How is the hate Transwomen get not an example of the Oppression of Men.
because trans women aren't men. it's an example of oppression of lgbt people.
>>7051142
But your oppressors view you as Men.
Thus it is the oppression of Men. Controlling Men so they don't act girly.
>>7051168
>But your oppressors view you as Men.
that doesn't mean we are
>>7051168
>Controlling Men so they don't act girly.
Because acting girly is bad. Misogyny. Boom
>>7051208
Its only bad when men do it. Therefore misandry.
>>7051206
>that doesn't mean we are
I know that. But you're not the one doing the oppressing.
>>7051208
>Because acting girly is bad. Misogyny. Boom
Then why are Trans-Men treated like Mentally Ill Women?
Why are Trans-Men considered gross?
Why does society still want Trans-Men to fulfill the female gender role?
>Pic Related
>>7051244
I think you sunk their battleship.
>>7051208
The act of maintaining masculinity in males is an act of misandry by women. Femininity in males as a negative aspect is a myth perpetuated by women as to exert control over males as masculinity is their greatest assest in maintaining male's servitude to women. It is misandry.
>boom
Congrats on making yourself sound stupid, I guess?
>>7051263
a hundred years ago men enforced femininity on women the same way. women created feminism and mostly freed themselves. the men's rights movement could be used to do the same for men, but instead a bunch of manchildren co-opted it to just try and undo feminism.
>>7051280
Yes, I agree, and I am doing that for men.
gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8
>>7051263
Men enforce masculinity on each other you muppet. It's just your own gender bullshit backfiring on you.
If you've got such a complex about it just transition already.
>>7051299
trust me chris wholeheartedly believes all this
>>7051309
They do it at the bequest of women u dummy. We're talking about origins here and the reasons it's perpetuated right now.
>>7051297
You are telling men to cut their balls off as if it is mandatory to be gender nonconforming. You are clearly suffering from some kind of obsessive disorder.
>>7051316
*request
>>7051280
>a hundred years ago men enforced femininity on women the same way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Male_Power
Read this book. Stop saying "Men oppress Women", and start saying "Gender Roles are outdated and oppressive". Men never oppressed Women, because Men were already oppressed themselves.
>the men's rights movement could be used to do the same for men
Then why did you attack my post?
You think my post was about undoing feminism?
No, it was about freeing Men.
Men today are held down by two beliefs:
1. Men should follow their gender roles
2. Men have historically oppressed women
Both are dead wrong. If Feminism wants to care about Men, it has to rid the idea that "Men oppress Women" and instead say "Gender Roles are oppressive and Outdated".
You Feminists are actively hurting Men with this idea that Men have power, and you need to read this fucking book, so that you can see that you're actively hurting men equal to those conservative "man up" assholes.
>>7051309
Read the book...
>>7051310
I love you so much bear.
>>7051252
>But you're not the one doing the oppressing.
Are you saying that the "Oppression of Men" isn't Men being oppressed but instead men oppressing women? Bruh, this fight just tuned into a grammar war.
>>7051336
>read the book
This reminds me of how when anyone disagrees with david icke he invites them to come to a 9 hour lecture.
>it has to rid the idea that "Men oppress Women" and instead say "Gender Roles are oppressive and Outdated"
those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
I think Chris just wants to be cute and not have anyone question his masculinity
>>7051336
>I love you so much bear.
Baby i know it
>>7051168
Okay so it is an example. I guess discussion is over now.
>>7051129
A better question is why is it considered oppressive to tell males that they aren't women?
>>7051372
lemme know when he gets to stage 3.
just some crossdresser with a chip on his shoulder.
>>7051352
Oppression of Men = Men being Oppressed.
Got a better way for me to say it?
>>7051358
>This reminds me of how when anyone disagrees with david icke he invites them to come to a 9 hour lecture.
But am I wrong though, and if where?
>those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
But they aren't entirely intertwined. So don't act like the MAIN ISSUE is Men. The MAIN ISSUE is that people still think forcing Men and Women into oppressive gender roles is the only way to survive as a society.
Remember:
All Female rulers in history (examples: Cleopatra & Catherine The Great, plus many others)
1. Forced Men into meaningless wars for their own personal gain.
2. Forced Men and Women into dividing gender roles.
>>7051380
>why is it considered oppressive to tell males that they aren't women?
You are forcing them into a gender role based on their biological sex.
Nature is sexist, but that doesn't mean we can't engineer earth to be unsexist.
>>7051387
I like my penis too much.
I like my male body.
I watch straight femdom porn.
I like to picture myself as the male sub.
I'm not trans, but I fight tooth and nail for their rights.
>>7051403
>I'm not trans, but I fight tooth and nail for their rights.
the fuck you calling us men for then.
>>7051440
>the fuck you calling us men for then.
No i didn't?
When?
Proof?
Quote me.
>>7051387
>Only trannies don't conform to gender roles.
You are part of the problem.
>>7051142
Except no one gives trouble to FtMs at any stage, no one punishes girls for being boish or wearing non-girly clothes.
Women achieved the rights to wear whatever they want and look however they wont. Men who do not conform to the norms they get persecuted.
>>7051521
because FTMS ARE MEN and society thinks masculinity = good because men = better.
You're not convincing anyone by continually misgendering people.
>>7051206
Your opinion on the topic doesn't mean you're not, either.
>>7051263
except not by women, by elites and state - men always been expendable cannon fodder (since women make shitty fighters and workers)
>>7051545
Read again. I said at 'any stage' - when they are pre-HRT and yet to pass as men.
And not just FtMs, any women.
>>7051309
It's women who define valuable male behavior by selecting who has the right to have offspring.
Women have always chosen to breed with the most masculine and aggressive of men. It's evolutionary biology. Female attention validates men's behavior. And we are advanced creatures with social structure, so women, over time, have learned to rely on men to take care of them trough coupling. And as a result they have evolved to be much weaker in body and much more feminine. Look at nature. Women weren't forced to become weaker by men, they just evolved to be reliant on men, and now they don't need men and are reliant on society (in more advanced places in the world).
Women can never fully understand it, but in the very back of most men's psyche is the intention to impress women. If women were able to look into men and see this and see how much power they have over them, they'd understand that.
>>7051440
He said your "opposition" calls you that, which is a form of misandry by him. You see? It's their logic, not his.
>>7051602
>Women have always chosen to breed with the most masculine and aggressive of men
This is literally a myth and evolutionary psychology is pseudoscience.
You're a retard with a chip on your shoulder.
>>7051602
That is such bullshit I'm laffin. It's like you've never actually studied anything to do with what you're saying and just making sweeping generalizations.
Oh wait.
>>7051545
When they pass we don't know. When they still look like a girl with a boyish haircut, we think they're still a girl and as a result treat them better because that's just what we do, we treat girls more kindly. When they pass and we know they're a FTM, we think they're disgusting.
With MTF it's kind of the opposite. Pre-transition we think they are gross, and as they pass better they become more desirable and we start to treat them like women.
The 'We' in all of this is sort of losely based off other guy's I know opinions. I personally don't think pre-mtf people are gross, but I will be honest and say I do think FTM are kind of disgusting in a sexual way. I also consider myself pansexual.
In a way, I think this dynamic proves the opposite of what you assert. That is that femininity is good and masculinity has less value.
>>7051639
I'm not at all with a chip on my shoulder. I'm in a good relationship and furthermore I don't have any ill-will toward women or the way we've evolved. I just think there should be better understanding of each other and what drives us. We're both in this together and we're both responsible for each others fates.
So evolutionary biology is pseudoscience and feminist rhetoric is real science? None of this is sweeping generalizations, it's the way the animal kingdom works. We're the same. A woman is going to be, on average, more attracted to a taller, stronger male specimen with a more aggressive, active temperament. That's all it's saying. Maybe "the most aggressive" wasn't a good statement because in actuality hyper aggressive behavior was supposedly seen as too risky and undesirable in mate selecting with early humans... Bad risk management skills meant the father likely wouldn't live long.
>>7051650
Care to enlighten me?
>>7051602
stop with this bs, its as dumb as gender marxism aka modern feminism
>>7051702
What you're saying is entirely imaginary and deluded. This goes for all evo psych.
>>7051729
I'd love to be told where it goes wrong. Even in the simplest way possible. Like one line. Genuine question. My opinions are constantly evolving but my reading and my own experiences and feelings inside have me standing here currently.
>>7051740
>>7051740
You're doing the david icke thing again.
His bullshit works because he says things that are true at first, then vague enough for anyone to agree with, then he says subjective things which are popular viewpoints, then he discredits any way to to disagree with what he's saying, then he hits you with the fuckin lizards.
ATTENTION:
Make sure you know who you're talking to.
I have been masturbating to CFNM since 13:21:34
This was my last post >>7051447
You haven't been talking to me.
But i'll be back, after a quick nap.
>>7051770
>true at first
What does that even mean?
>>7051843
You can't be set straight because you're invested in it.
You can't see the wood for the trees.
>>7051809
it means first he'll tell you corporations are running society then he'll tell you science and rationalism was all made up by the elites and then he'll tell you the elites are lizards and ask you to disprove it.
>>7051889
I literally asked to be set straight and then literally said that my opinions are always changing. I think the ones indoctrinated are you both in that you don't say anything, you just say that it's false or petty insults. It's beyond me how you can't see the irony in that.
I'm not asking for "proof" just someone to tell me where they think I'm wrong and maybe what they believe rather than to tell me that men's desired traits have nothing to do with evolution and that's that.
Maybe you think I've been posting here for awhile but >>7051602 is my first post in this thread. I just popped in to post a small stream of consciousness summary of why I believe male behavior and disposability is deeply rooted in female behavior and biology.
>>7052008
I'd try but a billion discussions with my ex over the exact same subject taught me exactly how this shit goes.
It's pointless. This shit is a religion to you guys.
>>7052087
sounds like you resent listening having to his feelings. I hate when men start talking about their feelings like they're anything compared to what women feel.
>>7051244
T H I S
H
I
S
>>7052392
KILL YOURSELF
>>7051168
No they don't. They view us as subhhuman. They just say man because it gets a better reaction, and because they think it proves their point.
The simple fact of the matter is most of those same parts of society don't consider someone a real man unless they are straight and heteronormative.
Speaking on a anthropological level, transwomen don't fall into the social class of men, they either fit in their own class or a subclass of either the "queer" class, or just the class of women, depending on how well they pass and how accepting their environ is.
>>7051263
That's mostly how it works nowadays
However the construct of masculinity has actually conferred a benefit to entire collectives of people in the past, there's a reason that males actually go out of their way to enforce masculinity in other males even though it hurts their own reproductive success
>>7052087
Don't bother posting if you're not actually going to argue and just say "ooh you're so wrong"
>>7051732
Evo psych does tend to border on pseudoscience but that doesn't mean that evolutionary pressures aren't good explanations for differences in behavior. Dissociating gender from evolution makes no sense because differences in mating strategies are literally the basis of gendered behavior
>>7051740
I don't really disagree with your point but I think you are neglecting an important aspect of masculinity and it's communal effect
Sure women benefit from the masculinity guys court them with and they sexually select for it but if that was entirely the case then why do guys still pressure each other to be masculine?
From an individual guys' POV, having every other guy around him be less masculine is actually a benefit since it would improve his own reproductive success relatively to them. There is much incentive to NOT bolster other men's femininity. The reason they do it is not JUST to impress females since it is clear it is often done in a context where there are no females around. It doesn't really make sense for them to actively act homophobic/transphobic just because females prefer that type of behavior. I think that most of the motivation for that type of thing actually happens because of the collective advantage of promoting masculinity. Specifically for the purposes of fighting/fending off males from different collectives who might try to collectively encroach on their resources. Even if all women had no preference for masculine vs. feminine males, there would still be incentive for guys to pressure each other into masculinity because it could confer an advantage to their collective at whatever social organization level they are in (tribe, nationstate, country, race, etc)
>>7052974
naturalism is entirely false you lose
>>7053016
Materialism is the only correct way to look at the world since it's actually capable of providing empirical evidence through material conditions. Everything else is made up bullshit and usually carries some sort of self-serving agenda.
I honestly have no clue how you can begin to talk about gender politics without taking into account evolutionary explanations. Do you think social constructs are just made out of thin air for no reason?
>>7053009
Imaginary bullshit.
>>7053045
Keep deluding yourself.
>>7053080
Consider a population A where the males do not socially pressure each other into masculinity. The reproductive success might be somewhat spread out based on the social organization of the group, but overall they would be much less masculine than a different population B where the males all act macho and use social pressure to keep all the males strong, aggressive, protective, etc.
If group B decides to plunder group A for resources, they will have much better chances of succeeding. They're also likely to kill the males and mate/rape the females. The result would be the elimination of group A (both genetically and memetically) and the continuation of group B.
Now take a bunch of different groups like this with varying degrees of social pressure to act masculine for the males and put them in relative geographic proximity. After enough time, the only groups that will remain will be the ones who promote masculine values because every other group would either be eliminated or would be forced to change it's social institutions to facilitate the necessary amount of masculinity to be able to defend themselves.
Of course there's many more factors such as actual population size, use of technology, etc. My point is is that enforcing masculinity in males is beneficial to the females AND the males in a group, since they all have a collective interest in maintaining their group.
>>7053102
I'm sure you're the only one that's doing that here ;)
>>7053128
>After enough time, the only groups that will remain will be the ones who promote masculine values
this is based on theory and imagination.
the real world works differently.
google "matriarchal society"
>>7053163
More imaginary bullshit.
>>7053163
There hasn't really ever been full on matriarchal societies, at least not nearly to the extent that patriarchies prevailed. It's precisely for the reasons I described above as well.
Some populations existed with a more matrilineal social structures with a smaller division of labour, more social power for the women, more equal resource sharing and reproductive success, etc. All of these societies are mostly a result of the lesser conditions of band and tribe level organizations, and none of them have managed to reliably gain in collective power since the advent of agriculture.
It's rather telling that the most powerful nations and groups throughout history have been male-dominated and aggressively expansive. Matriarchal societies really don't do that.
>>7053128
>it's in womens' best interest to be raped by foreign invaders
The fuck... you are insane. This is so detached from any kind of human experience you must be severely autistic.
>>7053340
>it's in womens' best interest to be raped by foreign invaders
Never said this at all.
I honestly don't know how you inferred this from what I said. I even pointed out that women DO have incentive to reinforce masculinity in males because it protects them physically. Obviously it's not in their interests to be raped by anyone, let alone foreign invaders.
>>7051129
Trans women aren't men, and a non-trivial amount of transmisogyny comes from men who think unmasculine men deserve to be hurt. If anything, it's an example of the oppression of feminine men, not men in general. Trans women and femboys are treated similarly by society, but ordinary gender-conforming cis men aren't treated that way.
>>7051263
How are women responsible for this, when much of the hate of feminine men comes from other men? Do men not have free will?
>>7051336
>Men never oppressed Women, because Men were already oppressed themselves.
Those who are oppressed can still oppress others. It's not a binary classification of oppressors vs oppressed, it's more like a food chain. Only those at the very bottom do not oppress anyone - those in the middle are oppressed by those above, and oppress those below them.
>>7051602
>It's women who define valuable male behavior by selecting who has the right to have offspring.
Men do the same to women though - you need two willing participants to have offspring.
>Women have always chosen to breed with the most masculine and aggressive of men.
Those traits are only considered "masculine" because they're common in men now.
>>7051809
Basically very vague stuff that everyone agrees with. Any ideology can be made to sound good if you use vague enough language:
Naziism: "We just want to restore Germany's prosperity"
Communism: "We just want to protect the working class from exploitation"
Feminism: "We just want to end sexism against women"
Anti-Vaxxers: "We just don't want children to be exposed to untested medicine".
>>7053340
He never said that
>>7053355
This.
Children dying was common back in the day, so Women chose the most masculine Men they could in attempt to produce the strongest offspring.
>>7053226
>There hasn't really ever been full on matriarchal societies
>Matriarchal societies really don't do that.
Pick one.
Have you ever heard of Catherine The Great? She was practically a dictator, and she coulda done whatever she wanted. And she choose to send Men to war, to massacre another group of people.
>>7053411
Read this book.
You keep saying stupid shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Male_Power
And, you sound completely sexist while doing it.
You're right he didn't say it.
He said it implicitly rather than explicitly. Observe!
>If group B decides to plunder group A for resources, they will have much better chances of succeeding. They're also likely to kill the males and mate/rape the females. The result would be the elimination of group A (both genetically and memetically) and the continuation of group B.
>My point is is that enforcing masculinity in males is beneficial to the females AND the males in a group, since they all have a collective interest in maintaining their group.
This simply isn't talking about human beings with their own wants, feelings, thoughts and desires. This is some evo psych pseudoscience bullshit. If we took it at it's word, women would consider being raped by foreign invaders a good thing because their offspring will be more likely to survive as the children of the winners.
In reality that's completely fucking stupid and is ignoring so much about human culture and thought that only someone who is incredibly socially stunted could have ever come up with it.
>>7053589
>He never said that
Don't assume my gender shitlord reeeeee
>Pick one.
I don't see why I can't pick both. There has been very few legitimately matriarchal societies, and of those that have existed they tended to not be particularly militaristic
I don't think something like Catherine the Great is such a good example. The social environment at the time was still quite patriarchal for the majority of families. The only reason she specifically had so much power was because she was married to the king who got killed, and she could only retain that power because she had the trust of the other people high up in the social structure which were almost entirely men.
>>7053734
>women would consider being raped by foreign invaders a good thing because their offspring will be more likely to survive as the children of the winners.
This is assuming women have no vested interest in maintaining their memetic legacy like men do (in the form of ancestor worship in tribal organizations, religion in nationstates, race in modern states, etc). They care about their own reproductive success but they also care about their community, and saying otherwise is just pointlessly misogynistic.
Although you are right that they have some incentive to do that. It's part of the reason rape is such a prevalent theme in women's erotica. If their kids do eventually get better life outcomes and they are treated well, then it's not really THAT bad if their ex husband or whatever got killed. It's also why women tend to manage breakups so much better since they're able to shift their emotional focus to the next man efficiently
>>7053821
For the sake of fuck,
would you just listen for five minutes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Raufh8fP8
excellent troll.
good job, man
>>7054738
Listen up:
The two beliefs systems hurting Men right now are:
1. Gender roles are necessary for a society's survival
2. Men oppress Women because society is Male dominated
Both are false, and are ruining Men.
More information can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Raufh8fP8
>>7054755
>1. Gender roles are necessary for a society's survival
They still are. Maybe it will change in the future but not yet. The problem we have is with strict enforcing of gender roles on minority of boys who naturally dont conform. Majority will adhere to them anyway, its not just social construct.
>>7054932
A lot of it is.
Most of it is thought based.
Rationalized.
Not instinct, but rationalized.
>>7054940
What all of it? Gender behavior differences manifest even in toddlers who haven't been conditioned by society and correlates with sex hormones.
>>7054932
Explain to mean why you need gender rolls to breath, eat food, and not murder other people?
>>7054952
I've seen with my own eyes, a 3 year old boy who stopped playing with Dolls because he believed "Dolls are for girls", He didn't quit because he wanted to, he quit because he was afraid of other people's opinions.
They act based on observation.
>>7054966
You are talking about basic organism functions when the subject is society.
When gender roles break (ie due to overpopulation or deliberate destruction of traditions) the whole society crumbles, the reproduction dies off and it's a path to extinction. It's been observed on animal models and It's happening right now in the western world.
>>7054970
No need tor anecdotal evidence. There are researches on the subject. Females are naturally more interested in interpersonal contacts, they react better to the faces, and that's why girls learn to speak few months earlier in general - better contact with their parents, and thats why girls prefer dolls vs tech toys. Boys brains are more interested in complex patterns.
>>7051280
This! Also its hilarious how much you triggered the mra top kek!
>>7051602
>its a basement dwelling NEET claims women are opressing the men by not shagging them!
>>7055012
That has nothing to do with gender roles, and everything to do with rape. In societies that mass produce babies, it's no illegal for a man to rape a woman so long as her parents sold her to him legally. If you're so concerned that your kind aren't breeding face enough, you should be voting for politicians that are pro-rape.
There have been societies that were also accepting of LGBT people that were also pro-rape, and they had no problem breeding lots and lots of babies.
>>7055029
>Its a desperate NEET trying to prove why teh girlies dont like him
top kek
>>7055029
>Male feminist
now you trolling nigga.
>>7055033
Please prove your thesis:
>You are a desperate NEET trying to prove why girls don't like you
I highlighted it for you:
>>7055039
>>7055059
You know, just jokingly around like this, also helps strengthen my cause.
>>7055062
>Arguing with people on 4chan makes me stronger
so tell me...do you ever leave the basement at all?
>>7055066
Prove that I live in a basement.
>>7055069
You get a lot of meaning and self esteem from talking to strangers on a shitty chinese cartoon board. Its implicated that you live in an area devoid of real human interaction, which would lead someone to the conclusion of a basement. however i could be wrong, maybe a garden shed?
>>7055074
Prove:
>You get a lot of meaning and self esteem from talking to strangers
just a bunch of dull shitposting
>>7055090
Only recently
>>7051129
Because nobody hates hons more than themselves
>>7055076
Out of arguments i see you've now been proved a neet.
>>7055115
How tf does that argument disprove the statement?
>>7051244
It's only bad when men do it because men are expected to be as little like women as possible. Being seen as anything like a woman is, for a man, shameful, because femininity is looked upon as lesser than masculinity. That's why some people hate trans women. Anyone who would eschew masculinity in favor of femininity disrupts the mysogynist view of the gender hierarchy.
A man who acts feminine will be seen as weak because women are seen as weak. That's misogyny, not misandry.
Hatred of trans men also stems from misogyny though. They disrupt the gender hierarchy in a different way. For the longest time, AFAB people were expected to know their place and keep to it. Stay in the home and don't try to be the equal of men. Also, because femininity is seen as lesser and unworthy of men, any association with it, past or present, would make one seem like "less of a man" to mysogynists.
Which isn't to say that all transphobia is based misogyny. TERFS see trans women as men and hate us because of their disdain for men.
>>7051129
nobody is oppressed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO5zKcsLWX0
>>7055115
It's not that people are taught to hate themselves.
They are taught what to like and hate themselves for not fitting into that desirable goal.
>>7055943
>because femininity is looked upon as lesser than masculinity
No it's not, femininity is looked upon as the proper and correct thing for females. It is not "lesser" but complementary to masculinity.
>That's why some people hate trans women.
Because they are men who aren't fulfilling their gender role which poses a risk to them
>Anyone who would eschew masculinity in favor of femininity disrupts the mysogynist view of the gender hierarchy.
No they don't, they're just percieved as weak and not able to be masculine. Their preference is interpreted as an abdication of responsibility.
You're basically implying that anyone who hates femininity in males is doing it because they are afraid of them signalling that femininity is somehow superior or preferable to masculinity which goes against their own "hierarchy". It's ridicolous, they don't give a shit about a faggot's preference for acting feminine. They are upset because he is not fulfilling his designated role in society.
>A man who acts feminine will be seen as weak because women are seen as weak. That's misogyny, not misandry.
So thinking that women are weak relative to men is misogyny?
What do you actually think misogyny looks like?
If a woman gets too uppity and her man slaps her to get back in the kitchen, is that misogyny?
He obviously doesn't think that femininity is undesirable or inferior, he thinks it's NECESSARY for females to maintain feminine performance. A misogynist pressures women to CONFORM to femininity because of sexist ideology that begets gender roles based on sex.
Now if that same sexist person sees a male dressed up in a maid outfit cleaning kitchen and he calls him a faggot and abuses him, is that misogyny again?
Obviously not, because the source of malice here is not "hatred of femininity/females", it is hatred of gender non-conformance based on sexist ideology.
Therefore a case where a male is pressured to CONFORM to masculinity is MISANDRY, not misogyny.
>>7056023
>So thinking that women are weak relative to men is misogyny?
Yes. Viewing someone as inferior simply for being female/feminine is a textbook exaple of misogyny?
>If a woman gets too uppity and her man slaps her to get back in the kitchen, is that misogyny?
Yes, most definitely.
>He obviously doesn't think that femininity is undesirable or inferior, he thinks it's NECESSARY for females to maintain feminine performance. A misogynist pressures women to CONFORM to femininity because of sexist ideology that begets gender roles based on sex.
Does he think it would be okay for the woman to slap him if he cries or says he wants to look pretty or expresses any other kind of "un-feminine" behavior? If not, then its not just general enforcement of gender roles; it is misogyny since the man feels that it is okay to use violence to force women to behave according to his idea of feminity, yet he would not think it acceptable for women to police his gender expression the same way.
>>7055943
Are you a woman? Do you feel complimented when someone calls you mannish?
>>7056023
>Therefore a case where a male is pressured to CONFORM to masculinity is MISANDRY, not misogyny.
It's more complicated than that. People who viciously enforce gender conformity don't necessarily hate men or women, they hate gender non-conformity. It's sexism, not misandry. Misandry is a generalized hatred of males. Sexism is unfair treatment based on sex.
Misandry would be more applicable to TERFs misdirecting their hatred onto trans women because of their internalized prejudice towards men. The average transphobe doesn't hate men. They're just sexist and grossed out by gender non conformity.
>>7056518
>Viewing someone as inferior simply for being female/feminine is a textbook exaple of misogyny?
Not inferior just DIFFERENT, with various strengths and capabilities that don't manifest the same as in masculinity.
Women are physically weaker than men by a significant degree. Almost all females are weaker than below average males, this amount of dimorphism in strength is one of the main causes of gendered behavior.
Tell me if men thought masculinity is so great and femininity is so terrible, then why did femininity become enforced in the first place? Why aren't masculine women held up to a high regard and lauded as superior to feminine ones?
>Does he think it would be okay for the woman to slap him if he cries or says he wants to look pretty or expresses any other kind of "un-feminine" behavior?
As a sexist? Of course he does. He expects everyone to maintain gender roles and use social pressure and even physical violence because he thinks it's desirable for the group, for himself, etc. He might prefer that a female not use physical violence herself because that would not be considered feminine, but if they had a son for example then he would most definitely expect her to pressure him to perform masculinity correctly.
>feels that it is okay to use violence to force women to behave according to his idea of feminity
This is classical feminist rhetoric, take an issue that affects both sexes and only focus on the female disadvantage. When it comes to violence, men are MUCH more likely to use it on other MEN to enforce gender roles. Women rarely need to actually be physically forced since they can be coerced due to the physical dimorphism I mentioned above. Whether a sexist thinks it's okay to use violence on women is irrelevant, since he is willing to use his physical force on anyone in general that doesn't conform to their gender expectation. This means people who are weaker than him, which are entirely women and weak men.
>>7056567
I am a woman and I would feel hurt if I were called mannish, but that's partially because of disphoria and partly because I see myself as feminine. I don't see masculinity as any better or worse than femininity from an objective standpoint. But subjectively, masculinity just doesn't fit who I am, and it's now how I want to be seen. If another woman wants to be more masculine or if a man wants to be feminine, then I support that.
>>7056627
I'm sure you see my point. It's not hard to imagine men who've had their gender expression questioned feel the same..
>>7056604
>Misandry is a generalized hatred of males. Sexism is unfair treatment based on sex.
So going by that logic, misogyny is just generalized hatred of females?
Do you think a guy who pressures a girl into performing femininity actually hates females? If so then why does he only display that kind of attitude to women who don't conform to their gender? Does he just hate them even more than the regular feminine females?
What I find even more absurd is that you somehow also connect femininity to inferiority all while saying it's hated. Do you hate things that are inferior to you? If you have all the power and someone is beneath you, why would you hate them? At best you'll feel pity for them and try to treat them with respect. At worst you will find them to be a nuisance to be directed and discarded. There is absolutely no point in HATING someone you consider to be inferior to you.
>The average transphobe doesn't hate men
The average misogynist that makes sandwich jokes or wears a lewd shirt or something doesn't hate women either. He simply thinks that women need to be socially pressured into performing gender in a certain way they find beneficial. He also thinks men should be pressured into performing masculinity, which is why he might use physical violence on a boy in his family who displays traits of transsexuality.
>>7056626
>then why did femininity become enforced in the first place?
Because it's considered the appropriate behavior for women.
>>7056681
It's not hard at all, but it's also not about that. A man who wants to be masculine is free to be masculine. But when a man wants to express feminine characteristics, he is shunned by others because of societal views on femininity.
>>7051129
how is the hate women get not an example of the oppression of men?
bet you can't answer this
checkmate atheists
Anybody who thinks society is a patriarchy needs to skip to 12:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Raufh8fP8
Society is dominated by Men and Women in thinned out ways.
The only reason we don't know this, is because Men are not allowed to express their emotions.
If society was Patriarchal:
Men wouldn't be forced into "the body guard" sex.
fuck off chris you insane psycho
>>7058504
How can I be a psycho, if all my facts check out?