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Liu Bei

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Thread replies: 53
Thread images: 19

File: Liu_Bei_(ROTK10).png (97KB, 240x240px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Tell me /his/, why is China so biased when it comes to this guy? What gave Luo Guanzhong the idea that Liu Bei or Shu as a whole to even consider them "honorable" and "benevolent"?
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>>53614
Romanticisation. In actuality the historical Liu Bei was very much a Legalist and would have thus been considered as a man of bad character in Confucian evaluation.
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>>53614
>great great grandfather was a minor nobleman who happened to be descended from the Liu royal family

muh heritage muthafucka
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>>53614
Basically, Liu Bei is an individual who embodies secular rule and the power of law. This is something that Chinese rulers have always tried to emphasize in order to tamp down nationalism and economic rebellions. Unlike Cao Cao or other lesser warlords, Liu Bei did not have a reputation for capriciousness, personal cruelty, and a general disregard for the state in favor of gaining personal power. That's why he's been idealized.
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>>53614
The portrait painted in Romance of the Three Kingdoms is more a product of sentiments of the Late Yuan dynasty than it is an accurate portrait of Liu Bei as a historical figure. More importantly, Chinese historiography gives mortal authority to rulers viewed as legitimate, and in their biographies tend to paint them as moral exemplars.
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>>53614
because he was "The Master".
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>Cao Cao comes up with a plan
>evil, dishonorable trickster

>Liu Bei or Zhuge Liang come with same or similar plan
>master warrior-strategists who only want to bring peace to the empire
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>>53614
He's now commonly known as one of the biggest hypocrite in history, along with his ancestor Liu Bang, the founder of the Han dynasty.
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>>54479
Liu Bang isn't a hypocrite

Xiang Yu fag pls go
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>>53614
Scion of the Han. He was legitimately loyal to the Emperor, unlike warlords such as Lu Bu or Cao Cao who just wanted to exploit the situation. That alone makes him a hero.
>>53691
Legalism? You better have some good citations boi.
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Cao Cao is the best. Liu Bei is a pussy.
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>>54479
>>54500
We all know about the honorable Liu family.
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>>54699

talk shit get hit fggt
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>>54768
秦亡了? Whoa.
What show is this?
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He understood what was truly important.
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>>55294
The Last Supper

GOAT movie

Definitely not for Xiang Yu loving fuccbois tho
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What is it about Wei-loving posters that makes them so obnoxious and openly intolerant of Shu?
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>>55503
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who /guanyu/ here?
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>>55775
Why is Guan Yu of all people that gets to become God of War?

Was he perhaps an officer that was actually skilled at combat as well as tactic?
Still seems strange that he should stand out amongst other heroes.
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>>55870
I think it has to do with his depiction as an embodiment of righteousness, honor, ect.
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>>55870
Because he was a well known loyal and righteous man who, with every Dynasty, had his rank elevated till he reached "God of War."
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>>55775
I used to have him as my role model as a child.
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>>56048
*tips fedora*
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>>55661

>'but when he was winning, he lost in the end'
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What are some good sources to read about the Three Kingdoms period? I'd like to learn more about Chinese history.

Are there any good translations of the novel for that matter?
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>55326
Lady Sun saved his ass.
Zhang Fei screwed him over on atleast two occasions.
Wives>Brothers
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>>56508
~Moss Roberts for the novel
~The Chronicle of the Three Kingdoms can also be found in translation at many universities.
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>>56508
China History Forum is informative
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>>55661
Triggered as fuck desu senpai
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>>55661
My sides have ruptured
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>>54608
>Cao Cao is the best. Liu Bei is a pussy.
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>>57832
wow
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>>55775
>"Guan Yu...He who gets angry in the face of defeat."
>"What a foolish God!"
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>>55503
This movie better not disappoint me.
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Anyone here played Romance of the Three Kingdoms XII?
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>>57928
Did you watch Mitchiko and Hatchin last weekend?
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>>58187
Yeah. I liked that quote.
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>>55775
Why is he red?
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>>58260
it's how he's described in the 1st chapter of RotTK
"His face was the color of a dark jujube."
"a vivid face like an apple"
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>>58260
Because he's so fucking pissed.
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>>53614

Luo Guanzhong's propaganda piece

Historically when you dissect Liu Bei he was nothing more than a charismatic opportunist who attempted to gain power just like every warlord in that era. He likely fabricated his familial connection with the imperial family in order to establish his legitimacy and he had a dangerous habit of betraying every single one of his benefactors. He was an extremely ruthless man who was willing to do whatever it took to gain power even if it meant sacrificing the life of family members. Cao Cao was a saint compared to Liu Bei.
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>>58143
I played XI religiously. Lu Bu still gives me nightmares.

Also, times it's appropriate for a man to get choked up:
>Loss of a loved one
>Defeat in his greatest endeavour
>The seven step poem
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>>59379
>Cite Where Liu Bei's pedigree is disproven.
It is not only in the novel, ya know.
He really was a scion of Han.
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>mfw all of the Glorious Benevolence in this thread
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Lady Sun is best girl
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>>57832
He's got some pretty modern ideology for a historical chinese man.
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>>59631
>The three brothers reached Anxi, and soon the administration of the county was so reformed and the rule so wise that in a month there was no law-breaking.

He was truly the most benevolent of men.
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>>53614
He was related to the Imperial family (supposedly) and was therefore romanticised as the swan song of the Han dynasty. A last ditch attempt by the Liu dynasty to go out fighting, instead of sniveling on the ground like Liu Xie.

I personally think Luo wrote him like that to suck up to the newly established Ming Dynasty (Luo was born in 1330 and the Yuan fell in 1368). An upstanding Han Chinese gentleman well versed in Confucian ethics who fight against the usurpers (I guess it doesnt't count as usurpation if a Han chinese takes the throne from a non-Han). It was an allegory really. Cao Cao and Sun Quan are the Mongols and Jurchens, and Liu Bei is the Ming state.

But since Liu failed, he had to be written as a victim of circumstance. Therefore, a short lapse in judgement (Wu expedition) seals his doom. And he gets to foresee the doom of his state by acknowledging the retardation of his heir.
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>>61544
Pragmatism was something that was in short supply in China. Everything was so bound by tradition and convention that you could scarcely take a step without having to bow and scrape to someone.

If Imperial China had had a couple more Cao Cao's then they wouldn't have fallen behind the world so much.

If anything Liu Bei represents everything that is wrong with ancient China. The conventions, the rules, the fucking confucian ethics system. Liu Bei KNEW his son was an idiot but still let him rule because of the "deposing the older and confirming the younger is the path to disaster" crap. Liu Bei was not into meritocracy. He was old school where lineage and date of birth came before talent. Zhuge Liang was the same. Liu flat out offered him the throne should his son prove incapable. Had Zhuge been more like Sima Yi he would have taken it, and in doing could have purged the Shu Han court of corruption and maybe could even have won.

Cao Cao on the other hand was thinking of making his youngest son (a goddamn child prodigy) his heir simply because he was the best suited for it.
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Does the three kingdoms series worth watching ? Is it a good introduction to this period ?
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>>62614
It's a good introduction, but it has fictionalized elements (as it's based on Romance), so don't treat it as gospel.
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>>62614
I'm like 4 episodes in and I'm suprised by how much I'm liking it. I thought it would be the usual Bollywood-tier schlock but apart from the at times weird sound design and the crappy special effects it's really holding up. It's basically the Tudors with a better story.
Thread posts: 53
Thread images: 19


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