/agpg/ - AGP General

So, are you a left wing or right wing ?
OP's a lefty :^)

>>8150646
Left (not liberal SJW)

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>>8150646
Neither

protip. left and right don't really mean anything.

who here /faceappruinedmylife/?

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>>8150594
heres a cute print i have in my room

>>8150646
Libertarian best wing.

>>8153332
its may very well be pushing me over the edge to get on mones.

>>8150594
I collect cute girl paintings/prints. I've always liked female portraiture. Found out recently one of my most coveted is Gia Scala by serruptitiously watching The Alfred Hitchcock Hour. Ten minutes in and I shit my pants. She dated Steve Mcqueen for 2 years and died very much like Marilyn Monroe. I'm horrible at facial recognition so I was proud of myself. It's an original Victor Keppler Timken Bearing office/warehouse calendar.

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>>8153355
Saved. Heres my Gia. Sorry for fuzziness bad camera and unsteady hands.

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>>8153498
Pretty sure this is a real portrait. $25 at an antique store. I'm still in love.

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>>8153511
This is vintage. $4! I still ache over condition issues though.

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>>8153534
A great print. I love Art Nouveau.

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>>8153545
My only other Nouveau. It's a 1902 French wall calendar print.

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>>8150646
left

I spent 4-5 hours shopping for bodysuits and dresses online and then just ended up buying a mens turtleneck lol

does anyone else do this?
if I don't just pull the trigger early on at a certain point it feels kind of obsessive and then by not giving in I feel like I'm doing a good thing as if it's exercising some form of self control over a drug

I rationalized not buying it as saving money to get a sewing machine so I could learn to make my own stuff and do something productive while also indulging myself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zudg-yOtEXY

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>>8153567
Dammit I forgot I took that sideways. I got called an old lady(?) for thrifting this. I've seen similar ones would like to know the artist.

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>>8153589
$20. Really real. Painted in Holland in 1972. Kaikla? I don't care if it's worthless it's a masterpiece to me.

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>>8153589
>got called an old lady(?) for thrifting this

is this you :^)

>>8153629
I dunno but that's one hell of a print she's wearing. I feel like the old guy in The Grand Budapest Hotel except repressed tranny lol.

>>8153614
jesus fuck that's enough, go spam mtfg you attention whore

>>8153589
>tfw will never have the hips like the women in pink
I like this one

Haven't posted here in 3 months. How's the thread going? Any new insights?

>>8153730
I'm all ears if you really have anything to share.

Is this conception of AGP supposed to be post-Blanchardian then?

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Yoooo I'm high as fuck. AGP here who transitioned without dysphoria 3 years ago when she was in high school. Don't know why I'm posting here, but anyway, AMA

Sorry for any spelling or grammar errors, blazed as fuuuck

i consider myself straight acting bi top BUT i have dressed in girls clothes(at home only) and do like the thought of acting a bit delicate occasionally.

every day im just a normal bloke doing bloke things but fuck, i sometimes feel like i do that girl stuff cos i can sorta pull it off, i feel ashamed too.

this is the tricky bit.. i feel like a jock stuck in a twinks body and the only reason why i occasionally do girl things is because its easy and i get attention from it

>>8154138
>AGP here who transitioned without dysphoria 3 years ago when she was in high school.
How did it work out? Do you still have AGP? Found a nice pseudo-boyfriend?

>>8154445
>mice pseudo-boyfriend
kinky

>>8154138
What's your orientation right now?

How is your life now vs then?

Did you have issues like depression or social anxiety before and how did they change?

Do you pass?

How is your love/sex life?

>>8153889
Thread is doing well, some negative people here and there but overall ok

>>8154202
well you could go the gym, grow beard and stuff like that to cover your twinkhood but if you really enjoy girly stuff I guess there might be something else underneath

>>8154077
yeah, because Blanchart's model didn't quiete fit all the cases that we find in reallity. But I'm not an expert so I couldn't really tell you why

So is sissy stuff AGP?

>>8154562
Very. It's the first item in the AGP starter pack.

>>8155002
What's in the Collector Edition?

>>8155551
SRS

So what's the difference between being transsexual or having gender dysphoria and this? Is it all the same thing? Sorry if I seem ignorant I'm genuinely curious =)

>>8156033
get out of here you ignorant fuck

just kidding, you should read the OP, the bottom line is that AGP is being attracted to the thought of yourself as a female, so it very often implies transsexuality but not always gender disphoria
At the beggining, some old man invented the term to describe heterosexual transexual, but the definition has kinda evoluted nowadays

>>8156103
Interesting, I mean the thought of me being female does turn me on, for various reasons though. I'll have to look more into this

>>8156115
What you need to identify is wether or not it's linked to having pleasure (read sex) or if it's just a constant feeling, if it's both or only the second one you should check out /mtfg

>>8156033
AGP is one of the causes of dysphoria and being trans. But you can have AGP without dysphoria (although you might get that later) and not all dysphoria is caused by AGP (the alternative is called HSTS).

>>8156115
Hang around! Why does it turn you on?

>>8156222
Idk, maybe thinking about having curves being lusted after by men and being submissive.

>>8156147
Mines always been pretty constant, it's not linked specifically by arousal

>>8156263
I guess there might be more than just agp than, but if you're currently fine I guess that's okay

I guess some could say you should transition as soon as possible before you get actual disphoria, but hey it's not my field

>>8156294
Indeed, I mean I've wanted to transition for a while. I just don't have the means or support to do it. I'm
22 now so I feel like it's about too late for me =\

>>8156147
>wether or not it's linked to having pleasure (read sex) or if it's just a constant feeling
Is there really a strict divide?

>/mtfg
That's the worst place to go. /tgg is better for questioning.

>>8156307
I feel trapped in my body honestly and there is not much I can do about it =|

>>8156311
>Is there really a strict divide?
I think there is a strict devide between the two as it's really two different things that can cumulate
Here is my opinion : wanting to be a girl when aroused is linked to pleasure, a personal and temporary (that fluctuates) thing. Wanting to be a girl on the long run is more of a "social unrest", and dissociation between the body and mind
I couldn't say it's true, but that's how I feel about it

>>8156339
you should definitly check /tgg

I never thought im a tranny when I was a young boy since I thought its a fetish. But now that im 25, I am almost suicidal from gender dysphoria.
Is there a way to cure AGP or cure dysphoria without transitioning?

>>8156548
No, there isn't. You repress till middle age, and then break and become a creepy monstrous hon.

>>8156548
AGP is part of your sexuality. It can't be cured any more than being gay or straight can.

The dysphoria that causes it might be relieved by things short of transition. Try anything you find fulfilling and anything that indulges the AGP.

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>>8154448
>How did it work out?
Pretty well, but there were a lot of hard things along the way. One of the toughest things was dealing with old friends who didn't adjust properly to the change and kept treating me like a guy. My parents did this too for a while. Eventually, I cut ties with both and now I live stealth and am attending uni.

>Do you still have AGP?
A little, but typically I'd rather get off to het porn or some kind of fetish thing like BDSM. I remember I looked at those X-Change threads over on /gif/ recently out of curiousity and I was like "huh, yeah, not interested"

>Found a nice pseudo-boyfriend?
Dated a guy (who I was out to, because I'm pre-op) for like 7 months or so, but that's all.

>>8154479
>What's your orientation right now?
Mostly straight, but occasionally I might find a girl on girl gif hot or something. I typically don't seek that kind of shit out, it's more like if it happens to pop up on my tumblr dashboard or something then I might get off to it

>How is your life now vs then?
Very different overall.
Before:
-Edgy twink
-lonely, few friends
-addicted to video games and internet
-only social interaction is cs:go
-afraid to talk to people irl
Now:
-makeup/clothes shopping with female friends
-getting hit on by attractive guys
-still browse online communities, but less than I used to. also, I've moved on to tumblr somewhat
-420 all day erry day. also, acid
-play acoustic guitar and write songs
-shifted focus from STEM to communications

>Did you have issues like depression or social anxiety before and how did they change?
I was super depressed before transition, and honestly thought I wasn't going to make it until 25. I just couldn't enjoy anything in my day to day life. Sometimes, I would try to cry myself to sleep, but couldn't because it's hard to cry on T.

>Do you pass?
Yep. Lucked out in that I had a fem face and frame pre-transition. Didn't even need FFS. Also, I was like 16 when I started, so that helped too.

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>>8156700
>>8154479
>How is your love/sex life?
Mixed. It's definitely improved a lot since before transition, as now I can actually orgasm during sex whereas before I was never quite "there" mentally when I hooked up. The main issue is that I've gained a lot of genital dysphoria recently and it's interfering with my ability to feel relaxed when I'm by myself or with another person. Getting SRS pretty soon though, so hopefully that should fix that.

Sorry it took me so long to answer your questions. I passed out shortly after my original posting. I'm probably going to take acid in a bit, but I'll still be here for the next couple hours or so. Ask away, I'm on an anonymous image board so it really doesn't matter what I say

>>8156700

>communications

I heard that was a meme degree but I have no idea what it is. What is it?

Also, how did you start HRT? Self-medding or legal methods? What made you decide to transition if you weren't dysphoric? When did you go full time?

>>8156700
>Pretty well, but there were a lot of hard things along the way.
Cutting ties with people is sad How did it happen with your parents? How did they and others treat you as a guy?

What else has been hard? What's been rewarding?

>A little, but typically I'd rather get off to het porn or some kind of fetish thing like BDSM.
How did the AGP fade? How do you feel about the change? Why do you think your tastes changed?

Did you used to be into girls?

>Dated a guy (who I was out to, because I'm pre-op
How did he feel about it? After SRS will you stay stealth even in relationships? Are you out to anyone else?

>>8156780
>The main issue is that I've gained a lot of genital dysphoria recently
Why?

How did you manage to start at 16?

How important is passing?

Finally, any advice for AGPs?

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question, since i cant find anything online

is there a name for reverse agp?

>>8156913

You mean arousal to being a man? Autoandrophilia.

>>8156919
thanks pal

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>>8156874
>I heard that was a meme degree but I have no idea what it is. What is it?
Teaches you how to write, speak, communicate properly. You can use it for things like public relations, journalism, HR, or new media development. It's pretty practical as far as humanities degrees go.

>Also, how did you start HRT?
Legal. I had to go a special children's gender clinic in a certain North American city to get it though, so it took a while. Kind of wish I would have started DIY before that.

>What made you decide to transition if you weren't dysphoric?
I was so depressed that I just didn't care anymore and decided to follow my dream of being a female, even it was just a fetish.

>When did you go full time?
1 year into HRT, so two years ago.

>>8156895
>Cutting ties with people is sad
Yeah, it's been by far the hardest part of my transition.

>How did it happen with your parents?
I still keep in touch with them occasionally, but I've just distanced myself somewhat from them and most of my family.

>How did they and others treat you as a guy?
Mostly subtle things, like when they would say "I didn't know x was gay" when I would talk about a guy hitting on me. They would also act really surprised when I would talk about something stereotypically feminine like doing makeup, but would act normal when I would talk about something more masculine like vidya. Frequently, they would use deadname and pronouns when referring to me.

>What else has been hard?
I had a minor case of BDD for a little while where I thought I was ugly even though I was getting hit on all the time. Also, I often get dysphoria about not having some of the same social experiences as other girls and not having my period (oddly enough).

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>>8156926
It helps if you study the classical languages like Latin and Greek

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>>8157028
>>8156895
>What's been rewarding?
Having a feminine body is awesome. I love my new boobs, face, and curves. It's a really nice feeling to wake up and see two mounds, strands of hair, and a cute top in front of my face. There also are a lot of upsides to being treated like a girl, such as the lack of pressure to be alpha and getting free shit from guys. Getting doors opened for me is also nice, although it was kind of odd at first.

>How did the AGP fade?
Overtime, I started finding the old captions and comics I used to fap to less and less appealing, while finding irl guys more and more appealing. It wasn't really something I actively thought about on the conscious level, and sometimes I would be shocked by the new feelings. I remember one moment where I looked around in my high school classroom thinking "when did all these guys get so hot?"

>How do you feel about the change?
It fucks with me on a certain level, but my new sexuality is also a million times more rewarding than anything I experienced before.

>Why do you think your tastes changed?
I honestly have no idea. Hormones maybe? Or possibly my body getting synced up with the girl in my mind? I'm sorry, I really have no idea beyond that.

>Did you used to be into girls?
Sort of. I always identified as somewhat bi, but I definitely leaned towards girls pre-transition. I even had a "girlfriend" for like a year, but like I said earlier, I could never get off when we had sex. I think I was mostly just into the idea of being a girl and was more or less asexual beyond that.

>How did he feel about it?
He was shocked at first when I told him, but he eventually came to terms with it and was super supportive. I dumped him due to unrelated reasons.

>After SRS will you stay stealth even in relationships?
That is the plan. I know some people will say I'm terrible for doing this, but I really don't care lol

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>>8157115
>>8156895
>Are you out to anyone else?
My family, and my old friends whom I don't talk to anymore. No one in my current life though.

>Why?
I think it's because it's the only part of my body currently out of alignment with female. It's only when it becomes unusual that you notice it, you know?

>How did you manage to start at 16?
I had been into gender erotica since 12, and four years was enough for the interest to progress to the point that I was going to transition. Also, parents were supportive enough to let me start HRT.

>How important is passing?
It's everything. If you don't pass, people won't treat like you a woman. Hell, if you're not stealth people usually won't treat you like a woman imo.

>Finally, any advice for AGPs?
Do you what you want, even if there isn't necessarily a legitimate reason for doing so. You've only got one life, so you might as well just fullfill whatever desires you have.

>>8157028
>Also, I often get dysphoria about not having some of the same social experiences as other girls
Which experiences?

>>8157115
>Having a feminine body is awesome. I love my new boobs, face, and curves. It's a really nice feeling to wake up and see two mounds, strands of hair, and a cute top in front of my face.
What do you like about it? Is there AGP in your happiness about it? Is it what cis girls feel?

>There also are a lot of upsides to being treated like a girl, such as the lack of pressure to be alpha and getting free shit from guys.
What in particular? When do you get free things?

>It fucks with me on a certain level,
In what way?

>my new sexuality is also a million times more rewarding than anything I experienced before.
How so? Would you prefer to have the AGP on top of what you have now?

What do you like about guys sexually?

>I know some people will say I'm terrible for doing this, but I really don't care lol
I don't think it's terrible. Why won't you though? What differences would it make to a relationship with a guy?

>I think it's because it's the only part of my body currently out of alignment with female. It's only when it becomes unusual that you notice it, you know?
So you strongly identify as a girl now despite your motive for transition, and it throws off your identity.

>I had been into gender erotica since 12, and four years was enough for the interest to progress to the point that I was going to transition.
Can you go into a bit of detail about how it went from discovering it to deciding to transition?

What gender stuff specifically did you like?

How gender conforming were you as a boy until 16 and now gender conforming as a girl are you now?

>Hell, if you're not stealth people usually won't treat you like a woman imo.
How will they treat you? You mentioned your family and old friends, but they knew you as a boy. How did the bf you came out to treat you differently once he knew?

How did you stop talking to your old friends?

>>8157180
>>8157278
And thank you very much for answering all these questions and sharing your experiences and giving advice.

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>>8157278
>Which experiences?
Not having the chance to grow up as a girl and experience my childhood that way really gets me. More specifically, I always feel upset over the fact that I didn't receive very much affection from my father growing up, but I guess that's kind of common among women. I also just kind of awkwardly nod whenever my female friends start talking about periods, and that always makes me feel like an outsider.

If I could take a pill that would make me forget I was ever male and would manufacture memories of being a cis girl, I would.

>What do you like about it? Is there AGP in your happiness about it? Is it what cis girls feel?
It's just nice. There's no rational explanation for it, but it fullfills something deep inside me.

>Is there AGP in your happiness about it?
It doesn't really turn me on, if that's what you're asking. It used to, but now I usually just feel happy about being sexy, or possibly a little aroused if I know it's for a guy.

>Is it cis girls feel?
Maybe. What do cis girls feel?

>What in particular?
People (guys especially) see you as something to be coddled and protected rather than as a competitor. For example, if I was ever not capable at something as a guy, people would make fun of me, but now people try to help me.

>When do you get free things?
If a guy is hitting on me he might buy me a coffee or something. Little things usually.

>In what way?
It's just strange to realize how malleable your brain is, and it's even stranger when you realize that you have no control over it. I would have never thought that something as integral as my sexuality could change so easily.

>How so?
I can actualize my fantasies a lot more since I mostly get off to real things as opposed to the mostly imaginative things I liked before.

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>>8158300
>>8157278
>Would you prefer to have the AGP on top of what you have now?
Nah, having AGP was super isolating. It's nice to be able hook up with a guy and enjoy that instead of only being able to get off by masturbating to my imagination.

>What do you like about guys sexually?
So many things lol. I love their strong chests, angular faces, broad shoulders... I'm also a huge sucker for short hair and stubble. Dicks and cum are both great as well, and I really love giving head. Being dominated is a wonderful feeling too, and it's nice to just relax while letting a guy fuck you senseless, knowing that he's in control of what happens and will take care of you.

>Why won't you though? What differences would it make to a relationship with a guy?
People treat you differently when they know you're trans. See my response to your last question.

>So you strongly identify as a girl now despite your motive for transition, and it throws off your identity.
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it, thanks for making sense out of weed brain.

>Can you go into a bit of detail about how it went from discovering it to deciding to transition?
I was always turned on by transformation, and that naturally progressed to TG when I was about 12 or so. Eventually, enough getting off to porn like that made me want to experience the fantasy for real, so I transitioned.

>What gender stuff specifically did you like?
I remember having the body of a woman really got me off. I didn't care too much for the clothes or the social aspect, and I can't recall ever cross dressing, at least not regularly.

>>8157180

that fucking pic...

all my daddy boners

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>>8157278
>How gender conforming were you as a boy until 16 and now gender conforming as a girl are you now?
I was pretty GNC. I had one of those fag haircuts where the top of my hair was dyed bleach blonde and the rest was shaved, and I always dressed super androgynously. I remember girls used to frequently remark on how they liked talking to me because they thought I was pretty in touch with my feminine side.

>how gender conforming as a girl are you now?
Sort of conforming? Idk, I'm not like a sorority girl or anything, but I'm not quite sure I would call myself a tomboy either. Hopefully "in the middle" is an okay response.

>How will they treat you?
I was out to this one particular group of people who didn't go to my Uni for a little while after I transitioned. At first things were okay, but then one of them got angry with me and he started calling me by male pronouns. In my view, if someone isn't going to treat me as a woman unconditionally, then they aren't treating me the same as they would a cis woman.

>How did the bf you came out to treat you differently once he knew?
He was actually totally fine, but that is the exception imo.

>How did you stop talking to your old friends?
I just stopped replying to texts when they asked me to hang out, and stopped going to our weekly get togethers. Eventually people just kind of forget about you if you do that for long enough.

>>8158362
>all my daddy boners
I KNOW!!! ^_^ I'm not sure if you picked up on this from reading my posts, but I have some pretty intense daddy issues, and guys like 76 are super attractive to me. It's just so hot to have a guy be a loving authority figure and look out for you like that.

>>8154138
post face, also did you do spiro or cypro

>>8158400
Spiro, and no can do señor. That would sort of defeat the purpose of being stealth. You're just going to have to decide for yourself if what I'm saying is genuine.

>>8158440
Stealth is passing and not telling anyone? Well how do you date then? if you tell a hetero male you're a trap you can get killed

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>>8158460
>Well how do you date then?
Get SRS and don't bring it up.

>if you tell a hetero male you're a trap you can get killed
That's why you make sure they don't find out... Also why you conceal carry and bring pepper spray, knife, etc.

>>8132608
>Read this thread about an AGP who didn't have dysphoria but transitioned anyway, successfully, and see what you think.
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/5788347/

That is an extremely interesting thread. I wish there were more accounts from AGPs like her.

>I think that even if you can cope with being a guy but would feel significantly better being a transgirl, then it might be worth transitioning if you can pull it off and you should consider it very seriously.
I agree in theory, but part of the serious consideration must be the risks of the worst outcomes of transition. She said you must be prepared not to pass. She had FFS and does pass and finds it worthwhile, but for a lot of AGPs not passing might be worse than trying to cope as a guy and if they don't her positive account won't apply to them.

An AGP might be significantly better off as a passing transgirl but the risk of not passing and other costs or risked costs to transition should be considered too.

>The whole "woman trapped in a man's body" thing is mostly just a misleading way to explain things to normies, and doesn't actually apply to most MtFs.
It would be nice to think of a better way to explain it.

>>8156913
pga

I constantly masturbate to forced feminization stories and captions, like to dress like a girl every 2 weeks, and am growing my hair currently. I feel sorta dead inside and have been steadily growing addicted to vidya and internet boards, to the point were i dont study or draw or play music anymore, i have no friends and am averse to talking to people.

My biggest fantasy is to crossplay at a con or wear lolita while surrounded by large groups of people. In highschool my biggest sexual fantasy was forced to attend an all girls school and having to wear a cutesy uniform.

Havent transitioned, likely never will, i dont think i have dysphoria except for when i crossdress and look into the mirror, the rest of the time i appreciate my semi masculine face and body.

>>8159286
you're probably fine. I would suggest you try to fix your other issues first and then if all fails transition, but i dont think theres enough evidence to say that internet addiction/social anxiety or even depression steam from AGP. I mean, there are tons of AGPs who dont suffer from any of that and live just fine, so you must look into solving ur issues in a different way,

And this goes to all of you, transition is a very big step and only should be used as a last resource against otherwise normie problems (ie low self esteem, low confidence levels, anxiety etc..)

I hope it all works out for you buddy

>>8159433
Thanks god there's always killing yourself. Easy solution to all of your problems.

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Do you fap to your female persona?

>>8153332
Yes. Definetly.
Kill me.

>>8159286

I've spoken to quite a lot of people like you and me and they all (including me) have the same fantasy if being forced to go to an all girl's school, I think the forced part makes it more sexual and arousing

>>8159286
you need this : https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Marcus-Aurelius/dp/148193015X/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1492951972&sr=1-1-fkmr1

>>8159541
I did, but I stoppe, idk why

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>>8160409

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>>8160416

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>>8160421
I have a lot of these, and they all make me feel like shit

>>8157180
>How important is passing?
>It's everything. If you don't pass, people won't treat like you a woman. Hell, if you're not stealth people usually won't treat you like a woman imo.
It all comes tumbling down tumbling down tumbling down..

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anyone else able to relieve disphoria a little by looking at feminine males? i remember reading beserk and wanting to be like Griffith even though he was a male, and can say that he is the only male character in any medium who makes me feel like this. Think i'll be able to somehow relieve my transgender issues by just becoming feminine enough?

>>8157115

>That is the plan. I know some people will say I'm terrible for doing this, but I really don't care lol

I don't know if you plan on getting married, but how are you going to keep it up at that point?

>>8160425
pretty nice, I should go more on instagram
those are just pictures, there's no need to feel bad about it

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>>8160675
I don't think I have dysphoria but yes recently I've been looking at lots of fashion stuff just because it makes me feel really good to know I have options and see other people doing it

I don't want to be a woman my ideal would be a feminine male but there's an overlap because crossdressing is part of it so its related I guess

>>8161472
yeah i mean with good shots and facial expression many men would look good on a photoshoot for womens fashion

>>8159541
no, i cry to her

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There is no such thing as AGP.
You're all deluded.

>>8161992
t. AGP

>>8161992
Moap tells himself that every night before going to sleep. Blanchard is your daddy.

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>>8162020
Herself*

>>8162033
That was not a typo Moap.
Come to daddy blanchard : )

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>>8162062
In the English language we use the pronouns Her and She to refer to females. It's k, we all make mistakes.

>>8161992
Not an argument.

>>8162085
If you people listened to arguments that you'd acknowledge how the psychological community has dismissed Blanchard and considers his theories to be nonsense with a circular premise.

>>8162069
In the english language we also use the pronouns he and him to refer to males. It's ok, we all make mistakes. Daddy blanchard forgives you hon.

also
>muh pronouns
kek

>>8162091
Feel free to quote their arguments.

Argument from authority is not an argument.

>>8162091
>psychological community
>not parroting the politically correct media who uses the term trans to refer to any male in women's clothing so they don't piss the LGBT community off
Tbh that's all it really is, now that Donald Trump is president he and the GOP are starting to slowly dismantle the framework set in place by Obama and other officials to protect the LGBT community. This means people who usually would have to agree with the politically correct or be shamed would now not be forced to, this includes doctors and psychologists. Blanchard knows this that's why he's starting to come out of hiding and speak about it.

He was never really disproven anyway, in fact his work was featured in multiple scientific journals at the time and his agp theory was in the DSM for awhile too. It's just politics play a very strong role in matters like this as we're now seeing with many LGBT issues.

>>8161992
>>8162033
>>8162069
You get this butthurt over others denying your identity but are happy to deny ours?

>>8162169
Moap is just being defensive because agp describes them and that makes them feel fake and thus they lash out. I've seen this behaviour in many mtf's and some of which eventually came to terms with it.

Moap we'll be here for you when you come out, you're not alone.

>>8162183
>I've seen this behaviour in many mtf's and some of which eventually came to terms with it.
How did they come to terms with it? What was their attitude afterwards?

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>>8160664
passing is hard b/c of male skeleton
all trannies have them

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>>8162130
>>8162151
Not them but Blanchard was debunked by countless arguments in countless iterations of this thread. His theory is simply unscientific because it posits something that can't be shown to be true or false. This is why social sciences are a joke in general.

>>8164914
Sorry, I meant
>social "sciences"

>>8164936
HAHAHAHA

>>8164936
>social science is a joke
>psychology is a social science

>>8164914
>Blanchard is false because <all social sciences are entirely false>

>>8164618
no thats not true
ftms have female skeletons

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>>8150594
You guys are kimochi warui.

>>8166586
how are we any more creepy/disgusting than homos/cishets/hstses?

>>8166387
It is considered to be one and suffers from all of the same problems.

>>8166431
No, his theories are just lacking in rigor in the same way most social science theories lack in rigor. You can't prove or disprove his hypothesis, which makes it little more than speculation. The conclusion does not follow from the data.

>>8167595
>The conclusion does not follow from the data.
What conclusion ever does?

>>8167656
The conclusions of studies in fields where observing rigor is easier. Mostly STEM. To be fair to your position some physics papers are highly hypothetical and similarly unverifiable but the difference is that the people who write those papers typically have the decency to admit as such instead of claiming their conclusions to be facts. SocSci researchers somehow decided that since proving causality is way harder for them they're somehow exempt from having to do so.

>>8167814
You can't answer the question.

You have invented a double standard for facts you don't like, such as the typology.

>>8167862
I just did and you ignored it. A paper about physics or mathematics or engineering directly shows its conclusion to be true. Blanchard's papers do not show a direct link from his data to the typology being true. The typology is one possible explanation for his data, with many other equally plausible explanations for the data existing. Looking at a set of data and creating a nice narrative which fits it does not prove that said narrative is correct while other narratives that fit the data are incorrect.

>>8167879
>A paper about physics or mathematics or engineering directly shows its conclusion to be true.
No, it doesn't.

>The typology is one possible explanation for his data, with many other equally plausible explanations for the data existing.
This is true for literally all data.

>>8167862
>>8167879
Let me explain in a way you might understand: suppose I return home and discover that one of the plates I've left on the kitchen table has somehow found its way to the floor and shattered. I know for a fact that I've left my cat in the house and that the cat could've potentially knocked the plate off of the table. My theory supports the data available to me. Can I go ahead and say that the cat knocked the plate off of the table? Have I established this to be a fact?

>>8167923
>No, it doesn't.
I'm sorry but you're just flat-out wrong.

>This is true for literally all data.
If you empirically demonstrate something to be true then you can't support alternative explanations for the process.

>>8161992
Both agps here and the 'tru trans' on this board agree on heading towards the same mutual end goal anyway. So whats the fucking difference weather you consider agp real or not. There is no space for the kind of discussion where you overcome your fetish and go back to living as a regular male. So this general may as well be in line of the notion that there is no such thing as agp.

>>8167928
This is a good example of how closed minds lead to false conclusions. You might well consider your theory 'established' as a 'fact' only to be told there's a stray can that's been going in to houses through open windows, or that there's been a spate of burglaries recently, or that your husband visited home from work and forgot to mention it.

These were all possibilities all along that you failed to consider, leaving you 'establishing' the wrong theory as 'fact'.

>>8167960
>If you empirically demonstrate something to be true
Read >>8167928 and then the rest of this post.

>>8169046
I wrote that example. I'm both of the posters you're responding to. This is essentially what most psychology researchers, including Blanchard, do all the time. They take data, see if their theory fits it well and call it a day if it does. The AGP/age of transition/orientation correlations are indisputably real. ETLEs and causality between the factors have not been established by any of the research. In a very real sense we currently can't establish ETLEs to be real because we can't measure what the idea is focused on in any meaningful way.

>>8170529
You've just demonstrated with the simplified example you made up that what you attack him for is true of all science.

>>8170596
You can indisputably demonstrate that a physical principle is true under rigorous lab conditions. You can indisputably prove that a mathematical theorem is true. Most psychological research doesn't prove things in this way. Primarily because it can't. Just because it can't doesn't mean that we have to loosen our standards for scientific evidence. We just have to accept that we can't know some things for now.

One day our understanding of neurology might advance to the point where we can prove or disprove ETLEs. We are not there yet.

>>8170639
>a physical principle
Moving the goalposts. First you claimed it was about the fact, then you failed to come up with an actual example to show any science is different from the typology, your hypothetical example backfired and showed that all science is exactly the same, and now you give up entirely on disputing the *fact* of the typology and try to change the conversation to being about *principles*, i.e. predictions.

Fine then. We agree the fact of ETLEs and the typology are not in dispute.

If you want to dispute the predictions/demonstrable principles of the typology, go ahead and demonstrate they are wrong through counter-examples.

You can't do any better here though because trans research since the typology was proposed all demonstrates it was right all along and proves its predictions.

>>8170681
>Moving the goalposts. First you claimed it was about the fact, then you failed to come up with an actual example to show any science is different from the typology, your hypothetical example backfired and showed that all science is exactly the same, and now you give up entirely on disputing the *fact* of the typology and try to change the conversation to being about *principles*, i.e. predictions.
I hope you understand that you're not fooling anyone but yourself by ignoring all of my arguments and sticking your head in the sand. To argue that physics and psychology are studied with the same rigor is preposterous.

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What the fuck is wrong with you people? The west is so decadent and self indulging, it's too hard to be a man all the time, but you're not gender dysphoric so you realise that being a man SOME of the time is pretty cool?

That's kinda fucked up
Being a man is hard. Being masculine and firm and dependable and enduring is hard - endurance implies hardship, but it makes you masculine. Leadership and steadfastness under pressure. This includes the pressure of life.

I think a lot of you would lose/repress the AGP urges if you did something hard and grueling with your life. Joining the military is crap, but just try going for a camping trip alone, with minimal gear and not a huge amount of food. The hardship of this might get you out of your little internet comfort hugbox and give you perspective, and connecting with nature will help you understand yourself more.

>Muh Empowerment
Are you sure the comfort you get from crossdressing, or wearing a wig, or cutting your dick off isn't just comfort from doing something accepted by this online community? From getting approval from your 'friends' in the hugbox? You should be honest with yourself.

If you want an easier life because you're feeling disillusioned, don't browse pro lgbt sites til you find the right thread talking about whatever snowflake condition you have.
Instead, become a non-entity when you can't face up to the pressures of being masculine. Disregard your appearance or your sexual urge, become a grey-man, become a nothing for a little while, live by yourself and let yourself take some time off from the pressures of the world.

Don't cut your dick off or wear a dress to school, you WILL be more miserable. (unless you have actual gender dysphoria, but even then, counselling and transvestitism is much better for 90% of people than awful, irreversible, ineffective surgery)

>Prove me wrong /lgbt/. Am I just ignorant, and how so? I don't want to give this advice to a real life bro, so correct me here. thankies

>>8170688
Been there had that argument >>8166431

Try again.

>>8170714
>I think a lot of you would lose/repress the AGP urges
"Sacrifice your sexuality and set yourself up to be a hon" isn't a good selling point.

>>8170735
not him, but every guy has these urges to a tiny degree, whether it's a guilty dream you had once and woke up shaking your head, all the way to full transexuals. Human 'masculinity and femininity' are on a spectrum, and so much is dependant on our hormone level at that time


I agree with him tho. To do something like wear women's clothing and act like a woman is such a huge social step, and can make people see you as self indulgent and weak (vices in every culture, probably not a learnt stigma but an actual human virtue/lack of virtue).

I think you should repress the desire to do something that garners such a huge emotional and social toll if it's not that strong, or passing. People tell you not to chop your balls off until you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, but I think it's the same for leaving the house with lipstick and a dress on, it's irreversible and changes your outwardly perceived character forever.

So repress it before you JUST your life, unless you're going to be 100% miserable all the time for being a guy (and remember that a lot of guys are miserable 70% of the time just for existing in this cruel world and not having the easy mode life of a chick, doesn't mean they are transexuals)

>>8170757
>life as fem is easymode
>i should transition
cis girls will tell you it's not worth it if you're ugly

>>8170757
>So repress it before you JUST your life, unless you're going to be 100% miserable all the time for being a guy (and remember that a lot of guys are miserable 70% of the time just for existing in this cruel world and not having the easy mode life of a chick, doesn't mean they are transexuals)
People should accept a life of misery just for being born male rather than face the social toll and vice of daring to deviate from the role men are assigned to play?

>>8170760
cis girls are well-known for being idiots and being liars.

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>>8170765
>implying that their life will be better because their workmates are contractually obliged to be nice to them and will be fired for laughing at them wearing a dress

Bro, it's not the evil patriarchy that makes men laugh at trannies. It's that you can recognise that most trannies have simply given up on the challenge and hardship of being a masculine man, for this promised 'grass is greener' of being a chick.

Girls won't accept you completely, this is clear from the backlash over mixed toilets and the split between feminists who say you're a pretender.

Again, not talking about people with genuine dismorphia. Talking about the concept of a 'man who has given up' because he is weak. Other men recognise this, that's why transvestites are derided by other men, unless they stick up for themselves (and thus continue to show their masculinity and gain respect). Hence the respect for trannies that kick ass and beat up anyone who insults them, and the derision for the pussy who puts on some lipstick and talks in a camp voice.

if you think I'm describing internalised transphobia then you are a little out of touch with the reality of natural masculine and feminine roles, respect and acceptance all over the world, for 20,000 years until the emergence of post-modernism and feminist theory.

>>8170760
nah

you won't get as much attention from boys, true, but you will get approached more often than an intimidating super model

you'll also have more girl friends and a greater acceptance from chicks, because they don't like having a friend who is much prettier than them - girls are fucked up and jealous.

Guys hang out with a really hot guy, and they want to be like him. Girls spurn and outcast a hotter girl than them, i'm guessing pure jealousy

weird eh

>>8170776
>the reality of natural masculine and feminine roles
explain

>>8170714
>>8170757
>>8170776
Don't respond to dim-witted trolls pushing the same decades-old arguments.

>>8170794
As an observer, what do you think about the point in >>8170765 and >>8170776 as a counter-point?

>>8170799
It's bull, as shown by so many AGPs being successful hypermasculine males before transitioning to the shock of everyone around them.

The idea that conforming to the rules expected of you by society is anything but a submissive act is laughable slave morality.

>>8170812
Wait which one's bull and how do those surprise transitions show it?

>>8170816
The "trannies are failed males" narrative people like to push around.

>>8170794
the repressor(s) make more sense then the crazed tranny here>>8170768
>>8170786

>>8170799
or a male can be a non conforming fem guy or andro composite of both masc and fem qualities

statue anon doesn't like weak minded males who jump on tranny train as an out from male

>>8170812
Having a 'boyish haircut' and wearing blue are very different to being masculine

This is evidenced by every culture around the world (minus a couple failed matriarch tribes) having clearly defined and congruent ideas of masculinity and femininity, regardless of their cultural trappings. Some men have long hair and wear skirts, e.g. The Sumerians, some men wear pink and eye liner e.g. Afghanis, but all men and women for the entire existence of civilisation have known the difference between a mother and a father, a hunter and a gatherer, a man and a woman. Prove otherwise and I will genuinely believe you, but unfortunately none of you lgqbt dreamers have any history or anthropological study behind you.

>>8170828
>statue anon doesn't like weak minded males who jump on tranny train as an out from male
wonder why

>>8170832
i want the feminine role, the gatherer, not the hunter.

>>8170832
Modern western cultures, which are more successful than all cultures before them, work differently. The past was not better. Humanity is now better off than it ever was before.

I feel like I'm being brainwashed by malicious people into wanting to look like a girl.

>>8170847
>Evil people have nothing better to do than trying to trick randos into wanting to transition
ayyy

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Being masculine is a gift, for the possibility of what you can achieve with that testosterone and the cooperation and sacrifice of brotherhood, but also a curse, for your disposability, your inability to create a child without vicariously using a woman's womb, your inherent ugliness compared to women and your expected solitary independence.

To reject it and throw away the gifts of masculinity is pathetic. That's why trannies are mocked - no one really cares on a subconscious level what fabric you wrap yourself in, or how you style your hair. They care that you have rejected the gift because you couldn't handle the burden, and so they treat you with scorn because masculinity is needed to build a civilisation and keep women and children safe and from starving.

You can't blame men for scorning pussies, they have an incredibly heavy burden in life. Nor can you blame women for their scorn, for they are simply worried that men will give up on them, and take their position and privileges in society.

t.traditional man who has studied masculinity and femininity in antiquity

>>8170855
Nice misogyny senpai

>>8170852
I don't doubt it. If it's not at a higher level, I can definitely see small groups trying to organize in things like Discord and pull some kind of psyop on weak, vulnerable, lonely people. Whether it's some kind of ideological thing, a political goal, or they just want more girly boys to fuck, I don't know, but I feel it's there. It makes me scared and paranoid.

>>8170855
>your disposability
fuck that

>your expected solitary independence
fuck that

>keep women and children safe and from starving
fuck that

>an incredibly heavy burden in life
fuck that

>worried that men will give up on them, and take their position and privileges in society
fuck them

>>8170857
Not him, but

>Appreciating masculinity is a bad thing

I wish I could appreciate it more and stop wanting to dress up like a girl, but I can't get past this fucking mental block. I hope more people start appreciate it, maybe I won't feel as guilty then.

>>8170858
Then cut yourself off I guess, but given that people like that have existed for thousands of years in various forms and most AGPs start feeling this way when they're little children I doubt this is some massive psyop.

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>>8170845
Is that so? How do you quantify that?
Advanced technology? Men on the moon, great healthcare, loads of food?

What about declining birth rates? Women reporting greater levels of misery than 50 years ago? Suicides skyrocketing?

The Middle East used to be the equivalent of the West, a thousand years ago. They were so advanced, had vast libraries, amazing art and technology, trade with all of the world, life was incredible. When the crusader knights visited, they thought the medicine practiced was magic. Yet they had the same sense of masculinity and femininity as the rest of the world.

It really only is our post modern theory and its popularisation in the last century, and how it is taught to our kids, that has spawned any of this doubt and obfuscation about masculinity and femininity and what they mean to the core fabric of society.

We really shouldn't neglect the past and believe we are something special and exempt from history, this is exactly what every civilisation that has risen and fallen has believed along their path to ruin.

>>8170869
>Women reporting greater levels of misery than 50 years ago?
serves them right for expected men to suffer all this >>8170860

>>8170869
>4chan intellectual trying to sound smart

You don't. Just stop.

>inb4 "haha typical tranny no arguments"

No one is trying to actually argue with you. You just made one long shit post that got you attention. But nobody actually cares about your opinion. Why not leave and talk to people that could actually use your *vast knowledge of antiquity* and superior understanding of how people work.

*tips fedora* just kidding, nice enlightenment my friend. In this moment we are blessed :-)

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>>8170860
You say fuck that, and you want schools to teach fuck that, but you are a rebellious teen or a tiny minority, and your viewpoint is nothing radical or counter-authoritative - it has existed since people became self aware.

There is no authority dictating what masculinity and femininity is, there are no governments in the world deciding what makes a strong man and a good mother, yet these concepts and roles are found in every tribe and civilisation around the world. Do you think it's some oppressive patriarchal decision to make men masculine and women feminine?

No, it's their nature. Reject it if you want, but you'll only be screaming into the wind and making other people miserable by forcing your views on others or in legislation.

>>8170882
t.buttblasted trannie throwing a tantrum instead of self reflecting and giving a measured response

>>8170869
A few people not pertaining to the gender binary doesn't mean that the gender binary will fall apart. It doesn't affect you or anyone else except for the people involved. Now you say that for people with dysphoria it is justified, and then you proceed to say that it isn't for other people. Who this people are is baffling. Maybe it then is sex addicts? Who are you to rule over their sexual inclinations, they have all the rights in the world to follow them, as do you. They won't destroy the fabric of society, being a small minority, and if you're ego is so fragile that you need to be repulsed and act on this repulsion because of a few exceptions, then i wonder if you had any masculinity in the first place. I am sorry that your values seem antiquated, but this comes as a sad result of capitalism and modern warfare, which make agression inviable as well as making more socially oriented or intelligence driven jobs more profitable than the masculinity required to survive in ancient times. I do value masculinity but you are targeting the wrong people here.

>>8170869
>Advanced technology? Men on the moon, great healthcare, loads of food?
That and higher levels of literacy, the average citizen being much more intelligent than in the past (see the Flynn effect), radically increased productivity on a societal scale, aggregate wealth unmatched by anything in the past and people being more decent in general.

>What about declining birth rates?
Birth rates decline with education. This is a good sign.

>Women reporting greater levels of misery than 50 years ago?
Women 50 years ago were scarcely listened to so I have my doubts about the veracity of those older reports.

>Suicides skyrocketing?
Among which demographics?

>The Middle East used to be the equivalent of the West, a thousand years ago. They were so advanced, had vast libraries, amazing art and technology, trade with all of the world, life was incredible. When the crusader knights visited, they thought the medicine practiced was magic. Yet they had the same sense of masculinity and femininity as the rest of the world.
And? People practiced slavery for thousands of years and had developed cultural theories about slaves and masters. We still abolished slavery.

>It really only is our post modern theory and its popularisation in the last century, and how it is taught to our kids, that has spawned any of this doubt and obfuscation about masculinity and femininity and what they mean to the core fabric of society.
I'd call this cultural advancement. Abandonment of inaccurate abstractions, coming hand-in-hand with the abandonment of superstitious beliefs in gods and demons.

>We really shouldn't neglect the past and believe we are something special and exempt from history, this is exactly what every civilisation that has risen and fallen has believed along their path to ruin.
Empires generally rise on the back of progress and innovation, not a primitivist urge to freeze society in its track.

>>8170884
Nature can be transcended. It is the nature of humanity to transcend its animalistic origins, forming unnatural structures such as nations.

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>>8170889
t. guy who goes on 4chan to have intellectual arguments but can't accept when nobody gives a fuck

Hahaha just kidding m8

t. enlightened male seeking to school non-enlightened males

You're doing god's work anon xD.

>>8170894
Well, who are you to tell me I'm evil for questioning the majority of trannies today? For questioning the sharp rise in trannies since they started to appear cool on MTV? Who are you to teach my kids there are no gender roles and masculinity and femininity doesn't exist? Who are you to sit by and let that happen?

You're right about one thing, masculinity and femininity isn't going away in the rest of the world. Masculine men and women will always exist in "backwards and unenlightened" societies, aka every land except the west, and these lands are often our competitors. So that's good - we loose the gender differentiation that causes social cohesion and progress, and get out performed by the rest of the world, lose our wealth, and then it doesn't matter if you wear a dress or speak like a queen, because you'll be living in poverty with the rest of us in our great progressive enlightenment

>>8170913
>catastrophizing

>>8170884
>but you are a rebellious teen or a tiny minority,
then the vast majority don't deserve my servitude or my loyalty.

>and making other people miserable
then that's what they deserve.

>it's their nature
then it's their nature to deserve their misery.

>>8170913
Increased acceptance causes more people to come out instead of repressing.
Gender is partially rooted in biology and is partially socially constructed. Gender roles are mostly socially constructed.

>Rest of the world is a shithole
>Doesn't hold ideology
>Your corner holds the ideology and is successful
whoa what a coincidence the rest of the world has it right tho we gotta learn from successful nations like Egypt and Russia and Chad.

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>>8170900
T.history denier

The hubris to think we're the best while ignoring the inconvenient side effects of our progress. That's the same mentality Americans have, when they get all patriotic and ignore/forgive warmongering and corruption.

Just because we have more ease and comfort doesn't mean we're going in the right direction for our spiritual health, i.e. The ease of mind and social cohesion of being comfortable in your own skin. In the last 10 years the number of gender confused, sexuality confused kids has skyrocketed, and we've had gay rights for decades. Confusion isn't good. Questioning is fine and healthy but after questioning, you usually find an answer, not end up in a state of confusion.

That doesn't sound like a positive and healthy soiciety that we teach to our children, does it? I genuinely don't think so, you guys might tho

>>8170924
>The west is the best and everyone else are literally as bad as Chad niggers

What de fug

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>>8170937
cringe

how is it possible to make an agp thread worse

>>8170923
You want to impose your fringe rebellious views as teaching to little kids?

You want them to suffer the misery and confusion you went through?

Pretty fucked up

I've heard things about LGBT being higher IQ than cishets, but higher IQ = more prone to psycopathy or sociopathy, this might explain why you want to JUST little kids, and ban anyone from speaking out about it

>>8170913
Im not against gender roles, just against shitting on the people who don't follow them.

You can teach your kids about masculinity all you want, but if you notice one of your kids is a massive faggot and has innate feminine tendencies i don't see how it'd be good to shit on his nature and turn him into a sad repressor.

>>8170937
Just as secularism has allowed people to more openly question God we're now at an age where social norms allow people to at last more openly question gender. This is good and right. This is how you get answers.

>>8170960
This is what you get when you allow people to believe in logically inconsistent bullshit without calling them out desu

>>8170937
>hey we have it pretty good now, right? Like better than in the past with all the diseases and bad literacy and all that

>OH WOW ARE YOU simply IGNORING all the problems we currently have?

You're shit at debating for someone who came into this thread to debate his shit standpoint.

>>8170966
you told me it's in their nature to deserve it.

you told me to suffer for the sake of others.

your judgement, not mine.

why don't you want others to suffer what you want me to suffer?

can you just stop debating this person it's got nothing to do with the thread idk and there's no new revelations to be had on this topic that haven't come up in the last 50 years

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>>8170924
Gender is bullshit and the only study into it was by a paedo doctor who vastrated a little boy and raised him as a little girl, but the boy still turned out as a man when he grew up, rendering the concept of gender as taught completely false.

Gender roles are a natural expression of a human's traits and tendencies. Being a lumberjack is a masculine gender role because more it's a role that attracts those with muscles, higher testosterone, environment of comradery, and there's a high risk of dying, which men seem drawn to.
Raising a baby at home requires a caring, emotionally supportive human, with delicate hands and breasts, hence being a stay at home mom is a feminine role.

None of these roles were dictated by a government (except soldiers and police, historically). In the west women have always been free to work and own land. They chose their path and men chose 'manly' paths because that is how people gravitate towards a role - organically

>>8170984
>implying that's not also true for AGP itself (although on a shorter timescale)
but people keep discussing it anyhow

>>8170989
>In the west women have always been free to work and own land
>In the west women have always been free to work and own land
>In the west women have always been free to work and own land
>In the west women have always been free to work and own land
>In the west women have always been free to work and own land
>In the west women have always been free to work and own land

>>8170993
It's not, we share our personal AGP experiences and learn from each other and help newcomers understand AGP when they didn't know what they were.

>>8170983
>drifting off into this pseudo-philosophical bullshit

Lol. You kinda lost your thread. This got nothing to do with anything you were originally saying. But some easy argument where you can pretend to be smart eh?

Absolutely intellectual.

>>8171000
You could tell that was a cuck post from the cuck picture.

@8170993
/agpg/ - AGP General

AGP questions and answers
>Thoughts and feels
>Help, advice, guidance
>Be cozy and chill out
>Share hot girls you wish you were

>>8171002
All of that is useful and, not coincidentally, has nothing to do with the typology.

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>>8170972
But shitting on people is natural, and stops more people from not following them and society from fucking JUSTing itself into oblivion and falling apart. So don't blame transphobes, is all I'm saying. Grow a thick skin and be compassionate as to why someone wouldn't automatically treat you with respect for differing from the gender roles and masculinity that built the society they inhabit

>>8170981
You confused my post with someone else's
I said we're no different than other societies who have been 'progressive' and fallen, civilisation is a rise and fall, an ebb and flow, and if you think we're impervious or better, u dum and need to read more.

>>8170983
I'd rather you didn't suffer. But there are less of you than there are cishets. I want the least amount of people to suffer, so if it's teach your gender theory and cause them to suffer, or teach their theory and leave you to work it out for yourself and potentially suffer, it's a clear answer. Minimise suffering tbqh

>>8170984
Ah yeah, tell people to stop talking to me, that's cool and not controlling

>>8171012
>But shitting on people is natural, and stops more people from not following them and society from fucking JUSTing itself into oblivion and falling apart. So don't blame transphobes, is all I'm saying. Grow a thick skin and be compassionate as to why someone wouldn't automatically treat you with respect for differing from the gender roles and masculinity that built the society they inhabit
Fucking lol. Nah I'm gonna keep exerting political pressure to push you to the margin and make my ideology dominant rather than rolling over and submitting.

not sure what's particularly masculine about this behavior

>>8171020
Mansplaining is the pinnacle of masculinity.

>>8170984
this. let's report his posts because they are spam in this thread.

go make your own thread >>8171003 for your grandiose bull. instead of ruining ours with this shit.

if i ever ask myself if an action will make someone suffer, i'll remember what you taught me.

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/agpg/ - AGP General

AGP questions and answers
>Thoughts and feels
>Help, advice, guidance
>Be cozy and chill out
>Share hot girls you wish you were

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>>8171000
For a very long time. Tell me at what stage in western history women couldn't earn money and own property and land? This isn't the Middle East - even in 500 BC in Ancient Greece women had better property rights than most of the Middle East

>>8171003
That wasn't me. I write in spaced paragraphs

>>8171018
Then don't be surprised by the backlash. Radical cishets are going to be a lot more effective and brutal than radical trannies. You are also breeding a huge amount of resentment for the nice trannies that don't want to push their ideology on to kids and force new laws, so grats.

>>8171022
Did you just assume my fucking gender?
Actually I'll tell you. I'm an ex trannie who woke up one day, thanked the divines I still had my stone and pillars, and took on the burden of being the gender I was born as.
It made me realise you fucks are just attracting men when they're low and feeling confused, and persuading them into JUSTing their lives when all they need is some time off from humanity itself.
Again, not to dispute actual gender disphoria, and the tiny percentage of trannies who actually have it

>>8171044
>Actually I'll tell you. I'm an ex trannie who woke up one day, thanked the divines I still had my stone and pillars, and took on the burden of being the gender I was born as.
Oh, that explains everything. Get well soon honey. Repressing won't help.

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>>8171052
Good luck with the gender disphoria, if you actually have it! It can be a devastating thing to be trapped inside the wrong body, and to have the brain chemistry of a female!

Or you just want to wear a dress and get attention, and not have to work construction or be asked to lift things, and there's even a chance you'll become famous for being catty! Or you might even get featured on MTV!

Good luck with it all 'honey', see how long you last. How long was Katelyn Jenner a chick?

>>8171055
>What is Europe (clue: not located in America)
>suffrage is the same as right to self determination, self sufficiency and property purchase and inheritance

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lol i just came to look at grils I want to look like and now I'm questioning if I even want to be a girl or if I'm just not self confident enough

Thanks trump

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>>8171069
Being a guy is tough bro, I feel you

Try getting out into nature, forgetting any modern theory and see how you really feel, away from the Internet, caffeine and sleepless nights. Your hormones are probably fucked from poor sleep, little exercise, diet etc.

It might be as simple as camping out, hiking, stumbling across a field of horses and thinking 'I identify more with the stallions than the mares' or vice versa

Either way get some perspective that isn't filtered through post modern bullshit once in a while

>tfw hon territory due to age and genetics
For how long do I have to live in order to benefit for futuristic dehonifying technology?

>>8171087
Anything to say for this? >>8171123

>>8153332
Really fucks with your self esteem

>>8171171
I think we all deserve daddy's cummies once in a while

Harmless but dumb advice, not actively mean or derogatory to women - encourages patience with a spouse, not weird games or abuse. So average advice

>>8170714
>The hardship of this might get you out of your little internet comfort hugbox
>I didn't live harsh situations
You don't know who I am or what I've been through, what do you know ?
>Are you sure the comfort you get from [...] You should be honest with yourself.
I am thank you, I started those things before going on lgbt, doing such things is a pretty strong act, you don't do it just by social pressure created by some people on the internet
>Instead, become a non-entity when you can't face up to the pressures of being masculine. Disregard your appearance or your sexual urge, become a grey-man, become a nothing for a little while, live by yourself and let yourself take some time off from the pressures of the world.
That's something I can stand for, but again you don't know me and you don't know what's good for me, or what I suffer from.


Your analysis is nice, but you should take in consideration two things :
1) Some people are ok with having agp and live there lives as they wish
2) You don't know in particular who we are, what we do and more important why we do it
3) The solution isn't as simple as you think it is

But some solution you give are kinda interresting, so there's that

>>8170855
>Being masculine is a gift
It's as much a gift as being feminine or being a cat, it's nice you did some history but you should have done some philosophy as well
>>8171044
>For a very long time. Tell me at what stage in western history women couldn't earn money and own property and land? This isn't the Middle East - even in 500 BC in Ancient Greece women had better property rights than most of the Middle East
actually in france, debut of the XIX
>>8171087
I'll assume you're the same guy from above; some of your opinions are okay, but you seem so sure of yourself even though you merely don't know anything about him or his life and might be giving him bad advice or things that could fuck him up
Things that might work for you might not work for him

>>8172241
>>8172276
Wow, you guys actually give people the time of day even if they're being obtuse and reductive. You guys are a credit to your movement.

>>8173384
yeah, trying to be comprehensive y'know

Can you be CIS and AGP? Because the thought of being female has turned me on since forever and I can't really get an erection with anything that doesn't involve me as a girl or gender bender stories I can self insert in, but I don't really have any kind of disphoria nor a desire to transition. I mean if I could choose my own gender I would probably pick female but that's more of a fetish having boobs and stuff than a sense of actually belonging to that group.

>>8173873
I think most AGPs are cis men and fine with it

but other people would just say they're all repressing trans-women

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>agps

>>8174848
most trannies are agp af

>>8175303
>trannies
>pathetic
Checks out

I always thought it meant "a girl (with a) penis

>see thread about women being spanked on r9k
>sudden AGP surge
I swear to god this shit is just a proxy for my sub/masochism fetishes.
If I got a dom bf it would all go away.

>>8173873
Yes, BUT a lot of people start out like that and then later realize they're trans. Do some soul-searching. The "I'd rather be a woman for sex stuff but eh it's just a fetish haha" thing is a very common oblivious egg move.

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Ok so Blanchards theory always causes shit storms and people calling it a meme n shit. But are AGPs a bad thing? and Im definetly not HSTS but I wouldnt call me wanting to be a lass a "arousal" at all more of it feels natural to me what would that be?
So much fucking confusion. Appreciate answers.

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>>8177859
It is common for men to be discomfited by male roles and to desire the "easier" roles of women.
But if you actually had to go through childbirth only trutrans would still transition.

TLDR; get a job and stop thinking that if you grow tits some man is going to pay you to play vidya all day - it ain't gonna happen

>>8177859
Of course AGPs aren't a bad thing! Why would we be, besides memes? How do you know you aren't HSTS?

>>8177859
No, but the typology is false for an enormous pile of reasons. If you want an easily citeable one consider this paper I linked to a while ago. It clearly shows that while there is a correlation between being aroused by crossdressing and being attracted to women there is no clear two-type division which rules out the etiological argument. The only thing we know for a fact is that, for whatever reason, a lot of transsexuals are AGP and a lot of them stop being AGP after going on HRT and living as women for a few years. The exact relation between AGP and transsexuality remains unclear.
>>8171585

What Blanchard, his opponents and the data on hand agree on is that dysphorics generally benefit from transitioning and function better after doing so.

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>>8177921
>shaving your legs isn't sexy when you have to do it every day

newsflash!

>>8177972
Haha yeah, if you make something erotic and exotic into something day to day and banal it eventually stops arousing you. The cross-birthsex identity remains nonetheless, with transitioners generally doing better than before and reporting higher levels of happiness.

>>8177921
>dysphorics generally benefit from transitioning and function better after doing so.
what if i don't pass...

>>8178045
Welllll this is why I'm forever repressing idk we're fucked but if you can pass you should go for it

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>>8177877
I dont really care about the gender roles at all, transition or no Im still going to get a job and it wouldnt change my views on leaching.
>>8177886
Cos Im definetly not attracted to guys,
>>8177921
Wow cheers for a great answer and the link. I`ve looked at it and jesus its pretty heavy for me, but Im still going to fully read it.
> "for whatever reason, a lot of transsexuals are AGP and a lot of them stop being AGP after going on HRT and living as women for a few years."
Sorry but I`m not quite sure what you mean by this, that they become "straight" to there new genders typical sexuality or that they regret transitioning?

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>>8179249
>cheers for a great answer and the link

>>8179249
They typically just stop being aroused by AGP stuff. If they were attracted to women beforehand then they typically remain attracted to women and so on. Most don't regret it and report being happier.

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>>8179266
>Not staying in reddit.
>>8179292
Ohhhhh got it makes sense.

>>8177921
>the typology is false for an enormous pile of reasons.
Untrue.

>there is no clear two-type division which rules out the etiological argument.
Also untrue.

>the data on hand agree on is that dysphorics generally benefit from transitioning and function better after doing so.
I'd like to see that data.

>>8179249
That link is incorrect and invents false conclusions from false data. It's a long thread but read through it and that is shown.

AGP is one of two causes of dysphoria. Not all AGP causes dysphoria and sometimes the dysphoria is mild, but it's common for AGP to start causing dysphoria later and for its dysphoria to worsen.

It is common but not universal for AGPs to start being attracted to men as well as women when they transition.

>>8179481
>I'd like to see that data.
You wouldn't. Every time you were confronted by data you just ignored it. You believe what you want to believe.

>That link is incorrect and invents false conclusions from false data.
Unlike Blanchard's papers which draw true conclusions from true data so long as you ignore any data that contradicts it :^)

>>8179589
>You wouldn't. Every time you were confronted by data you just ignored it.
Stop lying and stop evading.

>You believe what you want to believe.
That's rich considering your biases.

>>8179656
Stop projecting, and ideally posting.

>>8179667
>don't reveal my lies!
>don't call out my 'data'!
>don't doubt my assertions!
>don't challenge my 'science'!
>don't expose my biases!
>don't speak except to agree!
This is the voice of the critics of Blanchard.

>>8179719
I've already linked to the facts. All you've ever done is say "NO NO NO NO" over and over again. That isn't an "argument" worth engaging with.

>>8179767
Stop lying. I can only point to >>8180063

>>8180074
Hey, notice how all that post says is "NO NO NO NO"?

>>8180103
It was your choice to launch into ad homs, which I never did, like accusing me of projection and to repeatedly and consistently ignore questions and points, which I again didn't do.

Your entire argument has been your "NO NO NO NO" and bystanders will see that.

>>8153355
libertarians are corporate authoritarians in practice

>>8176298
>If I got a dom bf it would all go away.
Meta-attraction.

>>8183234
no they're not, face the truth

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>>8171056
Not me who you replied to before btw
>Implying trannys want to escape from traditional masculine things
>implying anyone is that stupid
>implying you couldnt just dress like a twink and that wouldnt happen anyways -the effort.
>implying your aggression doesnt show that your definetly sensitive about your reppression
>implying the vocal minority of a minority group within the LGBT com. must represent the whole group itself
wew lad calm down from implications.

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>>8183810
Men can wear anything and be a true, masculine man, no one intelligent has an issue with a guy with long hair or eye liner (what is Kohl in all of the Middle East, what are the dresses Muslims wear, what are shawls and jewellery and metrosexual customs and even high heels all worn by masculine men around the world and in our past).

My point is masculinity is a responsibility, and giving up on your responsibility earns you no respect, so don't be surprised when other men or trans men who have to shoulder that responsibility and burden don't give you respect and mock you. They don't mock women because women didn't have any choice but to be born the weaker sex, and they have their own set of burdens too. Drop out men who act like fags but don't have the burdens of being a biological woman are not admirable, tolérable sure but they don't automatically earn any respect from me and many people subconsciously and naturally think this way too.

Just helping you to understand the 'transphobia' of the world.

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>>8183937
Also you can try to déprogrammé this all you like but it's a sentiment that always exists and you'll only be repressing people's natural understanding of the world, and you'd have to wipe out and censor the work of all philosophers past your post modernist professor for being 'transphobic bigots', and I'm not willing to do that for the agenda of 0.2% of the population

>>8183937
>>8183947
>Being a parody of yourself

Am I still AGP if I don't imagine myself having a vagina, but do imagine myself as a woman getting fucked in the ass by men? But I'm not attracted to men, and I have to be a woman for this to work. Gay porn does nothing for me. For me the best porn is pre-op MtF getting fucked by a man, and I imagine I'm the MtF. Is this autogynoandromorphophilia?

>>8186431
forgot to mention that I crossdress and get euphoria from it, but don't get aroused. I do like showing off for men while crossdressed though.

>>8186431
Yes. AGP comes in different forms and for different body parts. Some AGPs want breasts but no vagina, some the other way around.

>Is this autogynoandromorphophilia?
If you have to imagine yourself as a pre-op/non-op getting fucked in the ass, then yes.

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How do I know if I'm AGP or trans, I really need help here on the brink of suicide right now I'm so lost and confused, I want to be a qt3.14 girl, then I fap to straight porn or tranny and picture myself being the girl and sucking on a big cock eating loads of cum or picture myself bring the tranny taking it in the ass. Then once I cum I lose all interest in sex entirely then like an hour later I feel the same about wanting to be the girl, I am not attracted the the male body whatsoever though. I have a huge cum fetus and think about eating my own and others cum and just swooshing it around in my mouth and enjoying it.

>>8186881
>AGP or trans
AGP can cause trans. They're not alternatives.

>>8186921
Well I'm asking how to tell if it is worth going trans or if it's just a fetish, that's the problem I am completely lost right now.

>>8186881
If it's only taking an hour after a fap to want to be a girl again I'm sorry but it's time for you to take your meds

>>8186941
Learn about what transition is like and then think about living like that plus the social consequences and benefits of it compared to what life as a male will be, physically and socially. AGP dysphoria does worsen at least some of the time. But maybe with the right life you could be ok with it without transition. Either way your life will need to be able to fulfill you.

where can i buy really cheap female clothes? I've got a couple things but only one outfit really. (hope this is the right place to ask)

>>8187182
Thrift shops

>>8187182
I buy mine online, on hm, asos or new look usually

>>8186881
this >>8187018 and you should perhaps try to meet someone irl (gridder or stuff idk)

>>8186881
You can be both AGP and trans. One does not impact the other. Plenty of transsexuals with AGP transition and lead happy lives, though the majority stop being AGP in the process.

If you're suicidal over your gender then that's a pretty good indicator that you should look into transitioning. Or at least therapy. Act quickly and get help. By act quickly I mean confront and think this through so you know what to do, not buy a pair of rainbow knee-highs, a copy of SICP and start popping titty skittles without a second thought.

The worst thing you can do is try and forget about it. You're on a clock. Act while you can.

>>8188060
>One does not impact the other.

>>8188087
Senpai are you looking to start shit again? Accept that not everyone agrees with your rabbi.

>>8188109
I'm not going to let lies slip by. You are a hypocrite, making unreasonable and impossible demands of Blanchard's work, which are known to be true, while spreading your own falsehoods which could never stand even reasonable demands of scrutiny, let alone your impossible ones, and which you don't even bother to defend.

>rabbi
That's rich from someone who demands dogmatic reverence for the Nuttbrock scripture and refuses to acknowledge or even discuss its irredeemable failings and contradictions. While I have been scientifically minded and open to critique on everything.

>>8188495
You didn't even know who he was until yesterday. You haven't the first clue about the debate. Believe what you will but stop shitting up the thread every time someone gives someone advice.

>>8188553
>I'm not going to let lies slip by.

>>8188564
Then at least wear a trip so people can filter you.

>>8188568
If you want to post lies and refuse to ever defend them, you don't need filters to help you.

>>8188575
I defended my "lies" for 2 days without you making a coherent argument in response. I'm not going to keep wasting my time on trying to convince someone who has no interest in science.

>>8188581
You dragged out the thread without every addressing the fundamental flaws in your "evidence" and by refusing to address your unreasonable and biased demands against Blanchard.

Then you abandoned the thread entirely to spread lies regardless, even things you admitted were wrong in that thread.

You're not going to "waste" your time on someone who wants to deal with the actual issues, because it's easier to trick lots of people with small lies then defend your core bias.

What is the interest with cum and getting cummed on with agp? Why would you not be into men but be turned on by cum?

>>8188593
>>8188581
>>8188575
>>8188568
>>8188564
>>8188553
>>8188495
Is it finished kiddos ? You guys should were trips ffs

>wondering a lot in my early teens how would be my life if I was a girl (like my twin sister I used to adore)
>puberty hits me hard: acne, gross bodyhair recovers my legs, etc.
>hate my body for years because it looks half-male & hale-fem, but not in a sexy way (the only good parts I like & be proud of are my long haircut & skinny/fem silhouette)
>now, just a typical skinny shutin/neet/weeb closted bi-fag
>obsessed by MtFs (convinced that they're the best people on earth because they can truly fulfill their life, are braver than me, etc)
>loves feminizing guys & crossdressers
>but never been interesting in being in cute woman clothes myself
I'm not trans, right????

Friendly reminder to everyone ITT that you aern't as smart as you think you are, and no amount of flowery writing will save you from the fact that your arguments are baseless and obnoxious.

>>8189450
Haha sorry.

>>8189504
Well, Anon, here's a question:
do you want to be a woman?

> 24 male with autofemboyphilia
> no genital dysphoria, but some dysphoria about facial hair, voice, body hair, and fear of my face masculinizing further
> could theoretically pass if I transitioned - my worst masculine characteristic is 5'11.5 height, but face is pretty good, ectomorphic skeleton
> just got out of month-long dysphoria depression, and it's impacting my work significantly
> didn't really have strong dysphoria up until now, but did roleplay as a girl a lot

Right now my plan is to get a gender therapist, do voice training, but not start HRT yet and see if this passes, and use CDing as an outlet. Does this sound like a good idea, or should I just get on HRT right now and plan on staying in perpetual boymode? I only recently learned that A*P is unusual and leads to dysphoria. The idea of transitioning scares me and I don't know if my family would be accepting.

>>8153332
Haha my faceapp self actually looks worse than I normally do.

>>8156700
>-makeup/clothes shopping with female friends
>-getting hit on by attractive guys
>-still browse online communities, but less than I used to. also, I've moved on to tumblr somewhat
>-420 all day erry day. also, acid
>-play acoustic guitar and write songs
>-shifted focus from STEM to communications
FUCK TRANSITION RUINED YOUR LIFE

>>8191831
>tfw your life didn't get 'ruined' too

>>8156700
>switched from STEM to communications
Estrogen...not even once

I only feel and accept being trans while high.

How do I cure this AGP?

>>8192384
transition

>>8191549
Going to see a therapist is a very good idea if you can find a good one. It sounds like you're approaching things with the right attitude. Just make sure you're not losing too much time to figuring it out.

Hormone boobs + progesterone + VR porn =

>>8195951
>progesterone
i don't know hrt, what does this do?

>>8195984
>progesterone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone

>>8195993
>Progesterone plays an important role in breast development in women.
>Progesterone and its neurosteroid active metabolite allopregnanolone appear to be importantly involved in sex drive in females.
>They found that women who have higher levels of progesterone are more likely to be open to the idea of engaging in sexual behaviour with other women.[56] This pattern is particularly dramatic in men who have high levels of progesterone.
>It has been observed in animal models that females have reduced susceptibility to traumatic brain injury and this protective effect has been hypothesized to be caused by increased circulating levels of estrogen and progesterone in females.
>Progesterone may play a role in male behavior, such as in male aggression towards infants.

>>8191549
cd'ing can be fun if you don't fall for the tranny meme
and best part is you can keep your life and not have to start over again like trannies do

>>8199682
I want to start all over, just as a cis girl.

I may or may not be AGP, and I want to buy some lingerie to try it out.
What should I get?