Were the Japanese justified during WWII or did they deserve the bomb?

Whatever the answer: at least we got Godzilla out of it.

who cares about the method as long as you achieve the results right

>>87747
That's two different questions you've just asked. You're asking (1) if Japan's conduct throughout the war was justifiable given the circumstances and (2) did their behavior merit the bombings. None of their outstanding behavior was justifiable during the war, it was a level of brutality not seen in the region since the mongols. That being said they deserved it in as much as it was the only way (given what we know) that could be forced to surrender without out a land invasion. But the suffering it inflicted upon the people of Tokyo, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima was utterly reprehensible, make no mistake.

Deserve it? They literally asked for it. When you shoot people for surrendering that is a clear signal you want no holds barred slaughter and nukes were a perfect response to that.

>>87747
>Were the Japanese justified during WWII
Nope

For one, they joined the League of Nations. Which told members NO MORE COLONIZING PEOPLE, OK. EVERYONE STICK WITH THE COLONIES THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. Japan was late in the imperialism game and is superbutthurt due to this and started pulling the race cards going YOU'RE JUST AGAINST ME COZ IM ASIAN.

>>87747
i dont know the answer for your questions but they turned into some strange basterds after those bombs

>>87900
The bomb was a warning shot at the Russians, not actually meant for the Japanese. If there was no Russian threat we would have gone through a land invasion.

>>87747
Nothing can justify killing civillians
'Deserving the bomb' doesnt even make sense
What did the womans and kids do that was so bad and evil they had to be melted down alive?

But then again, thats what wars do. It gives the illusion that these event can be 'justified' because 'there was no other way'

Same applies to us soldiers, what the fuck they did so wrong they had to die meaninglessly on the foreign rock?? Thats just as ridiculous as the bombing itself

>>88051
That's the dumbest, most revisionist idea out there as to why the bombs were dropped. Do have any idea how many would have died on both sides if they had done that? Just look at the casualty rates in Okinawa, and that wasn't even the mainland.

Not claiming it was a factor in the decision, but what isn't very often discussed is how the Japanese taught the civilians as well as the soldiers that death was infinitely preferable to surrender, and the Americans would do to them what their own men were did the Chinese in Nanjing. They had classes on suicide bombing tanks for elementary kids at this point and were instructing parents to murder their children before allowing the Americans to get their hands on them.

>>88315
You underestimate how unpopular the bomb option was. It was at least as unpopular as a land invasion. Not to mention Japan was already willing to surrender, but it was also going to surrender to the Russians, and the US wanted a unconditional surrender solely to the US so it could dictate terms leading into the future. What forced the bombs was a strategic decision to cockblock Russia.

File: European colonization of Asia.jpg (663KB, 1335x868px) Image search: [Google]

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>>87747
two different questions

Were the Japanese justified in WWII: I'm sure if they won we'd think so. Personally I think not. But most wars aren't especially if you are the aggressor. They made some points about European colonialism in Asia, but the fact is they invaded China.

Did they deserve the bomb:
Did civilians who had nothing to do with the war deserve to die? No.
Is that how modern wars are fought, by targeting infrastructure and civilians? Yes.
Should the apologize or be punished? No, that's war.

>>88353
Everything in this post is false. Nobody was fully aware of just how toxic and deadly radioactive fallout was at this time. The army's plan for invading Japan involved clearing a path through it's coastal defenses with a nuclear bombardment, sending troops in immediately thereafter, having them occupy territory glowing with fallout. This lack of awareness was present long after the war ended, with atomic testing involving soldiers observing from beyond the blast zone, but within the area exposed to fallout. Most of the intelligence on the effects of radiation on the human body came from studies on the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki themselves.

Japan was still unwilling to surrender by this time, having drawn up plans to stall both US and Soviet invasions in an absolute bloody quagmire involving every single man, woman, and child in the areas under attack. The idea was to cause enough casualties on the invaders that they would eventually give up and agree to a cease fire instead of unconditional surrender, keeping the Emperor as the head of state. These were the most hardline fascists in the state at the time, and there was some very interesting debating that went on within their number after the bombs fell, concluding with several mass assassinations to ensure surrender happened on their terms. But all of this is beside the point, as we have no evidence the US intelligence had any idea what they were thinking at the time.

>>87747
>this is a white man's neighborhood
>it's literally a woman

>>88464
We're actually going through this part right now, here in Japan.

You might like some first hand opinions upon the matter from the 30s, starting around page 8 until 11.
>this board doesn't support pdf
Wtf?

http://docdro.id/DB41z6M

>>87747
It doesn't matter whether they deserved it. It was a total war and everything that would bring a nation closer to victory was justified.

>>87747
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3doYSqBWhZI

The people that were killed by the bombs were innocent people, not soldiers or politicians so those people didn't deserve the bomb.

> The bomb

Wasn't even what drove them into surrendering really.

That was the threat of invasion by the Soviets.

>>88621
>this board doesn't support pdf

we really need this something awful

>>87747

The thing is, people forget that we were already firebombing Tokyo and there's even a theory out there that the Japanese were already pretty much ready to surrender giving more credence to the idea that we just wanted to show off the bomb, but I havent really looked into it more.

Of course, firebombing in general isn't much better than airbusting a nuke over a city since both methods don't distinguish between civilian and military targets, but given what the Japanese did to the Chinese and Koreans, the (militarily) unprovoked outset of the war, and the brutality of the Japanese soldiers towards POWs, I don't blame Truman considering how hellish a ground war in Japan would have been.

>>88464
>They made some points about European colonialism in Asia

Not really, considering that once they took over the ended up killing millions of Indonesians, Burmese, Vietnamese, Filipinos, etc. They also instituted much more brutal labor systems and attempted to eliminate local cultures by forcing the natives to learn Japanese.

All their talk of a "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" was just rhetoric. They just wanted to be the ones controlling the labor and resources of the region instead of the European powers.

Nobody deserves a fucking atomic bomb you idiot.
I'd argue that not even Nazi Germany deserved that.

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>>87747
>Were the Japanese justified during WWII or did they deserve the bomb?

Their justification was that the japanese king is a divine being who is prophesied to rule all of humanity and the gods would be mad if he wasnt allowed to do so.

So... no. I dont think they had a point.

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>>89394
>Japanese king
>prophesied
>rule all humanity
>gods would be mad
Wow...

People that argue against the bomb being justified or for some imaginary Soviet threat that the Japanese were supposedly terrified of are literally we wuz kings n queens tier.

>>88072
The dumbfuck japs worshipped their leader like a God, they would not surrender. The bombs has to be dropped, you think that the Japanese would ever just put down their weapons and say "yea fuck our ruler who we think is a god"? No. We had to bomb the fuck out of them to make them wake up.

>>89169
Except they didn't do that.

Let's not get all muh 6 trillion. Also, there's a monument to the Japanese military in Indonesia you can go to today.

Japanese did teach Japanese in Hong Kong, Guam, and other places were the administrative language was English or French, to be the new Lingua Franca. Why would the new language be various European languages? It's not like the "local culture" was European, even though it was imposed on them.

All I said was they made some points, and what you are chastising the Japanese for is exactly what the Europeans did.
I'm not condoning the Japanese, but I'm also not holding them to double standards.

>>89537
Well or the US could have not pressed for unconditional surrender, and made some conditions, such as guaranteeing the emperor's life.

Not saying they had to or should have done the above, I'm just saying they didn't "have to" drop two bombs in like 30 days.

The reason why the Japanese weren't going to surrender is because the US government basically saying they were going to hang the emperor, and wipe the Japanese from the face of the earth.