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Benevolent Dictators

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ITT: Authoritarians that actually did right by their country

Portugal's Antonio Salazar is one that comes to mind. A reluctant leader, stabilized his country, led it to economic recovery, kept it out of WW2 and even helped funnel refugees to the Americas. In short did literally nothing wrong.
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Lincoln
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>>74986
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>>75010
He did suspend habeas corpus were copperheads purged during the war?
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>>75076
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Criminally underrated
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>>75010
did he purged many gorillions like Stalin?
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>>75228

Manlet nation
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Pinochet

Lee Kwan Yu

Tito
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>>75251
Did the standard of life for the non-purged commie improve under stain?
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>>75315
>Tito
wut?
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>>75325
Broz before hos mang
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>>75228

lol, that pic has the opposite effect of it's intension. It makes them look pretty insecure about their size.
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>>75317
1922 vs 1953? Definitely.

The bits in between are a little debatable.
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>>75339
i don't know why is him considered a dictator
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>>75325

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito

Literally says in the first paragraph he was wildly viewed as a "benevolent dictator".
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>>75385
Because he effectively ran the country for almost 40 years?
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>>75315
>>75325
Tito is the one who prevented this from happening for as long as it did
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The Brazilian dictatorship was pretty mild in comparison to others
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Indira Gandhi to a point
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>>75419
Forgot pic

He tried to warn them
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>>75468
that is pretty sad
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>>75446

Didn't Pedro resign as Emperor even when they wanted him?
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>>75339
>tells both superpowers to go fuck themselves for 40 years

Absolutely based beyond belief.
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>>74986
Pinochet

Franco

Salazar

Park (south korea)

Lee Kwan Yu

Basically, if lefties hate him, he did things right.
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>>75251
This. Stalin was based as hell.
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>>75464
Except she did diddly squat for India
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A S S A D
S
S
A
D
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>>75539
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>>75547
>>75251
Kek, you faggots wouldn't last a day under Stalin.
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>>75573
>benevolent

I don't think so.
>>75583
Fuck off.
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>>75539
This. I'm enjoying this board so far.
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>>75608
Probably. But the fact that he did rigth to his nation is undebatable.
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>>75622
what did pinochet do for Chile?
>inb4 he killed gommies xDDDDDDDDD
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>>75513
What? I'm talking about the 20th century military
dictatorship, like Getulio Vargas
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>>75251
>>75547
Stalinfags pls explain your reasoning
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>>75583
Not b8ing.

Compare South Korea to North Korea

Compare Chile to Cuba

Compare Singapore to Cambodia

Compare Spain to Romania/Hungary/Poland
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>>75664
It is very debatable. Stalin was a butcher who massacred all the smart russians.

>>75669
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Chile
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>>75722
because the USSR lost the cold war....if the US had lost the cold war, all of those countries that you mentioned as being "good" they would be shitholes
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After the civil war that is.
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>>75539
>Franco
>benevolent
Franco had no reason to even become a dictator in the first place, the Republican government he overthrew was only mildly left wing and the communist/anarchist elements only emerged in self defence after Franco had already attempted his coup
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>>75711
He transformed a nation of half starving peasants into an industrial, scientific and military power.
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>>75745
>.if the US had lost the cold war, all of those countries that you mentioned as being "good" they would be shitholes
This is backwards logic. The USSR lost the cold war because it was a poverty-ridden shithole. It didn't become a poverty-ridden shithole because it lost the cold war.
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>>75741
ask to any chilean in /int/ if that shit helped their country
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>>75669
miracle of Chile

bonus: killed commies
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>>75785
>Franco had no reason to even become a dictator in the first place,
Had to save spain from the reds m8
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>>75806
>yes im sure that would be a representative sample of people who knew what they were talking about

>>75813
the reds only became a problem after Franco started his war and threw the whole country into chaos
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>>75788
But... holodomor there is a reason we're not listing hitler and mussolini
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>>75806
They weren't even born then, why would their opinion matter?
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>>75838
>the reds only became a problem after Franco started his war and threw the whole country into chaos
Suuuuree...
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>>75790
>poverty-ridden shithole
That was the Russian empire before Stalin.
The USSR lost the cold war because the keks that came after Stalin and their de-stalinization fucked up what was one of the great powers of the 20th century.
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>>75812
>>75841
you ain't hooking me
>>75790
>The USSR lost the cold war because it was a poverty-ridden shithole.
but the US was all good during the cold war, right?
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>>75839
>holodomor
Ukranians where pretty much traitors. Almost all of them fought in the side of the nationalists, anarchists or royalists.
And holodomor was not as big as western propaganda try to make it. There's a reson why there are still Ukranians.
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>>75872
>but the US was all good during the cold war, right?

Good and evil have nothing to do with it. Capitalism is objectively better than communism, hence the outcome of the cold war.
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>>75932
>Capitalism is objectively better than communism
in 1929, it was otherwise
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>>75859
>That was the Russian empire before Stalin.
Of course not. Russians in the early 1900s were far wealthier and far better fed than under Stalin.

>The USSR lost the cold war because the keks that came after Stalin and their de-stalinization fucked up what was one of the great powers of the 20th century.
You're a fucking moron, so I know what I will say won't change your opinion, but the Gulag slave labor system, which was the reason why Russia industralized, had become unsustainable in the early 50s.

>>75872
>but the US was all good during the cold war, right?
Right. It was by far the wealthiest place on earth.
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>>75954
In 1929, the average american lived a faaaar better life than the average soviet, I can tell you that.
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>>75954
The soviet union was an agrarian shithole in 1929.
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>>75980
>>75974
hahahahaha, the USSR was rising, while the US was poor as fuck
>>75959
you and the USSR were walthiest
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>>75927
>And holodomor was not as big as western propaganda try to make it. There's a reson why there are still Ukranians.

That's a fucking idiotic reasoning

There's still Tutsis and Jews and Armenians and Irish too
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>>76007
>i'm retarded: the post
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>>75980
The soviet union was actually in far better shape in 1929 than in 1939...
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>>75959
>Of course not. Russians in the early 1900s were far wealthier and far better fed than under Stalin.
Untrue. There's a reason why there was a revolution. The people didn't overtrown the tzar just because they were bored.

>Gulag slave labor system, which was the reason why Russia industralized, had become unsustainable in the early 50s.
By the 50s the USSR already had an industrial complex that rivaled the west trough decades.
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>>76007
Ladies and gentlemen, the average intelligence of the /lit/izen
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>>76022
>>76048
>americans(or his allies) thinking that i am from /lit/ because i am saying the the USSR was better than the US
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>>76035
>Untrue.
Very true. Try reading a book once in a while.

>There's a reason why there was a revolution.
Right, I'm not saying life under the Tsar was perfect, the autocratic system clearly had to go, but the standards of living of the average russian peasant and of the average industrial worker were much higher under the Tsar in the early 19th century than under Stalin up until the 1950s.

>By the 50s the USSR already had an industrial complex that rivaled the west trough decades.
Lol'd
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>>76067
You said the U.S. was poor was shit

That's just dumb
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>>76067
If the USSR was better, why is it gone while America still stands?
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>>75228
It always surprises me just how small Europe is, it always seems much bigger.
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Augusto Pinochet prevented Chile from becoming a violent, poor and corrupt socialist shithole, like Venezuela has become under Hugo Chavez. I don't even care much about his economically liberal policies and whether or not they are responsible from the "Miracle of Chile".
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>>76097
>>76102
i am talking about 1929
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>>76117
So are we.

Life in the USSR in 1929 was atrocious.
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>>76117
The USSR was behind in every category against the US in 1929
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>>74986
You should read this text, OP. Try not to cry while reading it.

https://adarkwindhowls.wordpress.com/2015/01/30/when-progs-attack-fall-of-the-portuguese-empire-edition/
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>>76089
>but the standards of living of the average russian peasant and of the average industrial worker were much higher under the Tsar in the early 19th century than under Stalin up until the 1950s.
Not true. The average peasant in the 19th century was literally living form famine to famine due to weather and war. The average worker of the USSR may have been not as well as he would have liked but at least they had food every day in their tables. Also Stalin's industrialization of the country allowed for more electrical lines, more trains, modern apliances, etc.
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>>76114
Benevolent? He was the head of a corrupt dictatorship that violently repressed any kind of opposition. Even if you agree with his political views he was still a bloody thief
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>>76186
>The average worker of the USSR may have been not as well as he would have liked but at least they had food every day in their tables.

Tell that to Ukraine.
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>>76133
>>76145
Because they were just out of ww1 and a decade long civil war. By the time Stalin died they were far better than they were in the 1929 and before.
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>>76186
>Not true. The average peasant in the 19th century was literally living form famine to famine due to weather and war
Shit meant 20th century.

Early 1900s...

>The average worker of the USSR may have been not as well as he would have liked but at least they had food every day in their tables
Nope. Rations were incredibly low. Workers were starved, and those who complained got a one way ticket to the gulag. Worst of all, they had to work 8 hours a day 7 days of the week. Some paradise you tell me!

>Also Stalin's industrialization of the country allowed for more electrical lines, more trains, modern apliances, etc.
Must've been great if you were still alive.
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>>76215
>Ukraine
Who the fuck cares about a bunch of traitors anyway? They had it comming.
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Mi General...
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>>76217
>By the time Stalin died they were far better than they were in the 1929 and before.

You specifically talking about that time period now you've moved the goalposts and you're talking about how it was after Stalin, like 30 years later

Yeah and the U.S. was going through its greatest economic boom in its fucking history
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>>76221
>Nope. Rations were incredibly low. Workers were starved, and those who complained got a one way ticket to the gulag. Worst of all, they had to work 8 hours a day 7 days of the week. Some paradise you tell me!
That's just propaganda. Those who worked against the revolution deservedly were sent to the gullag, thats all.

>Must've been great if you were still alive.
Like a fuck load of people that were still alive then.
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>>76145
evidence plz
>inb4 muh gulags
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>>76193
Only while it was necessary, during the 1980s, he allowed political parties and opposition again.
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>>76288
>inb4 muh gulags

>you're not allowed to use evidence
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>>76284
>That's just propaganda.
Blimey.

It was official law : https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/vance/1941/01/russia2.htm

You're quite clearly a stalinkek. You should probably kill yourself.
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You can't ever get better than this
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>>76282
>after Stalin, like 30 years later
Stalin ruled up to around the year 1953. By 1929 he just had taken power and the war had just ended. You can't blame him for what happened before he took power.
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>>76320
yeah, I guess robbing the fucking country for his family benefit was necessary
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>>76357
/thread
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>>76330
you need to post evidence that the US was better than the USSR in every single aspect
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>>76358
>By 1929 he just had taken power and the war had just ended.
The war ended in 1922.

Instead of banning controversial posts, I think mods should ban historically illiterate retards like yourself. Too bad the mods are niggerloving keks.
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>>76339
>his sources are menshevik texts
Don't make me laugh.
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probably one of the greatest men of the 20th century. If only he had relinquished his power after a decade or so, people would be comparing him to George Washington.
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>>76444
You do know that laws were published in the Pravda, right? This is official soviet law.
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>>76413
>The war ended in 1922.
That's little time in an historical context and Stalin ruled only since 1927. You don't get a destroyed country and make it a super power in 5-2 years.
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>>76469
>supported some of the most brutal dictators in Africa
>benevolent

Imagine if the US sent troops in support of a dictator who killed 500,000 people and was responsible for a famine that killed another 400,000?

Leftists wouldn't shut up about how this was the greatest crime the US has ever committed. And yet that exactly what Fidel Castro did when he sent troops to Ethiopia to support the regime of Mengistu Haile Mariam.
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>>76519
>That's little time in an historical context
That's 7 years. By 1952, the ash heap which Japan was 1945 was back to being a first world economy.

>You don't get a destroyed country and make it a super power in 5-2 years.
That's true. But like I've already said, Stalin actually made things worse.
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>>75839
>>75959
>>75927
>tfw Stalinfags and holodomor deniers exist

Kek
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>>76515
>Transcribed & marked up by Einde O’Callaghan for the Encyclopaedia of Trotskyism On-Line (ETOL).
>Trotskyism On-Line
>Trotskyism
>On-Line

He obviously had to make new rules for the context of a world war, but the slavery part is only propaganda.
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>>76067
Commies are so goddamn annoying.

USSR never even approached the USAs GDP
>>
>>
>>76598
evidence
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>>76469
His doc policies are awesome but hhade some pretty poor choices regarding growth. Cost the citizens pretty hard when the wall fell. Still quite a character
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>>76614
Now you're not even trying.
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>>76576
>Stalin actually made things worse.
Except he didn't. When Stalind died the USSR was a world power, with lots of art, science, technology and weaponry that rivaled the USA trough decades. You can't do that if the country is so fucked up as your propaganda sourced posts sugest.
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>>76637
>don't like people I don't like
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>>76622
This actually makes me laugh.

I'm sure that if a communist was in a sinking boat and you told him "the boat is sinking" he would say "do you have proof? The boat is not sinking. The boat is a good soviet boat"
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>>76664
you just need a fucking evidence and i will stop the posting
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>you will never defend the patria with you qt 3.14 saint teir wife

Cry for me Argentina.
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>>76639
>Except he didn't.
He did.

People were absolutely miserable under Stalin. They lived like animals. The industrialization of Russia was only made possible through the massive slavery of the russian population.

> When Stalind died the USSR was a world power
It was a shithole with nukes.

>with lots of art, science, technology and weaponry that rivaled the USA trough decades
Hahaha, what? The only area where it rivaled the USA was its space program, because it poured money into it for propaganda reasons. They were lucky Korolev didn't croak when he was shoveling shit at temperatures of -60°C in the frozen desert of the Kolyma gulag.

I bet you're so fucking stupid you've never heard of Korolev.

>You can't do that if the country is so fucked up as your propaganda sourced posts sugest.
You can, it's called "not giving a shit about human life".
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>>76696
Ok, now fuck off and never come back.
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>>76655
>benevolent
>>
Sure is a good century to be Russian
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>>76655
He wasn't benevolent he went to war he genocided millions he was the definition of belligerent
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>>75785

>band of socialists, communists, et al composed the Popular Front
>only mildy left wing

lel
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>>76761
>>76772
>t. US sources
i need an independent source
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>>76826
All right, now I'm mad.

I wish I had a helicopter right now.
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>>76826
>moving the goalposts
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>>76639
Look who didnt read Krutschevs speech or Gulag Archipelago or any relevant literature of the time, really.

>>76774
He was benevolent to his own people, just not to others.

And before the mods ban shit: if the commie can say the holodomor is all good and they deserve it for being traitors, we should be allowed to like Hitler damn it.

This board needs IDs.
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>>76089
>up until the 50s
You maybe missing the fact there was two huge wars going on between 1917 and 1957 right?
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>>76856
>>76868
i could use a pro-russia source and you will say the same shit against me
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>>76716
It won't be easy you'll think it's strange
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>>76894
Let's see it.

Let's see your source which shows soviet gdp/capita to be on par with america's.

>>76881
WW2 was actually beneficial to the russians who survived. The country was so devastated that there were a lot of job opportunities.

Kind of like the post black plague period in medieval europe.
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>>76774
>MUH WAR
>MUH GENOCIDE
Reddit?
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>>76581
alright, i'm not saying that the holodomer happened, but it wasn't stalin's fault
so basically, ukraine, being the breadbasket of eastern europe, had a shit ton of rich landowner farmers and legions of starving ukranians. stalin was all like "hey rich farmers, stop exporting all that shit to the rest of europe and give it to the people around you, but the farmers literally started burning their crops and moving to western europe
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>>76720
>It was a shithole with nukes.
And somehow where the first to reach space because the were a shit hole.

>Hahaha, what? The only area where it rivaled the USA was its space program
And pretty much every kind of art, technology and science, from math to psychology, some soviet scientist are still named in papers today. Don't be so obtuse.
Also who cares if they did it for propaganda (they obviously did it for strategic reasons). They did it, thats it, deal with it.

>not giving a shit about human life
>muh propaganda
Explain how you go from killing everyone indiscriminatelly, like the propaganda sugests, to a super power. Pro tip: you can't
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>>76921
When I try to explain how I feel
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>>76948
>stalin was all like "hey rich farmers, stop exporting all that shit to the rest of europe and give it to the people around you, but the farmers literally started burning their crops and moving to western europe
Kek what?

This couldn't be further from the truth. Stalin was the one who insisted on continuing to export millions of tons of wheat at the height of the famine.
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>>76954
Man, Soviet life was so good, I always hear about those Soviet citizens talking about how good they had it and how much abundance they had.
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>>76945
I'm from /pol/ he wasnt benevolent, neither was Stalin neither was FDR
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>>76954
>And somehow where the first to reach space because the were a shit hole.
Oh please, stop with the space age propaganda. We get it, Korolev is a genius. Good thing he didn't die in the gulag.

>And pretty much every kind of art, technology and science, from math to psychology, some soviet scientist are still named in papers today.
No, not at all. For instance, medical research in the USSR was abysmal. The only area where the USSR was good was areas which didn't require any resources, such as theoretical maths. But even then, you weren't shielded from Stalin's madness : plenty of scientists and mathematicians were rounded up and executed during the great purges.

>Explain how you go from killing everyone indiscriminatelly, like the propaganda sugests, to a super power.
They weren't a superpower. The average soviet lived a miserable life. The industrialization of the USSR was rendered possible thanks to the reintroduction of serfdom under the form of the kholkoze and of the gulag.

You're so fucking deluded, go fucking die.
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>>74986
>Benevolent Dictators
>OP starts with Antonio Salazar
I'm home.
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>>76986
There are reasons why the Comunist Party is the second political force in Russia today little m8. Pro tip: It's not because russians think it was bad.
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>>76930
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>>77012
>I'm from /pol/
Sure you are.
You're such a /pol/ack you know all about how the holocaust was not a blatant hoax. Absolutely redpilled.
;^)
>>
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>>76524

The massive amount of deaths didn't occur until the 80s, after Cuba had already gotten involved and by which point they couldn't really pull out (they couldn't afford to strain their relationship with Russia)

At least they did alright by the Angolan civil war.
>>
>>76954
>some soviet scientist are still named in papers today.
So are many scientists from 19th century Austro-Hungary. What does that prove? Nothing.

>super powers dont commit massacres
Are you high? All of them did. From Japan to the USA, to Nazi Germany to Great Brittain. Every one of them gassed and murdered people by the hundreds of thousands.
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>>77051
what the fuck is that supposed to be? Tell me what it means.
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>>77044
>Korolev is a genius. Good thing he didn't die in the gulag.

>Korolev was assigned to a "sharashka", a penitentiary for intellectuals and the educated. These were effectively slave-labor camps where scientists and engineers worked on projects assigned by the Communist party leadership.
He had to make some forced scientific work. So harsh...!

>go fucking die.
Take it easy.
>>
>>77047
>second
Key word here.
There's a reason why it's not first.
Pro tip: It's not because russians think it's the ideal way to run the country.

Of course, I expect you to mention some grand conspiracy keeping "duh comrade down".
>>
>>77087
American detected
>>77097
von braun or whatever was not forced!
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>>77051
>japan higher than all the rest
What? This graph has to be bullshit. Japan in 1929 had the combined industry of Sheffield.
>>
>>77074
>So are many scientists from 19th century Austro-Hungary. What does that prove?
That Austro-Hungary has a good historical record on science.

>super powers dont commit massacres
Never said anything like this.
>>
>>77054
Im a anti-nwo paleocon more against globalist than muh jews
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>>77122
>>77051
>Posting % of 1929 GDP instead of actual gdp
>>
>>77122
>American detected
Not American. It's a fucking excel graph with no indication of its meaning.

>>77097
>On 22 June 1938, during the Great Purge, Korolev was arrested by the NKVD after being denounced by Ivan Kleymenov, Georgy Langemak, and Valentin Glushko. He was accused of deliberately slowing the work of the research institute, and following torture in the Lubyanka prison to extract a confession, was tried and sentenced to ten years in a Gulag work camp.
>In the work camp, conditions were extremely rough – inadequate food, shelter, clothing, work assignments, and thousands of prisoners dying each month.[11] Towards the end of 1939 he was sent back to Moscow, but he had already sustained injuries and had lost most of his teeth due to the labor camp's brutal conditions.
>Other members of the RNII had also been arrested. Kleymenov and Langemak were executed,[15] leaving Korolev very fortunate to have even survived. The rocket program was set back for years and fell far behind the rapid progress taking place in Germany.

Sounds like such a lovely place.
>>
>>77122
>American detected
No, he's right. 1000% of the 1929 GDP per capita? How does that even fucking work.That graph is a shitty unlabeled mess.
For instance, where the fuck are the source and the tittle?
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thank u based socialism. soviet leaders werent really dictators tho
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>>77100
>There's a reason why it's not first.
Because Putin.
>It's not because russians think it's the ideal way to run the country.
In fact there are many that think it is and remember it with fondness that's why the communist party is a big party and not a small party.
>>
>>75539
Good list.
>>
>>74986
Do monarchs that were essentially dictators count?
>>
>>77140
>>77162
>>77187
>HURR IS NOT CORRECT ITS ALL SHIT AND FAKE
>but if it talks in favour of the US it's all right
>>
>>77192
Say what you will about Putin, he's right about the USSR.

If a Russian doesn't miss it, they don't have a heart, but if they want it back, they don't have a brain.
>>
>>77199
Yes.
>>
>>77162
>source: some western "historian"
>>
>>77221
I didn't say it was shit and fake, I asked you to explain it.

The fact that you're unable to hurts your credibility.

>>77245
Triggered. I'm out.

I hope you all die.
>>
>>77225
>Say what you will about Putin, he's right about the USSR.
That's not what we are discussing here (Stalin and his works is the subject matter) but right in that quote is implied that Russians do miss the Soviet Union.
>>
>>77130
the graph measures how much each country's gdp grew relative to its 1929 gdp, japan came up from a much lower base so grew much more proportionally
>>
>>77140
its to illustrate growth retard

>>76975
“[The Soviet government] did try to alleviate the famine. A 25 February 1933 Central Committee decree allotted seed loans of 320,000 tons to Ukraine and 240,000 tons to the northern Caucasus, Seed loans were also made to the Lower Volga and may have been made to other regions as well. Kul’chyts’kyy cites Ukrainian party archives showing that total aid to Ukraine by April 1933 actually exceeded 560,000 tons, including more than 80,000 tons of food. Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933. It appeas to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, and 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports.” Mark B. Tauger. “The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933.” Slavic Review 50, no. 1 (1991): 70-89. http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger, ‘The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933, SR 91.pdf.
>>
>>77221
Turkmenistan, Chad and the Congo are the best countries today if you use %GDP growth as yoru metric you moron.
>>
>>76524
I support the left and I agree with you. I also think the U.S. has been better as a hegemonic power than pretty much every other superpower in history.
>>
>>77275
>I asked you to explain it.
it explains about how the USSR was better than the US when it was suffering the depresion
>>
>>77192
>people liked communism
>people liked communism so much they'll vote for it
>only has 20% of popular vote in last elections
>>
>>77277
Which means they're stupid. Unless being nostalgic for repression, starvation, and isolation from most of the world is somehow a good thing.
>>
>>77314
>only has 20% of popular vote in last elections
20% is a lot in countries with more than two parties.
>>
>>74986
I'm Portuguese and I'm seriously triggered right now
>>
>>76930
But you said up to moron. Nice moving the goalposts there bro?
>>
>>77325
>Which means they're stupid.
If you say so. But I think that they are not raised on anti-communist propaganda and that's why they see their own history from another point of view.
>>
>>77288
"lies, damned lies and statistics" how applicable. So the graph basically doesnt reflect anything absolute.
>>
>>77374
Were your grandparents anarchist radicals or something?
>>
>>77344
>20% is a lot in countries with more than two parties.
Not when out of the 4 parties, about 10% voted for the others, 20% voted for the communists and 60% voted right-wing.
>>
>>77295
>its to illustrate growth retard
Thats nice, but we were asking about total GDP. China also still has a 7% growth today versus the USAs 2%. Doesnt mean China has a higher GDP by any means.
>>
>>77432
>Not when out of the 4 parties
Of course it is.
>60% voted right-wing.
That's cool. But that only means that they are the bigger party. It doesn't imply that the communist party is not big.
>>
>>77398
I'm not raised on anti-communist propaganda, either. I just see the fact that the USSR was miserable, China was miserable and has now morphed into a Fascist regime, Cuba was and is miserable, Angola was and is miserable, and Communist rebels have made most of South America miserable on and off for decades.

Fucking Theocracy has a better track record than Communism.
>>
>>77303

>I also think the U.S. has been better as a hegemonic power than pretty much every other superpower in history.

Well of course you'd say that because there have only been two superpowers in world history and the other one collapsed in 1991
>>
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>>77495
>>77495
>I'm not raised on anti-communist propaganda, either. I just see the fact that the USSR was miserable, China was miserable and has now morphed into a Fascist regime, Cuba was and is miserable, Angola was and is miserable, and Communist rebels have made most of South America miserable on and off for decades.
>>
>>77495
>I'm not raised on anti-communist propaganda
>proceeds to spout anti-communist propaganda
Of course you are not.
>>
>>77516
>anything I disagree with is b8
>>
>>77544
only cuba and china were misserable due to communism
>>
I assume you mean in the modern era in particular? Since 'authoritarianism' (iow, autocracy) was the default mode of social organization for millennia (and you could argue it still is, only disguised through back door methods).

The number of highly succesful countries when looking at the whole of history were on the majority explicitly autocratic.
>>
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>>75251
>>75547
Seriously though.

>>75839
That image pre-dates the central Asian famine Ukrainian nationalists pretend only affected them.
>>
>>77495
But there is no communist country. Just dictatorships riding on communist revolutions.
>>
>>75539
>Pinochet
Allende was always the right choice.
>>
>>77557
People literally starved to death as a policy position in the USSR and risked minefields to escape it.
>>
Lee Kuan Yew

Really the best example
>>
>>77579
And here comes the no true communism.
>>
>>77295
Liberals/Trots BTFO
>>
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>>77578
Make way Stalin is driving. Capitalist bitches.
>>
>>77425
nah, they lived in a rural village.

Its just that OP gets it right when he says Salazar stabilized the country and kept it out WW2, but is dead wrong about everything else.

>inb4 muh economy
He stabilized national debt
Thats it. He didnt develop the country whatsoever. His hissy fit about the colonies kept portugal isolated from the international stage and from outside trade and investment for decades.
People lived generally just as miserable before 1974 as they did just before Salazar rose to power. The social stratification was fierce and raising your lot in life was virtually impossible.
>>
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>>77600
and the US dindunuffin against its people
>>77616
>>
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A kind, loving, man who only wanted the best for Paraguay.
>>
>>77557
But they weren't.
>b-b-but the tv is always right
>>
>>77524
It's just obvious that the fact a development divide still exists decades after the end of it, people flooded out of it, and there were numerous documented atrocities committed within its borders, that the USSR was a shithole.

NATO countries aren't perfect, but the better side won the Cold War and people need to get over it.
>>
>>77635
>>77616
>>77579
>>77557
>>77516
Politics are off topic m8s.
>>
>>74986
Tiberius literally dindu nuffin.
>>
>>77616
>I still don't understand what communism actually is yet here I am shitposting away
Why
>>
>>77665
>NATO countries aren't perfect, but the better side won the Cold War and people need to get over it.
That's not what we were discussing.
>>
>>77586


Pinochet is practically the sole Chile is not a leftist shithole(but i repeat myself) like the rest of south-america, though recent trends indicate they are taking the slide to join the rest of their Latin brethren in the populist pig sty.
>>
>>77673
we're debating history
>>
>>77714
chile is a shithole
>>
>>77635
To its domestic population, no. Cops shoot at one university protest in America and people are out protesting in droves, cops shoot at twelve university protests in the USSR and people remember it must be Tuesday. They were also able to protest and disagree with the foreign policy decisions their government was making to support foreign dictators, also something that would get you shot or disappeared for in the USSR.

The shit people are afraid America is sinking into today isn't as bad as what the USSR was actually doing for decades.
>>
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>>77621
Toasting in a Stalin bread
>>
>>77724
>what is the best political system
>why this particular political system is shit
>not politics
>>
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>>77777
>>
>>77695
You're saying any argument against the USSR or Communism is propaganda and it was actually a great place with reason to be nostalgic for it. You're wrong. You're also denying it. That suggests you're in denial about the whole Cold War dynamic.
>>
>>77752
tbqh if we were living under soviet narrative, we'd talk about lincoln killing "innocent" rednecks
>>77777
woooow
>>
>>77714
>grounded nation to a halt
>murdered everyone to grind the nation to a halt
>just a cia shill

Literally no worth
>>
What's up with all the commies, lately? Did reddit go down or something?
>>
>>77635
>CIA

C'mon at least do some research and give the shah the savak you lazy fuck
>>
>>77774
History & Humanities

Politics is Humanities

Just because /vp/ exists doesn't mean any mention of Pokémon on /v/ is off topic.
>>
>>77795
>was actually a great
Never argued anythin like that. I just said that Stalin got a shithole and transformed it into a world power.

>with reason to be nostalgic for it
Well. People who lived under it are. They might have some reason.
>>
>>77829
>anybody who isn't a commie is a /pol/shit
Shouldn't you be doing your homework?
>>
>>77830
>Discussion of modern politics, current events, popular culture, or other non-historical topics should be posted elsewhere.
>>
>>77777
checked
>>
>>77807
>being this mad
>>
>>77752
All of this revisionism.
>>
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>>77777

>literally these quints couldn't be more pure
>>
>>77777
this nigga
kind of sad but oh well
>>
>>77862
>the USSR is modern
>>
>>77851
>anybody who isn't right wing is a redditKek
>>
>>77922
They are not discussing the USSR anymore but communism vs capitalism.
>>
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>>77777


FIVE TIME FIVE TIME
I M
V I
E T

T E
I V
M I
EMIT EVIF EMIT EVIF
>>
>>77774
>>77775
>>77776
>>77777
>>77778
>>77779

>all within 1 second

Gee, it sure is /b/ around here.
>>
>>77925
>anybody who implies communism is for edgy teens is inherently right-wing
>>77870
>>77829
>u mad? xD
Is this 2007?
>>
>>77880
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#After_World_War_II

Pick a citation. Any citation on that page shows there was mass repression and various atrocities committed regularly in the USSR that have no recorded analog in the US. McCarthyism was nothing compared to the KGB.
>>
>>77997
Calm down. You'll always have your hughbox.
>>>/pol/
>>
>>77925
>>77851
We're gonna have to learn to live together guys

Also OP has to remember to tell both hitler and Stalin fags to fuck off
>>
>>77777
highly impressive
>>
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Literally Dindu Nuffin
>>
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>>78006
>wikipedia
>>
>>78058
the cult of the supreme being is like /r/atheism legitimately invented a religion
>>
>>78031
>u mad xD
Again. No context whatsoever, someone disagreeing with you is an indicative that they're angry. I wouldn't imagine I'm wrong for assuming you're a redditor just visiting - just being open minded. Welcome to 4chan, my friend!
>>
>>78036
>and Stalin fags
Not at all comparable with Hitler tho. One destroyed his country and is hated by everyone exept edgy teenagers and the other made a world power that lasted decades and is still loved by a good number of his people.
>>
>>78083
>le leddit maymay XDDD
>>
>>78058
Triggered.
>>
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>>78036
Stalin is love, stalin is life
>>
>>78082

Nah m8. the Cult of the Supreme being was an endorsement of Deism. The Cult of Reason was literally r/atheism they actively attacked churches and held ceremonies worshiping the 'Goddess of Reason'. Hebertists were literal Fedoras senpai
>>
>>76765
He was like a benevolent father to germany although he probably hurt them much more in the ling run.
>>
>>78006


McCarthyism was nothing compared to the KGB because it was *about* the KGB.

Of course, he was correct, but he greatly underestimated just how deep the rabbit hole went. It wasn't just some specter of foreign influence, but his own fellow Americans consciously and independently aiding and abbeting the cause of, if not capital C Communism, they may as well have been through action (or inaction as the case may be), in the name of what they might call 'human decency', 'democracy', 'just plain goodness', and other highly ideological terms.
>>
>>78006
>https://en.wiki
>>>/out/
>>
>>78058
True desu sempai.
>>
>>78092
B-but the tv and my teachers all said he and meow were WORSE than Hitler D: they kill gorrilions
no one's ever died because of capitlaism!
>>
>>77242
This guy
>>
Commies; if your system is so good, why has it failed every time it was established?
>>
>>78281
>>78062
>pick any citation

Also, Wikipedia's more credible than some faggot on 4chan's baiting opinion.
>>
>>78405
in east europe it worked....and now they are all shitholes after the collapse of the USSR
>>
>>78420
>tfw wikipedia, never talks shit against the US
>>
>>78509
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
>>
>>78509
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

Not very complimentary.

Also, did you ever consider that the reason most sources are more negative about the USSR than the USA is because the USSR was a shithole?
>>
>>78599
>did you ever consider that the reason most sources are more negative about the USSR than the USA is because the USSR was a shithole?
because they won the cold war
>>78571
wow, americans always told me that they dindunuffin
>>
>>78636
History is kind to a lot of losers. Chinese, Iranian, Indian, and African states that were wiped out by force or just collapsed and therefore have no living members have plenty of people defending their systems of government. Even most Russians are reticent to defend the Soviet system.
>>
>>78738
>even most russians reticent to defend the Soviet system.
evidence
>>
>>78801
Opinion polls on Soviet nostalgia show people miss the state known as the USSR but prefer policies that are the opposite of what they got under it.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/06/10/2-russian-public-opinion-putin-praised-west-panned/

>69% Miss USSR
>63% Prefer freedom of speech

It's doublethink, but any overlap on those two stats would turn south on the USSR rightly quick if it actually came back. Also, youth mostly doesn't like or doesn't care for the USSR at all (44 + 29%)
>>
>>79018
>>69% Miss USSR
>>63% Prefer freedom of speech
>>
>>77714
As opposed to being a capitalist shithole?
>>
>>77638
>Wanted the best for Paraguay
>Double penetration by Argentina and Brazil
>>
>>78092
stalinfags belong with ayylium conspiracy theorists. Utterly shit tier - can't even manage funny shitposting like /pol/
>>
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Literally the best ruler Peru ever had.
>>
>>79239
I have one of his lawyers as a manger in my builder, filthy cunt.
>>
>>74986
Portugal is easily the worst country in Western Europe. It's somehow even worse than Spain. Salazar was terrible, if he had entered WW2 (on the right side) at least he would have benefited from Marshall aid.
>>75228
This is why Portugal is awful, fucking retards tried to fight a colonial war when a) they had no money b) Marxism was sweeping the world and c) colonialism was just plain uncool
>>
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>>76524
Get fucked Amerilard, how can you talk about Cuba supporting brutal African dictators when you supported the king of them all? Cuba fought for freedom in Africa.
>>
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>>79485
that is the reason why i love the cold war, both of them were the same disgusting assholes..but since the US won the cold war, we only know about Soviet's shit.
pic unrelated
>>
>>77752
What you did to your African American population was pretty much Nazi-tier.
>>
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>>79583
*indians, africans, and rednecks
>>
>>77638
As a Brazilian this makes me laugh
How does gettin keked for existence by the only monarchy in the tropics feel?
Also didnt this guy make women and children fight?
Should've just tried an economic agreement, taking Brazilian clay and killing one of our greatest general's friend in the process was a bit stupid i fear
>>
>>79583
>what you did

First of all, I'm Canadian. Second of all, the various periods of pre-Civil Rights blackness in America were, at worst, equivalent to what the USSR was doing to political dissidents.

Post-WWI American black people's treatment wasn't even in the same galaxy as the Nazis or the USSR.
>>
>>79239
>Peruvian dictator is an asian manlet
Kek
>>
>>75339
I hate commies but he was pretty based
>>
>>79940
Hitler shook Jesse Owens' hand
Roosevelt refused.
Modern damage controllers try to pretend it was the other way around when Owens himself said that Hitler was nice to him but Roosevelt was an asshole.
>>
>>80074
An athlete getting snubbed is not in any way comparable to systematic extermination.
>>
>>77635
>it's a butthurt socialist post
>>
>>80120
>chavez
trashed
>>
>>80143
sorry didn't mean to post that garbage, not even sure why I had it saved.
>>
>>80202
this just prove, that capitalism and communism are the same shit
>>
>>80238
Capitalism actually grew nations and killed a fraction of the people though
>>
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get on my level faggots
>>
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>>75539
>Pinochet

You want to add Somoza and Trujillo to that list?
>>
This guy. Many old people still refer to him as 'my general' in Colombia. Such a shame he's not going to be on the new bills because of political correctness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Rojas_Pinilla
>>
>>81399
And for a good reason.
Gosh, you uribistas are all the same.
>>
>>79239
Well, it's not like he has much if not any competition for being the best ruler Peru had to be honest.
Just being a competent ruler would make you a top tier ruler by Peruvian standards (though that might be true anywhere).
>>
deng literally saved commie china
>>
Getúlio Motherfucking Vargas.
>>
>>76469

>literally tried talking russia into starting a fucking nuclear holocaust if the us tried stopping the import of nukes to the island
> evenfucking russia thought he was being fucking insane, packed up their nukes and left

benevolent as fuck
>>
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>>80332
>capitalism killed a fraction of people
AHAHAHAHA
>>
>>80332
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOnIp69r6vg
>>
>>85058
>picture

Ok now that was good
>>
>>85043
Not a tenth as many as it should have.
>>
>>74986
>>84688
Why is it that Portuguese have the best dictators?
>>
>>75839
>there is a reason we're not listing hitler and mussolini
Because their reigns begun with empires and ended with ruins.
>>
I came into this thread exclusively to see how many "CIApitalism never killed anyone" people would say "Pinochet"
>>
>>85043
>>>/pol/
>>
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>>75711
A nation that was shit-tier in before 1930 was then industrialized
>won a world war
>controlled half of europe
>built an a-bomb
>started a space program and made Murifats think of the possibility of ICBM

inb4 my gorilions

>dictatorship of the proletariat for progress into communism torvarisch
>democracy never killed innocents
>>
>>75839
accidents happen
>>
>>75932
>Capitalism is objectively better than communism, hence the outcome of the cold war.

implying the military industrial complex and technology R&D is not funded by the STATE

STATE CAPITALISM 4 THE W1N
>>
>>76089
>Lol'd
muh space program
>>
>>76114
>"Miracle of Chile".
you mean when he sold a lot of natural resource rights to Western multinational companies?

>Miracle
>>
>>76221
>and those who complained got a one way ticket to the gulag

ok someone is a product of the american public schools.

not everyone was sent to the GULAGs
>>
>>76372
>>76357
was a great leader but the records are totally biased in his favor
>proscriptions
but truly intelligent
>>
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>>76720
>under Stalin. They lived like animals.
wow back to reddit
How's high school?
>>
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>>76720
>because it poured money into it for propaganda reasons.
again back to reddit

Wanted to build an ICBM. Tell the USkeks that they can shoot into their backyard.

Got the USkeks to think twice about their space capabilities (WHICH WAS NOTHING)

That's a pretty big check and balance
>>
>>75539
>Lee Kwan Yu
Too bad he let his son come into politics

>>75722
Better comparison is Malaysia senpai
>>
>>77140
>>77187
It's showing you relative to a time point

>Total GDP was far greater in USA
>USSR managed to maintain GDP better than US

It's showing you how well a system works

USA is not capitalist in the classical sense there's a lot of centralized planning in agriculture, science, technology, and military capabilities

USA would be a pretty good gommie country with all it's wealth

MARX WUZ RIGHT
>>
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>>74986
One of the few people I admire.
>>
>>75790
It was poor because it was like always trying to catch up to the USA. The Soviet Union pretty much industrialized in the 20th Century in a few decades. Something that the rest of the world powers had done hundreds of years before and in the span of centuries. I always find it disingenuous to compare the 2.

>USA in 1900 vs Russia in 1900 for average peasant
fast forward 50 years
>USA in 1950 vs USSR in 1950 for average citizen

The USSR advanced FAR FAR FAR more than the USA. Did it catch up completely? fuck no.
>>
>>75385
I was in his private zoo island.

He been gud boy dindu nuffin
>>
No love for based Ataturk?
>>
>>77495
What's wrong with Cuba? Also China isn't Fascist by any meaning of the word. USSR was alright and mostly everyone in the former soviet union would have been better off if it hadn't collapsed.
>>
>>85990
It was poor before it tried to catch up to the USA. It's a miracle it made it as far as it did.
>>
>>86177
That's my point. It was objectively an utter shithole when it was created, while the USA was already a world power. To compare the 2 is basically just regurgitating blatant propaganda.
>>
>>75228
They could've added Brazil to that if they hadn't screwed up/been screwed by Napoleon.
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