Surely being trans isn't as bad as people say. >Not

>>7716489
>create a child
>raise her unable to cope as a man
>not deserving to be put through hell

>>7716491
correct

>>7716499
bait

>>7716516
being vindictive isn't a good thing
not even on people who have wronged you

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>>7716489
>Having crippling depression and social anxiety
I'm sure most people feel this way at some point or another.

But you have been raised to think you are worthless, so your relief would not be worth your families pain, so at 12 you try to klill yourself so they never have to be embarressed their son wanted to be a girl. You fuck up and end up hospitalizing yourself, but still keep the girl thing to yourself.

Your father tells you nothing could be worse than having a faggot for a son.

So when you turn 18 you run away and begin a new life...

>idk, maybe thats just me

>>7716531
it's not vindictive. just karma and not something that they can legitimately object to.

>>7716531
They aren't on hormones or paying for it.

If they are truly being put through hell it's of their own volition.

>>7716554
the principal of karma is that it's cosmic
as in, fate, or luck or whatever will dispense the justice
not somebody looking to even the score

>>7716568
>person transitions to feel at peace with themselves
>the people who suffer are the people who made her suffer
karma.

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>>7716532
>I'm sure most people feel this way at some point or another.

What is Confirmation Bias?
Depression affects about 6.7 percent of the U.S. population age 18 and older.

https://www.adaa.org/about-adaa/press-room/facts-statistics

>>7716572
>"We don't want you to do this, it would hurt us"
>*does it anyway*
that is a calculated decision with intended malice
not cosmic justice for a perceived ill intent

but this wasn't what the thread was about at all

>>7716629
>I will be always unhappy unless I do this
>We don't give a shit that it's your life, the pain you're causing with decision that doesn't really affect us outweighs your pain
Intended malice maybe, on the part of parents doing anything to make sure their child kills themselves.

>>7716629
>ignoring someone who caused you suffering when they try to emotionally blackmail you
>calculated malice
choose one.

>>7716666
ignoring it doesn't mean that you aren't causing people grief

>>7716489
>just deal with it
That's what transitioning is, you ignorant mong. If your loved ones won't listen and understand that it is the prescribed treatment for a medical condition you have, then they can just "go through hell". Like actually being trans isn't 100 times worse than simply knowing someone who is trans.

>>7716683
So... what?
Or is leaving abusive partner also wrong since you'll be causing them grief?

>>7716683
>live for yourself
>this causes grief for people who hurt you
>when they are the ones who made you do it
>somehow this is malice on my part and nor karma for them

>>7716701
not the definition of karma, no
that's my only point of contention

It's still justice in your eyes I'm sure

>>7716489
What if someone's family are Christian Scientists, meaning they only believe in the power of prayer and that all sickness is merely illusion that can only be cured through prayer?
Should they never seek any medical treatment because their family disagrees?
Should they just die of cancer because getting chemo would put their family through hell?

>>7716690
that's kinda what I wanted to hear

or rather what I knew someone was going to say

>>7716712
depends on how close together the family is really
how do the amish deal with germs and bacterial infections?

>>7716690
>you ignorant mong
woah, let's keep it civil yeah?
this is just a thought experiment, no need to get upset

>>7716708
it is the very definition of karma. their own mistreatment comes back to bite them in a perfectly fitting way.

why dont you stop gaslighting us and believe what we say when we talk about our own mental experiences and why we transition?

>>7716721
>how do the amish deal with germs and bacterial infections?
Apparently they try treating it at home unless it's sufficiently serious, then they resort to modern medicine.

>>7716729
not when you're the one doing it
and yes, transitioning is an action that you take

just because you're deadset on doing it doesn't mean that the consequences of doing it disappear

>>7716721
The Amish actually don't have any issues with modern medical treatments and seeking them, apart from abortion and birth control. Unless you're talking Old Order Amish, but those guys are like the strictist of the strict.

>>7716746
just because you're triggered by my actions doesn't mean the consequences of them aren't karmic justice.

>>7716727
You're on 4chan, faggot. "Ignorant mong" is actually pretty civil.

>>7716752
that has absolutely nothing to do with anything

look, if someone steals from me, and I shoot him, me shooting him wasn't karma, that's just retribution

if someone steals from me, they get away, and they get hit by a bus and die, THAT's karma

does that make sense to you?

>>7716737
what is gaslighting

>>7716776
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+gaslighting%3F

>>7716489

So do you think there's some kind of low upper bound on how terrible not feeling comfortable in your own skin feels?

That no humans or group of humans (trans people are ~0.6% of the population) could exceed? Because, uh, maybe visit a psychiatric ward to ground yourself in how extreme people with rare psychological conditions can get.

Try telling someone who's freaking out because it seems like all of their friends and family were replaced by strangers wearing their skin as a disguise that their worries seem like no big deal.

Or that someone with an IQ of 80 just needs to try *really* hard to get a PhD in astrophysics. There's a lot of psychological variation among humans.

Just because your normie brain can't imagine feeling as terrible as trutrans about how your body was formed doesn't mean no one is capable of feeling that way.

>>7716790
Oh, if if you feel that way then perhaps you should exit the thread. Thanks for your thoughts!

>>7716737
I'd just like something to compare it to

even people suffering from psychosis can learn to live with it, and that is widely regarded as a very, very serious condition
GID seems like it should be further down on the list of severe illnesses

Obvious bait is obvious.

>>7716793
is or isn't GID a mental illness?
I'm not being funny, I don't actually know

And why don't you tell me how it feels. That's what I want to know.
Be as detailed as you can

>>7716806
But why should they "learn to live with it", when it can be treated? That's just irresponsible to encourage literally psychotic people to not get treated.

>>7716828
'treat' is a flimsy term for psychosis
you can dull the symptoms but it's always there

This is good, we're having civilised discussions
There's hope yet

>>7716839
That's why I said treated and not cured. And that's still not a good reason to avoid treatment.

>>7716489
Being trans is like having cancer except there isn't a good treatment and people call you faggot instead of feeling bad for you

>>7716850
there's zero reason to avoid treatment
and this has nothing to do with anything, let's get back on track

>>7716863
Now I can speak from experience here because I have actually had cancer.
I found a lump in my back, went to the doctor, they MRI'd it, diagnosed it as a schwanoma (I think). I did a round of chemo and surgery to remove it. Cancer free since.
How are they similar?

>>7716877
You stupid faggot, you should have just lived with the lump. There's no reason to mutilate your body with chemicals and surgery, you just needed therapy to learn to accept it.

>>7716884
That would have been very foolish and you know it.

"not comfortable" is a weird way to phrase it.

Trans people experience disassociation, where their body doesn't feel like it is attached to their mind. Their brain does not experience the secondary sex characteristics that it is expecting to, and so constantly, all the time, sends out massive "WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG" signals. It's the emotional feeling of having a limb ripped from your body without the physical pain.

>>7716491
I feel sorry for your parents
They must be wonderful people to still put up with you even after you put them through hell and still don't show the slightest bit of gratitude about it

>>7716898
>emotional feeling of having a limb ripped from your body
you mean like people with phantom limb syndrome?

I don't mean the physical pain of the limb, I mean they occasionally get sad about having lost it.
I don't know what else 'emotional pain' could mean :/

>>7716900
You're going to have to explain more about how being trans is putting other people through hell.
By your logic, having any severe medical condition and getting it treated is putting your family through hell.
You should go to a children's cancer ward and tell them all to stop putting their families through hell.

>>7716900
>not being grateful for having to live the wrong sex
>not being grateful for being forced to act the wrong gender

>>7716915
you can't expect people to feel sorry for you when they can't even imagine how any of that causes you any grief

>>7716914
I was replying to a poster who said their parents deserved hell and they don't regret putting them through that
I don't have to explain something someone admitted

>>7716911
Nah, not like, the occasional sad about having lost it. Like that immediate gut reaction the brain sends directly after the limb has been lost: "YOU ARE IN DANGER. SOMETHING VERY BAD HAS HAPPENED. FIX IT OR YOU WILL DIE." Basic but pervasive lizard-brain kind of stuff.

Except it doesn't just happen once, because the brain keeps realizing that the problem is still there, the body is still not right, fix it.

>>7716825

GID is something weird that happens with your brain. Saying whether it "is" or "isn't" a mental illness doesn't give any new information about how it actually works. Just how the medical community and society treats it.

It's like asking if Pluto is a planet or if atheism is a religion. The debate doesn't really get to the heart of how any of these things work.

You can read /lgbt/ yourself. You're literally on an anon message board where people bitch about being dysphoric 24/7. If you want a personally tailored and interactive account of grief and dysphoria, please ask someone else.

>>7716914
in "treating" you it's also killing you
the person they knew as their son is essentially dead so that you can be this girl they've never met

I hate to sound cliche, but try to look at things from other peoples perspectives

>>7716929
That's when you just trust the person and take their word for it. I've never broken a leg, but I'm not going to tell someone to suck it up and walk on a broken leg.

>>7716915
>I should kill my mom for making me a boy when I was inside her body
>She could have laid with her legs stretched and eaten peppers every day to make sure I was born a girl

>>7716943
But I have a leg
I can imagine the pain of it being broken

I don't have a lost gender
I don't feel pain being a man

>>7716943
Because nobody has ever lied and certainly a trans person wouldn't lie of all people

>>7716940
>I hate to sound cliche, but try to look at things from other peoples perspectives

Real ironic. Why don't tell the people "going through hell" this?
They need to listen to and trust their family member, since they are actually the one going through it. I understand initially being upset, but if you can't get over your own pain long enough to come to an understanding of your loved one's pain, you're fucking selfish as shit.

>>7716938
just a ballpark would be nice
can I at least get that?

which is worse, being a man, or being heroin junky

Can you do that without spending a paragraph explaining why they cannot be measured against each other?
If not, THAT is my problem.

>>7716962
Imagine if you feel a kind of pain you can't even describe but only sometimes and you go to the doctor and he tells you that everything is perfectly fine and that pain is only in your head
So you go to therapy to get better but the therapist isn't allowed to help you with it because someone somewhere has decided it makes more sense for you to get rid of the part of your body that causes the pain instead of treating your mental condition even if in most cases the pain doesn't stop anyways after the surgery

>>7716976
Here is a tip for you because it's going to come handy in the future
Whenever you access another person regardless of gender, sex, age , race, wathever you should assume that person is going through hell because more likely than not that's the case

>>7716976
again

they can't see evidence
they have no proof, only what you say
for some people, that isn't enough to go on,which is fair
if you suspect someone is ill, the last person you're going to trust for a diagnosis is them

all they can see is someone they love hurting themselves and thinking that they're making themselves better
that's a lot to go through

and I'm not saying they're right to think that

>>7717024
>for some people, that isn't enough to go on,which is fair
Sympathy is a basic human emotion. If someone can't comprehend sympathy, I don't consider it "fair" to the person who is suffering.

If they love them, they should be able to trust them. And through that, they should be able to sympathize with the pain. If neither of those things is possible, it is not a healthy relationship.

>>7717000
you didn't really explain the pain
only that it can't be described
but it's fine

>>7717043
Like not to be an ass, but the pain has been described by an anon over here >>7716933

>>7716963
We are talking family and close friends here. If they can't trust me, I'm not going to waste time catering to their feelings.

>>7717042
I've been around heroin addicts when they're trying to get clean.
Normally nice people turn into lying, cheating, devious bastards. Begging me to go and get them a bit of H. Telling me that they're in agony and they NEED it or they're going to die.
If I was a total asshole who lacked any empathy, I would do what they wanted and trust in their judgement.

>>7717051
so what was the 'getting rid of the part of your body that causes pain' metaphor?

>>7717058
Family and close friends are the people most likely to lie to you
Would a random stranger lie to you? Why? What would he gain?

>>7716933
>"YOU ARE IN DANGER. SOMETHING VERY BAD HAS HAPPENED. FIX IT OR YOU WILL DIE."
I'm not sure I've ever experience that
maybe that one time I stabbed myself with a stanley knife, but that's not a fair test since I did actually cause myself harm and there was a lot of blood

christ, this is harder than I thought it would be
maybe my brain just lacks the capacity to imagine it, like an alien language

>>7717062
Withdrawal from heroin can actually feels like hell and that you are going to die. They weren't lying about that or being "devious", that is what they were genuinely feeling in that moment.

The difference here is that being trans is completely different issue from drug addiction. If you asked a mental health professional or opened a copy of the dsm, you'd see that transitioning is the proper treatment for gender dysphoria. You're being willfully ignorant.

>>7716489
problem is
if theraphy doesnt work
and transittion clearly doesnt work either
there seems to be no way of actualy helping trans people

>>7717072
Sorry, I'm a different anon, so the difference in metaphor is probably the difference between MtF & FtM.

>Get rid of it
MtF who has bits the brain thinks should not be there, still a SOMETHING IS WRONG scream, but a different kind. It's just easier to describe a sense of something missing that shouldn't be than the sense of something being there that shouldn't be.

I think I'm tired of feeding the troll. This one was fun, though. Got to exercise a different kind of debate rationalization than I normally get to use with the "DIE TRANNY" breed.

Had a good time, peace out guys & gals.

>>7717096
I'm asking you to help me understand
if you don't want to then fine, thanks for your time, adios

but don't insult me because I'm not understanding it all perfectly

and I know what being strung out feels like, I also know that I'd have said the same thing in their position, that doesn't change anything

>>7717116
you must live a very fufilling life

>>7717116
I've been here for over 2 hours and I'm STILL a troll?
jeez

well I had fun too, so thanks for your time

>>7717117
Well, every time someone tries to tell you how it feels, you just go "nope, not understanding. try again". I don't think any explanation is going to satisfy you.

>>7717125
troll is a buzzword anywas, it doesnt mean anything anymore

>>7717136
Nobody has ever tried explaining how it feels
only that it is the worst pain imaginable

I've got 3 accounts from 3 different people and they're all abstract

doesn't look like this can be translated to non-trans people, which is a shame and also highly suspect

>>7717157
>highly suspect
Why? For example, I don't think the average schizophrenic, especially an untreated one, could tell you in precise, non-abstract terms how schizophrenia feels.

>>7717178
These are the symptoms of schizo as per the NHS

hallucinations
delusions
muddled thoughts
changes in behaviour

those are pretty relateable
I can empathise with schizos because I've experienced these before
you get me?

The page on gender dysphoria simply says
>Adults with gender dysphoria can feel trapped inside a body that doesn't match their gender identity.
which doesn't help

anyway, I think I'm done with this, I'm getting nowhere
thanks for posting

>>7717209
>as per the NHS
kek

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>>7716489
You don't understand the darkness then, silly OP, and you never will.

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>it's another "/lgbt/ takes the bait" episode

>>7716981
That's subjective and depends on the person, no one can give you a good answer.

>>7716489
I don't blame you for wondering this considering how annoying the trans community generally is. Yes, most people feel uncomfortable in their skin at some point but the difference between that, whether it be obesity, bdd, or just poor body image and being trans is there's no out (besides transitioning). Gender dysphoria will never go away and can really fuck some people up. You can solve pretty much any other issue through therapy, exercise, learning to love yourself, etc. But when you're trans none of that works. The only option is to transition in order minimize gender dysphoria. However, I do think some people need to tough it out depending on their circumstances and wait for a more convenient time to transition.

the libs are eating themselves alive!
i love it!

>>7716489
...but muh highest rate of murder victim

>>7717906
I don't want to bump because the thread has served it's purpose, but I was here for over 2 hours chatting to people and getting good insight.
It was mutually beneficial.

Be glad that there are people willing to represent you whom actually partake in civil discussion, and don't immediately call "TROLL" and declare themselves the victor of an imaginary argument.