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Transgender rights throughout history

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Thread replies: 98
Thread images: 6

What were the rights of transgender people throughout various empires and historical epochs?

Were the "two spirits" in native America a precursor to modern transgenders?

Was the Roman emperor Elagabalus?

Did Christianity instill a culture of heteronormativity in Europe that stifled gay and trans expression?

Pic related.
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>>89051
Fuck. I hope so
>>
>heteronormativity

When you are 1% of a 1% you can't say you are normal.

Sorry faggot.
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>>89051

the conception of femininity and masculinity in many cultures in times pased wasnt realy compatible with how we see it today and was mostly tied to religious and occult ideas of how reality works

there was never any ''expression'' in the way you think of it

it always had a religious, magical or political function, or it was just a question of people enyoing themselves some sodomy, other than that it was seen as a abberation and abomination, or just a higly unhigienic way to use someone else as a masturbation tool, only if it was elevated to a higher function could it be openly ''expressed'', othervise it was hunted down, or tolerated in silence
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>>89051
Of course, why wouldn't people have suffered from the same illnesses.
But i assume they weren't mutilated back then.
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WE WUZ QUEENS
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>>89172

that depends on the where and the when
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There's a third gender in Hunduism and they its own caste which is associated with an entity formed from Shiva merging with a godess
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara
It's pretty interesting, but it's still the caste system so it's awful
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>>89213
Does it, really?
And here i thought all cultures had the same laws and traditions.
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>>89061
Heteros are 0.01% of the population?
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>>89281
it's even lower on imageboards
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>>89051
>rights
>heteronormativity

Where the fuck do you people come from. What kind of fucked up shit are you rewriting history into?
>>
History isn't linear.

Elagabalus would have been seen as a total degenerate piece of shit in the days of the Republic, and still mostly was in his own days, it's just that nobody cared about anything enough anymore to bother putting an end to that shit (well one of the guard corps eventually did).

His existence is just a symptom of a dying civilisation in the end stages of degeneracy, the sort we're headint towards as well.
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>>89322

Take your fucking /pol/ tier shit out of here.

We're fucking DONE with history as the study of "great men," wars and generals.

Oppressed minorities have been fucking brutally written out of history and we're not going to take it anymore.

From now on, history is going to be the study of how gays, women and transgenders were treated in various empires and historical epochs.

And pro tip, Christian-influenced Europe was probably the worst offender.

If you don't like it, FIND ANOTHER PLANET TO LIVE ON.
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>>89061
Homosexuality is a spectrum 30% of people are somewhere in the gay rainbow. The ancient Greeks were very into Gay culture.
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>>89373
I cannot even fucking tell if you're sarcastic anymore.

How did we get here. What historic event caused people like you to not get institutionalized

>>89378
>Homosexuality is a spectrum 30% of people are somewhere in the gay rainbow

Bullshit. Only 5% people at most identify as LGBBQTARD+++

>The ancient Greeks were very into Gay culture.

Socrates got killed on the accusation of promoting homosexuality.
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>>89051
>Elagabalus
I want to cum into his boypussy.
What a femboy slut desu.
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>>89373
Nice semi-ironic troll and everything, but the shit you're describing has been dominating discourse since 1968. Today it's dying, avant-garde thinking is reactionary. The next few decades will be hard on post-structuralist faggotry.
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>>89378
complete bullshit faggot
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>>89390
I thought "Corrupting youth" was more based on his thinking process?
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>>89051
Interesting curiosity for the thread.

In the islamic republic of Iran, like in many other muslim nations with law inspired on islamic values, homosexuality is illegal and harshly punished. But apparently Muhammad didn't say anything on transexuals, so that's fair game. In fact, the republic encourages all homos to reveal themselves and have sex changing surgery. The state covers a part of the cost of the operation.

This doesn't reflect the people opinion on homosexuality or transexuality, though.
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>>89414
Introducing new gods was a separate accusation, much like doing drugs and killing someone are taken separately in the same sentence.
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>>89390
>What historic event caused people like you to not get institutionalized
Most likely it was the historical event where being curious about how minorities lived in the past wasn't classified as a mental illness.

>Socrates got killed on the accusation of promoting homosexuality.
It was actually a much vaguer accusation of "corrupting the youth."
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>>89390
> identify

Heteronormativity hello!!

Kinda proves the OPs point.
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>>89373
Take your tumblr tier shit out of here.
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>>89446
How the fuck can you determine how people are gay other than some retarded bullshit statistics made by schizophrenics?

>>89443
>It was actually a much vaguer accusation of "corrupting the youth."

The homosexuality version is what I heard.
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>>89373
Fuck you. We won the war and as such I'll take any side I want and hold any opinion I want, you statist prick
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>>89443
He was advocating dropping out to the youth.
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>>89051
"heteronormativity" as you call it was the norm in every single fucking culture whether you like it or not.

Romans and Greeks were not "gay" as you think. But there were different cultural values associated with manliness. For them, being gay was fucking wrong, since an homosexual took the place of a women and wanted to be a women which was an humiliating thing to do on itself. who on his sane mind wanted to be a women? they saw these people with contempt but, for them there was nothing wrong in plowing their arseholes like they would a women's as if they were stealing the homo's remaining manhood by doing so.

in fact there's a poem written by a roman guy named Catullus in which he replies to a couple of guys who called him a homo for being, a poet.

Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo,
Aureli pathice et cinaede Furi,
qui me ex versiculis meis putastis,
quod sunt molliculi, parum pudicum.
Nam castum esse decet pium poetam
ipsum, versiculos nihil necessest;
qui tum denique habent salem ac leporem,
si sunt molliculi ac parum pudici
et quod pruriat incitare possunt,
non dico pueris, sed his pilosis
qui duros nequeunt movere lumbos.
Vos, quod milia multa basiorum
legistis, male me marem putatis?
Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.


I will sodomize you and face-fuck you,
bottom Aurelius and catamite Furius,
you who think, because my poems
are sensitive, that I have no shame.
For it's proper for a devoted poet to be moral
himself, [but] in no way is it necessary for his poems.
In point of fact, these have wit and charm,
if they are sensitive and a little shameless,
and can arouse an itch,
and I don't mean in boys, but in those hairy old men
who can't get it up.
Because you've read my countless kisses,
you think less of me as a man?
I will sodomize you and face-fuck you.


He was literally willing to prove how manly he was by plowing and face fucking two men.
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>>89547
>He was literally willing to prove how manly he was by plowing and face fucking two men.
That is my kind of sexuality.

Though I am not homo enough to fuck very manly men.
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>>89606
you'd be a perfectly straight human being in Rome should you avoid kissing or touching other men's dicks.

LITERALLY

there are many cultures today that still do this kind of thing, I find it funny because I grew up in a small town in Sinaloa, a place that still share this collective thinking and homosexuals in such society are the lowest of the low. the cheapest of all whores and are constantly humiliated by manly alpha men fucking them.

in Cuba they still do this, and, as in sinaloa they have a term for men who viciously like to fuck other men in the butt "Bubarron" for cubans and "mayates" for sinaloenses. but most people don't think there's something wrong with them.
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>>89547
But "sexuality" is a 19th century concept basically.

Sodomy was an action that both heteros and homos could perform.

There is literally nothing wrong with being a faggot though
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>>89647
>should you avoid kissing or touching other men's dicks.
Yeah, I dont want that.

Though I want a cute boyfriend, not really interested in random hookups.

>LITERALLY
I know man, I think sexuality is a meme anyway.
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>>89650
>>>/lit/
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>>89704
Not sure I get your drift friendorino
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>>89650
>>89650
>There is literally nothing wrong with being a faggot though
Not saying there is, but we shan't rewrite history. We shall say things as they are.

>>89684
>Though I want a cute boyfriend, not really interested in random hookups.
y-you for-got to s-say no h-homo
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>>89728
Why are you stuttering, senpai?
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>>89172
Upvotes to the left. /his/ is not /pol/, take your bait elsewhere.
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This "rights" faggotry didn't kick out until the enlightement.
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>>89051
I'm amazed at the lack of Hijra mentions in this thread or Muslim counties and some of there gender bluring traditions(central asian ones)
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>>89795
>MUH /POL/
>MUH /POL/
>MUH /POL/

Are you this insecure about people having different opinions? Does this board have to be a leftist hugbox to present your own point of view?
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>be history lover
>find out /his/ finally got added
>while having many controversial opinions, many relevant to history myself, I understand that a /pol/ invasion would be terrible for the board
>decide to come here to start some good discussion and mediate between the inevitable arguments
>this is the first fucking thread I see.
FUCK. YOU. ALL.
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>>89849
All I want is a bf who loves history as much as I do and cuddle with him while we listen to the newest hardcore history episode.
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>>89834
>Obvious bait
>"Wheh! Wheh! You're so insecure! You only want a hugbox!"

The opinion itself is not the problem really.
But you formulated it in a way that was clearly a /pol/ bait.
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>>89373
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>>89934
In what way should he have formulated it that wouldn't make it "/pol/ bait" in your eyes?
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>>90000
Epic get Marco Brolo
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>>89834
Fuck off, it was clearly a /pol/ opinion.
Terming lgbt people as mentally insane is precisely a /hispol/ post.

Fuck you
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>>90039
>i-if it's not Tumblr, it's /pol/!
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>>90039
>lgbt people
Only trannies, though. Even /lgbt/ calls them insane.
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>>90062
Well, they simply aren't so I don't know what we are arguing about
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>>90039
>Terming lgbt people as mentally insane
Is the medically correct word. Only reason it's not standard is due to political correctness. Transsexuals are most definitely mentally insane, no matter what your tumblr blogs say.
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>>89873
You do you anon.
I'd call you a fag but all I want is a huge muscly futagirl to listen to music with and rape me.
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>>90093
>Well, they simply aren't
Well that's just your opinion, man.
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>>90093
If a person thinks he's Superman, we'd call him insane. If a person who is black thinks he's white, we'd call him insane. If a person who is man but calls himself woman, we should logically classify him as insane. Only reason it's not so is due to political correctness and feelings taking priority over logic debates.
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>>90103
>I'd call you a fag
>but all I want is a huge muscly futagirl to listen to music with and rape me.
Good, you didn't call me a fag, since you are more of a faggot than I am.
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>>89051
>>>/lgbt/
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>>89051
I'd imagine freaks dressed up like ladies in the past, yes.
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>>90142
As fucking if.
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>>89051
>What were the rights of transgender people throughout various empires and historical epochs?

can't speak about non-euro cultures, as I'm not familiar, but for the most part, indo-european societies had a general distinction of "manly vs unmanly" rather than "hetero vs. homo" division we see now.

Generally, this ends up expressing in like fashion to >>89547 , that is, where things seem odd to our "homo v. hetero" perceptions of things.

Another example would be the icelandic crime of "ergi", which means "unmanliness". You could be charged with it for being a faggot, being impotent, being unwilling to defend yourself, not supporting your family, or for simply not killing the fucker who accused you of it on the spot (that is, if you don't kill the person who calls you a bitch, you must indeed be one). It was punishable by full outlawry, which is the closest thing to a death sentence in free state icelandic law...

The germanic tribes, according to tacitus, executed homosexuals by drowning them in bogs, covered in wattle mats so as to "hide their shame".

>Did Christianity instill a culture of heteronormativity in Europe that stifled gay and trans expression?

not so much as one would think. European "manly v. unmanly" ethics would have already made modern-style "gay couples" into laughing stocks, if not outright opening them up to execution of some kind, and transsexuals were equally derided in the few cases I can think of off the top of my head.

christianity's biggest contributions to sexual ethics in european lands would be it's prohibitions against:
>prostitution
>pederasty
>abortion/infanticide
and yes, I mean abortion. see the didache, which specifically prohibits such.
>divorce

These are things the pagan european would have accepted before christendom that would have become hard to drop afterwards.
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>>90113
It's not an opinion, it's neuropsychology.
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>>89378
There was no gay culture.
They were primarily into pedophilia and men who took it up were frowned upon.
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>>90252
You want to get fucked in the ass and suck the dick of a tranny.

I want to totally dominate cute guys sexually.

I have the Roman, Greeks and Vikings to back me up, who do you have?
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>>89490
You can actually read the fucking source which was 70 pages long.
It wasn't because of his pedophilia.
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>>89357
>>89051
You're an Aussie shit poster most likely or really mentally retard Turd so please get the fuck out and back to /pol/ Reddit or wherever.
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>>90329
Uh, who the fuck said anything about gross-ass trannies?
I'm talking about a fictional, biologically impossible sex that has penises but also has extremely feminine or masculine body types.
In real life I only fug girls.
Though I would be down with pegging or fugging a tranny
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>>89378
Do you get your history from Buzzfeed?
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>>90425
I'm not trying to bully you here, but the Romans would literally see me as straight, while I fuck the boypucci of a twink and see you as effeminate and the butt of jokes when pegged by your gf with a wee wee.
>>
>>90329
>>90457
There is no definitive evidence of latent homosexuality in Greek times besides the city of Athens.
Romans would by no means see you as normal and you kill you for being a massive faggot.
>>/lgbt/
>>
>>90495
Well, I guess you're right if we consider that I would also be in love with a cute guy and not just fuck him.
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>>90525
Hedonism is not love you faggot piece of shit
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>>90571
I am actually quite repelled by slutty behavior. I just want to be with one who is well-adjusted and not a huge faggy slut.
>>
>>90495

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Classical_period

>In Ancient Rome the young male body remained a focus of male sexual attention, but relationships were between older free men and slaves or freed youths who took the receptive role in sex. All the emperors with the exception of Claudius took male lovers. The Hellenophile emperor Hadrian is renowned for his relationship with Antinous,
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>>90604
You're spam posting in this thread about soley desiring to fuck "boipucci" proves other wise, you have no desires other than sexual ones with a man, that's entirely a fact. You have a fetishism or a mental disorder
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>>90615
I didn't say anything about Rome.
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>>90623
>Implying my feels are only sexual
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>>90634
>Romans would by no means see you as normal and you kill you for being a massive faggot.
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>>90642
They are, there are no feelings for reproduction, there are nothing but disallusioned desire for the love of a women through a man; for it requires no responsibility and no commitment.
You can most likley live openly and whatever.

Homosexuality will perish upon the return of a difficult lifestyle.
>>
>>90647
>>90623
Being a massive faggot and taking male servants for sexual pleasure is different.
>>
>>90676
do you have any studies or something like that, which might show that guys with a straight history that loose themselves to "homosexuality" suffer negative consequnces from that?
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>>90707
Homosexuals have an increased number of partners, increased drug useage, higher rate of STDs, raise children less effectively than traditional couples, and are massive faggots.
Homosexuality would always be a negative.
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>>90457
>implying it's some thing I flaunt all over
Pretty much everyone has secret fetishes, and it often reflects the opposite of their character.
Today, you're the weak feminine one and I'm just me with secret fetishes.
I really don't have anythinng against gays though
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>>90754
>Today, you're the weak feminine one
I'm not feminine though, I strive for masculinity in myself.
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>>89051

>stifled trans expression

What the fuck does this mean

Do we currently stifle "schizophrenic" expression?

or Bi-polar expression?
>>
>>89357

What the fuck are you talking about?

He was a huge embarrassment and murdered with his body dragged through the streets for the people to see.

Rome continued for long after him
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>>90307
Back it up then, if it's not an opinion. Enlighten us with this neuropsychological proof that the dysmorphic and deluded should be indulged and not treated. Show your evidence, and let your assertions stand or fall on the strength of it.
>He won't.
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>>90780
Touché
>>
>>90307
I hope that you are not referring to the study that showed different brainstructure in males after they were poisoned with estrogen.
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>>90307
Actually, it's neuropsychology that gender dysmorphia is a metal illness. As many as 7 in 10 people who get sex changes kill themselves.
>>
Were transexuals actually a thing? I get that some woman dressed like men since being a woman sucked for most of history, but I can't imagine anyone thinking they were supposed to be the other gender until recent history. It really seems to be a first world problem more than anything else.
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>>91127
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galli

These priests castrated themselves and dressed in women's clothing.
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>>91127
>I get that some woman dressed like men since being a woman sucked for most of history
Did you learn this from anime?
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>>91127
Elgaboypussy wanted to pay a surgeon to give him female genitalia.

I'm glad sex change wasnt possible back then, boymode is too cute.
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>>90093
If I were to claim that I'm pre-op trans-race, a Thai man born in the body of a white man, would that hold any legitimacy? Not just to think "I agree with or identify with this culture," but "I am a member of this people and my body does not reflect this."
>>
>>90834
Yes, actually

People with mental illnesses are treated like dirt
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>>91271
He was then drug through the streets like a faggot.
Same will happen with you, pedophile
>>
Reading about elagabalus always makes my dick so hard

>>92043
stay in your containment board
>>
>>92235
>>>/lgbt/
Stay in yours.
I'm stating facts here, you're fetishizing
Thread posts: 98
Thread images: 6


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