Why didn't everyone use super long katana?
>>35186629
you wouldn't understand the katana is a spiritual weapon and you can't fathom anything about Japanese culture it's more advanced than you can ever even imagine I know because I'm an expert I train with a katana every single day while you're wasting your life away playing with stupid "guns". I could kill you without you even realizing you were dead
I have studied the Samurai arts and am on my way to becoming an honorary Japanese I even make myself happy on pictures of Japanese girls and authentic anime you just watch western porn
>>35186629
They're all super long when you're 4'11".
>>35186629
>>35186681
>OP same fagging
Don't care if you post screenshot. You dropped your parents WiFi and posted on your parents family cellular data plan.
>>35186629
Same reason not every soldier is carrying a .50 cal. Different weapons serve different purposes.
>>35186765
I mean... I actually answered the question though, not sure how that is samefagging but whatever.
>>35186765
Linking every post in thread is spam. Enjoy your ban newboy.
>>35186629
>Why didn't everyone use super long katana?
Shit's heavy, yo.
Look at this katana. bastard weighs about 2.7 kilos. Ever tried swinging around your shopping bags?
Swords were sidearms
The samurai were archers and polearm fighters (as was everyone)
All that to say, the samurai were indeed close combat experts and practiced with their sidearms more than anyone at the time.
>>35186806
Actually, it's not. I didn't even report you. Holy fucking newfag. Is Reddit giving out coupons for free 4chan gold passes?
>>35186629
Because its a cutting weapon.
The longer a cutting sword is the more the blade has to curve. The more the blade curves, the more a swordsman has to move to properly draw cut.
The more you move your body in the motion of cutting, the harder it will be to parry or dodge a incoming attack.
So you have two choices
>Make short insufficient cuts at a longer distance
or
>Make superfluous cuts they leave your guard open.
you essentially make a heavy pole arm, that cant stab because the curve is too extreme. Which makes a inefficient pole arm.
>>35186629
One wrong swing & it shatters
>>35187013
This is trolling for sure, but ill respond.
the Japanese used differential hardening. They are more likely to bend than to shatter.
>>35187031
Shattering confirmed
>muh folded 10000000 times
>>35187042
SHUT UP
>>35187042
anon, they folded it to turn their nigger pig iron into shit steel. You don't do hot working at welding temperatures.
>>35187286
>turn
*burn
>>35187286
I guess the nice thing about pig iron here is that, well, "pig" doesn't sound very good now, does it? So when you want to trash talk you call stuff pig iron, even though that doesn't really say anything about the quality. It's basically cast iron, it can be poor quality such, or it can be great quality, we don't know. The name should be from it being cast into ingots, aka pigs. This is also how pretty much all iron and steel today starts out as it's poured form the blast furnace, though we usually pour it straight into an ld-converter and make steel of it all before it has a chance to solidify. Letting it cool down before that would just be a waste of heat.
There is a problem with using it in this context though. That being that the Japanese didn't make cast iron, the tatara process they settled on instead making a mix of low carbon iron (the very opposite of cast iron) and steel. The latter was then sorted out for swords and whatever else needed such material, with the former being used for all the various everyday items that had no need for anything else.
>>35187286
I know, I'm just screwing with anons
>MUH piss poor nippig metal
>>35187362
>and steel
And where did they get that from...
>>35186681
I fucking love this
>>35186629
after a certain length its not even a katana anymore, pretty sure its either a nodachi or odachi
>>35186629
Cuz it was for fighting cavalry you moron
>>35187515
The tatara process creates a large bloom of ferrous metal with a varying carbon content throughout. Some parts are iron, some parts are high carbon steel, and in between you get everything in between.
>>35187611
So you mix iron and refined pig iron.
>>35187652
No, there's no pig iron involved at any stage in the process from ore to sword. It's not a crucible steel process or some such, the tatara takes ore and charcoal and makes some steel straight away. As can other bloomery furnaces, if you get the process parameters just right.
>>35187739
I'm not shitposting anymore.
It's literally just "lameo, we made some sort of steel on accident. separate it from the iron", or did they have a separate production method for iron?
Am I wrong
>>35187578
Sasaki Kojiro used the long katana to become the most gifted swordsman in Japan.
>>35187765
>made some sort of steel on accident. separate it from the iron
The initial discovery may have been more or less accidental, but that would most likely be long before the time period we're interested in. The mix material result would have been the expected result. And to have such a material come out of a bloomery furnace isn't anything strange, we're not looking at some strange and exotic Japanese speciality here. Tryign to create a pure steel product may either have demanded process parameters the tatara design couldn't meet, reduced yield to a less profitable level, or cost too much in extra fuel consumption.
I don't know if there was also smelting going on in Japan at the time that only produced iron. Considering the greater monetary value of steel I'd assume that if such was the case then the solely iron-making runs would have been smaller scale, perhaps something peasants did for a side income or so. Smaller furnaces will also tend towards lower amounts of carbon in the produced material. Cast iron production doesn't seem to have been a thing, not in significant amounts at least, until after the Meiji restoration or so.
>>35187652
Pig iron gets the name from when the blast furnace was opened and the cast iron would pour out in streams that were designed to make it form ingots. All of the ingots connected to the larger stream look like pigglets feeding off of their mother, which is where the term originates from. Like he said, it sounds bad therefore people keep repeating the term, but in reality the Japanese used their own variation of bloomeries.
Bloomeries provide for very random results. You see, you have an oxide like FeO or Fe3O4 or whatever, (in reality it's more complicated but whatever) and you add carbon from the coal and heat everything up. Then the oxygen leaves the iron and goes with the carbon, forming CO or CO2, and leaving pure Fe behind. Once all of the oxygen is burned off, the carbon starts bonding with the iron itself. The problem is that you can't make this perfectly homogeneous, and this reaction doesn't require the iron to be liquid (can't really mix things). Since it's not homogeneous, some parts will be "ready" before others, and while the reaction keeps going, they'll just get more and more carbon while others will just have time to become pure iron. That's why the smiths need to select different pieces to get the appropriate carbon contents.
>>35186629
Hard to sit.
>>35187554
>after a certain length its not even a katana anymore, pretty sure its either a nodachi or odachi
Katana means sword, anon.
It's not a kind of sword and in English basically means all swords from Japan.
>>35188015
It is the general term, but I'm pretty sure there is a specific kind of sword that they call "Katana". I think it has different kanji. Same with Tachi. "Tachi" can either be a really old style straight sword, or a military curved sword that fits the generic understanding of katana quite well, but they use different kanji.
>>35187980
I am on the opinion that pig iron has a bad name because chinks are incompetent and it was/is a massively outdated method of production that they still managed to fuck up.
>>35186681
>without you even realizing you were dead
I'm fine with this.
It would only increase my power level and open up a new skill tree.
>>35187362
I swear I heard heavy,labored breathing as I read this.
>>35186681
Best post I've ever seen in my life.
>>35188048
>but I'm pretty sure there is a specific kind of sword that they call "Katana". I think it has different kanji.
Literally no. http://jisho.org/search/sword
They make a distinction between the edges but a dao or whatver are both perfectly describes as katana/刀. In fact, it's extremely common, dao itself being the same thing (i.e. nothing more than Chinese word for sword). the pattern repeats for just about any culture with slightly different sword design where English simply adopts their word for sword as the word for that kind of shape in general.
>>35188015
You'd have to be colloquial in the extreme to get to that point. As it is Japanese sword fancying groups like the NTHK consider katana to be a much more precise term, the National Museum in Tokyo will likewise distinguish between for example katana and tachi, and that's also the view on things you'll find in works like Yumoto's "The Samurai Sword", Sato's "The Japanese Sword", Nagayama's "The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords" and Yukawa's "Japanska Svärd: Järn".
As it is, while 刀 can mean just about any sword, or at least any single edged one, if you're using it like that it'll correspond to the reading tô rather than katana. 剣 may be rather more general as well.
>>35188070
In the context of steel pig iron is an intermediate product and is not used in anything. Perhaps you should read a book instead of relying on literal internet memes to inform you about basic knowledge.
>>35188162
>if you're using it like that it'll correspond to the reading tô rather than katana.
That's not how Japanese works. Tou is the Chinese pronunciation and can only ever be used in compound words. 刀剣 is touken, 刀 is only ever read as katana.
>>35188162
dude,is this your receipt...did you buy a katana?
How much did you spend?
>>35188162
>katana and tachi
It's pure unfiltered autism.
Distinguishing between two identical swords based on which side up they are intended to be worn is ridiculous.
>>35188202
If that's the case then you basically never use katana on its own for a sword in general then, unless as I said you go extremely colloquial. Ken seems to be the most common "general sword" word in my experience here. Those in Japan who study swords certainly seem to have a consensus on katana being far more specific.
>>35188211
Not mine, and not a receipt, but papers where some NTHK-appointed expert on the subject has determined what a specific sword most likely is. Who made it, when it was made, that kind of thing.
>>35188070
You're allowed to have a wrong opinion, I'm just telling you where the historical meaning of pig iron originated from.
I can also call the Abrams the Lardmobile and the T-34 the Vatnik orbital turret launcher but that won't make those terms correct.
>>35188120
>those potato fingers
>>35188285
>MFW I can't unsee it.
You fucking bastard, you. Have an HD wallpaper from the same series.
>>35188195
>he doesn't know about the great leap forward
*smug_anime_girl.png
>>35186782
>>35186765
>>35186711
>>35186681
>>35186629
Stop samefagging you dumb nigger
>>35187801
I seem to recall he got his shit pushed in by this dude wielding a cut down oar.
>>35188276
oh,so Joey just wanted his sword identified.
bumperango
>>35186629
>Why didn't everyone use super long katana?
>>35186629
Because why not just carry a fucking spear at that point?
>>35186629
They did during warfare; they mounted blades on very long sticks. The association of samurai with the sword came during the Tokugawa era when sword-carrying become restricted by law to particular classes.
>>35186629
>Why didn't everyone use super long katana?
Because you need to have the right fedora and unbending the long ones on the back of your knee in the midst of battle takes too long
>>35186629
They did, several schools still feature the use of extra long swords, but the thing is that just like in Europe, large two-handed swords are quite a niche weapon, not that useful in war when you have naginata and nagamaki around and not really useful for anything else than showing off or experimenting different styles of fencing. Plus they are a pain to forge and not worth the job unless you want to show how good a swordsmith you are.
Very early schools like Kage-ryu or Chujo-ryu used them to demonstrate different stuff but that's mostly about it.
And here's bully no tachi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWtEBW8cmAo
>>35192543
>Dat sayabiki.
>>35187801
didn't he get rekt?
>>35188230
Tachi are longer, and more visibly curved.
>>35186835
Weren't they also experts with mounted combat?
>>35188070
Pig iron had a bad name because it is "useless" iron. It is brittle and can't be used for knifes, swords, axes etc. Eventually it was stared to used in casted products (cannons, rails, bells) but essentially it remained second tier metal.
Oh and pig iron initially was a simply a waste. As bloomeries became larger and more closer to teh blast furnaces temperatures rose and bloomeries started to produce pig iron by accident and there were no use for that "pig iron".
>>35186629
It didn't save his ass, why would they?
>>35193469
The few who could afford a warhorse yeah probably...
>>35186835
Greatswords are better than polearms to be honest.
>>35194755
It really depends since a greatsword can't do what some polearms do. You can replace pikes by greatswords for instance, you can mass greatswords like you can halberds or long spears.
What is important is combined arms, not "x is better than y desu".
>>35194791
Pikes break upon impact by cavalry and it needs to be formed closely together to withstand a charge. Greatswords need to be in loose formation against a cavalry charge due to the nature of swinging it. Greatsword formations are supperior to pike or polearm formations against cavalry. Actually it is the reason why horses stopped being used in charges in the 16th century. Every horsemen charges an individual warrior and each warrior has a chance to evade the lance or to tank the horse to the floor.
The reason why pikes were brought back in a century was because of the rising importance of the ranged. Horsemen can pass through a greatsword formation since it is loose and get to the people behind it.
Well point is, as long as you have a good enough armor, greatswords are usually better at attacking or defending unless you have to protect completely what is behind the greatswords from horsemen and by that i mean people with guns, not armored archers.
Greatswords make for better units overall but i do agree there is value in combined arms.
>>35195065
*dodge the tip, step up, and slash
*nothing personal
>>35194956
Well then how come pretty much everyone in 16th Europe used mostly pikes en masse and not greatsword...?
Greatsword may be better in some sort of mathematical manner, but this logic doesn't mean much in the actual field.
>>35195153
>*dodge the tip, step up, and slash
But what if he makes it personal, dodge the slash, charge up and horsecheck you?
If dodging the lance of a charging horseman was as easy as talking about it, no one would have bothered to saddle up.
Because life isn't a fucking cartoon
>>35188106
>insulting KM
Watch if fella. KM and Oppenheimer are the only good tripfags on /k/. KM is also the good Swede on 4chan.
>>35194956
>>35195242
>>35195308
They used them while defending guns. If you want actual infantry shock you'll use greatswords. The truth is that its more expensive to make greatswordsmen than it is to make pikemen, and this is the reason why mercenaries used them since they would be used for attacking far more often than the normal conscripted and so they needed an edge and reason to exist as a superior option to just raising more men.
I know the spanish especially used pikes, but that was because they mixed gunmen with pikemen.
>>35192076
You can't teleport behind someone with a spear, that would just make you look foolish and someone may take that personal.
>>35195261
It is because most soldiers were peasant with week of training behind ears, they didn't have enough skill to dodge knight's lance.
>>35195318
>this is the reason why mercenaries used them
Swiss mercenaries were famous for their use of the halberds, pikes and other polearms so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Greatswords were also used to protect guns and banners and the thing is they were used a lot less. They are harder to train, harder to make, harder to find a use. Just because it's supposedly a better weapon doesn't make it a better idea on a battlefield. IRL, you don't just equip your troops with the weapon with the best stats, you equip them with what actually works and having a couple of dudes going macho out of formation with enlarged weapons isn't exactly such a big hit as it happens. It did happens, but most of the time, conservative use of guns, pikes and cavalry was a far more interesting suggestion than just greatswords.
It's the exact same reason why while naginata were popular in Japn in the early feudal era because they were macho and cool to use on your own, once the number of troops skyrocketed, everyone went back to bows and pikes.