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Is Mali the most underrated empire?

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Is Mali the most underrated empire?
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Is that a fucking sandcastle? lmao
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>>33695
Lol a mudcastle. I could build this over a few weekends with my friends.
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>>33794
>>33805
A mudcastle that has survived for over 200 years. If that isn't impressive then I don't what is.
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>>33854
the pyramids exist and they arent too far away
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It's a meme.
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>>33695
lol
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>>33695

Professional historian here.

African history in general is underrated and the Mali Empire was the seat of Islamic power for centuries with several academies whilst Europe was busy slaughtering each other over religious differences.

The fact that everyone on this board is going "lol sand/mud castle" without addressing the question critically or even doing a little background reading on their own proves that moot was entirely correct and that no one here can handle a history board.
>>
A lot of people, be they black or white, like to shit on Africa (intentionally or not) for having not real developmental progress until colonialism, but the state and society of the Malian empire proves them all wrong.

It was a mercantile state that traded slaves, gold, and salt into the Arab-Berber north and made a shitton of money from it, made all the more easier due to a complex river system that meant they could ship in stuff from the coast or inland to caravan trails, which only /they/ could really endure (a good number of Arab invasions into West Africa failed due to attrition) and as such made a lot of money. They used that money to fund learning, with Timbuktu becoming one of THE places for Islamic learning.

A lean towards slave raids and an empowered Morocco eventually broke their back though, and the rise of Islamism resulted in a lot of their landmarks being totaled. But there are accounts of the Sultan of Mali sending Egypt into inflation on his pilgrimage to Mecca because he threw so much wealth around.

I'd say, regardless of what happened, that was pretty successful.
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>>33794
Yep, that sandcastle was designed by a famed andalusian architect, so apparently it was 'in' down in Africa
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>>33695
Depends on the context. I'd say Mali is pretty overrated when it comes to African civilisations, since it's pretty much the only empire that's talked about.
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>>33854
I dunno.
Japan have castles that can survive Earthquakes. Does Mali have any sort of natural disasters?
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>>34116

It's hard to talk about Sub-Saharan Africa, though.
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>>33695
That looks like shit, like even bronze age europe produced more impressive structures.
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>>34125
Mali has rain. A simple rain can tear down the castle, considering its made of mud.
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>>34166
>>34175
>>34204

Can you shitposters fuck off back to /s4s/ or /pol/?
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>>33854
>maths

That structure dates from 1907.
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Either Mali or the Khmer
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>>33854
It is being annually restored. Did you honestly think a sandcastle would last for centuries?

>>34175
It may have looked better back then because right now it's the villagers that patch it up. It has probably lost some of the symmetry.

And it's not like they had anything else to build with.
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Top kek. That thing was literally built by the French in 1906. Pic related is what it looked like before.

The French felt so sorry for the Malians that they literally made up a civilisation and an architectural style for them.
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Africa is the most underrated continent in general. Little is talked about how European explorers ransacked castles, monuments, art, and destroyed them. We now have a huge dearth in African history which has been used to unfairly criticize African people.

Archeology and research need to be revived in the African continent because we are missing a lot of information. Perhaps not all of it has been destroyed. Ethiopia still claims to have the Ark of the Covenant, for example.
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>>34224
How am i shit posting? it looks like a pile of shit with dumb sticks hanging out.
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>>33854
I'm pretty sure the mosque has actually been destroyed plenty of times and that one is newer than that

Mali has a cool history though as crossroads of African trade and Muslim science

>you will never be so rich you devalue the valuta for decades just by going to Cairo
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>>34290

The point of /his/ is to discuss history and the humanities. That like of shit with dumb sticks hanging out has meaning. If you want to stand and gawk at shit, go back to fucking Tumblr or Reddit.
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>>34056
> professional historian
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>>34232
>>34255
>only 100 years
Pretty pathetic in the grand scale of things.
Even Benin built a much more impressive wall alone.
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>>34331

Professionally trained, in any event. From a top 10 program, no less.
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>>34255
Hahahahaha
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>>34136
>Ashanti
>Benin
>Kongo
>Luba
>Lunda
>Mutapa
>precolonial Rwanda
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>>34355
pretty good going, random anonymous person on the internet
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>>33695
That's not how you spell the zulu empire!
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Mali is to Africa what Tesla is to physics, vastly overrated but everyone seems to think it was actually underrated.

Ile-Ife is THE shit desu (picrel, a sculpture from 1300 AD).
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>>34372

It's hard to talk about a lot of pre-colonial Africa within the West. You know what I mean, dipshit.
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>>34372
You forgot Ethiopia.
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>>34372
>Any of those
>Empires


Only other Empire-style entity I can think of is the Zulu's and even they where probably more like a kingdom.
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No. Kingdom of Benin was GOAT
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>>34346
>>34371

>Dubois (who had seen the original mosque) revisited Djenné in 1910 and was shocked by the new building. He believed that the French colonial administration were responsible for the design and wrote that it looked like a cross between a hedgehog and a church organ. He thought that the cones made the building resemble a baroque temple dedicated to the god of suppositories.
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>>34251
Sorry but how does any thing from the Mali Empire compare to the temples of Angkor? Let's not be silly now.
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>you will never be part of the male harem of your warrior queen and get immolated after one night of hot sex

jdimsa
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>>34437
how do you even craft that thing.
is that metal or stone?
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>>34528
Bronze

More about Benin:

>The king's palace or court is a square, and is as large as the town of Haarlem and entirely surrounded by a special wall, like that which encircles the town. It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers, and comprises beautiful and long square galleries, about as large as the Exchange at Amsterdam, but one larger than another, resting on wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper, on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles..."

—Olfert Dapper, Nauwkeurige Beschrijvinge der Afrikaansche Gewesten, 1668

Magnificent palaces confirmed
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>>34437
they look adorable
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So modern historians treat Africans like children and then "we" are the racist ones
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>>34974
Who are "we"?
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>>35021

The /pol/ boogeyman you faggots are so hysterical about
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No its the most overrated

>the Malians became rich by being ontop of a gold mine
wow nice achievement
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>>33854
It didnt survive, it was rebuilt by the french only a few parts of the bottom walls were left when the french arrived.
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>>33695
Ethiopia was vastly superior. Mali a shit
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>>35039
So many of you /pol/tards were complaining because you can't say "nigger" here. Are you trying to tell me /pol/ isn't ridiculously racist?
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>Malifags getting triggered
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>>35058
That's kind of retarded, most major civilizations did pretty well because of topographical location or resources of their country
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>>35058
pretty much this
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>>35117

It is so what? Who cares?

On the other hand you faggots are trying to hype some mud castle made 100 years ago just because it was built like Africans. That's proposterous you are treating Africans like a cat who just learned how to use the toilet.
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>>35133
but the malians literally did nothing amazing. All they did was trade and built shitty structures that couldnt last for more than 100 years.

Atleast Benin built a really long wall.
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>>35122
What are you talking about?
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>>35191
This isn't /pol/, so don't expect us to say "hurrr durr africa didn't accomplish anything they are sub humans!!!!"

We are talking about African history because this is a history board with people who are interested in this stuff. Do you have a problem with that?
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>>35291

Sure np as long as we all agree that this structure is nothing remarkable by non African standards
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No, in fact, Mali is overrated by every Africanist.
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>>35369
>Everyone must like what I like and no one can say otherwise
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>>34494
Fucking Angkor Wat man, beautiful. Now they were an advanced civilization, some of the coolest ancient engineering feats regarding river control.
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>>34355
So you are a communist activist.
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>>35369
Which makes it even more unremarkable considering it's a French design...
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>>34494
It looks awesome, stunning.
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>>35398
Sorry but this board is for actual discussion and not shitposting. Deal with it.
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If anything, it's the most overrated. Indeed, even the Ashanti Empire, which was better in every way, emerged at a time when Europeans were already settling Newfoundland.

Oh, and don't get me started on "Great Zimbabwe", even a neolithic culture 5000 years ago was more impressive (Vinca culture)
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>>33695
I'd like to point out that they do actually maintain that thing on a regular basis.
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>>33695
That isn't even the original, this one was rebuilt by the French during the early 1900's
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>>35966
What was the original one like?
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>>34056
Someone is salty.
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>>35997

See >>34255
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>>36044
Are they? Bitter, maybe, but the only salt here is coming from you.
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>>34328
Yes it has meaning and in the context of the question of it being underrated the answer is 'no'.
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idk but malian music is underrated imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOpOaqgVGAQ
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>>36409
The only people who can't handle this board are /pol/ shitposters.
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>>36376
This is the most relaxing thing I've ever listened to
Any idea where I can pirate some of this?
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>>36376
Damn that's beautiful. We should have an ancient music general that would be quite pleasant.
How is that instrument even played?
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>>36485

plucked like a harp, id guess
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>>36376
Damn, this music is actually really fucking good.
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>>33794
>Le sandcastle lmao xDDD

The walls of the Great Mosque are made of sun-baked earth bricks (called ferey), and sand and earth based mortar, and are coated with a plaster which gives the building its smooth, sculpted look. The walls of the building are decorated with bundles of rodier palm (Borassus aethiopum) sticks, called toron, that project about 60 cm (2.0 ft) from the surface. The toron also serve as readymade scaffolding for the annual repairs. Ceramic half-pipes also extend from the roofline and direct rain water from the roof away from the walls.[15]

The mosque is built on a platform measuring about 75 m × 75 m (246 ft × 246 ft) that is raised by 3 metres (9.8 feet) above the level of the marketplace. The platform prevents damage to the mosque when the Bani River floods. It is accessed by six sets of stairs, each decorated with pinnacles. The main entrance is on the northern side of the building. The outer walls of the Great Mosque are not precisely orthogonal to one another so that the plan of the building has a noticeable trapezoidal outline.[16][17]

The prayer wall or qibla of the Great Mosque faces east towards Mecca and overlooks the city marketplace. The qibla is dominated by three large, box-like towers or minarets jutting out from the main wall. The central tower is around 16 meters in height.[18] The cone shaped spires or pinnacles at the top of each minaret are topped with ostrich eggs.[19] The eastern wall is about a meter (3 ft) in thickness and is strengthened on the exterior by eighteen pilaster like buttresses, each of which is topped by a pinnacle. The corners are formed by rectangular shaped buttresses decorated with toron and topped by pinnacles.[12]

[...]
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>>36839
The prayer hall, measuring about 26 by 50 meters (85 by 164 ft), occupies the eastern half of the mosque behind the qibla wall. The mud-covered, rodier-palm roof is supported by nine interior walls running north-south which are pierced by pointed arches that reach up almost to the roof.[20] This design creates a forest of ninety massive rectangular pillars that span the interior prayer hall and severely reduce the field of view. The small, irregularly-positioned windows on the north and south walls allow little natural light to reach the interior of the hall. The floor is composed of sandy earth.[21]

Bundles of rodier palm sticks embedded in the walls of the Great Mosque are used for decoration and serve as scaffolding for annual repairs.
In the prayer hall, each of the three towers in the qibla wall has a niche or mihrab. The iman conducts the prayers from the mihrab in the larger central tower. A narrow opening in the ceiling of the central mihrab connects with a small room situated above roof level in the tower. In earlier times, a crier would repeat the words of the imam to people in the town. To the right of the mihrab in the central tower is a second niche, the pulpit or minbar, from which the iman preaches his Friday sermon.[12]

The towers in the qibla wall do not contain stairs linking the prayer hall with the roof. Instead there are two square towers housing stairs leading to the roof. One set of stairs is located at the south western corner of the prayer hall while the other set, situated near the main entrance on the northern side, is only accessible from the exterior of the mosque. Small vents in the roof are topped with removable inverted kiln-fired bowls, which when removed allow hot air to rise out of the building and so ventilate the interior.

[...]
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>>36483
idk man sorry, i dld the album 'mande variations' years ago
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>>36846
The interior courtyard to the west of the prayer hall, measuring 20 m × 46 m (66 ft × 151 ft), is surrounded on three sides by galleries. The walls of the galleries facing the courtyard are punctuated by arched openings. The western gallery is reserved for use by women.[22]

Though it benefits from regular maintenance, since the facade's construction in 1907 only small changes have been made to the design. Rather than a single central niche, the mirhab tower originally had a pair of large recesses echoing the form of the entrance arches in the north wall. The mosque also had many fewer toron with none on the corner buttresses.[23][24] It is evident from published photographs that two additional rows of toron were added to the walls in the early 1990s.
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>>34328
That building is an embarassment. They have to smear new mud on it once a year.
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>>36376
the good the bad and the ugly homage at the start is fucking sick, actually fits with rest too
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>>33794
This is what happens when you let a bunch of ignorant kids discuss history.
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>>33854
I really like the festival they hold every year to rebuild the mosque. The women fabricate the adobe and the men lay it on the structure.
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>>36913
What's wrong with using mud for buildings? It's suitable for the climate and has been used in that region for 1000s of years. Why would they suddenly need to use conventional bricks?
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>>33794
Africaboos are the worst, its always a repeat of the Emperor's New Clothes with these people, fawning over tribalism, stone and mud as if it was steel, marble, and glass, then someone points it out. But unlike the tale they feel no shame, just outrage that someone would oppose their worldview.
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Ashantis are the best in SSA imo

Their culture never died, you can hear it in roots reggae
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>>37049
>fawning over tribalism, stone and mud as if it was steel, marble, and glass

What objectively makes steel,marble and glass more superior than 'tribalism,stone and mud'. Civilization isn't measured by some arbitrary ladder of innovation and progress, it's not all about big buildings with shiny materials.
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>>36839
>sun-baked earth bricks
Sorry meant mud-hut.

>>37171
>What objectively makes steel,marble and glass more superior
The process involved in making them implies a significantly more complex and thus interesting society.
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>>36483
This might be it https://thepiratebay.la/torrent/3573394/Ali_Farka_Toure__Nass_Marrakech__Oumou_Sangare__Toumani_DiabatA_
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>>33695
Isn't this Muslim architecture?
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>>37725
It is, Mali is a SJW-tier meme. Go look at Ile-Ife or Igbo-Ukwu if you want serious African civilisations.
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>>33854
They have to rebuild it every year. I think it's just an excuse to get kids off the street.

Also it's a Mosque, mud castles don't work very well.
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lol
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African history is very underrated and ignored. There were many kingdoms in pre colonial Sub-saharan Africa, but most historians are not interested and most of the world thinks they were just shitty tribes forever.

This guy is a historian who tries to recreate African armours. They had some strip iron armour similar to Roman segementata.
>>
>>38946
>>37725
Mali is seriously overrated but how does being muslim make it not African, they were African muslims.
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>Mali built a bunch of mudhuts and sandcastles
>Romans built structures that after the fall of the empire people thought were built by gods because they couldn't fathom how a human being could create something like that
Top kek
>>
>mud castles
No
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I think the reason the african empires get ignored is because they had little effect after their demise to say, the roman empire.
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>>39221
That never happened, people didn't suddenly become retarded because the Romans left.
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I'm going to post African swords here because they're neat.

>>39080
My only problem with African historians is that they tend to have an enormous chip on their shoulder and flip out and overcompensate, crediting all manner of bullshit to African societies and African peoples instead of being grounded in reality and working within established historical events. It's like they're all radicals.

Hannibal was black, Pharaohs were black, Jesus was black, everyone was fucking black.
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Musa Keita I (or Mansa Moussa)(c. 1280 – c. 1337) was the tenth Mansa, which translates as "King of Kings" or "Emperor", of the wealthy West African Mali Empire

Having held a modern-day net worth of $400 billion, some have speculated that Musa is the wealthiest individual in human history.
>The richest man in history
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>>39269
Adobe is awesome for arid environments and your'e a fool for shunning it.
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>>39695
African historians don't really do that. My professor for my Charlemagne module was from Ghana and he said Afrocentrism basically doesn't exist in Africa itself.

It's more African-Americans trying to compensate for knowing nothing about their own history and liberal white people getting duped into it
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>>39126
For me personally, [spoiler]I have nothing against Islam. I think it's a beautiful religion and culture that has been corrupted over the years by extremists and warlords. I hate what they did to the Library of Alexandria, but their advances in math, science and architecture are nothing to laugh at.[/spoiler]

But the reason I'm only interested in non-Abrahamic African cultures is because I'm studying all history for a fictional universe that I'm developing.
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>>39375
Well if the Roman empire had been entirely destroyed and occupied by an alien power in the space of ~100 years I dare say it would have much less of an impact today.

In fact, if you look at, say, Egypt there is much more arab influence than Roman in terms of language, culture and religion because the area was occupied by muslim arabs.
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>>40090
>I hate what they did to the Library of Alexandria
1. The library of Alexandria wasn't destroyed in some singular cataclysmic event, it experienced a gradual period of decay over hundreds of years
2. By the time it was gone for good, there was basically nothing in it. Everything important had been copied or moved to other libraries
3. It was rebuilt, you can go to Egypt and visit it
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>>39846
Yeah well, all the "African historians" I've met have been afrocentrists.

Of course by "African historians" I mean "black guys that read some shit on the internet"
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>>33695
Ancient Ethiopia is talked about less, so no.
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