/HRTGen/ HRT General 024: Hormones made me fall in love with

>>7752927
how do i convince my endo that my t dose is shit? it's 250mg/3 weeks, which was the shortest interval i could get him to prescribe. well aside from the fact that this interval is way too long to maintain a healthy testosterone level (2 is pushing it), i keep forgetting when my shot is and losing my (very low) needle tolerance by the time it happens.

>>7752927
Is the higher price of cypro justified over spiro?

>>7752927
Also, where should I get Progesterone?

>>7752973
Yes. I'm not even sure it is more expensive over time given how you can drop the dose.

>>7752958
Blood test to show you are outside normal male T range

>>7753362
but the normal range is shit
if we assume trans guys are meant to have identical levels to cis guys (not yet proven), i'm an 18 year old dude, pretty much the entire bottom half of the range would be extreme low t for me

>>7753380
Then normal for a male teenager, whatever

>>7752927

Purple Ranma is a cute! CUTE!!! :^D !

>>7753419
YES! XD <3 <3 <3

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9 months HRT and erections are becoming painful. This is only going get worse, isn't it?

SRS can't come soon enough.

Am 18years old should i take hormone blockers before the real stuff?
Also anyone from ger?

>>7754299
get on cypro and estrogen you hon

Wanting to go stealth as long as possible with Spiro and co sta the 2mg E.

I really just don't want any breast growth at all, mostly face,skin and hair. Neurofem is whatever.

Should I take ralox with it? How does ralox interact with E and Spiro? Will u still get fem everything except breasts?

>>7754516
It's not an option for all of us.

I need to stick to low-med doses of cypro for now, maybe mix some E down the line.

>>7755188
If you cant take E yet, cypro is your best option, but take 50 mg for the first couple of months. It will take more than a year before the changes become obvious to other people, but make sure you start E by 2-3 years.

Has anyone from Sweden paid to inhouse with SEB? Seriously getting confused here, keep getting IBAN/account number invalid. First payment. Kinda panicking.

>>7755842
>Kinda panicking
If its really urgent and you cant make it work, then use bitcoins

>>7755904
Not so much urgent as it's just I just got the courage to fix my shit (happy valentine's etc <3). But yeah, good idea. will look into that.

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Hey how badly am I being fucked up? I'm on a year hrt and my Sprio dosage was just lowered to 50mg. My T levels are 141 L and my E levels are 73.6 H. I have no idea what any of that means though. Should I find a new doctor?

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I've been on 50mg cypro and 6mg of progy for a couple of weeks but I'm still having random boners and such. Nothing's really happened to me. Is my dose to low for some reason ? Am I immune to hrt?

>>7756372
http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm

>>7756372
Yeah those are bad levels, your spiro should not have been lowered.

>>7756372
your levels are like that of a menopausal woman with added testosterone

How long does spiro take to drop my T levels?

>>7757432
check your levelds if you can. im on the same but estrofem instead of progy, about 3 or so months in i stoped getting so many random bonners, but sometimes i would get them when i need to pee but they were not as big and hard as before. A good indicator of cypro working is when your semen starts to become clear and not cloudy

>>7757935
depends on many things such as the dose, whether or not you take estrogen, and what your levels where when you started.

but for me on 50mg cypro my T was nuked from very high male range to low female range in just 2 months :D

>>7755714
50mg a day would rape my wallet. Also considering I can't show tanked T levels for now(hoping it can be in a "acceptable" level after two weeks of cold turkey).

My clinic's filled with know-it-alls in social psychology. Whist they happily ignore the side effects of not being on hormones they happily with fixate on me and my TERF-like mother's relationship.

Does anyone really know why TSH should be checked? It's on OPs picture.
My gf uses cypro & estradiol injections and has some symptoms of thyroid problems since hrt. As far as I know those values aren't being checked.

how to self medicate if inhouse doesnt ship to your country and customs check packages from outside the EU?

>>7759228
im taking 50mg a day spiro from low T i think it was around 300

>>7754246
>9 months HRT
>painful erections
>...erections
W-why are you still getting erections on 9 months HRT?

>>7760470
Because bicalutamide.

2 questions:
1st:This is my 2nd day on 50 mg androcur,is it normal that I feel like my erections are dissappearing already?

2nd: does androcur just "stop" you from wqnting to do anything sexual?

>>7760470
I still got erections even months after my orchiectomy. It happens.

>>7755842
Du får gratis hormoner om du gråter tillräckligt mycket för en psykolog. Undvik att se för autistisk ut (srs)

>>7760697
Har redan regelbunden psykologkontakt, kan försöka ta upp det med dem, men det är lite läskigt... Kan väl inte göra något direkt värre dock. Det tar inte typ 200 år av gatekeeping och tjafs?

>>7761093
inte hon, men det tog mig 6 månader att få hormoner utskrivna, självmedicinerade under tiden, de säger att det inte påverkar, men gissar på att det går fortare om man gör det
bor i stockholm btw, kan ta mkt längre tid ute i landet, upp till två år

>>7754299
Bump cause no real answer

>>7762118
take an anti-androgen and estradiol

>>7754299
Get on the real shit. I wish I did at 18. Hell even at 18 I felt like it was getting late, wish I did at 14.

What is the best dose to take with bica?

I'm switching to it from cypro becuase I like my dick, I'm taking 50mg of cypro

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I don't want to have to order next batch of estradiol as soon as next month and I just started hormones.

So can I just take 2mg once a day sublingually instead of 2x2mg?

Can't split estrofem into 2 1mg doses btw

>>7760625
Yep.
Yep.

>>7760625
1. I'm not sure because I started cypro (androcur in fact) after over 2 years of spiro use. For me it was a brief spike followed by a massive drop off, in regards to libido and erections and all that.
2. Everyone is different, but in my case and in most cases yes. It's not that I can't do anything sexual, more that I don't even feel like it or desire it anymore except for very rare occasions usually when it's been initiated by someone else. Sometimes my dick doesn't work, sometimes it does slightly, and sometimes it'll work.

The nuked sex drive can be weird to get used to at first but it's nice once you get used to it. It feels comfy and pure to not even care about sex.

Additional info: my sex drive is nuked but I still enjoy sucking dick a lot, weird shit huh?

>>7760271
it's not illegal to buy from abroad without a script

>>7764887
They don't like it where I live.
Qhi is the safest option.
Checking customs laws is the safest option.

>>7766185
should clarify qhi is safe due to no customs checking it as it's delivered internally in the EU internally.

>>7761484
Oh, Stockholm också, så det bådar ju gott iallfall. Skulle misstänka att det går snabbare då också i och med att det inte är helt kul att sluta plötsligt (vad jag har hört), så de vill väl få en på riktigt recept så snabbt som möjligt så att man inte får slut och hoppar frå en bro eller något.. Tack för infon :)

I've been on 50mg Bica and 4mg progy, when I should lower the dosage of Bica to 25mg?

Is it Antiandrogens or estrogen that makes it so you can't ejaculate?

>>7766785
That's cypro and Spiro in the long run. Though It's not a guarantee.

>>7766803

I've been unable to make any cum for about 6 months (out of 8) and it makes me miserable. Bica will let me still make baby gravy though, right?

>>7766803
Seven years now and I can still cum, it's just kinda pitiful.

I REALLY want to start hrt myself because of how fucking slow they are in sweden (2+ years! for hormones) but im really scared because of all the health risks. is the possibility of being affected by them really small or how is it?

>>7766967
Well I am doing it on risk.

I dunno the situation in sweden fully, but I know people have ordered through qhi.co.uk for hormones.

If you are serious for the long term though you are gonna need bloodtests, cypro and estrogen.

I myself have no bloodtests done due to my DIY'ing but I am not on estrogen yet.

It should not be a short term issue though. If it's long term again blood tests will be needed. See who's willing to supply that privately or take hormones and hope the GP will allow you to get blood tests(and maybe cover other costs).

>>7766803
Well my gnrh isn't working because I still ejaculate. (9 months)

how to deal with facial hair before hrt?
what do you do when shaving only gives you a few hours of looking normal (with makeup), and the next day there's stubble that if you try to shave you end up cutting yourself

it's the bane of my existence

>>7762754
Second'd. I'd also like to know this.

>>7766967
The health risks are really more a deal for old people (like 50) and generally unhealthy people.

Don't worry about health effects. Just start the hormones

>>7764887
inhouse doesnt deliver to germany
know anyone who does?

anyone know a guide or smth on how to get started?
like basic health info etc.
i know id probably find smth like that if i searched for it but why not ask here anyway

>>7768058
Try QHI?

>>7768080
The op image

>>7764675
Its kind of weird cause I feel like I "stopped" thinking with my penis,strange shit

>>7767200
Pretty sure doctors cannot refuse blood tests or anything.
It would be like going to a doctor and asking for a physical and they just say "no" lol

I'm in Canada and whenever I've had blood tests or std tests I've never required any sort of explanation and have never had to pay for any of the tests.
You can inform you're doctor that you are self-medding if you're worried about them freaking out about your hormones. It really makes no difference.

How do u tell if breast tissue is forming or if its just fat?

>>7768778
Do you feel a lump inside both of them?

>>7768814
Tbh its kinda hard to tell. Maybe a little denser behind the nips but im not sure if its just because its the meatiest part also.

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Is it normal for your ears to get warm when taking sublingual estradiol?

How much is real about the HRT shrinking penis thing?

>>7768932
I think alot comes down to usage. Hrt can kill libido... if u dont use it, u lose it.. at least temporarily

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>>7768932
It's not like you're gonna need it anyways.

>>7768932
Vascular tissue doesn't atrophy like muscle does. The tissue can shrivel up a bit from lack of use but if you start using it again you'll regain your size. I'd imagine if you went many years with no use it would be permanent though just cause inevitably with natural cell turnover your body would be less likely to build up that tissue, but that's probably like many many years of low usage.

So I'm a 24 year old mtf and I'm going to the clinic tomorrow to come out to my doc about transitioning (california.)

How long will it take until I'm on hrt on average? I've been considering doing this for the last 8 years and I'm worried I waited too long and I'll be a hon...

>>7769079
I think you should go to an Informed consent Clinic,if you dont,you probably will need 1/2 years of therapy,and you have no time to lose in that shit

>>7769079
Yeah your PP should have Informed consent. I went of Friday and had meds on Monday.

>>7769079
>How long will it take until I'm on hrt on average?
Too long, which is why any sane (lol) tranny should start self-medding the instant they realize they are one

>>7769100
Whats the cost difference? Is it covered through medi-cal or Obongo care?

>>7769114
I payed 20$ for a month of meds. Mine was covered by insurance, idk about those 2 but I would assume so.

>>7769167
Neat. Thanks

Question

Does bicalutamide help with muscle loss or does it help you retain muscle? I was under the impression it accelerated muscle loss more than Spiro and Cypro.

Is it ok if after my injections, I put the needle in my sharps box but just throw the syringe in the trash?

That's what I was doing when I first started injections, but then I saw someone say you should put syringes in sharps, so I started doing that, but now I'm thinking of going back to the first way, because syringes take up a ton more space in my sharps box, and I can't imagine why they would even need to go in sharps unless they still have needles attached to them.

>>7769669
it will blockT from activating receptors, wich means your muscles will no longer be juiced by T.

so yeah they will shrink

>>7770229
Kinda just seems like the polite thing to do.

Hello. I have a question.

Anyone know how long it takes on avg for complete muscle loss? I still feel "strong" after 1 months on 200mg spiro and 2 months on 50 mg cypro. When did you lose muscle and when did your body started to appear thinner in mass without an indication of muscles?

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Im pretty sure my right breast is growing faster than my left. It has been more sensitive and it looks and feels larger. I've tried massaging the left one, but it doesnt seem to be working. I'm 2 months in and they are both less than A cup. What can I do? Is this normal?

>>7772411
completely normal
in adult women they usually even out, but there's still a slight asymmetry and even an extreme one isn't too weird

>>7771608
I don't follow.
Which way seems polite, and to whom?

>>7770229
>I can't imagine why they would even need to go in sharps
Some injections are done by pulling some blood into the cartridge to mix with the drug before pushing it back into the vein, so this can cause it to become contaminated. Just a guess.

>>7771876
For the full effects it takes 1-2 years, but it varies from person to person.

>>7760470
I Still get erections and Ive been on hrt for a little over a year. They arent random, but they happen.

I just wanted to share a bit of reading I've been doing. I wanted the feminizing effects of oestrogen, minus the breasts and infertility. I am already on bicalutamide but I knew at some point I'd need to introduce oestrogen or an osteoporosis drug to prevent bone tissue decay. I saw two options: take oestrogen, save my bones and feminise body but become infertile, or take raloxifene, feminise my body and stay fertile. Well, turns out that raloxifene increases serum testosterone and reduces serum oestrogen. The testosterone isn't a big deal if you're on anti-androgens, but the reduction in oestrogen sucks. Bicalutamide is known to drive up testosterone levels anyway, so the hope was that the excess testosterone would be aromatised into oestrogen. Well, raloxifene turns your oestrogen levels back down to normal. The combination of an anti androgen and raloxifene will not feminise you at all, it will just stop you from masculinising. Adding oestrogen to the stack will feminise you, but will make you infertile. It's a rock and a hard place.

>>7773796
Are you sure about that? Raloxifene is an oestrogen rector modulator so it's basically oestrogen; the reduction in oestrogen is outweighed by the action of the raloxifene.

Other drugs do similar things. For example, cyproterone is actually a slight androgen receptor agonist, but it works far more strongly as an antagonist so the overall effect is less action of testosterone.

>>7773825
It was used in a study on men with gyno, had no feminising effects on them. These were men with low test / hypogonadism, but the men with hypogonadism were given test injections and it's fairly well known that testosterone tends to overpower oestrogen so maybe this study isn't exactly what I'm looking for. I think what worries me is there wasn't even the slightest observation that any feminisation had taken place. I can't find any other relevant studies, and I haven't met anyone online who takes raloxifene either.

my T dropped to the right levels after 3 months, should I keep my spiro dosage the same or can I lower it?

>>7769167
I pay $12 for 120 generic estrdiol tabs with the Walgreens pharmacy card thing. It's like $20 a year. Worth noting.

>>7774259
>tfw just spent $164 online for the next 4 months worth of just E

check your official prescription privilege

>>7774279
Hey I know those feels. I self medded for a year and a half before I got a script. I got stupid lucky and my doc let's me self med cypro too.

>>7774339
Oh wow that was pretty kind of him. Did you have issues with requesting it? Cypro isn't cleared for use in America last I heard

>>7774386
It still isn't. It wound up cheaper to continue buying it from asset chemist, but the fact the she knew about that kind of stuff was amazing. FYI this is in Arkansas. Uams woman's health center for gynocology for the trans people in Arkansas looking to go legit.

>>7774420
Asset chemist asked me for a prescription. How did you manage to get them to deliver?

>>7774444
You used to be able to pay like 12 pounds for one. I bought 160 100mg tabs like 6 months ago, so it might be different now.

>>7774485
I had an e-mail exchange with one of them, safe to say there's no way I'm getting anything without a prescription anymore haha. Count yourself lucky!

>>7774259
Is that without insurance? if thats the case i will totally switch to walgreens and get this card.
What about for spiro and progesterone?

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So Im on the 8mg of estradiol and I want to switch over to injectibles because I feel like im missing too much with just dissolving under the tounge.
Does anyone know the equivalent dose of 8mg per day of estrodiol tablets to estradiol valerate?
Id ask my doctor but he said there was currently a shortage in america of injectable estrogen. I see at least ADC and Inhouse has those.

does castration stop balding? males in my family go bald in their 20s or 30s, is there any fighting it? will hrt + eventual castration stop it?

>>7775036
HRT will chemically castrate you. If your mom or grandma are bald then you might lose your hair no matter what. Typically HRT stops balding

what's the deal with progesterone? since it's half off on inhouse now i'm thinking of getting it. is it worth it? how much/when to take it?

>>7774259
Dang, that's not bad. I am gonna look into switching to a closer pharmacy anyways.

>>7775319
It will stop you from having to take T blockers tho, so its really personal preference.

>>7775674
>Wanna castrate
>Would need to explain the 1-2 weeks off work
>Would need to explain to my parents the time off work too and why I'm bed ridden for a bit
>Don't want to get kicked outta the house for quite literally throwing away my manhood
Life is hard

About to switch from spiro to cypro! Anything I could expect in that middle time in switching over?

>>7775778
you'll finally stop feeling like shit

>>7775912
Why do you say that?

>>7775912
Can't wait

>>7775319
i can lose my hair even if my nuts are nuked? dammit

>>7776678
you would get female-pattern baldness, not male-pattern
the thing about both types of baldness is that they don't often progress to the full 'only a ring of hair left' stage, though fpb usually stops a bit earlier than the comparable stage in mpb
about half of all women experience fpb to some degree eventually

>>7776684
>to the full 'only a ring of hair left' stage
what causes that? and is whatever causes it like unfixable? a little paranoid, i guess

>>7776690
balding

i started hrt a few days ago with 2x2mg e daily sublingually

can i just take it once a day for a while?

like sublingually the peaks are a million times higher and absorb better, leaving you with effectively double the dose after 24 hrs compared to oral

>go on spiro
>have dizzy episodes, have to stand up slowly or risk getting dizzy
>have fainting episodes

>go on cypro
>dizziness goes away
>breast growth starts
>2 months in begin feeling fatigued and depressed
>can't tell if it's hrt giving me mood swings or cypro
>begin to have a small faint line appear going from my crotch to my belly button
>look it up and apparently it happens to some pregnant women, it's probably because of the progesterone in cypro

So I can either be dizzy and faint randomly or I can be too depressed and fatigued to do anything and have a line appear on my stomach?

100mg spiro and 50mg cypro btw, 4mg estrofem sublingually

>>7778018
take whichever of the following options is most accessible
>lupron (best hormone blocker, but not suitable for long-term, risk of horrific side effects)
>finasteride (not particularly good, but nice side effect profile)
>megadosing estrogen without antiandrogen (experimental, dose uncertain, increased risk of directly estrogen-related side effects)
>orchiectomy (best option by far, not as easy to access and a one-time expense of a few thousand bucks)

>>7778071
What are the "horrific" side effects of Lupron?

>>7778071
You don't suggest bicalutamide?

>>7752927
What is the most effective way to take E sublingually?

>>7778018
Take methyl b12 pills and drop cypro to 3/4 pills or 1/2 pill a day, and it might help with your depression.

If I want a subtle femboy look, should I take estrogen but no anti-estrogen?

>>7779240
*anti testosterone

>>7779240
>only estrogen

enjoy your ugly manboobs with fridge bod with ugly abdominal fat

if you wanna fall for the femboy meme take AA's only but then you'll have no sex hormones whatsoever and you'll be tired and unmotivated 24/7

>>7779209
Are there several types of B12? I take one in the mornings but I don't know if it's the correct one.

What dose should I be taking?

>>7778018
try bicalutamide

>>7779667
I heard that that was less effective than cypro and spiro though, correct?

>>7779672
incorrect

>>7779735
What are the benefits?

>>7779933
much lower lethal dose, easier suicide

>>7779933
Pros
>no side effects
>good at reducing body hair
>long half life
Cons
>can't determine effectiveness through blood tests
>won't permanently destroy ball function like cypro

>>7779962
What makes bica so good at body hair compared to other blockers?

>>7779962
For someone that might want to have kids keep ball functions might be a must.

>>7779984
then for those people it could be a pro

>>7779962
What's the usual dose?

Couldn't I just nuke my balls with cypro and then switch to bica?

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>>7754246
>>7754246
>my idea of "woman" is being weak and asexual
This whole transgender movement is just mass sex hysteria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterical_contagion

I'm not saying trans people aren't possible... just the majority of people calling themselves "trans" aren't trans.

>>7780160
How do I know if I'm a real one or if I caught the virus

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>>7780185
Is your ideal self a "woman" or an alpha woman? Any trans "woman" not wanting to be THE FINEST specimen of woman that you can be is just a case of hysterical autoandrophobia.

Hints:
1. Alpha women have AGP.
2. Alpha women are high-testosterone.
3. Alpha women are thick and strong.
4. Alpha women have sex drive.
5. Alpha women have big clits.

>>7780254
Are you test anon

>>7780267
Why should there be only one test anon?
Every anon needs to be testosterone anon.

Female testosterone: rise!

>>7780267
So what's with your obsession to know identity of anon? Are you so afraid of losing in fair debate that you want to attack a person?

>>7780267
Are you anti-androgen anon?

>>7780495
I don't wanna fight with anyone :)

>>7780508
Yes

>>7780543
>I don't wanna fight with anyone :)
Your past actions contradict this declaration of peace.

>>7780551
What did I do?

>>7778753
Use a pill crusher and dump the powder between your outer gum and cheek. I read that buccal (gum/cheek) absorption is more effective than sublingual absorption. Anecdotally, I feel it's better that there's no more saliva mixing in. I use a bent gift card to distribute the powder. I don't have the source on me but I'm sure that the buccal method of absorption more effective than the sublingual method.

Most of my dysphoria comes from having male genitalia, and Cypro sounds like it could maybe help with that if it really does attack testicles.

If I did take it, what would happen, would it work for me?
Ideal case would be that dysphoria ends up reduced since my junk withers and shrinks. Would that be a likely outcome?
Would I need to go the whole hog and take estrogen as we

>>7780576
ive been on cypro for about two months now and my balls have only slightly shrunk

ive also noticed that a thick line has appeared on the underside of my penis and a faint line going from my crouch to my bellybutton has also appeared

apparently this line also appears in pregnant women so it's probably the progesterone in the cypro

>>7780565
What if I snort it

>>7780556
Tell me your name and address.
I will come and tell you.

>>7780589
I don't care how it looks, no one is going to see it.
As far as I'm concerned it hideous as is, and I just want it gone.

>>7779941
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicalutamide#Overdose
>Overdose is considered to be unlikely to be life-threatening with bicalutamide.
>A massive overdose of nilutamide (13 grams, or 43× the normal maximum dosage) in a 79-year-old man was uneventful.

>>7780052
>it's bad for you
Or how about not handing out misleading advice?

>>7780802
Uh what

>>7780822
>a con is actually a pro
>not misleading

>>7780836
It's not misleading or false at all.

>>7780845
That's a great argument.

>>7778092
https://rxisk.org/lupron-a-nightmare-produced-in-abbvie/
this is a bit of an old story but it's been in the news a lot lately for similar reasons
i took it for 2.5 years (pubertal transitioner) and was fine, and get pretty pissed off at how the recent stories are being spread around by terfs trying to say it's not fine, but it *isn't* fine for some people on it
>>7778109
i don't suggest bica because of how niche it is
most trans women wouldn't want to keep their dicks functioning and those who would, if diying, would just start bica straight up and not ask for advice after going through spiro and cypro

>>7780254
Obivous troll women taking roids are not a good example of woman lol.

>>7778071
>megadosing estrogen without antiandrogen (experimental, dose uncertain, increased risk of directly estrogen-related side effects)
Does science know what happens to the body subjected to supraphysiological estrogen with supraphysiological testosterone?

Let's say it's a sci-fi question, to avoid triggering trans women with severe dysphoria.

>>7780940
Why dont trans pornstars take bica instead of going off stuff if it keeps the dick functioning?

>>7780968
like everything else in the field of transsexualism ("what do we have studies on?" "uh, one longitudal of whether transition is successful or not, a couple agp/hsts typology things, and a few case studies of schizophrenic/intersex/anorexic/identical twin trannies"), this is incredibly underresearched
however, it was the protocol in and prior to the 1980s and generally did not kill people
>with supraphysiological testosterone
the supraphysiological estrogen doses were for the purpose of suppressing testosterone, they wouldn't cause increased levels -- aromatase only works one way, e does not convert to t
>>7780974
because bica is extremely recent and further experimentation is needed to see how much functioning it preserves in the context of trans women taking estrogen

>>7780968
Estrogen downregulates testosterone.
Using estrogen without AAs is an actual accepted method of HRT. You don't need to megadose that much, it's usually in the range of 6-10mg/day is enough to downregulate T enough. Sometimes for the first month or two T levels will be high but they eventually go down.

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>>7780957
>women taking roids
There were no roids before roids were invented.

Although strong women were marginalised and suppressed just like today.

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>>7780995
>Estrogen downregulates testosterone.
If it were completely true, there would be no bodybuilders with gynecomastia. Apparently both hormones are capable of working together without completely cancelling each other.

>>7780993
>Aromatase only works one way, estrogen does not convert to testosterone.
Could it mean that megadosing testosterone without aromatase inhibitor is yet another way to turn a man into a woman?

>>7780974
what do you consider functioning? being on bica for about a year now, my testes have shrunk significantly, erections have weakened considerably, and semen production has been mostly eliminated

>>7781060
>If it were completely true, there would be no bodybuilders with gynecomastia. Apparently both hormones are capable of working together without completely cancelling each other
this is a misunderstanding of aromatase, bodybuilders without aromatase inhibitors get tits because the t turns into e
that does not work both ways
>Could it mean that megadosing testosterone without aromatase inhibitor is yet another way to turn a man into a woman?
on the other hand, it appears the amount of feminization needed for mtf transition exceeds what can be created through aromatase

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>>7781082
>the amount of feminization needed for mtf transition exceeds what can be created through aromatase
That might be only due to the Politically Correct misogynistic definition of "feminization"... such as loss of muscles... or loss of sexual function... rather than objective reality.

>>7780995
>Estrogen downregulates testosterone.
Another fact of life that subverts this claim is existence of feminine high-testosterone women.

>>7781060
Bodybuilders get gyno because when they use steroids the T turns into E so yes they do have high testosterone but their T:E ratio is all wonky so they get tits.
And yes, it is possible by abusing steroids to chemically castrate yourself. Many bodybuilders that have used steroids find themselves in the situation of having such severe testicular atrophy that they are resigned to using TRT for the rest of their lives.
>>7781123
Women produce testosterone in a different way then men. If women had testicles then estrogen would downregulate T. That's why if you use estrogen by itself you usually have to wait like a month or two for it to shut things down in your testicles before your T is low enough.
It's not an ideal way to do HRT since it's harder to get dosages and you need more hormonal tests, but it can be done, and has been done many times before.

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>>7781146
The more you explain, the less I know.

Okay, let's ask the same question in a different way.

Creatures like pic related are clearly possible, there's no denying that – even by the most hardened misogynist. We know what HRT it takes to transform a cis woman into it.

What kind of hormonal regimen would it take to transform a cis man into it? With breasts, muscles, feminine face and gluteofemoral fat.

There is always a route from A to B in a continuous space such as the sex spectrum.

>>7781197
>With breasts, muscles, feminine face and gluteofemoral fat.
And a massive throbbing clitoris.*
Pardon my AGP.

>>7781197
>There is always a route from A to B in a continuous space such as the sex spectrum.
Not really... If you're say a 40 year old man transitioning you're not going to end up a qt thick girl.
Your bones only marginally change shape in response to hormones. The only way to ensure you look as much like a girl as possible is transitioning as early as possible. Otherwise there's just surgical modifications after that.

Technically there are "estrogens" that change bone shape. Certain xenoestrogens do, but obviously ingesting pesticides and herbicides is not a good idea lol

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>>7781221
>Certain xenoestrogens do, but obviously ingesting pesticides and herbicides is not a good idea lol
LOL. I already consume certain pesticides that give me xenobiotic powers. Just swallowed some as you wrote this.

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>>7781221
>bones
I'm not worried about that. Yeah, bones are essential for face. But let's focus on what we can work with, not on what we can't. Which leaves us with: soft tissues.

>you're not going to end up a qt thick girl
I don't demand perfection... just the correct direction. Anything better than the present state is good. What's there to lose?

>The only way to ensure you look as much like a girl as possible is transitioning as early as possible.
Again, what kind of HRT? Not the conventional one because it just emasculates you. The women I show you are anything but frail and asexual.

Hey people

Im going to be starting hormones soon but dont want anything irreversible in terms of fertility.

How long do i have to take spiro for to get permanent decreased fertility (like lower sperm in the future) and how long do i have to take spiro to get permanent sterility (it's not coming back fampai)?

Also does this bicalutamide thing not fuck up your dick or something? It's so expensive and people arent really giving confident replies

Would regular HRT or estrogen-only HRT help with lactation?
I heard lactation is possible for guys.

>>7779452
I heard the opposite, that estrogen without testosterone blockers would not cause tits.

>>7781403
>Again, what kind of HRT? Not the conventional one because it just emasculates you. The women I show you are anything but frail and asexual.
lolwat conventional HRT works just fine. Maybe with the exception being people that use spiro, since spiro isn't a true antiandrogen and only exerts it's action through a bizarre mechanism in your adrenal glands.
>>7781643
Biologically speaking there isn't any reason why estrogen alone or estrogen + AAs would give any different results assuming your T levels hit the same range.
In many people estrogen by itself cannot get your T low enough though, or it at least takes more time so nowadays that is why AAs are common usage whereas in the past they were not. It's just AAs provide instant results whereas estrogen on its own does not.

>>7781672
So are you saying estrogen is a slow-acting testosterone blocker?
The thing is, I want to be a bit more cute and feminine, but I don't want to look weird!

>>7781682
Estrogen doesn't block test, it indirectly causes a reduction in T via its endocrine disruption in the testicles.
Historically pre about 1995ish or so it was unknown that testicles actually had estrogen receptors and it was only in early 2000's toward the end of 2010 that estrogen receptor function in testicles and mens reproduction was fully elucidated. Estrogen receptors in penile tissue still has a completely unknown function and is regarded as vestigial receptors.
We now obviously know how important estrogen is to mens testicular function, reproduction, sperm, etc. etc. but we also know just how horrible it is for the ratio of T:E to be disrupted. A low T:E ratio can cause testicular atrophy and once atrophy occurs it often does not reverse which is E therapy without AAs does in fact work.
In the 60s and 70s when they were using E without AAs they had no idea why it works, there was literally not a single scientific article out there that could explain it, it just worked.

I can't help you with wanting varying levels of "cuteness" though... That's just not a thing lol
Like as far as numbers go, if your hormones are female range that's pretty much the extent as to what people know.

>>7781710
So does this mean that for the time being, anything but the standard becoming-a-girl HRT is a no-go zone?

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>>7781556
>I heard lactation is possible for guys.
I've seen lactating bodybuilders (on the Internet). Again, they have "overdosed" on testosterone to produce natural estrogen. I want an answer to your question too.

Hey so I have to make my first shipment of Bica last. Is 25 mg/d an OK dosage?

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>>7781672
>lolwat conventional HRT works just fine.
Come on, everyone knows it kills your testosterone, with all detrimental consequences. Whom are you trying to fool? The women I show you are high-testosterone (some from juicing, some naturally). You can't emulate them by killing testosterone.

The bottom line: you still didn't tell me how to turn a man into a high-testosterone goddess.

>>7781556
>>7782737
I'm lactating. But I've been taking antipsychotics for years which happen to raise prolactine levels.

>>7781710
>Historically pre about 1995ish or so it was unknown that testicles actually had estrogen receptors and it was only in early 2000's toward the end of 2010 that estrogen receptor function in testicles and mens reproduction was fully elucidated.
Does it mean theoretical possibility of such Selective Estrogen Reuptake Modulators that don't act on testicles and therefore don't disrupt testosterone?

It would be the revolution that I'm looking for: feminisation without emasculation.

>>7781710
>once atrophy occurs it often does not reverse
Do you mean it doesn't reverse "by itself" or "by any means possible"? For example, testicular atrophy in juicing bodybuilders doesn't reverse ONLY if they don't restore the functioning of their "adrenal-gonadal axis" or however they name it.

>>7782765
>I'm lactating.
Kind of nice. The downside is killed libido I guess. The trick the world is looking for is high prolactine WITHOUT low dopamine.

>>7782757
>high-testosterone goddess
no such thing wtf

if you have high test as a woman you'll look like a man good god

come down from the agp fantasy

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>>7782785
>high-testosterone goddess
>no such thing wtf
Wow. I did not expect such brazen denial even from the most hardened misogynist.

Then what is the woman in this picture, according to you?

If this is your idea of a "man":
a) tell us how other men can achieve this form too;
b) tell me why men in my local gym don't look like this.

Post below is where your denial was due. Why did you wait until my present post?

>>7781197
>Creatures like pic related are clearly possible, there's no denying that – even by the most hardened misogynist.

Just curious about this, but can HRT actually make your hip bones grow wider if you started after initial male puberty? Anyone here can share their experiences with hip bone growth?

>>7783076
Yes. I believe a common cutoff for hip bones to start fusing is around 20, although anons had growth after that point so its up to chance if you'll get growth after that. If you start before 20 and the earlier the better, you can expect some growth at least.

How do i HRT if i cant take blood tests? seriously...
I want to start it but i have 0 chance of blood tests. You need an official, documented reason for that in my country...

>>7783419
>I want to start it but i have 0 chance of blood tests. You need an official, documented reason for that in my country...
Unimaginable.

Don't you have commercial blood testing labs in your country? I believe even communist China has them.

Which part of the blood testing process is exactly illegal? Drawing of blood from vein? Or analysing a blood sample? Is testing anything else illegal too?

>>7783453
just answer the question im wondering about this too

i live in a small ass shitty town so theres definitely no places to do that here. im not sure if there are any in helsinki either because finland is a shithole

>>7782772
That's already a thing
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4591937/

>>7782779
It doesn't reverse by any means whatsoever. Bodybuilders that abuse steroids have known about this for a long time. Once your nuts are gone they aren't coming back.
Men that abuse steroids generally require test replacement for the rest of their life due to testicular atrophy. That's why they warn guys to do cycles, not go too excessive, etc to keep atrophy to a minimum.

>>7781800
Anyone got an answer for this?

I can feel a mass behind my right nipple
please tell me it's not cancer

Anyone here on raloxifene? Never met anyone on it, ever.

>>7783987
Sounds like budding.

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>>7784185
dis no dime for budding!

>>7779984
What's the point? Estrogen will kill your balls anyway, and you can't stay on AA's without estrogen forever

>>7783910
>The prodrug DHED selectively delivers 17β-estradiol to the brain
Almost there... almost. Now we need a drug that selectively delivers estradiol to the breasts and to the hair–skin–fat. (And perhaps to the bones for the benefit of younger trans women.)

Thanks.

>>7784452 (me)
>>7783910
>to the hair–skin–fat
I'm pretty sure such a selective "estrogen" would also come with the benefits of protecting from diabetes and heart disease and side effects of testosterone.

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Hallo
Welche hormone sind am besten?
Ich finde bisher androcur und progynova am besten was meint ihr?

>>7784452
You heard of raloxifene?

>>7784073
bump

>>7784777
>raloxifene
I haven't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raloxifene
>estrogenic actions on bone
>anti-estrogenic actions on the uterus and breast
Isn't it the opposite effect?

>>7784777
>>7783910
MFW literally every SERM and SERD researched by science is anti-estrogenic in breasts.

Fuck this gay science.

>>7784905
That's the entire point of researching them. It's to stop breast cancer.

>>7782755
GUYS I NEED AN ANSWER

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has anyone had problems ordering from links mentioned in
>>7752927
>don't want to get screwed over

pic unrelated

>>7785001
yes that's a common dose and easily available on the rest of the internet, stop being a lazy cunt

>>7785140
all have drawbacks, QHI shipping can bi hit or miss, people have been scammed by using ADC, also some payment methods are kinda annoying but just look into it yourself. I use QHI and think they're great,

>>7781457
>bicalutamide
Ive been taking it for 2 months now, it has reduced my libido but everything still works fine.

>>7784559
I don't know much German
Progynova is good
Androcur is good
Bicalutamide (casodex) is good
Estrofem is good
Viel gluck

>>7784073
Check with /femgen/, some of them take raloxifene

>>7781457
Bica is pretty much all you can take. People say to take oestrogen with it but this meme will kill your balls (testicles have oestrogen receptors). People also say to take raloxifene but every study performed on any men shows no feminising effects. Good for preventing osteoporosis though.

Is it true that alldaychemist can send Fake tablets? I heard this from a friend, who heard it online.

>>7783969
>>7781800
You can have both high T and high E with pharmaceuticals obviously.
Just take both at the same time. But it would probably just be similar to what bodybuilders experience with steroids and you'd just look like a man with gyno

>>7785685
Oh and I also heard that sometimes the Spiro is weaker. Is this true?

>>7786312
>>7785685
Pretty sure that's just hons-tales trying to scare people away from self-medding.
I suppose there's always the possibility but it's unlikely.

>>7786117
Darn, I just want to be a smoothskin.

>>7785685
ADC sent me fake Spiro, Cypro, and Progynova. Also they sold my number to every single bootleg Indian telemarketer in the world and I still get calls every few hours a brand new number from HI HELLO YES THIS IS PAJEET WITH CANA --

Never again

>>7786395
Oh jeeze thats alot of supposed fakes. Did blood tests support this, or how did you know?

>>7785685
I ordered cypro from them when I was at 10 months HRT. I started taking 50mg of said cypro per day. My sex drive came back full force, even after taking the cypro for nearly a month. I started taking Spiro again and the sex drive vanished immediately. I suspect they were fake pills.

>>7786499
Didn't do blood tests. I was off HRT at the time so I would have felt it a million times more if it was working. 3 months of the cypro and spiro and the progynova and felt absolutely no difference. With In House back in the day I felt it in 4 days.

My Progynon Depot arrived today, what needles should I get for IM injection?

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>>7752927
im not trans, but i would very much like to change my figure and Hrt seems a very good way to do this, is hrt a viable way to reach trap/femboy status?

>>7786716
No, you're trans though so start anyways.

>>7774444
witnessed

>>7786617
>3 months of the cypro and spiro and the progynova and felt absolutely no difference
I'm on 5 months and no difference desu

>>7786720
nah

>>7786716
Yes, take estrogen and bica so you don't nuke your balls

>>7786749
will tits happen?

>>7786763
If you're lucky

is it dangerous to dyi? are there major risks of death and or shorter life span?

>>7786788
that a no? im not fond of man tits

>>7786812
They're just boiboobs, they're cute.

>>7786822
the point of elarged nips is ok its nice and makes em tender but large hooters are a personal turnoff, i just dont want saggers

>>7786812
They're boytits, not man tits.
If it's really that big of a deal you can take meds that'll stop breast growth

>>7786851
If you don't take prog they won't get that big. You'll just get cute little cone boobies

>>7786865
Progesterone doesn't cause breast growth, that's been debunked.

>>7786871
How so? Literally everyone that takes prog or uses cypro (which is progestogenic) reports more boob growth.

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HRT alone doesn't decrease muscle mass does it? What are some things I can do to speed up my muscles decreasing?

From what I'm hearing my bra measurements are fucked up because I still have manly back muscles? So I need to wait until a certain point in HRT to have those shrink?

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>>7786871
>>7786993
Both wrong. A significant amount of people who take prog or use cypro report more tit growth. Like anything regarding HRT, it works differently for everyone but should be considered if tit growth is something you strive for.

should I avoid ADC and order from IHP instead?

I just went from 50mg cypro to 25mg cypro to see if it helps with my mood swings

Am I gonna die

Me start HRT at 20, will me get hip growth?

Me fairly tall but have no hair on chest and can't grow beard.

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>>7785140
>>7785175
would love others experiences with them
this thread seems to prefer ghi as inhouse apparently now wants paperwork. im really trying to find out if anyone has ever gotten any botched or flat out wrong stuff.
tryed going the normal route but had them all laugh it off as a joke so yeah

>>7787270
Hip growth happens no matter what. Cell turnover for skeletal structure is roughly 6-10% a year.
For obvious reasons the earlier you start the better off you'll be since complete turnover takes 10-20 years.
Don't believe the memes that starting past puberty gives no skeletal structure changes, there's no proof for that.

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>>7786749
what if you "want" to nuke your balls and dick?

>>7787365
Then take Spiro and estrofem

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I'm gonna be on Bica alone for a little while. What can I expect to happen from it in ~a month?

>>7787382
Spiro does not have any interaction with your testicles in any way whatsoever. It's only antiandrogenic mechanism is through your adrenal gland and it is a moderate androgen with weak to moderate transcriptase activity.
Cypro directly inhibits testicular function and is a strong androgen receptor agonist and has very weak transcriptase activity. Cypro basically nukes your entire steroidogenesis enzymes, it inhibits basically every enzyme involved in steroidogenesis.

Both cypro and spiro act in sort of similar ways. They're both androgens with weak transcriptase activity. Basically they are very highly androgen receptor binding but just sit in the receptor and do nothing. The difference is cypro also inhibits steroidogenesis and has an unknown mechanism which results in severe testicular atrophy. It very quickly causes sterilization but the mechanism hasn't been explained yet. It most likely never will since the cancer research has moved on to bica and cypro is largely unresearched nowadays.

>>7786993
>>7787008
Except for cis women, whose breasts grow before the body naturally starts creating prog

>>7786644
bump

>>7787365
>>7787401
dont what to say much but which causes more nukage a anti adrogen or estrogen

have had low t since 16. doctors wanted to proscribe t. those bastards. anyway was thinking about skipping the anti adrogen

>>7787563
antiandrogens directly lower T, estrogen indirectly lowers T via downregulation. AAs are instant, E on its own requires possibly many many months to achieve T downregulation.
Spiro is not a true antiandrogen though. It's a diuretic used after surgeries for fluid retention. I'm surprised people consider it an AA at all actually. It's ridiculous that it is even used for mtf's to begin with.
Secoisolariciresinol from various plants literally has the same pharmacology and nearly the same receptor activity as spiro. Spiro is not an AA.

>>7787580
I-is this true?

>>7787668
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spironolactone
>is a medication that is primarily used to treat fluid build-up due to heart failure, liver scarring, or kidney disease.

how do you increase sex drive on cypro, its completely killed it for me

>>7786993
>be on hrt
>think all the changes are done after a year
>boobs continue to grow
>IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE PROG AND CYPRO :3 :3

>>7788112
Lmao breasts take way longer than a year to grow

>>7788121
that's the point nametard

YOOOOOOOOOO QHI HAS BICA NOW

I've been on spiro+progy so far. Is it worth it to switch to bica from a cost standpoint?

Is it a good idea to switch to bica after cypro has completely nuked your balls?

I don't like the mood swings cypro gives me.

>>7752927
So I know people say that boobs finish growing by 3 years. I'm just over two years in now and I have probably like A or B cups I'm not sure. Anyway I also was on a low dose for 6 months to a year or something. Anyway do you think the 2-3 year thing still applies to me or maybe I will take a bit longer since I was on a low dose for a while? And has anyone experienced a decent amount of growth after the 2 year point? I mean I definitely have boobs now that I like etc. I'm just wondering if they're gonna grow more or what.

>>7788322
>>7788330

You don't even need to nuke your balls first. Bica and estrogen should be enough from the start.
So yeah bica should be good.

>>7788351
But what scares me is that I can't track bica's effectiveness through blood tests.

I wanna be in cypro for a little for the progesterone anyway.

>>7788374
Estrogen/haivng nuked your balls should keep your T levels low enough for bica to work. Even if you don't have 0 T bica can block the effects; that's the point of bica.

Anyway cypro also has slight androgenic effects so keep that in mind. But the prog effects is another thing I can't really speak to.

Actually I'm wondering if shooting for 0 effective testosterone is even healthy. I mean I personally am doing that because I want to be as fem as possible, but like I think cis girls have a little bit of testosterone working in them to make them have libido etc. As it is my libido is pretty weak. Which isn't a totally bad thing but it makes it hard to get sexually excited if I ever want to. Well IDK, something to consider.

I read somewhere that people nowadays, because of AAs are often running on lower levels of estrogen than transpeople in the past. I mean AAs are all fine and good for the most part but make sure you have a decent amount of estrogen as well (so as to feminize you and also to block masculinization). I think estrogen is sort of neglected in favor of talking about AAs but 2bh estrogen is potentially more important.

>>7788402
I'm currently at 25 for T in my last test. This was at 1 month and a half of Spiro and 3 weeks on Cypro.

So, I'm trying to enter the system and I want to be able to communicate how long I have been self medicating to the doctor. I also kinda just want to know in general. So, what do you think an equivalent timespan of continuous normal doses is that corresponds to my dosage history?

>First dose July 23 2016 of 100mg spiro elevated to 200mg on 24th. Last dose taken August 13th in the early morning. Total 42 100mg spiro pills. Estimated 4mg progynova doses started within first half of first week. Total ~36 2mg progy pills.
>Nothing August 13-Mid September.
Very poor useage of remainder of pills some time in September. No definite time frame and many missed doses due secrecy and such. Target was 200mg spiro and 4mg progy daily. Actual amounts varied between 0 of both and 200mg spiro and 6mg progy daily. Last 14 spiro pills were slightly weened off. Maybe 30 progy pills were consumed during this month long period.
>Mid October - November 18 Nothing
>November 18 - January 2, Sporadically taking 200mg spiro and 2mg progy (~20 2mg pills total)
>January 2 - January 22 consistent ~1.25mg fin and 200mg spiro. Weened off to ~1.25mg fin and 100mg spiro at end week-couple weeks
>January 23 - present 200mg spiro, 4mg progy, ~1.25mg fin daily

I want to know what I can compare to in terms of HRT changes timelines and Finasteride hair regrowth.

>>7788322
They've always had bica, though

>>7789053
Not that I've seen. Plus it's listed as a new item.

>>7789089
You had to ask for it over email

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I know I must be like the 100000th person to ask this. But what if I end up looking like a hon?

Are the effects reversible? I mean, I want to be a woman, but if I can't at least look relatively cute I rather put up with being male like I've always done than having to live my life as "that guy".

>>7779984
estrogen will make you lose your fertility eventually anyway so you can't take too long

>>7788112
>>7786871
Is this a new meme or what? Of course progesterone causes breast growth. It's not even permanent, if you stop using progesterone your boobs will shrink and then they'll grow back if you start using it again. How would that even work if it didn't cause breast growth?

>>7789135
You probably shouldn't transition if you don't have dysphoria anon. Earlier you start less likely you will be a hon. Not all effects are reversible if you have been transitioning for a longer than 8 months or so.

I've started randomly ejaculating what looks like real sperm on cypro, despite the fact i've been fappin' dry for a few months, what could be causing this?

im like half a week into hrt and like i dont feel dysphoric n shit really anymore

should i just stop???

i mean idk really like sometimes i feel really "dysphoric" and sometimes not and i really really dont want my boobs to be seen if for some reason i have to lift my shirt at a doc appointment

idk im just so fucking unsure

>>7789489
I don't know, I've never gotten diagnosed. But I've never gone to get checked either.

The thing is, I don't like being a man, I do feel like I should be a girl.

But i'm a decent looking guy, not great or anything, but decent enough. And I'm scared that if I go on HRT I will just make my life worst because I won't look like a girl and I will fuck my decent-looking boy.

>>7789505
The whole point of HRT is to stop making you feel dysphoric.

Do you like the fact you don't have a libido?

Anyways I'd suggest staying on it and waiting it out unless you really feel shit.

Not feeling dysphoric and then dysphoric again is kinda common anon. It happens.

>>7789536
>>Do you like the fact you don't have a libido?
i mean idk if i do have a libido?? hard to say

i mean i dont really give a fuck i guess, i just dont know wtf its just not there i guess

also i hate the term dysphoria for some reason its just so ugh

>>7789541
A libido is....

Do you like the fact you don't think of sex as much and don't have a boner in the morning or during the day?

That feeling like feeling like absolute garbage always comes back. At some point you either wanna kill yourself or you get tired of it and become apathetic. Then maybe optimistic, then shit again, then apathetic, then okay, then shit, ect, ect, ect.

>>7789553
>Do you like the fact you don't think of sex as much and don't have a boner in the morning or during the day?
i guess its kind of a distraction like just gets in the way and like i didnt get a hardon this morning when i got up i was like cool but the day before i did and i was like jesus christ fuck off retard

but like the other day i came out of the shower and like i had not shaved my chest for like 2 weeks and i was looking at it for like minutes and being like omg fuck this i dont want this i wanna fucking kill whoever invented testosterone and i was looking at my bod and being like holy fucking shit why even life that shit is gross i look like my fucking dad

>>7789560
but like my biggest doubt about hrt is boobs growing

that shit will be so fucking noticable some day and the doctors might see them and be like wtf ffs

>>7789568
That's kind of the knock on effect. I wasn't sold on them either way back when. You can say the thought grew on me ultimately. You'd just have to report at some point to a doctor what you are doing.

And what you mention is dysphria. General disgust for your body, generally favorable towards a more feminine one. Though with HRT the same rule applies as just not being on it. You can't exactly decide what you want to happen. That's just something you gotta roll with.

Do you do any blood work(blood testing)?

Femboy here. Been on spiro and estrogen but stopped. Will my moobs decrease in size eventually?

>>7789585
>Do you do any blood work(blood testing)?
cant, i live in a small ass shitty town so there are no private bloodwork clinics or whatever

i hope there are some in helsinki once im about to move there

but like this is weird, like when i look at some good looking guys im like "wouldnt mind being them" lol, the fuck is up with that

>>7789592

Let me ask you this. Would you feel comfortable being a qt femboi and then 30 years down the line look like an old man?

Or would you like to be as six-pack rockin' Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Or just be a normal mundane dude?

Just image those two very deeply. Would you really want to?

I'd normally say stick to the AA's if you are not doing bloodwork, but it can be safe for a good time. There's a private gender clinic option online in the uk if you are interested.

I've got my own shitty problems, it's probably why I am responding slow.

>>7789619
>30 years down the line look like an old man?
GROSS

>Or would you like to be as six-pack rockin' Arnold Schwarzenegger.
if i had his mind and body, sure

>Or just be a normal mundane dude?
im not sure i can being a 5'2 overall girly faggot to begin with

if i were a 6' jake gyllenhaalish figure i'd be so cool

>>7789623
>im not sure i can being a 5'2 overall girly faggot to begin with

You'll stop being girly eventually, and unless some amazing progress is made medically we'll all be old. We can at least choose the type of old.

>if i had his mind and body, sure

you can't have the mind, just the body.

Anyways I'd suggest visiting plebbit's transgender asking forum for a larger pool of answers. They are pretty active and have way more experience than I do with this.


Also, you're gonna ask yourself, deep down, why did you get the meds?

So I was on spiro for a couple of months when I was self medding then when the NHS finally sorted its shit out with me, I moved on to cypro and progynova. This is basically because I said I'd prefer to try that and not have the shitty spiro effects. My Dr seems like she'd basically put me on whatever I want. Does anyone with slight knowledge of NHS have a recommendation on what would be most ideal for me to move on to? Injections/patches/other meds?

>>7789637
>>
>Also, you're gonna ask yourself, deep down, why did you get the meds?
lol cuz i don't wanna be a gross old man

>>7789647
The best?

Well the "best" would probably implants.

Though if I had to tier it:

AA:

Implants?>Injectable AA->cypro->spiro/bica(depending on what you want it can be higher)

Implants?->Injectable estrogen->estrofem->progynova (there's also stickers and creams but I really don't know how to personally tier those).

>>7789658

Would you want to grow old as a woman?

Old men can be good-looking for an old man if they keep their condition and work out. Look at Arnold Schwarzenegger. Though it'll take a hit on you. Maybe in 2045-2050 we can all be 20 forever, but until then. That's the best.

Either grow old as a woman or man, or in between if you are (un)lucky

>>7789668
being a really old man is a gross idea
older women idk maybe too

i mean being really old is gross anyway

but like 40's i'll probably be a gross hairy bald midget

as a chick i can at least be cool

>>7789669

>as a chick i can at least be cool

Do you want to be a "chick". You'll have no direct control over how you'll look. Though you can take boob-control meds but....eh...?

Btw you ordered through qhi? Just curious

>>7789687
yeah QHI

i mean honestly fuck dude a chick as in a fuckin bitch as in a woman as in whatevs

i mean hey i've been told by my friends i'd so totally pass on hormones and i've been asked at bars if i were a boy or a girl lmfao

i'm so in

i mean i'm really just fucking freaking out over having to come out eventually and docs maybe noticing my boobs at checkups

>>7789699
Just tell them.

Chances are if you do it long enough you'll have a fast-pass in the clinics there.

I mean I had to go through it, and try explaining that to 30+ people you barely spoke to fulfill a quota.

>>7789741
>a quota
what?

like you had to go through what?

like you had to come out to 30+ people to get hrt? thats fucked up

i mean fucking hell i'll have to actually come out eventually and then it's a world of discrimination :^)

>>7789752
It's mandated you come out to people, but I am also DIY'ing because I STILL don't meet their quota's, which at this point are kinda unreasonable.

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>>7789765
where the fuck do you live that is incredibly fucking fucked up holy fucking shit
i would tell them to go fuck themselves holy shit that is incredibly unreasonable

This RLE shit is astounding. This should be illegal.

>>7789773
Somewhere in the land of dykes, windmills and weed.

It's mostly related by the fact I am stuck with my mother until June-August. Who'll not support me. Which I gave up with and am fine with. I can talk her in just putting up with changes for a few months, but nooooooooooo. I NEED her support. Even then I'd get shitty puberty blockers(they are good for when you WANT a testosterone boost for a few weeks) and no estrogen for at least 3 months.

where do you get your bicalutamide ?

>>7790166

Europe: Qhi(many countries have med import bans, qhi delivers within the EU, which has no issues generally)

UK: alldaychemist or qhi

Everywhere else: inhousepharma ,alldaychemist or qhi

>>7790203
scrap that

the UK is pretty much everywhere else.

>>7790203
THEY ADDED BICALUTAMIDE TO QHI
I am saved, no need to spend 70€ on alldaychemist
alleluia, thanks anon
Girlhood here I come

>>7789647
How long were you on the waiting list? Ive been since September.

>>7789659
You put the best and worst AA's as equal?

is progynova bad or anything ?

Why do I need to take Cypro with food?

>>7790676
Minimises stomach irritation and slows down release of the drug.

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Estrofem or Progynova.

What is better?

I'm 15 turning 16 in just over a month and I'm wondering what is best so I can get this done without wasting time.

>>7791402
Estrofem taken sublingually, as in allowed to sit under your tongue and absorb

>>7791411
Can progy work sublingually? I do it and it seems to help.

>>7787182
Is cypro really that bad for mental health compared to spiro?

Also I hope not.

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>>7791411
Why is this? Is estrofem stronger? Would it be really dumb of me to take both estrofem and progynova?

>>7791488
Personally I prefer progynova because it enters your blood with the -valerate attached. The valerate takes a bit of time to come off and to allow the estrogen to work, so you get a more slow/even release. If you sublingual estrofem you basically get a huge spike in blood estrogen right after you take it and it quickly drops down,. although stays at a relatively flat level for a while after.

As to strength I think they're similar but I'm not sure.

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>>7791503
Would it make sense for me to take estrofem more often and in higher doses then?

And is taking both a good idea?

>>7791503
Sublingual may have a high peak yes, but at least from this graph it seems to hover just above Progy or orally taken estrogen

>>7763247

>>7791517
Taking both seems needlessly complex and basically pointless. Just take one or the other.
I take progynova personally but some say estrogem is less hard on the liver. However, progy is slower/more even release.

Whatever you do, sublingual it.

>>7791526
That graph doesn't contain any info about progy. It's just estrofem. Sublingualing is more effective yes but estrogen spikes might be unhealthy so I recommend sublingual progy because you get the benefits of sublingual but the spike is more "smeared out" because of the gradual separation of the valerate.

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>>7791531
Damn, I'm confused as to what I should do now.

Is it basically confirmed though that Cyproterone is the best anti-androgen?

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>>7791582
I take bica. I used to take spiro.
I would say cypro is more effective than spiro.
But anyway I think bica is nicer than cypro, although I've never taken cypro. But bica has less off target side effects, and is less hard on the liver etc. And also bica activate the androgen receptor at all whereas cypro and spiro slightly activate it.

But people will tell you different things. Bica just seems like a "cleaner" and more "targeted" AA to me.

>>7791615
doesn't activate the androgen receptor at all*

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>>7791615
So does bicalutamide not cause infertility like cyproterone and spyronolactone?

>>7791582
>>7791615
Also you should be taking enough estrogen that you don't really need to rely on an AA that much IMO. People used to not take AAs at all and just take high doses of estrogen. I think estrogen should be the main 'AA' while the AAs just act to 'close the gap' and suppress the remaining testosterone production/activity. Here I'm talking about the classical antiandrogens (spiro, cypro, bica) and not GnRH agonists (AKA "puberty blockers") or anything like that.


I think people tend to focus too much on lowering T to 0 but don't realize that raising E is very important and that E actually suppresses the production of T.
That's just my personal take on it though.

>>7791644
Bica alone (without estrogen) doesn't cause infertility because it doesn't block testosterone to the infertile point in the testicles (so you keep producing sperm), because the testicles have super high local levels of testosterone that bica can't hope to compete with. However, elsewhere in the body it can successfully block the effects of testosterone.

If you take estrogen though as I said estrogen suppresses testosterone production and if you take enough of it you might end up becoming infertile regardless.

>>7791654
yeah well some people dont have the fucking money to be taking 6-8 mg daily

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>>7791654
>>7791670
What's the best form of Cyproterone and Progynova/Estrofem? I see the charts linked by OP show different ones.

>>7791615
About how much bica do you need to block all the androgen receptors in your body 24/7? Wikipedia says 150mg/day binds to 100% of androgen receptors, but that's expensive as fuck.

>>7789560
>being like "omg fuck this, i don't want this, i wanna fucking kill whoever invented testosterone"
>and i was looking at my bod and being like "holy fucking shit, why even life, that shit is gross, i look like my fucking dad".
So "gender dysphoria" is what happens when son must live with a disgusting dad who likes to parade topless at home.

Also fixed your punctuation for you.

>>7791800
my dad died when i was 8 tho

>>7791811
and yea saying i look like my dad was pretty bleh but like "gross man" then i guess

also gee thanks for fixing my punctuation

>>7789619
>a private gender clinic option online in the uk
where

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>>7789669
>being a really old man is a gross idea
>older women idk

>>7789668
>Would you want to grow old as a woman?
>Old men can be good-looking for an old man if they keep their condition and work out.

>>7770954

Ive been on 4mg for estrogen for 4 months now and I was wondering if I should up my dose to 6mg?

I'm taking estrofem sublingually and I heard that taking a dose midday can help keep the levels steady.

I'm seeing breast growth and feminization but I'm worried that I could be cutting myself short by not taking more. Cypro is the AA if that matters.

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>>7787580
>E on its own requires possibly many many months to achieve T downregulation
Does it mean that it's POSSIBLE to obtain benefits of estrogen WITHOUT losing the benefits of testosterone – if you megadose estrogen only twice a year, for 2 months at a time?

How many weeks does one vial of these injections last?:

https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-1162-estradiol-valerate-injection-100mg5ml.aspx

>>7792069
10 weeks on the average dose of 10mg/week. That's ripoff tier. Just get the 10mg amps.

I've been on HRT for 8 months, and taking 4mg estradiol and 200mg spiro for 6 months. I don't ejaculate when I orgasm and my insurance won't cover bicalutamide. Would it be an okay idea to only take half my spiro? Or will that fuck shit up?

>>7791727
That amount is only used for cancer patients.
50mg a day should be more than plenty