamantly anti-lgbt, it's really just passive aggressive stuff.
My mom knows I'm gay and just thinks I'm a complete weirdo I guess, but she doesn't hate me or anything. I don't know how to tell the rest of my family. I feel like if I start telling more people then all of my extended family is going to get in on it and I'll basically just spend the next 5 years repeatedly coming out to family members as gossip spreads. Plus I'm sure there's going to be some upset people. They already pseudo-hate me because I've never had a gf, they just think I'm some weird autist right now though.

>>8205080
The thought of such a lady does, but rarely do I meet women who don't dumb themselves down or speak down on themselves. Rarely are those ones gay as well. It's slim pickins.
>married already
That or too young..


This whole thing has been very exhausting.
I'm really feeling down on myself. Is this normal?
Shouldn't I be happy that I'm coming into my own?

>>8204142
I didn't come out of the closet until I was 25, 3 years ago. I feel you, dude, I don't know where to meet dudes outside of university and I feel like an old creepy guy even entertaining such thoughts.

>>8204738
So many straight men are clit-dyslexic. Sad!

>>8205149
God, the gossip. I cannot even entertain the thought, it would be brutalizing. Not being married yet as a 24 year old woman isn't quite damning (yet) but I'm on the fast track to disappointing my parents if I don't lock down soon. Thank the lord my sister had a baby; they can't badger me from grandchildren now.

>>8205175
Yes, but not necessarily. Sometimes you also have to shack off the mindset of where you come from.
I thought I was going to be stuck in my hometown for the rest of my life, miserable and bitter that I never did anything.
I eventually moved across the country but Im still trying to shake off the idea that Im destined to never do anything (or that Im not capable of doing anything) or be with anyone. That kind of shit weighs heavy on you. Just get out there and do Stuff. I know its cliche but doing things will take your mind off of your situation and you'll look up one day and you'll be in a bed full of smoking hot professor ladies discussing their dissertations.

>>8205232
>bed full of smoking hot professor ladies discussing their dissertations.bed full of smoking hot professor ladies discussing their dissertations

Well. I definitely have a type, that is a sure thing.

>>8205215
Well I'm 26 now so it's pretty shitty for me lol
I'm honestly contemplating just kind of cutting contact with most of my family. I don't really want to be forced to visit people that hate me for the rest of my life. I think most of my family thinks I'm like a serial killer or something due to no gf. I sometimes wonder what they actually gossip about me haha

>>8205239
It's always under the guise of "I'm concerned". Bullshit, Eileen, you are just poking into where you don't need to be and causing a ruckus over zip-nada.

>>8205048
>What was the relationship like, pure pretense or just friendship or...?
In the beginning we were pure friends and been friends for years but all our friends kept saying "OH what a couple" and literally last bf broke up thinking I was putting out for friend but not him. So a time we went to a carnival as pure friends ended up calling it a date since that's what every friend called and by the time we went back to school on monday everyone thought we were dating and we both just went with it.

It was kinda comfy cause he legit never pressured me to fuck and I loved it. Like he'd just do the assumed boyfriend shit like sit near me and walk together and lean on each other but wouldn't make out. I'd kiss him on the cheek cause it felt like I was supposed to do that but besides that nothing and I was so fucking happy with that. I'd bring him baked goods and he'd buy me the standard boyfriend gifts. After he told me he might be gay I told him it was cool, I never expected anything from him and was fine being friends so it didn't matter. Then he felt kinda bad saying I deserved a real boyfriend, I said I was cool just focusing on school/getting into college and that I liked the lack of pressure to date since anyone I'd date I'd brake up with by summer anyway so we just agreed to fake it till college.

I remember after he came out on facebook years later girls were coming to me all "OMG your ex is GAY! WHO WOULDA GUESSED!?"

>Could you see them as friends and return their love and care that way, if not romantically?
I saw a few as friends and wanted to return their love but it always just felt weird. I'd like them as friends and then we'd date and slowly they'd just drive me insane and I'd never wanna be around them and it'd make me nauseous just thinking about having to see them at lunch and hold hands and have to kiss. I'd try to never be alone with them. Slowly stop responding to texts or being as active until they basically had to brake up with me.

>>8205246
My mom kind of had a pseudo-freakout cause she found one of my dildos and thought I was like destroying my body. She eventually calmed down though lol

>>8205284
>I'd kiss him on the cheek cause it felt like I was supposed to do that but besides that nothing and I was so fucking happy with that. I'd bring him baked goods and he'd buy me the standard boyfriend gifts.
That sounds nice. Was kissing on the cheek unpleasant? Would holding hands have been?

>girls were coming to me all "OMG your ex is GAY! WHO WOULDA GUESSED!?"
kek!

>>8205284
>>8205048
OH god and on the gay bf once he came out to me he got weirdly more pervy. Like he'd slap my butt in public and say "yeah her tits are perfect" and kinda brag about sleeping with me in that way dudes do without being super explicit. I was fine with it since I'd told him it was fine if we needed to ham it up in public, especially since I'd been telling my other girl friends that I was fucking him just so I could stop hearing about muhvirginity and I'd just watched some porn so I could make out like I knew. Plus from basic masturbating I actually knew what an orgasm felt like and I got the feeling a lot of these prude anal-only-no-piv-cause-jesus-said-so-plus-no-touching-my-clit-that's-satans-doorbell girls didn't know that feeling.

Man some ex bfs were pissed. It was so hard to not laugh sometimes and ruin it.

He was telling me he might be bi at the time but he'd slept with a girl and didn't think so. He asked if I'd sleep with him and I said nah and he was cool with it, never bugged again like other guys. 9/10 would fake a relationship with again.

>>8205303
Nah I loved kissing on the cheek over any other form of affection. Done in a second, minimum contact. Holding hands with guys was always uncomfortable especially cause guys always fucking wanted to do it and I'm left handed so it'd fuck up other shit I'd be wanting to do with my hands. I honestly just don't care for holding hands while walking even with girlfriends. Like touching hands just casual like while chilling with a girl but otherwise I got shit to do with my hands. Kissing on the mouth was always the worst with guys. Even supposed guys that were good at kissing. I can't explain it but it just bothered me to be that close to a guy with my face. And then they're just too aggressive. IDK gay life I guess.

>>8205361
>Man some ex bfs were pissed.
kek

>once he came out to me he got weirdly more pervy. Like he'd slap my butt in public and say "yeah her tits are perfect" and kinda brag about sleeping with me in that way dudes do without being super explicit.
I really like the sound of him.

>>8205285
>she found one of my dildos and thought I was like destroying my body

What do you have two large Chances taped together?

>>8206598
It was a pyrex glass dildo that was dick shaped. It wasn't big, just 5.5" and normal girth I assume
But as I've dated other gay dudes I would give anything to meet a dragon dildo fetishist, because they're at least normal compared to the guys I've met.