Winning as France in WW2

>>35163992
Launch an offensive when they invade Czechoslovakia.
Alternatively, pull a coup and prevent leftard takeover of 1936 that screwed military preparation big time.

>>35163992
>begin remilitarization after the Rhineland crisis
>force Belgium to finish their part of the maginot line
>get rid of the the sa18 cannon
>once the war starts, commit to the Saarland offensive
>...
>profit

>>35163992
Intimidation tactics. Be the french third reich.
>invade Belgium
>invade the Netherlands
>start long range artillery bombardments from the Maginot Line
>start amassing an invading force on the Arden forrest
>tell the Spaniards not to fuck with me
>engage in some angry frog staring at Switzerland
>get the British to help or else

We're doing this shit in reverse, bitch ass Hitler.

Reject the militarization of the Rhineland. Always works in HOI4.

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>>35163992
>Put 3-man turrets on Somua S35 and Char B1
>Equip every tank with a radio
>Build more fighter-bombers
>Concentrate tanks in their own units
>Guard the Ardennes
>Tell the Brits and Poles to do the same.

There you have it. Either wait until the German invasion and defeat it with your numerical and economic superiority (that you have thanks to the UK), or launch an invasion when Germany invades Poland.

>>35163992
Stage coup. Ally with Germany and destroy Communist Russia once and for all. Take Belgium and Holland as compensation.

>>35164138
Looking at history, it seems the best defence Belgium could ask for is for the French to fortify the shit out of their border.

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Put a bunch of these in the Ardennes.

>>35164145
This. No war in Western Europe and many problems averted for the rest of the 20th century.

>>35164145
This. Unite and crush the communists

I'd also go full Franco and purge all communists and communist sympathizers from France

>>35164172
As prominent as the tanks ended up being in propaganda, the Germans didn't many of them at the time. Splurge more on anti personnel mines.

Stop the LON members from offering loans to Germany.
Invest defense budget in air and mechanized artillery, modernize roadway system.
Build static defenses around capital instead of in a worthless line across part of the border.
Anti-tank mines, railguns. German defenses were weak enough to start an effective air campaign in a joint effort with England and cripple arms manufacturing and mobility well ahead of the Belgian invasion. Without the economic bubble and unpaid loans war development would have stagnated. Then when they got uppity, bomb the shit out of their western defenses and send the fuckhuge Berlin Gun down the tracks for some poetic justice.

>>35164184
I should have included that but I guess that goes under the coup part. The world would be a better place.

>>35164145
>Wherever i go i must also kill communists
I like it.

>>35164145
This. Then stab them in the back at the earliest opportunity.

>>35164475
No, the whole point of allying with them is to remove the true enemy of Europe and to avoid war in the west. Lesser of two evils and all that.

>>35164503
>Implying facism and communism are not both equally the enemy of Europe

>>35164651
Fascism is a lesser enemy than communism.

>>35164184
So kill like half your populace?

>>35164660
Yep

>>35164778
Sounds good.

>>35164503
>remove the true enemy of Europe
We can do that together, but fuck Prussia, n3v4r 5get 1871.

Likely not enough time, but here I go.
Radios in the tanks. Every fucking tank. Vox or Morse, doesn't matter.
Standardize on 47mm main gun.
Build as many B1s as possible. Fast track B1ter, insist on two man turret if it can be shoehorned in at all.
Demand cruiser-type medium tanks to be developed.
Increase aircraft production significantly. Existing types will do.
The brass is the hardest part to fix. Leave them to their devices, while forming rapid response brigades focused on rapid cross-country movement, interception of enemy advances, exploitation of exposed flanks, and rapid assaults. Use these to respond to German salients, especially when they run aground against stubborn B1 units. Exploit individual defensive successes heavily.

>>35164856
Nothing about forcing the Belgian faggots finish the Maginot?

>>35163992
Expand maginot line
Buy Hurricanes from the Brits
Expand research on AT weapons
Increase production of sub guns

>>35164866
You ask too much.

>>35164895
Just pull the Belgian president, prime minister, queen whatever the fuck those irrelevant little shits have aside and tell it directly that if they're not going to accept the finishing of that defensive line against the krauts, the worthless little piece of land is going to turn into a French colony, Belgian Congo style.

>>35163992
>purge the commies, obviously
>get some propaganda shit going to psych the French people up to lose another generation of young men
>invade all of westen europe
>pack lots of jackets and invade the soviets
>with no other threats in europe, invade england
>all of africa now belongs to france now, gimmie diamonds
>give the US some angry looks but never commit to anything

Vive la françe!

>>35164052
>get the British to help or else
That's the part where you fuck up. The Empire would be itching to shut down anyone expanding in Europe at this point anyway, and you go threatening them.

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>>35164967
>with no other threats in europe, invade england
Is that you Napoleon?

>>35163992
Tell Germany you are willing to fight the soviet union with them and give a special status to Alsace Loraine.

>No reason to invade
>USSR gone

>>35165140
>give a special status to Alsace Loraine.
Lay off the schnapps Hans.

>>35164967
>psych the French people up to lose another generation of young men

But Jacques, you already did that in Step 1.

>>35163992
I would extend the maginot line to the northern coast, I would also place more impetus on adopting the semi-automatic rifle they were working on to hopefully get it into service before the invasion,

>>35163992
>How do you improve them to stop France from falling in WW2,
Mobilize in and attack in 1938.

>>35165285
>focus on static defences and small arms
Sounds like a recipe for success.

>>35163992
Don't plan on fighting in belgium and try to encircle and cutoff the germans as they enter into northern france.

>steal all of defence budget
>defect to America

>>35165368
Pin it all on an Alsatian Jew, and you might just get away with it.

>>35165303

This. Get Churchill and the brits in on it too.

>>35164138
What was the Great Depression?

A lot of people are ignoring economic and social realities. With millions of dead just a short time ago, France did not want to repeat that.

>>35165467
>Get Churchill and the brits in on it too.
This is how you fail to backstabbing anglo. What basically happen, war against Germany was postponed in the infinite meddling. France had enough strength to destroy Germany alone in 1938 but France had to much of WWI PTSD.

>>35163992
I understand your parameters OP but I think sending a wave of assassins after Hitler would have kept the war from happening. So, training military assassins to kill Hitler is my answer.

>>35164651
Fascism was only bad for europe in the sense that the ensuing conflicts proved disastrous to the region. Peacetime fascism made the countries flourish (albeit being built on rather shaky foundations) whereas the opposite is true for communist countries.

As long as you can avoid the conflict in western europe, you're golden pretty much. However, this is difficult due to the french-german rivalism and poor relations, as well as a manipulative britain.

>>35163992
Surrender.

>>35164145
Alternatively:
Enact bolshevik revolution
Ally with Russia
Preemptively spit-roast les allemandes with Uncle Joe, finishing the job that got paused back in 1918

>>35164052
>invade Belgium
>invade the Netherlands
>get the British to help or else
The British would absolutely not help after that, jfc
>>35164052
>start long range artillery bombardments from the Maginot Line
>start long range artillery bombardments from the Maginot Line
That worked so well in WWI, right?
What a retarded fucking post

>>35163992
>1930
Already too late by the, the socialist/communist cancer had spread too much amongst the population. The defeat was before all political, when traitors who collaborate with the ennemy and plan to surrender before the fight even started lead your nation, you can't possibly expect to win, regardless of weapons or tactics. Not that there weren't failures regarding those as well.

>>35163992
Defend the Ardennes line. Bam.

>>35164063
>HOI4
pls go and stay go or play superior HOI 3

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Become fascist and de-kiked and join Germany and Italy in making Europe great again.

Literally just send some bombers over the Ardennes when it was packed with an entire army lined up in a double file end to end.

>Replace the Adrian helmet with something like the M56 stahlhelm
>Rush production on a new semi-auto, or at least the MAS 36, and finally ditch the fucking Lebel, even from stores.
>Insist on having radios in every tank and with every infantry section ideally, platoon in practice
>Better infantry tanks
>Replace 8mm in everything that's not a machinegun
>Adopt 9x19, and a simple, easy to produce second gen SMG
>Allow lower ranked troops to request artillery support
Defend the norther border with Belgium and the Ardennes as best as we can, and hope for the best.

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>>35168129
>"Bomb the Ardennes, you say? That's a forest, isn't it? And forests are made of wood, aren't they..."

remove the maginot line to rid the french of a defeatist mentality, upgrade the control system for the airforce, and pull as much manpower/aircraft out of the african colonies as possible

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>>35163992
Expel the Jews, Install Prince Napoléon to make Napoléon VI King, and join the Axis.

>>35163992
accept a socialist government during the upheavals post WWI, ally with the USSR and hit weak early war Germany from two sides when they begin the invasion of Poland

>>35163992
Scrap mass conscription and the Maginot line BS. France's biggest problem was that when the war got going they had a huge, but barely trained and armed army of conscripts who didn't want to fight as well as a bunch of white elephant border forts that could be flanked. If they'd had a smaller, but professional and mobile army they could have held back or even beaten the Germans.

>>35163992

Adopt De Gaulle's plan for a mechanised army that he proposes around 1934. The handful of small Tank offensives that De Gaulle oversaw towards the end of the Battle of France showed promise. You would need to ignore the fact that the French parliament exists for that to have happened though. The main priority would be to somehow avoid the Nazi-Soivet pact as the Franco-Russian alliance was central to French security (in regards to Germany at least) from 1871-1939. But, nobody ever expected the Nazi-Soviet pact so fuck knows how you'd stop it

>>35168062
This

Concentrate tanks instead of dispersing them with infantry.huge problem with awol soldiers. Start executing the cowards and punish the lazy.

>>35168370
That's literally what France was trying to do before the invasion started
Semi auto battle rifles, platoon radios, better SMGs, and 2 LMGs per squad were all in various stages of implementation before the armistice was signed

>>35164014
France was still recovering from ww1. Stuff like fucked up birth rates and to add on commies

>>35169585
The big reason France decided to stay with 2 and 3 man tanks was that they just didn't have the manpower to waste in the 1920s and 30s

>>35164658
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.
But many people thought like you before WWII.

>>35169539
>Concentrate tanks instead of dispersing them with infantry
Please stop with this retarded meme. The French concentrated their tanks, end of story.
How the fuck would tanks even work distributed to infantry. Infantry formations wouldn't have the support systems in place for tanks.

>>35169664
You dumb shit don't ever post again or I'll end you.

>>35169691
*grabs you by the throat*
back the fuck off???

But seriously, it's true. By the time the Char D1 and the second generation of French tanks came around, France was hurting in terms of spending money and available recruits. Keeping one man turrets was seen as cost effective as they could interchange them between tank models, and it took less time and money to train seperate loaders and gunners

Everyone saying join the Nazis forgetting that they'd fall to the Americans anyway

Listen to De Gaulle
Adopt a semi-auto instead of the MAS 36 (literally create the MAS 49 instead)
Fortifications near main cities, not only on the border (maybe not enough time)
Attack when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia

>>35168711
>"How to have France win WW2"
>make them get nuked by the United States

What did he mean by this?

>>35169901
>Adopt a semi-auto instead of the MAS 36 (literally create the MAS 49 instead)
The MAS 49 was already in service by the time of the Battle of France, plus they still had large stores of RSC rifles.
France and the US were the pioneers of semi auto battle rifles

>>35170019
Yes, but don't adopt a new bolt-action, directly adopt a self-loader.

Instead of outright attacking Germany to appeal to the communists and youth. Declare war, Put larger concentrations of soldiers and defensive anti tank weapons in the North in depth and focus on production of a much better bombing centric airforce.
Would the pressure coming the west eneded the Huns endeavor? Probably not but it would put them in a fiscal grind I dont think they could afford to make

>>35169043
But muh levee en masse

>>35163992
Put a telephone in my military HQ. or at least a fucking telegraph.

They had faggots on motorcycles taking orders to the field from some castle with no electricity.

>>35163992
>How do you improve them to stop France from falling in WW2, using the technology of the time?


By fixing what the actual problem was, which wasn't really that heavily weighed towards technological inferiority: doctrine and the relationship between the military and the civilian intelligence apparatus.

France had a struggling intelligence service. On the civilian side you had some who sort of fetishized Germany and German military industry. On the military side intelligence was seen as worse than being a garbage man so officers did as much as they could to avoid it (IIRC armor was seen as the most prestigious branch for officers) and the rest of the military treated them like red headed step children.

So when warnings of German plans and capabilities came they were ignored.

The French doctrine at the time allowed for little flexibility in command due to the distance between the front and commanders. So by the time French command learned of the push through Sedan, which was weakly defended due to the assumption that the Germans would push through Ardennes, the Germans had taken away their operational depth.

>>35163992
Everyone is overthinking this. All you need to do is send one bomber flight over the ardennes while the German tanks where in a traffic jam. The Germans made a huge gamble and it worked that one time.

>>35169043
You have zero clue what the Maginot Line was designed for. The entire point of the line is to have a more mobile army. You had 80,000 men manning the border with Germany....with 2 million in reserve. Any attack made is easily counter attacked because going through the tough defenses will take a long time; long enough for reserves to come up. In May of 1940 the Maginot Line exactly how it was designed!

And FYI, the Maginot line couldn't easily be flanked as you claimed....if the Belgians decided to build their fortifications that was to link up with theirs. Belgium decides to pussy out and appease Germany instead of help their ally.

>>35165552
This is what /Pol/acks genuinely believe. Unrestrained executive power has a 99% chance of descending into inefficient cronyism, which kills economic growth deader than anything else. Fascism makes it so that leaders MUST create enemies: if they can't find external ones that means the citizens from whatever group has the worst PR. This also stymies economic development, and bakes paranoia into the fabric of society.

To answer OP's question, the right answer is to respond immediately when the Reich occupies the Sudetenland, the Nazis would have backed off for sure. Then, relax the retarded punitive measures of Versailles and prepare to let the fascists and communists fuck each other. Tech-wise, medium tanks organised into battalions and tell Belgium to finish their bit of wall or you will finish it yourself, leaving them on the other side.

>>35163992
Si non potes beat eis adiungere ea
Make way for the Franco-German Reich

>>35170123
>blob infantry and guns behind the maginot line
That's literally what happened and caused the phoney war.
France's only real option to avoid buttraep is to wait for their logistics to unfuck themselves and then try to seize the initiative and push into Germany while they were distracted with Poland.
This almost worked during the Saar Offensive of 1939, but it was such a bloated clusterfuck that the French completely abandoned the idea

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>>35168510

>>35170959
He does mention the difference of air support which I think wouldve completely changed how the maginot and other defensive positions would faired

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>>35163992

>send recruiters to Louisiana
>find as many of "the lowest scum of the lower Mississippi...adventurous wharf rats, thieves, and outcasts...and bad characters generally" as possible
>recruit them into the Foreign Legion
>give them their own regiment, the Louisiana Tigers
>offer them a nine month pregnant Anne Frank to have orgies with as payment
>watch them violently tear apart Waffen-SS soldiers with their bare hands
>...
>profit

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>>35169788
Yes, that is clearly why France was the only nation in the world to operate tanks with a crew in the double-digits post WWI and was intending to design more tanks which required bigger crews prior to their capture.

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>>35164145
>stage coup and ally with Germany
France hated the Germans a lot back then for 1871 and WW1 so good luck convincing all of the country to do that

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>>35165502
>but France had to much of WWI PTSD
Just look at Verdun's casualties

>>35166959
Is it just me, or has HoI given up any pretense at being a simulation of WWII, and turned into a very slow RTS?

>>35172674
What is the fairly seamless surrender and the Vichy Government?

>>35170571
Your first paragraph is spot on, however intake issue with the 'punitive measures if the Versailles great' part.
They weren't punitive, they were entirely justified. You don't get to effectively start and singlehandedly continue a war that decimated another country, whilst your homeland is relatively unscathed, without any punishment once you've lost.

>>35172703
Indirect Artillery was a mistake

>>35172772
>What is the resistance and free France
We are talking about 1938 here btw

>>35172703
>542,000
Geez

>>35169884
*to USSR

During the campaign in France G*rm generals were considering the bold maneuver warfare still too risky, only as the initiative of such generals as Guderian, Manstein and Rommel made apparent that style of warfare. If France was to join Acis without war, Manstein's ideas of what Allies called "Blitzkrieg" would not come to fruition by the Soviet campaign. Additionally, there would be less experienced commanders.

So, either you would have an early war in 1940, when USSR didn't yet start the rearmament campaign, so USSR would have a slightly relieved logistics situation, lesser C3 problems in tank units (Mechanized Corps reorganization started in summer 1940 as a result of G*rman performance in French campaign), slower tempo of operations, caused by indecisiveness of G*rm (and French in case of their participation) generals, either you strike at historical time, in 1941 where you'll have still less experienced army, while Soviets have a more stable army (no need to change because no French campaign), or, at last, you strike later, in 1942+, which will see the reformed, stronger Red Army with enough officers to cover up most of posts, thus less command confusion, rearmed to T-34 and KVs, etc.

There is literally no chance Germany would've won without lessons of French campaign. And even then, it's not 100%, as Soviets would be preparing as well.

>>35163992
>march into the rhineland en force

There you go, WWII at least stalled perpetually since Hitler even admitted marching into the Rhineland was "the greatest gamble" of his career.

>>35163992

Invade Poland.
Gas the Jews.
Nazi Party loses its reason for existence. Hitler never comes to power because all of his ideas have already been done by France, and he's a suspected Francophile.

>>35171055
two bombs weren't enough

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>>35168711
>Napoléon VI
>King

>>35163992
Force adoption of only 1 light/infantry support tank instead of 3 for starters(assuming I can't influence the ordnance to change them from 2-man tanks into something useful). Get the fucking politicians to fund the military properly so I can mobilize before shit happens, with new rifles, artillery and tanks straight out of factory. Historically French would be ready for war in like 1942 or something.

>>35166959
I prefer that one actually, but because then my answer doesn't really work. I can't build enough threat from Germany (or enough National Unity for that matter) to prevent a remilitarization of the Rhineland in 3. So I usually just extend the Maginot Line and naval invade through Denmark by 41.

>>35163992
Attack and conquer Germany when they remilitarize the Rhineland and are vastly inferior to France in military might.

>>35170019
FYI Ian just posted a video on the RSC. Sleek gun.

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>>35170019
>The MAS 49 was already in service by the time of the Battle of France
No, fourty nine. Stands for... you guessed it, 1949.

The semi auto in very very little limited service during the battle of France (if at all) was the MAS 40. Derivative of the MAS 38 modifié 39 or S.E.MAS 38/39. Two versions were planed : one with an internal magazine of 5 rounds, and another with a removable FM24/29 20 rounds magazine.

I've read that up to 300 were built before capitulation, but I was never able to get a solid proof of it.

During the war the MAS used to build german weapons (most notably MP40s) but some french prototypes from before the defeat were being kept. The resistance stole around fifty Mas 40 protoypes rifles, and in the autumn of 1944 the MAS has to ask the resistance to give them back with the promise of receiving a brand new MAS 36 for every MAS 40. Some of these fighters (mainly commies) accepted, others didn't. Which explains why some of these rifles may still be around there somewhere in France.

There are some in the US too, since the Mas 40 served as a basis for the Mas 44 which was manufactured from 1945. Around 7000 rifles were built including 6200 Mas 44A which were very close to the Mas 49 and stood in service with the french navy until the 80's.

Pic related with omelette translation included.

Many more infos on these rifles here : http://www.virdea.net/french/mas-auto.html

>>35163992
Actually help Boland like you promised.

>>35163992
You don't need to improve French gear, it was good enough for the job anyway.

Remilitarise quickly and actually intervene to help Poland instead of simply promising to.

>>35175119
But France did help Poland anon. In fact France honored all of its agreements with Poland.
Poland on the other hand was dumb enough to eat some clay in Czechoslovakia like the germans did.
But France was also allied with Czechoslovakia and even supplied Maginot patents and plans for their forts.
Now imagine you're France back then. One of your allies (Poland) attacks another one of your allies (czechoslovakia) while having a bromance with a country that you suspect is going to wage war on you at some point (Germany).
What do you do ?
protip : calling the cops won't work.

>>35171055
Two bombs weren't enough

>add beret and striped tee shirt to standard uniform
>replace long arm with baguette
>add string of onions in place of grenades
>replace marching with bicycle
>train all infantry in the art of being ignorant beyond belief
>invest heavily in anti tank weapons and aircraft
>change national flag to a pure white one
>go full offence, fight brutally
>never agree to surrender at all
>create a world of all new kinds of memes
>bomb Greece for a laugh
>replace money with cheese
>build worlds largest bomb
>never build aircraft to carry it
>order navy to attack China
>build massive baguette factory
>bake massive baguette to use a bridge to England
>deliver cheese without fear of uboat attack
>use stale baguette as apfsds rounds
>use stale cheese as chemical weapon
>grow moustache

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>>35175814
I giggled, here's your (you) anon.
However
>train all infantry in the art of being ignorant beyond belief
That would require to send them train in the US. Impractical.

>>35171055
Two bombs weren't enough

Literally just attack Germany with UK while they were invading Poland.
Bam ! : 50 millions deaths avoided.

>>35178273
This

>>35175357
I didn't know Poland snagged some Czech clay alongside Germany

>>35172280
Germany recruited people who immigrated to the US way before the war, I wonder if France actually could have

>>35172951
A thought out response, color me surprised

>>35178843
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Czechoslovak_border_conflicts#Annexations_by_Poland_in_1938

The poles don't bring this up strangely enough when they cry about "muh Vranze no gib zubord"

>>35163992

>You are not allowed to launch an offensive against Germany until they invade Czechoslovakia.

Before 1938: change the doctrine of the army as much as possible, focus on the DCR and resurrecting the concept of Elàn.

Do not agree to Monaco peace talks, then launch an offensive against Germany as soon hey invade Czechoslovakia, together with Poland and England.

GG no re.

>>35171055
Two bombs were not enough

>>35175111
Well shit, consider me schooled.
Why is it that the french were such large proponents of the battle rifle during WW1, but had largely abandoned the idea by WW2?

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>>35163992
Create the French Regional Alliance Treaty Organization.

>>35179525
How does this work out when Italy was fascist and aligned to Germany?

>>35179824
Forward thinking

>>35179824
Italy hated Germany until he realized France and Britain didn't want him on their team.

>>35163992
contest the remilitarization of the rhineland and invade through belgium

>>35172773
Nah, Versailles was retarded. It placed undue blame on Germany, who were just one of many countries that sniffed too much paint in 1913. They didn't effectively start it, I place more blame on the Austrians and the Serbians. If Germany had been treated more fairly we wouldn't have seen the stormweenies take over most likely, and maybe WW2 could have eradicated Stalinism instead of just fucking with central Europe.

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It's fucking hard.

Your top brass is retarded and your bureaucracy is a world tier quagmire. You're producing multiple different rifles using two different ammo standards, and half your equipment is left over from the last war. You have plenty of modern tanks, but they're ill-suited to the cavalry duty and limited by small crews, lack of radios and FULL FRENCH FUCKTARD doctrine of tank packets for infantry support. Your airforce is outclassed but Britain is being a shitty ally and keeping the RAF at home.

Good luck!

>>35166959
>hoi3
>literally needs 3 dlc to be even remotely playable; and mods to be enjoyable

Darkest Hour (licensed retool of HoI2) it's where its at; if only it had the divisional composition maker structure of hoi3 it'd be the best game ever.

>>35163992
put tropes in the woods

>>35163992
Become fascist in the 30s and provide support for a german invasion of Britain so it never escalates into world war

>>35172709
Paradox Games hit the stock market a bit ago.
Price spikes and dlc policy bit them in the ass hard; alongside criticism for their dumbed down HoI4 with absolutely retarded AI and initially fucked up UI

Basically they became big; and with that comes the taint of having to make your simulator enticing for people who want the bragging rights of playing on veteran; but are more retarded than the worst AI you could possibly code. They self justified their marketing and design/coding issues as "trying to get more people into these kind of games so we can keep enjoying them"

Soon we will be seeing Victoria 3 release; or a new game idea from paradox; and it will be so stupidly shit; we will know the age of paradox making nice and interesting mechanics work with storytelling; AARs; War and geopolitics and fun with Alt-history is over.

>>35179824
Italy was geopolitically inclined against Germany in the years previous to the austrian nazi coup. When Italy saw the growing incapacity of action of democracies; as per fascist doctrine, Italy switched teams to ally with whom they saw as the team most likely to win.

>>35180315
This

>>35179824
Mussolini had supported the Austrian government in putting down the 1934 coup attempt.

>Chancellor Dollfuss was killed in July 1934, during an attempt by Austria's National Socialist Party to topple the regime and proclaim a Nazi government under Ambassador to Rome Anton Rintelen. The assassination of Dollfuss was accompanied by Nazi uprisings in many regions in Austria, resulting in further deaths. In Carinthia, a large contingent of northern German Nazis tried to grab power but were subdued by the loyalist Heimwehr units. The Nazi assassins holding the Federal Chancellery Vienna surrendered after threats to dynamite the building and were executed before the end of July.

>One of the reasons for the failure of the putsch was Italian intervention: Mussolini assembled an army corps of four divisions on the Austrian border and threatened Hitler with a war with Italy in the event of a German invasion of Austria as originally planned, should the coup have been more successful. Support for the Nazi movement in Austria was surpassed only by that in Germany, allegedly amounting to 75% in some areas.

Mussolini later grew disheartened after the realization that neither France nor Britain would back him if war did break out between Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. The perspective in London was adulation at the idea that the two states would mutually destroy one another. The French were equally unsympathetic. Considering their comparative industrial strengths, the terrain and recent military history, Mussolini understood war with Nazi Germany was a fight Italy alone could not win. In any case his son-in-law Ciano, who served as a key diplomat in Vienna, complained that the Austrians were to uppity and were looking down on the new Roman regime. Standing aside, allowing the Anschluss and allying themselves with the immediate threat made sense. With the Anschluss, Nazi Germany made its first territorial acquisition.

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>>35180480
>You have plenty of modern tanks, but they're ill-suited to the cavalry duty and limited by small crews, lack of radios and FULL FRENCH FUCKTARD doctrine of tank packets for infantry support.
Just sell and replace every tank with the SOMUA S35. And accept Poland's request to sell those tanks to them so they could actually be used to fight instead of becoming Beute Panzerkampfwagen.
Guys, saving France might have been be easier that we thought...

>>35163992
Overthrow the civilian government and join the Axis.

>>35163992
">No "I build ARs xD"."

You understand that the gas system used by Gene Stoner existed in common use in France in the 1890's, yes?


So expanding on the Rosignol system, we see a select fire 6.5mm magazine fed rifle in the trenches in 1915. By 1930, we see squeeze bore /Gerlich rifles, meaning every rifle is "armor piercing" and a minor hit is devastating.


I'd expound on potential developments (existant) regarding armor and/or aviation, but they are best kept i the fiction section, because save but a few very well read members, nobody would believe it.

>>35180388
>Serbians
Aquiesed to pretty much all I think Austrian demands that were possible, they much as they could to avoid war, Austria's terms were designed to be unacceptable. Austria only laid down terms that were inevitablely going to be refused because Germany gave them a blank cheque that they'd have their support no matter what.
If Germany hadn't of lent it's support it would have been a local matter, additionally, after a certain point, Austria wasn't in the right but Germany continued.
The great wasn't unfair, it wasn't harsh enough, especially considering the damage Germany had done and that they'd not really suffered any themselves. Their industrial sector was back on too in Europe not long after the war. The fuckers even torpedoed their own economy to try to get out of it.

>>35163992
>You are sent back in time to 1930 and placed in control of the French armed forces. How do you improve them to stop France from falling in WW2, using the technology of the time? No "I build ARs xD".You are not allowed to launch an offensive against Germany until they invade Czechoslovakia.

most French people supported the foreign occupation an Vichy until they thought the allies would win. There is no way that you can defend a nation with a population that craven and treacherous. France is not a nation anyway since at least 1870, it is a language cult run by freemasons.

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>>35163992
Basically they needed to completely rearm their forces. This was the problem with Britain, France and Russia at the beginning of WW2. They had not invested in upgrading their military in the 20s and 30s and paid the price for it in the early years of the war.

To be a substantial fighting force, France needed to:
>Replace any Lebel rifles still in service
They had a higher ammo capacity (8 rounds) but were slow to load as it had to be done a bullet at a time. German K98 rifles were far superior

>Organise tanks into specific groups, not just as infantry support
French generals still believed that tanks were best used as support for infantry. This may have worked in WW1 but not in 1940.

>Invest in the air force
Much of the French air force in 1940 consisted of old biplanes that were torn apart by the Luftwaffe. France needed to focus on manufacturing more MS406s and MB105s which were actually capable of rivaling German aircraft.

>Upgrade Command and control
Supply more field radios, improve communication between HQ and frontlines.

>>35180315
>>35181554

These guys are correct.
France and Uk basically threw down repeated attempts from Italy to align itself with them against Germany.
In 1934 and in 1936 an Italian-German confrontation over Austria was very possible. Even in 1938 after Monaco Italy was still more interested in France and Uk rather than in Germany.

>>35164052
are you going to gas the kikes as well?

>>35180388
>Literally Dindu nuffin

>>35182462
>how to win the war
>/k/id immediately rush to the HIGHEST order of business
>"Just change the rifles lmao then you'll be fine"
Rifles were the least of the problem.

>Much of the French air force in 1940 consisted of old biplanes that were torn apart by the Luftwaffe.
The fuck am I reading.
>I have no idea what happened in the airspace in 1940 or of the composition of the French airforce then
The French airforce did pretty good.
>France needed to focus on manufacturing more MS406
I think you mean D520's. D550's were almost ready for production by june 1940...

>>35163992
I build AKs :)

>>35179477
Semi rifles were expensive to manufacture, not enough 7.5x54 ammo was issued to troops, especially since they also had to feed machine guns and automatic rifles with this relatively new round. There was constant fear the soldiers would spend all of their ammo in a heartbeat.

This fear of having guys going full mad minute without much ammo was already the reason why the french soldiers had such a low requirement of shots fired per day compared to the germans and british during WW1.

With many different calibers in service, keeping a comprehensive record of who shot what and in what quantities was already being a headache. Add low production rates on top of this and you can easily understand why giving away semi pew-pews making men spend their scarce ammo way faster than they did with bolt actions may not have been the brightest idea anyway.

But still, having a 20 rounds semi auto battle rifle would have made a big difference if the rifle was being issued in sufficient numbers. The less stupid option being to make 3 versions out of it, one shorter and lighter serving as a full bore assault carbine, another one with a FM24/29 heavier barrel, a bipod, and a selector allowing semi auto or 3 rounds bursts, and possibly a later sniper version with a scope mount.

>>35182462
>Much of the French air force in 1940 consisted of old biplanes [...] France needed to focus on manufacturing more MS406s and MB105s
what ?
In 1939 there were 1000 MS406s built. It was the most numerous french fighter. It was way WAY inferior to the Dewoitine D-520 though. But Dewoitine was jewish (like Bloch, who would become Dassault) and this made some socialists angry.
But yes, too many types and too many bad design decisions. Not enough good engines and radios.

The french AF in 1940 :

http://france1940.free.fr/adla/ada_may.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_French_Air_Force_during_World_War_II

>>35171055
Two bombs were not enough

>>35182251
>everyone will have magazine fed rifles firing tungsten ammunition
Nope.

>>35182462
>Britain didn't invest in its military
It invested in aviation and naval matters pretty well. Even the army was invested in, you didn't see British troops pissing about with horses, they were fully mechanised, if that's not investment I don't know what is.

>>35182462
>French generals still believed that tanks were best used as support for infantry. This may have worked in WW1 but not in 1940.
Are you retarded? French tanks were organized into armored divisions (tank brigade x motorized brigade), light mechanized divisions (light armor brigade x motorized brigade), and cavalry divisions (light armor brigade x cavalry brigade). They had 4 armored divisions and 6 of the others. The remaining armor were organized into independent tank battalions attached to army command, which operated in groups of two.

>>35182166

S35 couldn't be manufactured that quickly.

>>35181554
Nice, any good books on the interwar period?

>>35171055
Two bombs were not enough!

Build a tank like the T-34 and build planes like the Spitfire with 12.7 mgs

Bumm germany defeated

>>35164175
>>35164184
>>35164410
>>35164503
>>35164298
>>35164778
>>35164658
>>35170571
Gays

>>35165552
Soviet Union became a superpower while nazis lost a war in 4 years..

Extend the maginot line to the French-Belgian border, tell chocolate fags to fuck off if they bitch, start construction of a line as well with Italy and Spain (because fuck Spain), get rid of the shitty blue uniforms and switch to khaki, import a fuck load of Lee-Enfields, build stens and no more magazine fed machine guns, going back to maxims, improve AA defense and the air force with Spitfires, since Germany in the early part of the second world war was mainly using light tanks, no more focus on artillery, anti-tank guns only, let the air force deal with the German artillery. In my mind this might just possibly work.

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>>35172580
The man you're replying to is right, you know.
Steel shortages helped, too.

And 2C tank was a ww1 design.

>>35168129
French bombers weren't top tier, with most modern programs being ready for production for 1941, plus they were getting hammered by the luftwaffe at that point. Still a good idea, tho.

>>35182166
>when your recon car ends up being your best tank of the war

>>35180388
The war took place on french and belgian (main industrial) regions, and the krauts never paid what was agreed at Versailles. They wanted something to blame for the great depression, that's all.

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>>35180388
Are you even aware nazi Germany spent SEVEN TIMES for its rearmament the amount of money that was aked through Versailles treaty ?
SEVEN. FUCKING. TIMES.

But please tell me again how
>"muh Versailles treaty radicalised muh gentle germans who never hurt anyone".
>"don't talk to me or my 2D nazi anime waifu ever again".

Fucking wehraboos...

>>35163992
>using the technology of the time
immediatly partner with Sweden in Air tech in exchange of Guaranteeing them.
Enjoy the amazing dive bombing tech, decent naval advancements and easy access to the baltic sea for any invasion force straight to Berlin later down the line.
I don't think Germany could have pulled off as convincing an armor push if France had the concept of five bombing and CAS as early as 1930s, Not accounting that Naval divebombing activities from Sweden from the Allies would have literally Obliterated the Germany navy in a matter of Months, essentially leading to a blockade of WW1 scale that would have humilated Germany even more.
>yeah but the german would just invade Sweden then
Without Naval superiority for a prolongued period of time and attacking a frozen wasteland is essentially a waste of equipement and i'd doubt they divert equipement from the push to France to Germany.
Also if you want to really keep fucking them hard also make a Diplomatic Switch with Italy once the German Anschluss telling the Italians that Tyrol is in fact theirs if they team up.

>>35169961
>implying the 1940s United States would have dropped the atomic bomb on a white nation

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>>35164052
>engage in some angry frog staring at Switzerland

>>35164165
Not losing Eben-Emael would have been enough.

>>35185824
Are you ok anon? Do you need to read a history book again?

>>35183078
great idea anon! :^)

>>35182251
kill yourself and get out of my thread

>>35182462
There were no Lebels in front line service in 1940. They had all pretty much been replaced in the 1920s. The Berthier was the most common French arm in 1940.

>>35184780
>build a gun that didn't exist until it was already too late
>build a bunch of planes you don't have the tooling or expertise for
>get rid of your LMGs and replace them with heavy as fuck water cooled MMGs
>get rid of your artillery
Are you trying to make France lose even faster than in our timeline

>>35182462
How can a post this unironically made be so wrong?

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>>35184780
>Extend the maginot line to the French-Belgian border, tell chocolate fags to fuck off if they bitch
The reason the Maginot line wasn't on the border with Belgium was because 1.) you don't wall off your allies, 2.) the Maginot line was to meet up with similar Belgian border defenses (that they never built) and most importantly 3.) the water table is too high there. You can't build huge fortifications in a land that you can't dig a meter into the ground without hitting water.

no Maginot Line.

mechanized infantry and armor divisions.

put the navy in northern france instead of north africa.

realize the SEAsian colonies are a lost cause. amicably transition power to the locals. provide defense in exchange for trade considerations.

>>35188293
It's even funnier that his picture is of Belgian troops. Well, reenactors of Belgian soldiers.

>>35164967
>françe
>ç

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>>35175111
>I've read that up to 300 were built before capitulation, but I was never able to get a solid proof of it.
I've heard it was less than a 100.

Apparently one made it out with the Free French so they could take pictures for this magazine.

>During the war the MAS used to build german weapons (most notably MP40s)
They did not make MP40s. They made MAS-38s.

>>35188322
As usual, you don't have a clue for what the Maginot line was for. I explained it better here: >>35170498

You have to understand Germany had over twice the population of France.

>>35188322
>mechanized infantry and armor divisions.
France had more armored divisions than Germany did. Their problem was not lack of armored divisions but how they used them (or didn't use them).

>>35188403
it was a waste of treasure.

I would have just had towed artillery in concealed dug outs. pre sighted in to plaster the most likely approaches. Mine fields to make sure the Germans use those approaches.

when the germans approach. you fire off as much as you can until you need to move. then you get in the truck and tow that gun to the next dug out. repeat.

money not spent on the static defenses would have gone to more tanks, trucks, artillery pieces, and tracked infantry vehicles.

>>35188462
It wasn't a waste of resources. 80,000 men defended the entire border with Germany. To have a full on mechanized force would cost a hell of a lot more in both money and manpower that France did not have. And with the Maginot line it creates time to pull in reserves for a counter attack, which is exactly how things worked in May of 1940.

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>>35188389
Should have modele 41 helmet, as well as modele 41 AT grenades.

>>35170498
Aside from having a mobile army, the maginot line also served to protect the main metallurgical industries of France, that were sitting right behind the border. If the germans advanced on that front, France wouldn't be able tp produce steel, tanks and planes at any decent output anymore, which can be problematic in a war.

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>>35183927
I've read Mussolini's Italy, which gives decent coverage of its main subject.

>an Anschluss, a fusion of Germany with the post-war rump state of Austria, must be avoided. Such a union would return the full power of Germandom to the Brenner frontier and at once offer more direct and inviting sanctuary to any German-speakers in the province of Bolzano who dreamed of going home to the Reich. As Dino Grandi, then Under-Secetary for Foreign Affairs, told his diplomatic staff in 1927, Italy could never willingly accept an Anschluss and, he added with the habitual realism of Fascist and Italian diplomacy, borders must be defend with soldiers and guns, not treaties. This, he maintained, was a policy decision from such Italy 'would not retreat even a millimetre', although four years later with Nazism on the rise he thought more pessimistically that Italy's credible task was to delay the union of the 'Germanic race' as long as practicable.

>Throughout 1936-7 there were increasing signs that Italy was abandoning its objections to an Anschluss. Italians began to point out that, after all, the Austrians did not like them. In February 1937 the crowd in Vienna booed the Italian national team and then pelted its players with rubbish and empty bottles when they arrived for a football match. The vain Ciano let it be known that his last visit to Austria had been received coldly; those attending diplomatic banquets did not burst into the sort of spontaneous applause he believed his due. People like that, were not worth defending.
>In March 1938 the Nazis completed the job they had botched in 1934 and occupied Austria (to the apparent delight of all but the local Jews and Marxists). The Anschluss was achieved. Despite some frowns in the elite and his own scarcely veiled glumness at the news, Mussolini had to accept the arrival of Germanic armies on the Brenner frontier, which, with surprising care, his regime busily fortified in the months that followed.

>>35163992

The Germans were far behind France in regards to military size, armor in particular. During the Gulf War, the 7th armored wiped the floor with the Iraqi armor, but claimed if they were using the Iraqi tanks, and the Iraqis theirs, they still would have won.

The German military was so well trained, and they had the best military minds calling the shots. The French simply did not want a war, their leaders from squad level to that bum general they had in charge were corrupt and complacent, and the way they organized their armor (spreading it out among infantry divisions for "support") was retarded, not to mention their outdated armor tactics and lack of radios.

For things to have gone different, France would have required someone with influence making the right decisions and rallying her fighting spirit. They could have perhaps launched a limited offensive, mostly via strategic bombing when Hitler invaded Poland, and with the hell of the BEF.

Really if you simplify the whole scenario down to two boxers, one was hungry and the other didn't want to be a boxer. At the end of the day a country/military is made up of people, and the spirit and attitudes commonly held among the population is essential. Germany was so unified and had a clear directive.

>>35164052
life isn't hearts of iron 2

>>35163992
>coup France & rule France like a Roman God
>militarize big time
>badda bing badda boom suck my Cock Hitler
>Hitler sucks my big Nazi Cock

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>>35191698

>>35190778
>spirits and attitude at the squad level
Yeah no.

>>35164651
Fascism is FAR better than communism.

>>35191826

Nazi Germany is a prime example.

>>35163992
How about not declaring war on Germany. Winner winner escargot dinner.

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>>35192329
Then Germany shouldn't have invaded Poland

>>35192339
The question was how to win the war. The answer is not to declare war. France had no reason to fight for Poland. Poland was sacked by the Russians and Germans mutually. France had no reason to fight against the Soviets either.
If I were a French politician than I would have advised the UK to rearmistic with Germany so that another world war didn't start.

>>35192353
They warned Germany not to but they did it anyway

>>35192257
that looks oddly like what the french and belgians did in 1923 quite illegally.

>>35192374
so? point is that if you don't start problems with others and get into their buisness on their side of the world millions of your people might survive a massive fucking war. as a supposed democratic republic french politicians loyalties should be with their citizens well being and not some grubby phony polack nation.

>>35192382
>annexing the territory of a defeated enemy
>illegal

>>35163992
France was indelibly scarred after World War One, and the scars were deeper than any one dictator could possibly remove. You could issue orders from above, but getting your subordinates to obey any sweeping reforms would probably fail.

Your best bet would be selective meddling in tank development, deployment, and doctrine. If the French had had modern and effective tanks and tank doctrine their odds of winning would have been greatly improved.

>>35188389
>Apparently one made it out with the Free French so they could take pictures for this magazine.
The magazine in question is a post-war uchronic paper. The title says it all :
>"THE PICTURE"
>"the weekly [newspaper] that could have been published on june 15 1941"

It's uchronic, not historic. And based on the real WW1 journal "L'image de la guerre", "the picture of war".

more info here
http://www.kaskapointe.fr/pages/L_ImagedelaGuerre.htm

So there are lots of chances the rifle here may be a MAS 44 which looks pretty much the same as the MAS 40.

>They did not make MP40s. They made MAS-38s.
Do you have any reliable information about this ? I got many contradictory statements on this, including from people who had relatives working there during the occupation of France.

>>35163992
>build more AT guns
>invest in dive bombing more by cooperating more with naval powers like Swedes and Brits
>Also use the leverage in intel and relations to realize AT mines that the finns used BTFO tanks like nothing else.
>Proceed to mine the shit out of defenses in 1939
>Ghost division actually dissappear for good when they stumble into AT or fall into a Land mine field without communication with command
>slap radios in tanks and actually use infantry to do the spotting for the tanks since spotting in a 1 man turret tank is pain and suffering
Essentially biggets problem with France was that they were getting PTSD from Verdun REAL BAD even inside military command so they thought they could make Forts and Fortification still viable against anything since when they thought mass artillery would destroy their fort in 1916 they just tried real hard to not die from that and actually suceeded.
WW2 was essentially the same thing but this time Germany not letting France the time to adapt.
If they can foil the inital phase of the push through Belgium and the Ardenne, no amount of Mobility warfare memes will save the German from the heavily industrialize, high infrastructure, high population and Crazy complete mobilization that France would have become.
Essentially France's only chance since it has WW1 PTSD is to actually try to repeat the suceess they had in WW1 and for it to actually work they need to completely negate the Enemy's mobility again.
Germany is an object that push with Tremendous Force and therefore to stop it France has to be more than a brick wall since Brick walls now either get Smashed or simply bypassed. Proactive defense like In Verdun is needed liberal use of Infantry AT tactics with mines, smoke, Molotov or even fucking melee and grenades is necessary.
Tanks main objectives should be to limit the Enemy's armor movement into predictable easily mined or bombed area.
Modern Knowledge of warfare in China or the USSR would have helped them.

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>>35192619
With properly outfitted tanks, could the French cut off German armor from its ability to resupply?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foiim649Wh0
de Gaulle's flank attack happens around 44min

>>35192735
No which is not what i'm really asking.
They're in no way able to actually succeed offensively enough to actually attack the supply line, their mobility is trash.
The real startegy is to stop the advance enough for Infantry to swarm the Highly mobile offensive elite kampgruppe of the Germans.
B1 tanks, high quantities of AT, Infantry makeshift AT, divebombing attacks and Artillery attacks all have the dinstinct purpose in this scenario not to make a push to encircle the enemy but to immobilize them.
The key for France isn't to emulate the mobility of the German to play a game of whoflankswho, Their whole Nationalistic ideas are based around the Levée en Masse which in term led them to long and Drawn out conflict where they'd be able to keep operating for longer than enemy, likewise from WW1 they heavily researched into means of static defense.
There is no real way they'd would have been able to muster enough Offensive mobility both in the composition of their army or Doctrine without sacrificing everything they worked for.
The only real path for them would be Elastic defense with local strong points in hopes of delaying the enemy long enough for reinforcing infantry to do the heavy lifting and seize the logistics of the enemy or destroy their costly tanks with mere infantry , Were the Germans stupid enough to boldly press on instead of pulling out after meeting too significant a resistance from the Strong points encountered in their path.
Whilst this doctrine failed for France it is mostly because they didn't make any effort to adopt it, Partisant of mobile warfare in France were too focused on Offense and Partisants of Defense to focused on the static aspect of it.
The end result was AT guns were mostly situated inside concrete 20km away from the frontline instead of inside a mobile platform or in front of a Panzer III.

If i may Pontificate further, I could see some highly cheeky breeki shit happening if such an approach were to be used.
>Be B2 Tank Gunner
>Communicate on newly installed radio
>Some Infantry spotted a few Tanks moving not that far away
>End up encountering them
>Just shoot at their tracks
>Call Artillery on their Position with the Radio
>And just leave without dying because the B2's armor is too high to even be pierced
>After generous Artillery attack, Infantry swarm the area and obliterate the German Infantry that was suppsed to cover the tanks advance.
Step 1 to stopping Germany's push is Immobilizing the Tank, this can be done through very offensive actions that require high mobility and shock on the forces guarding the supply lines or simply by immobilizing the Tank directly, removing the likely result that as soon as the tank would have heard the supply line was cut on the radio they'd just have retreated closer to their lines or pushed more slowly.
Step 2 to Stopping Germany was Destroying the tank, which really if it's immobile is just as hard as attacking any sort of fortification and turn out if you don't have a tranch system around it with fuckload of infantry guarding it, it's pretty easy.
Step 3 is to enjoy an almost tank free war where your tank doctrine was centered on supporting infantry and the enemy's was centered on destroying other tanks and Overwhelming you through sheer speed and weight, after being immobilized and destroyed their weight and speed is null but turn out most of France's tanks wouldn't have been heavily used to engage tanks in the first place so chances are they'd lose far less using this approach instead and have far more to suppport their Mass Infantry charge back to Germany.

At this point i'm not sure if Trench warfare would have resurfaced or not though.

Send a division or two to Ardennes.

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>rush the r&d and production of some high velocity serious AT gun.

>Design the lightest/fastest/all terrain chasis to hold the gun

>place these in company sized formations of men who are trained to be bold and aggressive as fuck at engaging and killing enemy armor. Pay them in fucking prostitutes and drugs for tank kills for all I care.

The gun could be inaccurate, unreliable, and the gun carrier flimsy as shit, but as long a it can seriously fuck up armor when it works combined with serious motivation on the part of the crews, it could blunt german armor on the in running engagements and ambushes.

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>>35193014
How could this seriously not work ?

>>35168370
>Insist on having radios in every tank and with every infantry section ideally, platoon in practice
Not even in the 80's had every section a radio. Do you know how heavy radios were in the 40's ?

>>35163992
1. Realise the real thing that created the stalemate of ww1 was the much easier communication for the defender due to wired communications while attacking forces had to use messengers, dogs and pigeons to coordinate against counterattacks.
2. Realise the thing that ended said stalemate was the development of small unit tactics and more responsive doctrine at a low level, shift away from massive prepared manoeuvres.
> holy shit portable radios exist
> this changes everything
> mass produce portable radios,
3. reform all doctrine to reflect new speed of communication, emphasis on motorised and mechanized infantry supported by armour with integrated communications, emphasis on manouvre, spontaneity and flexibility
4. Repeat for the air force, buy modern fighters, light bombers that are effective at low altitude, dive and develop air support techniques, and a force of cost effective medium bombers that can get into heartland Germany from forward bases.
5. Attack in support of Poland in 1939.

>>35192807
I'm kind of torn but I think this post is even more retarded than
>>35182462

They are probably made by the same guy anyway.

>>35163992
>Invest in better anti-tank weapons
>Move a fuckload of troops to the border with Belgium
>Done

>>35193533
All of their AT weapons were effective against German tanks and they moved a fuckload of troops to Belgium.

>>35171055
Two bombs were not enough

>>35193654
>they moved a fuckload of troops to Belgium.

No, they didn't, they were dumb enough to think Germany wouldn't come through the Ardennes so they didn't have a huge amount of troops there and guess what happened, Germany came through the fucking Ardennes while the majority of French defensive troops were on the German border

>>35171055
Two bombs were *not* enough.

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>>35193665
Erm, a larger part of the French army and the part that was the best equipped was either actually in Belgium or on the Belgian border.

>>35192462
>It's uchronic, not historic. And based on the real WW1 journal "L'image de la guerre", "the picture of war".
Sorry, my French is horrible to say the least.
>So there are lots of chances the rifle here may be a MAS 44 which looks pretty much the same as the MAS 40.
No, it's a MAS40. Just look at the barrel bands and the magazine well. It has the same style of catch as the MAS36 and doesn't have the cut out for the 10 round magazine.

The good news is that a MAS40 survived WWII. I have heard that none made it though.

>Do you have any reliable information about this ? I got many contradictory statements on this, including from people who had relatives working there during the occupation of France.
Only Steyer, Haenel, and Erma made MP40s. They may have just assumed that sub machine guns = MP40s. They may have also made small parts for the MP40 as a subcontractor for one of those 3.

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>>35193014
>75mm TAZ AT gun
>29/20mm Larsen squeeze bore AT gun
>AT shells for 90mm AA guns
>APDS 37mm shells for the old tanks
>shaped charge rifle grenades, mortar and howitzer shells
>Puteaux wire-guided AT rockets.
Sad.

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>>35193014
That's basically the Laffly W 15 TTC, a project that was rushed in production in 1940, and fielded against german tanks with devastating results.
But eh, too few, too late.

>>35193203
Nonetheless, french comms were pretty outdated at the start of ww2, adding to the issues of lack of intel training and HQs being very far from the frontlines.

>>35193760
>Sorry, my French is horrible to say the least.
Don't worry my english probably isn't any better.

>No, it's a MAS40. Just look at the barrel bands and the magazine well. It has the same style of catch as the MAS36 and doesn't have the cut out for the 10 round magazine.
>upon inspection it seems about right ! It's sad we can't see the rear of the receiver a bit more, the angled slope (only found on 40 and 44) would have been a dead giveaway to know for sure it's a real one and not a reproduction from parts. (I know a handful of pseudo-MAS40 were made this way for militaria collectors at least 20 years ago)

>The good news is that a MAS40 survived WWII. I have heard that none made it though.
There's at least 1 place where you can see one, guaranteed. In Saint Etienne, at the museum of art and industry, among more than 2350 rifles coming from the old MAS technical collection.
Here's their website.
>http://www.musee-art-industrie.saint-etienne.fr/decouvrir/collections/collection-armes

>Only Steyer, Haenel, and Erma made MP40s. They may have just assumed that sub machine guns = MP40s. They may have also made small parts for the MP40 as a subcontractor for one of those 3.
Sounds plausible. By any chance, do you have any idea if a german automatic rifle (could be anythting from a SMG to a machine gun really) was codenamed "K3" ? Because it's a code that came up often when I asked some people from St Etienne who knew about war production for Germany in the MAS : "they used to make K3 automatic rifles". It could have been a misinterpretation though.

>>35193527
>One of the two post focus on asking for more lethal equipement
>the other post literally realize it's not getting more lethal equipement actually able to pierce German Armor
>simply decide that from now on they shouldn't waste time destroying armor on first contact when they can immobilize it and simply not allow it to change it's treads for long enough to be destroyed.
The rifles, aircrafts and infantry tanks were alright the main problem was the lack of a coherent radio command.
Regarding AT one of the main problem of the B2 and 25mm Hotchkiss was that it simply was unable to actually pierce German armor, simply adapting your doctrine to cope with that fact is common sense.
Not only accounting for following the followling fact that probably would have helped the credibility of the doctrine.
"The BEF was fully mechanised and attempted to tow the weapon behind their vehicles, but quickly found that it was not robust enough, having been designed to be towed by horses. The solution was to use the gun as a portee, that is, carried in the back of a truck. It was the first artillery piece to be used in this way."
This small detail make us sure that thoses AT guns would have been light enough to reach the front line but also probably able to disengage if needed.
Most people would still consider Germany a fighting force after this but in truth most Panzers didn't even have enough logistical support for a slightly longer operation, something that appeared during Operation Barbarossa.
Whilst this wouldn't stop the German advance it would certainly slow it, and that alone is enough because the Tank's main asset for survival back in 1940s is it's mobility.
For short I don't think this approach is more retarded than thinking France could go on the same level of military spending with Germany or even compete with their weaponry in 1940s which is why I think an indirect approach to destroying armored enemy forces.
Instead of copying the Germans counter them.

>>35194308
>one of the main problem of the B2 and 25mm Hotchkiss was that it simply was unable to actually pierce German armor,
Are you being serious? 60% of German ,,,,,armor,,,,, was Pz 1 and 2. You could probably punch hard enough to pierce their armor.
And besides French had more than enough weapons that could destroy Pz III and IV.

>>35194308
This is now the dumbest post in this thread. Yes, it is dumber than the post that claimed that French air force was full of biplanes while posting Belgian soldiers.

>>35194308
>Regarding AT one of the main problem of the B2 and 25mm Hotchkiss was that it simply was unable to actually pierce German armor
Germany lost a 3rd of its tanks. I'd say the French army had weapons capable of piercing German armor.

>>35194358
>>35194363
The Panzer I and Panzer II were part of the fucking spear head retards by the time they would have swooped in, the AT guns would have been destroyed by the well organized Panzer III and Panzer IV.
Like wise in the Poland campaign most losses due to AT and Tank Combat were on the Panzer III, which is essentially the Archetype first encounter that could have happened if you're trying to ambush them.
Also 25 mm Hotchkiss cannot piece the Panzer III and IV only the canon de 47 mm was able to do it.
>>35194393
If you look at what they actually destroyed it's not the Highly armored spearhead but mostly mislabelled armored vehicules and other asssorted armored scout cars.

The gist of it is not that the French couldn't harm any armor it's that they couldn't harm the spearhead due to it's sheer speed (unable to position Canon de 47mm in time) and that anything they managed to harm was non-essential to the German offensive.

>>35194413
Tanks did not spearhead attacks against emplaced guns. Every breakthrough against defended positions was made by infantry.
Please do not ever post again or read a book before you post.

>>35194413
>If you look at what they actually destroyed it's not the Highly armored spearhead
Germany lost 135 out of 349 Pz IIIs, 97 out of 280 Pz IVs. Your "spearhead" suffered the same rate of losses as Pz I and IIs.

>>35194434
>Every breakthrough against defended positions was made by infantry.
>implying that when offensively moving the german would be able to detect and attack with infantry any fucking AT position
>implying that the whole fucking point of tanks was to not have your infantry mowed down by Machineguns as they run for the gun emplacement.
Christ no amount of explaining will do with retard like you will it?
>>35194444
>encounter AT more often to protect the more lightly armored target
>face higher destruction overall due to lucky shots from AT, artillery and other factor as a result
>"but i swear they can pierce them just as good"
The rate should have been at least triple if they were truly able to pierce them with their Lighter AT.

>>35194084
>There's at least 1 place where you can see one, guaranteed. In Saint Etienne, at the museum of art and industry, among more than 2350 rifles coming from the old MAS technical collection.
>Here's their website.
I plan on going there one of these days! Just too poor.

>Sounds plausible. By any chance, do you have any idea if a german automatic rifle (could be anythting from a SMG to a machine gun really) was codenamed "K3" ? Because it's a code that came up often when I asked some people from St Etienne who knew about war production for Germany in the MAS : "they used to make K3 automatic rifles". It could have been a misinterpretation though.
You're thinking of the G43 which they renamed the K43 in 1944. I did a little digging and it seams that MAS made barrels for them. Their manufactuer code was OGY. Tulle was OGS. At least according to this site: https://www.firearmsales.com.au/germancodes.php

>>35194481
>>implying that when offensively moving the german would be able to detect and attack with infantry any fucking AT position
Not only were they able to do that, they actually did it, in every single major breakthrough made in BoF.

>>implying that the whole fucking point of tanks was to not have your infantry mowed down by Machineguns as they run for the gun emplacement
The point of tanks was not to run them in front of emplaced guns and get knocked out. Sadly the German army was not as stupid as you and didn't get defeated within weeks.

>face higher destruction overall due to lucky shots from AT, artillery and other factor as a result
If you lose a third of your tanks, it's not lucky shots anymore at that point. It's the enemy having weapons that are more than capable of destroying your weapons.

>>35194504
>"If you lose a third of your tanks, it's not lucky shots anymore at that point. It's the enemy having weapons that are more than capable of destroying your weapons."
>force engage AT guns more that Three times as often as the infantry support tanks
>expect losses to be at least Three time higher if the AT gun's capacity to penetrate a Pz III or PZ IV was the same as it's ability to penetrate a Pz II or Pz I
>turn out it's much lower
>could it be their lethality against Pz III and IV is null on their AT gun and that losses on the German side are Pz III and Pz IV taking down AT emplacement thinking it's 25mm Hotchkiss who can't harm them only to surprised by canon de 47mm?

>The point of tanks was not to run them in front of emplaced guns and get knocked out.
LaughingB2.jpg

>Not only were they able to do that, they actually did it
so that's why the Tank casuality is that high then?

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>>35163992

>1930's France

I'd completely waste the opportunity to change history. I'd probably just try to fuck as many European girls as possible. Maybe "invent" a few things in order to keep the good times rolling.

Do I get transported back afterwards? I'd be the same age as my illigitimate offsprings offspring. Maybe I could knock up my grandaughters and great grandaughters just to keep the ball rolling.

>>35194539
>>could it be their lethality against Pz III and IV is null on their AT gun and that losses on the German side are Pz III and Pz IV taking down AT emplacement thinking it's 25mm Hotchkiss who can't harm them only to surprised by canon de 47mm?
Yeah every single Pz III and IV loss was caused by tank commanders thinking the AT gun they were bravely storming was 25mm hotchkiss.
And besides French 25mm guns were capable of dealing with Pz III and IVs under 1000m from angles.

>so that's why the Tank casuality is that high then?
Casualty rate for everything in every army was high, anon-kun.

>>35194588
>And besides French 25mm guns were capable of dealing with Pz III and IVs under 1000m from angles.
>from angles
and why the fuck would Hans show his pristine ass for you to bite it?
>Yeah every single Pz III and IV loss was caused by tank commanders thinking the AT gun they were bravely storming was 25mm hotchkiss.
Not my point but nice straw man though i'm pretty sure misundertsanding on that front is bound to happen.
>Casualty rate for everything in every army was high, anon-kun.
It goes to reason that if German infantry was able to always take out the AT guns there's be not such an amount of Tank casualities.
This only increase the credibility of my doctrine since by removing the speed of the German armor they'd easily be able to take it out by swarming it with more AT blocking it's advance and more infantry guarding the AT.
At this point this would revert to an Infantry slugfest which is the only hope for the French to have stopped the German offensive.

My point isn't that All AT and All tanks should only shoot to immobilize but it stand to reason that some thought should have been given to instruct to immobilize the Pz III and Pz IV to completely neuter the Spearhead.

>>35192400
>defending your allies isn't your problem
:thinking:

Keep the competent officers that learned from the Spanish civil war, and renew the air force
D520 was too little too late on one side, and a big amount of fighter-bombers/dive bombers similar to the Stukas/Sturmovik/Thunderbolt/Typhoon

And don't count on Belgium and the Ardennes to stop the Germans

>>35194632
>It goes to reason that if German infantry was able to always take out the AT guns there's be not such an amount of Tank casualities.
You are trying to deduce and reconstruct how WW2 must have unfolded from your tiny reservoir of historical knowledge. There's no need to do that. How German tank forces assaulted France is known, and there are extensive records from both sides about it. We know that it was infantry that broke through and pacified fortified positions, and we also know that such was the doctrine in all the armies of the time.

>>35194632
>This only increase the credibility of my doctrine since by removing the speed of the German armor they'd easily be able to take it out by swarming it with more AT blocking it's advance and more infantry guarding the AT.
>At this point this would revert to an Infantry slugfest which is the only hope for the French to have stopped the German offensive.
>My point isn't that All AT and All tanks should only shoot to immobilize but it stand to reason that some thought should have been given to instruct to immobilize the Pz III and Pz IV to completely neuter the Spearhead.
I will be generous and say that what you are trying really hard to say is the French should've deployed a defense in depth, so that when their forward positions are broken through they are not completely compromised. That is correct.

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>>35194413
>Also 25 mm Hotchkiss cannot piece the Panzer III and IV only the canon de 47 mm was able to do it.

What?
According to colonel Kühne (3.Panzerbrigade, 3.PzD) :
>"The accuracy of the French 25mm AT gun is very good. The front hull armor of the Panzer III has been easily penetrated by the excellent French 25mm AT gun. Trials with booty guns proved that the French 25mm AT gun is superior to the German 3.7cm PaK. This 25mm AT gun is very hard to spot because the flash is invisible (flash hider)."

IIRC, during the battle of France, only the StuG Ausf.A was immune, from the front, to the 25mm. If the 25mm had a weakness it was certainly not a lack of penetration (but rather no HE and weak post penetration effects at longer range).

>>35194676
>I will be generous and say that what you are trying really hard to say is the French should've deployed a defense in depth, so that when their forward positions are broken through they are not completely compromised. That is correct.

This is what the Weygand line was, and it showed its worth during Fall Rot, but without reserves due to the losses of May it could not be sustained.

>>35194771
>front hull armor
>doesn't specify whick part of the armor
every godamn time.
>If the 25mm had a weakness it was certainly not a lack of penetration (but rather no HE and weak post penetration effects at longer range).
This is correct though I don't quite consider penetration without damage to be an objective or relevant.
Also the Flash hider bit add more credibility to the possibility of hiding the AT guns and waiting for more decisive shot onto other part of the armor that could have been more damaging to the tanks themselves instead of knocking a few parts in the lower part of the tank only to be destroyed by an undamaged turret or another nearby tank.

>>35163992
fund: something like the STEN, sidefolding stock & drum mag.Standard issue for all combat troops.
type 63/nebelwerfer per company.
M2-a-like
create/arm (rifles, mortars) secessionist groups in each Lander
arm (pistols and grenades) communist/socialist/anarchist groups in germany
split belguim and Francophone area becomes part of France.
Hire disposable troops (criminals/poles) as a political/economic warfare unit specialising in assassinations/, provocations and hitting infrastructure.
Secretly fund german daily tabloid paper, a broadsheet & a radio station. have them insert stories favourable to your country and dividing germans.

>>35194492
>You're thinking of the G43 which they renamed the K43 in 1944. I did a little digging and it seams that MAS made barrels for them. Their manufactuer code was OGY. Tulle was OGS. At least according to this site: https://www.firearmsales.com.au/germancodes.php
many many thanks, it's seems likely, I'm going to ask questions around to get confirmation.

>>35194802
>This is correct though I don't quite consider penetration without damage to be an objective or relevant.

Dude, at this point just learn how to physics. This post is cringy, and this is considering we're in a thread full of e-peen country pride.

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One of the main assets France has is French aeronautics. Utilize it and improve it. No matter how much money, spare parts and fuel does it cost, have the pilots train from dawn to dusk and sometimes, from dusk to dawn. Experiment with and develop aggressive fighter tactics and a flexible organization. Have the pilots constantly practice navigation, formation flying, aerobatics, night flying and rough weather flying. Have light bomber pilots constantly practice dive bombing and strafing, the proving grounds and gunnery ranges must never be unoccupied. Have the fighters, the tactical bombers and the tanks train together. Gain experience at high-altitude flying, put effort into designing better engines and better airframes. Experiment with improving the efficiency of aircraft manufacturing. Develop a 'Cult of Aviation.' Popularize gliding and other flying sports among the youth to have a lot of young men to recruit from.

Air power is not everything, but when you control the skies and when you strike at the enemy when and where you damn please, you know the gods of war smile upon you. When the Boche comes, let them feel that they are not the only ones capable of having a mean, aggressive and efficient air force. The skies are not theirs and neither will be the country.

>>35194802
>penetration without damage
literally what the fuck are you even talking about

>>35195100
>>35195048
>shot penetrate
>damage only a few component and maybe kill a crew menber or two
>doesn't penetrate ammo storage or the turret
>tank still destroy the AT later down the line and get repaired and recrewed
>proceed to continue your proud pounding of inferior forces with your tank that has 30mm armor on the Front while the French AT cannot prenetrate you above 1000m
That's penetration without damage, tank crew and spare parts are easy to get, immobilization or complete destruction of a Tank was their main priority not forcing Hans to do his monthly mechanics check 1 month early.
HEAT wasn't really a thing in 1940, since the German Army introduced it in the middle of that year so most rounds weren't that fucking dangerous.

>>35195127
>Penetrate tank
>kill multiple crew, potentially cause an ammo detonation, almost definitely damage important parts like the engine or gun
or we could use your retarded plan
>knock a piece of the track off which does nothing to stop the tank from annihilating your AT position immediately afterwards
>tank crew replace broken track segment after blowing you the fuck out and continue on their way instead of taking hours or days to replace crew and broken components, assuming they aren't ammo racked and turned into a burning husk

>>35195127
>it's just a flesh wound

>>35195194
Let's replay that
>tank crew get out to replace treads while the enemy called artillery on the tank before
>get killed by artillery
or
>Infantry swarm the immobile Tank to capture it

>>35195066
yes put everything in one basket, the most expensive and resource consuming one at that.

>>35195127
>damage only a few component and maybe kill a crew menber or two
>no damage
I seriously hope you're only pretending at that point. Or that english isn't your native language.
The concept you're using is M/F/K-kill.

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>>35195207
So you're betting on your ability for your artillery to dial in and deal with tanks instead of using your AT guns, which can already penetrate and damage or kill enemy tanks, to just deal with the tanks directly?

>>35195239
That's pretty much the very concept of an indirect approach.
Immobilize, prevent repair via artillery/motar fire then proceed to seize the enemy's tanks.
This is much safer for the AT gun that with the Flash hider will not get spotted on the first shot only and therefore will be able to retire to another loacation.
It could also allow for an increased amount of capture of enemy tanks.
Essentially turn thoses tanks into bunkers and treat them as such.
France has plenty more items and tactics in it's arsenal able to deal with bunkers than tanks.

>>35195268
France already HAS the items to deal with tanks. You're using guns that can and did regularly kill tanks to instead just disable tanks. Your plan would better be filled by AT rifles, since those are more mobile and easier to conceal.

>>35195332
I think I mentioned Infantry AT earlier.
This of course follows that if i apply the doctrine to immobilize in priority tanks , it would have been applied to the whole army fighting highly armored tanks.
AT mines again would have been used for this purpose too.
Again destroying the German forces was something highly unlikely but with enough effort immobilizing the most armored German tanks that were the Pz III and Pz IV would have basically rendered offensives much more bloody and dangerous for the Germans, the status of German Logistical and maintenance support of Panzers in 1940 was far from perfect and showed a few flaws even the last year in Poland, straining it to the point where it could not be reactive enough to fullfill the maintenance demands constant low lethality attacks would have been death by a thousand paper cuts for them.

>>35195380
>let's take away AT guns that killed tanks from infantry, give them weaker AT rifles, and have them call for artillery support whenever they run into tanks

>>35163992
Dont know much about military tactics but i would probably start by strengthening the part of the maginot line that borders belgium

>>35163992
Lock the communists in France up and ship them off to Africa first
Expand on French armor massively
Realize Belgium is fucking useless and reinforce the border
Enforce the treaty and stop the reoccupation of the Rhine
Convince the UK that Germany will fuck us if they are actually allowed to occupy territories
It would be difficult to do but reality is France had a great chance at beating Germany early on were it not for politics and communists

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>reality is France had a great chance at beating Germany early on were it not for politics and communists
The lesson of History : Never let Socialists run your country.

>>35196887
US had socialists running the country and it won. So did the Soviets.

>>35171055
Two bombs weren't enough

>>35163992
Bring Italy to my side and avoid sanctioning their ass for their invasion of Ethiopia, help them reinforcing the Alps while expanding frenchie motorized corps
Also get rid of the french commies

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>>35197074
Italy isn't of military importance whatsoever. In fact, I would go as far as to say that, by siding with the Axis, they actually helped the Allies win the war.

>>35197197
Italian officers were top tier idiots but that's nothing new, and if that wasn't enough Mussolini ditched radar technology at first because it was too expensive
Bringing them to the Allies' side would force the Germans to fight on two sides tho and I doubt that they can pull a blitzkrieg on the fucking Alps
This WW2 meme needs to fucking die already for both Italy and France

Train their tank crews to operate their vehicles and give them fucking radios.

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>>35197293
>I doubt that they can pull a blitzkrieg on the fucking Alps
Stranger things have happened.

>>35170498
>if the Belgians. . .
Yeah, well that was the problem wasn't it. Plans that only work when you expect other people (even allies) to act as planned have a habit of falling apart.
To be fair to the French, even their conscript army would have fought better if the commies in France hadn't been spreading sabotage and defeatism throughout the the country in support of the Nazi's. Remember Germany & the USSR were sort of allies in 1940.

>>35197197
How did the Italian contribution in WW2 HELP the Allies? You can argue they didn't help the Axis cause much (you'd be wrong, they massively extended the length of the war) but they were pretty useless for the Allies as well once the Italians switched sides in '43.