>tfw in this country you can't change your gender in

>>8177096
Don't know, but I feel like hormones are fine to require, it's just requiring surgery that irks me.

>>8177096
Imagine what it's like for FTMs

Brazil.

>>8177096
Poland.

>>8177096
Canada.

>>8177521
Doesn't the court in Poland require you to be on HRT for some time to change legal stuff? I'm pretty fucking sure it does.

>>8177101
>I feel like hormones are fine to require
Why? That's meanspirited.

>>8177498
Even Brazil is kess shitty than the p!ace I live in

>>8177521
No

>>8177561
>Canada
No

>>8177096
France.

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>>8177576
It isn't meanspirited.
You need to have a boundary, otherwise people could just wake up one day on a whim and change their gender.
where is the law and order in that?
we only want people who have actually thought things through and lived with their decision for a while to be able to change things like paperwork.
also, if papered gender is not related to physical reality then it is meaningless.
why even distinguish gender in a database if it doesn't mean anything?
the whole purpose of keeping track of gender is so that we know who has a penis and who has a vagina so that in war time it is harder to get false papers.
this is the same reason we ask for height and eye color, so we can determine if the papers match the person.
if people can say they have blue eyes when in fact they have brown eyes, then the entire purpose of identification papers is blown.
but maybe that's what you crazy communists want?
the terrorists have already won in that case.

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>>8177096
>tfw in this country you can't change your fingerprints in your papers without changing your fingerprints

really makes you think

>>8177096
there needs to be a line somewhere. in Florida you need any surgery, so my mastectomy will count. I think a letter from your doctor stating that you've transitioned is fine. requiring SRS is too drastic because a lot of people can't afford it and don't have insurance, and some have a low level of bottom dysphoria and can cope without it.

>>8177657
>the whole purpose of keeping track of gender is so that we know who has a penis and who has a vagina so that in war time it is harder to get false papers.
In that case why should males get an out just for being trans?

I assume you don't care if FTMs take hormones or not then.

>>8177685
>there needs to be a line somewhere.
Why?

>in Florida you need any surgery, so my mastectomy will count.
Handy for FTMs.

>requiring SRS is too drastic because <I'm FTM>

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>wants to change sex on paper
>doesn't actually want to change your sex irl
This is your problem.

>>8177744
If you're replying to a post quote it and address its points directly.

>>8177791
You don't need to quote OP, newfriend.

>>8177744
I'd just feel more comfortable using female clothes cause often get misgendered. Also, need no hormones to pass.

>>8177966
If it's just clothes, why do you need opposite gender id? Nothing stopping you from cross-dressing.

>>8177966
>Also, need no hormones to pass.
You won't pass in ten years, you need HRT to age like a woman.
Also, hormones will do more than make you pass, having them in your system gives you a lot of different emotional reactions, personally I lost my depression, so there's certainly alternative gains.

>>8177966
>need no hormones to pass
Explain yourself?!

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>>8177980
What about job? Nobody would hire a man wearing female clothes here

>>8177982
Naturally androgynous, look similar to this

>>8177981
Don't want to lose my erection and dertility, lol.

>>8177980
Why shouldn't she be entitled to an F on her ID?

>>8178062
Because "she" hasn't actually made any medical transition and there should be a barrier to keep people from just doing it on a whim. A legal gender change should be backed up by more than "I feel like a girl, so I am one".

>>8178055
lol
try harder

>>8178055
Sounds like AGP hon stuff

>>8178072
Hon is deciding ITT who is entitled to call themselves "she" and who is not, lel.

>>8178055
>What about job? Nobody would hire a man wearing female clothes here
Age old trick of punks, goths, emos, metalheads, fucking 50s rockers, mods and shit has always been to just dress like a normal person when they employ you and then ease back into your preferred style. They've already employed you by then, you've got them by the balls.

>>8178055
>Don't want to lose my erection and dertility, lol.
Sperm bank before you start, erections aren't sure to go completely. It's just the spontaneous ones that definitely do. Some become completely impotent, but most can still get hard if they want to.

>>8178062
>entitled

found the reason

>>8178092
>AGP
No, I don't like bottoming for "daddies" or any other men and have never done it.

>hon
Unlke hons, I'm actually passable

>>8177096
Every Western country where a real Transexuellgesetz has been implemented. Implying:
> Transsexuality is legal, and is a medical condition
Rules out every county where being gay is illegal except Iran.
> Names are not gendered by law
> Transsexuellgesetz is as old as gay liberation movements, so it states hrt as requirement.

>>8178099
>>8178072
>and there should be a barrier
WHY

>A legal gender change should be backed up
WHY

>>8178109
If you're lesbian you're probably AGP.

>>8178109
Doubt it, it's probably false confidence and you'd post if you could. I fully support the HRT requirement for MAB. It's an absolute minimum. Maybe you could also require something like FFS or some other surgical thing like orchi but that could hurt other poor people and help wealthy older hons.

At any rate HRT is very reasonable

>>8178094
I'm not even trans but you keep trying, sweetheart. I just think the whole "I'm trans because I say so" is fucking ridiculous and if things keep going the way they're going it won't be long before you can get sued or jailed for not using psychic powers to magically figure out people's pronouns.

>>8178098
You know, I just want to visit toilets without embarassing myself and other people. I'm tired of hearing "Is this WC male or female!?" Using emo/punk/goth style would make me even more androgynous.
So changing my gender on paper us exactly what I need.

>>8178155
>lesbian
I'm bisexual.

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>>8178212
>I just want to visit toilets

If you pass then you don't need ID to visit toilets
If you don't pass then don't go in the womens toilet or use a single person locking bathroom or go home and use the toilet there.

>>8178212
>I'm bisexual.
That's AGP too.

You like topping men then? Same for women?

What do you enjoy about being femme?

>>8178212
>Using emo/punk/goth style would make me even more androgynous.
You were literally never told to do that.

>>8178160
> FFS as a requirement to gender marker altering
What about young transitioners who don't need/can't afford FFS?

> Orchi as a requirement for gender marker altering
Yep, and hysto for FtMs. That would mean a permanent commitment to your new gender.

> Backed up by more than "I think I'm a girl"
In Hungary, there's no Transsexuellgesetz. If there was one, chances are Transsexuality would be outlawed (absolutely no means to change gender marker or name, maybe imprisonment or fine like in the USSR). In stead they require 2 letters from 2 different psychiatrists, and one from an ob/gyn or urologist (meaning once you submit the request, there's no way back). Also, the request is automatically refused the first time, meaning you have 3 months to make a go/no go decision after making the request.

I think it'd be great if it'd made law as is, since:
> No RLE
> No HRT, or surgery requirement to satisfy tumblr
> Requires person to make a permanent commitment to their new gender
> Alters birth certificate with no record of alteration, so on paper you're clear
> Central Health Authority will create a letter of referral for orchi and later SRS

It's only drawback is:
> Insurance will not cover endocrinologist until you have your orchi/hysto. Most endos will not prescribe moans until you have an orchi/hysto.
That means you will have to get mones from black market sources until you have your orchiectomy done. If you want it 100% legally, it'd mean you would have to present female before HRT in an intolerant backwards country.

>>8178221
I can't go to female toilets using male clothes. Even if I pass, it's embarassing to go to female WC when you aren't legally a woman.

>>8178236
>You like topping men then? Same for women?
Yes

> What do you enjoy about being femme?
I don't enjoy it.

>>8177096
Italy?
If not its the same here in Italy anyway.

Can you really write something retarded like demi-honsexual or whatever as your gender, or do gender mean sex in these forms?

>>8177675

Why do you need to change your fingerprints?

>>8178262
> No RLE
Rle is ridiculous and WPATH already condemned it. Only eurotrash countries are dumb enough to embrace it.

Anyways, rle only helps clueless hons and AGP that get off to doing stuff like that, not people with dysphoria. So it just filters in favor of not good people

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>>8178270
>it's embarassing

oh, grow up.
what are you 12?

>>8178295
acid
or hedge clippers

actually, i've heard you can use gummy bears

>>8178270
>I don't enjoy it.
Wait so why do you present as a girl?

>>8178568
He doesn't.
He wears male clothes.

>>8178649
She's not even trans? She's just a natal male who doesn't pass as a guy?

>>8178660
yes.
and he wants his papers changed to say female so he will "feel comfortable" when dressed as a man in the women's restroom.

so probably just a /pol/tard trolling.

>>8177693
bc FTM surgeries are fucking gross at their current state. MTF SRS can be very nice, but most FTM SRS looks like a hotdog stapled to your crotch

>>8178671
>so probably just a /pol/tard trolling.
It would be nice if she was real.

>>8178687
>my personal judgement about how surgery I want you to have trumps your gender identity
Nice double standard.

>>8178706
>she

>>8178568
>not realising this is a troll thread

>>8178687
yeah, the yeast hole is definitely preferable

>>8178568
>Wait so why do you present as a girl?
It's one of the sides of my personality? I'm bigender. I don't want to amputate my cock or drink hormones , but with my effeminate features it would be much easier to be officially a woman.

>>8178832
Why do you keep saying drink hormones? It's pills, patches, or injections, there's no big titty energy drink.

>>8178718
I'd like to think of it as a cum sack that cleans itself with natural soap and some elbow grease

>>8178888
are you talking about your rectum?

>>8178907
I think the term they use is neo vagina as in you have to be in the matrix to believe this is a vagina

>>8177612
>Even Brazil is kess shitty than the p!ace I live in
Then somewhere else Latin American?

It's got to be that or Eastern Europe.

>>8178832
You're creepy, I'm glad the system works as it should and keeps you out.

>>8177657
My country allows that and it's been going pretty fine actually. We have a corrupt government and we're close to loosing our democracy, but it's the best place to be if you're transgender.

>>8179081
Brazil?

>>8178832
>but with my effeminate features it would be much easier to be officially a woman.
Why not present as a man when that would be a problem, like in public where you'd need documentation, and as a woman among friends?

I'm wondering how it could be easier to be officially female.

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>>8178856

>there's no big titty energy drink.
>tfw there really isn't

>>8179099
No a tiny shitty european island in the middle of fuck all. It took me 15 mins and 70 euro to have my name and gender changed on all my legal documents. You can do this without any surgery or hormones and the paperwork isn't long but pretty extensive. You only have one shot to change it, second time around it's a shit ton of cash just to make sure not everyone is going to go through with it if they ain't sure. And it seems to work

>>8178349

I said why.

>>8179144
Iceland?

>>8179152
Around the same amount of people but no. Malta. Small, too hot 95% of the time, everyone is inbred and speaks a distorted form of Arabic I couldn't be bothered with, but the LGBT laws are pretty decent

>>8179059
rather nasty

that's what cis people say about you.

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>>8179059
>I'm glad that other people are oppressed
Kys

>>8177096
Texas

>>8179180
>>8179187
It's a man in a dress who loves being a man and going into women's rooms and making them all uncomfortable. If you make this aceptable you prove the conservatives right when they claim everyone Trans is an evil rapist.

>>8177096
Norway.

I don't know how it'll work... I hope to change my gender in sweden, and then move to norway.
However, my norweigan citizenship has male on it, and so I guess it won't matter that I changed it in sweden...

>>8179193
how is she any different to you?

>>8177096
a good ass place that stops fetishists and non binary queermos in their tracks

lmao my ass off you guys

>>8179231
Other people at least take AA, and hide from the public if they aren't 100% at passing

>>8179260
she is passing, no need for aas.

>>8179300
They never gave proof, lots of creepy people can be deluded. They probably don't if you aren't being ultra lenient.

>>8179331
ok lets ignore the assumptions and say this is hypothetical. why shouldn't someone in that situation who passes get to be legally female?

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>>8177096
>drinking hormones
>implying you can get near them in minus 2 years

>>8177561
Canada is totally fine. You can get them changed without either, and they were at one point (don't know if they still are) trying to get gender labels completely removed from Canadian IDs

>>8178687
old phallo results looked pretty bad, but the new techniques are great. you've probably seen results that are still in the first stage and aren't fully healed.

>>8179189
Texas ain't an independent country no more. At least not since 1845, son.

>>8177096
Uhhh... some country in eastern Europe?

>>8177096
Kys cunt

>>8179171
How can I move to Malta and obtain citizenship?

>>8177693
>>8178687
Female (to male) privilege.

>>8178164
the backhand will come far sooner than that and it wont be the Sjws and alphabet soup trans people delivering it. this attitude of theirs is going to let the alt right win.

That said, if we're talking gender reform, the two categories are kind of limited in keeping up with biology's leftovers, so I propose gender be expressed in female, male, both, neither.

>>8187571
>alphabet soup trans people
???

>>8183082
weird, op specifically described what you need to get your birth certificate changed in Texas

>>8190481
Surgery is required in several countries and several states. Adding HRT as an extra demand probably isn't unusual.

>>8195397
Florida is another.