A lot of 'arguments' directed at trans kids seem to

Cara, you realize that if you like SJW Universe you're probably trutrans right? You should stop repressing already.

>posting steven jewniverse unironically

>>7525588
Yes, my mother always told me how much she wanted a daughter and how much she wished that myself and my brothers had been girls. She dressed me up as a girl and made me do girly things with her. It fucked me up, made me want to be transgender, and I'm just glad that my father was around because if he hadn't I would have transitioned. After much introspection and meditation I realized my gender dysphoria was due to my mother and I have overcome it 100%

>>7525588
I'd be worried about young gender non conforming children being suggestible.

Even in late childhood/early teens when my AGP was starting to bloom I would of been quite suggestible. I mean shit if you would of told me that me wanting to crossdress and fantasize about being a woman was a medical condition and that i'm really a boy with a girl brain, I would of been all over that shit.

Luckily I was 16 in 2000 so I missed the transcult by a mile. Then again i'm an aging masc AGP dude so maybe i'm not so lucky.

>>7525588
Well they certainly could tell their kids that they're trans and to say so to doctors, some people are known to falsely claim illness in children or other close family for attention.

The thing is that they don't just ask if you want to transition, check off a box that says tranny on some form, and send you out the door with a lifetime supply of hormones and a do-it-yourself at-home grs kit. It's a process that takes years and especially for kids it starts with a LOT of therapy during which time it's almost certain something amiss would be caught especially with all the attention on trans kids right now.

If you're asking if they could literally brainwash a kid into being trans and not just abuse them into acting then no, all the relevant research suggests that trying to change someone's gender orientation doesn't work which is the whole reason for all this tranny shit.

>>7525696
That's the thing about anonymous imageboards. No matter what you say, there will be someone who disagrees with a completely unverifiable personal anecdote.

>>7525751
>I'd be worried about young gender non conforming children being suggestible.
That is generally a valid concern but when you get any less vague most of what people are afraid will happen/is happening is based on their ignorance of the actual process, I usually see assumptions that boys will be told they're trans and pushed to transition as soon as possible just for liking pink or wanting to wear clothes that are traditionally more feminine or the same will be done to girls just for being gay or rejecting hobbies that are considered traditionally feminine.

Now about agp... the idea comes from a diactomy of transsexual catagorisation and both groups were considered valid in need to transition. The whole "agp versus trutrans" thing is more internet memes and a vague bastardised idea of agp being used to imply perversion or illegitimacy behind trannies.

I'm not saying "oh you're definately just a confused tranny you must take hrt immediately and get your junk chopped" but you seem like you might be confused about some stuff.

>>7526582
It depends on how well the doctors are gatekeeping transkids. I'm not too familiar with the process.

I've had years to think about my condition. I don't consider myself a woman just a male with AGP. But some would say i'm trans. Even if AGPs are valid, AGP transition seems so fake, like their just giving in to a disorder. I have a lot of interalized transphobia I guess.

>>7525588
This is the most backwards bullshit. I literally fight with my parents tooth and nail about my identity all the time. 2.5 years later they STILL don't consider me legit. I told them I was going to get a consultation for SRS and they ranted on the phone with me for 2 hours about "How could I possibly mutilate my manhood..."

All that plus now they are talking about this "4th way trans" Bullshit (read: One shitty trans person who didn't turn into an animu girl so is now out to try and convince everyone else being trans is horrible and that they will also regret it...)


Annnnny way. This whole thread sounds like some sort of crazy distant future to me. Clearly Tumbler trans problems or some shit.

>>7526682
>Even if AGPs are valid, AGP transition seems so fake, like their just giving in to a disorder. I have a lot of internalized transphobia I guess.
Yeah, it really seems that you don't understand the theory and are just projecting your personal feelings on a convenient authority.

Regardless of what you are you seem like you should seek some help and talk to professionals, best of luck!

>>7526699
Thirdwaytrans in the house awww yeah. Or did your parents mean 4thwavenow?Tell your parents to check out Mark and Lynna(transition radio) on youtube while their at it.

>>7526712
Ok i'm just projecting my personal feelings true. From my understanding of AGP it is an erotic target location error where a heterosexual man seeks out a relationship with himself as his woman.

So to me that seems less valid than an HSTS who was a little girl since day one and wants to become a woman.

>>7526760
Yet both groups were considered valid in their need to transition and you're completely misunderstanding hsts. They were not considered "reel womyn" inside or whatever but extremely effeminate gays that couldn't be accepted in society or accept themselves as males because of how gay they are. In fact many believe that the entire theory and research was designed and intentionally flawed in order to be a back door to getting homosexuality classified as mental illness again, an open goal of many of the researchers and their academic and financial supporters. Things like going into sex work were considered positive for the hsts group and the agp group was more of a catch-all for anyone who didn't meet the desired expectations for hsts.

>>7526760
According to that theory a HSTS is a very gay man who is so gay he can't function as a man.
ETLEs are unfalsifiable and have no concrete data backing them.

Anyone who thinks there are more than 2 genders is a nigger.

>>7526801
Um, ok?

I don't think anyone in the thread was actually talking about that.

>>7526788
>>7526795
Now I know Blanchard didnt consider hsts real woman, but to me as a straight male "agp" they seem closer to what a woman should be therefore to me they seem more valid.

I'll admit that Blanchardian AGP seems pretty far fetched. But I see some hons that are so cringey and fetishistic. I've been told in the past that "look at those hons" is not a scientific argument.

>>7526814
The whole theory is bonkers. That there are some cringe-inducing people doesn't make it valid, yeah.

>>7526498
That's not true at all. One time I posted my opinion, and the whole thread replied and agreed with me.

[spoiler]:^)[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I'm still mad /lgbt/ doesn't have spoilers[/spoiler]

Children are extremely impressionable, and will trust their parents on a lot of shit.

fuck that stupid tacky television show

>>7525588

Pretty much all the prominent detransitioners came from parents who, intentionally or not, brainwashed them into thinking this way.

>>7526699

Do you realise that between 7 billion people on the planet, not all parents are going to be like yours?

>>7527011
>Pretty much all the prominent detransitioners
[citation needed]
t. someone who's met several detransitioners, some prominent, and some who i knew when they were transitioned

That kind of thing only comes up with shitty parents who thrust their child into the spot light so they can pat themselves on the back for having a special kid and being so amazing about handling it. It's perfectly valid to question these peoples' motives, parenting skills, and their kid's wellbeing.

Most parents of trans kids who are cool about it just quietly do what it takes to keep the kid happy and healthy, same as any other parent.
Fortunately for the kids, they're not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately for trans people, this means the general public only ever sees really bad, sensationalised and tonally predatory examples of childhood transition. So it builds up to a really negative image of what it means to be a transgender kid, and people make judgements off of that. And that trickles back into the minds of trans kids figuring themselves out and the minds of the parents who have to decide what to do about it.
So all in all, fuck that shit.

>>7527041

By "pretty much all" I obviously mean't "most of the few I've personally come across," come on anon it's a figure of speech.
And If you can't think of a single example, then I don't know why you're waving your credentials around. And I also wonder why you think anyone detransitions (or incorrectly transitions) in the first place.

>>7527056
>mean't
Aaand that's my cue to go to bed.

>>7527056
>And I also wonder why you think anyone detransitions (or incorrectly transitions) in the first place
there are a few reasons:
>trendscum (even fucking milo stewart is on t)
>severe dysphoria that is -not- sex dysphoria (it's a general term), but gets mistaken for sex dysphoria and motivates a transition
>not seeing a place in society for a gnc person without transitioning
>social contagion (ties in with #1 and also #3, given 'doesn't see a place in society for me without being trans' can come with 'all my friends who are like me are transitioning now')
>discovered an anti-trans ideology (usually radical feminism) and concluded they could manage their dysphoria in a better way
>was abused and used maladaptive coping mechanisms for abuse, like transition
those are the most common reasons i've seen
usually the detransers talk about the last two because those are the ones that make them seem like victims of the trans cult rather than people whose problems are their own fault

>parents convincing their pre-teen/teen kids to do anything good for themselves is pretty much impossible
>surprisingly, convincing them to go through mental anguish and transition so they can be a social pariah and publicly humiliated is so easy you can accidentally do it by not teaching your son to man-up enough
>transphobes actually believe this

It doesn't matter if the kid is actually trans or not a child can NOT make that kind of decision

>>7527160
All of my choices that my parents shot down were 10x more intelligent and thoughtful than the stupid shit they believed

>>7527160
With all due respect, this is one of those things where that's actually not true. Gender dysphoria is an extremely dangerous congenital disorder that is not yet recognized as such, and needs to be treated early, or else 40% of these kids will end up killing themselves.

>>7527255
If that's true then why didn't any of my multiple suicude attempts ever actually kill me?

>>7527295
You were probably using unreliable methods. Also, women are more likely to attempt suicide, but less likely to actually succeed, so it makes sense statistically.

In any case, any one of those attempts could have actually killed you, and you have a desire to kill yourself regardless, which would probably not be the case if your parents had gotten out in front of this and put you on blockers early.

>>7527309
The first time I tried to asphyxiate myself but it turns out the stove turns itself off if the door is ajar for too long.

The second time I froze my arm in ice then cut open my wrist 'down the street' and tried to sleep until I bled out. I couldn't sleep, and I was getting the impression it wouldn't work, so I wrapped it and cleaned up. My therapist said very few people could cut as deeply as I did.

The third time I drove to a cliff and was drinking vodka there to get the courage to jump, when the police saw my car's lights and, thinking I was selling drugs in the area, searched my car and me, and confiscated my alcohol.

Occasional other times I made pretend attempts.

And it was all worth living in the end because now I'll get to destroy my family's reputation and be a disgusting 6'2" hon with a head the size of a wagon.

>>7527342
I'm 5'8'' and pass and I'm probably still going to kill myself tbqh. You're stronger than I am.

>>7525751
Haha, sad hon.

Look at how much happier the Femboys and others who aren't trans but got on moans are

Now you're doomed to be Stephoknee

>>7526814
>but to me as a straight male "agp" they seem closer to what a woman should be therefore to me they seem more valid
Ok, but you realise you're literally arguing "muh feels" for how it seems to you like things should work and simultaneously denying the validity of gay people because it's further from how people "should" be.
That's ok, you can think "this is how things probably are because I feel it should be so" but don't expect for it to hold any weight in conversations about medicine and science.
>I'll admit that Blanchardian AGP seems pretty far fetched. But I see some hons that are so cringey and fetishistic.
And there are are plenty of cringy fetishistic gay and straight people....
>I've been told in the past that "look at those hons" is not a scientific argument.
I mean, if you have a problem with that then you don't really seem to "get" this whole "science" thing at all desu.

>>7526975
I see, you're saying we should ban all medical and psychological care for minors just in case it's one of the rare instances of them faking for attention.

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>Liking gay space rocks = trutrans

Hmm

>>7527160
Nice argument, we should totally just start ignoring what dumb old doctors say and go to 4chan anons whenever we want to know if it's ok for minors to get particular medical treatment.

>>7527295
Wow, I mean, MULTIPLE suicide attempts is kind of an argument for letting kids get treatment.

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Of course not. I am trans and I made it clear to my parents even as a kid but my parents tried to convince me all those years I wasn't so how can you POSSIBLY convince someone they are trans even though they aren't? Protip: You can't.

>>7525696
>[Prepaid Breitbart post]
Thank you for redpilling us. 5 Reichsmarks have been deposited into your account.

>>7526699
Well, your parents are right. Being trans is a mental disease and they are fighting for your sanity.

>>7527022
You do realize that the Majority of parents/family are NOT supportive. Why do you think when you look at any trans resources about coming out they spend so much talking about dealing with negative reactions etc.

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>>7529209
What percentage of families would allow their male child to wear a dress to high school?

>>7526498
>>7529209
Tbqh I was just posting my personal situation. I'm not invalidating any transperson or their experience. Everyone is different. I did not end up growing up to be 100% straight, I am bi-sexual but do not act on my urges to have sex with men. If you're trans, good on you, but it's not for everyone and there are people out there who are confused and hurt from emotionally abusive situations growing up.

>>7527309
It is so strange, but the suicide topic really atracted me, it's more like I didn't want to commit suicide, but I wanted to never have existed.

It's like I really hate the way I am, to the point that I don't want to even been small part of the history of the Universe.

>>7525588
You can convince a kid of anything. They're very easy to program.

>>7525675
Woah. /co/mrade here. Thought this was /lgbt/ not /pol/.

>>7525588
>what is david reimer
nope

>>7530328
>what is Nicole Maines
yep

>>7530156
not even him/her but that show is sjw garbage

>>7531174
i fuckin love it so fuck you

i cried at stevonnie

>>7525588
I doubt that could be possible, sure, maybe they could majorly fuck their kid up like >>7525696 but I'm near sure that with most cases there is some sort of predisposition or inkling of already being trans.

>>7526498
Also don't forget the golden rule, there is a direct correlation between the amount of time you spend flushing out your argument, and the likelihood of it being utterly ignored.

>>7530332
Nicole Maines is probably trutrans, the real tragedy is that she forced her even truer trans sibling into repression.

>>7527506
No your totally right the science is what matters. What feels intuitive and right is not always correct. So I fit the AGP box quite well and have experienced varying degrees of dysphoria throughout my life. I honestly believe if I had been born in the 2000s instead of the 80s i'd be a pill popping tranny by now. Should I consider myself trans instead of a straight man with AGP?

>>7531985
i dunno, do you want to kill yourself?

i'm roughly the same age as you and I've started transitioning, consequences be damned. but I'm pretty certain I'm gonna die from my depression if I don't do something radical anyway so wtf ever

if it wasn't ridiculously obvious that I'm incapable of being a functional human & closeted simultaneously then I probably would be too busy pursuing intellectual/artistic passions, making scads of cash, and loving my friends and family.

>>7525696
My mom did the same in very weird subtle ways. She would make me have long hair and not let me play with other boys or roughhouse. I wanted a TMNT actionfigure and she got me a Barbie and a Ken. I just took the Ken and pretended he was Terminator.

I mean, at the time if she asked me if I wanted to be a girl, I probably would have said yes and I've grown to very much identify with being male.

Kids do weird things. For example, me and my brother used to tuck our dicks to make them look like a vagina, flash people and say we were girls. We just thought it was funny and my mom started latching onto it, I vaguely remember.

I can't imagine how ruined my life would be if my mom put me on hormones at an early age and made me go through life as a goddamn trans person. Respect to them but I don't want that struggle.

>>7525751
Are you straight?

>>7525588
no, i don't think so.

>>7532012
I had a really bad dysphoria attack around 30 as I started to unrepress. Part of me wanted to die but I was too scared to transition. So I started smoking a lot of weed and now I feel a lot better. I'm kinda repressing by choosing not to transition asap, but at least i'm doing it consciously rather than subconsciously now.

I think I only have moderate dysphoria now and i'll have a higher quality of life larping as a cismale. I like some aspects of testosterone. I'd be open to HRT if I really did have a "transgender" brain that'd benefit from estrogen. I've seen too many unhappy trannies on the net who are deeply unhappy despite transitioning. Since i'm a big masc hon, transition is just asking for trouble.

>>7532035
Yes mostly straight. I'm quite attracted to trannies and crossdressers as well. The idea of being with a man as a woman is very arousing. But i'm really not attracted to dudes unless i'm horny. Even then masc/older dudes are a turn off.

>>7527073

Yeah honestly I don't even know what I was thinking with that comment. I was 20 hours into the day running on 2 hours sleep, at the end of a long week of similar deprivation, so I was kind of retarded.

>>7525588
>psychologically possible for a parent to convince their child that they're trans?
I can't see why that wouldn't be possible.
If people can delude themselves into suffering from diseases, while they're actually perfectly healthy, I'm sure you can delude a child into believing it's trans.

>>7531570
Could you expand on that, or give a source?

>>7531174
Have you watched it ? I don't really see what's that sjw in there. It's not like every character are queer or anything. Plus all the shit that you could consider sjw like [spoiler]Garnet being technically a couple by being a fusion, Pearl being in love with Rose or even a girl and a boy fusionning[/spoiler] are kind of implicit and not thrown at you like "OMH THEY'RE TOTALLY LESBIAN"

>>7532965
In the book it says that her brother also crossdressed, he posts pictures of himself in makeup and drag on his social media accounts and there are even some pics of him dressing up as his own sister. They are trans sisters, like the Wachowskis, except only one was chosen.

>>7533902
It could be that their parents weren't okay with not having grandkids, so they pressured one of them to not even seek transition.

>>7525588
Yeah I suppose it is i was once convinced by a friend that babies were hatched from eggs like in alien so the sky is the ducking limit man, kids are very easily manipulated.

>>7530156
>Thought this was /lgbt/ not /pol/.

Not much of a difference desu

>>7527295
>if multiple suicide attempts is good enough for me, it's good enough for the next generation that could be better done by
someone's bitter

>>7529209

Majority =/= all

A lot of parents are against kids being gay too, but a straight friend of mine has a mother who always tries to get him to come out as gay to her whenever she gets tipsy because she's just so desperate for a gay son.

Some parents are abusive in a sense of shoving unnecessary pills down their kids' throats for "mental illnesses" that they don't really have because it's an easy way to control them, some parents are abusive in a sense of preventing their child with very real mental issues from getting the help that they need. One doesn't prevent the other, these are both real things that happen.

And just like their are parents who will try and suppress a trans child, their are parents who will accept a trans child, and parents who will desire a trans child (or incidentally desire a child of the opposite sex to the one they have).

Shit can go different ways with different people.

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gays cant urinate

>>7525588
>but is it actually psychologically possible for a parent to convince their child that they're trans?
No, it is psychologically impossible for a child to believe they're trans if they aren't.

>>7530328

One doesn't have to actually be trans to be convinced they're trans. I don't think OP's talking about people actually becoming trans, but just being pressured into thinking it and possibly transitioning at a vulnerable age.

If children are actually brainwashed into becoming trans, it's less of a problem, because in that scenario they'll be happy enough living as the opposite sex. The problem lies in potentially being convinced to go through with something that they don't actually want, because it sets them up to just transition back later in life a lot worse for wear.

Personally, while I think anything's possible, and that this scenario would be tragic, I doubt that families with such a specific dynamic and access to such irresponsible doctors are plentiful enough to be a real concern.
You can't put a prescription on furniture polish just because the odd munchausen-by-proxy whack job is going to feed it to her kid, most people just want to polish their furniture.

>>7525696
>>7532027
If you two aren't trans, why are you here?

>>7536525

Maybe they're one of the foremost three letters in the acronym?

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Sometimes I wonder if I'm just a gay guy who just wants to be accepted easier

Anyone relate?

>>7526682
>I don't consider myself a woman just a male with AGP. But some would say i'm trans. Even if AGPs are valid, AGP transition seems so fake, like their just giving in to a disorder.
The same is true of non-AGP trans people.

This thread is gay.

>>7525588
>is it actually psychologically possible for a parent to convince their child that theyre trans

I'm not trying to be a dick, but you don't seem to understand child psychology or the role of parent-child relationships in the early development of individual psychology very well.

A parent can absolutely convince their children to believe they are anything. Convincing a child they are trans or "the wrong" gender would be incredibly easy for a parent. The kind of authority that a child's mind creates for their parents is virtually godhood in terms of absoluteness.

That being said, such a thing (a parent brainwashing a non-trans child into believing they were trans) is child abuse as best, Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy at worst.

>>7536882
That's why kids who were really trans repress/deny in unhealthy family situations and our suicide rate is so high

>>7536882
>That being said, such a thing (a parent brainwashing a non-trans child into believing they were trans) is child abuse as best, Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy at worst.
It seems like it could happen accidentally very easily
>boy likes pink, plays with girl toys
>says he's a girl/princess/etc (the same way he said he's a dragon yesterday and a helicopter tomorrow)
>parent googles "boys who do thing"
>googles "boys who think they're girls"
>discovers gender dysphoria
>"do you want to be a girl? do you like being a boy?"
>boy remembers time other adult took toy off him "because that's for girls"
>"yes"
And five years later you have a kid who thinks she's a girl in a boy's body and showers with the lights off so she doesn't have to look at herself.

>>7536959
is that an actual example or one you made up?

>>7537036
I made it up, but I expect each different part of it has happened to someone.

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>>7537212
Okay, keep on spreading the good word then.

>>7537226
Do you think parts of it have happened? Or have similar things that may have happened, or even that you know did?

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>>7537237
No, why?

>>7537251
I did have that in mind while thinking of examples.

>>7537338
have you read the book in full?

>>7537642
No, I don't have software that can open epub files.

>>7525588
Have you ever read up on the David Reimer case? The problem isn't having the children become transgender, it's being forced into a gender role that does not fit you and having to struggle with that your entire life.

>>7525696
Like this.

>>7525696
I like that movie about the brother and sister who go to a summer camp

>>7536959
>And five years later you have a kid who thinks she's a girl in a boy's body and showers with the lights off so she doesn't have to look at herself.
If that were the case wouldn't it suggest they were actually trans? That is, considering they'd be doing that because they feel bad about their body. Interpreting things such as liking girl's toys and acting in a feminine way incorrectly as transsexualism and therefore thinking you're trans wouldn't produce legitimate symptoms of gender dysphoria too.

>>7539114
>thinking you're trans wouldn't produce legitimate symptoms of gender dysphoria
most of the detransitioners i've met mindfucked themselves into experiencing something indistinguishable from dysphoria to the point a lot of them *still* believe they have it, despite evidence to the contrary

>>7539135
Can you give examples? I'd be very interested to hear them.

I can imagine what you're saying but I have a hard time thinking of how exactly it would reach the level that's indistinguishable. Depression in general or discomfort with some ugly body features (but not really over them being masculine/feminine) being misinterpreted I can understand. I can't imagine someone "tricking" themselves into experiencing the really intense and specific dysphoria.

Am I correct in thinking that the difference is mostly in the motivation? So where a "legitimate" MtF might for example cry and feel disgusted and alienated over noticing they've grown new facial hair because they have some sort of innate aversion to their masculinity, an "illegitimate" one might do the same but because they glorify being female/feminine or want to fit some extrinsic expectation, even if they don't realise that's their motivation. In that case, looking deeper and discovering the motivation would reveal the fundamental difference. I guess the people in the latter case would in quite often not respond well to transition as a treatment, but I'd also imagine that some would be happy with it, even if their fundamental motivations are different; if you just really want to be cute and feminine and it's killing you inside (and is apparently incurable), becoming more cute and feminine should help.

>>7537226
Please get a life. Don't you ever get tired of posting on 4chan all day?

>>7539199
it's not agp/aap that makes someone illegitimate, though the detransers I've known (I'm ftm, so that's the framework we're dealing with here) have had a lot in common with aap trans guys
look at the detransition tag on tumblr, that's where they hang out -- you'll find people who were transitioned for half a decade or more, who were medically diagnosed as 'true transsexuals', who lived stealth and sometimes even still live stealth because they pass too well to actually detransition
but don't take their histories at face value -- I've never met one who truly understands what she experiences
also a growing number are mtftm rather than ftmtf, and their experiences are about the same so far as i can tell

>>7525588
Its just as much possible for parents to brainwash their kids convincing they are trans as much as their parents brainwashing their kids saying homosexuality is bad. So yes.

>>7539135
>mindfucked themselves into experiencing something indistinguishable from dysphoria
That's impossible. Like OP is implying, you can't believe you have GID without having it. How would it even be diagnosed then?

>>7525588
Of course it is. A parent could tell his 7 year old he's a Robo-Velociraptor and he would believe him without question.
>>7527599
Kek

>>7536525
Yeah I forgot this board is also not completely for tranny freaks too.

>>7536525
They are honorary FTMs.

>>7539114
>If that were the case wouldn't it suggest they were actually trans? That is, considering they'd be doing that because they feel bad about their body.
You aren't aware social influences, like glossy magazines telling girls they should be skeletons, can influence children's feelings about their bodies? Or is bulimia the result of a neurological condition caused by thininization of the brain in utero?

>>7531985
You shouldn't consider yourself anything, you should just seek professional help to help you figure out what's best for you.

>>7539996
>How would it even be diagnosed then?
there's a whole thread going around detransitioner tumblr where they talk about how they were all diagnosed with gid and fit the criteria

anyway, regarding the op:
the question being asked is just 'are there mothers with munchausen's by proxy?' which...yes, yes there are
that is no reason to deny treatment to kids with transsexualism
munchausen's by proxy mothers routinely fake diseases in their children with potentially dangerous treatments, but that's no reason to deny said treatment

>>7543691
>the question being asked is just 'are there mothers with munchausen's by proxy?' which...yes, yes there are
>munchausen's by proxy mothers routinely fake diseases in their children with potentially dangerous treatments, but that's no reason to deny said treatment
Agreed. How do we stop them detransitioning though?

>>7543806
i'm not sure that's a viable plan, though some of them who conclude transition wasn't a good idea for them will remain transitioned anyway (probably even most -- if you look at studies of people who we know for a fact have conditions equivalent to transsexualism, like natal males with cloacal exstrophy who were surgically assigned female, only about half of them transition)
for the ones who do detransition, the solution is for the trans community (>implying there's one single community >implying trannies don't all hate each other) to stop rejecting detransitioners
as it is, the reason why detransitioners (regardless of whether they're ftmtf or mtftm, really) become terfs in such great numbers is because it's the only community that will accept them
we as a group need to get over our complex that detransitioners will ruin everything, lest they feel rejected and decide to actually ruin everything, and accept them as our peers -- it's not like we don't have a lot in common

>>7526801
Anyone who thinks there are more than 2 niggers is a gender

>>7527073
I agree with your write up. No way that Milo Stewart is on T though. Not with that voice.

>>7543894
she started it in november, in her most recent video she has a lot of acne
voice changes on t are generally somewhat overrated, i've known trans guys who've been on it for several years and still have voices perceived as female, that's an extreme case but it's not out of the ordinary to have a feminine voice still at a couple months in

>>7531174
>garbage
And a ripoff/stylebite of the Scott Pilgrim graphic novel.

>>7531420
I never thought about it like this before. Smart, anon.

>>7531570
Lol that would be unfortunate

>>7532027
Maybe you'd see parallels between your life and David Reimer's? Your mom sounds... eh.

>>7543832
>some of them who conclude transition wasn't a good idea for them will remain transitioned anyway
What's life like for them? Different from a trans person of the other natal sex?

>if you look at studies of people who we know for a fact have conditions equivalent to transsexualism, like natal males with cloacal exstrophy who were surgically assigned female, only about half of them transition
Where did you read this? The wikipedia article on cloacal exstrophy doesn't mention anything about assigning a different sex to the natal sex to people with it. What other conditions are subject to that treatment?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloacal_exstrophy

>the solution is for the trans community
>to stop rejecting detransitioners
What would acceptance of detransitioners involve? It's not like support groups could cater to both, is it?

>>7532342
>at least i'm doing it consciously rather than subconsciously now
Cool. Do your thing.

>>7533902
Oh shit.

>>7536683
It's a question worth asking

>>7526498

What do you want them to post? A scholastic article that you won't read or understand?
A well reasoned formal argument that you will ignore, or won't have the tools to rigorously debate?

My grandpa's mother dressed him as a girl (and not in the pilgrim unisex uniform that happens to be a smock / dress kind of way) til like the age of 11, there's pictures of it.
Shit's pretty fucked up, I think it messed up his opinion on gays (but it's hard to tell in general given his generation), but he didn't transition.

There's no question that parents can indoctrinate their children into whatever belief system the parents hold, but also at some point around their teen years as they go through significant brain changes, they're likely to form their own opinions.

>>7543934
>What's life like for them? Different from a trans person of the other natal sex?
they'll just continue living as their transitioned sex and experiencing mild background dysphoria over it
>Where did you read this? The wikipedia article on cloacal exstrophy doesn't mention anything about assigning a different sex to the natal sex to people with it
i'm uncertain if it was still done, but it was protocol in the 90s to the point parents often weren't given the choice and their sons were reassigned no matter their thoughts on the topic
the man who would be queen by michael bailey (yes, blanchard's best friend bailey) talks about it, and a whole section of the book is dedicated to studies on the topic
the same thing used to happen to natal males with micropenises in the 60s/70s
>What would acceptance of detransitioners involve? It's not like support groups could cater to both, is it?
i'm not thinking support groups, i'm thinking the online communities developed by trans people
/r/askhons bans detransitioners on sight, for instance, regardless of whether they're being terfy or not, and tumblr ostracizes anyone who doesn't agree with the latest brand of 76 genders bullshit
we need to get over the idea that associating with detransitioners will fuck us over, there is no other medical condition where its sufferers assume treatment failure is a personal slight against people for whom treatment succeeded

>>7543969
Why did she do that? She can't have believed he was trans like modern trans moms who push transition.

>>7543980
>and experiencing mild background dysphoria over it
Like a mildly trans non-transitioner. But at least the non-transitioner gets to be a real member of their assigned sex, instead of getting the worst of both, dysphoria and being a tranny. Are there many people like this? I'd like to read their accounts.

>but it was protocol in the 90s to the point parents often weren't given the choice and their sons were reassigned no matter their thoughts on the topic
>the same thing used to happen to natal males with micropenises in the 60s/70s
I had no idea. I knew Reimer wasn't unique, but I had no idea it was like this. Are there any other books about this kind of thing? Any websites?

>i'm thinking the online communities developed by trans people
Reddit and Tumblr are shit anyway. That leaves /lgbt/. Do we need a Detransition General?

>there is no other medical condition where its sufferers assume treatment failure is a personal slight against people for whom treatment succeeded
I suppose it might make more sense if you think of it as something else rather than a medical condition.

>>7543900
Ah, okay. Pretty recent.

>>7543957
I googled pics of Jonas Maines and he looks unhappy as fuck.

>>7544016
>Are there many people like this? I'd like to read their accounts.
people who feel that way tend to not talk about it too much, but i've met more than one long-term post-transition trans person who experiences it
a lot of them experienced dysphoria-like things pre-transition as well, so it's not necessarily an adaptive decision for them to detrans
though you have to read between the lines to recognize it, a lot of mtf terfs (more common than you would think) seem to experience it
>Are there any other books about this kind of thing? Any websites?
though i'm not sure of books other than bailey's who delve into that specific 'well, we just made a whole bunch of ftms' brand of intersex genital mutilation, intersex websites and books are almost always about igm and the degree to which it screws with one's future identity development
even ones whose bodies now match their gender identities (such as the progestin-virilized females of the late 50s/early 60s, who were physically but not neurologically masculinized and so had the same very slim odds of a male gender identity as any natal female) are generally upset that they were modified without their consent at such a young age
>Reddit and Tumblr are shit anyway.
i agree, but they're much more mainstream communities than /tttt/ is, and they're where most trans and interested cis people will be getting their information
>That leaves /lgbt/. Do we need a Detransition General?
probably not right now, we're a bit less bad with detransitioners than 'ban them on sight' places
>I suppose it might make more sense if you think of it as something else rather than a medical condition.
yeah, that's another attitude we as a community are struggling with
i understand the identity arguments, but i think most of them are subconsciously born of 'but i don't want to admit it's a disability! that would be bad!', which, ironically given all the tumblr kids who throw around the word 'ableism' then turn around and do that, is ableist

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Anyone kind of not okay with us changing the principles of our society to suit the 0.5% of people who are actually trans?

Oh, it's just me? Alright

>>7544081
I'm not okay with it. Still transitioned. Theory vs. practice. Suicide vs. happiness. Yolo fuck it.

>>7544060
>a lot of them experienced dysphoria-like things pre-transition as well
So what is it if they experience it either way?

>though you have to read between the lines to recognize it, a lot of mtf terfs (more common than you would think) seem to experience it
What sort of things do you see between the lines?

>that specific 'well, we just made a whole bunch of ftms'
MtFs, surely? Or MtFtMs at least?

>intersex websites and books are almost always about igm and the degree to which it screws with one's future identity development
Of course. I need to read them.

>i understand the identity arguments, but i think most of them are subconsciously born of 'but i don't want to admit it's a disability! that would be bad!'
For me if anything it's "But I don't want to have to transition."

>>7544142
The funny thing about this picture is that it's one of the few where Jonas actually looks happy, and Nicole KNOWS to look unhappy in her cosplay of him.

>>7533902
>>7544142
why wasn't jonas chosen? ;_;

>>7544177
>So what is it if they experience it either way?
a friend of mine who is possibly the Only Legitimate Nonbinary but possibly something else instead argues they might also be the Only Legitimate Nonbinaries, but i've met a lot of people who experienced dysphoria-type things in both sexes but were *also* dysphoric when going for nonbinary, so i suspect what's going on here is that one of the dysphorias is actually a different set of issues entirely (bdd, dissociation, etc)
the detransers who insist they were dysphoric trutrans (and, thus, that there's no such thing as trutrans) usually experienced those things instead, and will admit it, but keep claiming they were trutrans anyway because saying otherwise will ruin their narrative
>What sort of things do you see between the lines?
a lot of them are very eager to admit that they're 'male' (in terfspeak), have experimented with detransition in the past but failed, talk about how on 'some level' they're really just extremely feminine men, and other assorted things to distance themselves from their female gender identities and lives
>MtFs, surely? Or MtFtMs at least?
female body (of a sort) and male gender identity
mtftm implies some degree of their lives, even if it was just very early childhood, was lived as male
>For me if anything it's "But I don't want to have to transition."
yeah, that's a common setup as well, but the tumblr kids i'm thinking about usually dismiss transmedicalism out of 'i don't want being trans to be a disability' rather than 'i don't want to transition' (hell, half of them want to transition despite *not* being trans by any reasonable definition)

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

>>7544215
according to 'led by the child who simply knew' (an article about the maines family when nicole and jonas were 14), nicole is extroverted and has a strong personality, but jonas is extremely shy and bad at dealing with stress
a direct quote that stuck in my mind even long before learning jonas is trutrans too was 'we're glad it isn't jonas because he wouldn't be able to deal with the bullying, we'd have to homeschool him'
so they chose nicole because she'd be able to deal with discrimination and jonas wouldn't

>>7544235
>>7544280
Tfw Jonas is going to kill Nicole before Caraposter ever gets the chance.

>>7544224
>the detransers who insist they were dysphoric trutrans (and, thus, that there's no such thing as trutrans) usually experienced those things instead, and will admit it, but keep claiming they were trutrans anyway because saying otherwise will ruin their narrative
Do they meet the criteria for trutrans?

>a lot of them are very eager to admit that they're 'male' (in terfspeak), have experimented with detransition in the past but failed, talk about how on 'some level' they're really just extremely feminine men, and other assorted things to distance themselves from their female gender identities and lives
That could simply be presenting their transness in a way that's acceptable to their TERF friends.

>female body (of a sort) and male gender identity
>mtftm implies some degree of their lives, even if it was just very early childhood, was lived as male
It's just choosing a term here. I though MtF because they were transitioned, involuntarily but nonetheless, to female.

>hell, half of them want to transition despite *not* being trans by any reasonable definition
That would give us a larger sample size for this sort of discussion.

>>7536959
You clearly have no idea how the therapy or transition process works especially for kids and are just assuming based on your feels and what would suit your alarmist armchair theories.

Boys liking pink and wanting to play with dolls and girls wanting to play sports and not just wear frilly dresses is specifically the sort of stuff they try to make sure to differentiate from gender dysphoria in order to prevent false positives. Like that's fucking first conversation stuff before even really beginning therapy.
Despite what you might be lead to believe from tabloid magazine covers warning about the evil doctors brainwashing children, they are not giving out free hrt and next-day surgery to every kid who doesn't perfectly fit some ideal feminine/masculine stereotype.

You have no evidence of this shit happening outside your fevered imagination, all you have is desperate appeals to
>well maybe possibly SURELY it's happening SOMEWHERE with countless kids falling through the cracks and the evil sjw parents and doctors brainwashing them into thinking things that they don't actually think and shoving hrt down their throats because I just feel it MUST be true!

>>7544292
Maybe we just discovered who Caraposter is.

>>7544419
>easy access to framed pictures of Nicole and highlighted copies of her stupid book

Sounds legit actually

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>>7544201
>>7544142
Omg Jonas is trans, anons.

>>7539282
>you'll find people who were transitioned for half a decade or more, who were medically diagnosed as 'true transsexuals'
This kinda shits so scary, how can anyone know for sure?

>>7544280
Can you expand your thoughts on this?

>>7544235
>nicole is extroverted and has a strong personality, but jonas is extremely shy and bad at dealing with stress
being a girl is less stressful so it was cruel not to choose him.

>>7544443
>her dad has the same face

Hmmm....

>>7544405
>>7544413
Using parts as an example is not the same as referencing.

>>7544452
How can anyone know they're gay or straight for sure?

>>7544464
Lol. The dad looks like he's about to say something. Jonas is alone in defeat in his head.

>>7544378
>is specifically the sort of stuff they try to make sure to differentiate from gender dysphoria in order to prevent false positives. Like that's fucking first conversation stuff before even really beginning therapy.
Good thing "they" aren't the kid's parents, who will have convinced her she wants to be female long before she reaches the doctors and psychs.

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>>7544215
It was a terrible mistake.

>>7544235
>>7544280
introverts = trutrans
extroverts = trenders
it's all so obvious now.

>>7544494

Being gay or straight don't require lifelong commitment to hormones and surgery

>>7544551
what's the significance of the pic?

>basically forced femme stuff if you read about her interactions with her father
what stuff?

>the mother personally referred to Nicole as a "project" that "had to get done"
what did that mean?

>>7544142
Is it normal for grown brother and sisters, where one is trans or not, to switch clothes?

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>>7544142
>>7544618
"Welcome home, sister. We have much to discuss."

>>7544663
>up until the end of the lawsuit
what was the lawsuit?

>>7544663
how did her father forced femme her?

>>7544686
Holy shit they're actually identical twins?

Then he is def trans, there is a high rate of both twins being trans, they literally are the Wachowskis. Fuck someone needs to save Jonas.

>>7544852
>implying they're both trans

>>7544852
technically it's a 1 in 3 chance, but yeah, joanna maines is a chick

>>7544663
>Don't forget that his parents, Nicole and Dr. Spack forced Jonas to go through male puberty to test to see how Nicole would turn out/to gauge when Nicole needed to begin blockers.

This is some My Sister's Keeper shit

>>7544852
>>7544893
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP4NxUFgFrs

They're identical twins and they were adopted by parents who call them a "project". Anyone else connecting the dots?

>>7544915
I don't believe "project" had the meaning you're thinking in that context. Your thought could be legit, but needs more clues.

I go to UMaine proper and have met Nikki Maines once(we have a few mutual friends) anyway, she seems to be entirely genuine with who she is. Haven't had any social contact outside of small talk.

>>7545214
I believe you, but... Joanna tho....

She's never gonna get dicked at this rate, I just don't want to see her an heroine

>>7545214
>have met Nikki Maines once
>Haven't had any social contact outside of small talk.
>she seems to be entirely genuine with who she is
I'm convinced! She can't have been forced into it after all!

Now we just need someone who saw Jonas in the street once to say he walked like a dude and we'll know she isn't trans.

>>7545238
Hey I'm not saying she wasn't coerced into it(our entire conversation roster amounts to "hey guys""hey we miss you, you're gone a lot" not much to go on there) or whether or not her twin is or isn't trans.

>>7545265
You're saying she could seem entirely genuine with who she is and still have been coerced into it?!

>>7545283
I'm saying I've met he once and she seems legitimate. That's it. I have no idea(nor do I really care) whether or not there was coercion.

>>7544663
Which is retarded since 95% of transitioners don't need a goddamn twin control
>>7544893
Yup

>>7544569
>>7544235
Tfw AGP, introverted, shy and bad at dealing with stress. These traits were intense during puberty for me. Wow poor Jonas I wonder if he feels more AGP than trutrans? At least when I was a repressed teenager I didn't have a pretty princess trans sister and everyone was poorly educated on transgenderism. For me womanhood was a dream not a tangible reality. Imagine the rage, jealously and despair he must feel.

>>7544663
Ok but do you think the parents knew that Jonas was also trans? What if he just didn't speak up enough cuz he was more repressed and introverted?

>>7525588
Yes, obviously you stupid shit. Children are very impressionable and if you start at a young age, know what to tell them(What they feel, how they feel it, et cetera) they will latch onto that forever. There's a reason people say that religion is hereditary.

>>7545998
>Imagine the rage, jealously and despair he must feel.

Yeah. He's not going to survive tbqh

fuck the parents but having all this deeply personal shit be such a public matter for discussion has got to really fuck those two up =. it seems pretty awful and unlikely to make people like jonas feel any better about their lives

Is there any actual evidence that Jonas is trans, or is it just standard celebrity speculation like with Egoraptor and Leafy?
Google just gives me sources about the sister, so any links?

>>7544518
And if they "convince them they're a girl", because of course ftms don't exist or are just silly confused girls, based on liking pink and not wanting their toys taken away like you people seem to think is what happens then the therapists would likely pick up on it very fast because again they specifically look for that stuff and other indications that anything is going on besides legitimate gender dysphoria.

They look for autism and other issues that can be confused for gender dysphoia and even just the presence of other unrelated conditions can lead to them delaying transition till a lot of therapy sorts stuff out, even just things like depression or anxiety which can be counter-productive when those things are actually caused by dysphoria.

You have no basis for this assumption that you can just tell kids they're the opposite gender because they like toys or colors or clothes or hobbies that are traditionally associated with the opposite gender in their culture and that will somehow transform into physical dysphoria that they'd argue for themselves and would be identical to actual gender dysphoria in transsexuals. The only examples we do have of such cases show that it doesn't work, like with david reimer.

If you really want to argue some far off possibility of a parent with severe munchausen carefully coaching and abusing children to trick doctors then that's not just an argument against transition for kids but basically all medical treatment especially psychiatric.

>>7545283
Yes clearly you know this person you've never met MUCH better and know everything about how their whole life was manipulated and they're being brainwashed by the liberal conspiracy into just THINKING they want to live their life like they do.

>>7545998
>Ok but do you think the parents knew that Jonas was also trans?
>also

>>7546570
>And if they "convince them they're a girl", because of course ftms don't exist or are just silly confused girls,
Nobody said girls can't get a false GID diagnoses just the same as boys...

>>7547177
Stop being a creepy stalker, and kill yourself caraposter.

>>7547177
>kik
Email.

>>7547380
Temp for you to contact me
[email protected]

>>7547386
What happens if UMaine has multiple students with the same name? They didn't think this through very well.

>>7547402
I saw I had Eli Erlick as a mutual with her, so I tried to friend her recently, but apparently she already has too many requests, despite only having 700+ friends. I almost have as many friends as her, it's weird.

>>7547177
your stalking isn't going to help you cara.

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>>7544663
>Nicole and Dr. Spack forced Jonas to go through male puberty
This is disgusting.
Nicole is now officially worse than Mengele tbqh.

>>7544551
>His
Stop misgendering her you fucking gross retard.

Jonas is a SHE.

>>7544893
>>7547655
They didn't "force" her to, Caraposter is exaggerating. She meant that they let her go through male puberty, by pretending she isn't trans.

>>7525588
It is very possible.

Think of it this way, if a parent convinces you being a male is evil, awful, bad, smelly, ect, and pretty much the epitome of negative, would you WANT to be a male, or would you, to save your own self esteem, say you are a girl, just to view yourself as a good person?

>>7547712
>the story of a good number of transbians

>>7547719
Sad part is, I almost became one, and nobody beleives me with that being the case. I tell people I occasionally still get the impulse, especially with militant feminazis, but realize im genuinely happier being a man.

>>7547740
I believe you. Tell the tale.

>>7525588
Parents can convince children anything, it's why religion still exists

>>7547686
How do we save him?

>>7547874
Hilariously I'm actually mutuals with Jonas too, through some people I knew in high school, this might be easier than I thought.

>>7547881
That's a pretty big coincidence...

>>7547936
Well it is definitely her, I just shot her a friend request.

>>7547946
Jonas or Nicole?

>>7547964
Nikki has too many friend requests pending, I meant Jonas.

>>7547874

if you actually want to help someone I guess that's okay but I think you're misgendering someone. it's really gross that y'all make this so public too.

I raised my kids to buttsex fire hydrants.

Live to your aspirations, faggot.

>>7547986
>it's really gross
>y'all

AFAB spotted

>>7547986
>it's really gross that y'all make this so public too.
You want Spack, Nicole and his parents to get away with this?

>>7547750
I've told it before and people accused me of lying lol.

Brought up with mother and dad for few years, mum was raped as a child, had men issues, eventually divored, turned les, always lamented to me all men were scumbag rapist, ect. Started getting suicidal at puberty, felt terrified of my own arousal, ect

Eventually got over it, with years studying psychology, but I actively wanted to chop my balls off at a few points.

>>7547997
Aspergerations*.

fixed.

>>7548017
I believe it.

>Eventually got over it, with years studying psychology,
How did it help?

>>7548010
What are you planning to do once you reach him?

>>7548024
To be honest, it was facing fear. I had an EXTREME fear of being around women who aroused me (even women in bikinis) and I would literally flea from it

I forced myself to face it, to see that, no, I will not rape a girl if I'm aroused. It was terrifying at first, but slowly I changed the pattern of thinking.

This is how you can change anything about yourself, by changing your pattern of thought by having stimuli that matches the expectations of the thought patterns you want.

Sad stupid faggots cant understand this, go jerking off to gay porn at all times, then wonder why they are so gay.

Spoiler, its because you made thinking, and getting pleasure from gay porn HABIT.

>>7548080
How are you happier as a man now?

What might other people need to do who feel trans for different reasons?

>>7526975
I trusted my parents when they said I was a boy.
I trusted the teachers when they said I was a boy.
I trusted the doctors when they said I was a boy.
Now it's time to become a man.
A dead one.

>>7548080
I hate when people who went through traumatic experience think their experiences and solutions are universal.

>>7530066
>"Anon, what do you want out of life? You'd be happier if you had some direction."
>"Nothing."
>"There must be something? Just think about it."
>"No, I literally want to be nothing, a complete absence of anything the could be perceived as existence."
>"Okay, Anon, just think about it, okay?"

I feel you

>>7548203
He isn't saying other people are trans for the same reason he was...

>>7543934
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloacal_exstrophy
thank fuck there aren't pictures on this article

>>7548260
But he did say being gay is a choice.

>>7548351
Obviously everybody has different circumstances. It wasn't porn for me but I still ended up liking guys.

>>7546012
>>7545998
>>7544235

Listen to the lyrics from My Name Is Jonas by Weezer... It could so easily be about (her)...

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>>7548398
>tfw honas

>>7548774
Neck yourself shitter.

>>7548121
I'm happier because I'm not constantly hating my emotions, for one, and 2, im not a mutilated, drugged, outcast, chemfiending, ugly, socially awkward, sexually dysfunctional, self hating, mentally warped, depression oozing, delusion having, tranny.

As for other trans, it is generally for a similar reason. All trannies I have EVER met, always had something shitty happen to them in one way or another, or otherwise had the opposite sex represented as objectively better, or had themselves viewed as "inferior" at being their sex. Look at blair white on youtube, Hes often said he was an awful excuse for a man, thinks he did better as a woman.

Big dick bitch, a porn star, talked about all the men in his life were useless bafoons paying for his momma, and his momma manipulated money out of men.

An old tranny friend I had said she was raped as a girl too much, and wanted to be a big strong man who wasn't weak like a girl.

Every case I've seen theres something to make being the born sex look shitty, which makes them try to be the other.

If you can address the why, you can fix it...but many REFUSE to talk about it, and even more are fucking insane because of it. One tranny I know literally says free will isn't a thing. Sad stuff, shes otherwise smart, but is an emotional cesspool.

>>7548203
I hate when people insist things happen just randomly and for no reason.

>>7548260
Pretty much this, not everyone had my mother, but I think a damn big portion went through something similar as stated above. If I'm wrong, people can say this, on a case by case basis, but like anything, symtoms can come from multiple causes. A stuffy nose can be a cold, alergies, cold weather, toxins, ect. Just because one person doesn't have a cold, doesn't mean colds dont have a chance of causing stuffy noses

>>7548351
Being gay is a choice in the sense that someone being a COWARD is a choice. Habits form them being cowardly, but they can change habits, if they want.

>>7548372
It can be a multitude of causes, just like a stuffy nose.

It can be porn, can be craving fatherly love which becomes associated with / synonymous with gay sex, it can be rape....all kinds of stuff.

I've seen people turn gay from rape, from acting too damn effeminate, from being too open to gay shit (yes, if you hang around gay people, and accept it, you might start to warm up to being gay, out of curiosity, then the other causes can compound it) alcohol, weed, ect.

usually, its a big mix of all of these, and habit makes it take over.

>>7548874
Can we email and talk about why I might feel trans?

>>7548931
Sure. Email me at realregal357@hotmail.

Inb4 people troll it, but fuck it, its a throw away.

>>7548067
meant to reply to
>>7547985

>>7527595
Theres a difference between telling someone "you are x" and convincing them, faggot.

>>7525588
>questioning whether or not parents have the power to psychologicall abuse their children
This really is the dumbest board.

>>7548874
i was raised feminist and to believe that women are superior
i'm a trans man
shit happens

Idk op. How many trans kids existed in the 1800s? 1.4?

People are infertilizing their kids to give them status and leverage.

>>7549839
There wasn't a reliable metric to count the amount of gender non-conforming children in the world back then. However, when you consider that the concept of transgender people dates back thousands of years, your "muh 1800s" point kind-of dissolves.

>>7549347
You wanted to be an example of a DECENT man, because you think there are none.

>>7548891
Uh oh, so one can turn gay. I've felt a pull towards being bi since puberty because i'm AGP. I felt huge shame about it for a long time, but now that I'm in early 30s I've started to feel better about it. Might be something to do with weed smoking, over the last couple years which I use to treat gender dysphoria and depression. Despite being gynephilic I have very little sexual or relationship experience with women.

>>7549347
Same. Mom ran the show my whole childhood. Got the "women are superior" ideas reinforced by my super-feminist older sister. Am FTM and told my friends I was a boy when I was 3.

Any thoughts, anons.

>>7549839
Native American tribes had trans people who were seen as more connected to the spiritual world if not as actual gods.
>inb4 Native Americans are barbarous

>>7550133
Honestly, perhaps getting a decent escort with the girlfriend experience would help... Take her on a date, talk with her, ect...and have her guide you through it.

Too much porn can fuck up social skills btw, if you view women as sexual all the time, your mind gets confused when you dont get that instantly. Its better to just be around them and talk to them.

>>7550335
my guess is if they brought up "privilage" a lot, you wanted these privlages.

rape is also a possible cause.

>>7550391
Interacting with women of all ages at my workplace has helped with that some. I also try not to watch too much porn. But it seems AGPs always lose to the condition in the end.

>>7548080

Oof, had to go and spoil your credibility at the end there didn't you.

>>7548874
>Hes often said he was an awful excuse for a man, thinks he did better as a woman.
>what are jokes

>>7548874
>One tranny I know literally says free will isn't a thing.
This is a pretty damn mainstream philosophical question, plenty of people believe free will is an illusion.

>>7550901
Yes but they don't use it as an excuse for refusing to change political views, romantic attraction to individuals, alcoholism, etc.

>>7551248
Using philosophy as an excuse for anything is retarded. Making any excuses for ourselves is retarded.

>>7550883
>not believing that

>>7550893
I legitimately believe that about myself even if that mtf was only joking.

>>7527251
*tips*