>>2282264 If you go to a top tier school and don't take a lot of debt, yes. (This is a bit different for artcenters concept art program). If you're not good enough to go to a good school on scholarship, then you aren't good enough to get work outside of it. Obviously you can teach yourself technical skill at home, but art school teaches you how to formulate and execute ideas. Also the connections you make in art school are very very important.
>>2282271 >but art school teaches you how to formulate and execute ideas
Self teaching can help you with this as well. The #1 problem I always see at Art Schools is lack of resources, which /ic/ isn't short of that. Taking some of the better on-site and online courses that money has to offer, I can tell you that it's all a loud of shit.
At the end of the day, the instructors advise will advise you to continue reading what you're currently reading, and just draw more. That's it. Most art students drop out not because they can't afford it, but simply because it gets in the way of their self teachings.
>>2282271 Taking comissions early on will teach that better than any school will theoretically teach you. Art schools are useless - we have the internet now. There's so much knowledge, especially regarding to art, that it's a waste.
If you fail at self-teaching, you would never have made it if you came out of any school in the first place. No professor or program will ever make you love practice/repetition/concentration but your own determination/passion.
You also never stop learning in art - you don't have the time to go to school forever anyway. So self teaching is a skill every good artist has developed. Might as well use it to not get yourself a meaningless debt.
>>2282407 >1 From $40 (bust sketch), to ~$150 (detailed charcoal portrait) to $500 (fantasy illustration) generally, very rarely ~$1k, depends on the scope of the project - I mostly do real life portraits and fantasy illus/concept a la MTG, except I am still low tier >2 You do a thing and you see it looks bad in some places. You then re-do a thing many times and you see improvements. You keep doing this all the time and you steadily get better.
All you need to do is not develop an ego or an attachment to your individual work, especially if it's practice fodder. And you'll be able to tell your mistakes pretty objectively. I mean if it looks good to you, it'll look good to normies who buy it. I may not be able to critique leonardo's work but nowadays art is for normies, so you got some breathing room when you're into your first years of work thankfully.
>>2282395 No matter how good your portfolio may seem, knowing the right people in the industry is crucial to getting employed at the best place. You simply cannot get that from commissions self teaching.
>>2282453 >2 > if it looks good to you, it'll look good to normies This reasoning isn't wrong. It's generally right, but if you want to do more than cater to normies you're going to have to cater to art directors. The best places have good art directors who can point out so many things that you never saw, considered, or were even aware of. Self-teaching doesn't give you that judgment, experience, and taste. You're only working off of your own feedback. A good, experienced teacher isn't required but will accelerate your learning greatly. That's what a good art education's for, accelerating your progress.
>>2282264 ONLY if you're actually working hard alongside school work on your own and it's a decent school, use school as discipline and extra resource. Don't go to school to just do assignments and expect to be good when you graduate. Also if youre paying a lot, no it's not worth it no matter what
>>2282455 Don't be stupid. If your work is bad/mediocre no "industry" people are going to bother with you.
Having high quality work is always going to be the icebreaker when it comes to talking to people. If they see you working hard and like your work they're going to be more responsive. If you're a low level pleb trolling for jobs they're going to write you off with the hundreds of other leeches that contact them every day. The level of your work should always be the focus. The rest will come as you put your work out there and interact with people, it takes years to develop contacts.
>>2282264 Most of what you get from school is crits, and some motivation. If you already have the motivation to do studies everyday along with personal work you may not need school. There are plenty of pros out there with online schools/IRL workshops that offer crits and instruction. Going to something like that will be a lot cheaper than college. You have to decide if having a 4 year college degree matters to you.
>>2282264 In school they teach you things you don't want to do so that you have more skills and therefore be more hireable, but do you really want to do things you don't want to do? And pay to learn things you don't want to do? I'm talking about product advertising, package design, doing enviros (if you just want to do characters) or characters (if you only want to do enviros), still lives and portraits that only teach you to copy (do you want to work as a street artist drawing people on the street for $5?), writing long bullshit narratives, taking courses that have nothing to do with art. Of course there will be things they teach that you want to do, but you can do that on your own, in the comfort of your parents' basement.
>>2282718 i draw too man, it just seems like is gonna take forever to reach him. dont get me wrong i like challenges and i enjoy the "journey". sometimes it can get a bit overwhelming though. then again i have only been doing this for a bit more than a couple years.
I'm head of human resources at a AAA game studio. We immediately filter out any creative applicants who don't have a degree or isn't actively pursuing one. Don't waste our time. School teaches artists to be real artists and that's who we're after, real artists.
>>2282841 I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at FZD School of Design, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret concept art jobs at Hollywood, I have over 300 featured images on CA. I am trained in PS filters and I’m the top illustrator in the entire US art scene. You are nothing to me but just another blob of color. I will smudge you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of art directors and your IP is being traced right now you better prepare for the storm. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your art career. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can photobash you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in oils, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Photoshop texture brushes and I will use them to their full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price. I will shit lens flares all over you and you will drown in them. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Being an artist for a living is already probably a waste of a life.
Enjoy selling shitty grade art work in exchange for peanuts. Being an artist is useless if you don't branch into something else as well, like a STEM science or creative writing. Even then you still have to work harder than the work-a-day joe schmoe to make a small fraction of what he does.
If you don't have the heart for that, and if you're a person who easily loses focus of their original goals, you'll probably not make it.
If you're a hipster or a dilettante, just give up now. You won't make it.
>>2283197 STEM isn't something you just dip your toes into as a safety net. You have to be pretty exceptional to get decent work and if you aren't interested in the subject matter it's going to be pure torture.
>>2283200 Obviously. I'm not even talking academically.
Just being a tinkerer in your basement provides a lot of inspiration. I'm tiring of seeing so many fucking artists with one-track minds, it's offensive. And their artwork is so fucking cliched and computerized. They know fucking shit.
Just stepping out of bounds and interacting with other fucking circles of interest, and braving being called the most infantile of insults (NERD!!), to me earns a lot of respect.
I dropped out of art school and I dropped out of animation school, and I have absolutely zero regrets. If you can't take even the most basic of risks in life, you're barely an artist, let alone an adult.
>>2282264 If you are young and it's free to go there why not. But there is a lot of other options, like mentorships, online courses etc I started to draw when i was 22 so it was harder for me with full time job. So i found an art teacher online so it works really well, at least for me.
See which courses your community college has that you are interested in.
They're relatively cheap classes, just pay for them in full up front like 150-250, and ignore your grades and the books/supplies your teachers want you to buy that tack on extra bs costs because you're just their for the lectures and pointers the teacher will give you regardless of which supplies you show up with. (obviously you don't bring just a pencil to a painting class, but if your teacher wants you to buy expensive oils and you show up with cheap acrylics it is not going to matter unless your teacher is a complete asshole).
Try to make friends, have a good time, and network a little. If you like a class and feel you didn't get all you could out of it take it again or the follow up course.
It's better to take only classes you like and need while being able to drop out debt free whenever you want than being constantly annoyed to keep your grades up in classes you don't give a fuck about just to get a worthless degree nobody gives a fuck about with tens of thousands of dollars in debt.
Really the only reason to graduate is if you plan on getting a 4+ year degree and teaching art at a high school or some shit because it will not help you get a studio job, publisher, etc.
>>2283213 Don't listen to retards like this, who have had no actual experience with art school and base their opinions on memes shared on 4chan.
Art school is what you make it. I would not recommend going into debt for a degree. If you don't have the cash to fund your education, or the portfolio to get a scholarship, don't go.
If you do go, make the most of it. This isn't the time to party and chase tail and skip class, it's the time to hunker down and focus on your art. Take advantage of the time you have there.
Art school provides a lot of things that you won't get anywhere else, outside of a really well-funded co-op. Access to printmaking facilities, bronze-casting facilities, one-on-one instruction, an on campus-gallery with rotating work by professional artists, instruction on the business and gallery side of being a professional artist, a creative environment where you can find inspiration from and bounce ideas off of other aspiring artists, art history courses from people with doctorates in the field, etc. etc.
If you can fund your education, do it, do it. If you can't, work on that portfolio and try for scholarships later on, or choose another path that doesn't involve art school. Art school isn't necessary, but it can be a huge boost.
>Be 24 >Have Associate in Fine Arts >Want to go to SCAD >Driving semis (55k to 63k yrly) to save up to get bachelor's in animation >After 3 years of working starting next yr and saving about 75% of my income for 3 yrs to pay for it >Will still have to take out a 10k loan maybe >I just want to make art for a living, it is my calling >Your thoughts on my plans?
>>2284669 As someone who's taking CGMA classes right now, I wouldn't really recommend them. Lessons are okay but I'm taking separate instructors so they differ in teaching methods and it can get confusing. Critiques probably depend per instructor, but I literally had a critique video where my instructor left it recording while he left to answer the door somewhere else, then forgot to actually finish the video and submitted that. I feel like there's little drive to get work done so if your like me and need a class setting to motivate you then look elsewhere. If you can work without that, then save the money and watch gnoman videos instead.
>>2284615 This is basically me as well, though I'm 23 and going to AC for Entertainment Design. Though I'm only doing part time gig work and depending on finaid to get me through the first year. If you can get through it with only 10k in loans I'd say it's worth it, you could easily pay that off with your current job if you can't find work right out of graduation. I'd say do it man.
Trucker anon here, thanks, if I can get finaid and scholarships, I might actually have excess money after its said and done, I just dont know if Id be able to make a living is what scares me, but, I do have a back up plan that pays well, so I'll jump on it.
>>2282767 Ugh ... is this really who we're supposed to look up to people who make art that is basically just giant piles of technique layered over the masturbatory fantasies of middle schoolers? ffs why would I even want to be a grown man who thinks making video games is a good thing to be? Might as well just stay in my old bedroom and play videogames all day.
>>2282311 dubs speak the truth. do art as a hobby. even try to make a little money on the side doing commissions or patreon once you get a big enough following. but don't rely on art for your primary income. you'll be poor, miserable and depressed.
inb4 someone brings up mullins or jones or sakimi. outliers are the exception, not the rule.
whenever i read posts like this i always picture some fat dumb plebeian pointing his stinky finger at rembrandt and yelling 'haha look at that manchild painting ghouls and dragons hahahaha what a fucking nerd grow up dude'
>>2284919 >thousands >out of 6 billion people on earth.
sounds about right.
>>2283200 >you have to be pretty exceptional I graduated stem, and I wouldn't say you have to be exceptional, just competent. And I don't find the material terribly interesting, but I wouldn't say it was torture either.
When I look at you guys busting your balls doing 10-20 hours work to make the same amount of money I can make in about 30 minutes (not including drive time), I feel sorry for you. Art is fun, but why anyone would choose to make it their primary career makes me wonder about their mental state. Are you all masochists?
>>2288755 Huh? People mostly like Rembrandt's portraits, history and landscape paintings, not "ghouls and dragons". Also if you think Rembrandt's stuff is reducible to the cover of a YA fantasy novel then ... yo, read more books, cause there's some major gaps in your education.
>>2288757 >When I look at you guys busting your balls doing 10-20 hours work to make the same amount of money I can make in about 30 minutes (not including drive time)
Assuming I believe you, which I don't because you're using the term "stem" (a common /Ic/ meme) rather than saying the type of job you're working, this argument could be made for the majority of people working today. For most people the reality is boring office job, menial labor or some other shit thing. If the option is that or spend your life working hard but doing art the answer is a no brainer.
The fact you don't see that also makes me highly doubt you are smart enough for stem and are infact some troll living in your moms basement. .
>>2288757 People do art because they love it. Rather than getting into a job they don't like and being unhappy never knowing what they could have achieved with an art degree, they'd rather do what they love and be happy doing it. Even if that came at the expense of money.
Money doesn't buy happiness, in ten years you'll probably wish you'd followed your dreams.
>>2289695 you're gonna be just as fucked if you put yourself in a job that you hate even if it pays well.
spending 8 hours a day doing something you don't like every day for 40 years isn't good either. even if the pay is good, you're giving away like a third of your entire life your have on this earth just to make another third of it slightly more enjoyable. if you're getting fucked out of money by doing a badly paying fun job, then you're getting fucked out of your soul by doing a well paying boring job
>>2289858 >if you put yourself in a job that you hate
I honestly can not think of one single "job" that I would not hate if I were forced to do it 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 40 years. Even drawing, which I love, *as a hobby*, I would begin to hate if it were something I were forced to do.
Even if the job were flying fighter jets, or playing video games, even if it were sex with hot babes. When someone tells you "you must do this and nothing else for 8 hours," the fun is gone. Too much of a good thing ruins it, and that's what a job is.
Wait, there is one job that would never get tiring for me, it's called, "Sit around and do whatever the fuck i feel like, whenever I feel like doing it." Yeah, endless variety, no boredom, but unfortunately no one is hiring.
I contend that no matter what you do, eventually it will get tedious and boring. With that in mind, the best course of action is to get the job that pays the most, so you can have the resources and leisure time to comfortably pursue what you actually enjoy.
>>2290042 >do whatever the fuck i feel like, whenever I feel like doing it.
This is basically what it is to have your own business. I sell crafts and prints to several venders and make a decent buck on my spare time just by making shit that interests me. Of course it's harder to do that go make a living but I know some people that do. Being your own boss can be very rewarding, but of course at the price of putting up with higher risk.
Sounds good in theory, but once you actually start trying to support yourself on something that unstable and iffy, you realize that the stress of never being certain that you'll be able to make rent next month completely eclipses the fun of "doing whatever the fuck you feel like."
Turns out our parents were right: it's much better to get a real job and pursue art as a hobby if you're into it. I'm not even the guy you're replying to, I just agree.
Art school is great for networking, you can't go in expecting a job when graduating (same for any school) and art school has the potental to teac you the skills to be a great artist. But even the teachers admit when you press them hard enough that it doesn't matter where you go to school, companoies rarely care about education. Its the portfolio, technical knowledge, who you know in the industry, and the experience the lands you a job in the industry.
>>2292435 Most of IC wants to do art for a living so the conversations skew toward what the uninformed masses of IC see as the most obvious career paths, concept art for games, Illustration work for card games and rpg's. It seems a lot of people focus on only doing the type of work they can get hired for..
>>2292243 >Art school is great for networking Most people going to art school won't get that benefit. So few people who graduate actually end up working in an art related field the chances of you knowing someone who can get you work is slim to nil. Unless you go to a school specifically that has teachers who are industry people or has a high rate of graduates working in an art field you'd get better networking out of social media and conventions. Schools with good networking are going to be the minority of art programs and you should really do your research before going to school for an art degree.
>>2292533 >people that want to be proficient in imaginative realism and sylization are manchildren >people that rub spaghetti all over their body and take pictures of themselves with cans of beans on their head are adults with a profound sense of self-expression
I'd suggest the people that genuinely believe this kill themselves, but most of them are inconsequential art graduates who will live in poverty for the rest of their lives due to crushing debt anyway.
I'm not chinese or a photobasher. I'm also not a mouth-breathing, chain-smoking sycophant with saucer tits and a unibrow that still finds artists that have been aping Picasso, Pollock and Duchamp for 100 years as anything other than the pretentious derivative phonies that they really are.
>>2283182 Lyndsey Gilmour everybody! She even have received a ton of awards! >I work with both familiar and unfamiliar hand-held objects of which I paint from observation. My poetic language towards the objects drives the composition and form that my paintings and installations take; where the objects sit in relation to one another and the space they occupy is vital. With an interest in the three-dimensional objects and the two-dimensionality of painting, I play with flatness and form, the shadow and the ephemeral, in order to confuse the viewer as to what is a given reality and what is created.
>>2282656 He's right tho. In general you can teach yourself anything using just the internet and books. For example, I'm a high school dropout and I'm making $60k a year doing software development. You can really do anything if you put your mind to it.
>>2288071 I'm scared Anon I don't know what I want to do with my life and I don't have any dreams or friends so I chose STEM studies to at least have a bit of comfort money but I just don't like it at all.
>>2282395 >art schools are useless - we have the internet now Keep in mind the people writing things like this are also the people who proclaim that they were really smart in high school, but were just an underachiever and probably dropped out because they thought they could learn more on the internet than in a school.
>>2290132 Don't do this. Artists who force themselves to major in GD are the same as those who force themselves into STEM fields. You'll hate your work and the money and jobs aren't as available as you think they are.
>>2292652 >all exhibitions are uninformed shitty abstractions >an exhibition or solo show is the same thing as a student's performance piece Are you willfully this ignorant? Seriously, why would you only look for things like this that back up your close minded view of what art school teaches or is about?
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