Why do black people believe that the ancient Egyptians were black?

Middle class, bourgeois blacks need a founding culture/myth/civilization that looks good to better fit into white society.

>>84726

File: 1433366351729.jpg (152KB, 899x315px) Image search: [Google]

152KB, 899x315px

>>84628
No Egyptians were not black Africans, anyone claiming such a thing is historically illiterate. Egyptians are Egyptian, the same copper-to-tan people who live there now are presumed to have lived along that river since it first began to flow. Nubians did rule Egypt briefly, but they were never the majority of the population and most pharaohs were not black.
>>84726
Also this.

>>84787
>>84628
I keep seeing this picture posted in response to this basic OP bait template so often that I'm starting to suspect samefaggotry.

File: 1443139864467.jpg (173KB, 1024x794px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 1024x794px

>>84799
It comes from an old Egyptian chest I think. It comes up a lot in these kinds of threads because it plainly shows Egyptians fighting black Africans, with clear distinctions between them.

This thread happens on /pol/ at least once a day, and that pic is basically always one of the first ten responses.

Why don't they understand that their ancestors are from the other side of Africa?

>>84838
I've seen it here three times today.

Like, holy shit, we get it, you don't like black people. Can you stop making this thread?

>>84628
I'm not saying Egyptians or Semitic people are white, but whiteys love to call them white when it's convenient and not white when it isn't.

It's like whenever I see a statistic for White people instead of non-Hispanic Whites, but most white people don't consider Hispanics to be White.

File: 1439233136636.jpg (69KB, 423x588px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 423x588px

>>84853
It's the same way as many dumbass Mexicans claiming to be Aztecs when in reality, many of them are probably the descendants of the other Indian tribes that were their subjects. They learn this shit in Chicano Studies classes.
So for blacks, I blame African-American Studies.

>yfw you are working on your masters on Latin American History and have to work with these fuckers from time to time

>>84628
I'm black and I know for a fact that blacks were ,at best ,a minority in Ancient Egypt

>>84931
What the fuck?
That wasn't my pic.

>>84905
I made this thread for the first time and I don't visit pol. I just noticed these twitter pics on imgur and I decided to ask about it but when I googled I only really found rupert murdoc cunt and this person I couldnt find the ones i wanted

File: Ramses_IIs_seger_över_Chetafolket_och_stormningen_av_Dapur,_Nordisk_familjebok[1].png (2MB, 2481x1149px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2481x1149px

>>84787
>>84838
I always see these same pictures being posted
but how about this one with the very same Rhamses II conquering semitic Hitites, consider these are middle easterners, this is how egyptians saw them
Even /pol/acks now have a hard time saying middle easterners are white so what does that say about the egyptians

>>84986
It's an error that happens sometimes when two pictures get posted at the exact same time or some shit.

>>84911
>call them white when it's convenient and not white when it isn't.
this too
why do white people do this? inferiority complex? They don't want to have ever been irrelevant in history?

Some simply don't know any better and don't care to. The ones who do know better are simply jealous, and won't believe that black civilizations simply didn't make the same contribution as others. As in, they think it's a conspiracy, and counteracting lies with lies is fair.

>>85047
Egyptians weren't white or black, they were a middle eastern people whose skin color ranged from light tan to very dark reddish copper. That is to say, exactly what they look like today.

>>84931
>Modern Mexicans
>Literally descendants of Spaniards
>WE WERE AMERINDIANS ESE I'M SERIOUS
Could you imagine if white Americans tried this bull?

File: ramesses-ii-in-battle-ricardmn-photography[1].jpg (158KB, 900x486px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 900x486px

>>85047
and another ramsi the 2nd conquering more nubians, care to explain why some of those nubians have the exact same skin color as our dear pharaoh?

>>85103
>ramsi

File: Queen_Tuya.jpg (35KB, 379x600px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 379x600px

Isn't that the film that got Sigourney Weaver to play Tuya

File: 1446470797130.jpg (427KB, 2400x1430px) Image search: [Google]

427KB, 2400x1430px

>>84628

They weren't really "black", but they weren't "white" either. Their phenotype was more like Northeast Africans, like Somalis or Bejas.

File: 1446335058128s.jpg (3KB, 68x124px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 68x124px

>white people saying Egyptians were white
>black people saying Egyptians were black

Can we all just put personal biases aside for fucking once and say that the Egyptians were offshoots both culturally and genetically of ancient Bedouin populations?

>>85047
>semitic Hitites,
you konw that they werent semetic right?

>>84628
>twitter
>why do __ people think ___
>a fucking movie

Yep, this is /pol/s version of politics. Do you need to be redpilled on popcorn, OP?

>>85061
Yes, it's just like how Europeans like to pretend they have Greco-Roman roots.

>>85278

>Ignoring how massively the Roman Empire shaped western culture

Am I...being baited?

>>85233
No
They were actually of asianic decent

>>85047
middle easterners have never been white. that's common fact.
italians, spanish, mediterranean people in general, are also not white.

>>85233
nobody ever claims egyptians were white tho.

>>84960
I wonder how many black people are on this website. What's your take on black historY? I think it's pretty cool but sadly oral and everything being built from mud including the marvels is a shame considering white people probably destroyed most of it

>>85047
> semitic Hitites

Hittites were not Semetic

>>85298
That doesn't mean they have greco roman roots now does it? The nordic people were not a part of the roman empire at all

File: 1446351323166.jpg (44KB, 430x294px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 430x294px

>>85233
Here's the range of opinions.

>White Nationalists
Everyone important was White, including Egyptians. But Modern Egyptians aren't white, there's no relationship between them and the ancient Egyptians. [Provably False]

>Normal White People
Egyptians were Egyptian. I'm not sure what that means but I think there are still Egyptians around today, so they probably deserve credit for Egyptian culture, not African Americans who were mostly taken from the opposite side of Africa. [Probably Correct]

>Black people
Egyptians weren't White. They were an African civilization. [Probably Correct]

>Black Nationalists
Egyptians were Black, we wuz royalty senpai. Cleopatra wuz a black woman [Provably False]

>West Asians
Will you faggots stop trying to steal our history to make up for having been losers 3000 years ago?

>East Asians
What, the Goa'uld? Those were real!?

>>85097
The vast majority of Mexicans have something like 30-70 percent native american DNA. That's referring to the mestizo majority, nevermind the literal amerindian populations in the country. Only about 10 percent of the population is mostly "white." It's not really comparable to Americans where the percentages of Amerindian DNA is tiny (<10% is the norm in all but "native american" groups). So yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.

I say this as a Mexican that's gotten genetic testing done, I look "white" with green eyes and dirty blonde hair, 6'2" etc. and was suprised to find I'm actually 35% native american and have native mitochondrial DNA.

>>85097
Actually, some of them do.

I once knew this guy who swore up and down that he was cherokee because his great uncle twice removed was cherokee.

His house was full of dreamcatchers and feathers and shit and he would go on about spirit animals.

Crazy fucker

>>85201
This guy has it right. Modern Egyptians are mostly Arabs, so they too have it wrong when they claim to be the descendants of Ancient Egyptians.

It's similar to how Sumerians are probably "extinct" as a people, and the modern Iraqi people are mostly unrelated to them.

File: BASED_FIDDY.png (323KB, 502x500px) Image search: [Google]

323KB, 502x500px

>>84628

>>84628
Ancient Egyptians weren't black, but portraying them as white men of Anglo-Celtic is absolutely fucking absurd.

They were a clearly a non-white Caucasoid featured people with brown skin phenotypically the most similar to Horn Africans and modern day North Africans.

>>85416
What do you mean by white then, anon?
If you mean caucasian then you're basically flat out wrong. "White," as in Caucasian, includes Europeans, Middle Easterners and South Asians.

>>85630
I love you fiddy

>>85097
No most of them don't have more than 50% white in them.
And not all Mexicans are descendants of Spaniards. My maternal grandfather was a German born in Mexico and my father's family are filthy Mayan Injun savages, their ancestors are not smiling on them, from Guatemala who left the country due to the bullshit, read genocide, in the 60's to 90's.

>>85685
No no, he refers to the magical 19th century English concept of White, that also excluded Swedes as being too tan (kek) and Irishmen because they were "Celto-Iberian," whatever the fuck that meant.

>>85642
ARE THE CRYSTAL GEMS!

>>85630
>kings and queens
she doesn't even know that Egyptians had Pharaohs, not kings and queens.

>>85201
>Somalis literally going this far to claim Ancient Egypt

Holy shit those mummies look typical Caucasian, could apply to any Caucasian-featured group.

>>85233
Nobody has ever claimed the Ancient Egyptians were "white" except extremely delusional Nordicists and Stormfaggots.

>>85734
He said phenotype, not that they're the modern day descendants of ancient egyptians. Learn to read.

>>85734

The mummies have the same features and skull shape as Northeast Africans, and their art depicts them as generally reddish-brown in color, darker than the Semites to the east but lighter than the Nubians to the south. What do you think they looked like?

>>85568
>Egyptians were Egyptian. I'm not sure what that means but I think there are still Egyptians around today, so they probably deserve credit for Egyptian culture

My dad has always said that anyone who has been to Egypt knows that aliens exist because there's no way that fucking Egyptians could have ever built the pyramids. I love my dad.

File: 1436126509782.png (3MB, 886x1389px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 886x1389px

>>85568
>What, the Goa'uld? Those were real!?
Jesus, living in Grorious Nippon right now and man do these kids not give a shit about history or politics.

>Todai students that didn't even know what Aum Shinrikyo was.
>Putin is a communist right?

>>85743
post immediately above yours

File: census_race.png (100KB, 600x302px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 600x302px

>>85743
Some people say otherwise.

>>85233

never seen a white person claim Ancient Egypt, every Negro thinks the AE's were "black", especially African Americans who think the AE's looked like West Africans.

LOLOL

>>85568
Modern day Egyptians are mostly Arabs...Ancient Egyptians no longer exist as a people, so basically all your choices are wrong.

>>85794
"White" was never mentioned in his post you illiterate fuck. He said...

>Holy shit those mummies look typical Caucasian, could apply to any Caucasian-featured group.

That is true.

>>85799
His post said "Ancient Egyptians." Fuck. Can't anybody read in this thread?

>>85685
If you want to call them caucasians then whatever but white is fucking disingenuous since many african americans have whiter skin than some of those egyptian depictions

>>85827
selective cognition

Ancient Egyptians were basically a clinal population whom varied a lot and had everything from Mediterranean to Ethiopian looking individuals.

>>85827
While people certainly invaded and migrated to Egypt, I thought most scholarly sources agreed that Egypt today is still very similar to ancient Egyptians.

>>85868
>While people certainly invaded and migrated to Egypt

Yes the Greeks and that's it. Other than that whites really had nothing to do with AE.

>>85818
Modern Egyptians ARE the descendants of Ancient Egyptians. The Arabs didn't demographically displace Ancient Egypt, just linguistically.

we can discuss anthropology here, so serious question--

why do white people actually believe they were romans and greeks? if anything, the people that live there today (mediterranean countries) are white from being raped by slavs and germanics

i'm convinced they originally looked like north africans . this is shown by their art.

also the whole "hurr romans r white" is just the european's version of "we wuz kingz""

>>85096
I would not say exactly as they look today as it is probably not the same ethnic group living in egypt today as in the old egypt.
The majority would not been what most would consider black, but as you say light tan to very dark reddish copper like several other ethnic groups in northern africa.
There would ofcourse be black people living in egypt as they did have lots of contact with the surrounding people, like the nubians.

Not to mention that there have been black pharaoes by conquest and such.
The people of egypt also changed a lot over the years thanks to all the migrations/invasions happening so it is not easy to know what the original egyptians had for skin tone.
This does not mean that the egyptians were black though.

>>85906
just...die...

File: Nikolaos_Karelis.jpg.jpg (132KB, 702x685px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 702x685px

>>85964
this is what ancient greeks looked like

>>85964
Whitness developed as a way to divide poor farmers of European descent from African slaves to maintain a slaveowning elite in the United States and has limited relevance when talking about ancient history.

>>85793
>Yeah, let's eliminate all the liberal arts faculties! They're useless anyway

nippon-san pls

>>85985
Why are you so butthurt?

>>85964
Greeks use to be whiter before becoming Turk rape babies actually and Romans were white.

>>85964
Does it really matter? "White" is an unscientific social constructed race. Ancient Greeks and Romans were purely Western in terms of genetic makeup, unlike Ancient Egyptians who were never purely Sub-Saharan African in terms of their DNA.

Besides, Germans, Brits, and French accomplished plenty and were territories of the Roman Empire.

Saying Greeks and Italians aren't "white" is ridiculous, they look like typical dark-featured Europeans.

Can you tell the difference between a dark-featured German and Italian? Dark-featured Brit and Greek? Romanian and Italian? Albanian and Greek? Croatian and Greek? Spaniard and Italian? French and Italian? Doubt it.

>>85998
Yeah, nah. "Whiteness" came about as the world shrank in the 18th and 19th centuries as a term encompassing yuros - particularly western and northern and even more so the English. Before yuro societies had any sort of racial pluralism, there wasn't really a need for such a term and everyone just defined themselves as their local stock. If literally everyone you've ever interacted with in your life is "white", then "whiteness" means nothing but being English or Welsh or Virginian might well be important info distinguishing yourself from the "other".

>>86096
>Implying you can't tell a person's race from their skeleton

>>86143
Caucasian, Negroid, Mongoloid, and Australoid are pretty outdated terms, m8. Only still used in Forensics but even then you can't always accurately ascertain one's race based off their morphology.

Kennewick man was first classified as "Caucasian" and then "Mongoloid" and so forth, plenty of mistakes with him.

Most people only still use those older physical anthropology terms when referring to certain genetic components, populations, and physical features due to really a lack of a more convenient term at this time.

I only use "Caucasian" still cause there's not a better term available that collectively refers to the genomic components of West Asia, North Africa, and Europe. Some use "West Eurasian" instead, but that doesn't encompass North Africa.

All the /pol/ bullshit aside, it does not seem unlikely that one or two of the pharaoes (female or male) were black.


Though obviously nearly everyone were middle-eastern.

I read somewhere that apparently people are fighting about wheter or not Hannibal was black too

>>86198
sure there might have been some black rulers but also consider the time of exodus, was it likely that the Pharaohs were black ?

File: egyptians-were-egyptian.jpg (95KB, 540x690px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 540x690px

>>84628
>are the ancient Egyptians this race or that race?

I think the ancient Egyptians were... brace for it, Egyptians. What is so hard about this?

>>85614
It's free college and tax breaks, man.
You only need to be 1/32nd Native (at least in my state) to qualify as Native in get that sweet government money

>>86218
Not very I think


Also heard somewhere that there is like very little evidence that the Egyptians actually had Hebrews as slaves, apart from the bible

>>86228
Where can I find more pictures like this one? I really want to read about the black people finding this controversial

>>86296
I heard that too, they were more likely paid workers

>>86296

Correct. Slavery actually wasn't a big thing in Egypt. There were slaves, but they were mostly just the personal slaves of the rich and powerful. No evidence of Hebrew slaves AFAIK, and anyone who thinks slaves (much less Biblical Hebrew slaves) built the pyramids is probably an idiot.

>>86296
Not a modicum of evidence has been produced to show Hebrew slaves in Egypt. It's a biblical fairy tale.

>>86247
Nah, I've come across this as well. I knew this guy that was 1/8th native and he wore some native american body ornaments in his hair, neck etc every day. I think it's more like Americans have no real culture so they latch on to whatever they can find that links them to their "past."

>>86218
>Time of exodus
>At all a historic event
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/the-jewish-thinker/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844

Even israel doesnt support that claim.

>>86247
>tfw I'm half native american but from mexico so i can't cash in on these moneys

>>86331
Yeah, the pyramids thing has been debunked a long time ago, not sure it was ever even the consensus among historians.

I just realized a few months ago that I didn't know whether or not it was actually true, did a tiny, tiny bit of research, turns out there is no evidence except for the bible. So it is entirely reasonable to discard it.

>>86298
I think I saw this particular one on imgur. I don't have more handy or a hashtag to search for more.

It's a little nuts how people get so bent out of shape over the most minor things. I'm sure there's plenty of examples on many sides on a whole host of issues floating around.

>>86339
Americans have no culture? I suppose fish have been known to doubt the existence of water.

>>86389
clapping at the stars and stripes isn't culture

>>86367
Conscripted labor is often times worse than slavery, because they don't care if you survive.

File: 1417874167905.png (288KB, 500x376px) Image search: [Google]

288KB, 500x376px

>>86339
I guess that's true. We do have a lot of culture, but it's normalized and exported to the entire world so it seems blank to us. Festivals/etc are also limited to specific variations of white when we're almost all mutts who don't really know what we are in the first place.
Then you add in the legacy of Calvinism and Puritanism and we've been reduced to efficient and soulless worker drones like god intended.

It's no wonder that people search for an identity when it was taken from them before they were born.

What's funny is that the slaves were from Western Africa and bore no relations to the first Egyptians dynasties (who were supposedly black) whatsoever.

Also people tend to think that African = Black.

>>86413
sure, that is true

I think most people were more upset about exodus because the actors weren't semetic/middle-eastern, not because they weren't black. All the important good guys were lily white when we know they would have looked much like modern egyptians.

>>85840
Many African Americans are 20-25% white genetically

>>86339
1/64 pure german

>>85278
I have greco-roman roots tho

>>86380
What you have to remember is that hollywood is massively racist and sexist, if you fit into one of their nice character categories you can get work reliably. To use the black example, if you're a cool black man, a street black youth, or charismatic black man you're fine you can play Samual Jackson, Will Smith or Morgan Freeman, outside of that, much harder. So any time big films like this come out, and they cast big name white actors for roles, or even just white actors, they're actively denying none stereotypical jobs to minority actors. Which is a big fucking problem because it makes it harder for them to get themselves out there, and that further reinforces the problem.

And it sucks for audiences to an extent to, because you never know if the next big household name is just waiting to get a role and is taking a back seat to i don't know Tom Cruise for the 100th time.

>>84628
The whole Exodus movie outrage wasn't necessarily about believing the Egyptians should be black, most SJW types seem to be pretty happy with Prince of Egypt, where look middle-eastern.
As for those vehemently claiming ancient Egyptians were black, I guess they're black supremacists or some of the more extreme SJWs? These people seem to have a penchant for all sorts of conspiracy theories.

>>87518
Its actually a lot harder for white people to make it as theres so much more competition. You can have a black role being read by maybe 10 people, while a white role gets hundreds.

And why is it up to white people anyway? I meanvif blacks are as smart then surely they can make their own movies about kings n shiet, why do they expect to litwrally be catered something. Movies are not a right

>>87571
That's literally a large part of the problem, the overwhelming majority of black roles are stereotypical roles which forces you into these niches. Which means the same guys will get them time and time again. And when you have ratios like 1-20, and 5 films, you have only a few chances and you have to compete with the established names a lot harder, because they also want jobs. If there's 20 roles and only 50 more established actors, that's still 50 where new faces have a much better shot to get a credit.

And labour is a right. Acting is labour ergo it is a right and it is the industries responsibility to solve this problem.

>>87623
>And labour is a right. Acting is labour ergo it is a right and it is the industries responsibility to solve this problem.

:^)

Labor is not a right in America, bud. You don't have a right to demand to be employed as an actor by movie studios any more than you have a right to demand a PhD from a major university and be employed there.

Pretty sure you just baited me, so well played.

File: Ancient Egyptian mummies.jpg (499KB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

499KB, 2400x2400px

>>85734
>Holy shit those mummies look typical Caucasian
I made that pic and I simply compiled the cherrypicked mummies which nordicists love to show.

The average mummy looks like pic related though.

File: Queen Tiye (Tut's grandmother) 1.jpg (23KB, 525x641px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 525x641px

>>85726
Pharaohs were literally kings and there were queens too. Tutankhamun's grandmother Tiye for example, pic related.

File: muh Cleopatra.png (72KB, 188x603px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 188x603px

>>85568
>Cleopatra
Are you aware that she is from the Ptolemaic dynasty? Which was established by one of Alexander's generals following his conquest of Egypt in 332 BC and his death? Are you aware that none of the Ptolemies prior to Cleopatra could speak the ancient egyptian language and made up greco-egyptian gods such as Serapis? Are you aware that Cleopatra was born closer to the invention of the smartphones than to the construction of the pyramids? She has nothing to do with Egypt, like the ptolemies, she was pretty much just playing dress up.

Using her in order to discredit claims of black egyptians is pathetic.

File: King Taharqa of Nubia and Egypt.jpg (56KB, 730x471px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 730x471px

>>84628
They weren't. But there was a Black Dynasty in Egypt. The 25th (a.k.a Nubian) Dynasty

Basically the states in Nubians have been egyptboos for so long with one difference: they were better warriors than Agrarian Egypt was. Their king, called "Kashta" in Egyptian Sources, united the Nubians a la Genghiz Khan style and invaded Egypt.

The dynasty reached its zenith under Pharaoh Taharqa.

File: info Black Moderns.jpg (198KB, 710x539px) Image search: [Google]

198KB, 710x539px

>>85860
Do you know that there are still ''niggers'' today in Egypt and that they're genetically more similar to the ancients?

Go in the countryside, go to Luxor, go in Upper Egypt, look at the Fellahin etc.

>Comprising 60% of the Egyptian population, the fellahin lead humble lives and continue to live in mud-brick houses like their ancient ancestors. Their percentage was much higher in the early 20th century, before the large influx of Egyptian fellahin into urban towns and cities. In 1927, anthropologist Winifred Blackman, author of The Fellahin of Upper Egypt, conducted ethnographic research on the life of Upper Egyptian farmers and concluded that there were observable continuities between the cultural and religious beliefs and practices of the fellahin and those of ancient Egyptians.

Who are the Fellahin? – Biot #312: December 24, 2005
Faraldi, Caryll (11–17 May 2000). "A genius for hobnobbing"

Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUBvVTNRp4Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk0UybQeHQ8

>>86331
this

There weren't any jews in Bronze Age Egypt.

>>84628

To black racialists, any tanned people are automatically black african people

>>87942

Even nubians were half semite people

File: Schermata 2015-10-28 alle 02.52.38.png (257KB, 705x609px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 705x609px

>>87942
>they were better warriors than Agrarian Egypt was
They are only known as being better bowmen.

Also, the distinction of the 25th dynasty as a clearly black empire should not create the illusion that this is the only black dynasty during which black men ruled egypt. The reunification of a splintered warring egypt came at the hands of the Middle kingdom who's rulers also came out of Nubia. Leading into the New Kingdom. Where Nubians and Egyptians were often so closely related that some scholars consider them virtually indistinguishable, as the two cultures melded and mixed together. Various pharoahs of Nubian origin are held by some Egyptologists to have played an important part towards the area in different eras of Egyptian history, particularly the 12th Dynasty.

pic related for example is Narmer aka Menes, literally the first pharaoh of Egypt's dynastic history. He unified Upper (South) and Lower (North) Egypt in 3150 BC.

If it isn't the face of a black man, I'm Peter Pan.

>>88043
They were still black.

And were from a primitive tribal society before Egyptian influence made them civilized. Only thing they had was being good in battle.

File: A. Nubians - A. Egyptians.jpg (2MB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2400x2400px

>>88043
No they weren't and their purest descendants are the Nilotic peoples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples

The Dinkas in particular, pic related.

>>84787
>>85103
see pic related

>>87873
....can you get a dna sample off that shit?

Doesn't it make little sense to discuss race in a context where race did not yet exist?

File: Nubian Archer.jpg (20KB, 195x240px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 195x240px

>>88071
>They are only known as being better bowmen.
Played too many vidya have you.

No, they're better warriors than Egyptians in general. Egyptians gave the honor of joining the army to the second son. Since he's inheriting jackshit. Literally nobody among them wanted the job. Also Pharaohs regularly had to make levies to fill up their armies, which had a small warrior class as professionals.

Meanwhile the tribal societies of Nubia have been fucking each other up in wars and martial prowess is seen highly in their cultures.

Egyptians may have chariots but the Nubian is a better infantryman than he is.

>/his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.

File: 1445853396340.jpg (60KB, 540x690px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 540x690px

>>85233
I've always seen people complain about white people saying that egyptians were white but I've never seen a white man say that egyptians were white.

>>88100
Something about that guy on the far right is giving me a laugh. As if kobe bryant got a bottle of soul glow.

File: info Tropical bodies 1.jpg (389KB, 900x660px) Image search: [Google]

389KB, 900x660px

>>88131
Autosomal STR results:
www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf
www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2013-02-01.pdf

X-Ray cranial analysis:
asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/data7_files/data7.htm

Contamination from handling and intrusion from microbes create obstacles to the recovery of ancient DNA. Consequently, most DNA studies have been carried out on modern Egyptian populations with the intent of learning about the influences of historical migrations on the population of Egypt. One successful study was performed on ancient mummies of the 12th Dynasty, by Paabo and Di Rienzo, which identified multiple lines of descent, some of which originated in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Paabo, S., and A. Di Rienzo, A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt. V. Davies and R. Walker, eds. pp. 86-90. London: British Museum Press. 1993

Also, modern anthropology shows that the ancient Egyptians are well within the range of tropical Africa, contradicting older research in the 1990s that sought to deny any relationship.

>"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas.”

(Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)

>>88178
There is nothing /pol/ about this thread. There is no blatant racism nor trolling and the expected ''high level of discourse'' is respected.

>>86404
vapid consumerism, despairing shallowness, grasping for anything resembling an identity and calling each other faggot since the first BBS board is our culture

>>84726
The Egyptians were not black as in West African negroid, but they were not Caucasoid either. They were a mix of both basically, and brown skinned, or Arabic looking. If you have to categorize them into either black or white they fit more as black.

File: *Tut and his family.jpg (505KB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

505KB, 2400x2400px

>>88131
oh and these results:
>>88190
>www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf
are not surprising considering the fact that pic related is Tutankhamun's family.

Pictured: his grandfather Amenhotep III, his grandmother Tiye, his father Akhenaten, one of his sisters Neferneferure and Tutankhamun himself.

>>88232
They were semitic you dumb faggot.

File: *descendants 5.jpg (633KB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

633KB, 2400x2400px

>>88232
Pretty much this but it really all depends on which period you're talking about considering the fact that its dynastic history lasted for about 3120 years.

pic related

In Lower Egypt (North) many arabic looking faces could've probably been seen but besides simply looking at their ancient art, to get an idea of the physical appearance of the average ancient egyptian, one can simply take a look at the phenotypes of the Fellahin people of modern day Egypt, the Beja people of northern Sudan, the people of Luxor, the Manasir people along with some modern Nubians, the Afar people of Ethiopia, the Beni-Amer people of Eritrea/Sudan, Somalis, Eritreans and other people of the African Great Lakes region are most probably their purest (not in the ‘’racially pure’’ sense) descendants as plenty of evidence shows. They certainly display today the same phenotypical appearance of the average Ancient Egyptian prior to the numerous foreign conquests and presence of assyrians, circassians, canaanites, hyksos, libyans, persians, greeks, romans, arab muslims, ottoman turks, albanians etc. They also have the same hair textures, noses and skulls as the mummies.

Many people spanning across Africa (aside from the listed) today still practice variations of the ancient Egyptian culture. Hairstyles, religious symbols, traditions and many other cultural aspects are a strong indicator of this reality. It could be said that the Ancient Egyptians did not in fact disappear, they instead simply moved like many other peoples.

File: info Modern Egyptians.jpg (384KB, 923x700px) Image search: [Google]

384KB, 923x700px

>>88253
You're talking about modern egyptians but we all know in terms of ethnic composition, modern Egypt, is much different from Ancient Egypt.

>Contemporary Egypt, is mostly an ethnic admixture between foreign invaders and conquerors and indigenous African people. Autosomally, as a whole, they tend to cluster more with Eurasian especially the Middle East. In the south, populations like Nubians probably cluster more with Africans (and thus Ancient Egyptians). All this is because of massive immigration from Europe and western Asian which started already in dynastic time, culminating in the Hyksos (Aamu) foreign rule during the second intermediate period, as well as during the late periods up to now (Assyrians, Arab conquest, British colonization, etc).

>‘'As a consequence the many invasions of ancient Egypt, the population has changed over the years. There were Hyksos (Heka Khasut) from Asia, who melted into the Delta Region around 1500 B.C.E., and then a series of invasions by the Assyrians, Persians and Greeks. With the arrival of large groups of Arabians in the seventh century C.E., the racial character of Egypt began to change''

>''The resultant mixtures of Africans, Arabs, Greeks and Persians were to be jointed with Turks, Russians, Albanians, British, and French to create a different population that there had been during the ancient times.''

>''One cannot say that today's Egypt is the same as the Egypt of antiquity anymore than one can say that today's North America is the same as it was 5000 years ago.''

- From The Oxford Encyclopedia of African Thought, Volume 1 (2010)

File: Schermata 2015-11-03 alle 06.22.00.png (90KB, 245x566px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 245x566px

>>88232
>>88296
>pic related
*

>>88320
>modern Egypt, is much different from Ancient Egypt.

What are copts?

File: *descendants 12.jpg (507KB, 2400x1843px) Image search: [Google]

507KB, 2400x1843px

>>88361
Yes what are they? Well, many of today’s Egyptians are not necessarily representative of Ancients due to outside migration and admixture from European/Arab sources, particularly in Lower Egypt (North). Some Coptic claims to be pharanoic descendants not supported by DNA studies or cultural history showing heavy Arabization since 900 AD.

The modern Copt genetic profile shows substantial Middle Eastern and European elements:

>"Haplogroups A, B, and E occur mainly in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups including Nilotics, Fur, Borgu, and Masalit; whereas haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group.. The bulk of genetic diversity appears to be a consequence of recent migrations and demographic events mainly from Asia and Europe, evident in a higher migration rate for speakers of Afro-Asiatic as compared with the Nilo-Saharan family of languages, and a generally higher effective population size for the former...

>The relatively high-effective population size of the Copts is unlikely to have been influenced by their recent history in the Sudan. The current communities are known to be largely the product of recent migrations from Egypt over the past two centuries..“

Hassan et al. 2008. Y-chromosome variation.." Am J. Phy An. v137,3. 316-323

Also, the Sub-Saharan DNA B-M60 in Sudan may indicate a link with ancient Egypt:

>"The Copt samples displayed a most interesting Y-profile, enough (as much as that of Gaalien in Sudan) to suggest that they actually represent a living record of the peopling of Egypt. The significant frequency of B-M60 in this group might be a relic of a history of colonization of southern Egypt probably by Nilotics in the early state formation,..

Hassan 2008

pic related, some modern fellahin egyptians from Luxor and the countryside.

Ok so hold on, what happened between the Ancient Egyptian ages and now, to cause Egyptians to go from this supposed tan/brown colour to pretty much white (went Cairo this year, everyone is pretty much a straight up white colour)? French and Arab colonisation or what?

File: *descendants 2.jpg (356KB, 2400x1951px) Image search: [Google]

356KB, 2400x1951px

>>88390
Immigrations during the late periods:

>In the Late Period , internationalism, migration, and trade are especially well documented, and immigration from Thrace and the Greek cities of Anatolia was facilitated by the establishment of Naukratis (attributed to the reign of Psammetichus I) and the use of Greek mercenaries, first against Nubia (Psammetichus II) and later against Persian rule.

>The descendants of Greek immigrants took Egyptian names and operated within Egyptian cultural practices[…]

Period of mass immigration:

>Alexander the Great’s conquest of Egypt, in 332 BCE, precipitated a period of mass immigration .

>Peaking in the third century BCE, immigration from the Mediterranean, the Black Sea coast, Asia Minor, and the Near East may have numbered into the hundreds of thousands and included foreign slaves and prisoners of war as well as economic migrants and military veterans.

>In Greek and Demotic sources, almost 150 different ethnic labels attest to the scale and geographic range of immigration and ethnic-group settlement (La’da 2003: 158 - 159)

>Greek was “the language of upward social mobility” (p. 105); the Egyptian language, as well as other cultural forms, changed both in relation to it and depending on the circumstances and interests of individuals and of social groups.

from Ethnicity (Riggs, 2012)

and

''The Muslim conquerors did not attempt a mass conversion of Christianity to Islam, if only because that would have reduced the taxes non-Muslims were compelled to pay, but a number of other factors were at work. Arab men could marry Christian women and their children would become Muslim. Large-scale Arab immigration into Egypt began during the eighth century.''

from A History of Egypt: From Earliest Times to the Present by Jason Thompson (2009)

see >>88344

File: *descendants 9.jpg (490KB, 2400x1915px) Image search: [Google]

490KB, 2400x1915px

>>88390
The answer lies in the many successive invasions and occupations that began taking place during the latter half of the 1st millennium B.C. Prior to about 1700 B.C., there were virtually no white people anywhere in Kemet aside from maybe a few Asiatic servants who trickled into the Delta. The first foreigners to appear on record came in very small numbers at first and were a group of Semitic people known simply as the Hyksos, which translates to ‘rulers of foreign lands’. (It was long believed that hyksos meant ‘shepherd kings’, but this has proved inaccurate.) At first their presence was welcomed in the kingdom, but as chaos and unrest spread throughout Kemet at the close of the 14th dynasty, the Hyksos were able to take advantage of the situation by usurping the throne of Lower Kemet and establishing themselves as rulers of an area which extended from the Mediterranean in the north to just below the city of Memphis in the south. Depending on which historian one relies on, the Hyksos rule in Lower Kemet lasted either 200 or 500 years in what’s been designated the Second Intermediate Period in Egyptian history.

>>88411
Woah thanks lad

Also why do we not have flags here, we should imo

File: *descendants 3.jpg (554KB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

554KB, 2400x2400px

>>88390
Whatever the case, the majority of Egypt was still governed by the native Egyptian population. By the time the Hyksos were driven out entirely by the last rulers of the 17th dynasty circa 1500 B.C., all of the greatest monuments for which Egypt is best-known for – the largest of the pyramids and Heremakhet (best known as the ‘Sphinx of Giza’) were at least as old as 1,000 years already. Ancient Egypt really began its decline, at least as far as its native history is concerned, with a wave of successive invasions and conquests that would eventually change the racial makeup of the people of the land and even the culture. The Assyrians conquered for seven years beginning in 656 B.C. Then came the first of what would amount to three different conquests by the Persians in 525 B.C. (the final was in 629 A.D.), followed by the conquest of Alexander the Great of Macedonia in 334 B.C. and the beginning of the 300-year rule of the Ptolemaic Dynasty.

The sad thing is, that afrocentrist Raziocinante will never get banned, but anyone who will call him out will get banned.

File: *Ancients & Descendants.jpg (2MB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2400x2400px

>>88390
Greek occupation was brought to an end by the all-powerful Roman Empire in 30 B.C. Egypt was essentially reduced to a vassal of the vast Roman empire during its 700-year occupation, but with the rise of Islam as a serious competitor to Christianity as a world religion, a small army of Arabs was able to conquer Egypt in 639 A.D. A major influx of Arabs into Egypt occurred in the next four years and by 643 A.D. Egypt was a largely Arab country. Aside from a later influx of Turks during the medieval rule of the Mameluks, the population has since remained majority Arab. But, as Professor Molefi Kete Asante points out, “The presence of Arabs today in Egypt should not be read as an ancient presence just as White presence in Australia should not be read as an ancient presence. The same for America.''

File: Schermata 2015-11-03 alle 06.36.23.png (183KB, 297x483px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 297x483px

>>88390
Also, consider the fact that Anwar Sadat (half black 3rd president of Egypt) married a half-english half egyptian woman (looked fully white) with whom he had children (look fully arab), his killer was half turkish (admixture present in many modern Egyptians’ DNA due to the Ottoman Empire), these are just random examples by the way, look up the ancestry of any modern egyptian, particularly those shown in Wikipedia, pic related.

Consider the fact that during Napoleon’s conquest the Egyptian population was 3 million, it is 90 million today, consider the fact that the bubonic plague killed 40% of the population, consider the migrations and presence of the Libyans, Hyksos, Canaanites, Assyrians, Circassians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, muslim Arab invaders, Ottoman turks and albanians, the constant influx of Middle Eastern arabs etc. Also consider the fact that most of these conquering peoples mostly settled in the big cities…It is clear that the phenotypical appearance of the modern population of big cities such as Alexandria and Cairo looks nothing like that of the average ancient egyptian population from the pre-dynastic times (pre-3150BC) to the New Kingdom era (1500BC) and late Third Intermediate Period prior to all the continuous foreign conquests and migrations.

Fun fact: When the arabs conquered Egypt in 642 AD and arrived at the Giza pyramids, they searched for explanations as to who could have built these monuments. At these early arabian times, no inhabitant of Egypt was able to tell and no one could translate the Egyptian hieroglyphs anymore. Egypt was pretty much not egyptian anymore and its arabization hadn’t even started yet.

>>88451
Because I am neither an afrocentrist nor a spammer. I literally simply reply to claims that are untrue in order to refute them. I strongly dislike lies and clueless people being fed nonsense. I've never started any thread about Ancient Egypt and most of my posts are in response to nordicists claiming that all Africans are supposed to look like Dinkas and that some of the mummies' oxidized, dyed and decayed hair which looks kind of blond or red was their natural hair and that Ancient Egypt was a ''nordic civilization''.

I'm not shitposting, I'm literally factposting.

>>88467
>>88447
>>88430
>>88411
>>88380
>>88320
>>88344
>>88296
>>88240
>>88206
>>88190

Fuck off back to /pol/ namefag, we all know that you're from there. You got yesterday's thread deleted with your bullshit while blatantly ignoring any counterargument, your maps from yesterday showed that you appeared to be of the belief that semitic people were also sub saharan, and you failed to refute the image kindly provided by the earlier anon: >>85201

Seriously, stop copy pasting your garbage and engage in the fucking thread, else you might as well rock up and post "DESU DESU DESU" spam.

Engage or fuck off, your so called "nordicist enemies" are a meme and arent in this thread for you to claim to be fighting.

>>88512
Fun fact: When anyone bothered to look at scotland in 800 AD and saw the type 1 stones that had been left behind nobody could translate them. No requirement for anyone to have come through and wiped them out or ethnically replaced them, people forget shit given a couple of generations.

>>85964
>i'm convinced they originally looked like north africans
t. Black Hebrew Israelite

>>88609
>you're from there
I've posted on /pol/ to refute nordicist lies but I'm not from there.

>You got yesterday's thread deleted
That's because the OP's picture was ''we wuz kingz'', another thread about Egypt popped up right after with a normal OP and it stayed on.

>your bullshit
Academic research is bullshit?

>ignoring any counterargument
I don't ignore anything.

>you appeared to be of the belief that semitic people were also sub saharan
Absolutely not.

>>88609
>You got yesterday's thread deleted
>>88644
and I reported that thread too.

>>88644
Post your wonderful picture showing the emigration from subsaharan africa into egypt then, I know you keep a folder of this along with your copypasta document.

Congrats on yet again ignoring most of my post.

File: Expansion of AfroAsiatic Languages.png (236KB, 793x802px) Image search: [Google]

236KB, 793x802px

>>88669
>the emigration from subsaharan africa into egypt
That's a linguistic map and there's a nice wiki article that you should read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbers#Diaspora

Guys its not that hard to figure out, just look at a guy from Cario and that is likely the skin color of ancient egyptians. All the invasions of Egypt by outside groups couldn't have made the Egyptians more or less what they are now simply because the invaders didn't genocide the previous inhabitants so the inhabitants original genepool is still the majority of most egyptians. a good comparison is England, where despite the fuckton of invaders almost all of them (people in East Anglia are an exception because most of the original inhabitants got expelled when the Anglo Saxons came) are ~60% of the original inhabitants of England.

File: *Wall art collage (9).jpg (592KB, 2400x1879px) Image search: [Google]

592KB, 2400x1879px

>>88669
>Congrats on yet again ignoring most of my post.
Scotland has nothing to do with Egypt and my ''fun fact'' wasn't focused on the ancient egyptian language.

>>88750
>look at a guy from Cario and that is likely the skin color of ancient egyptians
But that's wrong.

>>88253
No, those were Ethiopians

Egyption was a related but seperate language group

File: Egypt_2010_population_density1.png (75KB, 654x600px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 654x600px

>>88750
>All the invasions of Egypt by outside groups couldn't have made the Egyptians more or less what they are now
Yes, the hyksos, libyans, canaanites, assyrians, persians, greeks, romans, albanians, turks and arabs totally didn't change the country's genepool. Same for Northern America with its italian, french, german, english, dutch etc. migrations. Come on, you're not being logical now.

>simply because the invaders didn't genocide the previous inhabitants
Are you forgetting that the bubonic plague killed 40% of Egypt's population? Are you forgetting that fellahin's used to make up 60% of the population back in the early 20th century?

pic very related

everione knows acient egiptians werent white, this obviously does not mean they looked like central africans, they didnt, neither did they look like greeks or mongols, just like ethiopians dont look like nigerians, and zambians dont look anithing like morrocans, and putting any or all of them under the designation ''black'' is retarded
different human phenotypes will have different melanin levels, you cant shoehorn people simply based on the fact melanin exists


why do these threads exist? why are they not 404ed automaticaly... why? im seriously asking

>>88750
Eh, some regions were Arabized quite a bit and it's most noticeable when you can find isolated groups in the deep South of Europe with colored eyes and hair, or like the divide in Iran today.
I can't say I know much on this, though.

>>88687
Ah, there we go, the same image you were using yesterday in support of the egyptians being sub saharan african, now you clarify it as a linguistic map. Yesterday you dodged that one.

Next fun question; either this map demonstrates that you have emigration from subsaharan africa into egypt as the basis for the conveyance of language, in which case you're also claiming that proto-semitic required ancient egyptian immigration, or you're stating that it's not an intrinsic aspect and language may be acquired without a significant ethnic investiture. (Hint, language, while correlated with some degree of ethnic exchange, doesnt require an ethnic basis)

So if you claim to not be an afrocenterist, why not join the moderates in the statement that "we know that the ancient egyptians were not from europe (barring whenever the african R1a migration occured, but that was probably much later given its association with the proto-indo europeans and the kurds), but simultaneously "It is probable that they are not directly related to modern sub saharan africans, or to modern semitic groups".

>>88767
Wrong part of my post you ignored, but sure let's go with that. Your original post had a wonderful story about how when the arabs arrived nobody knew about the ancient egyptians. My counterargument is that people lose information and that "egypt not being able to translate heiroglyphs" is no different to the late age picts not being able to translate their own earlier language. While the egyptians certainly had been changed quite a lot by this point, you cant make the claim that your "fun fact" in any way supports the hypothesis that this indicates a change in ethnic background over information loss.

File: 1940s Lunacy vs 1350 BC Reality (5).jpg (624KB, 2400x1610px) Image search: [Google]

624KB, 2400x1610px

>>88806
Yes but there is still strong denial. Many of the ancients would be called black today. Not even because of some sort of ''racial classification'' but simply by looking at them. It's funny, it used to go like this:

''the ancient egyptians were a nordic people who go diluted over the centuries by negros and arabs!''

and today:

''well it doesn't matter, they were just egyptians, let's ignore their origins!''

The nubians of the 25th dynasty were literally claimed to be aryan during the 19th and early 20th century.

File: Climate-controlledoccupationintheEasternSaharaduringthemain.jpg (185KB, 935x579px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 935x579px

>>88834
>you were using yesterday in support of the egyptians being sub saharan african
?

>Yesterday you dodged that one.
No, yesterday I was typing my reply but the thread 404'd less than 5mins after your post. I literally raged.

The rest of your babbling is meaningless and stems from your ignorance to be honest. Just read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroasiatic_Urheimat

>subsaharan
You keep using that word but you seem unaware that it really doesn't mean much.

pic related

>>88834
My point was about the arabization process which was about to start. Stop playing dumb.

>>88834
>So if you claim to not be an afrocenterist, why not join the moderates in the statement that "we know that the ancient egyptians were not from europe (barring whenever the african R1a migration occured, but that was probably much later given its association with the proto-indo europeans and the kurds), but simultaneously "It is probable that they are not directly related to modern sub saharan africans, or to modern semitic groups".

If you saw that phenotype on the streets of america would you cross the street?

>>88876
>Everything else is babble
Excellent, more language evolution, once again I raise the notion that while you do have population spread that is associated with language spread, you're happily ignoring all the neolithic humans who were already in the area. Do you think these might have had some influence?

>>88901
No, but I also havent been to america and dont plan on it. (Also for reference I find the notions of "black and white" to be incredibly american and when discussing the notion with them find that I have to try and resort to whatever means required to get them to understand the notion that "black is a generalisation of a large number of subgroups that lived across a large region and is really not the best term to be using" (hence sub saharan) Given that they happily classify the bushman tribe and the various south african ethnogroups in the same basket. My apologies for having to use this terminology if you have the fortune of not being a burgerlander)

>>88845

>origins

and thats how the shit hits the fan, every fucking time

you know what youre doing, youre doing something much much fun called -brojanje krvnih zrnaca- or counting blood cells as it were

after that comes counting bones, and after enough of that comes counting corpses

ja ti velim pa ti kak češ

File: info Nile Valley.jpg (267KB, 800x604px) Image search: [Google]

267KB, 800x604px

>>88982
>you're happily ignoring all the neolithic humans who were already in the area
and you're ignoring the fact that the Egyptian dynastic civilization is based from the 'darker' south (Upper Egypt) not the north (Lower Egypt) because of your ignorance on the subject.

Quotes:
>"While not attempting to underestimate the contribution that Deltaic political and religious institutions made to those of a united Egypt, many Egyptologists now discount the idea that a united prehistoric kingdom of Lower Egypt ever existed."

>"While communities such as Ma'adi appear to have played an important role in entrepots through which goods and ideas form south-west Asia filtered into the Nile Valley in later prehistoric times, the main cultural and political tradition that gave rise to the cultural pattern of Early Dynastic Egypt is to be found not in the north but in the south.":

The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 1, From the Earliest Times to c. 500 BC, (Cambridge University Press: 1982), Edited by J. Desmond Clark pp. 500-509

>"..the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life."

(Shaw, Thurston (1976) Changes in African Archaeology in the Last Forty Years in African Studies since 1945. p. 156-68. London.)

>>88802
>You're not being logical now
Did any of these invasions have the invaders contain more people than the egyptians or within the context of this thread to make them black? Also North America is white because the white settlers displaced/killed the natives en masse
>The bubonic plauge killed 40% of Egypts population
How does this change anything it killed 40% of everyone, it didn't target any one ethnicity and to my knowledge there was no mass migrations to Egypt during the Bubonic Plauge.
>Albanians
Im curious when did Albanians get to Egypt or are you referring to the Mamluks

File: info ''Sub-Sahara'' 1.jpg (331KB, 900x678px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 900x678px

>>89010
>and thats how the shit hits the fan, every fucking time
But there's plenty of evidence pal, I've got a mountain of facts coming from academic research if you're interested.

Conservative mainstream Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt shows ancient Egypt derived from an African cultural sub-stratum:

>"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeast African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egyptian in a close relationship with languages spoken today as far west as Chad, and as far south as Somalia. Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time).

>Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons...

>Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization.."

The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, 2001. Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p.28

Let me know if you want more info on the ''Africanicity'' of Egypt. I don't want to give the impression that I'm spamming.

>>89045
Ah, here we go;
>"While not attempting to underestimate the contribution that Deltaic political and religious institutions made to those of a united Egypt, many Egyptologists now discount the idea that a united prehistoric kingdom of Lower Egypt ever existed."

So what happened to those prehistoric people when the (more modern) egyptians rolled in? I dont require a prehistoric kingdom, just a different basis to other groups in the area at the time.

>>89069
>to make them black
What? I never claimed that Egypt has been BLACKED, I clearly implied that it's been ARABED.

>How does this change anything it killed 40% of everyone
Bait?

>there was no mass migrations to Egypt during the Bubonic Plauge.
But there were before and after, see >>88320 >>88411

How do you think the population went from 3 million to 90 million? Between Napoleon and Morsi? and Egypt and its history like neither like India's or China's.

>when did Albanians get to Egypt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanians_in_Egypt

>>89069
>>89123
also related:

>"Outside influence and admixture with extraregional groups primarily occurred in Lower Egypt—perhaps during the later dynastic, but especially in Ptolemaic and Roman times (also Irish, 2006).”

-Irish 2009. Dental_affinities_of_the_C-group_inhabitants.. Ec Hi Rev

>"Cosmopolitan northern Egypt is less likely to have a population representative of the core indigenous population of the most ancient times“
– Keita 2005. History in Africa, 2005, 32(1).221-246

>''With the passage of time, each wave of new immigrants has assimilated into the local mix of peoples , making modern Egypt a combination of Libyans, Nubians, Syrians, Persians, Macedonians, Romans, Arabs, Turks, Circassians, Greeks, Italians, and Armenians, along with the descendants of the people of ancient Egypt.''

- From A Brief History of Egypt by Jr. Goldschmidt Arthur (2007)

>The Late Period is often singled out as the time when mass immigration into Egypt altered the character of the country''

from A Companion to Ancient History Edited by Andrew Erskine (2009)

File: dsc_0217[1].jpg (780KB, 2256x1496px) Image search: [Google]

780KB, 2256x1496px

>>88687
This map looks weird. Why would you place the afroasiatic homeland there? Thats a terrible place.
The other big "homelands" of civilizations - Ukraine, Mesopotamia, Egypt, are all fertile valleys. This place is a fucking mountain.
Pic related is the closest thing that even remotely resembles a birth-of-civilization location, and its a very narrow valley, small and not fertile, without any grains growing natively, and without long history of inhabitance and early urbanization.

Wouldnt you rather place this center further south, near Lake Victoria or something?

>>89130
>Goldschmidt
Disregarded

>>89154
Why, because you personally dislike his name?
Argue the point, not the man.

File: Egyptian-Igbo 1.png (145KB, 880x513px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 880x513px

>>89135
>Ukraine
?

You should read this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroasiatic_Urheimat

>>89045
>When the unlikely relationships [Indian matches] are eliminated

Is it that unlikely?

The first push of modern humans out of africa would have come out of here, and traveled straight along the coastline to india

>>85103
>Mercenaries never existed
Go be retarded somewhere else.

>>89123
Arabed from what? Do you think that Egyptians were originally some copper tan shit or black.
Also you said that the plauge killed 40% of the population, that means 40% of everyone I don't see how a bunch of sandmen dying changes the ethnic makeup of a place.

That Albanian shit is pretty interesting I did not know Ali was an Albanian.

>>89174
No, the explanation is that phenotypical differences exist. East Africans are not prognathous or wide nosed but they often share the same skin color and hair texture as their western cousins.

Ramses II is always a bad example though.

>>89168
>Ukraine?

The indo-europeans are traced so somewhere there, Ukraine and Russia. Regardless, its the valley of a great river, a fertile valley with grains and game.
The place on your map is just rocks and trees, there is nothing there that would allow human civilization.
There is no reason whatsoever for a city to be built there instead of practically anywhere else. The geography doesnt allow for that place to be any early civilization's homeland.

The Egyptians had close affinities to neolithic farmers, not sub saharan africans.

Not to mention them having fuck all to do with west Africa

>>84628
>>>/pol/

File: *Wall art collage (10).jpg (751KB, 2400x1808px) Image search: [Google]

751KB, 2400x1808px

>>89199
>Arabed from what?
An arab religion called Islam, arab culture and arab mass migrations.

>Do you think that Egyptians were originally some copper tan shit or black
It's not what I think, it's what their tomb paintings show.

>I don't see how a bunch of sandmen dying changes the ethnic makeup of a place
Couple that with the fact that the fellahin used to make up 60% of the population and add the mass migrations...yeah it's a big change.

>>89212
The map is linguistic. It has no correlation with the development of Egypt's civilization whose origin is from the Southern Nile Valley.

>>85792
your dad is seventeen different kinds of idiotic, there's several equally plausible hypothesis on how they were built, all using only manual labor, stone and copper tools, sand, ropes and counterweigts, and the only reason none of them has been proven 100% is because no one will ever dare pull the entire pyramid apart to inspect the internal masonry.

sayng "I personally don't know ancient stonemasons built this specific builing, therefore aliens must be real lol" is no different than saying "I personally don't know why milk spoils some times but other times becomes cheese, therefore cheese fairies and spoiled milk gremlins must be real lol"

WE

>>89207
I wasn't throwing my bet that Egyptians were white or black, I was just calling him retarded using a picture of a war, during a time from mercenaries/turncoats were common in armies on both sides.

File: map.jpg (228KB, 933x935px) Image search: [Google]

228KB, 933x935px

>>89251
But the map implies there was a centralized civilization there 10k bp, which aws advanced enough to spread its language and culture.

Why would any sane group of people 10000 years ago want to live on a fucking mountain, where no goats, nor pigs, no cows, nor sheep, nor grass, nor grains, nor rice, nor anything exists, other than rock and trees?

There is no purpose for any human to be there, let alone build a settlement, let alone have it grow into an urbanized city, let alone spread culture and civilization from there.
The place is just unsuitable for any sort of early human inhabitace.

>>89262
>>>/pol/

Am I the only who can't report posts anymore? I keep getting the captcha right but it keeps saying eror.

>>89242
>Islam
I meant Arabed from what not by what
>tomb paintings
Yes they show they aren't black, if a modern egyptian held his arm up to one of those paintings it would be a similar color.

>>89242
>Couple that with the fact that the fellahin used to make up 60% of the population

That's within 100 or 200 years ago right?

I'm pretty sure you kinda answered this earlier, but what caused the recent massive change?

File: Egyptian-Yoruba 1.png (120KB, 321x670px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 321x670px

>>89271
>the map implies there was a centralized civilization there
No it doesn't.

>advanced enough to spread its language and culture
>culture
None of that is implied.

>>85097
You are actually fucking retarded, my friend. There was never mass immigration of white Spaniards to Mexico. It was mostly soldier populations that mixed into the Indian population. The whole point of Spanish conquest in central and south America was to build empires, and they needed people in those empires, so they left the native populations alive and what limited settlers they did have mixed very heavily with the native populations.

There is a huge amount of full blooded Indians in Mexico and Latin America in general, same goes for native languages. And mestizo, a primarily native mix of natives and Spanish, is the majority on basically every country north of Uruguay besides Cuba.

You would have to know literally nothing about Mexico to think otherwise

>>89224
>>89277
Stop doing this, all you are doing is just being a shitposter
Also
>telling someone you reported their post

>>89294
Language is the highest form of ancient culture. Its a linguistic map. It calls a mountain homeland and has the year 8000 BC written next to it. It has arrows pointing in all directions from it.

This is exactly what is implied, and its stupid. Living in that geographical region 8000 BC was stupid. The place is barren rock.

>>89262
ARE

File: ALBY_MIDEAST_EGYPT__373882f.jpg (44KB, 636x424px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 636x424px

>>89278
>I meant Arabed from what not by what
Are you baiting me? I also said:
>>89242
>arab culture and arab mass migrations.

>>89278
>Yes they show they aren't black,
Black as in the color or people?

>if a modern egyptian held his arm up to one of those paintings it would be a similar color
Yes if these did so
>>88380
>>88411
>>88430
not pic related which is what the average arab living in the modern Arab Republic of Egypt looks like. I myself have been asked by arabs before they heard me speak or knew my name if I am Egyptian.

I'm very aware that I look nothing like the ancients:
>>87873
>>88767
>>89242
both phenotypically and color wise.

>>89212

also panonia (vučedol culture for example)

''cradle of civilization'' means pretty much any place in the world where human beings find conditions to live and breed in larger numbers and so inevitably develop a increasingly complex society the biproducts of which are sophisticated culture systems of recording and transfering relevant information and the necesary development of technology

either that or they go extinct due to starvation disease and armed conflict, and then it starts again after xy generations

what people dont understand about ''civilisations'' is that they tend to start up and go out like wildfire, if it werent for archeology most of them would be just like trees falling in a forest

im aware i cant source this claim, but im certain we dont know about even 20% of the human cultures that existed on the planet, only the few that survived long enough as a homogenous system to leave some mark, like a layer of tools and trash, or pottery among some stones on stones, or a organised graveyard

thats it

it could be thats just what humans do, the same way termites do their thing

we are more conditioned and contingent as organic systems, individualy and colectively, than we usualy assume

File: *Wall art collage (12).jpg (641KB, 2400x1879px) Image search: [Google]

641KB, 2400x1879px

>>89278
>>89352
This is a bronze skin tone:
>>89352
which can also sometimes appear yellow.

pic related is very different

>>89317
>Language is the highest form of ancient culture
WRITTEN* language is.

We humans have been speaking languages for millenniums.

>>89352
>bait1!!1!1!1!!!
Do you have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader, I'm talking about skin color as what the thread was intended
>Black as in the color of the people
Most people painted black people jet black, the egyptians aren't jet black so logically they aren't black

>>89377
Thats fine theory crafting and top drawer speculation, but my point is that the afro-asian center of civilization that is being advertised here is ON A FUCKING MOUNTAIN. There is nothing there. The valley is just rocks. No grass, bushes, berries, no nothing. Not even animals worth chasing. The place is terrible to live in. I'd rather live in a desert than there. Why would it even be suggested as a center of civilization?

All I am saying is that if, for some reason, whatever reason, a civilization did start there, those would be the dumbest niggers to ever roam the Earth. There are better places in all directions from this place. It is in fact the least suitable place int he region.

>>85568
>>White Nationalists
>Everyone important was White, including Egyptians. But Modern Egyptians aren't white, there's no relationship between them and the ancient Egyptians. [Provably False]

This is a strawman.

Source: I'm a white nationalist.

File: Schermata 2015-10-28 alle 22.40.07.png (894KB, 674x674px) Image search: [Google]

894KB, 674x674px

>>89422
>Do you have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader
Do you? I'll link you again to my post which seems impossible for you to understand:
>>89242
>>Arabed from what?
>An arab religion called Islam, arab culture and arab mass migrations.

>Most people painted black people jet black, the egyptians aren't jet black so logically they aren't black
Pic related.

Black African =/= Charcoal dark, shockingly prognathous, big lipped, flat nosed with enormous nostrils and nappy haired.

>>88253
>semitic
Not even close.

>>89415
The grunts and noises that we later refined into language dont really count.
Language was developed to be a complex way of expressing yourself when you were forced into living, cooperating and trading with other people, in a big farm with multiple families.
Grains build language. Farming did. Having to all work, so you can pool your harvest, and ration it away later, is what built language as something more than UUUH while pointing with your finger.

Up that mountain there is no reason for complex language. No reason to have words for colors when you dont have any edible plants, no reason to have words for animals when nothing bigger than a fist lives there, no reason to name plants when all of them are just trees, no reason to have 99% of words really.
No reason for anybody to live there. Its a shitty place. I still want the source for this map, and the name of the person who drew that circle there, and wrote "afroasiatic homeland 10000 BP" in it.

File: Egyptian_races.jpg (81KB, 435x331px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 435x331px

>>84628
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_history_of_Egypt

>The genetic history of the demographics of Egypt reflects Egypt's geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas: Northeast Africa, Northwest Africa, the Sahara, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, and the Mediterranean.

In general, various DNA studies have found that the gene frequencies of modern Egyptian populations are intermediate between those of the Middle East, the Horn of Africa, southern Europe and Sub-Saharan Africa,[1] though NRY frequency distributions of the modern Egyptian population appear to be much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any Sub-Saharan African or European population, suggesting a much larger Middle Eastern genetic component

Everyone can shut the fuck up now, I've solved your problem. The best thing is, you can't prove me wrong.

File: Egyptian-Yoruba 2.png (130KB, 568x669px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 568x669px

>>89473
You seem unaware of the fact that we didn't go directly from ''grunts and noises'' to written complex languages. Once again, it is merely a linguistic map and implies zero correlation with the development of civilization because there is none.

File: 1414636805238.png (42KB, 147x154px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 147x154px

>>85233
What if Egyptians are an extinct race ?

@89455
White nationalists go back to pol :-DDDD
<<\pol\ ;-DD

File: Table of Nations.jpg (2MB, 1252x2400px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1252x2400px

>>89497
Not so fast.

>>89497
Also:
The DNA of some modern Egyptians found a genetic ancestral heritage to East Africa:

"The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population.”

(Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt.Ann Hum Genet. 68(Pt 1):23-39.)

>>84628
It doesn't even matter in the case of Exodus. These are Bible tales by Christians for Christians. Christ wasn't a blue eyed white man either, but this is how the old Europeans imagined him. You can view Exodus in the same light. A bible story in the imagination of European Christians.

>>85434
lol you must not live in america were for some reason everything thinks they are white or were white before big bad arabs came along

>>85097
White and Black Americans do that shit.

Funny thing is, if either race says "I got Cherokee in me", in reality it's "I got black or white in me, but my family is too ashamed".

File: Libyan_3.jpg (142KB, 768x499px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 768x499px

>>89497
pic related is how the Libyans (3rd) were actually painted by the ancient egyptians.

>>89430

i know but, this whole thread is utter crap, the guy posting most of these shit should be banned, it could well be 70% of all the posts are trolls trolling trolls and as it is usualy said about such therads, its cancer

I was just saying that cultures spring up all over the place, but yes obviously there where the conditions are right
so im not realy saying anything against waht you say, a place like that realy isnt a good place to start from

i didnt even consider arguin for or against the shitposter

even tho you always have to take in account the inkas, as a mountain civilistion, but thats a different story

wathever...

i cant understand why these treads arent deleted as soon as they start...

next time i see a thread about this kind of shit ill start one about piramids in bosna just to see which one gathers more crap and 404s first

File: tt1207899bows.jpg (286KB, 1092x784px) Image search: [Google]

286KB, 1092x784px

>>89569
>>89497
here's a better preserved painting

>>89502
>we didn't go directly from ''grunts and noises'' to written complex languages

No, that happened naturally during the process of going from you and your extended family harvesting the area near the local river to a cooperation of families planting grains in the mud of the river, to a settlement pooling in its resources to farm on a large scale and keep animals, to a city walling off its property to defend against other peoples, and needing law code and bureaucracy and a bunch of other words and terms and such.

Civilization demands more complex language, which develops it. If there is no civilization, no complexity, then there is no reason for language to develop. You dont need a word for walls or village if the land around you cant feed more than 5 people.

>>85097
I won't speak for all, but some of them really are.
A lot of natives here go to the US because they are isolated or ignored by the government and don't have too many options. Even some of them don't know how to speak spanish properly before trying to cross the border.

>>85685
>South Asians

These niggas are WAY too mixed to be considered a single race. You have your Caucasian North Indians, your Dravadian/Austronesian South Indians (some even have Australian Aborigine DNA), your Asian Northeast Indians, not to mention the native Jarawa people (they look black but are older than almost everyone on the planet with truly ancient DNA, and are almost extinct), African descendants of slaves brought over, Europeans, Arabs, etc. You can't call the entirety of South Asians Caucasian, that's just weird.

>>89574
>threads like this
There was nothing wrong with this thread until both sides of the arguement desecended into mindless shitposting/arguing like SJWs with key parts of posts being ignored.

File: Sami.jpg (58KB, 584x400px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 584x400px

>>85715
>Swedes
>Too tan

What the fuck? What about the Sami?

>>89574
He isnt a troll, he is just wrong. Wrong people shouldnt be banned, they should be argued.
At least he attempts to defend his points and brings citations and tries to make a point, unlike other posters here.

The american civilizations also started near large bodies of water, where the mud being thrown produces grasses, and people can eat the grains of the grasses, animals can eat the grasses, people can eat the animals, animals can fertilize the land, the river will give more fresh mud, etc.
I've even had a creationist argue with me that the fertile valley geographical phenomena is designed by an omnipotent divine power, its just so perfect for civilizations to occur near them.

>>89619
>He isnt a troll, he is just wrong.
You clearly don't know him.

On /pol/, he creates daily threads about we wuz kings.

>>85799
>Madagascar
>black

>>89574
>the guy posting most of these shit
What shit? Define ''shit''.

>the shitposter
How are my posts shitposts?

Do you even know anything about Ancient Egypt? Do the names Djoser, Khufu, Djedefra, Pepi I or Mentuhotep II even sound familiar? There's this great book out there for people like you who are completely clueless:

www.amazon.com/The-Oxford-History-Ancient-Egypt/dp/0192804588

>>89646
Hello my fellow afrocentrist, who do you recommend I read first, Keita or Diop?

>>89600
Sudan is the country with the highest Bedouin population you imbecile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedouin
and it clearly says LOWER NUBIA (Northern Nubia).

>>89619
>he is just wrong
Nice arguments there, you're free to go argue with academics and scholars until you're blue in the face.

>>89629
>he creates daily threads about we wuz kings.
I have never created a single thread related to Egypt.

White people just stealing black history as usual. I bet you all believe Carthage and Hannibal were white, too.

This name fag is such a fucking retard. Literally time and time again he has been proven wrong but the Afrocentrist in him just can't let go off his overreaching arguments and him grasping as straws. Ancient Egyptians looked like modern day Egyptians with some Nilotic people in there as well. Enough with this shit already.

>>88232
>If you have to categorize them into either black or white they fit more as black.
Be careful, that way leads to argentina shitposting and "Wogs start at Calais"

I think the idea is that Egyptians are black because for a time their ruling class were black, due to a Nubian invasion. By that logic, Nelson Mandela is a Boer.

>>89659
>afrocentrist
I'm not an afrocentrist. I would probably be if I were a frustrated afro-american though.

>>89683
>Nice arguments there

My arguments are in my responses to your posts. You are yet to address them.
The map you posted simply points to the worst place possible and says something big started there. This cant be the case.
You didnt say where the map is from. You didnt say what prompted the maps creation. You didnt say whos idea was it to put this african homeland in a barren mountain.

Its a picture, that I called stupid, explained why its stupid, and you didnt address me, nor defend it, nor post the source for it.

I have another 2 hours and 40 minutes in the office, I'm monitoring the thread. Respond to me with something more than claims that you can develop language that then spreads around the whole continent without having a single city.

>>89686
You said
>>89600
>That's clearly a nigger
and implied that a ''nigger'' cannot be a bedouin when in reality modern-day Sudan (Ancient Nubia) has the highest Bedouin population.

Now crawl back to /pol/ and take your name-calling with you kiddo.

>>89727
>and implied that a ''nigger'' cannot be a bedouin
Right.

>when in reality modern-day Sudan (Ancient Nubia) has the highest Bedouin population.
So what?

Are you fucking retarded? Just because the USA has the highest european population of the american continent, doesn't mean that a black american is an european american.

Jesus.

>>89722
>My arguments are in my responses to your posts. You are yet to address them.
What posts? I've replied to every reply I've received.

>The map you posted simply points to the worst place possible and says something big started there. This cant be the case.
Read this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroasiatic_Urheimat

I've told you this twice already.

>you didnt address me, nor defend it, nor post the source for it.
See >>88876 >>89168 >>89251 >>89294 >>89415 >>89502

File: F2.large.jpg (145KB, 1280x878px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 1280x878px

>>89722
>you can develop language that then spreads around the whole continent without having a single city.
Tell me which language is mentioned on the map. Do you know anything about linguistic families and the spread of languages? Take those 2 hours and 40 mins to read this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language

>>89696
I looked up egyptian felahin and it looks like he's BTFO of everyone disagreeing with him

Tripfaggin is still cancer though

>>89430
>There is nothing there.
Have you seen the Fertile Crescent lately?
Maybe it was more habitable 10,000 years ago, and that changing is why they all decided to leave.

File: 1432849414206.jpg (48KB, 348x463px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 348x463px

>>89722
>>89755
>>89781
>a linguistic family needs a city for it to spread

Never heard that one before

7/10 if bait

>>89755
>wiki/Afroasiatic_Urheimat
The first sentence states this is an unpopular hypothesis, and not fact.
The image shows a different region.
This this article has nothing to do with what you are trying to sell in the thread.

>the responses
Unrelated lists of words, combined with posts saying you can have a deep and complex language without having a deep and complex society, which is factually wrong, as observed throughout history in every other place.

Also, you never responded to my last post, >>89589, in which I state exactly that.
You need a complex society to produce a complex language. You need an urbanized settlement, with people who arent just a family clan, to have the need for a complex language.
The geographical area you presented simply wouldnt support such a settlement in the time period claimed.


>>89781
Note how all of these languages came into existence near fertile valleys if big rivers.
Note how the area you are defending as the african language homeland doesnt have a fertile valley of a big river.
Urbanization demands communication and organization, which produces complex language. From the big cities, the civilization creates colonies, and spreads.
The empty rock you marked on your map wasnt the home of any cities, nor any civilizations, and by extension, it didnt start any languages.

Stop parroting an unproven hypothesis, that didnt even evolve enough to be called a theory on its own heavily biased wiki article.

>>89792
>Tripfaggin
That's just because I don't want anyone pretending to be me and making ridiculous afrocentrist claims pretending to be me. Since these threads aren't as frequent as they are on /pol/, I'd take my trip off if there were IDs here.

The whole ''hurr le kill tripfags xD'' meme is childish btw. Anonymity is good but I don't see what's the big deal with knowing that the anon you're talking with is the anon with whom you talked with earlier.

>>89816
A linguistic family needs a city to be created. Why the fuck would you create a complex language if all of your world revolves around walking forward, picking berries where you see them, fucking the woman which isnt your mother or sister, and repeating it tomorrow?

>>89792

>egyptian felahin

It means farmer/peasant, and the drop in population is because of urbanisation. If they were distinct from the urban Egyptians, they'd have blackened the cities.

>>89837
>The first sentence states this is an unpopular hypothesis, and not fact.
I know. It took over 1hour and 30mins to finally get it. Wow.

>this article has nothing to do with what you are trying to sell in the thread.
I'm not trying to sell anything and it has a lot to do with the silly replies you've been giving me.

>saying you can have a deep and complex language without having a deep and complex society
When the hell did I ever claim this?????? Jesus Christ your reading comprehension really is shit. I said that there is no need for a civilization to exist for a LANGUAGE to exist and you told me about ''grunts and noises'' to which I replied letting you know that we didn't go from ''grunts and noises'' to complex written languages.

8/10 if bait

>>89889
How the fuck can you have a deep and complex society without civilization, you deluded imbecile?

>>89837
>You need a complex society to produce a complex language
Define ''complex language''.

>civilizations start languages
I'm done with you.

>>89619

but the whole point is absurd

we dont even understand which categories we are using

are we working with categories of -race- -ethnicity- or -phenotype- ? or all 3 at once ?

are we talking about cultural and linguistic groups, ethnic groups, or just about melanin levels?

because it seems like the major point is that the melanin levels were higher at some point as opposed to lover at another point, which doesnt realy seem to be a point as much as a obvious probability

are we talking about weather ancient egiptian populations migrated from the south or that there was just one founder population(how could this be?) or that at some point a migration occured from subsaharan regions?
are we assuming there were never any other local populations to begin with(how could this be?)?

considering were talking about a set of political and territorial entities that spanned across two continets and existed for some 4000+ years, how can we realy put it all down to one basic population, one phenotype, one set of ''origins''

are we taking into account the climate changing going back thousands of years?

can we realy know which people came from where going back, say, 10000 years? how? haplogroups, language, what?

are we even considering the decomposition and chemical changes in the pigment on the frescos shown in picrelated?

as someone who worked in restauration i can clearly tell you that, unless it has been worked on, that is not the original colour of the pigment, this would be a physical imposibility
so the main argument, the images from the tombs and temples, are themselves pretty useles, especialy since we dont have the translations of what its actualy about
for all we know the quotation might say - ''import-export new nubian slave-dancers, only 99.99!''

its all... its all absurd i dont even... wouldnt it be easier to just delete the thread, wouldnt it?

File: d9392ad079c5fa09277fe5b29c63a8c719e983a5.jpg (556KB, 899x450px) Image search: [Google]

556KB, 899x450px

>>89851
>le we were savages before big cities meme
pic related is Çatalhöyük, about 10 000 years old. Also think of all the small villages and settlements that existed in the past prior to the Bronze Age.

File: bottom panel.jpg (320KB, 1600x955px) Image search: [Google]

320KB, 1600x955px

>>89876
>they'd have blackened the cities
Why are you ignoring the bubonic plague that killed 40% of the population before the urbanisation and all the mass migrations from West Asia?

>>89909
>Man go boat water cheap food bring home.
>We shall go build boats and sail across the sea, where we can trade for cheap food to bring back to your settlement.

Fuck it, the easiest part is the number of words. Why would uncivilized people have words for temple, wall, king, tax, write, army, property, divorce, court, and so on? Just like that a civilized people's language will be drastically more complex, by its sheer volume, since there are more thing to be named.
And because the code of law requires precision, you have past tense, future, what is a personal name and what is a family name, words that used to mean 5 different things being divided into 5 words to avoid confusion, etc.

Complexity breeds complexity, its an avalanche, and you cant have that without urbanization.

>>89939
>here is a picture of an old city, which proves that we dont need cities

Son, you have brain deficiency.

>>89904
How the fuck can you miss the point this fucking hard and put so many words in my mouth? Jesus Christ 8/10 if bait.

>>89970
Eurasians Migrated South into East Africa from at least 2000BC and spread their Caucasoid features to East Africans, these same Eurasians colonized EUROPE 4000 years earlier.
The reason we see Caucasoid features in East Africans is due them retaining Eurasian features.

> Ancient Ethiopian genome reveals extensive Eurasian admixture throughout the African continent.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26449472
> Here, we present a 12.5x coverage ancient genome of an Ethiopian male ('Mota') who lived approximately 4,500 years ago. We use this genome to demonstrate that the Eurasian backflow into Africa came from a population closely related to Early Neolithic farmers, who had colonized Europe 4,000 years earlier. The extent of this backflow was much greater than previously reported, reaching all the way to Central, West and Southern Africa, affecting even populations such as Yoruba and Mbuti, previously thought to be relatively unadmixed, who harbor 6-7% Eurasian ancestry.


> Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24550290
> we also find evidence for two admixture events in the history of Kenyan, Tanzanian, and Ethiopian populations, the earlier of which involved populations related to west Eurasians and which we date to ~2,700-3,300 y ago. We reconstruct the allele frequencies of the putative west Eurasian population in eastern Africa and show that this population is a good proxy for the west Eurasian ancestry in southern Africa. The most parsimonious explanation for these findings is that west Eurasian ancestry entered southern Africa indirectly through eastern Africa.


EURASIANS MIGRATED OUT OF EGYPT INTO THE HUNTER GATHERER BLACKS


HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT EGYPT WAS A EURASIAN CIVILIZATION?

File: info Origin.jpg (218KB, 800x598px) Image search: [Google]

218KB, 800x598px

>>89910
>can we realy know which people came from where going back, say, 10000 years? how? haplogroups, language, what?
(1/3)
>Specific central African tool designs found at the well known Naqada, Badari and Fayum archaeological sites in Egypt (de Heinzelin 1962, Arkell and Ucko, 1956 et al). Shaw (1976) states that "the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life."

>Pottery evidence first seen in the Saharan Highlands then spreading to the Nile Valley (Flight 1973).

>Art motifs of Saharan rock paintings showing similarities to those in pharaonic art. A number of scholars suggest that these earlier artistic styles influenced later pharaonic art via Saharans leaving drier areas and moving into the Nile Valley taking their art styles with them (Mori 1964, Blanc 1964, et al)

>Earlier pioneering mummification outside Egypt. The oldest mummy in Africa is of a black Saharan child (Donadoni 1964, Blanc 1964) Frankfort (1956) suggests that it is thus possible to understand the pharaonic worldview by reference to the religious beliefs of these earlier African precursors. Attempts to suggest the root of such practices are due to Caucasoid civilizers from elsewhere are thus contradicted by the data on the ground.

>Several cultural practices of Egypt show strong similarities to an African totemic clan base. Childe (1969, 1978), Aldred (1978) and Strouhal (1971) demonstrate linkages with several African practices such as divine kingship and the king as divine rainmaker.

>>89851
>Hunter gatherer societies had no languages

is that what you're saying son?

File: info African Egypt.jpg (338KB, 1013x739px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 1013x739px

>>89910
>can we realy know which people came from where going back, say, 10000 years? how? haplogroups, language, what?
Continued (2/3):

>Physical similarities of the early Nile valley populations with that of tropical Africans. Such connections are demonstrated in the work of numerous scholars such as Thompson and Randall Mclver 1905, Falkenburger 1947, and Strouhal 1971. The distance diagrams of Mukherjee, Rao and Trevor (1955) place the ancient Badarians genetically near 'black' tribes such as the Ashanti and the Taita. See also the "Issues of lumping under Mediterranean clusters" section above for similar older analyses.

>Serological (blood) evidence of genetic linkages. Paoli 1972 for example found a significant resemblance between ABO frequencies of dynastic Egyptians and the black northern Haratin who are held to be the probable descendants of the original Saharans (Hiernaux, 1975).

>Language similarities which include several hundred roots ascribable to African elements (UNESCO 1974)

>Ancient Egyptian origin stories ascribing origins of the gods and their ancestors to African locations to the south and west of Egypt (Davidson 1959)

>Advanced state building and political unity in Nubia, including writing, administrative apparatus and insignia some 300 years before dynastic Egypt, and the long demonstrated interchange between Nubia and Egypt (Williams 1980)

>>84628
/pol/ack here, can't we let this meme die? It's been beaten to death already on /pol/. Yes, one dynasty that lasted a little over 100 years were ruled by the Nubians, thats it.

File: Nile map (1).png (90KB, 320x586px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 320x586px

>>89910
Also:

>Newer studies (Wendorf 2001, Wilkinson 1999, et al.) confirm these older analyses. Excavations from Nabta Playa, located about 100km west of Abu Simbel for example, suggest that the Neolithic inhabitants of the region were migrants from Sub-Saharan Africa, based on cultural similarities and social complexity which is thought to be reflective of Egypt's Old Kingdom

>Other scholars (Wilkinson 1999) present similar material and cultural evidence- including similarities between predynastic Egypt and traditional African cattle-culture, typical of Southern Sudanese and East African pastoralists of today, and various cultural and artistic data such as iconography on rock art found in both Egypt and in the Sudan.

and it is well understood among modern scholars and academic expert on the subject that Egypt's civilization originates from the Southern Nile Valley.

>>90017
They had no complex language. Look at the earlier posts, the claim is that there is a place in the mountains in Ethiopia, where african language started and from where it spread around the world.
However this place is incapable of supporting any civilization or complexity, because its geographically harsh and ill connected.

File: image_1681_1e-Catalhoyuk.jpg (226KB, 1280x800px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 1280x800px

>>89983
See >>89989

and it's a settlement, not a ''complex civilization''.

>>90011
>EGYPT WAS A EURASIAN CIVILIZATION
It wasn't and you're mentally ill.

http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/text/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpubmed%2F24550290/

The conservative mainstream Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt shows ancient Egypt derived from an African cultural sub-stratum:

>"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeast African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egyptian in a close relationship with languages spoken today as far west as Chad, and as far south as Somalia. Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time).

>Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons...

>Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization.."

The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, 2001. Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p.28

If you want to see what an ancient Egyptian looked like, look no further than the Coptic Christians of Egypt. As seen in Greece, when Islam came into play, their oppressed religious group didn't not mix into the oppressing group, modern Greeks have no central asian Turkish genes despite living under the Turks for 700 years, the same is true for the Copts, even though their language is dead in everyday use, their genes are untouched by the Arabs who rule over them.

>>90050
>its a settlement, not a city!!!

top kek, mate.
Are we going to argue semantics now?

Its bigger than anything the geographical region you are pointing towards had 10000 years ago, or even has today.

>>90032
Black doesn't mean Nubian pal.

>>90078
No offense but you're talking out of your ass.

See
>>88380
Older research notes the physical makeup of the original Copts, now confirmed by recent DNA data above:

>"In Libya, which is mostly desert and oasis, there is a visible Negroid element in the sedentary populations, and at the same is true of the Fellahin of Egypt, whether Copt or Muslim. Osteological studies have shown that the Negroid element was stronger in predynastic times than at present, reflecting an early movement northward along the banks of the Nile, which were then heavily forested.”

(Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. "Populations, Human”)

>>90083
Egyptian doesn't mean black.
I already slapped your shit once when I linked that National Geographic article about Ramses 2 having red hair, why can't you learn your lesson.

>>90118
>(Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. "Populations, Human”)
GTFO OUT OF HERE

>>89970

You're saying the fellahin, that you yourself quote as being 60%, and "much higher in the early 20th century, before the large influx of Egyptian fellahin into urban towns and cities" are clear proof of the different ethnic origins of the Egyptians, and then that this massive majority actually isn't one because they were reduced by a plague several centuries earlier, making the modern fellahin and their urban migrants unrepresentative of the origins of the Egyptians.

File: red hair dont care.jpg (61KB, 668x1000px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 668x1000px

>>90129
>having red hair
sounds familiar

>>84628
>Moses
topkek there is no archaeological evidence of Jews in Egypt during the building of the pyramids.

there were never Jews in Egypt during the building of the pyramids.

>>90129
>Egyptian doesn't mean black.
Are you stupid?

>Ramses 2 having red hair
During Rameses II's time there were quite a few foregin mercenaries settled amongst the autochtonous population in the Delta. Probabaly even some Hyksos people remained in the Delta and over the years a gradual migration of Canaanite people migrated into the Delta. We know as far back as the 12th dyansty as Sinuhe tells us that Southern Upper Egypt and the furthest part of the Delta was so distinct that people from the regions would not reognize themselves nor understand the speech of the people in Upper Egypt.
Rameses II's ancestors came from non-royal ancestry from a mercenary family that was promoted by Horemheb. We know that most of the mercenaries in Egyptian armies tended to be either Libyans, Canaanites and Nubians. Around this time quite a few Libyans migrated into the Delta often intermarrying with local Egyptian women and producing offsprings. Rameses II's Canaanite heritage is evident since one of his own daughters is named Bint Anath[Bint means daughter in Arabic],so it appears that his family's origins also included Canaanite elements.

File: Peruvian mummies collage.jpg (454KB, 1951x2400px) Image search: [Google]

454KB, 1951x2400px

>>90129
The finding of Rameses "red" hair also deserves further scrutiny. The analysis found evidence of dyeing to make the hair yellowish-red, but some elements were untouched by the dye. These elements of yellowish-red hair in Balout's study, were established on the basis of the presence of pheomelanin, a red-brown polymeric pigment in the skin and hair of humans. However, pheomelanin can also be found in persons with dark brown or even black hair as well, which gives it a reddish hue. Most natural melanins contain sulfur, which is typically associated with pheomelanin.

In scientific tests of melanin, black hair contained as much as 5% sulfur, 3% lower than the 8.8% found in Irish red hair, but exceeding the 2.3% found in Scandinavian blond hair. (Jolles, et al. 1996) Thus the yellowish-red hair discovered on Rameses is well within the range of human variation for dark haired people, whatever the exact gene combination that led to the condition.

>>90355
There were no jews at all in Bronze Age Egypt.

>"The Twenty-Sixth Dynasty, also known as the Saite Period, lasted from 672 BC to 525 BC. During this time many Jews came to Egypt, fleeing the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusaine and other settlements in Upper Egypt (see Jeremiah Chapters 43 and 44)."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Period_of_ancient_Egypt

File: muh ginger Egypt.jpg (458KB, 2400x2355px) Image search: [Google]

458KB, 2400x2355px

>>90129
So yeah, not a single shred of evidence supports your ''ginger Egypt'' delirium.

Why do people think claiming Egyptian history makes them awesome in the first place? Egypt fucking sucked. Bitch of the Hyksos, bitch of the Persians, bitch of the Assyrians, bitch of the Greeks, the Romans, the Arabs ...

>BUT MUH ROCKS

>Namefag is healthily skeptical and provides sources beyond memes and image macros
>Faggots are mad at him because he disagrees with pop-history even though questioning pop-history for the sake of questioning pop-history is considered enough reason to support certain conspiracy theories by admission of many people on this site
Stay inconsistent yah dinks

>>90497
Egyptians were very good at a few important things.
>producing grain very reliably
>stacking stones very high
>producing large amounts of men
>not collapsing into chaos when they get conquered
>not fielding too much resistance when somebody stronger comes along

Basically they are built for endurance, and persisted throughout the years.

On an admittedly anecdotal level, the thing that gets me about people who say that Egyptians can't possibly be black based on the skin color of the people in paintings is that I'm maaaaybe 2 or 3 generations removed from my Irish ancestry, and my skin is basically the same color as the people in those paintings (as well as, interestingly enough, a Sri Lankan dude I met; I've also been mistaken for Sri Lankan by another wholly unrelated person).

On top of that, the denial of Egyptian heritage to Africans strikes me as similar to the denial of Greek and Roman heritage to Europeans. We're humans; the meme is as important as the gene when it comes to cultural heritage.

File: egypte-deir-el-bahari-carte-iconique-thebes2.jpg (137KB, 1623x1066px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 1623x1066px

>>90497
>Egypt fucking sucked
2/10

>Bitch of the Hyksos
They ruled for one dynasty only during the second intermediate period before being BTFO.

>bitch of the Persians
Only during the late period.

The rest too was all after thousands of years of glorious history.

>>90550
>not collapsing into chaos when they get conquered
Actually they collapsed into chaos quite often.

>>85964
>this is shown by their art.
Greek and Roman art consequently depict them as looking pretty much exactly the same as they look today.

>>90644
Come on now, man. If there are two things every person knows about Egypt, those are that they build pyramids and that they get conquered by everyone all the time.

>>90644
Fuck off fag, Egypt was and still is a third world shithole being bitchslapped by everyone around it.

>>90654
Greek and Roman art depict the Greek and Roman people living in the north most parts of the Egyptian Province of the Roman and Alexandrian empires and their successor states.

>>88467
Many of these girls look rather Hindu.

File: egypte-abou-simbel-vue.jpg (195KB, 1000x656px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 1000x656px

>>90667
That's what clueless people who don't know anything about Egypt's history think.

>>90670
What is the Old Kingdom? What is the Middle Kingdom? What is the New Kingdom? Ancient Egypt isn't even my favorite civilization but you're talking out of your ass to be honest family.

File: *Wall art collage (7).jpg (632KB, 2400x1989px) Image search: [Google]

632KB, 2400x1989px

>>90654
You mean Fayum portraits? Hahaha.

>It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians. By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins.

Bagnall, R.S. in Susan Walker, ed. Ancient Faces : Mummy Portraits in Roman Egypt (Metropolitan Museum of Art Publications). New York: Routledge, 2000

>>90711
>What is the New Kingdom?

A shithole that gets hyped up for building a bunch of utterly useless megalitic structures, while in reality the greatest thing they ever did was signing a peace treaty with the Hittites.

File: 1382393291289.jpg (83KB, 699x662px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 699x662px

Portraying Moses as an anglo man is actually more historically inaccurate than portraying Egyptians as blacks

At least blacks actually existed in Egyptian society and had a lot of contact with them, white europeans had absolutely nothing to do with the region

File: 1439471733048.gif (911KB, 227x175px) Image search: [Google]

911KB, 227x175px

>>89455

>I am a white nationalist, therefore I can speak for all white nationalists and can tell you what the consensus among them is.

File: 1. Narmer (ca. 3150BC - 1st Dynasty).png (328KB, 815x275px) Image search: [Google]

328KB, 815x275px

>>90739
It became an Empire and was very prosperous.

>>90765
This and we all know who's better suited to portray Narmer aka the first pharaoh of Egypt's dynastic history.

pic related

WE

WAS

Mamluk Sultanate

File: 6 african ethnic groups.png (798KB, 852x671px) Image search: [Google]

798KB, 852x671px

>>88100
This is why the whole black vs white historical figures thing annoys me. Afrocentrists are buying into the same bullshit race theories they're fighting against, assuming that everyone is Africa is part of the "black race" and somehow all the same. Africa has so many ethnicities, languages and cultures, it's a fucking huge place.

It's an incredibly America-centric view and frames all of African history in terms of American civil rights, which I think approaches the chauvanism of the racist anti-African views.

KINGZ

>>86420
Plenty of parts of the US have strong cultures, Louisiana is as rich as any European country (I'm European btw) and the south together could probably make up another as well as New England. Blacks could probably count as a scattered nation themselves, similar to jews and that's without even mentioning the many Native tribes.

The problem is the vast and soulless swathes of recently settled flyover states that make up the American heartland, as well as the vapid and bland popular arts mill. They really kill whatever culture America manages to develop.

>>90765
But why should the blacks get riled up about it? For fucks sake, they portray Annie, the Human Torch, and FUCKING SPIDERMAN as black, why can't we use a good white actor to play the goddamned lead role?

>>90932
All of these people are on average shorter than Europeans, yet all african descendants in USA or Europe are taller and stronger on average.

How does that work out?

File: info Diversity.jpg (351KB, 900x658px) Image search: [Google]

351KB, 900x658px

>>90932
pic related

>>90932
Americans have reduced 'race' into skin tone and facial features. I read some writing about the South in the 1800's. A very light-skinned black man wrapped a turban on his head and said he was Indian. He was treated entirely different from people you'd traditional label as black.