Did we choose to not be heterosexual?

>>7467381
Both of my parents traumatised me so now I only like andros and transwomen :3

>>7467381
You know how some people are predisposed to having a heart condition, for example?

Well, some people are predisposed to being gay. There is a genetic element.
However, you can act against it. Even if you are "gay", as in you feel like doing gay shit, you can choose not to do that gay shit.
Also, people who lack the "gay gene" can choose to do gay shit.

So yes, it is a choice in the end, its just easier to make for some people due to genetics, but its still a choice.

>>7467381
>Have we choosen not to be heterosexual?
>I mean I didn't choose to be gay! things that happened to be in which I had no control over made me gay!

Did you also "choose" to be dumb?

>>7467412

I think that he's suggesting a discussion of the validity for the argument that environmental factors, rather than pure genetics, have an affect on homosexuality and acting out of homosexual tendencies.

It's a valid discussion, about 80% of the gay people I know don't have fathers or have a very poor relation, and are generally into some fairly extreme and weird things in bed, and are also fairly promiscuous. It would make sense that if homosexuality was purely genetic then we would see that the sexual tendencies of the gay community are more vanilla and generally in line with the staid sex lives of a large portion of the straight community.

>>7467427
Did you just assume my fucking gender?

>>7467435

Get over yourself and address the argument objectively.

>>7467427
Social factors have a way of determining the way that people act towards sex (i.e. out of desperation due to being a minority group, development of "alternative" fetishes from isolation), still doesn't necessitate that homosexuality but rather socialization due to being homosexual.

>>7467450
*that homosexuality induces those directly

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>>7467381
if you chose to be gay then it follows that you can choose to be straight.

let me know how that works out for you...

>>7467427
I have a good relationship with my family. My parents accept me completely. I had a good childhood with no abuse of any kind. I'm still a cock sucking cake boy.

I know a lot of straight people that had bad relationships with their parents and were abused in a variety of ways. I am confident that they are not connected but that people try to connect them as an easy way out.

>>7467526
In the same way that monks chose to not have sex, you can choose to not have gay sex. Not very difficult.

>>7467546
not having gay sex doesn't make you not gay.

I was gay when I was a virgin too

>>7467574
Not acting gay makes you not gay.
Do you think straight people never think gay thoughts?

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I think for full blown gay people its more genetic, but for bisexuals it may be more environmental, cause you have a lot of bi guys who only like traps or only hook with guys for dick even though they have no romantic or even physically attraction towards men.

>>7467381
The amount of straight men who have a shitty bond with their dad vastly outnumbers the gay ones.

This completely tears your little idea apart.
I hope you understand why.

>>7467544

Note that I mentioned not all. I have a stable relationship with my parents, yet I remain gay, but I'm sober enough to see that there are some socialisation aspects that contribute to gay and moreover 'camp' behaviour.

The typical gay male is

>white
>middle or upper middle class (or comes from said background)
>has or has had some parental issues
>is fairly promiscuous
>has typical gay racism

While the argument can be made that lots of straight people have bad relationships, the fact that homosexuality is atypical, and the features of bad relationships and outsiderism ring true for a far larger portion of the community mean that directly comparing the two is fairly irrelevant.

>>7467450

I think I agree with you, that homosexuality is down to both genetic and social factors.

>>7467581
thinking about what it must be like to suck another man's dick once a year is hardly the same as being attracted to other men 100% of the time

>>7467634
If you are thinking of gay sex 100% of the time you need help and can't properly function.

OP here.

>>7467608
Maybe this is where genetics comes in, like what >>7467403 said.

>>7467427
Thank you for clearing this up for me.

>>7467608
Yes but it may not be the bond itself. Maybe it's very specific, for example we know narcissistic psychopaths come from households where the father is abusive and the mother is the opposite. What if the formula is just slightly different for gays? I'm not suggesting bad relationship with dad instantly = gay.
Don't know why you've *chosen* to take that condescending tone, though.

>>7467620
>Typical gay male is white, middle or upper class
>Gay racism
Your ideas have come from TV/media. Opinion discarded.

>>7467427
is still not a choice
People also don't choose to be left-handed eventhough it's much more depentend on eviromental factors than genetics than being gay is

>>7467669

If you're unprepared to have an actual discussion then don't say anything in the first place.

>>7467427
>generally into some fairly extreme and weird things in bed, and are also fairly promiscuous

But this could just be that gays are more honest with each other as being the same sex they can relate to each other's needs and thus feel more confident in expressing their sexual desires.

Pornography doesn't help either, and we're finding more straight people are looking for more and more novel ways to have sex.Whether it's cuckoldry, sub/dom, pegging etc. It's not a gay thing anymore.

>>7467683
I am, just not about some bullshit statements you made up. I'm not arguing with a teenager, thanks.

>>7467678

I think you misunderstood, the choice aspect is the unchoosable social and environmental conditions.

In real terms it is not a choice, but rather could possibly be affected by choices made.

>>7467705

I think that our exposure to the gay community and 'scene' is significantly different to one another's

>>7467653
>What if the formula is just slightly different for gays?
Then still there are plenty more straight people in that exact situation than gay people.
And these straight people are still not gay.

>Don't know why you've *chosen* to take that condescending tone, though.
Because you're doing pseudoscience.

>>7467716
>Because you're doing pseudoscience.
Yes, that's why I started this thread in the first place, dipshit. We're talking about the L A C K of scientific evidence and what that means. Are you doing to contribute or fuck off to Reddit for some upvotes by unironically using the word pseudoscience?

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>>7467381
when I was younger I mainly liked guys and I constantly tried to convert myself because I didn't feel like normal. then one day it just clicked in my brain that liking guys was part of me so then I just accepted myself as bi. now, as cunty as it sounds, I really don't like labelling myself

>>7467640
being attracted to one gender all the time =/= thinking about having sex with them all the time

Yeah, Kinda. The furries got me into it. I just like being a special snowflake, okay?

I'm a trans guy and I thought I was straight as a 3rd grader when i thought I had a crush on my best friend, in hindsight it was more like just admiration, As I hit puberty etc the idea of being sexual with a guy like literally repulsed me haha, I mean technically I'm straight now but at the time I thought I only liked girls.So no I think it's mostly biological and possibly influenced by your childhood memories

>>7467753
>Yes, that's why I started this thread in the first place, dipshit.
To do nothing but guess, push our biased notions and anecdotes as if they have some sort of significance? interesting idea for a thread.
>We're talking about the L A C K of scientific evidence and what that means.
There is a lot of scientific literature about homosexuality, correlations and possible causations. why you would ignore all that and tell anyone who calls you stupid to fuck off to reddit is beyond me.

Secondly, it's debatable if something as the effects of a trauma or another incident can be considered a choice.
After all PTSD, autism, and the likes aren't considered choices as well.

Lastly this thread just smells fishy.

>>7467825
This post doesn't make any sense

>>7467381

The bible tells us we're all born sinners.

So... you may have had natural homosexual inclinations from a young age
but THE CAUSE AND REASON WHY ONE IS LGBTQ DOES NOT MATTER.

We're all told to take up the cross and DENY OUR FLESH and try our best not to SIN.

Being a homosexual is just as much as a sin as prostitution, having sex outside of marriage or cheating on your wife. SIN is SIN.

DENY YOUR FLESH, REPENT, SURRENDER & PRAY TO JESUS CHRIST!
He will start the process of changing you and your life so you can become born again in faith and devotion to him.

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First of all, being homosexual is a choice and you are dull for even asking that question.
Secondly, even if you are born gay, you make a conscious choice to act on your desires.
And lastly, there are plenty of people who are gay who have healthy relationships with both their father and their masculinity, myself included.
Do not hurt yourself thinking too hard.

>>7468105
Is it sin if I am using a crucifix to fuck my ass while jerking off into my mouth?

>>7468124

Yes, anything that gives you pleasure outside of worshipping and praying to Jesus is sinful.

>>7468105
>>7468140
charlie stop shoving your barbaric straight people ideology down people's throat.
What you're doing is literally spreading cishet propaganda.

>>7467381
Whether you're born gay, made gay, or became gay through a combination of nurture and nature, it still is not a choice.

So what's your point?

>>7468146

It's not an ideology or propaganda. It is the truth given to us ages ago.

LGBT/Marxist culture and propaganda has infected the youth with destructive nonsense.

>>7468204
stop lying charlie you know very well that you're actively pushing a barbaric ideology onto the minds of innocent youths.

You're a danger to children and a traitor as well.

>>7468180
>it still is not a choice

It is a choice because you can choose to deny yourself and be celibate or date and marry a woman.

I can show you many examples of ex-LGBTQ men & women, they are all over the world.

Just because you feel naturally inclined to something doesn't make it right. We all know what grooming can do to a child. In a way LGBTQ people have groomed themselves into being who they are today through their own thoughts/fantasies and sexual habits that they've acted upon.

>>7468211

that they've acted upon... and is being promoted by mainstream media and other liberal outlets.

>>7467381
>There's no proof we are born gay.
There's no proof anyone is born *any* sexuality. We don't know why sexuality occurs and what controls it. There is potential evidence that epigenetics are involved in homosexuality.

>but what if was a traumatic childhood or failure to bond with my father
I dunno, nothing? I'm still gay. I'm still attracted to men. Genes aren't the only things involved in creating a person's traits, so it's probably a little bit of both. Try changing someone's habits and you'll find it's almost just as impossible if it was an inherited gene.
>I know so many gays who have a missing/abusive/neglectful/neurotic parent.
I know of many who had none of that. It's just an anecdote.

>>7468211

Not the person you're responding to but:

>It is a choice because you can choose to deny yourself and be celibate or date and marry a woman.
You're confusing choice of the attraction and choice of acting on the attraction. One is a choice, the other isn't.

>I can show you many examples of ex-LGBTQ men & women, they are all over the world.
I'm sure you can. There's tons of evidence to suggest that it is not worth it, though.. because it is USUALLY (not always) bad for the person.

>Just because you feel naturally inclined to something doesn't make it right.
Sure, but since morality is not inherent and innate, your view on it is irrelevant to me.

>In a way LGBTQ people have groomed themselves into being who they are today through their own thoughts/fantasies and sexual habits that they've acted upon.
I don't see those as the same things, so.. not following.

>>7468231

You can choose to not identify with your flesh, mind, feelings, heart... and overcome that sinful attraction.

>>7468241
Sure, but I have no good reason to. It doesn't directly negatively impact me or others around me, and my identity as being gay is just one part of who I am as a person.. not the defining or even A defining characteristic. I just happen to be attracted to men, and I act on those attractions because I want to.

Being gay would be cool, women too often expect you to be a mind reader and don't understand the concept of talking out problems.

I'd take being gay over being straight easy if I could.

Cis straight dude here for the shitposting(Hons are the ultimate source of salt)

>>7468245
>It doesn't directly negatively impact me or others around me..

That's not necessarily true. We often don't know the negative ripple effect our sins can have on others. I'm sure we'll find out after we die though...


>my identity as being ((( ))) is just one part of who I am
>I just happen to be attracted to ((( )))
>I act on those attractions because ((( )))

I'm sure all who sin and do sick things feel the same way. They all feel it's just one part of their identity or something so small and they shouldn't be judged because of that. I'm not the one judging you, Jesus will be. I'm just trying to tell you that there is a better way and that's only through surrendering to Jesus Christ.

>>7468278
>That's not necessarily true. We often don't know the negative ripple effect our sins can have on others. I'm sure we'll find out after we die though...
I'm not religious, so this aspect doesn't concern me.

>I'm sure all who sin and do sick things feel the same way. They all feel it's just one part of their identity or something so small and they shouldn't be judged because of that. I'm not the one judging you, Jesus will be. I'm just trying to tell you that there is a better way and that's only through surrendering to Jesus Christ.
If your entire argument boils down to your faith then there's nothing I can say to really shake that. We'll just have to disagree mutually and move on.

>>7468284
charlie does not mutually disagree.
he'll pray for your destruction, and goes full damnation on you.
Then he'll say something about forgiving you (completely oblivious to the meaning of forgiveness) and pretend he has won.

It's like talking to the WBC, except he's more of an idiot.

>>7468211
>It is a choice because you can choose to deny yourself and be celibate or date and marry a woman.

Of course you can - but you can't CHOOSE what you're naturally attracted to. You'll always be gay. That's the point.

You can deny yourself all you want for all I care. I choose not to ;)

>>7468284

>I'm not religious, so this aspect doesn't concern me.

You don't have to be religious to care about how your life choices might be negatively impacting others, the youth, your community, your country, the world.

Can we agree that there is an LGBTQ/sexual agenda being promoted to the youth that is only the bearer of bad fruit?

>>7468351
>Can we agree that there is an LGBTQ/sexual agenda being promoted to the youth that is only the bearer of bad fruit?

No.

>>7468305

>you can't CHOOSE what you're naturally attracted to

When you deny your flesh and take up the cross, Jesus will often take over and your attractions can change. What you might have liked before you may find repulsive and revolting....what we think of as our "natural attractions" may not be as natural as we think.

>>7468384
>When you deny your flesh and take up the cross, Jesus will often take over and your attractions can change.

lol yeah, no. That's not real silly boy.

>Is being gay a choice?
Rarely, if ever, for the actual person. his is pretty obvious, but a gay person is someone who is primarily attracted to the same sex regardless of acting upon that attraction. It's a choice to act upon it, but not that person's choice to feel it in the first place.

>Is it genetic or environmental?
Both. Genes only account for some of it, and the environment accounts for some too. Environment includes everything after birth that isn't in your DNA, from social interaction to the mother's immune response when you're still inside her. Although this is for males, as they haven't discovered much about female homosexuality.

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>>7468355

That's okay. I still wish you Jesus.


>>7468399

He did it for me. I once identified as gay and had strong lusts/desires that have faded away into oblivion.

>>7468574
See you on the news in 10 years after you fuck some altar boys, Charlie

>>7468574
>He did it for me.

lol, no he didn't. That was all psychological. People in other cultures will say the same thing about Allah, Vishnu, Buddhist teachings, etc.

And you still have gay thoughts. You just don't admit or address them. But good for you if you're happy, I guess.

Sometimes I wonder if porn made me bi

OP have you considered the fact that it's much easier for males to come out as anything when their dad isn't in the picture? Maybe there are loads of closeted guys who remain as such out of fear of their fathers reaction or disappointing them.

I know I never came out till my mom and dad divorced and he fucked off. Him being there wasn't the only reason I held back but it was a big part of it.

>>7468677

Yes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8CR6RNCZBzQ

>>7467381
I didn't have a traumatic childhood and I'm gay. There are plenty of straights who've had traumatic childhoods.

People trying to tie the two things together are just armchair psychoanalysts, pulling things right out of their ass. It's pattern seeking.

>>7467381
>be in kindergarten
>tell a boy I love him
>teacher hears
>yells at me for liking boys

i was traumatized for a while. This was in liberal as fuck New Jersey. It took awhile to accept the fact I was gay after that event.

>>7468116
You're projecting. Most homosexuals never decided to be gay, many even actively trying not to be. Also, being celibate doesn't make you not gay.

>>7467381

It's possible in my case. I had a strong father figure and was confused about myself for a long time. If I had no father I would've figured it out much earlier, say around 12ish. I think the father figure almost overcame genetic predisposition.

>>7469132
>It's pattern seeking
um.....yeah pattern seeking is after all the BASIS of the scientific method. but ok i guess u r right

>>7474501
kek.

The basis of the scientific method is testing hypotheses based on observation. The hypothesis of "traumatic childhood/absent father = gay" has already been tested and there's no good evidence for it.

What you're talking about is drawing conclusions from seemingly related phenomenon, which is NOT the scientific method - it's causation/correlation falacy.

Crime goes up during the summer months. Ice cream sales also rise in correlation with crime. Therefor, ice cream = cime. That's what you're doing.

The more I realize that gender is a pointless construction the gayer I become. I'm not choosing to be gay, I am learning that humans are fuckin' sexy.