Ethics of cis lesbian seperatism

Because it implies that you don't see them as real women

>>8158144
Gay men usually don't care about FtMs. Like, I've never seen a gay men's event that makes a point of specifically going out of its way to exclude FtMs.
And why does it matter who want to date? Lesbian events usually aren't just about hooking up.

>>8158200
That's like complaining you don't see Michael Jackson as a real white boy.

>>8158144
Dunno, IRL gay men never seem to try and set up "cis gay only meetup groups." It's pointless to be that exclusionary, we can find dates/hookups without setting up exclusive meetups, and gay guys seem secure enough just telling people off when they're not interested in dating them. Besides from what I can tell gay men get accused of being racist, transphobic, biphobic etc based on their preferences as much or more than lesbians. I guess because sniping at gays can often be seen as punching up at more privileged subgroup.

A "cis gay man only no bisexuals or women allowed meetup group" would get torn apart publicly. The only time I am aware of gays trying to exclude any group from one of their semi private spaces was when a Californian gay bar set up a policy that banned heterosexual bridal shower parties, because gay marriage was illegal and the owner was annoyed about having to serve a bunch of heterosexual women celebrating their nuptuals expecting to not get hit on by any guys there. The policy lasted less than a weekend and the bar was boycotted then shamed for not being inclusive to heterosexual women.

>while gay men are allowed to exclude transgenders and any other type of LGBT even bi guys!
Do you have an example of a "cis gay only festival," because I am not aware of any. The only types of exclusionary behavior I am aware of is done here by the fringe gay guys here on 4chan generals, and the most public things I can think of are a couple biphobic/transphobic gay dating profiles (that get criticized the same way cis lesbians that just want to associate with cis lesbians get criticized).

>Why arent cis lesbians allowed by the trans movement to have our own private spaces and meetups?
A core value shared in LGBT culture is tolerance and inclusion. So setting up an exclusionary intolerant space for cis lesbians is going to be frowned upon by many members of the community including the cis lesbians that are willing to be inclusive.

>>8158216
The difference is that cis gay men don't go out of their way to exclude, but they don't try to include either. Cis lesbians are harassed for not being "inclusive enough". The word "lesbian" has been complained about because it's too exclusive, and some bi women complain about lesbians publications not adequately reflecting bisexuals too. So you have things like autostraddle that began as a lesbian site turn into a "queer" website and sections for "bisexual women in long term relationships with men - that's right! We see you!" In order to battle their "erasure". And then lesbian bars are closing because they aren't inclusive enough.

>>8158629
>lesbian bars are closing because they aren't inclusive enough

lesbian bars are closing because people don't want to risk getting a DUI when they could just stay at home and drink and go on Tinder or Plenty of Fish and find someone to clean their catbox.

>>8158629
>And then lesbian bars are closing because they aren't inclusive enough.
I doubt they're closing because of social pressure to be more inclusive. The economic reality is any business needs a broader clientele than just the half dozen gold star cis lesbian spinsters in waiting who 'can't even the trans/bisexuals/etc'.

Or am I just being a dumb arrogant gay guy for assuming that the majority of lesbians aren't big enough alcoholics/casual sex fiends/extroverts to sustain a de facto exclusive lesbian bar the same way my pent up lonely alcoholic peers are capable of maintaining de facto gay bars?

>>8158144
Just so i can gauge the sort of person you are, what would your opinion be on a white-only lesbian group?

>>8158693
It happens all the time.
They are called "friends"
Nobody is forcing you to hang out with gross transbians

Are there reasons "lesbians" aren't just "gay women"?

>>8158711
yes but what would your opinion be of an official support group that only accepted white lesbians?

>>8158711
I don't think that answers the question

>>8158721
Lots of reasons, some good others not so much.
Gay guys were too successful at LGBT activism and they were more visible than gay women (i.e. gay women erasure), general utility of being able to differentiate homosexual men and homosexual women with one word when talking about issues that would effect one group more than the other, and the burgeoning feminist movement of the sixties and seventies wanted to assert themselves with a distinct identity separate from male homosexuals.

Because the level of autism observed in "cis" "lesbians" who screech at trannies is actually indicative that they are repressed self-hating straight FtMs

What about cis bi girls or something? Do they get to come to your super secret lesbian meeting.

>>8158690
>>8158646
http://www.wweek.com/culture/2016/11/30/who-crushed-the-lesbian-bars-a-new-minefield-of-sexual-politics/

And the author of this article got a lot of complaints that she wasn't a PoC and therefore, was blinded by her biased privilege.

>>8158801
No. Platinum star lesbians only.

>>8158809
Ah. Do you need to know the password to enter this supersecret lesbian club?

>>8158721
mostly because they are from the island of Lesbos

I'm a cis straight male
I'm not transphobic - but trans women aren't women in the biological sex, pre or post op. It's perfectly normal to reject them as sexual partners, doesn't mean you hate them.
Fuck, you might as well say OP is a misandrist for refusing to be with a cis man.

>>8158724
I think it would be great.
Why not?
I don't think you should advertise it as "White Only"
Just invite people by word of mouth and only invite people you want to be there.
You aren't excluding people, you are including certain people.
You can't invite everyone.
You should invite the people you want to be there.
There is nothing wrong with this.
It is only wrong if people hear that they are "not invited"
But that could happen regardless of their orientation or skin color or whatever.
Maybe you just don't like their personality.
Just don't let them find out about it and then they won't feel hurt that they weren't invited.

>>8158144
This is pretty much the burden of any group having to deal with self-cannibalizing goals and finding some balance and a big problem with progressive movements in general right now

when ""you"" as in the collective LGBT combine your influence to advocate for each other and yourselves it seems hypocritical to then want to re-segregate groups when in suits you and maybe even counterintuitive to the entire movement

The time the collective LGBT spends infighting and attacking/defending cis-lesbian spaces, trans-lesbian spaces , poc-cis-lesbian spaces, poc-trans-lesbian spaces, might actually be time well spent but it's only even possible to have those discussions because at one point the collective LGBT united for overarching advancement of their agenda and could be equally counterinuitive in dividing the collective LGBT resources and energy among smaller groups

then theres another in-fight to be had when collective uniting can be reframed as erasure

this shit is a fucking headache meanwhile there's people that want to deny ALL LGBT people rights as much as possible

>>8158833
i was trying to point out how transphobic OP's idea was but you seem to think white only lesbian groups aren't racist as fuck apparently.

I guess this still works because i can discard your opinion

>>8158913
So we're supposed to feel bad if we don't hang out with people we don't like?

That seems self-defeating and pointless.

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>>8158803
>mfw I don't think I actually know any strictly lesbian girls
>even my dykey butch friends are bi or pansexual

>>8158929
head over to the lesgen discord then, we have a handfull of legit lesbians at least

>>8158803
Inane liberal fringe identity politics are inane, hyper sensitive authoritarian transtrenders exist and will complain about things, some out of touch middle aged spinster wasn't able to host her ideal lesbo meetup without feeling rude to trans people.
So what?

If "cis lesbian only" bars were economically viable, then they'd exist. Offended transtrenders be damned, because if there was money to be made in cis lesbian exclusive spaces there'd be creative people exploiting dikes to make money hand over fist.

The one time bar owner in the article says it best, even though the author was trying to support her own "muh exclusive lesbo spaces" thesis:
>Kim Davis, owner of the now-closed E-Room, cites a combination of factors that doomed her business after 15 years. The Great Recession, Oregon's smoking ban in bars, and her own health—not changes in people's identities—made carrying on a challenge. She says it was always harder to run a bar that catered to women than one that catered to men, who tend to have more money and motivation to go out to drink during the week.

Gay women aren't as easy to profit off of as gay men. So blaming trans identity politics for a commercial failure is just a dumb scapegoat for the lesbian community's own failure to organize spaces that cater to lesbian women's' needs. So please own your shit, and stop pretending exclusive lesbian bars would be profitable if it weren't for modern identity politics.

They are allowed to, or they should be. It does not necessitate hatred or phobia to not want to date trans women. I'm a bi woman, and wouldn't date a trans person-if I wanted a guy I'd date a guy, and if I wanted a girl I'd date a girl. It doesn't mean I hate them, just that I'm unattracted.

>>8158144
>>8158216

To the OPs main question on the ethics of excluding people, where would it be necessary?
there are Black clubs, Latino clubs, Asian clubs but I doubt any of these EXCLUDE people

just curious if not a club/bar setting where else would you need to exclude trans women if pussy isn't the main attraction of the meetup and cock would be a problem?

>>8158966
This

>>8158913
How the fuck is it transphobic if you just want a place that's exclusive for cis lesbians? That's like saying la raza is racist for not letting Chinese in.

>>8158894
Nope it's not about LGBT agenda it's about the right to socialize with people you are sexual attracted to.

>>8158894
Nope it's not about LGBT agenda it's about the right to socialize with people you are sexual attracted to. Same reason why Asians are blocked from entering la raza.

>>8159017
so like i was asking here >>8159017
is this really only about sex and not necessary anywhere else?

>>8159024
This is about everything. I'm lesbian I don't want to be around men. I think it's disgraceful the trannys stole the LGB movement for themselves.

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>>8159035
>I think it's disgraceful the trannys stole the LGB movement for themselves.

does anyone actually like lesbians...

>>8159071
Straight dudes

>>8159071
Other lesbians.

>>8158221
False equivalent. White people are not made of bleach.

>>8159082
If that's true, why do they physically abuse each other so much.

>>8159080
now that we have pansexuals straight guys don't even need lesbians though

there were already plenty of "straight" women to satisfy whatever need straight men have for lesbians and enjoy it for whatever reason

>>8159091
Not all of them.

>>8159108
Lesbians just want to have the same right to self segregation as gay men do. Why do trannys force themselves into private lesbian functions but never on gay men?

>>8159148
>Lesbians just want to have the same right to self segregation as gay men do.
Please provide an example of this gay male self segregation.

>>8158144
>gay men are allowed to exclude transgenders and any other type of LGBT
wtf are they?

>>8158144

Hi there. I'm MtF. I wanted to tell you that at least one of us doesn't really care either way, because really I'd rather just go home and be left alone to do hobbies or watch shows I enjoy. Include or exclude to your heart's content!

Could you do me a favor? Could you find the lesbian chicks that feel the need to be rude and abrasive to me at work and tell them to stop? I'm treating you how I'd like to be treated, so please do it in kind. Thanks.

>>8159260
No, but some deluded lesbians in this thread keep insisting we can and want to exclude FtMs.

In my experience we do not care. If we think a guy is attractive, he's dtf, then the vast majority of us will fuck and maybe afterwards date FtMs so long as there's solid chemistry.

>>8159318
If you really were lesbian you wouldn't want to hook up with a man.

>>8159249
Ok what about gay bars where gay men recruit straight women to hit on the lesbians, trannys and drag queens to scare them out the bar?

>>8159335
>still having >trulesbian debates in the current year
the real culprit is the supposed ftm who'd date a lesbian

>>8158144
Why should females have rights? Give me a rational answer, there just isn't any.

>>8159343
Lesbian = women who likes women

Not "women who goes to lesbian bars to hook up with fake women(trannys) or men"

>>8159335
Of course I am not a lesbian.
Is English your second language or are you too sleep deprived to notice the "we" I was referring to in >>8159318 meant gay men?

>>8159345
Because women are oppressed

>>8159358
This is 4chan everyone is an anon on here. Btw wtf are you going to lesbian bars to hook up with dudes?

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>>8159357
lesbians don't go to bars that's why there are no lesbian bars......or maybe there are no lesbians..

>>8159357
Classic masc autism. Give up and admit your categories aren't hard and fast - or at least are more complex than that.

Imo lesbian = women who would date ftms, mtfs, and cis fs, or any subset thereof excluding the subset of ftm-exclusivity

and gay men = men who would date ftms, mtfs, and cis ms, or any subset thereof excluding the subset of mtf-exclusivity

>>8159341
People not in the know would believe that's just an inclusive lgbt friendly bar not controlled by a sinister gay cabal, those sheeple are dead wrong.
That's how we gay men control the LGBT agenda and suppress cis lesbians. Another thing is you're wrong about the straight women prostituting. They're really reptilian shapeshifters, so they're technically hermaphorditic.

>>8159371
Wew lad, you're either trolling or can't into reading comprehension.

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>>8159341
>>8159384
>mfw gays are really campy and evil as cartoons taught me

>>8159357
but this is irrelevant to the thread. OP said they aren't transphobic, so they see trans women as real women. They wanted a cis exclusive space for other reasons (wouldn't know what these are though).

again what reason would there need to be a cis only space to distinguish cis women for transwomen outside of a dating+sex context?

that is relevant but theyre making it sound like its any bigger than issues of just sex and attraction

>>8159396
(hint: OP is clearly just transphobic if you haven't noticed)

>>8158144
The problem is you want to have your cake and eat it, too. You don't want to be with the trans? Well, that's fine, but you don't get to play the all-inclusive little butterflies that are perfect in every way.

Us gays get a lot of shit for our racism, for instance. We just don't give a fuck about it.

What you want really is transphobic to the T. It's way past not wanting to fuck them, you want them out of meetup groups or festivals. Like. What the fuck. Not even gays do that.

Anyway, you can do that if you want. You'll just get called a little transphobic cunt, but if you ARE, then what's the problem?

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>>8158144
TY for weakening women, and creating "Fragile Femininity." The fact that your femininity and sexuality is some how threatened by transwomen says a lot. Like having transwomen at whatever event your holding isn't going to be make or break in anyway. If you want to be bigoted and not date transwomen, cool, no one can force you to.

>>8158588
Has a point. If men try and make a "women excluded" anything the world loses it's shit unless it is sports. You want to hang out with other cis lesbians who have predijudice towards transwomen. Here is what you do.

Make friends, have an outing/organize an event and keep strict private control of the invite list. Problem solved.

>>8158833
You are actually saying that being racist, sexist, or whateverist, is fine as long as you don't let others find out your being exclusionist.

>>8158927
>So we're supposed to feel bad if we don't hang out with people we don't like?

This is the whole false premise...it isn't about you not liking trans lesbians as individuals. (Which is totally fine.) You are saying you don't like them on the basis of what they are, without considering them as a person. That is fucked. Doesn't have to be about them being trans. Treating anyone that way is fucked.

>>8159442
ok i'm stealing that last response because it's something I didn't know how to articulate forever, tyty

>>8159454
Glad to be of service.

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>>8159389
Well yeah, how else is the programing supposed to take if we don't subconsciously clue children into our true sassy satanic nature.

>>8159413
This thread is kind of disturbing really.
I wonder if exclusionary mind sets like OP's are common enough among lesbians to be a major factor in why gay males dominate LGBT advocacy organizations. We're a shallow subculture, but most gay men are apparently not shitty insecure or entitled enough to want to exclude transexuals bisexuals and lesbians from festivals and bars.

>>8159148
Still waiting on any example of "gay men self segregating ourselves" from "FtMs that force themselves upon us."

FFS now that I think more about it we have drag queen icons, twink fem boys, and all sorts of gender bender fuckery in "our" clubs and bars. How the hell does anybody actually believe gays self segregate out trans people when we regularly get blamed for shit like appropriating trans culture?

>>8159459
I mean most people see the majority of "gay bars" as just LGBT bars now a days so there is there.

>>8158144
>I support you but I want my own time with my own kind.
Are you ok with men-only colleges and clubs?

>>8159379
Yeah I always thought that actual, full on lesbians are probably the rarest of the lgbt bunch, most queer woman do seem to fall closer to bisexual/trans more then anything.

>>8159918
Yes of course I am

>>8158144
As a gay man I don't care about lesbians doing their lesbian things, if it does not affect my life or my mood.
Let them have whatever clubs they like, just check they don't show their lesbianism in public.

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>>8158144
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=743pNQKkpz0

>>8159442
>TY for weakening women, and creating "Fragile Femininity." The fact that your femininity and sexuality is some how threatened by transwomen says a lot. Like having transwomen at whatever event your holding isn't going to be make or break in anyway. If you want to be bigoted and not date transwomen, cool, no one can force you to.

You completely missed my point! It isn't bigoted for a lesbian not to date Trans women because trans women aren't real women they are fake. It's like saying white guys in black face are black people it's really sexist. The LGBT movement should be LGB. You can't change gender anymore than you can change race. That's not a phobia or hate to say that it's fact. If anyone is bigoted or has a phobia it's the gays who turn trans so they can be straight because they are ashamed of being gay.

>>8160415
Then how about you start doing something the change the stigma your feminist peers use to ban them from operating before whining here about your own first world problems?

>>8160151
That's a lie told by the trans community. There are more lesbians than trans and they wanted to steal our vote and voice.

>>8160452
>L is objectively the most masculine letter of LGBT
>and also apparently most timid
Something's not right here.

>>8160151
>mfw I'm at a bar (not a lesbian bar but still) and some "cis lesbians" near me start talking about how "fluid" their gender is, while I'm just here desperately trying to hold onto what little sense of womanhood I have

It's like watching rich white people throw away perfectly good food tbqh

>>8160466
>timid
What are you on about

>>8160469
They complain how they're silenced and stuff all the time.

>>8160466
No lesbians aren't masculine. We are true women. Trans genders are seriously mentally ill and they want to hijack women's rights and gays rights for themselves. They are obsessed with attention and don't care if it's positive and negative.

>>8160476
Are you for complete gender segregation?

>>8160476
>trans genders want to hijack gay rights

Say what now? Why would we care about those faggots?

>>8160479
What I'm for is the right to segregate if one desires. I'm a cis lesbian and I want to be around cis lesbians when
I'm socializing. I don't want these psychotic trannys showing up and hijacking my bars or my festivals or my Meetup groups. I find transgenders to be sexist. It's offensive to me that a man thinks he can become a women and invade our private safe spaces.

>>8160506
I'm a gay male and I'm for complete segregation, so I'm wondering whether we could find a common ground. It would be ideal if there were male-only and female-only countries and a woman entering a male country would be savagely beaten to death and vice versa. The trannies obviously being male would live in the male country.

>>8160484
You trannys are all about attention. That's why your doing it. That's why you go on Jerry Springer and humiliate yourselves. No attention is bad attention to you. You also love tricking lesbians and straight men into believing you are real when your fake. This is why everyone hates you.

>>8160514
I'm not talking about extreme segregation. I'm talking about the right to have social groups/settings that self segregate one group from another. I have a right to my own lesbian Meetup group or bar. Gay men have these things but transsexuals don't complain because they are more focused on making women uncomfortable than gay men.

>>8160515
>That's why you go on Jerry Springer and humiliate yourselves.

Yeesh, someone's stuck in the 90s....

>The trannies obviously being male would live in the male country.

Isn't this kinda like putting a passing tranny in a male jail, wouldn't we all just get raped and sold into sex slavery?

>>8160522
>I'm not talking about extreme segregation.
Give me a single reason why we shouldn't segregate completely. I feel genuinely sick to my stomach that my tax money are going towards abortions or treating female-only cancer types while men are being used as cannon fodder.

>>8160527
>wouldn't we all just get raped and sold into sex slavery
Is that a bad thing?

>>8160528
This is a false equivalence.

>>8160539
I wasn't equating anything, I was outright stating I'm for segregation. We hate each other, so why share the same country? It's the more humane option for you instead of just us genociding you lot.

>>8160506
*pats head*

It's utterly adorable how you're such a second wave feminist stereotype, truly truly adorable, but guess what, people like you are by in large dying off.

The lesbian/queer community by in large supports transgender women and has rejected radfem ideological nonsense. Like seriously, show me one legit lesbian publication that isn't a supporter of intersectional feminism. Slight hint, you won't find it.

& yes yes, we know, you find us vile, think of us as men in dresses, all that other stereotypical bullshit, like, we've heard it all before, but at the end of the day, trans rights are progressing at an increasingly fast pace, and as much as social conservatives (and yes you are one) like you may not like it, we will not be denied our rights, and that includes our right to love whoever we choose to be with. So again, if you have a problem with that, sucks to be you, because we are not going back in the closet just to make fucks like you have a false sense of comfort.

Because dudes are used to getting whatever they want over women, and that doesn't change when you put on a dress and chop off your dick.

spare me your "muh tranny childhood experiences lack male privilege boohooboohoo"

because it fucking did. even if you didn't enjoy it, you had it and you expect to continue to get it after you transtion. This happens in literally every women's group that gets invaded by hons

>>8160548

sorry about your dick jay peg

>>8159098
>plenty of "straight" women
That's the problem. Those straight guys don't wanna fuck a girl that they know likes guys. They wanna "conquer the unconquered."
>You just haven't found the right guy yet, baby.

>>8159459
Gay men are louder than lesbians and face much more violent oppression, that's why they dominate LGBT advocacy organizations. A lot of lesbians like to hide, they're like squirrels, and a lot more women straight up never explore being gay because somehow the notion that "lesbians don't real" is still pervasive in our society. Most lesbians aren't any more exclusive than your average Grindr user, and there's plenty of gender fuckery in lesbian circles, have you seen bull dykes? Transbians just start a whole blog and youtube channel when one girl turns them down, FtMs seem to take rejections in stride.

>>8158953
Just popping in to this thread to say that posts like this are why I keep coming back to this board. Thank you.

>>8160548
I never said cis lesbian and trans shouldn't hang out if they want to. I'm saying cis lesbians like me should have the right to avoid trannys.

>>8160900
Absolutely, every tranny should be forced to wear a trans flag patch with a word transgender on it.

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"Can we keep homosexuals out of straight spaces please? I don't want gay and lesbian pedophiles in public restrooms with my children and quietly spreading gay propaganda in public schools.

straight people should have the right to avoid homosexuals! all sexual deviants should be forced to identify themselves so that we can put them where they belong ok? thaaanks"

how are legbutts this oblivious?

>>8160900
lol who's forcing you to hang out with anyone? the cis lesbians that are comfortable hanging out with other members of the lgbt community aren't your kind. you're looking for a transphobic group, there are plenty of them out there for you.

>>8161032
i'd feminine benis hila

>>8160528
>I feel genuinely sick to my stomach that my tax money are going towards abortions or treating female-only cancer types while men are being used as cannon fodder.
Men pay around 75% of tax but women are the beneficiaries of around 80% of government spending.

>>8161106
idk why but the first time I saw her I thought she was actually retarded and kind of ugly

but she's charmed me I would too

>>8159035
This is why you fail. Lesbian groups are pretentious. They're also more susceptible to becoming transtrenders, which makes the anti-trans sentiment all the more ironic. Maybe the reason for the hatred is because you lose so many to "nonbinary" transtrending, and in their place a bunch of hons show up? You are not economically viable either, so you have no place to complain. You do this to yourself

Here's the difference. Gay cis men don't care. They're not going to froth at the mouth if a couple of FTMs or bisexuals show up, and they're certainly not going to scream and cry oppression and erasure. They also provide good money.

Your lesbian "safe spaces" will cease to exist if you don't stop being a bunch of whiny faghags.

>>8161126
Source or you just like making up statistics on the Internet.

>>8161186
>more susceptible to becoming transtrenders
do cis lesbian sepratists want to keep FTMs out of their "spaces"?

a lot of ftm trenders are basically still girls....

>>8159472
And the difference? Gay guys don't care and won't throw a fit about people other than cis gay men showing up.

As a gay guy I think its only fair if cis lesbians exclusively want their own space.

I personally don't mind FTM's (although I dont believe they have a male mind ) because they aren't threatening. And nor do they complain about anything.


However, no honest lesbian wants to be around some dude popping a boner at an all female event. That sounds gross. And besides the world works differently for both men and women. Men (particularly the ones interested women) are well know to be predatory towards women.

I'm positive that lesbians/women are sick/tired of the offering/pushing of the male anatomy/gauze. They shouldn't have to do with a reveal that a girl they where interested in has some knotted meat sausage.

Leave cis lesbians alone. Their situation is different than the gay men.

>>8160476
lol if anyone is obsessed with attention and mentally ill, it's you

get the fuck over yourself

>>8161204
Google it.

What do you guess the figures for tax payment and expenditure are by the way, if you doubt those numbers? Just as a guess.

>>8161211
>I personally don't mind FTM's (although I dont believe they have a male mind
Why not?

>>8161205
There are some of these more radical lesbians who see FTMs as traitors, confused, or victims of "internalized misogyny" or whatever. Depending on the stance, they may or may not be willing to have FTMs in their spaces. This is largely due to the fact that they still see FTMs as women.

Meanwhile those same lesbians who are fine with FTMs in their lesbo safe spaces try to kick FTMs out of all female colleges when they get into leadership positions because somehow now they're men because leadership=patriarchy or whatever.

Make up your mind, ladies.

>>8161211
As a girl I think it's only fair if het dudes exclusively want their own spaces.

Blah blah male gaze, gays checking out hets, gays getting boners around cis dudes, blah.

Kick out the fags.

>>8161273
Should non heteros be placed in gay slum districts rather than be allowed to self sort in gayborhoods themselves?

If its ok for homosexuals to marginalize transgenders then it should be ok for heterosexuals to marginalize homosexuals

btw I don't think it's ok which is why this topic is stupid to me if it really isn't about anything OTHER than sex and dating because that is the only context I could understand this being relevant in

>>8161307
But you said exclusively cisbian places without qualifying those places. Yet now that it's turned around against you as a gay man suddenly it's only about sex and dating. Why the u-turn?

>>8161327
I think you're confusing me with another person
I've been asking where it's necessary to have cis-lesbian """spaces""" outside of the context of sex and dating and nobody has brought one up

>>8159396
>>8159024
>>8158970

everyone keeps bringing up sex, genitals and attraction, is the issue any bigger than this?

>>8161211
>although I dont believe they have a male mind
well maybe you should educate yourself before spouting uneducated nonsense, you stupid fag?

>>8161370
>implying they do

>>8161370
A man can cut off his genitals and act like a female stereotype. But he is still a man. He has male mind and way of thinking even when testosterone is eliminated and estrogen pills are taken. A man doesn't have a women's nurturing or sensitivity. He still has a mans analytical brain and visual way of thinking.

>>8161714
Studies have proven that trannies have brains more similar to the gender they identify with rather than their biological sex. So good job, you proved yourself incorrect.

>>8161741
They still think like men. Look at how aggressive transgenders are. They don't act like natural women.

>>8161741
Discredited pseudoscience. Trannies have brains like gay men.

>>8158629
THAT IS THE BIGGEST CROCK OF SHIT I HAVE EVER READ.
As someone whom used to live in the lesbian club sean. No that is NOT why lesbian anything closes.

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>>8161830
give us the inside scoop on why the lesbo scene is what it is?? lesbians are so secretive I know nothing about them compared to gays

>>8161772
You're talking about HSTSes. And it's pretty much a given that those studies don't actually measure gender, because faggots and HSTSes actually had more "female" brains than cis lesbians, which is obviously ridiculous.

>>8161768
>muh women aren't aggressive meme

First of all, that's sexist. Second of all, I counter you with the "lesbian abuse statistics" meme.

>>8161933
Or maybe there is no gender, only orientation.

>>8161948
Clearly, but then what's the point of it? Nobody cares about the authenticity of sexuality. We need that authentic gender test STAT.

>>8161358
>everyone keeps bringing up sex, genitals and attraction, is the issue any bigger than this?
>As a cis lesbian I am not interested in dating transgenders.
Because OP started her thread talking about dating.

>>8161768
this so much

my experience is anecdotal, but i joined a tranner discord once and the amount of politics discussion was astonishing, i've never seen females discuss the same things tranners do

>>8162012
>women never talk about politics

What the hell? What kind of stereotype is this? My cis female friends were having a long conversation about fucking Zizek yesterday.

>>8159442
>bigoted for having a sexual preference

just jog on, this is why we don't like you

>>8162035
>not politics

try again, anon. that's like a bunch of girls talking about Freud

>>8162012
>women aren't smart enough to think about complex subjects like politics, only hair and nails. anyone who does obviously isn't a natural woman.
t. woman

>>8159442
>Make friends, have an outing/organize an event and keep strict private control of the invite list. Problem solved.

This. Why are you guys always moaning about this when you are completely 100% free to do this?

>>8162049
did i say that though? however the majority of cis female conversation typically does not include politics to the extent discussed by tranners

t. fuck off

>>8162048
Why does your response sound super sexist to me? What does "a bunch of girls talking about Freud" even imply?

i have no idea OP. honestly i am starting to hate being a lesbian because lesbians seem to be skittish or prone to being picked off by anything with a dick. i just want to find a gold star gf and settle down and it seems impossible

>>8162055
>did i say that though?
in not as many words? yes.

I dont really have anything against trannies. I'm just sick of feminists trying to make me worship them.

>>8162075
i didn't hate them until recently. (around the time the stupid bathroom bill and caitlyn jenner came into prominence) then it seemed like the insane fringe trannies took over communities especially lesbian ones trying to rape lebians with their dicks

>>8162057
>tfw transbian and all the "lesbians" are prone to being picked off by anything with a dick

You're preaching to the choir sister

>>8162084
>actually having your opinion of trannies influenced by Caitlyn Jenner

I really really wish we could go back to the before times, before she came out. Now I can't even listen to NPR without them talking about us. She fucked us over so hard.

ITT destined to die alone spinsters try to convince themselves that they'd have their ideal girl friend if only it weren't for transgendered people.

Girls it's never your fault nobody loves you. So just keep doing what you're doing and blame other people instead of examining your own repulsive personalities and behaviors that make you into an intolerable person to be in a relationship with.

I'm a lesbian dating a trans woman and I couldn't be happier. Don't really care what anyone thinks of it. Going into an older lesbian bar would probably not be a good idea in this city, because those old, tight knit bitches would react just like the goldstar nazi. Anywhere else? We'd be fine.

No, we don't do PiV. Yes we started dating after her transition. No I never knew her when she was presenting male. Etc etc etc.

>>8162167
Did she have SRS or do you just avoid that area? How do you pleasure her?

>>8162084
Hating trannies for trans politics is like hating women for feminism.

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>>8161237
>Why not?
FTMs are pretty down to earth. MTF are always so busy bitching about AGP HSTS Blanchardian early transitioners or whatever they call it-

>>8162176
No, that's expensive. She's small enough down there that I'm not grossed out by oral. It was a learning curve for me. So basically we do the standard lesbian stuff.

>>8162219
i hate both trannies and trans politics.

>>8162167
your nasty tranny dick is showing. have fun with the cotton ceiling fantasies

>>8162279
Oh, I was hoping you were a real lesbian, but I guess we have to settle for biscum after all...

>>8162298
I hate both women and feminism.

The analogy works.

>>8162167
You actually are straight not lesbian if you are a cis female dating a tranny. Yes even if he cut it off.

>>8162306
>>8162320
What. Do you have 30k for her to have surgery? If so please go ahead and help her.

At first I didn't know what to do for her, like, I need to help my girlfriend get off but I don't know how. It's kind of a big deal for me to make my girlfriend feel good. I was already falling in love with her at that point, so I learned to work with her 2 inch clit. Literally flick it with your tongue like you would any other clit.

But hey, I don't need to justify my relationship to you. She's the best woman I've ever been with. Leagues better than the emotionally immature/stunted women I tried to date before.

>>8162374
>What. Do you have 30k for her to have surgery? If so please go ahead and help her.
what the fuck does that even mean?

you're not even trying with the rest of that post.

>>8162504
Why are you talking about your own post? What are you even trying to say?

For clarity, since you all seem confused, I have a vagina. CIS as can be.

>>8162374
If you really were happy and didn't care about other's opinions, you wouldn't get so defensive while people are calling you out for being a biscum. Calling yourself a lesbian doesn't make you one. Just like him calling himself a girl doesn't make him one. Social justice warriors need to get a grasp of this.
>"I'm sucking a penis - you know, regular lesbian stuff"
Is what you said. Stop making other biscum look retarded.

>>8162555
you're honestly retarded and make no sense. as expected of a tranny and her sad lesbian conversion fetish

>>8162565
So hateful. Not to mention autistic about how other people live their lives. Why do you care so much? Why do you refer to bisexuals with a hateful word? Why are you such a little, angry person, trying to exert some tiny influence over other people and they're relationships even though they don't influence you in any way?

You're on the losing side here. The grand majority of people in the future will be apathetic or accepting of relationships like mine. It feels pretty damn good.

>>8162374

You're LITERALLY sucking a penis. What are you doing. How are you actually a lesbian.

>>8162612
Wowee I can hardly believe how salty you are. I feel all the rewards of trolling but all I had to do was tell the truth. Noice.

>>8162631

>You're on the losing side here. The grand majority of people in the future will be apathetic or accepting of relationships like mine. It feels pretty damn good.

Now I know this is /pol/ trolling. it's that 'current year' meme that gave you away, plus the idea you can flick a 2 inch penis with your tongue, plus that any lesbian would actually be that graphic about her sex life.

>>8162672
>she's different than me therfore she's not a lesbian! Time to build a strawman out of my favorite things to hate!

How inexperienced do you have to be with life in order to actually believe what you're saying? Are you actually nazi? That would explain a lot, like the horribly constructed arguments and irrational hate. Only she cares so much about how others love their lives. I've never seen anyone clutch their pearls so hard.

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>>8158144

> implying there are any cis women (excluding FtMs) on this board at all

>>8162685

>Are you actually nazi?
>I've never seen anyone clutch their pearls so hard.

I see, /pol/ is trying a reversal.

>>8162700
Goldstar nazi go home. You lost the argument and are reduced to bleating /pol/ over and over again.

>>8162761

I'm sorry, /pol/, but you're the one that needs to go :(

>>8162631
>The grand majority of people in the future will be apathetic or accepting of relationships like mine
maybe islam is a good thing after all

>>8162768
See
>>8162761

She's stuck on loop. Hardly a brain cell left in that rattling skull. Prediction for your next post: /pol/ /pol/ /pol/

Doesn't even make sense as an accusation. It's more like /pol/ to be traditionalists and be against the idea of trans lesbians all together. Kind of like goldstar nazi.

>>8162696
THIS
H
I
S

>>8158629
I miss the glory days of autostraddle. Hell I miss when it was just Riese's blog and mostly L Word recaps.

>>8160435
It isn't bigoted for a lesbian not to date Trans women because trans women aren't real women they are fake.
That is a bigoted stance, stop being an asshole.

>>8161254
>Meanwhile those same lesbians who are fine with FTMs in their lesbo safe spaces try to kick FTMs out of all female colleges when they get into leadership positions
I've not seen much of this, but i have seen terfs and ftms work together to keep trans women out of women's colleges.
usually its on the basis of trans women being men and degrading their sense of collective womanhood. Meanwhile the trans MEN in those spaces are getting rid of mentions of sisterhood and etc.

>>8163089
>but i have seen terfs and ftms work together to keep trans women out of women's colleges.
Specifics? That's really treacherous of the ftms.

>>8163112
yeah until you realize it's literally predatory perverts who think wearing eyeliner makes them women.

>>8163134
I don't see how a blanket ban on mtfs is justified that way, and it doesn't even make sense since these made up predatory perverts can go to co-ed colleges anyway...

This is obviously just males are evil scare stories spread by apologists for the double standard of female space but no male spaces.

>>8163163
>I don't see how a blanket ban on mtfs is justified that way
it's not a blanket ban

> predatory perverts can go to co-ed colleges
it's a womens college - literally supposed to be a "safe space" from this shit.

>no male spaces
go into engineering or compsci problem solved

>>8163185
>it's not a blanket ban
"to keep trans women out of women's colleges"

>it's a womens college - literally supposed to be a "safe space" for my misandry.
And men's colleges?

>go into engineering or compsci problem solved
Go be a beautician if you want your "safe space" from men.

i wouldn't mind it because I know how to clock a tranny, and I wouldn't flirt with them.

>>8162696
Yeah, I think most of the anti-trannies in these threads are just self-hating trannies, cis guys (like TERF anon), and maybe the occasional FtM.

>>8162696
>>8163290
I mean some peoople are undeniably this, but you can't really believe that cis women don't think that way too.

>>8163272
>I know how to clock a tranny
muh confirmation bias

>>8163298
I've never met any, the only TERF I met in person was a cis guy. Although there was this lesbian who said that she was still a gold star after sleeping with this dude, because he was a trans guy, so that was kinda transphobic.

>>8163226
>"to keep trans women out of women's colleges"
there's actual trans and then there's deluded perverts who grow out their hair and think eyeliner makes them female. got to draw the line somewhere

>misandry

fucking lol

>>8160435
Transwomen are almost always more feminine than you fat ugly beardless trucker looking motherfucks.

>>8163430
>>misandry
>fucking lol
Ladies and gentlemen, the feminist take on men's issues.

>>8163491
yeah women's colleges really oppress you. why don't you go cry about how buff videogame fighters make you feel bad about your fupa :((

>>8163508
Why don't you cry about how transwomen are oppressing cis lesbians by behaving like real women instead of men? Oh, wait.

>>8163226
>>8163430
You can't even pretend to address your safe space double standard?

>>8163519
because there isn't one in regards to something like women colleges. also men's colleges/schools exist but few want to go to them willingly so they're dying off. says a lot about male environments.

>>8163508
Get raped.

>>8163554
This is why no tranny should be allowed in women's only spaces
http://m.radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/college-allows-transgender-man-to-expose-himself-to-young-girls.html

>>8163508
If you want a safe space, go take a sewing class.

>>8163577
>Fox News
gb2/pol/

>>8163554
>also men's colleges/schools exist but few want to go to them willingly so they're dying off. says a lot about male environments.
Feminist lies. Men do want to go to them but you 'people' demand they become co-ed.

>>8163617
Fox news is liberal now so don't excuse me of being a trumper pumper I'm a Hillary humper!

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>>8163578
i don't want a safe space, i just think a bunch of whiny dudes and trannies calling out women colleges is stupid. they're private organizations where people voluntarily pay money to go- they have a right to dictate undesirables

>>8162696
FTMs aren't cis women so your clarification was redundant

>>8163578
If we went there the armies of tranny pervs would still show up.

>>8163653
This

Why is it so difficult to let lesbian cis women be? Fucking trannys.

>>8163653
Nope.

>>8163667
Kinda weird how you're treating women's colleges as if they're LESBIAN safe spaces, straight girls go there too

>>8163671
If those women were straight why not go to a regular college?

>>8163667
lol dude womens only colleges are filled with straight chicks. you'd actually have a better chance at a lesbian tryst at any co-ed college

>>8163678
because not everyone is a degenerate who goes to college for sex?

>>8163678
>mfw you think the point of a safe space is to have sex with other people

>>8163697
He's a TERF LARPing as a cisles feminist, possibly a self-hating MTF.

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>>8159148
>Why do trannys force themselves into private lesbian functions but never on gay men?
Because they're women and they're attracted to women, they just want to be included among women without being bullied. It's not forcing, they just don't have anywhere else to date other women besides lesbian circles.

I'm trans but I'm straight so I don't really have experience with this stuff, but they aren't invaders. They're just girls who were very unlucky at birth and don't want the world to constantly put them down for it.

I get it if you're not into trans girls, I'm not into trans men. Specifically, I'm not into vaginas. And I assume you're not into dicks. Such is life.

But I also know a number of trans girls with cis girlfriends, so it's not fair of you to speak for every lesbian by excluding trans people. Some girls are more willing than you. If a trans girl is interested in you, just be polite and say no. Don't hurt her.

Just be a nice person. None of us asked to be who we are. You didn't ask to be a lesbian, I didn't ask to be trans. We can't control it, it's not fair for us to be ashamed of it.

>>8164123
>having empathy for people living in a similar situation to your own
>Just be a nice person

amazing idea.....

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>>8164160
Maybe, but this is 4chan.

>>8164123
You don't get it. It's not about keeping trans women away from all lesbians. It's about allowing cis women the ability to avoid trans women. It's about letting cis lesbians have their own exclusive bars, websites and social gatherings. Lesbians have had their voice in the LGBT world stolen from them by straight women feminists who speak for us.

Why are cis lesbians such garbage people?

I'm cis gay but I'm not even slightly bothered by ftm people and don't mind being around them at all.

Im not into the idea of a ftm boyfriend but there's some good looking dudes among them and they're just people.

I don't want them excluded, and I don't get how cisles are so fond of viewing dicks as a disease.

>>8164451
nice try, transbian.
real gays aren't into men with pussies.

>>8164337
straight women are lesbians who like dick
ftms are lesbians who got smart and went full masc

why do we need cis-lesbians again? : /

>>8164467
I'm not into transmen, but I have seen some really good looking ones.

I'm a cis gay dude, and while in not into ftm dudes I can understand other gays who might be.

Also they aren't causing any problems being in gay male spaces.

>>8158144
>As a cis lesbian I am not interested in dating transgenders
That has nothing to do with a festival.
It's not a place where you should be looking for dates.

>I support you but I want my own time with my own kind.
Then go out with your friends?
They're "your kind", right?

Also, I hope this excludes black people.

>Im sick of the hostility of the lesbian only space
So stop going to those spaces?
Why do you want to go to hostile spaces?

>while gay men are allowed to exclude transgenders and any other type of LGBT even bi guys!
They don't, straight women go to their places all the time.

>Why arent cis lesbians allowed by the trans movement to have our own private spaces and meetups?
You are... invite your friends to a meet up...

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Just here to say Kek to this whole situation.
Because, this is honestly retarded, hahaha

>>8164451
If anyone is full of hate it's the gay men and trannys that suppress the L and B of LGBT by not allowing us to exclusively gather. Yet you gay men have your exclusive groups and so do trannys all the fucking time!

>>8164596
You ever thought mate, that maybe it's all of you being autistic for having these said exclusive clicks in the first place to make yourselves feel special?

Fucking righto mate

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Basically, this, this is your complaint to me

>>8164603
It's not about making lesbians "feel special" it's about avoiding fucking cocks ! And inside out cock is still a cock!

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>>8164621
When I hear that, I basically here

I want a safe space from cocks.

It is about making you feel special. You expect an ENTIRE fucking event, dedicated to your specific sexuality. I find ALL of you, to be silly. I don't expect there to be an event where I bar everyone else from entry for their sexuality, that's fucking autistic.

Jesus Christ.

(Also, I do agree on the trans shit. But, you are already on the identity politics train senpai, you might wanna get off it, because you're being left behind for more "oppressed" people)

>>8164637
It's about personal safety not because we feel special or superior. It's well known trannys are craxy men. Here is a source of just how psycho they are...

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/01/24/the-democrat-base-at-war-transgenders-vs-cisgenders/

They are obsessed with stealing privacy and identity of CIS lesbians!!

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>>8164643
>Rush Limbaugh

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>>8164648
Hahaha, I know senpai.

But, in any case, yes, are trans are more likely to have other mental illnesses due to the seriousness of Gender Dysphoria.

Doesn't mean you should have a special event either senpai. It just means NONE of these people should over this retarded shit.

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Wait.


What the actual fuck? Fucking how could auto correct make senpai?

The fuck?....Waitttt

Oh, so they changed the word. Wow.

Fucking awesome, I get my words changed here. Fuck off

>>8164653
We deserve it because if it wasn't straight guys drooling over us lesbians gay men and trannys would have been exterminated years ago. We saved you so give us tranny/cis guy/bi free spaces .

>>8164658
get the fuck off our board newfag

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>>8164660
Kek

I'm sorry, are you fucking insane?

"We deserve it because if it wasn't straight guys drooling over us lesbians gay men and trannys would have been exterminated years ago. We saved you so give us tranny/cis guy/bi free spaces ."

Look at this. A. Do you realise that there REQUIRES straight people for humanity to fucking continue? This is what I mean, you autistic fuck. Of course straight people are attracted to the opposite sex.

And how did straight people being attracted to gay women form gay men? Is it because these men couldn't get them? (Or is it more likely to be the same reason lesibians formed, as in a light genetic inclination to be gay, combined with life experiences of sexuality with same sex)

You logic is utterly fucked senpai. You have such a fucked distain for straight (men, it seems, is your focus) that you blame them for gay men and trannies.

And not only that, you do realise trannies also exist on the opposite gender, and have practically the same issue right?

What the fuck.

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>>8164662
Sure mate, totally.

When you get of 4chan fag.

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Sure mate, totally.

When you get off 4chan fag.

>>8164684
No it's you who's fucked in the head. My point is because straight men love lesbians they decided to stop oppressing the gays/tranny so they wouldn't look like hypocrites.

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>>8164703
HAHAHAHAHHA

"because straight men love lesbians, they decided to stop oppressing the gays/trans"

Wow. Just. That's the reason huh. Makes all the civil rights protests, and other various attempts to equal people on a equality of opportunity seem pretty redundant.

Jesus christ. Can you be more fucked? I mean, it's not like, you know, Lesibians were just as demonised as gay men right, at a point?

God fucking damn. You entitled fuck.

>>8164709
Actually I speak the truth. Only cis people left against gays are blacks and Muslims.

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>>8164713
>Only cis people left against gays are blacks and Muslims
you haven't heard of anti-gay propaganda putin started putting out across russia and the rest of the former soviet bloc to distract the west from their dismantling of democracy and human rights, stop protests and turn the people on each other?

these are white christians

>>8162074
um, no. my statement was referring to the differences in conversation topics between females and trannies

>>8164451
it's completely different, gay men aren't threatened by FtMs because that's just how society works

MtFs are typically bigger, stronger, and far more aggressive than your average cis females that's why they intrude. and cis females being well, cis females, we are socialised to be accepting and empathetic of others where MtFs (aka males) are socialised to be aggressive, dominant, and strive for what they want

MtFs really are very different from cis girls, spend some time observing the two and you'll notice it very soon

>>8164800
double standards against women as usual

>>8160731
what about straight MTFs?

>>8164800
>MtFs are typically bigger, stronger, and far more aggressive than your average cis females that's why they intrude.
Same goes for lesbians, which makes it completely fair.

>>8164800
>tfw you were submissive and compliant
>tfw you were empathetic of others to the point of feeling bad for people hurting plants
>tfw you prioritised group harmony over your own happiness
>tfw you finally transitioned and became an Alpha because apparently that's what all MtFs are

baka desu senpai

>>8158221
>>8159084
Michael Jackson was also never trying to be white nor did he identify as a white person. He bleached himself because he had vitiligo and it developed to the point where whitening all his skin was a better option than using makeup to keep his natural colour.

>>8160548
>our right to love whoever we choose to be with

Umm.. That's fine as long as whoever you love wants to be with you too. The phrasing doesn't seem like you're taking this other person's wishes into account.

>>8158953
This. How would trans/bi/etc people even be able to make a gold star lesbian cis only bar close? What are they gonna do? Boycott it? They couldn't even go there anyways. Give them bad publicity? Anyone looking for a gold star lesbian cis only bar isn't going to care about that.

>>8159017
How does that make sense? You're not going to find everyone in your cis lesbian comunnity attractive anyways. Even if every transwoman was a completely unpassable disgusting hon it isn't going to change anything, trans people are a minority even smaller than yours. Just like your existence doesn't make it any harder for a straight man to find a date or a straight girl to find a straight girl friend, the existence of trans lesbians doesn't make it any harder for you to find a date or a cis lesbian friend.

>>8160466
>most masculine
>not exclusively top bi dudes

>>8160522
But nothing is stopping you from making your cis lesbian groups if you want? If you hate trans people so much, why does it even matter to you what they think? And trans people have a right to complain about your "safe spaces" just as much as you have a right to make them, you know.

>>8162012
>>8162055
>oppressed minorities tend to be more politically invested than privileged majorities

Wow, who would have guessed?

LGBT in general is more political than the average straight or cis counterpart. My sister is a cis lesbian and she spends all day spouting identity politics straight out of tumblr.

>>8165025
Autistic != masculine

>tfw you chop your dick off, grow boobs, lose a huge chunk of muscle mass, make your skin dry as fuck, get stared at by people on the street and completely nuke your sex drive just so you can date a lesbian

rip

>>8165078
HSTS FTMs are autists too. HSTS MTFs are the odd ones out.

Is a cis straight woman who wouldn't have sex with a cis lesbian woman necessarily homophobic? Of course not. She could be a fantastic ally and people would respect her preferences without calling her out for them.

So why is a cis lesbian who wouldn't have sex with a transbian necessarily transphobic? Is she not allowed her preferences as well?

>>8165152
>Of course not.
???

>>8165154
Instant reply. I'm sorry, did I hit a nerve? :^)

>>8158144

Technically it doesn't make you transphobic. It just makes you an asshole.

You can have a lack of interest in trans people if you want, and honestly I can't blame you for that any more than I can blame someone for having racial preferences in dating. However, to imply that they should be segregated from those groups because of this implies that you don't see them as real women. Which, to someone who went through, or is going through, the trouble of transitioning, is a really shitty thing to do.

>>8165162
I saw your post on the front page...

>>8158953
>>8158690
this 110%

I'm sure there are lesbians who like to go to bars, but it's telling that the article linked near the top mentioned "thirty-something women." Every les I've met at a dive of any kind has been mid-thirties. Fifteen years older than me, with a job that I have no doubt they carefully budget out $30 of beer money per month from.

Straight women only go to bars because boys will buy them drinks. Gay bars survive because men don't feel ugly if they buy their own tequila.

It's one of those gender role things. Not necessarily bad for society, but definitely terrible for business that tries to cater to lesbians.

>>8164824
except lesbians are still female, where MtFs aren't

>>8164992
>identity politics
>tumblr

K.E.K

>>8165351
who caress? they said it was fair not that they are female

I am 90% sure that the "cis lesbians" in this thread are just trolls trying to stir up shit. The ones that are actually cis les are probably the type who never go out anyway.

This thread just reads like trolls trolling trolls. Real life lgbt groups and les groups do have their holier than thou bitches (especially the type that like to make out then look around to see who's watching) but the grand majority of women don't care. Trans lesbians make up a small amount of lesbians so even if you don't like them they're easy to avoid.

T. cis lesbian

>>8164596
>If anyone is full of hate it's the gay men and trannys that suppress the L and B of LGBT by not allowing us to exclusively gather. Yet you gay men have your exclusive groups and so do trannys all the fucking time!
Go ahead, gather where ever you want and associate with who ever you want. Nobody but you is stopping you from excluding trans or bisexual women from a get together. You're just bitching because trying to be exclusionary isn't social consequence free in a community that thrives off of inclusion.
That's one of the reasons why we don't bother excluding anyone, including the heterosexual fag hag orbiters who at very best can only offer gay men friendship, from our allegedly "exclusive gay gatherings."
Please get it through your head that these "exclusive gold star gay male only spaces" you want to copy for intolerant lesbians are fucking manufactured by your imagination.

If you really want to have the exclusivity of an immature autistic biphobic transphobic gay keyboard warrior that treats lesbians bisexuals and trannies like shit, then congratulations. Just keep doing what you're doing and you'll eventually have the most exclusive of all personal spaces. By alienating enough people IRL with your delusional "iz so unfair for lezbos" rants no one will want to associate with you, because you're such an annoying bitch willfully detached from reality.

>>8165475
except a bigger female =/= a male

>>8165170
No it's isnt shitty thing to do because trannys aren't real women. Saying trannys are real women is no different then saying white men in black face are real black guys.

>>8166799
Please be a poe because that's a very stupid sentiment.

Are women really so invested in inane femininity litmus testing bullshit that they react to a trans woman the same way the average black person reacts to a minstrel show?

FtMs don't offend me when they say they're men. If they're masculine, and refer to themselves as male, then fine. He's a guy.
I won't get all "oh noes mah delicate male fee fees, muh reel masculinity shibboleth wuz mocked by an FtM identifying as male"

>>8167369
That's because manhood isn't even worth protecting in our society, tranny panic is ultimately a result of female protectionism. Just look at the bathroom arguments, it's all about "protecting girls" from perverts, but nobody cares if those perverts are in the same bathroom as their little boys.

>>8167442
Because little boys only get molested 5% of the rate as little girls get molested.

>>8168020
[citation needed]

>in4 feminist 'facts'

>>8168020
Even if it was 1:1 no one would care as much about protecting boys as they do girl.

There's a reason news headlines read as "40 killed in attack, including 2 women" and awareness billboards say "1 in 4 girls will be physically or sexually abused in her lifetime" (when it's more around 1 in 2 or 2 in 3 for boys when you include the physical assault). It's because protecting males is not important to society. If they can't survive on their own then they aren't worth having around.

>>8168124
And people on this board still deny the grass is greener for mtfs even when they can only ever get a sliver of true female privilege.

As a gay guy I've always wondered and this thread makes me wonder more but why are lesbians such cunts? Is it some kind of forced victim complex or something?

>>8168164
Women in general, not just lesbians, are raised to see themselves as victims of male society, needing to constantly be looking over their shoulder for possible male sexual predators that are lurking around every corner.

Lesbians just take it to another level because they have so little actual experience interacting with men in the real world that the only thing that can go off of is all the transgressions made by men against other lesbians in their anti-male circlejerk. They are essentially the female version of /r9k/ neckbeards who think every woman is out to falsely accuse them of rape yet have no actual experience with the opposite sex.

>>8168248
Actually it's the trannys they are the ones with real victim complex

>>8168717
In their case it's true, except in as much as it's just the female paranoia/victim complex.

>>8168248
this makes sense especially if their only experience with sex is rape

>>8168717
Trannies I find are kind of 50/50. Some of them basically desire to get a piece of the victim complex and go so far as to transition to get it. Those ones won't shut up about being victims.

One I know transitioned at 31, lived their entire life up to that point as a druggy, biker, gang banger, but them, like a fucking miracle, within 2 months of throwing on a wig and some makeup all the sudden there are facebook posts about how "afraid she is to be alone around men", and how "men just don't get the fear women feel walking alone at night". Really? Bitch, you were one of those guys that everyone, not just women, would be afraid of running into at night just 2 months ago. Give me a fucking break.

Then there are others that are the exact opposite. They usually were shy, awkward guys and then they transition and realize how easy girls have it. They go from being social outcasts because they are quiet, shy guys to having people approach and interact with them because they are no longer seen as potential rapists.

>>8168739
Something tells me you aren't quite so understanding or /r9k/ guys.

>>8168847
But men still have it easier than women. I'd rather be the one people are in fear of then the one afraid.

>>8169535
>men still have it easier than women
[citation needed] (but not forthcoming)

>>8168164
I really don't know if /lgbt/ should be your guide to understanding a greater group of people (or literally anywhere on 4chan really).

Personally one of my oldest friends is a lesbian we met through work, and she's legit one of the nicest, chillest people I know. And I'm a cis guy even.

>>8169606
Men have it easier then women because men treat women differently then their guy friends while women treat men like other females.

>>8169535
That entirely depends on the type of person you are.

If you are a super outgoing, outspoken, motivated, leader typer of person then you'd have it easier as a man for sure. If you are a more quiet, shy, passive, follower type of person you have it easier as a woman. People just like to say men have it easier because the leader type of person is romanticized so much in society and those types of people (surprise) think everyone secretly wants to be just like them.

>>8169728
Men treat women differently because they are brought up from birth being told they need to coddle women, that if they offend women or make them uncomfortable there will be consequences.

And women do not treat men like they treat women, pretty well the exact opposite. Women treat men like potential threats if they don't know them, or punching bags, emotional sponges, and free entertainment if they do know them.

>>8169728
Actually women display ingroup bias towards other women.

>>8169859
What about Muslims? Your telling me lesbian cis women in Saudi Arabia have it easier than trans women who still are seen as men and have their male privilege?

>>8170151
Do you have any idea what happens to trans women in Saudi Arabia?

>>8170151
Even in a shithole like saudi arabia, women still aren't beaten and murdered like transwomen are in developed countries. I suspect a transwoman in saudi arabia would suffer much worse than that as well.

>>8170169
>>8170199
Feminist lies can be exceptionally transparent. Are they used to men not even trying to see through them?

>>8170199
As long as a transwomen is a liberal Hillary supporting democrat she will do just fine in Saudi Arabia because she was born a man. Women there are stoned just for looking at a man the wrong way in that country!

How about we just deport all trannys to Mexico?

The bottom line of all this hateful people are going to be hateful people. I can promise you transwomen are indeed women. Date one and find out.

>>8161001
And all gays lesbians, asexuals, cis hets, and....

>>8161211
This is either flase flagging or just another bigot on parade.

>>8161830
Go back to clg S. No one likes you.

>>8170464
If you accept transgenders as "real women" then you better accept Michael Jackson as a real white boy. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

>>8170633
Gender and skin color aren't even remotely comparable.

>>8170640
Yes they are. Michael Jackson suddenly became way more famous when he became European American just like Caitlyn Jenner when he became tranny. Where is the publicity for female to male trannys? This shows you men and whites do have it easier than cis women and blacks.

>>8168164
The half dozen lesbians I've met IRL haven't acted at all like the posters here. They've been bros, chunky 20-30 somethings madly in love with their wife, sweet old ladies that automatically becomes a gay guy's cool as heck nerd aunt with raunchy stories about the sixties and seventies.
With the exception of one really loathsome closeted but obviously lesbian crone, the lesbians I've gotten to know out and about in the real world are better people than most. So try not to let this thread sour you to lesbians, because you might miss out on getting to know a lot of good people.

>>8170151
>>8170169
Googled "trans women saudi arabia" then chose the first result that was from a semi reputable paper and got this exercise in confirmation bias:
>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-transgender-activists-pakistan-torture-death-police-custody-denial-a7615336.html

File: chaz-bono.jpg (70KB, 719x504px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 719x504px

>>8170675
>Where is the publicity for female to male trannys?
Do you remember Chaz Bono, he's been around for decades?
He's an upstanding citizen, and nowhere near as much of a fame whore as Caitlyn is.

>>8170756
Chaz Bono is exception to the rule and he was already a famous NFL qb for SF 49ers and Kansas City Chiefs

I don't think it is wrong for a cis lesbian to not be interested in me because I'm not cis or even set up an exclusive support group centered on discussing something that pertains to cis women but not transwomen. I do think banning me from using women's bathrooms or attending a women's festival is not fine. The motivation for the latter examples is usually hatred. I'd be a lot more sympathetic to TERFs if they didn't use every opportunity to insult and belittle me for working toward having a body I'm comfortable with.

>>8171479
Do you think it's ok to ban men from things you shouldn't be banned from?

>>8170436
will kek date me?

>>8171504
Transwomen are significantly weaker than men and are even more likely to be attacked than cis women. Being allowed to use a bathroom to which men aren't allowed entrance is equally important and pragmatic in our case. As to women's festivals and the like.. non-trans XY women are allowed to attend them, right? They seem to be focused on women in the cultural sense rather than in the biological sense, which is why I think excluding transwomen doesn't make sense in that context. Men aren't women in the cultural sense. I wouldn't take offense at being excluded from something focused on the experience of growing up as a girl because I didn't grow up as a girl, or on giving birth because I haven't and can't give birth.

I'm not one of those people who think transwomen are literally the same as cis women but to think of them as men is equally misleading. We're somewhere in the middle, leaning toward the reassigned gender. Hormones are a hell of a drug.

>>8171618
>non-trans XY women are
are an obscure corner-case.

>cultural sense
That's up to the organizers isn't it? Maybe they want their festival to be for people with 100% of the cultural/socialization experience of women, maybe they don't, and they can decide on trans women based on that.

Are mens colleges, clubs, etc also fine since they're for men culturally?

>>8171618
>Transwomen are weaker and more likely to be attacked than cis women

Is that why transwomen regularly assault cis women and bully them?

>>8172226
First thing first, what does that have to do with anything?
Secondly, the rate at which transwomen and cis lesbians assault women is fairly close. The rate is way lower for straight women though.

>>8158200
If they have a dick they aren't
Simple

>>8172238
Even if they don't have a sausage and grapefruits but have a artificial pair of cantaloupes along with a fake taco installed they are still men.

>>8172248
Up to personal interpretation and surgeon mah dude

>>8172275
You can't change biology muh little faggot

>>8172339
I know
But people tend to see genitals not past surgeries

>>8172385
I dont want to sleep with a man because I am a lesbian! I am a cis lesbian who desires to have her own lesbian spaces. Why is that such a bad idea? Why is it ok for gay men and tranny's to exclude yet all hell breaks loose when cis lesbians want our own space?

>>8171479
as a cis lesbian i do agree with this poster. while i have absolutely 0 intentions of sleeping or forming a relationship with a trans person, post-op or not. i don't think banning them from all female spaces is fair. That being said, and this may just be an isolated case, i remember reading a post about a pre-op transwomen who was showering at the pool with her dick out, a female was uncomfortable with it (and in my opinion, rightly so) and all the other transwomen were acting like the female was a bigot and in the wrong. a penis is male genitalia and shouldn't be exposed within female-only spaces

>>8173051
Actually transgenders aren't female it's very sexist to think they are. They are nothing more then gay men in drag trying to be straight because they are self hating homophobes.

>>8172793
Idk man
Imo you have the right and should go for it
Just good luck finding a way to keep it tranny free

Why are trannys and lesbians the conservatives while bisexuals and gay men are the liberals?

>>8175080
Actually you got it backwards butty boi

>>8173777
i don't agree.

While i will never think a transwoman is female, i do understand why they transition, i just don't like their entitlement