In the comments section of this FZD video where feng shows before and after, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rI6q6bv7do but I'll quote it for you or you can check the picture Some guy named Peter Clark says that its your personality that matters and that Feng was being too harsh by pointing that shitty art, is in fact, shitty
apparently, Peter said that he has hired people with less skillz
From Peter Clark "I'm a professional artist and I have to say.... I think you're being a bit harsh with your comments. Calling peoples work 'amateurish' and 'high-school art' is hardly a great way to motivate your viewers moving forward. As a Lead Artist in the games industry, I have seen many people with less ability get hired. I've employed people with less drawing/painting ability. It all depends on the job AND the person's 'fit' within the team. Hiring someone based solely in their portfolio is a mistake. I get that you're highlighting the difference before and after training at your school, but try to ease off on the negativity..... it comes across as arrogant and made me reluctant to watch the rest of the video."
I can't seem to find the guy's website or anything as there multiple Peter Clarks who happen to be artists but the fact that he hired shitty artists based on their personality
>>2282350 >Hiring someone based solely in their portfolio is a mistake. >It all depends on the job AND the person's 'fit' within the team...
And isn't that really only based on their portfolio?
I mean this is a job where you have to produce, you produce a product based on what's in your portfolio. What else is there to judge if someone is a "fit" with? Companies may hire someone because they "like them" initially but if they can't produce how long do they stay hired? Maybe they don't keep them on for the next project?
Game studios layoff a lot, I think my chances of getting a new job somewhere else would be far better if I had a Feng level portfolio rather than a Mercwip.jpg portfolio. I don't see any logical reason not to improve your stuff, other than: lazy.
>>2282514 The question's not if they can produce. It's if they can work well in the studio culture. The portfolio's only the first step. Most studios will take someone slightly less skilled if he/she is good to work with compared to the asshole who's amazing. Maybe it's blasphemous to you hearing that art isn't everything but that's life. You don't hear about this as much from artists with social media presence because most are freelancers who don't have to deal with studio politics. Every instructor I've had with extensive studio experience stresses don't burn your bridges because everyone knows everyone.
>ITT: Anons trying hard to internalize their made up narrative of reality
It's about the whole package. A great portfolio don't mean shit if you act like a anon all the time. Larger companies and even most indie studios prefer to stay away from aggregate faggits. They don't care how good you are, you're not worth the trouble because you're a poisonous person to be around.
>asshole who's amazing. Asshole meme. Most people who are good aren't assholes. That's just some bullshit yarn spun by lazy people who don't want to improve. Stop deluding yourself into thinking the studio is going to hire the shit person because "he's a nice guy". Most of the good guys are nice too.
>Maybe it's blasphemous to you hearing that art isn't everything but that's life. lol, stop trying to sound high and mighty. You're not some expert with inside knowlage into anything, you're most likley a basement dwelling neet talking out their ass.
Anyone can find low level artists working at studio jobs, entry level positions. If you want to work your way up, get paid more and have a stable career like it or not it's about the art/design and skill level. You're not going to be able to design good shit if you can't draw no matter how creative you are.
>>2282530 And note that it's slightly less in skill, not a lot less. If your work isn't up to par you won't be considered, no shit. Even if your work is hot shit there's always someone else available to hire. And if there's no one else? Looks like there won't be any new hires this round. Having no one is better than having a toxic team member.
>>2282532 This. People need to get out of their mancaves and find out what it's like to work with others and socialize. You're going to hole up and do studies all day? Great. Now take some time to talk to people.
>>2282533 You won't even get to the contract. They'll cut you at the interview or test stage.
>>2282534 LEL E L I don't need to prove anything to you, son.
So far all I've heard is some fucking crazy projecting. "All good artists are assholes" "All good artists don't know how to socialize and just sit in their caves and study all day"
Being good doesn't mean you have to be mullins level. But the vast majority of people on IC aren't even at Mercwip level. Going around telling people skill level doesn't matter is just fucken stupid.
>Even if your work is hot shit there's always someone else available to hire This sentiment works for skilled artists as well, why hire someone shit when they is a plethora of skilled people out there?
>And note that it's slightly less in skill, So now the goalposts have moved? You only need to be slightly less skilled than a industry pro to get work? News flash, that's still pretty skilled. Someone who gets to that level still has to do all the studies and drawing to get there, years of working. 99% of IC isn't even out of pleb/amateur level and they're already lowering their standards thinking they can get work because anyone better than them is an asshole and wont get hired according to you.
>>2282537 No one said your work has to be hot shit or you need to be Feng level. The guy in OP doesn't even have "hot shit" work, that's not what he's saying. He's telling people not to work so hard to improve because it doesn't matter you can just kiss ass to get the job. You seem to be echoing that with your crazy ass ideas about how all skilled artists are assholes / antisocial and can't get work because they cant work in a production pipeline.
What the fuck are you even basing this off of? I seen hundreds of skilled people working in the industry, if you think you're going to get work with the average skill level on IC then you're an idiot. lol. You have to meet a minimum standard and working hard is the only way to get there.
People need to keep working to improve and should always be looking to go beyond the basic standard. I honestly don't see any reason not to other than you're lazy.
>>2282550 I'll humor you with pic related. Reverse google it. So unless you actually have industry experience I think I have a better view on things.
>All good artists are assholes When did I say this? Why are you misrepresenting my words? >why hire someone shit when they is a plethora of skilled people out there? This was never the argument. I even said if your work isn't up to par you won't be considered. >So now the goalposts have moved? I don't know what you thought the goalposts were but they never moved. >You only need to be slightly less skilled than a industry pro to get work? If two candidates both qualify, the one who is easier to get along with will be hired over the other even if the other guy is better. This is what I'm saying. The 2 being good enough to qualify is a given here. >because anyone better than them is an asshole and wont get hired according to you. Again I don't know where you're getting this from. It's like I said "this cup is 10 inches tall" and you're interpreting it as "this cup is 100 inches tall"
>>2282555 To clear any confusion let me go back to what I wrote >The question's not if they can produce. It's if they can work well in the studio culture. >IF they can work well in the studio culture. >The portfolio's only the first step. By this I meant "good job your portfolio is good enough for us to ask you for an interview" Hurdle 1 cleared >Most studios will take someone slightly less skilled if he/she is good to work with compared to the asshole who's amazing. >if he/she is good to work with compared to >if >if Did you misinterpret "if" for "because"? >Most studios will take someone slightly less skilled BECAUSE he/she is good to work with compared to the asshole who's amazing. Is that what you read in your head?
>>2282560 Oh I think I see it now. >compared to THE asshole who's amazing. is that what you're fixated on? let me fix that >compared to AN asshole who's amazing Is that better? I'm presenting a single theoretical asshole who's good at art for this hypothetical situation, not even close to saying all skilled artists are assholes. Either way you should chill buddy. You won't get hired with an attitude like that.
>>2282580 Yeah, and? Blame some shitty AD for squandering the available talent, because the stuff Blizzard puts out looks a high schooler's doodle book despite the talent behind it. The designs for armor in WoW are so bad, just like everything they publish. Every designs is so overwrought and stupid looking, when they aren't ripping things off wholesale and making them worse.
Oh hi there Raiden, didn't know Konami leased you to Blizzard.
No amount of technical skill will save shitty designs. And Blizzard works in shitty designs.
>>2282571 What's the point of giving advice by using ultra specific examples that don't represent the majority of scenarios people will come up against. Everyone knows being an asshole won't get you a job, but believe it or not most people aren't assholes. Telling anons that some rare pros that are assholes/egotistical won't get work and the less skilled people will get hired is great for maybe the 5% of times it happens. What about for everyone else who are competing against people better than them?
If you want to be competitive I don't see why you wouldn't want to be harsh on your work, seek improvement and try to be the best you can. Most people here on IC are amateur level at best, probably not a great idea to fill their heads with the idea they cant be mediocre and be fine.
Not sure why you're so hell bent on getting people to not be focused and improve. Maybe because you don't actually work in the industry? Hrmmm.
>>2282607 You know nothing about design, kid. Blizzard are exceptionally good at creating designs that become iconic and recognizable as fuck. Your warped sense of superiority makes it impossible for you to actually judge good design based on its context and purpose.
>>2282720 Oh! you can learn it alright, but first you got to learn how to appreciate good design. Just like learning to draw or paint, you first have to learn to appreciate good works of art. This what is mean by learning to "see". You can't learn good design if you can't "see" what makes it so good.
>>2282734 so mandatory question, how does one learn to apreciate good design? the first that comes to my mind of good design is paul richards, and the massive black/sixmorevodka people. but i have no idea as to what makes their designs good
>>2282739 There's a tooooon that can be said on what makes good design. A lot of it is taste, but a lot of it is more universal too. If you look at art from different cultures you can see design expressed in entirely different ways but it is always successful even if you are not from that culture. I think a large part of design is organization of things within the whole, so it is intentional emphasis or subduing to better get across a specific desire. Hard to explain. Better to just look at a lot of art with a discerning eye and try to analyze what you can and read a lot and draw a lot. Design is very difficult to teach and also a very personal thing that must come largely from a place of intuition or feeling. It is much like composition in that regard--you can try to lay down definitions and rules on how to compose an image, but at the end of the day those things are not entirely useful or concrete.
>>2282739 >>2282759 Paul Richards has a patreon where he shows the type of things that he thinks about for his drawings. Basically he finds tons of "rules" or tricks, to a ridiculous degree. He analyzes images he likes, finds these "rules" in them, or things that he thinks makes them successful, then puts them into practice in his daily practice sketches. One trick that comes to mind off the top of my head is to align as many lines to horizontal and vertical as you can, in your character sketch or whatever. I don't think the direction really matters, but his idea was to have a limited number of directions that the lines point in. Make parallel lines when possible, basically.
>>2282768 Right, but those "rules" are things that he personally has discovered and decided he likes. It would be better to discover your own "rules" of design rather than just accept what he says as fact and use them as your own.
>>2282623 >Not sure why you're so hell bent on getting people to not be focused and improve. Because saying you should also pay attention to interpersonal skills = permission to abandon your art as long as you're friendly, right?
>>2282792 What success? I can't think of one project sixmorevodka as completed on time or as won any prestigious accolades for or has become synonymous with a major franchise. All I see is them name dropping with nothing memorable to associate them to those said big names. Do you even know what their annual revenue is? No, you're just a stupid fanboi, commmrade
>>2282806 Your entire argument is predicated on the absurd belief the majority of people need to work on their interpersonal skills because studying hard to improve makes you a caveman. People are jumping to extremes because your argument is extremely dumb.
You've tried to act like your knowledgeable about the subject but your advise amounts to: Don't forget to wear pants on a interview or you wont get hired.
No shit Sherlock. State more obvious things please so we can all be enlightened.
>>2282806 You can't be serious. Why would an art director completely disregard someone's artistic ability and hire him 100% based on personality? Are you trying to say an art studio is more like a tea party than a work environment? Do you even have any evidence to support these claims? You can't expect me to believe these people just sit around gossiping and drawing doodles of each other on your word alone.
>>2282789 Companies look at your social network posts for a reason. Your best work will not gloss over all those misogynistic gamergate tweets you made nor any of your racist faceback comments.
Just because companies pander to discruntle sexually frustrated bigoted kids doesn't mean they want to work with them. They're not blind. They see how these people act. They also see the subgroups with in that want to break into the biz.
Only having a good portfolio doesn't cut it. You have to be a decent normal human being, some one who is emotionally healthy and doesn't have an attitude problem or tries to mack on anything that isn't nailed down
If you look back through this thread you'll find quite a few other anons echoing this idea, your work can be sub par but you'll get hired if you the "right fit" or "a nice guy". I'd also like some explanation or further examples of this, maybe I don't have to work my buns off getting better if all I need to do is BS my way into a job.
>>2282831 This thread was about how you don't need to work so hard to get better as long as you're nice, that it'll play a larger roll in your hieing than your art work will. No one is talking about raciest tweets being the reason you didn't get hired. Your premise assumes that most people aren't decent, that somehow good artists are assholes and that low tier people stand a better chance of getting hired because of it.
Still not seeing you post any evidence to support the statement.
>>2282843 To answer that, even though you're joking, the more skilled guy will always be the hire. 99% of people know how to conduct themselves in a business so acting like personality is a major factor of anything is just moronic.
>>2282797 I wouldn't be banking on everyone who's better than you being an asshole so you end up getting the job. Just sayin.
>>2282847 No this thread is neets trying to convince themselves that potential employers won't care about their atrocious personability.
And let's not kid each other, being socially inept poors out all kinds of character statements, like being a gamergate punk, having a disdain for minorities, believing certain political groups should be shot, etc.
Face it nearly everyone who comes here and engages with the usual vitriol is an arrogant punk hell-bent on being right about something, can't shut up or ignore shit for one moment, and feel it necessary to preach their world views to others either directly or indirectly.
Nobody would want to work with that. Nobody would want to work with you if acted like that all the time. Nobody wants someone with that kind of baggage in the office.
Lesson learned: You can't hide what you are. And people don't hire two-faced jerks and bigoted assholes.
>>2282994 Would I be following to the trap of trying to be right and not ignoring shit if I said I was just a sweet boy who just wants to make people of all stripes smile and feel happy and comfortable when I'm around?
>>2282994 >Projecting this hard. Just because you're an isolated NEET cave dweller anon doesn't mean everyone else on here is. Most of the people who come here lurk and never post, so you're statement is retarded right off the bat.
No one claimed business owners hire assholes except you. We all know they wont, don't bother trying to act like you're giving us some secret knowledge only you're privy to. 99% of people, like it or not, aren't assholes and you'll be competing with them based off the merits of you work not how much a cool bro you are.
Based on how triggered you are, I can assume your work is shit and you're butthurt about it.
>>2282996 You'd be a fake and your art will have that certain quality of fakeness about it once people met you. How someone perceives you after meeting you will change how they see your work, this is a basic law off people. You can't hide from judgment in the real world, people who try are eventual exposed and judged for being fake, like you for example.
>>2283008 I'm not fake at all. I'm a bit silly, but I genuinely have good will to all men. I have a character defect where everything that should make me mad about someone else gets absorbed back in and fuels my deep self hatred.
>>2283010 Sounds like you're under the impression that most people aren't general nice and can function in a work environment. Ever been outside? If you're banking your future career on the idea all other artists are assholes, so you don't have to try hard making decent art, you're fucked mate.
99% of the other applicants your competing against are basically the same as you. You're not the chosen one.
>>2282994 >like being a gamergate punk, having a disdain for minorities, believing certain political groups should be shot, etc.
ahahaha. you are fucking retarded. does it make you feel good to imagine that all the people you disagree with are miserable and can't get jobs?
I'm going to let you in on a little secret: YOU are the type of asshole that doesn't get hired because people hate them. Not the gamergate people. You. The self-righteous Tumblr SJW type. Nobody wants to work with you or be around you.
Literally every interview I've had for concept art gigs in the past, one of the first questions I'm asked when I visit the studio is "are you easily offended?" That's to screen out people like you. And it works, because you tards just can't help but spout off like you just did.
Btw, this Peter Clark guy in the OP is a VFX artist, not a concept artist or anything like what we talk about here. https://uk.linkedin.com/in/peter-clark-3b88a04
VFX is presumably going to be less portfolio reliant than most of what /ic/ deals with, given that it has more to do with software packages and less to do with drawing and painting and other skills you can show in a portfolio.
Frankly, I don't think he's qualified to disagree with Feng Zhu on what gets you hired as a concept artist.
I can't get the logic some anons in this thread have.
So, they assume that, generally speaking, people who've spent years improving to reach a standard accepted work are all autistic assholes who can't function? Therefor they don't need to spend the years getting to a basically accepted level of skill because.....they are nice and companies don't really hire based on your work but your personality?
wut....This has to be the most delusional thread I've seen on IC, ever.
>>2283048 >>2283057 Not the other guy, but being nice and being a functional member of a team are two completely unrelated things. Just like "the real world" and people on 4chan. Anyone bringing even a fraction of the mindset most people on /ic/ have would get kicked out within a month.
>>2283382 Exactly. Jesus, for a board full of mouthbreathing cockmongers, y'all think you're the messiah of manga and shit. You wouldn't last a week in an ad firm, would fucking alienate the entire GAG, and wouldn't get a second callback from any AAD in Manhattan.
They'll take the second best artist in a heartbeat if it means not enduring all this pretentious self-esteem.
Most people out there "in the real world" working in team/group based jobs have no trouble fitting in, it's not a rare thing. The vast majority of applicants out there are going to be just fine working in a team, and also be nice. If you're entire hypothesis is the majority of artists are unruly assholes who also don't know how to work in a team based environments so you're less than skilled work and good personality will get you hired, good luck!
>They'll take the second best artist in a heartbeat if it means not enduring all this pretentious self-esteem. Idiotic argument. You're not going to be competing against one "top guy" on job interviews. You'll be fighting against many guys/gals. Emphasis on guyS/galS, there will be a lot of them and if your only way of standing out is being nice don't quit your day job because I can assure you they aren't all assholes.
On top of all that you and others in this thread are projecting hard, claiming good artist must be egotistical assholes. You obviously think a majority of them are and it's not just a rare occurrence. You couldn't possible be stupid enough to support your entire argument on a single narrow scenario where someone is up for a job, only two applicants, one of them is nice/less skilled and one is great/asshole. That scenario would be so specific as to be utterly useless as advise.
The vast majority of the time you'd be up against a non asshole, and probably a group of other non assholes. So we're back to my original point of...i
>>2282350 >>>/cos/ this is where character design belongs
I guest critiqued at an art school once. Kids with their paintings of trench coat mafia katana wielding bullshit. All they want is a pat on the back. Complete misunderstanding of the words Art & Critique.
>tell us about your painting, >its a character I'm working on, someday maybe I will make a gaem. hes evil sonic and he likes knives and heavy metal and HATES Brian fuk u brian i hate you so god damn much >..... >ok thanks, next
>>2283075 This, vfx does not require art skill, just software knowledge and photobashing, of course networking at being a good person to work with is a bigger factor. Also in vfx you're competing for shitty wages anyway and there's more positions, vs concept art which are really competitive and fewest positions.
>>2283720 Since when does good design mean "design that appeals to masses"? Blizzard is popular because they cater to the tastes of the masses. A certain taste is not better just because more people have it. In fact, some would argue that the majority has shit taste in design.
>>2282350 it's not difficult to understand. you have the choice between a guy that would good work, perhaps not great but good attitude, fit rigth in with the team and ready to learn. also have references that show he always deliver on time.
on the other hand you can choose a guy who is better, but already come off as an insufferable asshole in a fifteen minute interview.
of course you will choose the first one, the second one will end up costing more money that he bring.
>but muh meritocracy being a decent human being has it's own merit, anon
>>2284724 >on the other hand you can choose a guy who is better, but already come off as an insufferable asshole in a fifteen minute interview. why do you guys all think the better you get the more you become an insufferable asshole? honestly in 22 years of living i've met literally no insufferable ass holes. anyone who I thought was an ass hole in my life i think back on and they were totally fine. are you guys all in high school? is that the /ic/ secret?
get better. stop thinking that your personality is so drastically different than other people's. this is the brimmed hat tipping equivalent for artists.
>>2284784 >on the other hand you can choose a guy who is better, but already come off as an insufferable asshole in a fifteen minute interview. thats exactly what this implies. its exactly what OP implies. employers have to choose between jesus christ who can't nail two pieces of plywood together or adolf hitler who was top of his class in art school.
I've been out of this thread for 30+ posts, come back, and people are still making the same stupid ass argument about companies hiring the less skilled nice guy.
Maybe 1 out of 99 times you go for a job interview you'll be up against one other guy and he's an asshole/the boss doesn't like him. If the chance is so rare i'll never happen it's pointless to give as advise, because it'll never happen. You'd have to be a moron to plan your life/career/whatever around a 1 to 100 chance that you have no control over. And chances are you'll just as easily end up being the guy that doesn't mesh well, you think you're some special snowflake?
>>2284225 Saying "blizzard caters to the masses" is your person opinion moron. They make their games in a distinctive style that lots of people happen to like and buy. That's good design, bad design by comparison would be the total pleb level shit you draw that no one wants to look at.
"Catering to the masses" is a negative personal view you hold.
>>2282831 Seconding this. It's not so much that being super nice and riding people's dicks will get you a job easier than grinding your folio all year, but if you're an asshole, bad with people, don't work well on teams, or go on rants on social media about immigrants or liberals or whatever, then you won't get hired.
Can't name names but there was an artist who went on a spree of burning bridges and talking shit about a lot of other artists and companies on Facebook a few months ago, and I know for a fact that's got him blacklisted. Including from some of his dream jobs.
Basically be really good at whatever you do, and don't post on Facebook or act in real life as if you were shitposting on here or /pol/.
>>2284786 > employers have to choose between jesus christ who can't nail two pieces of plywood together or adolf hitler who was top of his class in art school.
>>2284835 >Maybe 1 out of 99 times you go for a job interview you'll be up against one other guy and he's an asshole/the boss doesn't like him. If the chance is so rare i'll never happen it's pointless to give as advise, because it'll never happen. You'd have to be a moron to plan your life/career/whatever around a 1 to 100 chance that you have no control over. And chances are you'll just as easily end up being the guy that doesn't mesh well, you think you're some special snowflake?
the point is not good artist are all asshole. it's that skill isn't the only thing that matter in job interview. if you're working under someone, being able to clearly communicate with him matter. if you're working with a team, fitting with the team matter. if you work with deadline being able to consistently deliver on time matter.
i applied to an open as junior CA at a studio some time ago. now i just saw who they actually hired over me.
blew my fucking testicles right out the front door i kid you not fellas. absolute shit work in his folio. like incredibad. guy does nothing but spitpaints that lack in fundamentals well beyond the point of absurdity.
granted my folio has plenty of flaws but it's technically quite high level (then again this is a CA job so his 300 garbage spitpaints might have trumped due to the larger body of work).
however one crucial difference between me and him is that he has like 9000 fb followers. i have a couple 100.
I said "Not dealing with pretentious self-esteem."
I didn't say 'be a fucking moronic Care Bear of kindness.'
Be all business, never go out for a beer with the team, never share your personal life's least detail, and don't even take a personal day for your parents' double funeral, I don't give a fuck. But the way you talk about working on a team and contributing to a project in those parts of the job which require cooperation is ridiculous. You need to be able to critique ideas in a positive way which moves the design, the project, and the team forwards. You seem like the kind of cuntrag you would slap a drawing onto the floor and say 'this is shit, I'm not working with this guy!', instead of explaining where the design is weak, where the coworker went afoul of design parameters, or how your solution will move everyone forward better.
It's about remembering this is a job, and needs to be done on time and under budget. (LOL, rarely happens.)
It's all about the skill becase the job primarily making artwork, which requires skill.
Saying "they'll hire a less skilled nice guy over a skilled asshole" is the same kind of fallacy as saying "they'll hire a less skilled guy who doesn't stink over a skilled guy who doesn't shower". Or "they'll hire a less skilled guy with no criminal record over a skilled guy charged with murder". It is true. But it's not fucking relevant.
The thing is, they won't hire a nice smelling guy either if he can't draw. So ultimately, skill matters more.
You need skill because that's what companies look for. You can have some negative qualities that could make you unfit for the job, but it isn't limited by your personality.
women definitely get preferentially hired in the game industry. I've seen it happen. not surprising really: a bunch of sweaty grognards working 15 hour crunches for months at a time want to bring some female company in so work isn't a total sausage fest. just human nature.
but yeah, if you can be a girl, that's definitely going to be a point in your favor in an interview.
I have applied my portfolio to some big animation and game studios for internships (Disney, Dreamworks, Zynga) and even gotten a few interviews with them and had art directors look at my portfolio in person, %100 of the time I was rejected for the lack of skills and design abilities.
>>2284902 If he has 9000 fb followers then there is probably something to his work. Maybe you are underestimating him in some way. Even if some of his skills are weak, he is probably strong in some area and you aren't fully acknowledging that. Also showing a large number of spitpaints shows the ability to pump out consistent work in a very fast time limit, which maybe is all the studio wanted.
Reading a book by Ed Catmull at the moment, founder of Pixar and current president of them and Disney, and found a part that seems relevant here.
"Getting the team right is the necessary precursor to getting the ideas right. It is easy to say you want talented people, and you do, but the way those people interact with each other is the real key. Even the smartest people can form an ineffective team if they are mismatched. That means it is better to focus on how a team is performing, not on the talents of the individuals within it. A good team is made up of people who complement each other. There is an important principle here that may seem obvious, yet -- in my experience -- is not obvious at all. Getting the right people and the right chemistry is more important than getting the right idea."
TL;DR - Your personality by itself won't land you a job over someone else with a similar level portfolio. But being a better fit for their team will.
Feng Zhu is doing the right thing though. Can't you see how saturated with garbage games the industry is? That's because companies want the games being made so the money comes in. They don't want quality, they don't care unless they have a reputation to sustain. Trust me, I've done 3 studios so far and most art director are only happy when the product is moving forward. It's about about MONEY because we live in a society driven by MONEY. Basically he could have just said: "We don't necessarily want good artist because it's just gonna cost us more for less profit."
Also it would help if "gamers" didn't have such bad fucking taste in everything artistic.
>>2287139 >It's about about MONEY because we live in a society driven by MONEY >Also it would help if "gamers" didn't have such bad fucking taste in everything artistic.
lol, you've never worked in games, you're just some elitist NEET in moms basement. The corporate work world and games have been about money for a long time. People who do those jobs are fully aware and accept it. Why? Because they get paid to draw and paint all day, they're not entitled little bitches who want everything their way. If you don't like the culture, pro tip, don't work there. You can always go make art for "muh feels", with your ultra way superior sense of style and design, living in a back alley somewhere.
>>2287314 If you don't provide proof no one gives a shit about your anecdotal yarn.
Here's the thing: most people can't differentiate between good art and bad art. They don't give a shit about "fundamentals" like us /ic/ grognards do; all they care about is cool ideas. That's what a concept artist really is: the cool idea guy, not necessarily the guy who paints really well.
You might be 10x better at sweet edges and values and brush effects than this spitpaint guy, but if he has over 9000 FB followers, it's because he's good at making cool ideas that people want to look at. And that's more valuable to a game development team than someone who paints just like Ruan Jia but doesn't really have awesome ideas to render for 100 straight hours.
Go show any normie one of Jaime Jones' painterly landscape paintings and one of Dan Luvisi's ugly explosion paintings with mechs and bullets and lasersharks everywhere, and ask them which one is better. They're going to choose Dan's work every time. Only pretentious art nerds like us care about how good your value welding is and how sweet your edge control is and how technically well you rendered that earwax or whatever. It's a bitter lesson for wannabe concept artists to learn: your technical ability really only matters to the extent that it allows you to communicate your cool ideas. Past a certain point, it's masturbation.
>>2287991 The same applies to literally everything, if this were /v/ you could well bemoan how games like SOTC or Bayonetta 2 only sells a fraction of what games like Fallout 4 do, most people are plebs.
>>2287991 >Go show any normie one of Jaime Jones' painterly landscape paintings and one of Dan Luvisi's ugly explosion paintings with mechs and bullets and lasersharks everywhere, and ask them which one is better. k first of all don't say normie you fucking weirdo.
second third fourth and fifth if you showed the average person who isn't a 20 year old that plays video games all day those two images they would choose jaime jones.
I'd even venture to say if you showed the average person that same "painterly" digital painting and an oil painting of a tree, they would choose the tree.
The average person isn't a 20 year old who plays video games all day. The average person has income to spend on actual paintings to decorate their house they are paying a mortgage on. The average person doesn't care about digital art.
But keep pretending digital concept art for some video game that got shitty reviews is what everyone considers "good art"
>>2287991 NB - Cool ideas, not necessarily original ones.
Your standard sci-fi ball / cool mech guy / orc with skull necklace thing is still going to get more approval because it's something people know. One really depressing thing for me is just how many pros have fantastic skills but literally no imagination. Even asking their audience on stream to help with an idea and the audience just parrots back some mech guy in a hoodie.
>>2289286 >One really depressing thing for me is just how many pros have fantastic skills but literally no imagination.
A lot of noobs like you have no idea what imagination and creativity actually means. If any competent artist draws a mech, they will make use of already established design language and shape design that people are familiar with and as a result of that, it will be called generic by elitist amateurs. Literally any good design is generic and unimaginative in the eyes of faggots like you, because if it's a good design, it has already been done before in one way or another.
The only designs people like you would ever call imaginative and creative are random, nonsensical shit that has no practical purpose nor application.
>>2289825 I get that just calling everyone amateurs, noobs, elitists or NEETs makes it easier to disregard anything posted on this board that you disagree with, but you do understand that if you don't even consider other viewpoints then you will never improve your own or learn new ones right.
Of course design language and such is a thing, but so is original ideas. My point was how there are so many people training to be concept artists and they spend a lot of time grinding their skills, speed, and visual libraries, but not anywhere near enough time being creative. To be a concept artist on an established franchise like making the new Call of Duty is simple enough, and giving things a new lick of paint can be done by any competent artist.
Making a new game, or something with new ideas is very different. With that, you truly need to come up with new ideas and concepts, and when a position is all about originality and creativity, being able to make a generic mech soldier faster than anyone else just won't cut it. Read up on Adam Adamowicz, his art isn't the best in technical terms but he used to pump out ideas faster than anyone, and so many things that no one else at the studio would have come up with.
OP may not be making sweeping statements about all pro artists but other anons in this thread have.
"don't be a dick" isn't advise for getting hired, the majority of you average artists out there won't be up against a "dickish" pro anyway. 9 times of of 10 you'll be up against other nice, more skilled, people.
Even if you get the job you'll still need to keep improving to hold onto it/get promoted long term with the constant influx of new talent and common layoffs/job hunting so why not just do it anyway. The artists in OP's image is a moron.
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