Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises. Feel free to post even the smallest exercise you have done to show you are still trying, do not give up. Practice makes Perfect!
A friendly reminder to do wrist exercises and take breaks as you practice to avoid getting CPS. http://www.eatonhand.com/hw/ctexercise.htm http://wnyptot.com/articles/info_education/carpal_tunnel.pdf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUyMNyrOHJQ
>>1849543 Looks like you're not even trying to reproduce the values you see in the photo. What the fuck.
Choose a better ref with more clear shadows for the next one, and pay very close attention to where the light and dark areas lie. It would also do good to you just to forget about lines entirely and focus on the shades.
>>1849627 Hm, the hands look tiny in the reference too. Might be some lens distortion causing it or something (his legs also appear very short compared to his torso), but regardless of the cause I think you should try to recognize when things look wrong and correct it when you paint it.
He probably just has small hand, and the fact that he is so swole makes it more noticeable, but yeah, it would look better with larger hands. Head size should be a tad larger, and the knees start a bit early.
>>1849691 just copy photographs. be as precise as possible. make sure that each line relates to the others in its length. that's how you get rid of symbol drawing. you just draw what you actually see. you dont draw a stylised version, just be as realistic as possible.
if you can't do that then try it with your photograph being upside down. it will make it harder for you to see the objects(like eyes, mouth and shit) and you will be able to focusing more on just copying it.
>>1849447 I've been trying to blind contour draw shit to get over chicken scratching, but I find that my eye REALLY wants to jump across the object I'm looking at (I look at the object's outline I'm drawing, but then jump way ahead of my pencil when I try to progress and begin to over-correct repeatedly)-- do I just deal with it and grind more?
I don't know if this is the right thread to ask, it is a beginner question of sorts. Is there a list out there of available painting software? Free or otherwise. I've been sticking to SAI lately and I'd like to try other stuff.
>>1849987 Anything I can watch or do to help speed it along? I can do boxes lined up with vanishing points just fine but the moment I do something like rotate the box a little or add a circle shit goes out the window
I'm deeply sorry man, you have truly shit taste. Look at art. Whatever the period nobody has ever thought of such a body as something remotely beautiful. Everyone knows that highly musculare bodies are just a niche for spergs who don't actually understand beauty and the way it is constructed, like a paraphilia of sorts.
Your taste is in fact closer to that of those sad fat 50yo housewives that go to stripper clubs than it is to the taste of an artist. Even fashion models aren't bodybuilders. And most of those in high fashion are indeed skinny as fuck.
>>1850123 Separate anon here, but there is artistic beauty in all body types, to say that any type of body isn't beautiful is ignorant.
To be fair though, I love them hunky looking guys. There's something very carnal about strength and musculature.
And not to be hypocritical but if you're posting that image as a challenge to muscular beautiful men, then your tastes are kind of skewed. I mean maybe you like a lanky physique or a certain indie style, but that just looks like some random ass 19 year old kid with almost no character at all. Very boring.
>>1850118 I don't even disagree with you but using fashion models as an example isn't exactly supporting your argument. They don't look that way because it's attractive, it's because it's easy to fit any kind of clothes on them. They're walking coat hangers.
Another thing to consider, it's a lot easier to learn anatomy looking at muscular bodies + it's more difficult to render muscular bodies than normal/hungry skeletons bodies, so if you want a challenge, using muscular people is the way to go.
>>1850123 He looks like he smells bad, but it could go either way in that he either has inherently bad BO or he wears too much Axe body spray.
I really don't like looking at his picture, I'm completely disgusted. His greasy haircut, and his shitty tattoos that look like he wrote them with a ball point pen in class. I bet he's one of those faggots that paints his nail with a pen.
>>1850257 The book don't encourage the use of rules (and says you gradually should get rid of the vp as well). The first object, apart from the problem the two vp are too close that it doesn't represent a proper cube, I think there's something wrong since the side view don't have any hidden line (which is marked with dash points) to suggest the inclination.
I like simple, minimalist designs. I want to create OCs! I don't want to just copy everything I see and I like 2d compare to 3d(I like 3d too but not hyper realistic shit, just nintendo stuff and sort...)
>>1850328 >Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is useless and half of the premises are based on faulty science. You're supposed to skip the pseudoscience and just do the exercises. Are you new to this board, anon?
>Loomis books are dry and not particularly helpful. Then you're probably just retarded, and that's alright.
>Best way to learn is to do some still life and life drawing right off the bat >right off the bat Beginners can't copy 2D shapes in front of them. What makes you think they can translate 3D forms in from of them onto a 2D plane right off the bat?
I've personally always disliked the laocoon and his sons but he's an IDEALIZED bodybuilder and he's more of an exception than a rule. Also it is importate Most bodies did have a defined musculature but it was no bodybuilder's body. I mean, it's all good if the point of your art is to exctract something beautiful out of a freak's body or something but that's pretty much it. I don't think you can do it without your art looking like it belongs in a gay strip club though, but feel free to go ahead anyways. In most other art it detracts from the experience making it feel laughable or cartoony.
I do agree that it is beneficial to do studies of somewhat muscular men to get better at muscles but as vilppu always says it shouldn't be a bodybuilder's body you study because those are quite deformed.
>>1850366 Also, fuck perspective. It's what makes people forget their painting is a representational 2D surface and that it needs a good composition. My idea is that geometric perspective hurts art more than anythung.
You kinda need to know perspective even if you don't use it. You point out that painting is a representational 2d surface, but most of the time people are trying to represent things in 3 dimensions. In it's simplest form, perspective is simply a set of tools for flattening 3 dimensions into 2. Even if you don't use exact vanishing points and whatnot, knowing the rules will improve your eye and intuitions when representing and spotting errors in 3d scenes.
>>1850488 Also, I have great troubles with anything past 30 seconds. The more time I have the more I overanalyze.
That will go away with more practice, right? As in, I prefer 30 second ones cause they look passable even when a bit sloppy but anything longer I know that I have less excuse to be all rushed and that's where I just seize up.
These were some, I think, 5 minute sketches and what hurt me the most was having to redraw so much. I have been practicing torsos, robo beans, loomis like skeletons, etc all month now and I can draw them well enough on their own, but having to apply them to an actual reference turns me into a deer.
New and improved! A splash page towards the end of my tragic story where the instigator, laying with a sword to his face by my protagonist. He is scoffing in his face as blood dribbles down his smirk expression telling my protagonist that the planet is already too late to be saved by anyone. Their war is over.
The red circle is your majority light source, and the red lights show where all the light should be hitting, most of which you have correct.
But then the issue is the blue areas should be shadow from there just not being a light source at that angle, and a lot of those are lit up in your photo.
The green is where there shouldn't be a highlight because the crouching dude is blocking the light source.
Finally the part that confuses the composition is your models aren't actually lined up in space, I traced the line that the point in space in pink for a few sections (laying guy, crouching guys upper and lower halves) and none of the line up.
For him to actually be knees spread around the guy under him they would have to be following the same line in space, as it is now he's confusingly twisted and would actually have his legs partially inside the guy below him along with having an off torso twist near his waist.
Hope that actually helps you to improve, and see why the composition feels odd.
I'm looking for some exercise for "mastering" free hand boxes in any orientation without setting up the station point and so. It'd be nice if there's a way to autocorrect the result (Idk why, but if I'm not able to check if my outputs are correct I get ansioux about it and eventually I give up).
>>1851017 I was playing with the idea to create a drawing training program.
With different modes, like gesture, etc. It would rely on user contributed data for references, like the boxes of the masses, gesture lines, etc, and the user can either draw over the reference or keep it in a separate viewspace.
When done, the user placed lines get compared with the ideal lines and then scored.
>>1851042 A box scene creator it shouldn't be hard.
I was thinking in making some python script that output a scene description: camara setting + list of box > cam is at (0,-10,2) looking at (0,0,0) and has a 30 degree len > 1x2x2 box at (0,0,0) It'd also produces the images of the actual scene (rendered with blender).
Then I'd put my paper on the screen showing the image, maybe zoom in/out, and compare.
The problem is that I don't know blender API, and if I start doing that I'd not stop with a box scene creator, but I'd add more and more features - so, I'll end up procastinating really hard.
>>1851101 >what does he mean when he says to exaggerate the figure? shouldn't you draw exactly what's infront of you? only if you want to produce a copy.
a study should be followed as closely as possible, but despite that one should not just blindly copy it, but think and analyze everything. why do the planes change there? why is this mass compressed? why does shifting this mass affect this other mass in some way? etc.
exaggeration is good for really bringing home some point too.
but I think the reason wny gesture is exaggerated is because you lose gesture when doing actual copies.
Gesture isn't just used for imagination, it's also used for copying.
You use gesture to lay in the figure but the more you measure and copy the more gesture you use since things turn more 1:1 and analytical and shit.
>>1851406 >>1851449 Hair can be very simple once you get the hang of it. It's actually one of my favorite things to draw. Your biggest problem here is that your lines aren't following the contours of the hair, which is making it look scribbly.
>>1850479 >study for value I can understand that you would pick such a picture seeing how it lacks the face and hands to get caught up in and seemingly clear shapes because of the contrast. but I would discourage you from using this particular one.
all the whites in the skintones are completely burnt, there's no information left in them. you want an image with a wider range to be able to understand the actual form. you can barely not see any shape at all or any transition from his chest to shoulders.
again, during value studies I suggest you not using such hard opacity brush and not to use all black or completely white values. try with a more narrow range of values and slowly paint the light onto your study.
you are saying that torso length and angles are confusing, then for value studies start with easier objects. doing studies of simple items but making them actually look good is something you never should stop doing. a handy exercise is to gather all white objects you can find (or paint some white objects), lit them and make a proper still life from it.
best of luck anon and feel free to ask if this doesn't make sense!
>>1851525 >you are saying that torso length and angles are confusing, then for value studies start with easier objects. doing studies of simple items but making them actually look good is something you never should stop doing. a handy exercise is to gather all white objects you can find (or paint some white objects), lit them and make a proper still life from it.
Ohhh, that sounds fun! And I can see it being useful for colorization too, seeing how the draping might bleed light on the subjects. Thanks for the suggestion.
And thanks for the feedback in general, your advice makes a lot of sense and I will follow it for my next studies.
>>1851775 There was a time when I genuinely enjoyed it. I was in my mid teens, and I'd churn out pages and pages worth of shitty anime fanart each day. I didn't care how anatomically correct it was or about shit like values and perspective and what not, I just wanted to draw my favorite characters and I had a lot of fucking fun doing it. Nowadays I still have tons of ideas but I try to draw something and I just find myself getting frustrated with how wrong everything looks, and I get embarrassed over how terrible I am for my age and how I'm still at beginner level even though I've been drawing since I was a child. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough. I just wish I could find my enthusiasm and confidence again.
Currently doing the Hampton book together with Quickposes. I consider myself a beginner but when I look at my month-old drawings I realise that they are so bad that I'm now probably somewhat of an "upper-beginner".
Posted a week ago about my problems adapting tools from Hampton, but I finally think I'm starting to get it. Going for heads soon.
>tfw I realise after the timer goes off that I forgot to flip the original >tfw I just copied it the right way up And bloody hell, I'm so damned slow. It took me one hour to copy this, although I was able to copy Stravinsky (upside-down) in one hour. What can I do to speed up?
I'm colorblind, /ic/. Not literally, but in a retarded way. Green is green, blue is blue, red is red. Color theory? Impressionism? I can't grasp it. What should I do? Killing myself is out of the question.
>>1852079 Try doing them in tandem with actual figure drawing, getting a better understanding of the body will translate into better gesture drawings for you. Also, try a bunch of different methods at different time intervals to whatever is most comfortable for you.
>>1852081 Alright, Ill try do tandem more. but Im not sure how better understanding of the human body would help since Im only capturing the motion and the not drawing the body itself. Ill put it on my agenda though.
>different methods Do you have a list of different methods? Because Ive drawn gesture multiple ways. I drew them starting with the head, starting with the arms, and starting with legs. And other times, it would be I would place the hip and shoulders line in before drawing the limbs and body.
>>1852088 It isn't just about choosing where to start from. Kimon Nicolaides said to just use scribles so long as you capture the proportions, action and rhythm, it really doesn't matter what the method is so long as it helps you internalize balance, weight and motion. Don't be afraid to draw bigger and use bolder pencil strokes, rather than trying to fit as many small ones on to a page as you can, do 3-5 to a page using all of space provided.
>>1852085 I have to learn moon in order to read the Japanese art books. But seriously
thats my problem. When I did 1 min gestures, /ic/ said that they are not gestures, they were contours. So then I started doing these 20-30 sec gestures, where all Im trying to do is capture the rhythm of the body. Im wondering, how do I add more to my gestures without being contour drawings.
>>1852079 i have been doing 2 minute gestures for a week now. i cant get the hang of 30 sec gestures and honestly i dont care. 2 minute gestures give you the needed time to actually make the pose more exaggerated and 3 dimensional. it also lets you play around a lot more with the lines and this helping you create your own form language.
>>1852097 Well, I can draw bigger, work on capturing the proportions, and draw the gestures with scribbles. But I just dont get it. what differentiates the drawings in your pic and actual contour drawings? The drawing in your pic shows the shapes the human body. How is he capturing the rhythm without making a stick figure like drawing?
Sorry if I sound stubborn, im just afraid of drawing contour instead of gesture again. >>1852100 well, this goes along with my problem, how do I add more shit to my gesture? I have tried line weight before, but I dont get where on the gesture you are suppose to make lines bold or thin. And by making it more exaggerated, would that mean adding more lines to emphasize the action of the figure?
>>1852107 You're over thinking it. Just keep drawing and experimenting until you find a way that you feel is best for capturing motion without worrying about construction, there is no single ideal way to draw gesture and pretty much every artist comes up with their own way they feel works best.
>>1852468 play around with it some more. so the perspective and proportions should be a lot better. i know my lines suck. usually its not that bad but i was rushing it and im in a really irritated mood
>>1852778 im a beginner too my so opinion might not count for shit. if youre a beginner you probably dont have the skill to draw whats in your head so theres that. but you do need practice. i dont think theres any same in redoing a drawing later when you think youre ready to make it look a lot better
I was trying to do a construction study (upside-down, since faces specifically give me compulsive symbol drawing disease), and somehow the left side of this guy's face shrunk considerably, but I can't figure out what went particularly wrong getting there.
Yes the chicken scratch is bad, I'm trying to get a good idea of form before I work on it. Also drawing lines slowly, even smoothly, makes them very squiggly at the pixel level with my tablet, not sure if I'm just shakyhands or if it's an issue with the tablet.
>>1853098 you've got the "maybe if i draw a million lines one of them will be right" disease. you'll work much faster and do many more studies if you just stick to as few lines as possible. if you fuck it up so be it. you won't learn as fast if you keep with this nasty habit.
How important would you guys say it is to learn every nook and cranny of the human anatomy? I'm all for learning the muscles but I feel like learning every structure of the skeleton would be a little too much. Could I get away with believable bodies without learning the whole thing and just learning the important parts? Skull/spine/ribs/pelvis/elbows/knee caps?
Hey I got a reference pic from a website in the sticky and drew it. It took me a whole hour is that a long time or is it normal when just starting out. Also what in specific should I work on? Sry I couldn't size it down..
>>1853198 >>1853205 > every thread besides the drawthread is cancer > if you not telling everyone that their art is the biggest piece of shit you've ever seen, and then telling them to slit their wrists, it's a hugbox
fuck off. i hope some day you faggots realize that being the exact opposite of a hugbox is just as bad.
all that needs to happen in a critique is that you tell what's wrong with the piece. that's it. You don't need to tell them to go die in a fire or something.
What brushes setting do you guys use for rendering? I always have a hard time dealing with opacity mainly because it create overlaps that look really amateur. Flow doesn't make sense for me either and I just randomly adjust it when I paint.
Anyone else have a hard time finishing things? I'm fine with finishing simple drawings but once I go to do some of the studies posted in here ill get done base values and then just rage quit cause I don't have the skill or something ha.
I'm struggling with the concepts of "studying" and "applying". If I were to study a page from Hampton, wouldn't I try to understand his logic, then maybe consciously copy some of his examples, and so try to apply it to real life and/or photo studies and then finally attempt it from imagination?
I've drawn 4 upside down Igor Stravinsky's and every time my "scale" or something is off. The first time half his body went off the page, the second time the same thing happened only slightly better. The third and fourth times his head and a little bit of hit body wouldn't fit.
I can't seem to find anyone else that's had similar problems. I try to plan out how i'm going to draw it before I start but it never comes out right. I tried a few more upside down drawings and on every one of them I run out of space to draw. Should I just keep drawing them, running out of room, and hoping I stop at some point?
The solution would probably be to place marks indicating the extremities or furthest points of the drawing, and then for you to follow or stay in those boundaries. The better solution though would be to stop drawing so many upside down Igor Stravinsky's. Read further into BettyEdward's book (if you're doing it) for more techniques when it comes to drawing down what you see. Relate key points (e.g. a hand to a face) with straight horizontal/vertical/diagonal lines, pay attention to negative space, all the good stuff man.
>>1853965 not the guy you are quoting but my major shortcoming is apparently not reliably retaining anything I do. It's like my mind is a sieve that doesn't hold art memories even after hours of studies.
I know that there are different ways of learning the same thing but I dont know how to phrase my problem to myself.
For example. the less I think the more fun I have and my drawings become looser and after some warm up competent, but this is only happens when I'm doing ... ah.
I'll just shut up and draw more. a bit over a month of exlucisively studying torsos and I still fall apart when constructing them.
10000 hours, right? I should only worry after 10000 hours, right? Maybe I should try a little bit of booze to loosen up.
A bit confused in Keys to Drawing. The exercises mention how much time to dedicate to a drawing, and for the most part it's been just about right.
But right now, I'm with a drawing that has taken me forever to do and I'm nowhere near done, while the author mentioned 30-40 minutes. Am I thinking too much, being too much of a perfectionist? Should I just try to accomplish the drawing in the mentioned time even if it turns out crappy?
I notice that most of the pictures in the book have been very scribbly and only focus on the overall appearance, without worrying that much about tiny details, which is what I'm doing.
>>1854024 >but I don't have the materials she calls for at a certain point like a "viewfinder" I was going through that book, too. I gave up on in about 1/3 through and switched to Keys to Drawing, precisely because of the materials required.
Actually I would recommend to do "Fundamentals of Perspective 1-3 (gnomon)" then scott robertson and after that you have an option: Work on portraits? Loomis head, Bridgeman ( nice woman faces), portrait drawing courses... Work on Figure? Lot of anatomy books and courses, You cant miss them ;)
I have an issue with my drawings, and perhaps not showing images may not be necessary, but...
Reading up on Drawing on the Right Side of your Brain, I have a lot of trouble drawing the Chair exercise but I moved on. However, now it wants me to go about drawing down a hallway from an open door.
Thing is, my door is cracked half way, and I can't seem to draw the door evenly for the life of me. Every time I draw the door, it always overlaps past the other end to the nearest wall. It doesn't stay within the frame of the door window.
Drawing this 5 times, I did the same exact mistake all 5 times. Why is this?
>>1855497 >>1855499 Man, just draw it. We love to overcomplicate things here on /ic/. Overthinking and sticking to rules kills creativity. Start anywhere you like and just draw what you see. It's easy.
>>1855505 Why don't you try drawing in graphite instead of digital?
That's what I do. You have better control of your hand, everything is grey by force and you learn not to make mistakes by starting over if something doesn't work instead of meticulously covering all your big mistakes.
How do I adjust to drawing with a tablet? I find drawing on paper much easier but I don't have a scanner (not that my art is any good anyway). When I use a tablet I feel like I have less control over the stylus than I do over a pencil. Any ideas?
>>1855640 your working to dark, without enough contrast, drawing from ref is essentially pushing contrast because that adds readability. Your highlights aren't bright or big enough and your mid tones are to close to your darks. Making a palette ahead of time of the extremes is useful to give you a sense of what to do, right now you really only have two tones and they are too close together to dynamically show form.
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