vote away /lgbt/ http://www.strawpoll.me/11743302/r

>>7306305
i wonder how many of these are duplicates

>>7306305
bump

>>7306305
What a moronic framing for a question.

Non-binary is as valid as any gender identity because GENDER DOESN'T REAL

Seriously, gender is LITERALLY a meme.

I'd love to say "fuck that non-binary shit," because a world in which there is male, female, and people who cross over is much simpler than a post-truth one in which the meme foundations of our civilization are being examined down to their skeletons. But it's true. I unfortunately realized myself that I am "non-binary" when I began transitioning as an mtf. I have dysphoria, and I love growing boobs and shit, but I just can't consider myself fully a lady.

Of course, my own experience is just feelings. It means nothing. But the same can be said of ANY gender expression. The social sciences are a noble pursuit, but in entomologizing the human experience, we seek to make comprehensible that which is inherently irrational.

>>7311638
People like you are why I hate most enbys. Fuck off and let me be a man by taking T and cutting off my boobs. Most people like having a gender. I don't care if you feel genderless, just stop trying to take away other people's gender

>>7311638
just wanted to know what lgbt thought senpai

>GENDER DOESN'T REAL
you might want to check out the david reimer case

look you sound like you aren't one of those 'i like girl toys so im nonbinary' people, and im not discrediting your experience or your existence, but i find the gender isn't real concept to be sort of bullshit.

if it was a social construct why would binary (and non binary) trans feel the need to transition?

>>7311698
as an enby i feel you senpai

>>7311717
i heard of the david reimer case, i used to think gender was some sort of social construct too but after i read about it im not so sure anymore

>>7311849
what's the david reimer case?

>>7311698
THIS THIS THIS.

>>7311902
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

>>7311638
can you pls stop im a fucking nonbinary and it's people like you that perpetuate the annoying special snowflake stereotype

how does it fucking feel to have people say you're in a phase and you're faking it?

live and let live

>>7311953
?
>>7311717
?
>>7311698
?
Please senpai, give me a little credit.

>>7311717
>if it was a social construct why would binary (and non binary) trans feel the need to transition?
This is because the nature of socially constructed phenomena is very involved and complex. So I say "gender isn't real," but I do not mean that humans do not engage in gendered practices (inherently), nor do I mean that the lived experience of gender is not real.

Maybe my ideology is a mess, and maybe it's because I am a self-hating tranny. I like to think I am fairly reasoned in most of this though. I identified as mtf trans for at least a decade before coming now to think that I identify best as not having a gender.

To speak to gender in a descriptive sense requires separating its cognitive aspects from its biological ones. The case of Reimer is an interesting counterpoint to my arguments, but it's also one that's set in a particular western biomedical paradigm that necessarily reinforces many prevailing notions of gender even as it questions them, and it is not entirely convincing to make me rescind my views on gender as being "not real." However, you all are right that there is a reality to gender, and since I actually got responses, I'll admit to that being an oversimplification. "Gender" is real as a universal aspect of the human experience. Trans people feel the need to transition because of a variety of complex relations that MUST include biological and cultural factors. However, if gender exists, it exists as something "out there." It's a ghost that drifts around the loose corridors of overlapping consciousness. Gender does exist, sure, I will grant you all that and consider that I was misspeaking. However, gender is almost entirely social, in my estimation, and what I truly mean to say here and will stand by, is that genders do not exist.

This argument is a somewhat slippery one, but it's very similar to the argument that race doesn't exist.

>>7312010
cont.
Which can probably be back up more effortlessly. Both have enormous consequences as we give them validity in reifying them socially. It can still be argued that they do not "exist," though "to exist" is perhaps an inadequate phrase to draw a distinction between that which exists in the world of thought and that which exists in objective reality. FWIW, my views on gender, etc, are somewhat unconventional, but in response to some of the "this is why I hate enbies, you special flakes," I will say that my views on gender, etc, have not changed by my shifting paradigm on my own gender identity. At the moment, I'm actually still rather in-between being mtf and being NB in my own self-identification, and I do just tell people at the moment that I'm mtf (and I don't think the distinction is necessarily very important, as they are both just labels, in this case for different transsexuals).

However, whether I call myself NB, gender-fluid, MtF, genderqueer, femboy, etc, this does not have a large impact on the reality of gender and how it functions. It is interesting trying to reconcile mtf transitioning with feminism tbqh, because while one embraces "feminine norms," in transition, feminism and social activism also seek to de-naturalize such gendered paradigms. Of course I experience gender, and it could be argued (quite easily) that gender is the most impactful facet of the human experience, but for me to use these as evidence that categories of masculinity and femininity are natural and biologically-rooted would be begging the question

>>7311953
>can you pls stop im a fucking nonbinary and it's people like you that perpetuate the annoying special snowflake stereotype
Maybe you didn't read my damn post.

The "special snowflake" shit that you hate is when people identify with 7 different labels and dress "queerly" without transitioning or experiencing dysphoria.

I'm quite certain my postpostmodern outlook on the tacitness of gender has not made anyone be overly critical of non-binary gender identities.

>>7306305
i never really understood why people don't think non binary genders exist, other than the special snowflake stereotype reason.

>>7306407
a couple probably

>>7312541
more like a handful, i remember another one of these polls in another thread and results were exact opposites to this.

>>7306305
why can't i be both gay and trans

>>7306305
What does it mean to have gender dysphoria and identifying as non-binary?

>>7311638
No hormones and brain structure cause males and females to act differently

>>7313742
That's (Me) and uhhh... obviously?

Doesn't mean culture isn't a larger factor in gendered personality development

>>7315969
Yes but I think culture would end up similar regardless because of male and female differences

>>7316330
There are many cultures and cultural values to examine on gender. It varies strongly with place and time