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Since this appears to be the new place to discuss philosophy,

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Since this appears to be the new place to discuss philosophy, I'd like to help anyone new to philosophy to remember to always start with the Greeks
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>>4604
Plato was a hack.
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>>4604
marx was goat
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What's the name of the man who lived in a turned over bathtub?
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>>4604
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>>4778
Diogenes. All of his works have been lost, unfortunately.
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>>4778

Poiseden.
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>>4604
I agree. Going somewhat "chronologically" helps you see how all these concepts developed, and it helps you understand them better. You also get to see how Western philosophical thinking evolved along the last 2000 or so years, and there is a somewhatclear continuity.
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>>4863
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who /teamaristo/ here
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Is this reading list legit? Should anything else be added?
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>>5110
This is very legit. Now read before you post on this board.
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>>4604
>philosophy
philosophy didnt start with greeks, stupid pig skin
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Marx literally ripped Plato, the fucking Republic is a more poisonous work than the Communist Manifesto
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>>5110
yes. and saved thanks

t.literature student
>>
Plato's texts are actually fun to read.

Socrates is kicking ass
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>>5197
Name a single philosopher that actually matters who lived before Thales
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>>4604
It's also important to remember that all their works have been pored over relentlessly for centuries and no new insights can be derived from them.
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>>5110
>No Jaeger's Paideia
c'mon son
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>>5579
However, you need to read them in order to understand all other philosophy
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>>5540
sadly arabs destroyed all that

beware that greeks civilization started after 1000 BC
while you have sumerians, babylonians, assyrians, phoenicians, egyptians, elamites, etc
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>>4863
he actually wrote shit down??
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>>5770
Well you can't start with them if we don't know about them so we're back to the Greeks as the best starting point
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Wow, fucking amateur hour ITT.
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>>5110
Get rid of Hamilton's book (maybe replacing it with a newer study), replace the Fagles translations with those by Lattimore or Fitzgerald, and it's adequate.

>>5625
Any Jaeger is too much Jaeger.

Voegelin's studies on the other hand...
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>>5928
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>>5770
What *philosophers*?

And what exactly are you saying the Arabs destroyed? Like, do you have names of texts or figures whose writings are gone that we could safely say were *philosophers* from Sumer, Babylon, Assyria, etc. etc.?
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>>6024
"Proverb" writings aren't the same in character as philosophy. And Durant's out of his league making historical pronouncements.
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>>6112
>And what exactly are you saying the Arabs destroyed?
when they invaded the iranians, assyrians, babylonians, etc
they destroyed all their libraries and books

just look at susa city
an iranian city found on 4200 BC

on fucking 4200 BC and arabs destroyed all that
do you know how much history were there?
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>>4604
/lit/ reporting in. Just wishing you a happy evening, fellow /lit/ bro.
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>>6292
*was

"There were things there" doesn't mean that there were philosophers in and around said places.
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>>6343
Make sure to remind people they should start with the Greeks!
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>>6358
>*was
thanks for the correction, i knew something was wrong
>>6358
>doesn't mean that there were philosophers in and around said places.
they problably had biography of philosophers
i mean the city was destroyed in 640 AD
you have like more than 3000 years of history
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>>6524
If there were any significant and famed philosophers present in the city it's likely they wouldn't have kept them a secret and other places would have known about them.

The fact that we have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of anything resembling philosophy in those places leads me to believe that the people there didn't concern themselves with philosophy.

I'm sure tons of records were destroyed, but I still believe that, if there was any philosophizing taking place, something that would have made them unique among the peoples around them from a religious and cultural perspective, we would know about it.
If there were people concerning themselves with philosophy and nobody bothered to mention it ever then I think said philosophy wasn't significant or noteworthy and there might as well have been none there.

Also even if those places were some hidden Mecca of philosophy, it wouldn't really matter.
Nobody in the entire history of philosophy as we know it builds on the ideas of those people (if they had any).

All philosophy after the Greeks builds on the Greeks.
That's why you start with them.
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>>6524
>they problably had biography of philosophers
What kind of standard is that? They *might've* had philosophers because they *definitely* had libraries that were destroyed? That's not evidence of anything beyond the brute fact that libraries that contained writings (the contents of which we largely don't know) were destroyed.

>>6292
>when they invaded the iranians, assyrians, babylonians, etcthey destroyed all their libraries and books
Which evades what I asked for, namely, a definite account of what in particular went missing as an example. For example, we can talk with ease about Aristotle's dialogues that didn't survive, because they, among other works of his that didn't survive, are referred to in ancient lists of his writings, and are very occasionally quoted by ancient commentators. We know that those are philosophical writings that haven't survived. All you're pointing to is "that had enough writings that there probably were", which isn't good enough. It also doesn't show anything to point to ancient "wisdom literature" of the proverbial sort, which is distinct in character from philosophy, which can be characterized as, if anything at all, inquiry that recognizes a difference between knowledge and the opinions that we pick up by living in society, which the proverbial writings don't show.
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>>6880
>>6992

>The fact that we have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of anything resembling philosophy in those places leads me to believe that the people there didn't concern themselves with philosophy.
people that got knowledge and had civilizations way before greeks didnt have philosophers then greeks came and had philosophers?


you white guys think europe is the best at everything
really pathetic
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>/lit/ was a good place to discuss philosophy because most people aren't going to /lit/ anyways
>/his/ opens up and becomes the forced philosophy board
>more and more /pol/tards and other shitheads rushing in to put their two cents in
>philosophy threads will be reduced to shit with U CAN'T NO NUFFIN or "philosophy is ded" stemtard shitposting.

That being said, Diogenes was pretty based.
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>>7112
>people that got knowledge and had civilizations way before greeks didnt have philosophers then greeks came and had philosophers?
To make it short, yes.

You fail to understand what philosophy is and how it works.

People who are able to think being some place does not qualify as philosophy.
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>>7112
There's a difference between somewhat complex ideas and philosophy.
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>>7179
Don't you have some Gam of Thrones to discuss my friend?

/lit/ should be renamed to "YA and genre fiction"
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>>5110
add Euripides and Aeschylus and you're set
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>>4604

Theory

Mythological Theory
or
Scientific Theory
or
Political Theory
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>>7357
What
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>>7250
>>>/tv/
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>>7201
>To make it short, yes.
No

are you fucking telling me that in 3000 years there wasnt any philosopher?
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Under 10k club
Plato, Aristotle and Socrates were hacks desu
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>>7413
This really depends on what you consider a philosopher
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>>1
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>>7381
You have to choose
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Start with the Greek gods to be more accurate desu senpai.
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>>5540
Pythagoras?
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>>6292
The Arabians also preserved and translated Cicero and some other Stoics, and were the reason we have access to things like the Corpus Hermeticum.
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>>7691
Born about half a century after Thales. He's Greek anyway so it wouldn't have mattered either way.
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But who /continuedwiththeromans/ here?

The progression from Epicurus to Epictetus to Empiricus is the best. All three of them are Greek but you know what I mean.
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>>7734
>were the reason we have access to things like the Corpus Hermeticum.
arabs were fucking shits who destroyed many people for their shit religion
fuck them
they didnt nothing more than cause pain and destruction
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>>5110
I started reading Hamilton but since he keeps citing the Iliad and odyssey I don't see why I can't just go straight to them.
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>>7112
>people that got knowledge and had civilizations way before greeks didnt have philosophers then greeks came and had philosophers?
Howsabout that? It's almost like noticing that "people that got knowledge and had civilizations way before early modern Europeans didnt have mathematical physicists then early modern Europeans came and had mathematical physicists."

>>7413
>are you fucking telling me that in 3000 years there wasnt any philosopher?
Well, we certainly don't have any evidence of it to make such positive claims. I asked you above, and you offered me a picture of Wikipedia that at best points to an Egyptian "wisdom lit" writer whose work isn't characteristic of philosophy, and worst suggests that you don't seem to know history very well if you think that the relatively late destruction of middle eastern libraries by the Arabs is evidence that those libraries contained writings that were over a thousand years old.
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>>4604
What about Copleston history of philosophy ?
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>>8101
Read the canon in order lmao. All those ancillary works are undergrads trying to justify their degrees. Read Iliad, Odyssey in a fun translation like Pope. Their value is recognizing the following 3000 years of references, not anything in particular in the text itself. Read Herodotus, Thucydides if you like history; Aeschylus, Sophocles, the third guy if you like literature; Plato, Aristotle if you like philosophy; and so on.

The introductions preceding whatever versions of those works you pick up will more than fill you in on the narrative. Remember that archaeologists are c*cks and you are more or less as qualified as bookwriting academics.

H a v e F u n W i t h I t .

TL/DR I have a problem with that image.
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>>7734
That sounds like something the Iranians would do but the Arabs would take credit for.
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>>5110
>no Artemidorus' Oneitocritica
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>>8958
Yes, very excellent set of volumes. Strongly recommended.
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>>7931
>arabs were fucking shits who destroyed many people for their shit religionfuck themthey didnt nothing more than cause pain and destruction
But you're pointing to the Assyrians and Babylonians as good examples? Do you know anything about how their empires conducted themselves?
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>>5893
Laertius reports him as having written several volumes, epistles, and plays, but Laertius was willing to jot down whatever almost indiscriminately, so who knows.
Thread posts: 64
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