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I stand with Turks today. 1. Russians gave the picture of the

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I stand with Turks today.

1. Russians gave the picture of the jet route. Who can guarantee it was legit?
2. Turks might havent warned the pilot serveral times, but only thing stays clear. If Russian jet breached Turkish territory for even one second, they had a right to shot it.
3. Turks are only country in nato with army enough to pose a threat to Russia, they need to defend the region


Turks were right and done good.
>>
>>51206148
>Turks are only country in nato with army enough to pose a threat to Russia

what about burger men?
>>
>>51206148
T-thanks lad
You will let us invade Vienna next time right ?
>>
>>51206246
Sorry I was thinking about europe, of course usa has the biggest army
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>>51206148
Right...

You know that Turks violated Greek airspace some 1500 times last year?
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>>51206246
A little busy at the moment
>>
Who wins in a war between Turkey and Russia?


The world.
>>
>>51206342
Preventing you from sacking Vienna was a mistake.
>>
>>51206434
bantz desu
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>>51206453
man I hated those trailers. You would have the most apocalyptic shits after eating there, but they were the only places available once you got bored of MRES or the same 5 meals at the DFAC
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>>51206148
Butthurt pole is retarded
>>
>pole stands with anyone that is against Russia

And all is right with the world.
>>
>>51206434
greeks do the same. and both sides are doing this since 1980's or something
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>>51206625
Moortugal is still third world and makes Turkey look like USA
>>
you stand with ppl who wish to flood yurop with brown islamic ppl then
shame
>>
>>51206148
>I stand with Turks
Me too. I bet on Turkey.
>>
are you ashamed to say you are the turk student in poland?why do you have to roleplay as a pole?
>>
>turks are only country in nato with army enough to pose a threat to Russia

Mehmet, is that you?
>>
>>51206614
From what I know, you never try American food outside of Europe. Tried KFC and BK in Morelia, felt like there was an emulsion blender up my ass both times. I was fine with mom and pop restaurants though
>>
>>51206625
>Butthurt pole

Damn, what are those wacky Westerners plays with in their beds nowadays...
>>
>>51206148
Do you really think we wanted to harm Turkey in anyway?
>>
>>51206699
Kek
Half of your people live in old ass comie blocks with no electricity and you come to try an banter
According to your retard logic is its alright to shot down a plane from a country that is helping in war
>>
>>51206882
Oh i get
Clever
>>
REMOVE K*RD
REMOVE SL*V
>>
Why do so many retards take RT as irrefutable fact
>>
>>51206912
No, nut it was their territory and they have a right to protect it. Simple as that.
>>
We need a few things...permanent NATO base in Poland...more tactical nukes in Turkey...Invade Sweden....
>>
>>51206994
Get it*
>>
>>51206148
Actually Turks gave the picture of jet route.
Also, who exactly will Turks defend from Russians? Christians they want to exterminate, like they did with Armenians and Greeks in Turkey?
>>
>>51206148
>I stand with Turks today.
You staying with turks allways, poland asshole. I am convinced at it now
>>
>>51207130
We saved Europe from them nigger. We just hate you even more.
>>
>>51207049
It is not anout defending any values but territory. If some military vehicle crosses your territory without approval it needs to be gone.
>>
>>51206997
REMOVE B*RGERS
REMOVE EV*RYONE
>>
Except Russia and China are bro's, and India is a wildcard. Also crazy Kim wants to attack murica and will if they get involved in a conflict against China. Basically everyone is holding their breath because it could easily end up Europe, Japan, south korea and murica against the much more powerful India, China, north Korea and russia. What could start as a simple turkey vs russia but legally that will draw EVERYONE in and fallout in real life will begin except this time, no vaults
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>>51207010
>they have the right to protect it
You only need to protect an airspace if the thing that is trespassing it is a treat witch in this case it clearly it was not
Plus you can protect your airspace fine but the russian plane got only was intercepted and shot down in syrian airspace
>>
>>51207130
>always

I know lad, tou have your own version of history. The true history starts in 1941, huh?
>>
>>51206148
dumb frogposter
>>
>>51207223
What? Who says that? You are allowed to protect your territory at all times.
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>>51207174
Save Europe against yoursalfe now
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>>51207199
REMOVE R*SKIES
REMOVE H*MANS
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>>51207189
Don't talk about stuff you don't understand. It's a matter of international law and you clearly don't know shit about it. Airspace is not your house, different norms apply, and different customs.
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Hell no, fuck turks!
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>>51207386
Airspace above the country belongs to jurisdiction of this country, thus leglislature of this country applies.
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>>51207300
If its no longer in your territory you have no right to shot it down
>your are allows to protect your territory at all time
Then it would be completly fine if i got in a plane crossed the borded and a spanish jet blew me out of the sky just because territory protection and further more protecting doesnt give you the right to shot it down on sight
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>>51207223
>violate sovereign airspace
>get warned 10 fucking times when you are getting close to airspace
>kept doing it
>get shot
>>
>>51207466
It would need to check the international conventions, are you sure that missile wasnt launched when the jet was above turkish territory?

Another thing which might suggest the answer. Putin said that he will not revenge, commence any actions against Turkey. It crealy shows that international law was on their side.
>>
Based Poland
>>
>>51207405
dumb frogposter
>>
>>51207444
International norms override national norms. By your logic some country could put ''genocide is legal'' in their law and go kill people. Are you a law student? If you don't know this you're probably a bad one.
Violation of airspace can be responded to with force of course, but legal custom dictates that it should be done only under extreme circumstances.
For example, if some plane entered Polish airspace, and then kept going towards Warsaw ignoring demands to turn back, you would be within your legal bounds if you shot it down, since it obviously can present a threat.
Some plane flying 3km over tiny strip of land on your border can't be compared with that.
Turks overreacted, and if they hit Russian plane outside of their own territory, which is a very real possibility since we're talking about 10 seconds and 3 kilometers, they committed aggression against Russia, and Syria too.
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>>51207663
>says dane
>>
why is Poland the most based non-Anglo country
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>>51207745
What do you mean? We never fought with Denmark or anything.
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>>51207497
>get warned 10 time by the turk
>information given by turkey
Yeah i bet that must be 100% not bullshit
Plus you can simply escort a plane out of your territory as do all civilized countries Nato countries do
oh wait i forgot the kebabs arent civilized
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>>51206949
>commie blocks
>no electricity
>portuguese ''education''
>>
>>51207738
>10 seconds and 3 kilometers
nope.

"this is turkish airforce on guard
you are approaching turkish airspace
change your heading immediately"

this was the warning. and they warned pilots 10 times in every 30 seconds which makes 5 minutes. starting with 30 km distance from turkey.
>>
Reminder that the russians said they would be flying there, but turks pretended they didn't knew anything just so they could shot a plane without consequences.
>>
How the fuck did you get to Poland Ahmed?
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>>51207598
Pretty sure they were in syrian airspace at the time
Just the fact of the pilots getting killed by rebels shows that they were not in turkey
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>>51207944
they said "no you're not" ten times
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>>51207738
First of all, you kńow shit. Insee it know. International norms do not override all national norms since constitution is a national norm. Almost every country has one.


What the fuck is custom is international law? Give me exact legal base of treating the customs law alike. Protip you cant, custom means shit.
>>
I hope the russkies nuke Turkey over night. That would be something to wake up to.
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>>51207993
They sent a picture of the route one day before and the turks agreed.
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>>51208071
Source. Also make it not a shitty /pol/ source
>>
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>>51207793
They could've warned it outside of their airspace if it was heading there.
>>51207880
It's irrelevant how many times it was warned. It barely scratched Turkish airspace, and went out in matter of seconds.
Now comes the problem: F-16 locks on him and fires a missile. If that missile chased it outside of Turkish airspace, and destroyed it over Syrian territory, you committed an act of aggression.
And this is precisely the reason why you don't fucking shoot at some plane barely entering your airspace.
When Soviets shot that Korean plane over Kamchatka (and it entered deeply in Russian airspace), that was seen as a scandal and a crime. And properly so.
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>>51208071
This is bs lad
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>>51207793
it only happened to baltics and finland. russians never dared to violate UK or US' airspace. each time they got close to them they get escorted out.
we should have done this when this shitstorm started. turkey is not banana republic. they violated our airspace many times we issued warning and ignored them 2 months. they thought they have right to violate our airspace.
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>>51208053
Prepare your ass for muslim zombie refugees.
>>
>>51207974
/this
i may not love russians but fuck turks and their isis leadership
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>>51208012
>what the fuck is custom in international law
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_international_law
Literally primary source of international law, along with treaties.
Educate yourself you fool.
>>
>>51208138
>you committed an act of aggression
And absolutely nothing will come of it.
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>>51208240
I'm not talking about that, but I'm glad we agree that Turkey could've committed an act of aggression. They most definitely acted like retards and probably went against international law even if they hit it over Turkey.
>>
NATO? More like GAYTO
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>>51208218
Are you joking right now?
Custom is the source of the law in minor cases. In this case it means nothing.

Again. Customs arent a source of law in any serious cases. You can use customs in for example defining the place of a frequent stay (this is sometimes done in private law conventions like eu convendtion 650/2012 about inheritance).

In this case, no custom applies. What is more even Putin did not say a word about any imaginary custom of yours and he has few good lawyers on his side.

I am not a specialist in public/military law, but claiming that customs can define the airspace is just silly.
>>
>>51208190
My fucking go you are dumb
I just told you that all the civilized nation escorted russian war planes out and you say that exact same thing
Point is you should have escorted the plane out of there insted of shoting it down
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>http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-34908469?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=565483e73a0000663f380a9c%26US%20confirms%20Turks%20warned%20Russia%20before%20shooting%20down%20jet%2615:39&ns_fee=0#post_565483e73a0000663f380a9c
>Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg backed Turkey's version of the story, and said that an allied assessment shows the Russian warplane did fly into Turkish airspace
>>
>>51207497
>SU-24 was inside your airspace for the seconds
>warned 10 times
>plane was shot down under Syria
Yeah...
Looks like that's time for Kurdistan people republic.
Or!
>>
>>51208536
I see you are not a specialist because you're literally claiming customary international law is used in ''minor cases''. You couldn't be farther from truth.
International customs and treaties formally have same strength. Of course in practice treaties are taken to be of higher strength.
You're thinking of customs in internal law. And you're correct.
But international law is something else.
>What is more even Putin did not say a word about any imaginary custom
Putin is claiming Turkey acted illegally though. Of course, he's also claiming Russian plane never even violated their airspace, so no need to talk about customs.
When you shoot down a foreign plane over another country, it's not a question of international customs, it's a fucking act of aggression.
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Russia invaded our airspace so many times already this year, why dont we shoot them down
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>>51208740
Because Turkey is a country of alpha males and your country is not.
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>>51208613
>Nato backed Turkey's version of the story
Oh, really?
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>>51208652
He is right tho. It was their jurisdiction,mtheir territory and their airspace. You crossed turkish airspace, this is beyond a doubt.
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>>51208769
kek. guess its true, they do make some grade A kebab here
>>
>>51208788
It was shot down under Syria and it crashed in Syria.
You can protect your territory in your airspace, not in another country's airspace. What a bullshit!
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>>51208870
>it crashed in Syria
Do you think missiles cause the plane to simply drop where it's hit?
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>>51208771
What this means, Ivan, is that Putin will hold some angry press conferences on TV and absolutely fuck all will happen. Not even the Turkish pipeline deal will be compromised because Putin is the dog and marionette of oligarchs.
>>
>>51208870
I wonder when the missile was launched tho.
>>
>>51206148
This. Thank you my dear Polish friend :3
>>
every European that is for Europe would say fuck the turks, fuck the turks all the way
>>
>>51208788
Please read what I wrote, you aren't right.
You know what you're saying?
Example: some man puts his foot through your house door, in a country where ''stand your ground'' exists, and you shoot him.
Are you legally right? It can be debated, but it's clear you abused your right.
Turkey abused it's right, that plane was flying over a tiny strip of land and it didn't carry flying towards Turkish interior, but exited Turkish airspace after 10-15 seconds.
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>>51208870
And how do you know that, Ivan? Did you happen to fly your own блoхoлёт nearby and saw the whole thing? It's pointless to debate this, besides, nobody is going to do anything about this anyway.
>>
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>that one butthurt pole who literally supports muslim terrorism because media taught him to unconditionally hate Russia
>>
>>51208897
No but the pilots landed in siryia and those jumped out before or during impact and they drop almost were they are
>>
>>51208923
Turkish pilot had only seconds for making a shot. Just think about that.
>>51208897
>Do you think missiles cause the plane to simply drop where it's hit?
It was hit in Syria's airspace. Even Turkey admitted that.
>>51208922
=(
>>
>>51208606
Go and suck some Russian dicks faggot. Maybe after that you will speak Russian better than English
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>>51209002
The absolutely delicious irony in this is that keks like you would be forced to the front to die in Kars protecting Turkey or face a long time in prison.
>>
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>>51209086
>It was hit in Syria's airspace. Even Turkey admitted that.
Proofs?
>>
>>51209116
are you muslim in canada? if so you can go fuck yourself
>>
>>51209017
No it isn't. You dont abuse your right if you have a right to shoot at this guy.

It your perception of the topic, based on no legal bases. Your perception doesnt create the law, legislator does.
>>
>>51209017
This is not an isolated incident. Turkey declared how will handle things in Syrian border back in 2012.
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>>51209086
>It was hit in Syria's airspace. Even Turkey admitted that.

Yeah I`m pretty sure they did
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>>51209032
>блoхoлёт
Stopped reading there.
>>
>>51208897
Do you think that parachuters just drifted 6 km towards Syrian territory where they conveniently got shot with short range weapons?
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>>51209147
No. I`m not. And you can suck some Kurdish dicks in Netherland ghettos
>>
>pole
>stands against russia
No surprise here.
You brainwashed cunts would support turkey in this dispute even if it was proven it took place over syrian airspace
>>
>>51209185
>>51209071
These are Kremlin lies. There is no proofs.
>>
>>51209140
Turkish map
>>
>>51209086
The hit generally isnt an issue. The launch is. If you looked at your penal code for example you would see this. Missile is just an object, a tool, the decission is where you should look at.

Maybe it wasnt kaunched on turkish soil, but I have seen a translation of what Putin said, he ususally has a good defence, now it wasnt clear. Especially when he has swirn that he will not revenge.
>>
>>51209222
It's just one guy who has been making anti-russian threads for months now. Most likely an ukr*inian immigrant.
>>
>>51209213
you are clearly a shitskin because of how you talk, or just genuine stupid, fuck off shill go suck turkish cock mehmet
>>
>>51206148
Poland don't say that cheeky bullshit please.
>>
>>51208606
there is a difference between getting close to airspace and violating airspace. russia didn't violate US or UK's airspace; therefore they escorted out when they were getting close to it. and they violated ours.
wonder what will happen when they actually violate US' airspace my moor friend.
>>
>>51209261
Kremlin manufactured map. This is not real proofs.
>>
>>51209243
Yeah, pure innocent turks and evil russkies. Just as always.
>>
>>51206148
Shouldn't you be cleaning toilets instead of posting troll threads on anime image forums?
>>
>>51206148
After we nuke bloody trashy bird you are next faggot.
>>
>>51209316
John, pls.
>>
>>51209156
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_of_rights
I really really suggest you to read more about law, I mean I myself am far from expert but here I literally have to teach you basic things.
And I just gave you this example to show you that EVEN if international custom didn't exist, Turkey abused it's right.
However, international custom is a real thing. And according to international customs, you don't shoot a plane down just because it scraped your territory.
>>51209158
It's not under your jurisdiction to decide such things. No country can avoid applying international law by claiming internal law is in conflict.
Of course, I'm simply giving you a point of view, international law is far less strict than internal law. Maybe some judges wouldn't agree with me, but I'm pretty sure most would.
>>
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>all this slander
It is OK though, my European brothers will stand with us and defend Turkey to the last man.

Allah bless the EU
>>
>>51209116
the muhamed plage has allready reached canada
>>
>>51209385
proofs?
>>
>>51209316
>Kremlin manufactured map
It's actually Turkish map. Russians claim they didn't enter Turkish airspace at all.
>>
>>51209185
You realize that Su 24 is a supersonic bomber with operation ceiling of 11000 meters? 6 kilos here and there mean nothing.
>>
Turkey should be nuked, wiped out of existence.
>>
>>51209465
More Kremlin lies. My state controlled media told me so.
>>
>>51209461
Proofs of what?
>>
>>51209421
fuck off to turkey then
>>
>>51209558
>Feigning ignorance
You have no proofs.
>>
>>51209325
Nope, just be objective for a while will you. I know Russian defence strategy, it did not change for centuries, you always claim to be attacked and innocent.

But this stupidity does not work in nowadays times.

The pilot violated turkish airspace and got shot.

I dont know military international law, but imagine a situation when Russian pilot dropped the bomb on Turkish soil.

Just hipotetically. Do you believe that in this situation turks wouldnt be allowed to shot the plane outside the border? If they werent, the pilot would be able to bomb the shit out of territory and run away from it milion times without a response.

It isnt logical.
>>
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>>51209261
>we never entered Turkish airspace
>>
>>51209535
Well done citizen, you're impervious to communist propaganda!
>>
>>51209243
Mfw jonh why you got to be so dense
Lets think for a bit
If the pilots were shot and killed by rebels they must have landed in syria whats that jonh you ask how i arrived at this conclusion well its very simple because there are no rebels in turkey
>>
>>51209416
>It's not under your jurisdiction to decide such things.
In international law reciprocity is the basis. Syria committed an act of aggression under the rules you explained and Turkey considered that an attack and bid to respond.
>>
>>51209653
>entered turkey airspace for 10 secconds
Come on germany you really going to side with the kebab
>>
>>51209653
>we never entered Turkish airspace
1. I never said that.
2. It's turkish map. I have no idea if it's trustworthy or not.
>>
>>51209646
>you always claim to be attacked
To be fair Russians were mostly attacked historically.
>military international law
This isn't military international law.
>the pilot would be able to bomb the shit out of territory
Exaggeration. If it kept going towards Turkish interior, like I said, we wouldn't be talking about this. Turks would then have full right to shoot it down, after repeated warnings to leave their airspace.
But once again, since they shot it while it was on exit course, and most probably over Syrian territory, this was an act of aggression.
>>
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>>51209646
Countries violate each others airspaces all the time. It's basically the air forces banter.
The proper reaction is to intercept and escort the plane out of your airspace. Obviously, it's too hard to comprehend for some.
>>
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>>51209689
>If the pilots were shot and killed by rebels they must have landed in syria whats that jonh you ask how i arrived at this conclusion well its very simple because there are no rebels in turkey
>>
>>51209769
he's probably a turk in germany
>>
>>51209691
Yes I remember that. And that was an act of aggression.
However, this was an act of aggression too. This is not reciprocity. Two wrongs don't make one right.
>>
Russia announced that it was cutting military contacts with Turkey. Also he said that deploy off the coast of Syria missile cruiser "Moscow", armed with, among others, the missile defense system fort, which is equivalent to the land of S-300.

- Russia will respond to the shooting by Turkey of its military aircraft on the Syrian-Turkish border between
Given the experience of working Vladimir Putin's special services you can think of that "response to Russia will be balanced and precise".

Turkey currently derives profits from brokering the sale of oil produced by the Islamic State. Therefore, Russia can destroy the oil infrastructure in an Islamic state. Turkey conducts extensive financial interests in Russia that could be affected - as well as its tourism.

Russian bombers operating in Syria will be escorted by fighter planes that can shoot down Turkish F-16.

by google translate, because i'm too lazy ;D
>>
>>51209803
pls, stop being so childish. That's not funny.
>>
>>51209535
mccarthy would be proud
>>
>>51209784
Exactly.
And only if that plane keeps heading into your airspace, ignoring warnings, you can shoot it down.
>>
>2015
>being a nato citizen
o am i laffin
enjoy getting conscripted to fight ebul poutine
>>
>>51209781
Russians werent attackeed historically more than others. Just talk to any Russian, he will tell you that for example napoleon wanted the russia and it was his main goal to fuck Russia up.

They just cant understand that russia is just another country on the way to be fucked up. Nothing special about it, just being on the east.

I have read Tolstoy, I know their perception more less.
>>
>>51209784

Except Turkey has been explicitly saying they were going to shoot Russian planes that were violating their airspace.

They've been warned numerous times, and I quite frankly can't blame Turkey for the actions taken. They have a right to protect their own airspace, and Russia has been playing with fire regarding this issue for years.
>>
>>51209892
Well, I surely hope that russian fighters will soon start shooting down turkish aircraft heading into syrian territory.
>>
>>51209315
>whend they violate US airspace
The opposite already happend during the cold war the US violated russian airspace and they got shot down so the US had to trade a russian spy for the arrested pilot
>moor friend
We kicked your sorry asses out of here 900 years ago , came on kebab give it up
>>
>>51209964
I never claimed Russians were special, just that they were mostly attacked, they weren't attackers.
You have a negative perception of them and I understand that since they did your people wrong, but let's not get carried away here.
I noticed you Poles are insanely narrow-minded, you only observe how things reflect on yourselves. It's like you would see entire world burn if only it would profit Poland in a minor way.
>>
turks are cockroaches
>>
>>51209849
>Two wrongs don't make one right.
It's an area of politics. There is no way this wasn't a Russian bluff. It's an excuse to make their own rights now >>51209854
>>
>>51209854
>Russian bombers operating in Syria will be escorted by fighter planes that can shoot down Turkish F-16.

I hope to god those retards don't wander into another country's airspace and actually start fucking dogfighting with others. These madmen really want WW3
>>
>>51210010
Once again.
I even found an original pic.
That was a clear act of aggression from Turkey.
Look at the map.
http://i.cnnturk.com/ps/cnnturk/100/770x0/56543bab40201193242bc350.jpg
>>
>>51210010
Except that there is still no info about where did the plane got shot. Its wreckage landed in Syria, pilots that parachuted landed in Syria.
>>
>>51210073
U2 case was a sort of scandal you know? It was seen as rash decision.
And that plane was shot over middle of USSR. Not on it's borders.
I believe they shot a US bomber once right on the edge of their airspace, but can't remember when exactly.
>>
>>51210098
I'm just talking about law though.
But I just want to say you appear like a normal guy, unlike shitload of your compatriots. Glad there's still normal people there.
>>
Why is it that Americans and Poles, Ukrainians are pro Turkey and west Europeans are against in this case?
>>
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>>51210083
>. It's like you would see entire world burn if only it would profit Poland in a minor way.
He knows our secret...
he must disappear...
>>
>>51210126
You know the rules, you talk shit you get hit.

It seems to apply to planes too.
>>
>>51210203
They take RT as fact
>>
>>51210203
Because western europeans are pussies and we dont give a fuck, tyring to be objective. Same applies to syrian refugees problem.
>>
>>51210098
You realise that your government is muslim, and therefore retarded? They aren't capable of making rational decisions.
>>
>>51210203
I'm against it. I think Turkey is 100 percent retarded and in the wrong for this.
>>
>>51209942
>portugal is painted the darkest colour on that map
Not sure if that is a thing i should be mad or proud about
>>
>>51210203
cause western euro aren't butthurt about communism
>>
>>51210218
>Poland in 20's and 30's
>doing anything wrong
Pick one and only one.
>>
>>51210221
Okay, that's time to shot down every NATO plane in Syria airspace, cause president Assad never asked for them.
You know the law, man.
>>
>>51207377
REMOVE R*MOVE
REMOVE *DD
>>
>>51210401
It is Assad's call, not yours buddy
>>
>>51210401
Us constantly calls off bombing missons because ivans are in the way
>>
>>51210142
They also shot down a korean airliner once
But that one was also pretty deep in their airspace
These incidents happend from time to time durring the cold war and if they didnt went to war over them back then i sure as hell they arent going to war over this one
>>
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god bless america
>>
>>51210542
Yes and that incident was a fucking scandal. Rightfully so.
They actually presumed it was a spy plane since Americans used spy planes looking like civilian airliners.
I mean point of this is just to show how extreme measure is shooting down a foreign plane flying over your country.
There was that German guy who flew in Cessna from Berlin or somewhere to Moscow and landed there, and everyone was afraid to give order to shoot it down.
>>
>>51210481
We have more tights to be in Syria than US.
>>51210478
Time to give some C-300 and buks to Assad, I guess.
>>
>>51210013
Russian AF man said so.
>>
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>>51210552
>>
Poland has sink really low in its butthurt. This is quite frankly sad and embarrassing.
>>
>>51209496
They are talking about the pilots who pressed the eject button like every fucking pilot does when a missile blows up half their plane. They don't float 6 kilometers.

These pilots ended up over 6 km from the Syrian border. Who knows how mucher further than 6 km they were from the alleged territorial encroachment. It is probably closer to 10 km considering the Turkish map.
>>
>>51210694
Well I don't know where do pilots usually end up after catapulting, but that seems weird as fuck.
>>
>>51206148
>but only thing stays clear. If Russian jet breached Turkish territory for even one second, they had a right to shot it.
One thing is clear. Russian bombers breach our airspace in the Arctic countles of times, and we've never shot down one of their planes.
>>
>2015
>trust in turkish information at all
>>
>>51210010
>I'm going to do x to you unless you do y
>somehow telling them this justifies x
>>
thats cool, but can somebody explain why those fucking kebabists killed the pilots?
>>
>>51210694
they were shot to death by the drukas in syria mid air, who knows where their corpses landed.

>pissing off the bear
>>
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>>51210691
lmao the irony
have a good look at your picture and the one you quote
>>
>>51210765
>countles of times, and we've never shot down one of their planes
why
>>
>>51210876
mb because they are harmless
>>
>>51210857
I don't really cannot understand this picture.
So turk is monkey and obongo is monkey. And white man washing hands.
>>
>>51210857
>>
>>51210815
Because they are moderate opposition anon. So they just shot them. If they weren't moderate, they'd burn them alive or drive a tank over them.
>>
>>51210815
>be Syrian Turkmen
>Russians bombard you all day and night for no reason
>see one Russian fighter jet shot down in your territory

hm........I wonder why piotr
>>
>>51210674
Mate just do it, from my perspective as a Pole it is the best thing you can do. Just dont forget to bomb ukraine meanwhile
>>
>>51210972
>Turkmen
> no reason

No reason to be a turkmen
>>
>>51210876
Because Canada realizes Russia doesn't want to sneak attack with one bomber and start WW3.

Turkish pilots think a 15 second encroachment from a single bomber that has flown a similar route for three months heading back into Syrian territory, is there to destroy Turkey.

It is because Edrogan wants to protect the islamist "FSA" and "Army of Conquest" since Russia is bombing them.
Edrogan Turkey literally arm terrorists, let them through the border, and then try protecting them by declaring (and now upholding) no fly zones over Syrian territory.
>>
>>51210972
>for no reason
Mehmet, please.
>>
>>51210815
lets think about a timeline of probably what happened

- two russian jets are leaving Syrian territory into Turkish territory that just so happens to jut out into Syria
- Turkey issues multiple warnings not to progress any further
- the Russian jets ignore this and enter Turkish territory
- one is shot down, the other escapes
>as the pilot parachutes out, he is killed in Syria by Turkmen rebels who just so happen to know who and where he is mid-parachute

the green text is the part I'm having trouble understanding
>>
>>51210815
are you for real?

i'm sorry for those pilots families but getting shot down in an environment like that is a death sentence. they kill any pilots that bail.
>>
>>51210972
>no reason

THEY ARE MODERATE INNOCENT PEOPLE TRUST ME GUYSSS
>>
>>51210674
Deploying S-300 to Syria under Syrian control or as permanent deployment would certainly provoke Israel to attack.
>>
>>51210972
Oh, these fucking international laws about shot pilots (yes, they exist), who needs them, yeah?
>>
>>51211000
If I were Putin, I would do it.
But he is a coward.
>>
>>51211073
That's pretty weird too.
>>
>>51211073
One caveat.

The Russian planes were in Turkish airspace for 10-15 seconds and were flying towards Syrian territory.

There was no threat from the planes.

Or do turks really think two Russian planes are gonna destroy Turkey?

You can issue a million warnings, but that doesn't make Turkey's actions legal.
Shooting down another plane even if it illegally entered your airspace is illegal if that plane is shot down in airspace that is not yours.
>>
>>51211147
The rebels are not signatory to Geneva convention, that's why if captured they are not treated a POW. International treatise about war come in two forms, a treaty that limits to what signatories can do to each other and how they will behave towards each other and treaties which the signatory agrees to not do something. Geneva conventions are the first type.
>>
>>51211205
Putin isnt a coward, we here dont underestimate him. But he based his power on a sense of independence and this drags down your country.

I mean we are just EU lapdog while Russia is truly independent, am I right?
>>
>>51211030
>>51211048
>>51211094
m8, I thought the Russians were fighting ISIS?

http://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/assets/4232239/Syria_areas_of_control_March_2014.png

I don't see any ISIS close to Turkey's border

>>51211147
I don't condone the murder of those pilots, but what the fuck were you expecting? Syria is literal hell, they will murder anybody, nobody gives any fucks about international laws.
>>
>>51206148
Where is the love?
>>
>>51211267
>The Russian planes were in Turkish airspace for 10-15 seconds
17 seconds actually

the rest I don't care about; I don't think either side is blameless in the initial strike against the jet. The Russian jets were no threat so they should've been escorted out, but they shouldn't have disregarded the warnings not to enter Turkish territory.
>>
>>51211287
>tfw "moderate opposition"
Just admit that they are the ordinary terrorists already.
>>
>>51211287
That doesn't matter, those are jus cogens norms. You can't shoot POW's. Rebel movements and non-recognized states must respect them.
If they don't, they aren't rebels or non-recognized states but criminal organizations.
>>
>>51210972
piotr is polish name, not czech
>>
>>51211334
Russians are bombing pretty much everyone opposed to Assad except Kurds. Including ISIS.
>>
>>51211307
Independent from whom?
From common sense?
mb
>>51211334
>I don't condone the murder of those pilots, but what the fuck were you expecting? Syria is literal hell, they will murder anybody, nobody gives any fucks about international laws
I just want you to admit that there is no moderate opposition in Syria.
>>
>>51211334
We fight for Assad.
>>
>>51210857
somebody else made that i didnt bother to change flags
>>
>>51211205
>start nuclear war over a couple pilots who did fuck up technically
>coward

Russis is supposedly responding with big consequences. Nuclear war or a coventional war over a pilot would put Russia automatically into the wrong category.
Right now a lot of people are pissed at Turkey. If Russia goes to war everyone will be pissed at Russia, and you will pay.
These pilots knew the risks.
>>
>>51211446
Independent like sovereign. Able to make fully own decission.
>>
>>51211073
>he is killed in Syria by Turkmen rebels who just so happen to know who and where he is mid-parachute
Bad luck,

>>51211088
What enviorment? are those Turkmen affiliated with IS?

>>51210972
Mehmet my son, Russa pilot is falling down from sky.
Will you act like civilized human and take him POW?
Or will you shoot him down for the lulz?
>>
>>51206148

NEVER TRUST A POLE
>>
>>51211431
Pyotr is a greek name
>>
>>51206614

It could be all the anti laxative effect from the MRE's that remained in your colon suddenly coming out at the same time with the unhealthiness of fast food and mixing together inside of you.

Scientifically put it could be a propulsion system for NASA.
>>
>>51211518
PAY DEBTS
>>
>>51211544
What I meant, Piotr is polish version of that particular name.
>>
>>51211544
its not, greek is petros and its the original

>>51211589
mehmet my son
>>
>>51206148
>I stand with Turks today.
Poland?
Serious?

A Plane isnot a car and the borders in that area aren't streight. You can't shoot a plane for almost nothing.
It's just heart pride of Erdogan because the Russians bomp the guys he equipped with Arms, training, hospitals and Intelligence...

DO YOU BELIEVE IN MODERATE MUSLIMS REBELLS?

Russia doesn't and so shouldn't you.
Allahu Akbar by DJInapropriate

https://open.spotify.com/track/4SKEapWNh4oPArBkLqz5DS
fun fact about Germany.
#1 of Spotifies "Viral 50 Germany" playlist is
"Alah "
>>
>>51211334
The "moderate" opposition in the North of Syria is ISIS in Russia's view. Or is Al-Nusra moderate?
People need to understand that ISIS is a name. The name of Jihadism in Russia's view.

Russia has not attacked the rebels in southern Syria on the Daraa front. Why?
Because these are the true semi-moderate rebels.
>>
>>51206148
>If Russian jet breached Turkish territory for even one second, they had a right to shot it.
To be honest, he's right about that
>>
>>51211501
I don't think so.
All our money are in the western banks
All government children live in the West.
>tfw "independent"
>>51211498
I would recall our embassy from Turkey and ask turkish one to move out for the beginning. I would shot down any turkish plane in Syrian airspace without any word saying for the second.
It's not about nuclear war, man. It's about blood for blood.
>>
What a joke. Everyone just "stands" with the side they like more as a country, they don't give a shit about the details. It reminds me of the Palestine/Israel conflict. Jews will defend whatever we do, Muslims and their leftist euro brothers will defend whatever they do. It's just how it works.
>>
>>51211369
>>51211387
You can call them what ever you like, they are not "soldiers" protected nor bound by Geneva convention which forbids shooting down of parachuting downed pilots. Nothing we have seen in the war shows us that any party acts in accordance with Geneva conventions regarding the treatment of enemy combatants. It might be traditional but its not mandatory. If SAA captures a rebels and shoots him its not a war crime just an extra judicial killing and the revers applies as well.
>>
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>>51206148
>>
>>51206625
This.

We need to sack Erdogan and install a sane Government in Turkey. CIA has realy lost it's edge
>>
>>51211698
you fucking jew i hope you wont betray us one more time and stand with the mudslimes
>>
>>51208138

The Turkish military say that as the jets approached their air-space they issued warnings; 10 in total, over a period of five minutes.

"The data we have is very clear. There were two planes approaching our border, we warned them as they were getting too close," one official said.

"We warned them to avoid entering Turkish airspace before they did, and we warned them many times. Our findings show clearly that Turkish airspace was violated multiple times. And they violated it knowingly."
>>
>>51211694
Not really, no but remember whatever tou think of Putin he brought you back from late 90s which were shit times for you and this is the fact.

I dont like Putin, because I am a Pole but I do respect him.
>>
>>51211719
What's going on here?
>>
>>51211503
>What enviorment?

A warzone.

>are those Turkmen affiliated with IS?

Does it matter? They could be for all I know. It's always been (historically, since aerial bombing was invented) extremely dangerous for downed pilots.
>>
>>51211809
Future
>>
>>51211776
You don't deserve shit you fucking Greek, all throughout your history Jews have been the recipients of hate from your backwards ass country and people. Shut the fuck up and get nuked you fucking Nazi dickslurper.
>>
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>>51211809
art
>>
>>51211677
No he's not. There's no legal right to do that. According to customary international law unless you are at war or under imminent threat shooting down another plane is illegal.

It doesn't matter if Turkey warned a million times. There was no sign that Russia and Turkey were hostile to each other or were about to go to war. Even after the shootdown they don't even act like they are going to war.

The Russian pilots were in Turk airspace for 17 seconds over a tiny valley that juts into Syria. The Turks had no justification under international law.
>>
>>51211756
You do understand that CIA is led by people who started their careers killing Russians. They are more likely to coup Merkel because she is to close to Russia than Erdogan. So far Turkey has done nothing which contradicts US long term objectives and that's all that matters.
>>
>>51211809
shitposting trinity with the nuclear winter approaching in the background
>>
>>51211756
>CIA has lost the edge
The KGB or what ever its called now must have a plan for that
>>
>>51211788
>I dont like Putin, because I am a Pole
Lol, what he did to you?
>>
One thought crossed my mind, what if Russians provoked this intentionally?
Turks appear like fools, they are already condemned even in Western circles, and surely Erdogan's connection with rebels in Syria and ISIS in particular will now come to spotlight.
In exchange, Russian now has almost free hand to do whatever the fuck they want in Syria.
Just a theory.
>>51211712
I don't call them whatever I like, international law does. These people aspire to be recognized as ordered group of people, not thugs. They can't do things like this, no one can, some legal norms are considered inherent to civilized society and disrespecting them WILL cause sanctions.
As I said earlier, some crimes are crimes whoever does them. You can't put in your constitution that genocide is legal.
>it's not a war crime
It is a war crime.
You aren't talking about WW2 period where Germans used that argument to kill Soviet POW's.
After WW2, international law changed. Some norms bind everyone, even if you don't sign them, even if you disagree with them.
>>
>>51211903
He interferes with USA-German interests, obviously.
>>
>>51211867
so you're telling me that according to int law russia can fly jets over the entire US and they'd be right to expect it to not get shot down.
>>
>>51211939
Why do you care?
>>
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>>51211856
At least when the nuclear holocaust comes we'll rest easy knowing that humanity has finally reached its' cultural peak
>>
>>51211903
Putin?

Putin aim is to create Russia as a military empire not economical one. If he needs this military it means he wants to use it.
>>
>>51211694
I would agree that that is the blood for blood morality.

But an eye for an eye leaves the world blind. I expect that any Turk plane that enters Syria in the future will be shot down, but announcing it is just provocative.

These two pilots, as hard as it sounds, are not worth shit in geopolitics. Turkey is a Russian interest. Turkey is the key to beating ISIS and protecting Assad.
Messing with Turkey anymore is just asking for more Russian deaths, and Syrian deaths in the future.

If the Russians hadn't technically entered Turk airspace, then I would agree with you.

Give the Russian government a little to form a proper response to Turkey.
>>
>>51211976
Nope,american airforce should push it out.
That's common practice.
We did it with americans, they did it with us.
>>
>>51211839
you fucking ungrateful jew, we fucking saved the fucking jews living in greece from the nazis and you repaying it by always supporting the fucking mudlsime turks
fucking faggot
>>
>>51211781
Dude, shooting down a foreign plane is a serious thing. Why must I repeat this 100 times? Read the thread.
You are allowed to shoot a plane AFTER it enters your airspace, and then keeps going inward.
Like if Canadian plane entered US airspace and then went towards Washington, ignoring calls to change course and leave airspace.
Russian plane literally flew 3 (three) kilometers of Turkish airspace.
In fact, it's quite possible it was shot down (hit) over Syrian airspace. That practically means Turks committed aggression against both Syria and Russia.
>>
>>51211976
> they'd be right to expect it to not get shot down
Yes, they would be expected to be intercepted and escorted out, not fired at after 10 seconds.
Russia and USA constantly violate each other airspaces, but I understand that it's not something a mudshit living in Bulgaria would know.
>>
>>51211839
still salty about seleucus?
maccabees saved your culture anyway
>>
>>51211992
Because we are vassal of USA-Germany.
>>
>>51211698
It is an old Tradition to probe Nato or Russian airspace and get escorted "home" by the otherside.
No one shoot planes so sharp at the border that they not even fall on your own territory.

Erdogan is a mad man.
>>
>>51211814
>A warzone
I was serious, which group controls the place?

>Does it matter?
If it was not IS or some other snackbars then yes it does.
>>
>>51211287

Not to mention the turks allege the russians had been using cluster bombs.
>>
>>51211976
No. If the armed jet flew over America in a provacative manner for more than say a minute or in the direction of an important base/government building then it is legal to shoot it down. You require a "threat" to be legally allowed to shoot down the plane.

But a 17 second violation over a small valley that juts into Syria by two planes isn't a fucking "threat."

Under Turk law it is legal. But Turk law is worth shit under Erdogan. Legality does not always make righteousness.
>>
>>51212066
>Turkey is the key to beating ISIS and protecting Assad.
Definitely not.
>>51212066
>Give the Russian government a little to form a proper response to Turkey.
I don't believe in Putin. He is a coward.
I hate all this revenge stuff, you know.
But when a man/a country never apologize for their action, they have to be punished.
>>
>>51212078
Saved what you dumb fucking greek cunt, 80% of them died under Nazi occupation. Today you're no less than the most anti-semetic country in all of Europe, while you have literal neo-nazi holocaust denying parties in your government.

Shut the fuck up, really. You're not worth more than the Muslims.
>>
The English in this fucking thread makes me want to kill myself.
Fucking MIDF fuck off
>>
>>51211923
If international law had any bite Assad would have been removed from power for killing his own people when they asked for elections. But as I said nothing in this shows any limitation. SAA drops barrels filled with explosive on civilians. SAA and ISIS used chemical weapons. SAA treats rebels as criminals there for Rebels treat SAA the same, Russians joined SAA so they get the same treatment. The shooting of pilots was an emotional decision, if anyone with any sense of command was there they would have captured them and traded them.
>>
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>>51211976
Okay since by now I presume you people are fucking retarded I drew it for you.
>>
>>51212271
The fact that sanction doesn't come doesn't negate the existence of law.
By your logic you could say ''some guy murdered 20 people but he wasn't sentenced, that means murder is okay!''.
No it's not.
Also, I hope you're not trying to use ''moderate rebels'' card. None of Assad's opponents are moderate. They are all fair game.
Sadly, Assad appear to be the most normal force in Syria right now.
>>
>>51211887
Erdogan is a trojan horse of the forces of Chaos, even CIA must see it.
We need to get rid of this marauder.
We allmost had Christianity united against muslim terror and then this asshole destroyed everything.
He will be removed!

>>51211887
Fodes e caralho
FSB was realy good in Crimea.

I'm thinking about the Crimean tartares that cut them crimeans powerlines off...is it also the work "Insane Erdogan".
>>
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Guys.

Convince me this isn't some prelude to World War 3 shit.
>>
>>51211939
We have interrests?

I hope we defend them with international militarry bases and a big warmachine....
>>
>>51212444
Neither Hussein Obama nor Putin are mad enough to use nuclear weapons. So no WW3 m8.
But Hillary is mad though.
>>
>>51212220
Can you provide a link to the international law thing regarding protocol? I'm looking but can't find it. I believe you, would just like a source for my own purposes.
>>
>>51212258
you fucking jew, if most jews are like you no wonder so many people worldwide hate you
>>
>>51212165
It was snackbars, who in Russia's view are ISIS (they're esentially correct).

ISIS is a name for Jihadism.

>>51212224
Putin is a lot of things, but he is no coward. The man's amazing foreign policy has all of NATO on edge because him and his policy makers are willing to do almost anything for Russia.

Russia will respond with big consequences. But smart consequences hurt Turkey and not Russia. Dumb consequences hurt both.
>>
>>51212444
Russia is too weak to retaliate
>>
>>51212444
How many planes and drones of the Russias can Erdogan take down, before Russia started an unprovoked attack against NATO?
>>
>>51212485
But I never said anything about a nuclear war.
>>
>>51212550
No WW3 without nukes.
>>51212526
It's weak to retaliate directly. But it's perfectly capable of retaliating in another way. For example, Kurds.
>>
>>51206148
I agree, if the plane was in Turkey's air space, Turkey had the right to shoot it down. The scum shooting the pilot as he was parachuting down, however, is not at all acceptable.
>>
>>51212507
We don't hate them. I have only met one jew in my entire live, and he was totally ok.Imagine a stereotypical Russian chessgenius.
>>
>>51212526
He can support the Kurds (who by the way have a lot of sympathy from the west too). That could really fuck up Turkey's game.
Just supporting the Syrian kurds more aggressively would be major blow against Turkey.
>>
how many nato allies can be counted on to side with turkey?
>>
>>51212617
at one time in history you tried to exterminate them
>>
>>51212587
>No WW3 without nukes.
lol
WWIII will be faught without nukes!

That's what we use computers and social networks and false information for.
We all trust informartions that reach us via unsecure electronic devices...
>>
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>turkey is EU/US pawn since cold war
>russians send warplanes to help out based soviet assad
>clearly endangers long term goals of 3-letter agencies to destabilize the region
>t'rkroaches acting for western interests to maybe one day join the EU

am i missing something?
>>
>>51212526
Deppend if Nato back turkey up then yes russian can do shit
But if turkey continous to do stupid shit like this and Nato starts not giving a fuck the we would have kebabs cooked a-la T-90
>>
>>51212683
>at one time in history you tried to exterminate them
You think thats why they are as rare as blue whales?
>>
>>51212506
http://mobile.todayszaman.com/op-ed_what-does-international-law-say-about-the-downing-of-the-turkish-jet-by-i-brahim-kaya-_284711.html

He's a Turk, and he cites his stuff with links.
It's also in the first link on google if you type "international law on airspace encroachment/violation."
>>
>>51212587
>No WW3 without nukes.

I'd say it's more likely. If it happens, it wouldn't be some kind of existential fight to the death. Cleaning up after nuclear attack is too expensive. Conventional warfare is deadlier than ever and can leave infrastructure more or less intact.
>>
>>51212507
>treat my people like shit for a millennium now?
>be racist, retarded bigots towards jews even today who are such fucking hicks they believe the reason they are in debt is because the jews took their munnies
>DUR WHY DONT YOU LIKE ME??? FUCKING JEWS

Fuck off you disgraced country. Goddamn your country is fucking crumbling and you still find it in you to waste your time on hating minority groups. Israel is ten times the country yours is because we aren't lazy fucking greek niggers pieces of shit.
>>
>>51212615
That's not how things work.

http://mobile.todayszaman.com/op-ed_what-does-international-law-say-about-the-downing-of-the-turkish-jet-by-i-brahim-kaya-_284711.html
>>
>>51212730
i didnt say you succeeded, i said you tried (and failed)
>>
>>51212705
Yes, you will pay them trillions of euros in aid when they join the EU.
>>
>>51206148
>army smaller than britain, france and germany
only country with army enough to pose a threat to russia
>>
>>51212587
Like what convincing them they'll make Kurdistan a reality? Giving them guns and Erdogan reason for ethnic cleansing?

>>51212516
Well if it was radical Islamists then case closed.

>>51212715
Turkey is too big to be waged war against.
>>
>>51212740
Thank you. I was googling "International law regarding airspace violation"
>>
>>51212715
Seriously, thats a stereotypical Turkish and Russian Migrant behaviour thing....
They are exactly represented by the behaviour of their countries in that crisis.
And Turkey relies on the protection of it's family to not get retaliated...
>>
>>51212771
lol, wtf r u talking about? get your facts straight next time
>>
>wahh le ebul Russians lie
>wahhhhh le Syria is Turkish clay
>wahhhhhhhhhh I'm a big fucking cukk
>>
>>51212378
The lack of sanctions does indicate that the law is absent. If I kill someone and nothing happens to me, and next guy kills someone and nothing happens to him you would be stupid to think that you killing someone will have consequences for you. If there is no authority than obeying laws puts you at a disadvantage.

Weather they are moderate for you or me is irrelevant. I don't care who governs Syria so long it doesn't affect me. If Al Qaeda takes over and implements Sharia in Syria that's their choice so long as they don't use Syria to attack outside of the country I don't care if the people don't want them let them rise up again and force them out. And Assad is the worst choice possible, he had control over the country and lost it, he is a sectarian and at war with a large portion of his own people. IF he wins all the refuges will stay in Europe and we will see another war in a decade and many more terrorist attacks. And certainly many of the rebels are more "moderate" than Assad.
>>
File: kebabistan.jpg (601KB, 1366x768px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
kebabistan.jpg
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T U R K
U
R
K
>>
>>51212792
Well the were 10% of population...
But it was a dick move to kill them. Still internal matter ...nothing the world could have questioned.
>>
>russia dint du nuffin wrong
lovin it
>>
>>51212922
9/11
>>
>>51212814
>murrican education
>>
>>51206148

Seriously, is this one fucking polish guy shitposting all day everyday or are all polish posters mad as fuck toward Russia?
>>
>>51212771
They blame Germany for them beeing in debt.
Although the people they were most in debt was Portugal, Itally and France! And NOT Germany.
>>
>>51213024
Russia shouldn't have get shot by Turkey. Turks are just bulliing Russia.

Christian Unity!
>>
>>51212705
>am i missing something?

you are like 10 years late if you think that turkey is western pawn
>>
>>51213030
france is the only one who is not bullying us
>>
>>51212820
You can just take a province or two blockade all of turkey sea access and bomb the shit out of the and just wait until they start running out of stuff
War of a atrition may take longer but history has proven time after time that it works well
>>
>>51213024
Hivemind. But honestly, this is simple.

You violate airspace tou ger shot, what is there to be argued about.
>>
>>51206434
Mehmet doesn't care. They've been violating Greeks for centuries without any serious repercussions, they don't realize that they are about to learn what happens to genocidal supremacist maniacs.
>>
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>>
>>51213119
see >>51212220
>>
>tfw no gf
>>
>>51213120
we cant do anything because we are both NATO and USA is always supporting the Turks
>>
>>51213117
Sure thing, but both countries are simply too big for a war. If NATO backs Turkey then Russians won't dare any sort of direct confrontation, if NATO refuses Russia won't risk a major conflict while it has way more dangerous enemies.
>>
>>51213236
Maybe US wouldn't be so pro Turkey if Geeks don't throw a fit every few years and threaten to go to Russia
>>
>>51213299
And its also very unlikely russia would go to war over this
>>
>>51213125
Russia backs Assad, no shit they are going to bomb militant groups that are anti-Assad. Turkey is just trying to protect it's assets in it's little proxy
>>
>>51213307
r u mudslime?
>>
>>51209261
Is the green box the engagement location?
>>
>>51213117
>>51213299
Russia doesn't have the troops to wage a war against Turkey. They have a huge land border and must maintain significant forces an all fronts. Russia cant do much even if there was no NATO, I doubt that they can even achieve air superiority over Turkey. Their fleet is in the Mediterranean exposed to Turkish action and isolated from support of ground based air force that Russian navy must have to be a serious threat. Any confrontation would see Turks destroy Russians in Syria and Mediterranean transferring the fighting to Black sea where Turkey can achieve superiority simply because they can concentrate their forces unlike Russia.
>>
>>51208870
Reuters told you that didn't they?
>>
>>51213392
kebab original
>>
>>51213392
mudslime or not mudslime,he tried to find the reason our allies support the turk and not us.We dont threaten to go to russia but we try to have important gas deals with them.Why not invest in our other eu and nato allies?why not follow the gas deals that are supported by us?why not send army against the jihadists?Be with your allies and they will help you.Otherwise they wont.Greece is shit because we have the worse possible leadership.Shut up now.
>>
>>51213481
turks cant concentrate their forces either because of the kurds
>>
Let's get this Customary International Law on Airspace Sovereignty question answered.

http://legal.un.org/legislativeseries/documents/Book25/Book25_part1_ch5.pdf

>In 1953, Oliver J. Lissitzyn, an authority on international air law, wrote, “In its efforts to control the movements of intruding aircraft the territorial sovereign must not expose the aircraft and its occupants to unnecessary or unreasonably great danger -- unreasonably great, that is, in relation to the reasonably apprehended harmfulness of the intrusion.” According to this view, a state should not attack an intruding aircraft unless it can reasonably justify that it poses a threat to its country.

So was the Russian unarmed aircraft that passed for 17 seconds through Turkish airspace a threat? You decide.
>>
>>51213557
I am talking about the air force and navy, maybe some tank formations. PKK has no real power to challenge Turkish control. Turkey has and eat/west strategic depth. Air force deployed to the east cant be used to the wast, but air force deployed along the Black sea can be used in the south. Russia on the other hand must maintain units outside of area of potential engagement, in the far east, north, central asia, and west, especially far east and west, limiting their forces.
>>
>>51212820
Among other things.
>giving Erdogan reason for ethnic cleansing
Do you think ethnic cleansing is cheap operation, on a click of a mouse?
That would destabilize Turkey to a massive extent. And Kurds are ripe for agitation.
I'm not saying they'll do it, but they could do it. I would do it.
>>51212921
>The lack of sanctions does indicate that the law is absent.
Except it doesn't. Complete lack of sanctions does, but if law sometimes doesn't apply it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
All of those things I spoke about are ius cogens. But you have to know a bit about law to understand what I'm talking about.
>so long it doesn't affect me
It affects everyone. World became a small place. In any case, Americans and Turkey support those ''moderate'' rebels. So why shouldn't Putin support Assad? I like him more.
>is the worst choice possible
When your opponents are radical Islamists, no choice is worse really. Assad obviously won't control entire Syria, that much is clear.
>And certainly many of the rebels are more "moderate" than Assad.
Like which? Mythical FSA?
That was pretty much an American op which failed. They are no real factor.
>>
>>51213654
I believe that opinion is talking about civilian planes. Military planes are a different matter. But still, I agree that this reaction was unjustified and possibly illegal.
In any case, it appears no one cares about our legal opinions on Bhutanese goat herding website. They just support shit based on epic memes and who they like more.
>>
>>51213556
do you think that if we were america's little bitch we wouldnt be shit now? we are shit because we are corrupt and want to eat as much as we can right now and dont look at the big picture, not because we are trying to make deals with russia
turkey had tensions with important usa allies while we did not and turkey also tries to have economic deals with whoever they can like us but still usa always supports turkey over us
you are retarded if you think they do that because we want the gas pipe from russia to pass from greece
>>
>>51213960
Military planes have to either pose an imminent threat, or ignore all orders to exit the airspace/land at a designated airfield.

>>51213409
Also someone answer this pls
>>
>>51213557
>turks cant concentrate their forces either because of the kurds
lel
>>
>>51214004
Yeah I crudely drew it here >>51212305
However, it is presumed unauthorized incursion of military aircraft presents a threat.
Just to be clear, we're on the same side, I'm just arguing about details.
>>
>>51212587
>Kurds
This gets even better by the moment
>Russian coffers bleed even more
>Kurds get better chance of getting their own country
>Turks are forced to be more careful to not alienate their western allies
win-win

still feel bad about the pilots though. They might have been bombing snackbars indiscriminately but they were just mooks, not decisionmakers.
>>
>>51214067
Yeah i saw the image, it's a good enough illustration. Do you know about the green box in the flight tracker image? I'm assuming it's the engagement?
>>
BIJI KURDISTAN
BIJI KURD U KURDISTAN

Fuck you Turks. Fuck KERDogan.

BUT still turkey did nothing wrong in this case, desu.
>>
>>51213491
>Reuters
Whats wrong with Reuters?
>>
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>>51214253
>hey ivan, what job do you want to do when you're a big man?
>you can be a doctor and help ill people, or a farmer and nourish people, or a fireman and rescue people
>what is it gonna be?
>where do i get to wear uniforms and kill folks?

>feel bad about the pilots
>>
>>51214697
That's stupid logic, it's part of what makes a man a real man, that desire to do something incredible like flying a jet fighter, you dont join up like in the infantry thinking "gee i just wanna shoot rag heads"
>>
>>51212922

Kek saved.
>>
>>51214775
he has a point tho. If you are a russian jet fighter pilot you pretty much know that theres a big chance that you'll end up bombing someone at one point. It's not like you are, let's say, a chilean jet fighter pilot that knows that he has a big chance of ending up his career without ever engaging anyone.
>>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34917485

Russian marine dead...
Thread posts: 346
Thread images: 32


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