Me:You shouldn't take black market hormones if there's

>>6741836
Story
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/transgender-teens-buying-black-market-hormones/7722084

>don't buy drugs
>kill self from dysphoria

vs

>buy drugs
>chance to die
>but also chance of passing

idk senpai which sounds like the better decision to take :^)

>>6741836
It's the same things you get from a pharmacy, there's no risk to it
This doesn't make you a bigot, but it makes you a naive retard, to believe that it would pose a threat.

>"Sometimes that has actually placed them at quite high risk, because the medication you get through the internet is not the correct dose, and it's often a combination of different hormones that have effects that can cause problems like blood clots, strokes, pulmonary emboli — really serious life-threatening complications," she said.
Sounds like she's retarded enough to believe they buy it from places like silkroad and it's alternatives.
They're always the right "dose", 1mg is 1mg, they don't produce their own estrogens, they buy it from the same places other pharmacies buy theirs from.

>>6741874
More like
>Don't buy hormones
>~90% chance to die

vs

>Buy hormones online
>Follow guidelines
>Have a 1% - 0,01% chance to die

>>6741884
Well t b h if you see some of the retarded shit posted even on here I wouldn't be surprised to hear what kinds of hormone "regimens" normies would come up with

>>6741874
Seek therapy and obtain drugs in a safe way.
Killing yourself is a choice, it just doesn't happen to you.
>>6741884
>This doesn't make you a bigot, but it makes you a naive retard, to believe that it would pose a threat.
I'm just going by the article. The amount of melodramatics and hostility I got from telling people to consider safety was ridiculous.

>>6741908
Repeating completely uneducated and naive opinions tend to cause hostility.

>Seek therapy and obtain drugs in a safe way.
So now you're saying you didn't actually read the article.
Getting hormones (not drugs, holy shit, aspirin is more of a drug), through doctors etc isn't an option, it was even clearly stated in the article.

>Killing yourself is a choice, it just doesn't happen to you.
Dying in an "accident" is also a choice, since you made the decisions to do a certain thing, or be at a specific place at a specific time.
If suicide wasn't actually a legitimate uncontrollable way to die, there wouldn't be mental health care.

So yeah, you're not just retardedly naive, you are actually a bigot as well.

>>6741908
>Seek therapy and obtain drugs in a safe way.

I can't do both?

Look, just like how the article points out, there's retarded gatekeeping in place to keep trannies out. It takes too damn long, and in some places they want you to "present female" for YEARS before they give you titty skittles. That's insane.

And it's wrong for me to spend my hard earned money on drugs that would allow me to cut the crap and get the good stuff early?

I'm not saying you shouldn't tell people to consider safety, I think it's nice what you're doing, but you can't tell people not to play smart with the broken system in place. Until they fix the system, I'm sorry but trannies gonna keep popping pills from "the black market".

Also see >>6741884 2mg, 4mg, -- it's all the same anyways, but regular blood checkups should still be done, I agree.

>>6741929
Why would it cause hostility? Maybe it's an opportunity to EDUCATE people instead of being bigots yourself.
And no, an "accident" is not a choice. No amount of whining changes that. This is why even many lgbt tends to dislikes trans.

>>6741940
They can do that,they can reform the courts and so forth. I just don't think its' worth (theoretical) damage to your health.

>>6741964
>They can do that,they can reform the courts and so forth

And that simply takes time. Getting everything to comply, passing new laws, all too long. In 5 minutes I can go to inhousepharmacy and order a month's worth of E.

>I just don't think its' worth (theoretical) damage to your health.

Everything has risk, and the bottom line is that the risk of suicide from dysphoria > medical risks from E by a long shot.

>>6741950
An accident is a choice, you made the decisions leading to the accident yourself.
At least in your mental world, since you believe suicide is something people "decide to do".

Repeating absolutely retarded this will cause hostility, because you haven't even taken half a second to reflect on that opinion to figure out that it's complete and utter bullshit.
You're just blatantly showing how ignorant you are.

How old are you? At least 18, otherwise you're underaged.
How can an adult be as naive as a literal child?

At one point in time, newspapers and journalism may have been trying to dig forth truth, from government secrets, in it's early infancy.
Nowadays, and probably for a very long time, all articles are heavily tainted by bias, ignorance and incompetence, simply to either get click bait money, or to try to scream out your heavily biased opinion.
Whatever you read in the news (unless it's an actual unbiased source, like actual factual reports of incidents), is likely to barely have any truth in it. If you are an adult, with even a quarter of a brain, you should know that by now.

If you don't have your levels checked and now how much your useing you could really fuck yourself up and possibly make your body produce more testosterone.

>>6741987
Yes,you decide to kill yourself. That's the whole point of suicide. Trans people often invent a million terms and an entire etiquette separate from the rest of society and then get mad when people don't play along.

>>6742016
>We did an experiment
>We physically and mentally tortured subjects all through out growing up
>We kept it from socializing and actually living a life
>We then let the subjects get a taste of what other people lived like
>However, we after some time of getting used to, brought them back to their actual life
>The subjects killed themselves

>From this
>"We conclude that such treatment is not a danger for a persons health"
>"The subjects were never in any danger, they simply decided to kill themselves on their own accord"
You're literally retarded.
It's a good thing you'll never reproduce, not because you're LGBT, but because you'll never find a girlfriend.

>>6742011
You can always check your levels, I've read about this teenager who self-medded, and she had doctors checking her levels and making sure she was safe.

But prescribing hormones to her, themselves? Pffft, no.

I don't like either side of this argument. On the one hand, you have retarded pedophile nazis saying "Don't transition because muh heritage, muh Christianity!" On the other hand you have retarded pedophile nazis saying "Huehuehue let's trick a bunch of cis children into taking hormones because epic funnay maymay!" And then for a third side of the argument, you have retarded nazi pedophile doctors saying "Nuh uh, you can't have the medicine you need, huehuehue, huehuehue, we make the rules and we don't care about you, huehuehue!"

Really, cis heterosexual people should just shut the fuck up.

>>6742011
Just ask a doctor to get a blood test, it's not like they can stop you from taking the drugs.
It's kind of like how alcoholics can go get liver tests and such and still be alcoholics. Doctors aren't the police, they're not going to raid your house and take all your estrogen.

>>6742011
>shilling so hard for blood tests
what are you, a private lab doing blood tests?

>>6742040
Whining and excuses

>>6742058
not that anon but what?

it's common sense to check your blood levels

you might naturally have low T and not need as much E, might even skip Spiro altogether. Or it could be the opposite and you've got T out the wazoo and need extra E and even more Spiro than normal.

You never know unless you get your blood regularly checked

>>6741836
Fucking BIGOTTT

>>6741836
You from /r/socialism, senpai?

>>6741836
>black market
hahaha what?

>>6742011
>possibly make your body produce more testosterone.
not really, unless you're taking low doses of estrogen with no anti-andro

>>6741836
Your PoV on the surface is alright anon, but you really are uninformed on this. It's not 'blackmarket' hormones, it's just the same shit, ordered from foreign pharmacies that don't always ask for prescriptions. It's not that dangerous unless you're stupid with them and don't good dosages. Th other person shouldn't have freaked out but you should have done more research before giving your opinion, and they should have tried to educate you.

>>6741836
>>6741839
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/827713

Femboy pills are safe, much safer than contraceptives and other OTC meds clinical research proves.

You're not stormfront, you're just an incompetent pathetic fool who thought he could play doctor.

Stick to picking trash, you obviously have no capacity for anything above that.

More like

You: You shouldn't take black market hormones if there's a chance it will cause serious organ damage.
Me: Yeah but if I don't take them I'll remain apathetic about dying and countinue to have suicidal thoughts

>>6743795
Oh I didn't read the rest. Sorry I'm retarded. You're probably just uninformed since you're most likely a relatively normal person. That tranny was basically being a huge tumblr-tard.

>>6741836
>hormones from the internet are risky
Having gender dysphoria is risky, fool! If you consistently have angina, you don't wait a year for a doctor to pull his head out of his ass and tell you to take aspirin/nitroglycerin, you go out and you just fucking buy it to make yourself better.

>>6741836
>hormones from the internet are risky
No they aren't, just get them from a verified marketplace like alldaychemist and don't overdose like a retard; you'll be completely fine.

>>6741836
>Me:You shouldn't take black market hormones if there's a chance it will cause serious organ damage.
The hormones are never "black market" though, as long as you aren't taking too high of a dose you'll be okay more than likely. While it's safer to go through the normal routes, in a lot of places part of the process is something called "Real Life Experience". What that is, is making some poor fucking kid go out crossdressing making a fool of themselves for 6 months to a year of their lives which does nothing but bad to the person's mental health due to the non-passing, and the social abuse that comes from being non-passing.
The smartest thing to do if you don't have an informed consent clinic in your area would be to self-med, and get blood tests from a doctor every 3 months, adjusting your dosage based on that. Make sure you do your research on the hormones.

I would not recommend this approach for FtM's because testosterone is much much more dangerous than estrogen. Plus FtMs have it ezpz when it comes to passing, just man up and do your RLE :^)
>Trans person: OMG YOU FUCKING BIGOT HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT. YOU'RE PRIVILEGED
get off tumblr

File: Cjs31MbWsAEdVf9.jpg (31KB, 600x375px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 600x375px

>>6741836
Op is right guys. You don't just take black market drugs. Those kinds of things are f u c k e d. Imagine how easy some chink in vietnam could mix up a bad pill with your little sissy pills.

>>6741836

People don't like being told what to do by others who don't know their circumstances, and the trade-offs they feel forced to make. It's rude to dismiss a health risk as stupid and unnecessary, rather than considering that the person pursuing it might be at even greater risk if they do nothing. Ideally they'd be at no risk at all, but that's not reality for a lot of people.
It's like handing out condoms to teenagers. Ideally they just wouldn't have sex, and that needs to be acknowledged as a valid option, but we all know what abstinence-only education leads to. All you can do is educate people on the options available and the risks involved, and hope they make the best decision for them.
You can't accuse someone of being ignorant about the risks of self-medicating when you yourself are ignorant of the risks of potentially not being able to transition at all.

Try this on for size
>If you decide to take hormones without medical guidance, you need to cultivate that medical knowledge for yourself and become educated on the following health risks, etc. Please put your safety first when deciding whether pursuing this alone is the safer choice compared to going through the medical system.

>>6741908
>The amount of melodramatics and hostility I got from telling people to consider safety was ridiculous.

You might as well criticise someone for jumping out of a burning building. Yes, that's a massive risk or injury or death, but to not take it means almost certain injury or death.
When it comes to trans people, or people with other potentially suicide-inducing conditions, outsiders just can't see the fire. All you're seeing is someone jumping out of the window instead of walking down the stairs and going out the front door, but that's not what's happening. There's a reason people take these risks, and to imply it's simply out of ignorance of the danger is condescending and dismissive.

Being met with hostility isn't great, but it's understandable why someone who's in a situation where they're forced to make these kind of decisions would be unable to express themselves level-headedly. If you have the benefit of being in a position where taking this sort of risk is so unnecessary that it's not even an option, maybe you need to be the one to try and be level headed about it.

>>6742051
>Doctors aren't the police, they're not going to raid your house and take all your estrogen.
On that point, could the police do that? What's the legality here?

>>6743993
Maybe they could confiscate it.
It's not narcotics, so I really doubt you could be punished for it.

>>6743993

Theoretically, as a customer of an illicit pharmacy, you could be subpoenaed in a case against that pharmacy. You would have to testify under oath about the drugs you received from them, and then those drugs might be taken up as evidence. It's a one in a million chance.

But they're never going to make a case against you. There's no law against possessing unscheduled non-narcotic drugs, even if they're supposed to be prescription-only.

>>6744023
There's no legal precedent for confiscation besides the above scenario.

>>6742016
I love how you can't come up to her absolutely flawless logical arguments with anything but pathetic whining that exposes your real motivation of bigotry.

Kill yourself, subhuman.

>>6741908
>killing yourself is a choice

Someone's never been suicidally depressed before.

>>6741908
>melodramatics
All of the health risks mentioned in that article are uncommon.

http://transcience-project.org/hormones.html

>>6741874

The people who would off themselves if they don't get hormones will do it anyway on hormones. HRT is nice but isn't magical, and once it doesn't turn them in to pretty-pretty-princess in 3 months, they'll be back in a hot tub with a razor blade in no time. They're losers. Seeing a shrink is the WAY WAY WAY more important part of transitioning.

>>6745351
Been depressed all my life and considered it many times. It is definitely a choice, stop convincing yourself you're a special snowflake and that you have no choices about suicidal thoughts. You seem like am Aaron, so I'm gonna call you Aaron. You see Aaron, you're a dumb as for multiple reasons, but this is just the top.

>>6741836
I blame the government. It's like prohibition, but worse because this is an actually medically needed treatment.

No wonder 42% of teen MtFs and 46% of teen FtMs try to kill themselves. Society and the system are anally raping us all.

>>6745413
>The people who would off themselves if they don't get hormones will do it anyway on hormones.
Citation needed fampai.

>>6741884
>>6742440
>>6742505
>>6743893
>>6743917
>>6745394
>It's the same things you get from a pharmacy, there's no risk to it
But it's BLACK MARKET!!!!! Just read that evil-no-good-sounding name, it must be BAD!!Q!

They must come from some shady russian-chinese-communist south-american-drug-lord-socialist unholy-muslim-terrorism-fueling super-villain!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!

>>6742068
Isn't this whole thread op whining that someone upset them by calling them a bigot instead of giving never-ending thanks and praise for their genius warning about the dangers of the evil black market slipping poison into their tranny-nuggies?

>>6745439
>But it's BLACK MARKET!!!!! Just read that evil-no-good-sounding name
You racist piece of shit

>>6745456
It's not my fault that black markets commit more crimes!

>>6745418
>Been depressed all my life and considered it many times.
There's a difference between considering it and attempting it. You're conflating an intellectual exercise with a mental episode.

It's been observed that just putting up fences on bridges and such is plenty to curb someone having a legitimate suicidal episode, not because it's impossible to climb over them but because that simple delay and problem solving requirement enables a suicidal person to come to their senses.

You might as well say a panic attack is a choice. Yes, people are capable to turn things over in their head and work themselves up unnecessarily, or even taking themselves to the edge but coming down from it. But there are also many people for whom it's a physiological response and there's very little they can do about it other than recognise and manage it.

>>6745465

They wouldn't have to if the white market didn't lock them into a cycle of poverty!

>>6741836
>article claims hormones online are impure
>doesn't show a single certificate of analysis
>doesn't show a single speck of evidence
dropped

>>6745413
Hon detected

Shrinks love old men who act like caricatures of women a lot more that cute younger patients who still have an actual personality. But being a caricature of a woman won't make you any less of a monster.

Deranged pervert

>>6745413

psychologists aren't important, and they aren't automatically on your side or willing to respect you or do anything for you other than sit there and space out for 50 minutes while you bitch and then suck up your cash and tell you things will get better someday. don't put them on a pedestal. it's just some human with a piece of paper certifying that they wrote some essays and made a rat run a maze

>>6745638
My mother has made me go to several. I think this is accurate for most of them desu

>>6745477
Oh sure, sure "he a good market, he dindu nuffin! he was out that day spreading the word of the free-market!"

anyone know how to get cheap black market T?

>>6741836
Trying to bring logic or reason to that situation was ur first mistake

>>6745795

#BLACKMARKETSMATTER