>used to think I was trans >turns out I'm only AGP

you will be back. you cant outrun the trans in you forever.

>>8164750
trans is a current fad

>>8164750
Excuse me miss but I'm a completely CIS male who happens to feel really good by roleplaying as a girl.

>>8164742
have fun with your repression
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=27029.0

>>8164768
Why do you assume all AGPs are repressed trans? Is it because we can be happy? #notallagps

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>>8164742
>tfw came sligtly to the same conclusion
>my boyfriend afterwards tells me this.
>''In all honesty you've got similar characteristics to a more reclusive woman like being Protective/Defensive attitude towards me, that you kind of desire my attention but no for vanity but because what it seems like is I validate your existance''
>''You could pass as a girl with longer more female growing hair''
>Is non binary femme still not trans?

>>8164794
Also
>You've definitely got a more female mind.
>And genetically you're female in a way, so that's why I sugguest transition

>>8164810
You're, really lucky anon. I feel fuzzy and hot when people say I'm girlish or refer to me as a girl too, you have such a good bf.

>>8164810
>And genetically you're female in a way
I died lol

>>8165174
OP here. No we are not, we are just fetishists dragged by the trans lobby, thank you. There's nothing trans about wild fantasies involving me being female full time.

Lol this board

>>8165456
All these trans threads remind me of grade school. I'm just sitting here being really happy I'm a faggot.

>>8165469
t. repressed HSTS

>>8165196
we get it, you're a good goy

>>8164837
Same lol

>>8165477
Blanchard can suck my dick (female)

>>8165530
>tfw PsBi for Blanchard
>tfw no Blanchard bf

>>8165549
>isn't hot enough
PsBis love guys for who they are not what they look like.
>probably isn't even single
Anne is already self-hating, would she really mind getting cuckd?

>>8165469
Ikr, my theory is people on 4chan were never socialized so they never grew up and have to look to an anonymous imageboard to bully others since they'd get beat the shit out of irl.
It's also quite embarassing how they use outdated pseudoscience to try to continuously label themselves tumblr-style rather than just doing what they want. So embarassing to be trans :( pls they don't represent the good ones

>>8165568
>were never socialized so they never grew up
Explains why we turned out trans so much more than the normal population.

>>8165477
You are probably the cringiest poster this board ever had.
And avatarfagging is against the rules you newfag.

>>8165586
>female (or is it male?) mind
Better than either!

>>8165602
Suck my girldick, he's great!

>>8165609
Stop samefagging, autist. You are so stupid.

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>Tfw trans but not an AGP or pre-tran fag
>Cant even make decent catergoration
>mfw

>>8165582
Or did we never socialize because we were trans and uncomfortable with gendered socialization?

>Be beautiful man
>Dress super andro
>Kinda half way in-between hating my penis and being indifferent to it
>Also dont want a vagina
>Just repress this for eternity

>>8165698

Also i guess I'm stupid too because I forgot you cant use andro in place of androgynous.

>>8164742
Hittade jag dig, småland?

What does it even mean to "be trans"? If you desire to be the opposite sex, does that make you trans?

>>8165773

He's good at ban evasion. I suppose people also stopped caring about reporting him.

>>8164742

>thinking being AGP means you're not trans

You will regret this, anon.

>>8164794

Does your boyfriend know you're AGP? Does he think you're trans or you just have a kink for crossdressing? Is he bi? How are you protective/defensive of him? Is it that you try to keep other women off of him or that you protect him from threats to his safety? Is "that you kind of desire my attention but no for vanity but because what it seems like is I validate your existance" about you being pseudo bi or what? What does he mean by that?

>>8164742
Thing about being AGP is, even if your technically trans it doesn't mean you have to transition.

>>8166953
Same for HSTS really.

>>8167175
True, it's just that AGPs tend to function as straight men better than HSTSs function as gay men. Which is why HSTS non transtioners are rare.

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>>8165773
cara had a pretty sophisticated ban evasion system set up for a while
anyway good luck cody, i've decided to pretty much quit so i guess you're the blanchardposting trans guy now

>tfw all of this is my fault

>>8170615
>i've decided to pretty much quit
why?!

>>tfw all of this is my fault
you've enlightened people.

>>8170622
i realized how much staying in the tranny bubble was fucking me up
i tend to go through phases of being stealth and being out, and whenever i do the last one for too long it consumes me and i get a lot worse dysphoria-wise
i realized that if i'm going to have the long-term stealth life i want i kinda need hobbies that have nothing to do with this shit
>you've enlightened people
i guess
mostly i just made reality into a bullshit meme

>>8170631
>was fucking me up
?

>i tend to go through phases of being stealth and being out,
how can you go stealth after being out? anyway having hobbies for irl stealth lyfe doesn't stop you from tranny bubble stuff online.

>mostly i just made reality into a bullshit meme
bullshitters gonna bullshit, with or without you.

>>8170687
>how can you go stealth after being out? anyway having hobbies for irl stealth lyfe doesn't stop you from tranny bubble stuff online.
most of my interaction is online so i just write under pseudonyms (or anonyms, as was the case for most of my time on this board) when i'm doing tranny stuff
i'm an autist and hyperfocus on shit so if i'm talking about the typology or the like it's the only thing i'm interested in until either i get bored or forcibly kick myself out of it, and the former didn't seem to be happening

>>8170694
you'd give up your hyperinterest...

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>>8170694

trent please don't go, /tttt needs you.

>>8165950
>If you desire to be the opposite sex, does that make you trans?
No, you also have to be unable to accept your current gender.

>>8170784
>unable to accept
define

>>8164742
This. I think all empathetic men are AGP on some level or another. Dodging the trans bullet is good though.
>No broken shrunken dicc
>No rejection from friends/family
>able to attract the opposite sex
>not assumed to be left wing (I am partially but also hate immigrants and muzzies)
>Able to still develop a muscular body and not some fat filled hormone fuelled twinkhonbod mess
Feels good
>>8164755
I don't even RP as a grill but I know this is common af. I always pick the grill in videogames now. Replayling Mass Effect trilogy as a renegade femshep. The amount of angry sex she would have with space aliens is unfathamoble.

>>8171143
>I don't even RP as a grill
t. AGPtrender

>>8171143
I mean, being AGP doesn't necessarily means not being trans.

>>8164742
Most transwomen were AGP before transitioning. You can be AGP and trans.

>>8171296
You make it sound like it's just something that happens to a random majority of trans women.

>>8171299
I don't want to get into Trent VS Anti-AGP Rando (dat me I was on an hiatus but I'm back) Debate #2946 but we don't have solid evidence pinpointing the exact connection between being AGP and being trans. All we know is that the two often show up together and that transitioning generally helps such people.

>>8165705
Andro alone means man. Gune means woman. Androgynous means manwomanish.

>>8171311
Why has he failed to convince you before?

>and that transitioning generally helps such people.
That's vague enough to be useless.

>>8171323
>Why has he failed to convince you before?
We've literally discussed this over a dozen of times over multiple threads. It'd take a thread to go over our disagreements.

>That's vague enough to be useless.
Data shows that transitioning is an effective treatment for adult transsexuals. There is no dispute over this between the Blanchardians and the modern medical community. Blanchard just believes that only adults should transition. He sees the treatment as palliative. WPATH sees it as corrective. What they endorse is not that different.

>>8171151
>gender only exists within my subjective understanding.
also
>trender
Kiwi farms please go
>>8171157
I know I'm CIS and AGP

>>8171337
Well, you're evidently unwilling to talk about the issue, but I'm not going to pretend it isn't a known fact just become someone refuses to admit it. So: No, you're wrong, the connection between AGP and being trans is known.

>transitioning is an effective treatment for adult transsexuals.
Of course it is, since "transsexual" might as well be defined as "someone for whom transitioning is an effective treatment".

PS nice digits.

>>8171371
>Well, you're evidently unwilling to talk about the issue, but I'm not going to pretend it isn't a known fact just become someone refuses to admit it. So: No, you're wrong, the connection between AGP and being trans is known.
So known that the vast majority of medical health professionals and organizations reject it. Nevermind that it doesn't fit Nuttbrock's data, that Blanchard's data has been massaged by discarding self reports that went against it, that it has to explain AGP (which is constantly hinged in erotic terms) going away post-transition as it not actually going away but developing into a lustless schizophrenic love bond between the individual and their alter persona due to a reduced sex drive, that the above ignores said individual remaining or indeed becoming sexually active post-transiton hence still having the capacity to lust overtly, that ETLEs are unfalsifiable, or that no causality has been shown between AGP and transsexuality in the first place.

>Of course it is, since "transsexual" might as well be defined as "someone for whom transitioning is an effective treatment".
Nice try but Blanchard believes that most non-chronic trans cases can be averted by an intervention before the individual matures. Adults are generally lost causes according to him though.

Even if you want to be a shitlord your god and savior doesn't support you going about it this way.

P.S. thanks they're for you

>>8171413
>medical health
you trolled me good desu I meant to write mental health but THE MAD has consumed me

>>8171413
>muh professionals
Right, the same people who only stopped calling being gay a mental disorder when it became politically incorrect.

When did the Pope die and make them infallible?

You homophobe.

>no causality has been shown between AGP and transsexuality in the first place
How could it possibly be shown?

>>8171143
why not rp as a girl online?

>>8171426
>You homophobe.
I lowkey hate myself so you might have a point desu for real though I get what you're saying but scientific consensus has to be worth something.

>How could it possibly be shown?
See, here's the thing: the universe is not fair. Sometimes there are things we can't actually prove using the technology we have on hand. When we run into such things we don't get to suddenly loosen our standards for scientific evidence. I think that, given our current tools and understanding of the field, we very much can't but that this will change as we make advances in neurology and neuroimaging. When we have the tools a very lengthy longitudinal study could give us conclusive evidence. For now the intellectually honest thing to do is to say that we don't know why the correlation exists (though some people have theories).

>>8171441
>but scientific consensus has to be worth something.
Tell that to Alan Turing's grave.

FYI psychs aren't scientists.

>When we run into such things we don't get to suddenly loosen our standards for scientific evidence.
You'd never know it listening to the "critics" of Blanchard.

>When we have the tools a very lengthy longitudinal study could give us conclusive evidence.
What evidence could possibly be conclusive?

>For now the intellectually honest thing to do is to say that we don't know why the correlation exists
I'm am entirely comfortable in my intellectual honesty in saying it is known to be true.

>>8171461
>FYI psychs aren't scientists.
Except for the guy who supports what you support ;^)

>You'd never know it listening to the "critics" of Blanchard.
Or to Blanchard.

>What evidence could possibly be conclusive?
An actual documented physical process.

>I'm am entirely comfortable in my intellectual honesty in saying it is known to be true.
Okay then. Why is Larry Nuttbrock's criticism and data wrong?

>>8171484
>Except for the guy who supports what you support ;^)
When did I call Blanchard a scientist?

>An actual documented physical process.
What documented physical processes would be conclusive each way?

>Why is Larry Nuttbrock's criticism and data wrong?
I don't know.

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>>8171499
>What documented physical processes would be conclusive each way?
Well, if you're a (wo)man of science then you're presumably a materialist, which means that you believe that all mental processes are ultimately encoded in matter. Having direct, empiric access to these processes would help rule one way or another.

>I don't know.
Then check it out. The data contradicts much of Blanchard's hypothesis about there being two clear-cut types. The correlation he spoke of exists but it is non-deterministic. Since Blanchard's argument was that AGP and HSTS transsexuals are fundamentally different and have different etiologies this data is incompatible with it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2894986/

"Measured categorically, 68.5%, 12.4%, 16.8%, and 2.1% of the 571 MTFs were classified as homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, or asexual, respectively. Measured along the continuous scale of androphilia, 8.6%were low,19.1%were intermediate, and 71.8% were high. Measured along the continuous scale of gynephilia, 63.7% were low, 20.8% were intermediate, and 14.7% were high.

About two-fifths (38.7%) of the participants reported lifetime transvestic fetishism; 25.0% reported lifecourse persistent transvestic fetishism; 9.3% reported adolescent limited transvestic fetishism; and 4.0% reported adult onset transvestic fetishism.

The percentages of lifetime and lifecourse specified transvestic fetishism across categories of sexual orientation and other variables are shown in Table 1. Twenty three percent of the homosexuals reported lifetime transvestic fetishism compared to 81.7%, 67.7%, and 66.7% among the heterosexual, bisexuals, and asexuals"

That there is a connection to ethnicity is just a "wut" thing desu

>>8171585
Not the other anon but the sexual orientations are assumed to be considered as if these MtFs were their bio sex like blanchard? I mean by homosexual do they mean they like men or women?

>>8171585
>Having direct, empiric access to these processes would help rule one way or another.
I get that much. What are the specific findings that if they were published in a journal would convince you either way?

>The correlation he spoke of exists but it is non-deterministic. Since Blanchard's argument was that AGP and HSTS transsexuals are fundamentally different and have different etiologies this data is incompatible with it.
Assuming the two types were correctly divided into the exclusively androphile and not exclusively androphile groups for the data. Is there any evidence of this?

If even only brief descriptions of the participants was provided I would put money on being able to spot trans women who were missgrouped.

There would be a safer sample if we could compare the no androphilia high gynephilia and high androphilia no gynephilia participants without the rest.

There are other issues too but this is enough to show that the study isn't reliable entirely.

Despite flaws, it does still show presence of the two types.

>That there is a connection to ethnicity is just a "wut" thing desu
It's explained by the existence of the two clear-cut types.

>>8171598
Yes. MTFs attracted to women are considered to be heterosexual by this paper. Not optimal but you can't go around only quoting people you completely agree with.

>>8171642
I don't have a problem with it, I was just confused.

>>8171598
Yes, androphile is "homosexual" (straight) and gynephile is "heterosexual" (lesbian).

>>8171626
You've dismissed this paper out of hand without looking at it closely because you like the evidence that you've already read. I can't take your arguments to be in good faith at this point. If you want to talk about misgrouping how about Blanchard discarding the reports of subjects that did not fit his theory as lies intended to boost their social fitness? I don't know why I bother.

>>8171585
>That there is a connection to ethnicity is just a "wut" thing desu

HSTS was always a brown girl thing, and AGP was always a white thing.

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>>8171675

>>8171675
Does being white make you AGP? :thinking:
For real though I never got a good explanation for this result. There's the idea that AGP itself is some sort of a coping response to rigid social structures and that said structures are more common among white people but that's a bit out there.

>>8171692
Even Trent told me that the most HSTS-like AGPs he knows are the ones who are mixed race, it's just a thing. I don't think AGP/HSTS was ever supposed to be an innate thing, it was always a socialized phenomenon, like being gay. Just look at how transgenderism works in collectivist cultures, it's completely different.

>>8171723
Homosexuality is known to be hereditary to a degree, which Blanchard recognizes. Transsexuality is viewed differently though, which I find odd but eh.

>Just look at how transgenderism works in collectivist cultures, it's completely different.
But the basic desire (being a "man" or a "woman", whatever that means in that culture) is the same, right? I think individualist cultures producing more transsexuals comes down to transsexuals from those cultures being more individualist and thus more likely to go against the flow rather than bowing to pressure and repressing.

>>8171674
I wrote a long post to reply but there's no point in submitting it if you're going to simply ignore and abandon the original conversation, your inability to describe the kind of evidence you insist on demanding.

Again: What are the specific findings that if they were published in a journal would convince you either way?

And you preach to me about good faith, after wasting your own time and mine on that detour which you now use as a pretext to avoid the issue of your own impossible demands for "proof".

>>8171692
Trent has explained it and Kay Brown has too on sillyolme.wordpress.com

>>8171761
>Again: What are the specific findings that if they were published in a journal would convince you either way?
A direct, empiric record of causation, captured via long-term observation.

>And you preach to me about good faith, after wasting your own time and mine on that detour which you now use as a pretext to avoid the issue of your own impossible demands for "proof".
I'm not demanding a proof of you as much as I am saying there is none, and I know there is none because I've gone over a fair amount of what Blanchard wrote, what his proponents wrote and what his opponents wrote. Much of what his opponents wrote is similarly unsubstantiated (psychologists gonna psychologist) which is why I brought up Nuttbrock's data, which needs no hypothesis behind it to be counterfactual to the typology because it merely shows correlations that are incompatible with it.

Your last post, though, made me realize that you're probably not here to listen, which is why I decided to give up on trying to convince you.

>>8171768
>sillyolme
Anon..

>>8171819
>A direct, empiric record of causation, captured via long-term observation.
"specific findings"

>I'm not demanding a proof of you as much as I am saying there is none,
You said:
>no causality has been shown between AGP and transsexuality in the first place
I said:
>How could it possibly be shown?
We're still at that same point in the conversation, because you still haven't given me a straight answer. How could it possibly be shown?

>you're probably not here to listen, which is why I decided to give up
Change the record. At this point you're just virtue signalling over how correct you are, like Jack Moloy or something. If you really believe I'm not listening, why are you still talking? If you don't, cut the act and answer the question I've been asking you every post since the start.

>>8171885
>"specific findings"
Blanchard made this incredibly Jungian construct about falling in love with your inner woman. I wouldn't even be able to tell you how that would look like in a brain scan given that we currently lack the technology to read brains to such a degree. ETLEs are presumably identifiable just like everything else once we do have the tech. If the AGP progression is real then long-term imaging would show it causing the change as well as show the physical means by which it is occurring.

>Change the record. At this point you're just virtue signalling over how correct you are, like Jack Moloy or something.
>Answer the question I've been asking you every post since the start.
I've answered it over and over again. I'm not sure what you're not getting.

>If you really believe I'm not listening, why are you still talking?
The same reason I got into this discussion in the first place after specifically saying I don't want to get into another discussion like this: because I'm easily baited and lack impulse control.

>>8171935
>given that we currently lack the technology to read brains to such a degree.
Then all psychology is as invalid in your view as the typology.

>ETLEs are presumably identifiable just like everything else once we do have the tech. If the AGP progression is real then long-term imaging would show it causing the change as well as show the physical means by which it is occurring.
Make up an example of what it might look like, with made up parts of the brain, and say how it would be different if Blanchard was right or wrong.

>>8171960
>Then all psychology is as invalid in your view as the typology.
Mostly. Some psych research makes fairly modest claims that can be rigorously tested under lab conditions. "On average people who have watched a commercial promoting a fictional product have rated it higher than the control group that did not watch the commercial". No grandiose claims about psychological processes.

>Make up an example of what it might look like, with made up parts of the brain, and say how it would be different if Blanchard was right or wrong.
???
By observing a fair amount of non-transsexuals we would be able to tell how healthy people develop. We could then observe the difference in development in transsexuals, particularly autogynephilic ones. We could compare the developmental process of HSTS to AGPs. If Blanchard is correct we would be able to see the whole lust for your alter ego developing into a cross-sex identity thing happening before our eyes (albeit via, say, monthly scans), and how that process subverts and supplants normal development. If he is wrong we would see some other process.

I just have a lesbian fetish. I almost transitioned, but I know I could never be a women.

>>8175626
>I know I could never be a women
why not

>>8175699
Too masculine features. A lifetime of male social conditioning. I don't want to be a man in drag

>>8164742
>think i'm trans
>tell a friend
>realize i'm agp
>retract my statement and not talk about it for months
>oh wait, i have crippling dysphoria
>think i'm trans
>tell a friend, again
>think i'm agp

Help, what do.

>>8177881
tell a friend?

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>>8175864
don't let your dreams be memes,
some guys kill it in drag

>>8177933
>kill it

lel

>>8177920
I keep flip flopping on not being trans, being trans, or just being an AGP faggot. Is there a test I can do that'll solve this?

>>8177951
You're "trans" if your AGP makes you dysphoric enough that you feel the desire to transition. There is no trans for being trans beyond that.

>>8177881
>Implying you can't be both trans and AGP

>>8178002
Sad.
I wish I wasn't.

>>8178032
I thought AGPs can't be trans and only HSTS are?

>>8178063
Blanchard himself wrote both are equally transsexual and both benefit from transitioning. It is, after all, his Transsexual Typology. This is if you buy into Blanchard rather than recognizing that his theory is bogus but there is basically no prominent school of thought, Blanchardist or anti-Blanchardist, that thinks otherwise.

>>8178074
And, what do anti-Blanchardists think of AGP?

>>8172042
>Some psych research makes fairly modest claims that can be rigorously tested under lab conditions.
>No grandiose claims about psychological processes.
If your issue is that processes are inherently unscientific and only predictions are allowed, then interpret Blanchard in light of that and the typology will still be true.

>If Blanchard is correct we would be able to see the whole lust for your alter ego developing into a cross-sex identity thing happening before our eyes
>If he is wrong we would see some other process.
How could any activity in the brain be shown to be or not be ETLE development?

Do HSTS/real transsexuals even exist or are they just super femme gays? (Isis King, Kim Petras etc.)

I honestly believe that 98% of MtFs are AGP.

>>8178097
That the typology does not match later research, that there was little proof for it in the first place, and that whether someone dysphoric has a fetish or not does not impact whether they should transition or not. Basically no one in the scientific community denies a lot of transsexuals experience AGP-like arousal (particularly before transitioning) and that experiencing this sort of arousal positively correlates with being gynephilic. Some memelords like Moser tried to prove cis women also experience AGP but they're generally not taken any more seriously than Blanchard is.

>>8178097
That is something irrelevant, basically. AGP can generate dysphoria, and dysphoris can generate AGP, but ultimately you are only trans if you have dysphoria.

>>8178131
>>8178134
So, since I do experience dysphoria, I am trans, regardless of whether or not I'm AGP?

>>8178131
AGP isn't a fetish.

>>8178134
>dysphoris can generate AGP
Baseless claim.

>>8164742
What is this AGP bullshit?

>>8178115
>If your issue is that processes are inherently unscientific and only predictions are allowed, then interpret Blanchard in light of that and the typology will still be true.
If you ignore all further data gathered by his opponents, which you seem keen to do. Blanchard outright discarded data that did not fit his hypothesis in order to make the graphs work out. Nuttbrock did no such things yet you've discarded his work after a cursory look. The bar for showing Blanchard is wrong is extremely low given that he made extremely bold proclamations about cause and effect. The very existence of a large group of AGP homosexual transsexuals is by itself sufficient to shatter the idea that there are two different etiologies at work.

>How could any activity in the brain be shown to be or not be ETLE development?
Once we can read state in the same way that we read the state of a computer program we'll be able to tell the difference between normal development and ETLE-induced development. ETLEs are Errors, right? A process going erroneously wrong is visibly different from the same process proceeding correctly.

>>8178120
The 98% figure doesn't match reality.
>>8171585

>>8178120
>or are they just super femme gays
That's what HSTS is.

>I honestly believe that 98% of MtFs are AGP.
iirc it's 80% AGP, 20% HSTS. This varies over time and by location though.

>>8178139
If you genuinely do experience gender dysphoria then yes. That is the qualifier.

>>8178181
>AGP isn't a fetish.
It is considered to be a fetish by the community at large.

>Baseless claim.
As baseless as the idea that AGP generates dysphoria. We don't know the relationship between the two.

>>8178139
Yes.

>>8178201
>If you ignore all further data gathered by his opponents, which you seem keen to do.
The predictions from Blanchard's typology are born out, including by Nuttbrock's study.

>given that he made extremely bold proclamations about cause and effect.
Nope. You don't get to talk about cause and effect, only predictive power.

>The very existence of a large group of AGP homosexual transsexuals is by itself sufficient to shatter the idea that there are two different etiologies at work.
Nuttbrock doesn't show there to be straight AGP MtFs.

>Once we can read state in the same way that we read the state of a computer program
We can't read the state of a computer program from the HDD.

>ETLEs are Errors, right?
That's a crude way of putting it, like saying the "homosexual" in HSTS.

>A process going erroneously wrong is visibly different from the same process proceeding correctly.
We've been here already. How do we tell whether a visible difference means ETLEs are true or not?

>>8178257
>The predictions from Blanchard's typology are born out, including by Nuttbrock's study.
Except for the whole "A large portion of non-HSTSs are not AGP and a large portion of HSTSs are AGP", which goes directly against it.

>Nope. You don't get to talk about cause and effect, only predictive power.
It is HE who talked about cause and effect!

>Nuttbrock doesn't show there to be straight AGP MtFs.
What do you call HSTS lifelong transvestic fetishists? Or is transvestic fetishism somehow not AGP when a HSTS does it?

>We can't read the state of a computer program from the HDD
So? You can examine the state of RAM and processor registers and everything else.

>That's a crude way of putting it, like saying the "homosexual" in HSTS.
It is an apt term given that they supposedly supplant normal sexual development.

>We've been here already. How do we tell whether a visible difference means ETLEs are true or not?
We've certainly been over this, which is why I don't get why you stubbornly keep asking an answered question. Reading state enables you to tell exactly what is going on. If ETLEs describe any process that can be strictly defined in any meaningful way then we ought be able to see it play out via examination.

>>8171935
>Blanchard made this incredibly Jungian construct about falling in love with your inner woman
I-is this why dysphoria to me feels pretty close to what having a crush felt like?

>>8178294
>"A large portion of non-HSTSs are not AGP and a large portion of HSTSs are AGP"
Nuttbrock didn't show this.

>What do you call HSTS lifelong transvestic fetishists?
Show me one and I'll tell you.

>So? You can examine the state of RAM and processor registers and everything else.
And what do you learn from that?

>If ETLEs describe any process that can be strictly defined in any meaningful way then we ought be able to see it play out via examination.
The question is how will you know when you see it?

>>8178217
>As baseless as the idea that AGP generates dysphoria.
You claimed both and now you're saying they're both baseless?

>>8178324
Yes, it is. Blanchard was right.

How do they feel similar to you?

>>8178500
Good sir and or madam, read the fucking paper.

>>8178510
>You claimed both and now you're saying they're both baseless?
I'm not that person. There's no evidence for either.

>>8178529
I've read it enough to say what I said.

>>8178553
You're denying it shows things it clearly does. Plugging your ears and going LA LA LA isn't a valid objection.

>>8178570
You're denying the fact that it doesn't show what you claim it does. You didn't even bother to plug your ears, you just ignored every word I wrote about how flawed it is and then started telling to believe it anyway as though I was the one ignoring the facts.

>>8178583
You *assumed* it to be flawed, asking for evidence that the researcher didn't fuck up when grouping his enormous sample size. This was your ironclad objection, which you've admitted to having made without even reading the paper all the way through. I'm glad we had this discussion because any bystanders interested in the truth got the chance to see that you don't actually have an argument.

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>>8164742
ITT we argue about acronyms

>>8178627
>You *assumed* it to be flawed, asking for evidence that
This is exactly your objection to the typology.

>which you've admitted to having made without even reading the paper all the way through.
Why do I have to read more than a flaw to spot the flaw?

>I'm glad we had this discussion because any bystanders interested in the truth got the chance to see that you don't actually have an argument.
Bystanders, see that anon's objection to the typology is based on shoddy statistics and a demand for impossible 'evidence'.

>>8178681
>This is exactly your objection to the typology.
Fucking lol. You have no reading comprehension.

>Why do I have to read more than a flaw to spot the flaw?
You do not know the context.

>Bystanders, see that anon's objection to the typology is based on shoddy statistics and a demand for impossible 'evidence'.
Nuttbrock's statistics are shoddy but Blanchard's are ironclad nice :^)
A scientific theory must be, at minimum, falsifiable. If that seems impossible to you then science might not be for you. I suggest theology.

>>8178693
>Fucking lol. You have no reading comprehension.
No, that's what this whole conversation has been. Your demand for unreasonable evidence, which you make for no other theory, because of your assumption that it is flawed.

>You do not know the context.
What context could possibly show that to not be a flaw?

What context does show it not to be a flaw? I know there is no answer to this but I ask for show. For the bystanders.

>Blanchard's are ironclad
Where did I say this?

Again, I ask for show, because I know the truth is that I didn't. Yet another strawman.

>A scientific theory must be, at minimum, falsifiable. If that seems impossible to you then science might not be for you. I suggest theology.
Your believe in a single etiology isn't falsifiable.

>>8178732
>No, that's what this whole conversation has been.
This whole conversation has been about you 1) arguing that sticking to falsifiable theories is infeasible and 2) ignoring data contrary to Blanchard's because you don't like it.

>Your demand for unreasonable evidence
I only demand that people stick to the scientific method when making claims in scientific papers.

>which you make for no other theory
I don't believe in any alternative theory either. That Blanchard is wrong does not automatically mean that the other common theories are right. Just that we don't know. The null hypothesis takes precedence.

>because of your assumption that it is flawed
It is not an assumption. I've read his papers. His data is directly contradicted by data gathered by later researchers. His claims about cause and effect are currently unfalsifiable. Nice projecting though.

>What context could possibly show that to not be a flaw?
You could have made the mistake you have made only by misreading the paper. I was kind and assumed you have done so by accident, through lack of context, rather than willfully.

>Where did I say this?
Okay, so alternatively you believe a theory to be fact despite also believing that the data the theory is based on is shoddy and unreliable enough to be dismissed out of hand just like Nuttbrock's.

>Your believe in a single etiology isn't falsifiable.
I don't know how many etiologies there are. I don't know the cause, and what I've been arguing all along is that we don't know. You seem to think that if we have a bunch of theories without proof for any of them we are forced to believe one. That isn't the case. The only intellectually honest thing to do is to say that we don't know.

>>8178801
>ignoring data contrary to Blanchard's because you don't like it.
It isn't data. It is random numbers. And the fact Blanchard was right still shows despite that.

>I don't believe in any alternative theory either.
I said other, not alternative.

Your bias is solely for this one theory.

>His data is directly contradicted by data gathered by later researchers. His claims about cause and effect are currently unfalsifiable.
No data contradicts his theory and it is as falsifiable as any other theory.

I asked
>What context does show it not to be a flaw? I know there is no answer to this but I ask for show. For the bystanders.
You couldn't answer and ignored the question, in the hope I wouldn't notice. Bystanders, take note!

>the data the theory is based on is shoddy and unreliable
The theory is independent of the data.

>I don't know how many etiologies there are.
You said it was proven there weren't two.

>The only intellectually honest thing to do is to say that we don't know.
That is a standard you hold no other theory to.

>>8179445
This whole post is just a straight up denial of facts that are verifiable in this very thread. This isn't one of your echo chambers. You can't make reason go away by just repeating falsehoods again and again.

>It isn't data. It is random numbers.
Fucking lol. You quite apparently don't even know what data is.

>I said other, not alternative.
What, in other fields? I sure do. Do you know what rigor is, and how papers in other fields must be falsifiable in order to be accepted as scientific?

>Your bias is solely for this one theory.
You apparently think that because you don't know STEM fields approach science with proper care.

>No data contradicts his theory
I thought you claimed it was random numbers :^)
The data shows that HSTSs can be trasvestic fetishists, which Blanchard classified as a type of AGP.

>You couldn't answer and ignored the question, in the hope I wouldn't notice.
"How will reading the paper inform me about the paper!?"

>The theory is independent of the data.
A "theory" independent of data is not a theory but an hypothesis, and an unfalsifiable hypothesis can't be presented to be a scientific fact.

>You said it was proven there weren't two.
Blanchard theorized that about a clear two-type division among certain lines. The data shows that there is no such clear division. This makes the typology argument false. What the data can't disprove is the existence of ETLEs and that's because they'e unfalsifiable.

>That is a standard you hold no other theory to.
Which theory do I not hold to this standard?

>>8179753
>This whole post is just a straight up denial of facts that are verifiable in this very thread. This isn't one of your echo chambers. You can't make reason go away by just repeating falsehoods again and again.
I've repeatedly pointed out multiple holes in your logic and you just keep ignoring them.

Everything in this line is false for my posts and true for yours.

As the conversation shows to any who read it.

Bystanders, you see that this is so?

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>/r/asktransgender is full of threads about getting turned on while getting dressed
>Half the MtTs dress like 13 year old girls
>Stefonknee. 'Nuff said.

But if you think that many transtrenders are just taking a fetish too far then you're a bigot, TERF, etc.

>>8180107
I want her to fuck my butt

>>8180107
>MtT
No, I think you're a TERF because you use that term.

>>8180107
>MtT
Hang yourself.

>>8180231
clg uses it all the time.

>>8188182
>implying clg isn't full of actual terfs and larping mtf terfs

>>8188182
/clg/ confirmed for TERFs.

>>8180107
>Not knowing you can be trans and AGP
>Not knowing that transitioning usually kills the fetish

>>8188283
>usually
source?

>>8188284
I don't remember where I read that. Some study comparing the rate at which pre-vs-post -transitioned MTFs were transvestic fetishists. The rate plummeted from 70ish to 20ish percent for those who lived as women full time. The lack of arousal correlated with the length of time one lived as a woman.

It is generally accepted by both sides that transitioning makes the masturbate-in-panties kind of AGP go away. Blanchardians think a more subtle, romantic-love-for-inner-woman AGP remains after you no longer get aroused by all of the overt stuff. His opponents believe that it just goes away entirely since it would be strange for just these parts to fade when transwomen are otherwise capable of lusting and are sexually active.

>>8188297
i want the love part and the panties part to both stay : (

>>8188284
The Holy Bibizzle.

>>8188313
The study suggests that a big part of what quells it is turning living as a woman into a mundane day to day thing. Transwomen who only dressed as women in private mostly kept it. If you want to keep it you should try that.

>>8188320
i want to live as a woman too. if i present as a woman but wear androgynous clothes and save girly clothes for private would it keep it for them?

>>8188354
No idea.

>>8188297
kinda reminds me of my job
i used to love to do x
but when i turned x into a fulltime career,
i just don't care for it anymore,
and it no longer excites me

>>8188354
just girlmode and see if it's really as good as you dreamed it to be

protip: it's not

if it's a turn on for you, better to do it in smaller samples

so if you're a cis guy, you'll enjoy cd'ing if you don't go full tranny

>>8188375
>protip: it's not
why not?

i'm dysphoric...

>>8180063
Bystandard who just skimmed your convo here, looks like you're unwilling or unable to read scientific papers and are just spouting bullshit and making wild claims without evidence past everything that anon says.
You're either baiting or legitimately retarded.

>>8188916
I'm sorry.