Why

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>>8167536
Because you're AGP

coz you're really a dog?

>>8167544
Well yes but to be fair cis girls can like that too.

>>8167544
I think the real question is what the fuck is up with this picture. Why does she have a lab in her bedroom? What's that brown rectangular prism thing in the lab area? What do I have to do to get a life of cleaning and caring for spiders where all my needs and desires are taken care of so long as I am good and do my chores?

>>8167536

What makes two women want to make a bunch of small children fight each other? "Maternal instinct" my ass.

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>>8167757
Some people are just retarded, I guess.

>>8167544
i came out at 12, nice try

being called a good girl is my favorite thing ever
help

>>8167593
>implying all cis girls aren't also AGP

>>8167793
All trans men are AAP, too. And all cis men.

>>8167735
>What do I have to do to get a life of cleaning and caring for spiders where all my needs and desires are taken care of so long as I am good and do my chores?
Easy! Two simple steps! 1) be female 2) be cis.

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>>8167789
You can be an AGP early transitioner.
Pic related.

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>>8167789

Why come here then?

>>8167790
I'd take it as an insult. I'm a bad girl through and through.

>>8167789

I'm aware of an AGP that got blockers at 11. If you believe the "I want to be a girl = AGP, I am a girl = HSTS" meme, there's also a documentary with like a 6 year old AGP. Transition age means nothing.

>>8167825
>6 year old AGP
Children don't have fetishes, though? Teenagers and maybe "tweens" (ugh), but not children.

>>8167825
>I'm aware of an AGP that got blockers at 11.
How do you know she's an AGP?

>"I want to be a girl = AGP, I am a girl = HSTS"
What's the documentary and what's the real evidence she's AGP besides the meme?

>>8167846
They probably mean that the 6-year-old was already showing signs of being gynephilic.

>>8167846
Almost as if... AGP isn't a fetish!

But that's clearly preposterous. The only people who believe that are every expert on AGP ever! What do they know?

>>8167846

Speaking as an AGP, my first AGP moment was at 11. I still wanted to be a girl before then. Apparently my dad even caught me praying to be a girl when I was 5.

>>8167852

>How do you know she's an AGP?

Her father's a late transitioner who came out after she did. AGP is heritable, therefore, she's AGP.

>What's the documentary and what's the real evidence she's AGP besides the meme?

The same documentary the BBC wanted to air that painted a bad picture about childhood transition with Ken Zucker and Blanchard, so the trans community tried to get it blocked. I actually posted a thread with a link to it a while ago and I downloaded the torrent on its page. The domain was archive.org I don't personally believe the connection is that strong between I am/want to be a girl and being HSTS/AGP, but some shitposters believe it. I can entertain the idea and could see it being true though. It does need more evidence before I fully believe it.

>>8167873
But to say that AGP isn't a fetish, it's a sexuality, is also problematic. Because it implies that trans women can't have normal non-AGP attraction for any women in their lives, and by extension, that they can't have healthy relationships with those women.

>>8167881
>Her father's a late transitioner who came out after she did. AGP is heritable, therefore, she's AGP.

This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Is that even proven? Why couldn't an AGP father have produced an HSTS child? How do you know the father was AGP just because he transitioned late?

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>>8167789
let us see

>>8167902
You can come out at 12 and start hormones later, just look at what happened to me.

>>8167881
>my first AGP moment was at 11.
What was it?

>AGP is heritable, therefore, she's AGP.
That's a hypothesis and even if it is true doesn't recluse her being HSTS maternally, recessively HSTS through her father, or potentially other possibilities.

As someone who can't sit on this Italian grape appreciation forum all day, can someone tell me what the FUCK AGP stands for

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>>8167908
so why didn't you want to transition then ?

>>8167911
a gay penis

>>8167909
doesn't preclude*

>>8167932
*a girl penis

>>8167793
>>8167803
>muh Moser

>>8167884
>is also problematic. Because it implies
Reality isn't subject to political correctness.

>trans women can't have normal non-AGP attraction for any women in their lives,
It doesn't if you understand that orientations aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

>and by extension, that they can't have healthy relationships with those women.
How do you conclude that?

>>8167894

>Is that even proven?

That AGP or that being trans in general is heritable?

>Why couldn't an AGP father have produced an HSTS child?

Well, if you believe the AGP/HSTS separation in the first place, they have different causes. So if there are genetic factors involved, and there do appear to be, an AGP begets AGP and an HSTS would beget an HSTS if they would only impregnate a woman.

>How do you know the father was AGP just because he transitioned late?

>was and continues to be married to a woman
>HSTS

Pick one. Even if the father was repressing exclusive interest in men and gender dysphoria to reluctantly fuck the mother all of those years, there is no way they would continue that relationship after the transition started.

>>8167909

>What was it?

I got aroused imagining myself as a girl in a bikini when I saw this music video on MTV (or maybe it was SpikeTV? I don't know). https://youtu.be/dW2MmuA1nI4?t=1m57s

>That's a hypothesis

Then why are relatives of trannies more likely to be trannies? It can't be nurture because different generations have different environments.

>doesn't recluse her being HSTS maternally, recessively HSTS through her father, or potentially other possibilities.

It doesn't, but it's the likeliest conclusion. What are the chances that HSTS and AGP lines collide to explain an 11 year old coming out, either in the father's line or in the union of the father and the mother, when the 11 year old being AGP through her father is already enough to explain it? On closer examination the possibility would certainly have to be eliminated, but the case is practically pre-solved.

>>8167544
I-is liking spiders the new agp meme?
I like spiders and being called a good girl but I don't think I'm agp...

>>8167816
Whatever dumbass.

>>8168195
What is HSTS?

>>8168398

Homosexual transsexual. A person so innately gay and effeminate/butch they transition to the other sex in order to not get flak from society for it. They are never attracted to the sex they transition to. Transitioned prior to reaching age 25 back when it was harder, now transition ages have dropped for HSTS and AGP where you can't really tell on transition age alone anymore.

>>8168195
>Then why are relatives of trannies more likely to be trannies? It can't be nurture because different generations have different environments.
Some environmental/nurture factors are shared down generations, which would explain a family correlation for being trans even if those factors aren't guaranteed to be the same.

>What are the chances that HSTS and AGP lines collide to explain an 11 year old coming out,
Out of all the trannies who exist? Including repressed ones who in less understanding families would never be known to be trans? Above zero.

>when the 11 year old being AGP through her father is already enough to explain it?
It can't explain it until the mechanism by which AGP is hereditary is understood. Until then it's statistics, not an explanation.

>>8168483
Self driving flying cars made out of ultra-light metamaterials and cushioning.

>>8167825
>"I want to be a girl"
socially aware HSTS who understands the difference between her self image and the way she's perceived
>"I am a girl"
delusional AGP already insisting on an assumed "female identity" in opposition to tangible reality

it's really easy to do this

>>8169734
i thought it was the other way around?

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>>8169869
it is, all the well known HSTS early transitioners have the same origin stories of telling their parents at an early age that they "are a girl".

>>8169994
Delusional.

I thought boys and especially autistic boys were support to be less socially aware?

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>>8170007
name 1 early trans hsts that said that they "want to be a girl"

>>8170026
Not you. Them, the HSTSers, like >>8169734 said but the wrong way around.

>>8169994
>all the well known HSTS say they 'are a girl'
>only people who say they 'are a girl' are HSTS
blanchard.jpg

>>8169734
yeah it's just silly to 'diagnose' children with little wordplay memes like this. As if every child can be expected to phrase this idea in the same, 'correct,' way. As if it matters if you're like 6 and your family is accepting anyway

>>8170099
What happens if you're four and your family is not accepting?

>>8167846
But children can have fetishes. I had fetishes when I was eight

>>8167544
>Animal Man

That's a great comic.

>>8167536
>be me
>work as blackjack dealer
>some guy has 14, hits
>gets 21
>calls me a good girl
>pretend to be mad at him for being a sexist pig
>really get all warm inside and smiling internally

>>8172966

>then he took me back to his room
>and filled my boypussy with his cum

>>8170748
You start learning how to beat people much larger than yourself at a very early age the way I did.

>>8167536
Depends if you're a bitch or not

>>8167825
>>8167846
>>8167852
I get turned on by AGP-style fantasies and want to be a woman. Used to think I was just a weird pervert. Eventually got hit by dysphoria. I've had (non-sexual) fantasies about boys becoming girls since I was 4. I never understood why I liked them when I was a kid.

Writing this made me remember an anecdote from when I was 5 or 6. I often made up stories with my grandmother. We'd talk about what would happen and how. I once made up a story about a cat who fell into a can of pink paint so everyone thought he was a girl. The idea was somehow intensely interesting to me and I kept trying to keep the conversation centered on it. Eventually my grandmother caught on, was weirded out by it and changed the subject. The pattern stuck though.

When I played pretend with my friends at school people being turned into girls, either accidentally or against their will, was something I kept shoving into our games. Oddly enough no one ever commented.

So yeah, I don't know how AGP connects to my desire to transition but I had forced fem fantasies before I was sexually aware. I don't think my identity stems from sexual desire.

>>8173006
I cried a lot

>>8167757

Women do a lot of strange things with children. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Newmaker#Attachment_therapy

>>8167806

That picture is hilarious every time. It's just so silly! Yet so inexplicably cocky.

>>8173059
>Used to think I was just a weird pervert.
The trans community lied to you.

>>8173059
>The pattern stuck though.
more examples?

>>8167536
AGP lol. my endo calls me a good girl and i snarkily ask him if i'm a pet dog and he always looks confused and says no i'm a good girl because hes african and doesn't get 2nd language bitchiness

>>8179937
I kept making up stories where boys were turned to girls. When I played pretend with my friends we had this recurring fantasy setting where an army of invading alien lizards (lol) trapped resistance fighters in talismans and transformed them, often into girls. That was around the age of 7-8. A lot of stuff like that. At the time I clearly thought of myself as a boy and that being transformed is a horrible fate. I was obsessed with it though.

>>8167536
Who's a Good Girl?
You Are!
Yes, You ARE!!!!

>>8176296
I got hit by a serious case of The Feels at some point. Did a lot of research. Figured stuff out. Kind of adds up with me suddenly and for no clear reason becoming depressed and angry from puberty onward.

>>8180003
more!

very strange that you thought it was horrible but still were obsessed with it, and then being trans.

>>8180096
>more!
They are all just so banal haha. I don't know why you find them interesting. I don't remember how old I was when this happened. Around 11. I played a sort of free form roleplaying game with a male friend of mine. It was mostly your standard D&Dish tripe. I don't remember the context but at some point I created a scenario where his character had to pass for a woman in order to infiltrate a fortress. He basically got a temporary alchemical SRS/HRT treatment from a witch, with a whole surgery vibe going on. I'm surprised he wasn't creeped out or cried foul. I still cringe when I think of this one.

>very strange that you thought it was horrible but still were obsessed with it, and then being trans.
I can't really explain it. I think that maybe I was trying to find an acceptable way to act out scenarios where I became a girl? I knew boys weren't supposed to want to be girls but in retrospect was clearly repeatedly drawn to pretending to be one or thinking about any boy becoming one.

By 12-13 I crossdressed for the first time and the whole thing took a sexual tone.

>>8180220
if you were trying to find an acceptable way why would you think it was horrible? i wish i'd had things like those but it just started with the crossdressing instead. what was your first crossdressing?

>>8180275
>if you were trying to find an acceptable way why would you think it was horrible?
Well, that's what I consciously remember thinking. People have layers though, and children aren't very smart. I felt the pull emotionally.

>what was your first crossdressing?
Uh.. this one is kind of gross but okay.

I was 12-13. Something drove me to try on my mother's frilly underwear when she wasn't home. I quickly got a boner. At some point for some reason I wrapped another pair around my genitalia and pulled back hard, looking at my smooth crotch. I just lied there for a while, confused beyond belief. I eventually masturbated. As far as I can remember that was the first time I did so. From then on I regularly cross-dressed and masturbated until the age of 16 or so. I spent half of my 15th birthday playing video games while wearing my sister's nightie. I thought of myself as a straight guy with a fetish for forced feminization and that wanting to be turned into a girl is 100% straight because it's forced ergo I don't -actually- want to and beside I'm only into it if women are the ones turning me NOT men.

I got really depressed and angry around puberty and it just got worse with time. I never made the connection until a few years ago, when the dysphoria got so bad I couldn't ignore it. I only even thought that I might be trans at 20 and by then it was too late. Now I haunt these cursed halls, sharing my tale with eggs so that they don't repeat my mistakes.

>>8180393
i always thought forced feminization had some deeper meaning but maybe it is simply for the sake of not consciously admitting the desire to be female.

why did you finally make the connection and think you might be trans? what was the dysphoria like?

thank you for sharing your tale. lots of us start the same way.

>>8180502
>i always thought forced feminization had some deeper meaning but maybe it is simply for the sake of not consciously admitting the desire to be female.
That's what I've come to believe, but I'm not sure.

>why did you finally make the connection and think you might be trans?
I've had these depressive episodes where I'd just focus on and wallow in my own misery for extended periods of time, followed by periods of relative calm. Had them since puberty. They grew up with me, year by year, longer and more intense. Slowly, almost without me noticing and to the point where I can't pinpoint when it started, a yearning to be a woman found its way into those self-pity sessions. It grew more and more prominent over time until one day I caught myself become intensely sad at the thought that I wasn't a woman and that I couldn't be one. That I clearly, consciously but reflexively thought this was kind of a shock to me, as I had worked very hard to convince myself that this whole thing was just a fetish and that my occasional teenage fantasies about becoming a girl for real were just sexual. These episodes only grew more common and intense since, with this aspect dominating them.

I've hated my body for a very long time now. Since I was 15, maybe? but I always thought it was because I was ugly and had bad skin. Self reflection made me realize that I wouldn't be much happier with any other male body. I just feel.. awkward in it, but I don't think I've always felt this awkward. I think that at some point I hated it but was still fairly comfortable with myself physically.

So, what is the dysphoria like? I'm kind of struggling to tell you. I thought this wasn't it for basically forever and have only recently come to recognize the obsessive yearning, heartache and awkwardness as fitting the description. I'm prone to being sad and angry and just find Being difficult but I can't tell whether those things are related to my gender or not. Not the typical trans narrative I know.

>>8180680
most mtfs seem to be submissive. so forced fem might be a combination of that and not admitting the desire. why does it stay when we do consciously admit it though?

>I thought this wasn't it for basically forever and have only recently come to recognize the obsessive yearning, heartache and awkwardness as fitting the description.
why did it take you so long to recognize it as that? i might have seen a post by you in another thread.

>>8180502
Ran out of space. I also viscerally dislike my facial hair. I dislike some of my body hair, but to a lesser degree.

>thank you for sharing your tale
Thanks for listening.

>>8180782
>most mtfs seem to be submissive. so forced fem might be a combination of that and not admitting the desire. why does it stay when we do consciously admit it though?
I don't know about people like me, but some happy transitioned MTFs told me they aren't really into it anymore. Ingrained behavior? Learned coping mechanisms?

>why did it take you so long to recognize it as that?
I don't know. Maybe I was thick. I just didn't know much about transness or that people who got turned on by stuff like this could ever be trans. I thought the two were mutually exclusive.

>i might have seen a post by you in another thread.
Could be. I posted one variation or another of this story on /lgbt/ a few times.

>>8180932
would you like to email?

>>8167536
What about being called a bad girl?

>>8167873
AGP is a fetish you dumb moron, it's trans that they are showing signs of.

>>8167924
not sure about that fag but I knew early and was just dumb and couldn't comprehend that it was a possibility until I was old enough to comprehend I was aging through puberty and everything was horrible and crossdressing, anime, vidya, and erp wasn't going to make it better

>>8184153
>trans
>AGP
>different

>>8167873
>An expert on made-up pseudoscience

>>8184313
Why do you people hate it so much that other people believe something you don't?

>>8184344
Beliefs have consequences when they're about facts. If someone believes in a (supposedly or actually) scientific theory and spreads their belief about it then that can impact policy and behavior. When an anti-vaxxer shares their opinion they do far more than just tell us about their favorite color. They're pushing for a certain course of action.

>>8184153
AGP is a fetish you dumb moron, it's trans that they are showing signs of.
Or both. They very commonly appear together, and often the AGP manifests first and then gender dysphoria develops (or maybe the AGP develops into gender dysphoria; it's not really clear). How common is the narrative of being into forced feminisation or similar things as a child, eventually having it become explicitly sexual, and then developing gender dysphoria and needing to transition?

Also, at least speaking from my own experiences children can still have fetishes even if they don't experience the sexuality of it in the same way that older people do. I remember feeling...*something* about my fetishistic fantasies, and the TV shows and such that portrayed the fetish. It's hard to describe but I was definitely fascinated with and attracted to them, and they seemed out of the ordinary enough that I had a vague feeling something was special about them. Later on I'd get "weird" feelings that I didn't recognise as sexual arousal at the time, even well before I had any concept of sexuality. Literally one of my first memories (at the age of 3 or 4) is of playing make-believe on my own with a fetishistic fantasy (though of course in the super tame way that you'd expect from a child), and the only dreams I remember before my teenage years were all either nightmares or about the fetish (sometimes with other fetishistic or sexual stuff mixed in).

>>8184872
I really want to hear about your dreams and games of make-believe.

>>8184406
What negative impact do you imagine this could have?

>>8184872

>Or both. They very commonly appear together
not in 6 years olds you fucking tool

Alright, I'm having trouble keeping up with my own community.

What the fuck is AGP? Agenderphobic? AGePlay? A Great Penis?

>>8189052
Look
just stay out of it
it is highly Inside Baseball and not worth bothering with

>>8189070
And risk being called a homophobe even though I'm gay?

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>>8189052
autogynephilia/-phile or something
somewhere along those lines
god, i'm not even trans and i've picked up retarded newspeak shit like this

>>8189052
Autogynophile. I'm pretty sure it's used to describe men who "want to become women" as opposed to "are a woman on the inside."

I don't understand why a distinction between the two is necessary, honestly. Both are uncomfortable in their own skin and both are viewed as trans by regular people. It just seems like a needless schism in an already marginalized population.

>>8167547
i'm not op jenn, good guess though

>>8191332
That's not what it is at all, though you're right that for practical purposes there's no distinction between wanting to be a woman and "being a woman on the inside", since in either case the outcome and required medical treatments are the same. From the OP of the AGP general:

>What is AGP?
Autogynephilia, from Greek αὐτό- ("self"), γυνή ("woman") and φιλία ("love"). Broadly, arousal to the thought of being a woman. It can take many forms - being aroused at imagining or seeing yourself with a female body, dressing in clothes that make you appear feminine, acting in stereotypical "feminine" ways, or others.

>Isn't AGP just discredited pseudoscience?
No, AGP is a real phenomenon. Some people disagree with Blanchard's Typology, which included AGP, but that people experience AGP is indisputable.

>I'm AGP, does this mean I'm not trans?
No, you can be AGP and trans.

>Does AGP mean you're not trans or repressed trans?
Many AGPs do have at least some dysphoria. Some people with AGP will go on to transition, while others are content with incorporating it into their sex life or simply the occasional indulgence. It varies greatly in intensity. If AGP consumes a lot of your mental energy or causes you lots of distress, it is probably worth asking more questions.

>>8194081
AGP are trash that to pretend to be trans and shit on actual trans >>8193889

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>>8167735
>What do I have to do to get a life of cleaning and caring for spiders where all my needs and desires are taken care of so long as I am good and do my chores?
>>8167805
>Easy! Two simple steps! 1) be female 2) be cis.

>>8194098
>pretend to be trans
AGP are trans.

>>8189070
>Inside Baseball
?