Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
Previous thread: >>17592815
This thread is for the discussion and learning of Japanese with raw VNs, LNs, Jdrama, anime and manga.
If you have no interest in otaku media or want to request a translation, this is not the thread for you.
Remember to sage!
からして has two meanings, "judging from" and "even". It has to mean "even" here because your own preferences are not something you judge based on external information. (Nonsense: "Judging from the food, I didn't like the restaurant.") It doesn't make sense to say you dislike "even" the food or flavor of a restaurant.
If you have a text with hiragana and just want to change it to katakana for training purposes, here: https://f.lewd.se/LQi6Fi.html
It should convert both ways and leave the unrelated characters alone.
the "review forgotten words" custom study is really helpful for me, i do my normal anki on mornings and custom study before sleep for more exercise and it really helps the more difficult words stick
So I finally experienced some power outages and internet death so I'm downloading the grammar stuff that could be useful. What was the new hotness in grammar? The CoR has "A Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns for Teachers and Learners - English version" and another one that goes by "A Handbook of Japanese Grammar". Is that the same stuff or which one is the "good" one?
Here's a fun article about differences in language efficiency (it's more of a light magazine read than an in depth statistical comparison). Since it's a topic that comes up here every once in a while I think people might enjoy it.
The "A Handbook of Japanese Grammar" PDF in the CoR is not the HJGP. Notice the "Patterns" part is missing from its title. That PDF has a different author and is from a different publisher. It's completely unrelated, just with a deceptively similar title.
can you torrent or give me a megalink pls senpai
I want to learn the basics of Japanese in order to watch my favourite TV shows - most common words and phrases basically. What's the best route for this, so far I laid my hands on Genki 1 and FSI materials and will pick either if I don't find anything better. What do you recommend?
Realistically I sense what kind of commitement it is to learn Jap and since I want to use it only in such narrow way it's pointless for me to learn it very toroughly if I hear 'hontoni' and 'sugoi' most of the time.
Watching TV shows requires you to be at a fairly high level. Unlike reading where you decide the pace, with listening the pace is decided for you by the speaker, and it's more difficult to look up whatever you don't understand since you have to figure out what was said for yourself using your listening comprehension skills (which take a lot of practice to develop).
If you think just reading Genki and learning a handful of common words is going to let you watch Japanese TV, you are sorely mistaken.
Yes, but only if you can't handle it. If you just so happen to be able to do 30 new cards a day without wasting tons of time, go for it. Just be aware that any change in the number of new cards per day is going to have a delayed response in terms of new cards so if you cut down on new cards it'll be a bit before the effects show in your review count.
The て form is sometimes used with nothing else to form a command, right?
Also, is this a casual, slangy way of doing things?
That girl waved her hand!
Dad, you wave too!
Since your dad can't let go [of the wheel], you do my portion of the waving.
Do I have a future career as a translator?
(No really, did I get it right?)
I wonder if it's just there for emphasis... Mukashi mukashi I remember listening to a Japanese Pod 101 lesson where し was used in that way and the teacher (Naomi-sensei) said that it isn't exactly correct Japanese, but that some young people do use it anyway and that it probably came from the し you use when listing things.
That's what I guessed, but the first clause isn't a "reason" for anything. The speaker just called out "How big are your boobs?" to the new girl introducing herself to the class.
>but the first clause isn't a "reason" for anything.
Sorry, I tried to explain that it is purely for emphasis and not related to the reason but I see that the jgram link didn't mention that use -- sorry.
Here you go, Maggie-sensei to the rescue: use #4.
I feel like I'm learning my mining cards so much better than core that I'm gonna bump up how many I'm doing per day. Anybody else feel this way? I don't know what it is. Maybe because I have more interest in the subject matter at hand, I'm remembering words that relate to it better? Much easier than stuff like 企業, 株, 複雑 etc at any rate.
It's not. This is ない as in "Nope. Nuh-uh. Not going to fly."
That question is out of the question. That question is right out. That question is not going to fly. That's a stupid fucking question.
Core kind of throws you right into the fire and its vocab is definitely more 社会人用. I don't have much of a problem with it but I had a lot of listening under my belt before I really started studying. I struggle with my mine deck more because my reading/writing isn't as good as my listening.
>needing a dictionary every sentence?
Every sentence is probably only 2-3. Thats to completion, every route and not including shorter stuff like hanahira
There's no real answer to that because it depends on what you are reading. If you read the last thread, you'll see that there's an anon with 13k mature words and several dozen LNs under his belt asking the same question about books. I think what matters is to read a lot and read a variety of material. For example, this past week or so I've been reading manga a step above beginner level material. So when I go back to beginner material, I can find pages where I don't have to look anything up like pic related. Sure, it's an easy conversation, but I can be happy in my progress that I can quickly read it. This week I'm going to switch back to reading VNs, and then the week after that I might try out a LN. As long as I keep up an interesting variety of input, I know I will keep progressing.
I'm kind of stumped on the 甘え出したらどこまでも甘えてしまう expression here. I'm interpreting it as "If we start depending on each other, we'll become completely indulgent." But the conditional following どこまでも is kind of confusing, any help?
Why is it so hard to find audio or video of people speaking dialects?
If you listen to local radio shows, all the presenters just speak in the Tokyo dialect. If you search the internet for videos, about all you find is clips of shitty TV shows where dumb assholes from Tokyo go to some rural area and ask people to read words so they can laugh at them when they say them differently. In the rare cases where someone speaks a dialect in an anime or something, most of the time the character isn't very prominent and/or only speaks their dialect on rare occasions (e.g. for about 2 lines when they get flustered before promptly returning to the Yamanote Tokyo dialect).
Where are all the Sean Beans and Michael Caines of Japan?
About all I'm aware of on that front is 1970s yakuza movies where it's apparently common for the yakuza characters to speak in either Kansai or Hiroshima dialect. I'm not aware of any other films where dialects are prominent (I'm sure there must be some, but whether they are any good is another matter), but either way, the odd movie isn't really very substantial.
I was hoping I could find a radio station or a long TV series where you get the opportunity to hear lots of people speaking in dialect, but with every radio station I find all the presenters speak in standard Japanese (i.e. Tokyo Yamanote dialect) and the only TV show I know of which might fit the bill is あまちゃん which takes place in Northern Japan where the Tohoku dialect (which I'm not interested in) is spoken, but only two of the actors in this show are actually from the Tohoku region (and only one of them is from the actual prefecture which the show is set in) and many of the actors are bizarrely from as far away as Kyuushuu.
Can someone here tell me what those are? Katakana? Hiragana?
How is this? I just remember it being mentioned in one of the advanced jpod lessons but I never bothered looking into it.
By definition, they will be few and you will run out of them pretty fast, so no.
I do wish we had some kind of consesus on what to ignore though, foods maybe, 'special' ways of calling it red or blue
thing is I can never bring myself to toss them away, even if Ill never eat that kinda food myself or understand the people that were 佐幕 or what was going on during 志徳 but i know them when other people talk about it
Have you been studying enough, anon? I hope you haven't been slacking.
Not really. You could say 95% of Japanese overlaps itself in all media - you can find Economic lectures in a random classroom scene in a moege, for example - so even if you read a casual assortment of things there shouldn't be any major problem jumping to harder things. The only thing to watch out for are nukige, those are so focused on sex they provide less opportunity to expand your overall vocabulary, so if you read too many of them then your "progress" will likely be stunted to reflect that.
I think in almost all cases, Japanese difficulty is exaggerated for VNs. Dies Irae is 1% chuuni chants that're hard to comprehend and 99% normal Japanese. You don't really need to focus on reading X hard things to grow, you'll get there naturally. Sole exception being Motherfucking Mareni who's so hard the Japanese themselves literally need to make fan sites to keep up with his vocabulary: http://railseibiya.web.fc2.com/ .
As an extension of that, it's important to remember that even natives can struggle with their own language. Don't use this as too much of a psychological crutch, but it's common for natives of say English to struggle with dense language like pic related. You'll NEVER be able to consume all Japanese without struggle. No VNs will be this hard, though, so don't worry about it too much.
Thanks, I suspected as much(heavy overlap) but its nice to hear. All im looking forward to is the day I stuggle to mine more than 20 new words on average for the month, and I can finally start catching up on the backlog of unseen.
pic related is written like a fairly standard textbook, so as long as your english proficiency is similar to a high school student, it wouldn't be hard to understand, but hard to passively read because most textbooks have such density of information.
I've never come across 連発 before and I'm really confused about how it fits in this sentence. I'm struggling to make even an educated guess because my research suggests that 連発 is verbal bombardment (e.g. a small kid bombarding their parents with questions), but this is the first time these characters have spoken since 'yesterday's mistake'.
Thanks, I had one online dictionary tell me it was for verbal repetition and it was the only sentence I could find context for.
Is that Rikaisama? Damn, it's a lot more helpful than mine.
Try installing an old version of Clipboard Inserter:
0.1.0 should be compatible. You might have to disable automatic updates for it though to stop Firefox from updating it on its own.
>I think I read 50~ before I stopped using a dictionary pretty much at all.
I guess I'll get there in 25 years then, considering I'm reading Hanahira for about half a year now.
Perhaps I should just give up now.
In all seriousness, how difficult is Fate/Stay Night? I've read 3 low-level VNs, how much harder is it than say Himawari or Aiyoku no Eustia?
The secret to learning Japanese is to find something so compelling that you wake up eager to read it and need to tear yourself away from it at night. If something bores you for multiple days you should drop it.
its probably difficult to fully grasp without really knowing japanese
nasu is a guy that doesnt really understand a lot of things that he uses in his stories and also tries real hard to sound impressive to 13 year olds which means you lose out if you dont understand where those spots are as well
The problem for beginners to reading is that you're guaranteed to ruin the first thing you read (or at least the first half of it) because you'll be spending ages looking up even the most basic words and as a result the scenes won't flow very well.
That's why it's best to start out with something that is compelling to read but not TOO good so you don't spoil a masterpiece by starting with it.
Why are you fuckers recommending VNs or real books to beginners?
LNs are the best. They are short as fuck so you feel like you are moving forward and they have less long-winded plot so you are less bored reading at a glacial pace. What's more if you read them in your browser you get instantaneous lookup thanks to Rikaisama. Not to mention one-click Anki card creation.
I'm about to finish my first VN and while I learned a lot, I still have to look up quite a lot of words.
Now that's fine cause I gradually get better, the next VN should become easier and easier as I go on.
漫画 usually uses rather easy language and many of them have furigana, so that's not too hard to read as well.
But ゲーム seem like a huge wall, something I can only enjoy after I become fairly good at Japanese, with it's often auto advancing text and no way to look up words easily.
Are games easier than the average VN language wise? If I read 2-3 more VNs will I be able to play through a JRPG without having to look up too much stuff?
I just feel so hopeless without a texthooker.
I'm having fun with Goblin Slayer (and I'm just a beginner too). You can use the translation as training wheels, it's pretty faithful (or at least it's more faithful than Spice and Wolf or Kino no Tabi's translations).
Here is a screenshot from an average Japanese game.
Could someone help me nail down the specifics of a sentence?
Someone lost an arm wrestling match and his friend is teasing him by saying that his macho appearance is all for show. The guy replies with:
Is he saying "You bastard, if I lost to this guy then I gotta juice"? I'm getting juicing is a fitness thing.
Games have much more repetitive dialogue, which will help you get acquainted with specialized vocab, but no backlog feature and auto-advancing text might give you some trouble. If you can read simple VNs on auto mode you should be fine.
Are any of you bad enough dudes to explain the difference in using ように and ために？
As far as I can tell, ように deals with things you cannot control (so, mainly intransitive verbs), the negatives and the potential form. ために states a goal and a thing that you're doing to surefire achieve it, ye?
If (you, he, someone else depending on the context) lose to that chicken, you're buying juice for us both (for you and me).
If I "know" all the grammar in the basic DOJG, where does that put me on the JLPT (as far as grammar goes)? Is that N4 or N3? I don't think I'll take the test but since people talk about it all the time I'm curious about my progress
You've had probably thought you were being cute, however I have easily deciphered this.
Seems almost a bit too easy, but ok. I'm also shocked to learn that 出る is actually an intransitive verb.
Doesn't explain negations or things like 忘れない being used with ように。I can kind of get it on my own, because you can't really have any power over whether or not you forget something, but ok.
My bad, I should have specified that 三鳥 is the name of the guy talking shit.
The context is that both the guy talking shit and the guy on the receiving end of the shit have lost their arm wrestling matches. Does this mean that he's basically saying "If anyone else loses to this guy, you have to buy us juice"?
I've only read 1/3 of tae kim so far, and I don't feel like going much further with grammar at the moment. It's already a lot to take in and I feel like reading an additional 200 pages won't do me any good.
Last I tried yomichan (three weeks ago) it sucked pretty hard. So did rikaichan.
Just stick to Rilkaisama (or rather the fork called orikaisama, you can find the xpi on github so it's as easy to install as vanilla).
>study core 10k
>want a field for the definition in japanese, and hide the translated response
can something be done or do i have to review on a different deck? I'm near halfways done with it.
i'm confused I have less words on anki to review every day it's gone 93->82->74 and tomorrow only 52, i don't get it it worries me, shouldn't it show me more because i'm taking 20 new words per day and i'm not a very fast learner
Read about the features and compare them to rikaichan.
Whether any of that is important is up to you. I was too harsh toward rikaichan to be honest. Compared to yomichan it's good.
I don't remember, is there j-j option for rikaichan? If the answer is yes then it should be workable, even if a bit barebones.
Reminder that you should only make flashcards for specialised and obscure vocabulary which is hard to learn through exposure alone. If you are making and reviewing cards for common words, you are wasting your time.
How's is somebody who's still in the "making flashcards constantly" phase of learning supposed to know which words are common and which ones are specialized?
In fact, merely the act of looking up the word, writing it down, writing its definition etc. is helpful in remembering it.
Does anyone happen to have the 1st volume of the 乃木若葉は勇者である LN in epub/html/pdf format? I was able to find the 2nd volume on baidu, but can only find magazine scans for the first volume. If not, it's not too big of a deal, would just be nice to have everything in the same text format with smaller filesize and the ability to look up words a little faster.
Japanese novels are usually written in Japanese, but putting aside whether novels are your target corpus or not, that's not it's weakness. Most of the inaccuracies you'll find in that metric are a result of parsing errors or optional spellings. Still it's good enough that you should be able to use it with common sense.
Google translate is giving me "a few minutes on foot" for this, but i'm having trouble breaking it down into bits. This phrase makes plenty sense in context, but it's also not popping up on jisho, nor is any real combination of these kanji with the exception of 徒歩, which is easy enough. Should I bother trying to make sense of this, or should I just stick it in anki as "expression?"
徒歩 / 数分 / 程度
What's your problem? Long strings of kanji words pressed into one isn't strange.
Ah, man, I fucked up when I was copying 数分 into Jisho. I swear I tried it several times and didn't get any results, so I must just have somehow fucked up several times in a row. Must be getting too tired. Sorry to bug, anon.
No problem, of course, this is a home for others to help each other. Though, I would perhaps suggest paying a bit more attention, as 数分 even without Jisho should be comprehensible, with 数 being "several / a number of" and 分 being minute(s).
>tfw you commute to work and study but forget to sync your anki deck and it compounds over 2 days when you get back
I never had a lot of interest in Light Novels compared to manga,but now I might as well give it a try. Can anyone let me know which of these titles are beginner friendly, and which ones might give me a lot of trouble? I can currently read a variety of manga with a dictionary on hand.
Spice and Wolf
Amagi Brilliant Park
Full Metal Panic
Kino no Tabi
look there is no friendly japanese media targeted at tweens teenagers and young adults for people who dont know japanese so dont ask and either read something youre more capable of reading or enjoy reading everything looking up every other thing till you die or stop wanting to read that junk
Context it's talking about a part-time job as a tutor, but I'm a little confused about the ご父兄の方 part, as well as why 面接を受ける is repeated.
Book Girl was okay. It was the first LN I ever read, and so of course I struggled here and there, but mostly it's not too hard. It spoils No Longer Human completely, though, so if you have interest in reading that at some point, don't pick it up.
Kino is about the same level from what I could tell, but I dropped it after its first two chapters were so similar that I was bored to tears.
I'd suggest that you skip the first few pages when gauging difficulty, actually, because first page syndrome. Though there is merit in reading things above your level, in any case. It's all opportunity to grow.
It was rough for me at first too, but then I just started remembering things. Maybe you are forcing too many words a day? Post your graphs.
I'm trying to read the instruction manual for this game Puyo Puyo Sun (pic related). The premise of this little story is that Satan wants to get a nice tan so he uses magic to make the sun really hot. I'm having trouble understanding this sentence:
Specifically my questions are:
1) The なんてのも in the first clause, I'm not sure how to parse that. My best guess is that the の is acting like a noun like "one" or "thing", so the first part of the sentence would be something like "Although the magazine also advertised things like 'southern country tour guides', ..."
2) The そこはサタン様のこと、. I know what it means on its own, I'm just know sure what it adds to the sentence, or why it can be a comma-delimited clause by itself. I would think that there should at least be some particle after the こと.
3) Which usage of と is being used in ...小麦色になるのが一番らくちんだと、含み笑いで... I don't think it can be "if", since the preceding clause is present tense and the following clause is past tense.
Sorry if I'm missing something basic here, I don't have a lot of practice reading longer sentences yet.
The point is that the first few pages aren't the author's style - first page syndrome is how authors put a ton of extra effort into the first few pages to suck people in and ensure sales or what have you. You get a much more honest look at the writer's style from the middle or early-middle sections of the book.
Use the Heisig method, bro. It doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me. People will probably call me a shill, but I love WaniKani and I think it's absolutely worth the money, it's so convenient having a bunch of mnemonics written for you and learning the kanji at a predefined pace.
I'm not familiar with core but does it include all potential forms or just some?
If only some, perhaps it's for special cases where the conjugation translates into a different English word. Similar to how 覚える translates to learn but 覚えている translates to remember.
I was told here once that a bunch of Japanese Graded Readers books are torrentable, but I don't know where should I look for them. Could anyone help me or nugde me in the right direction?
I thought the RTK method was garbage too, until I started using WaniKani which uses the RTK method and I found that it really works.
Ideally, however you're applying the RTK method, you should learn at least one reading and one vocab word along with each kanji. That way, if you see some word in the wild you don't know, say 自覚 or something, and you only recognize one of its kanji, say 自, then you can at least be like "oh, that kanji is in the word 自分", so then you can at least get the 自 part digitized and plug it into jisho.org and hopefully find the other word you're looking for.
However you decide to "learn" the kanji, it's not supposed to teach you everything there is to know about kanji or Japanese, it's just supposed to get you a foothold so you're not completely lost.
This is more or less what I've done with my deck. I try to have at least one 音読み and at least one 訓読み, with mouseover definitions and the keyword still accessible through mouseover if I need it. Not the same as doing a full production vocab deck, so it's not like I can magically write all the words I "know" through this deck, but still pretty helpful as a kanji deck while also not relying on the heisig keywords as much.
Are (???) a wizard?
Yeh, breh, let's learn 成就. Sweet. Ok, now what's the new word I encountered here...
Yeah! じょうちょう. じょうるほど! I got it! This is so cool. I'm sure glad I memorized readings while learning kanji, guys.
>pic related uses 僕
I thought that was just for wusses like you guys told me, what happened?
Does it have to be something like this, then?
>That the gentiles should be inheritors also, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise that is in Christ, by the means of the gospel, whereof I am made a minister, by the gift of the grace of God given unto me, through the working of his power. Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all men see what the fellowship of the mystery is which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made all things through Jesus Christ, to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manifold wisdom of God, according to that eternal purpose, which he purposed in Christ Jesu our Lord, by whom we are bold to draw near in that trust, which we have by faith on him.
I'm thinking of doing heisig/kanjidamage/whatever through vocabulary. Every time I come across a new word, I'll look up the radicals and mnemonic and try to learn them that way instead of through flash cards.
Has anyone tried this with any luck?
I don't really use phrases as much as mental images, and only for words I struggle with. For example I remember I would always mix up the two right hand radicals in 線 so I pictured a horizon line with clouds over water, problem solved.
A good mnemonic/visualization isn't something you have to actively remember, seeing the word or kanji will remind you of it and it merely acts as a backup in case you can't otherwise remember the meaning. A safety net of sorts.
I don't know if you do this already but writing kanji really helps you with recognizing the parts of a kanji, like you could just picture 線 as 糸 白 and 水 even shit with a crazy number of strokes like 鬱 is easy to recall from memory if you write enough, even if all you do is look at vocab without worrying about radicals eventually you'll easily be able to tell stuff apart like 装 製 or 勢 熱 without any effort at all
I suspect anon uses mental images to save time though, whereas repeatedly writing kanji until you get them specifically takes time.
"If you do it long enough you'll eventually get good at it" applies to every aspect of studying, but there's pretty much always a better way to go about it.
I don'r repeatedly write them, I wrote them every time I saw a word while doing anki, that's once for words I had seen and 3 for one's that were new every day, I still write them because I enjoy being able to do it, but at this point I can pretty easily recall how any kanji I've previously seen looks
you certainly don't need to write them 50 times over and over every day though
but again, whatever works for you.
And 線 is a mnemonic for 泉 in my case. Kanji are easy once you have the framework in place to make connections like that, but they're considerably harder if you're just trying to memorize a bunch of lines that don't have any meaning to you yet.
>This deck's purpose is to increase your reading skills.
Is that a good beginner deck for reading? I'm currently using Core 2k/6k and KKLC for vocabulary. I got too much free time so I simply added another deck because anon in here recommended it instead of increasing the number of cards per day in Core2k/6k.
What's the correct way to pronounce words with んい (e.g. 雰囲気, 戦意) in them?
I hear some speakers say the sound in words spelt this way as something like "nyi", and others seem to convert the "ん" sound into just a very indistinct, nasally sound (kind of like how some speakers do with the が sound), and others still seem to just say it like "ん・い". I don't think I've ever heard it said as に though.
The claims about increasing your reading skills are pure nonsense considering there isn't a single sentence in the entire deck. It won't increase your reading skills, it will just reduce your dictionary use. There's a big difference between learning a bunch of words out of context in Anki and being good at reading/listening.
>I got too much free time so I simply added another deck
Delete it and use that time to read and listen instead. It will benefit you far more.
Maybe I should've been more specific. What's the Standard Japanese way of saying them?
I assume some of the ways I've heard are how they're said by speakers of certain dialects, but not how they're supposed to be said in Standard Japanese. I want to know what the "proper" way of saying them is.
Wouldn't it be useful to know them all?
It seems like a detail you'd just pick up from context over time well enough. Small things like that, figuring out the minutiae of where words and phrases fall on the axis of standardized/unstandardized, are moreso things that you do when you're in the "mostly fluent and rounding out the edges" stage.
And I mean, if you're talking to people in Tokyo or whatever and you're saying some Kansai shit, people will probably find it endearing or interesting more than anything. They won't apply whatever stigma's attached to socially disadvantageous dialects to you. By the time you get to the point where anything's expected of you, like at the time when someone miiiiiiiight mistake you for a native speaker over the phone or something, you'll already know just from having years of experience.
What do you do to avoid JP study burn-out, DJT? How do you relax through the endless consecutive hours of grinding?
A couple of years, on and off. Time passes pretty fast at the end of the day though.
And I mean, I guess neural networks or someshit will eventually reach perfectly accurate translations but even that'll only get you so far, so if you're interested in it now then you oughta start now. You must look into your own heart to find whether it's worth it or not.
>I guess neural networks or someshit will eventually reach perfectly accurate translations
They come as far as they can, google translate is using them
its still not that great, they don't understand they just pattern match
and forget about jokes, references and innuendo
i started anki about 2 weeks after real kana so not quite 2 years
>Is it worth starting now?
of course, the guide is still there and so is japan
buy more figures
Learning a language is always worth it, assuming you have interest.
You have to be realistic though, that's the key. I think you'll notice that these threads seem like a revolving door, lots and lots of people talking about how they're just starting out, and a small group able to offer expert advice, even on a forum exclusively for mass weabooitry.
Japanese is generally regarded as being on the highest level of difficulty for English speakers, along with Arabic and Chinese. It's on the complete opposite side of the topological spectrum from English, and Kanji is a whole nother level of mother fuckery, you don't even know.
Still, it's far, far from impossible to learn. Tons of goony ass people with brains running on Mountain Dew and Fritos have managed to do it, why can't you?
Keep in mind a couple of things:
1: Learning a language is a very front-loaded task. The beginning is the hardest, which is one reason so many people give up after a week or so. Things get smoother the further you go, but with Japanese it does take a while (compared to, say, French or Spanish) to really get rolling.
2: You HAVE to be persistant. Your brain is a lot pickier about what it chooses to store than you might think. You'll spend hours with your nose buried in material, going over words over and over and over, only to completely forget most of it the next day. People on here use Anki, a spaced repetition system, which is what you need. You have to keep your new vocabulary fresh by going over it at well spaced intervals time and time again You have to trick your brain into believing that what you're feeding it is important enough to keep. I cannot stress enough how vital this is.
3: No matter what, you won't be fluent for years, and you'll never be a native speaker. It will take ages to get to a pont where you can even vaguely understand Japanese written or spoken, and many times that to even approach fluency. To reach a truly advanced stage you'll almost definitely have to actually be in Japan, at some point. It would take years upon years of being surrounded by Japanese text and speech at all times, and thousands of hours of conversation and listening, to reach a level approaching a native. You'll also never be able to confidently translate English into Japanese (at least enough to make it a job), since that requires an innate understanding of the language that only someone who learned it as a child has. There are limits.
4: This requires quiet a bit of free time. I'd say an hour a day at least, though it's more important that you get at least some in multiple times a day.
I finished core 2/6k within year 1, even with dropping down the new cards per day to only 15 for a good chunk of that.
Its now just mining, of which ive passed 8k for a total of 14k in the deck. 8k ish matures total
Started reading pretty late into core, maybe 1k matures. yotsuba was good though, especially with the reading pack
I add everything and anything, and while my retention isn't that great, its been dropping since i donated some blood
but it will average back to above 80% i guess
>Not using your brain power to blaze through JP study until you become fatigued.
>Not being a mental masochist with Japanese.
>Says I've fucked up.
I don't believe it's impossible to learn to translate English into Japanese. It's just a fucking language, there's no mysterious special power you need to be born into to use it.
What does the ため mean in this sentence? I understand what is going on, but I wouldnt know which word to translate it into or why its being used.
So you're saying the professional world demands native level in the target language rather than the source language? That doesn't make sense to me. Surely more mistakes would be made in misunderstanding the source than in communicating the same message to the translation, since you can always adjust the latter to your own level.
Yes, Japanese people can translate from English to Japanese, not from Japanese to English.
You can translate from Japanese to English, but not the reverse, at least in any serious capacity.
So you only used core 2k/6k the first year? I'm currently using standard 20 per day and started reading Yotsuba yesterday with the reading pack.
I know I know duolingo is shit for Japanese but I'm still curious just to see it. When I log in to check it out though it tells me it's only 67% developed and I can't access it. How are all these other people trying it out? Beta testers?
>but that decade of watching anime is helping with vocabulary a ton.
I found that it helped me more with grammar. I didn't pick up many words from anime, but I had a lot of "ohhhhhh, so that's what that means" moments when I read through Tae Kim.
My brain had registered a lot of the simpler constructions unconsciously just from me having heard them so much. Even if it didn't really understand what they meant, it had noticed the patterns and remembered them, so it was really easy for me to learn them after just reading the explanation and the example sentences.
>You HAVE to be persistant.
If you read things you're interested in, persistence takes care of itself. You will keep reading because you're enjoying the story and want to know what happens next and how it all ends.
That's why I don't like how some people in these threads try to force beginners into reading Yotsuba or Hanahira just because "they're easy". When someone is only reading X because someone/some dumb recommendation chart told them they should, they don't feel like they're reading because they want to anymore, and thus the reading becomes a chore and they don't want to do it. The only correct answer to the "I just finished Tae Kim/Genki/Core/[insert beginner resource here], what should I read?" question as far as I'm concerned is "whatever you want".
Not him, but I probably learnt more words from anime like hasami, megane, etc. to a point where I can understand what they are when I hear them.
Not familiar with the kanji for them at the moment, though.
Other words I'm currently learning I'm having a harder time with.
>Promoted by Satori Reader
Do mind-reading loli include?
It's not that you wouldn't be able to do professional, it's that you probably wouldn't make enough survive
Any interpreting gig that's okay with non-natives likely doesn't give much of a shit and will pay accordingly. For these jobs your people skills and likability matter far more than how many kanji you know
As for translating, speed is just as important as accuracy; if translating into your native is faster for you (like it is for 99% of people) then you're quite literally throwing time and money away when you accept any jobs that ask you to go in the opposite direction
>"whatever you want"
I tried reading something besides Yotsuba and it just won't work. The sentences are much more complex and it feels like I'm not improving my reading capabilities due to it.
I wasn't studying them with kana. The VN I read features a character who speaks in hiragana only. I had the right EPWing definition open, but rikaisama defaults to the kanji that's on top for the default dictionary. I usually pay attention to these things but this one just slipped past me. I noticed my error when I encountered the word again while reading today. I've been learning the word in anki for 8 days, so maybe it'll be alright in the end.
I understand that the general gist is that the character has no choice but to stay there, but my parser was automatically translating it as the former. Intuition took over and I thought it was the latter, so thanks for helping me.
Thanks, that's much clearer.
I've learned kana, done daily anki for 4 days and currently reading through tae kim. I've got around 2-3 hours a day to practice. Tell me the correct way and I'll take a screenshot of your post and in 3 months starting today I'll post my results.
Well, you have to use a degree of common sense too. If something turns out to just be way too hard for you (you can barely understand anything), then just put it on hold and try something else you're interested in. If you're learning Japanese, I assume it's because there's more than just one piece of Japanese media you have an interest in reading. Even if you're just in it for the porn, there's plenty of nukige and whatnot out there to read.
Context. Lots of British English accents/dialects do a thing called "H-dropping" which creates quite a lot of homophones*, yet it never causes any problems in comprehension because context makes it obvious which word is being said. Same goes for all the homophones in Japanese
Sorry to dump a few lines, I'm really curious about something.
I feel like there's a lot to unpack here and I want to make sure I'm getting it right. The character is asking about a maid service the other character uses. The second line feels like he's saying "Two people alone only just talking? It can't be...", but 'ただ' could also be 'free of charge' since he's talking about a maid service. And I'm guessing the last line is something like 'Do you not meet them anymore?".
Sorry for being annoying, I'll pay it forward when I git gud.
There are easy manga with furigana that aren't Yotsuba. There's so many that if you look it's impossible not to find something compelling.
You can preview random manga (to see if it's easy) by googling the name of the manga plus 立ち読み or 試し読み. For example:
You can also just browse those digital manga sites and look for interesting manga that way instead of starting with the name.
Once you find a manga that's fairly interesting, google its name plus "zip", or search for it on nyaa. You'll find a pirated version 90% of the time or more.
For listening, start with Japanese Pod 101 Beginner Season 1
For reading, start with NHK Easy
Every day listen to the podcast in your dead time (gym, driving, etc). Spend at MOST an 1.5 hrs on Anki and spend the rest on reading. Reading is priority. Track your words by mining with Rikaisama in firefox or you can get Lingq (It parses badly sometimes but it makes things simple). Switch up the content if you get bored, or if it becomes too easy. It's okay if you don't understand all the words, just try to get the jist of it. Quantity over quantity, immerse yourself. Don't study kanji. You won't "know Japanese" in 3 months, or 5 months, or 8 months, but that's okay, just enjoy learning.
し is a conjunctive particle and pretty much all conjunctions can be used at the end of a sentence with whatever would normally come afterwards left off and implied.
It's like ending a sentence with ～て, から, けど. It creates a nuance based on what you would naturally expect to come afterwards.
In this case I think it's just inverted: お前だし、もういいや
Ah, who cares. It's just you.
This is 100% the best explanation I've heard of it. You're the man.
>For listening, start with Japanese Pod 101 Beginner Season 1
>For reading, start with NHK Easy
how would you translate this?
That's bollocks. There are tons of people who have been living in foreign countries for years and still can't speak the language for shit, or speak it with broken grammar and thick accents.
This is just something you are telling yourself as an excuse for your own failings.
What does using 己 signify over 俺 and when is it used? If you've ever watched an anime you've surely heard おのれ screamed at someone, but what about using it to refer to yourself? I occasionally see it in VNs and tend to gloss over it but I'm want to properly understand it now.
>The entire Tennis Club shall pull together, redouble its efforts, and train even harder for the interleague match!
from animu. but the classical language is indeed intended in the scene. its from kill la kill.
I don't think I can stick with a podcast like that. The American guy is worse than me at pronunciation. However the NHK stuff is interesting.
>Spend at MOST an 1.5 hrs on Anki
Currently it takes me 35-45 minutes on a new day to solve my anki deck. I usually do anki an hour after I wake up then review forgotten cards a couple of hours before I go to bed.
If a writer writes ' 何言ってんだろう' in their little prelude before the story begins, are they saying "What am I talking about?". This introduction is super casual and is almost written like a blog.
Yeah, I use it. I like it but it isn't without problems. It makes reading on your phone really easy which is it's main advantage to me. I'll get some Japanese news on my phone, import it in Lingq, and it gives me easy word meanings, tracking, and audio. There's not really a rikaisama/anki import alternative for mobile.
The Japanese language did not evolve as did many other world languages. As far as we know, it appeared suddenly in it's completeness and ability to communicate. Thus it is thought that the language came from deity. Perhaps because of it's mystique, scores of Westerners have begun their study of this "infinite" language.
Well, no matter how it's read, at least it seems to have one very specific meaning, so I guess it's okay?
How does this even happen, though? Was there a big argument over how it should be pronounced?
Would it be correct to say that 家 said "いえ" is "house" where as "うち" would be more like "home". Meaning that your home is where you feel at home, and the house is just kind of somewhere you live.
Or if you're talking about someone else's house, you'd call it いえ because you don't have the emotional connection?
Or am I just overthinking and they're basically the same?
>why are you asking questions about Japanese in a thread for learning Japanese
Not that anon but I'm surprised you could even find the post button with your head so far up your ass.
If somebody is at the point in their studies where they don't know the difference between the two, how can you possibly expect them to understand a J->J explanation of it? Could you maybe adopt a trip so I can filter you? Your posts are distinct enough that everyone knows it's you anyway, might as well take the plunge.
so if google results are completely 100% incomprehensible input then they dont need to know what the difference between the two is because it doesnt help them in any way with understanding japanese and should be reading 絵本ｓ as a start to working their way up to acquiring language
why do you want people to hand out fish instead of nudge people toward learning how to fish
if you dont like the blunt truth then that just means its because it means something to you to read it
I'm 60 or so episodes into season one and I'm enjoying it so far. It's good for beginners. For example, this question >>17623586 was answered in one of the early episodes.
If you don't want insults thrown your way you should probably not post rude responses to polite questions from beginners.
Both words appear very early in core, so obviously new learners are going to be confused, but they aren't going to be at a level to understand a J->J explanation so of course they would ask the language learning community of their choice. When literally every response and piece of "advice" you give is literally just "learn Japanese and you'll know :^)" then you have to ask yourself why you're even bothering to respond in the first place.
That`s a terrible analogy, if you`re learning how to fish, the best possible thing is to have someone who will give detailed answers to the questions you have, like what bait to use in what situations. People don`t expect you to recreate the entire art of fishing from scratch.
i never said i dont want insults i just said yours was 下下 also you just basically told him to piss off and inquire elsewhere so youre also a hypocrite to boot
so basically youre telling me that someone who downloaded their flashcard starter pack is probably not going to start understanding japanese from it well ive been saying this forever so yeah agreed
if youre gonna start your post calling something terrible its prolly a good idea to not have your post actually be terrible
I wish i was full enough of myself to go into a thread for asking questions and make fun of people for asking questions.
im not making fun of anyone i am serious because its important
also i bet you cant rewrite your post in japanese so dont you have better things to do than to at best just post antagonistically and off-topic
Someone recommend me a novel in the library. I can't stop going back and forth everyday and I need to stick to one.
Preferably something slice of life-ish and not extremely dark.
A cute Light Novel is fine too
>tfw your mom gets your N2 certificate framed and puts it on the wall in the living room
In that case, say something like "Hey, the difference between these two words is X. If you're able to read Japanese well enough, here's how you can google this question."
Answering questions and being a dick aren't mutually exclusive.
your mum supports and loves you dude like that should give you the power to do anything in life dude dont waste all that mum energy go to your dreams
i think blaming the "guide" guy for not putting that in the guide when i post stuff like that fairly often in response to those types of questions is something you should do instead of criticizing me for not handing out a fish while doing nothing for anyone other than trying to get yourself morally higher than me which heres the dirty little secret you cant also yeah what this guy said >>17623943