General Franco

>>306113
ruin it obviously
whoever thinks otherwise is an idiot

>>306117

>Implying Spain would be better off as a Soviet puppet state

Franco stopped the mass murders of middle class people, the clergy, and political conservatives.

His economic policies right after the war were foolish, but his implementation of a more open economy resulted in an economic boom for Spain

>>306141
>a Soviet puppet state
the republic was a democracy, never a communist state. Political conservatives ruled the country for two years (CEDA), until there were new elections. The people of Spain voted for the Republic and elected its leaders until the military intervened and stripped off the people's freedoms. Please go back to /pol/.

>>306117
>Cannot capitalize letters
>Calls others idiots

>>306160
Nice argument

>>306159

>the republic was a democracy, never a communist state

There was a good chance of them being the Soviet's bitch after the war ended.

The Republicans gave all of Spain' gold to the soviets and relied heavily on Soviet military aid. They were in debt to the Soviets, and they probably wouldn't have had the balls to tell Stalin to fuck off, like Franco did to Hitler.

>>306113

You already made your thread.
You got your reply.
Now, go and rest.

>>306164
the communists took power of some zones of the republic in the late 1938. If the military haven't started the war, that would have never happen. Your argument is invalid simply because the military rebeled against the republic before there were those contacts with the soviet union.
The republicans gave (not all) Spanish gold to the soviets, but did not rely heavily on Soviet military aid, that didn't help them but by sending very few planes and very few military advisors. Franco's military did however rely heavily in Hitler's and Mussolinni's aid.
>like Franco did to Hitler
Franco wanted to join the war, and he didn't do it inmediately because Hitler wouldn't let him have the zones of Africa he wanted. However, and despite Hitler treating him with contempt, Franco did agreed with Hitler to join the war and attack Britain. He didn't, probably because he started to see how the war was going against Germany.

>>306113
Meh, he was the lesser of other evils.

>>306163
>Doesn't even add the period to his sentence.

yo brvu diz aint twtter fm

>>306223
You didn't add them here >>306160

>>306233
>Thinking only one person can point out your orthographic disgraces.

>>306242
>thinking I give a fuck

>>306189
this kills the /pol/

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>>306141
you tell me

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>>306113
oops meant for op

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Franco saved Spain from communism and left a better country that he found.

>>308576
not due to him, but to America's desire for anti-communist allies. it and western europe invested heavily in spain because franco destroyed worker's rights. the upside is that paying slave wages allows rich people to accumulate capital and develop industry, but its undeniable that the suffering was enormous for most people and probably could have been done peacefully through the maintenance of a republic, especially considering how much the civil war devastated the economy

>>308606
Actually, most industry in Francoist Spain was national. This whole narrative of yours is bullshit and typical communist propaganda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instituto_Nacional_de_Industria

>>308616
>typical communist propaganda
so everytime something doesn't fit into your triumphant franco narrative its "communist propaganda." what horseshit. communism isn't even a force in politics you fucking retard. you also know who had an absolute monopoly on the "narrative" during franco's regime? surprise, surprise, Franco!

all the sources on that page are sketchy. anyway it does say that private companies associated with the INI. and it doesn't detract from my argument that foreign investment fueled the spanish miracle.

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>>308659
>communism isn't even a force in politics you fucking retard

We have Franco to thank for that too.

>>306113
Didn't you see Pan's Labyrinth brh?

>>308667
That movie actually made me a fascist.

When they killed the general in the end, and denied his memory and traditions to his son, that was the moment I realized that I didn't belong in the left, I wasn't barbarous and degenerate like them.

>>308694
:^)

>>308663
sure senpai, cause overthrowing a legitimate republic that wanted to push through agrarian reform is defending communism.

>>308868
against communism*

>>308868
>agrarian reform

Is that the new name for expropriation of private property and anti-clerical massacres?

>>306189
>>306463

Except for the part where all of this is bullshit manipulation of figures.

The Soviets had been funding and cooperating with foreign Communist and Socialist parties for decades. Sure, they weren't sending them weapons until hostilities broke out, but they were getting a shit ton of money and training from Soviet agents.

The Soviets also sent hundreds of planes, tanks, and advisors to the Republicans. Most of these were crewed by Soviet troops until the very last stages of the war when Stalin realized the Republicans were fucked. That isn't even getting into all the foreign Communist parties and organizations that sent soldiers and cash to the International Brigades.

Once the war actually got underway, the Soviets funnelled huge amounts of influence behind the Communists, to the point that a lot of Republican commanders were complaining that the Stalinists were often too busy killing off other Republican political enemies than fighting the Nationalists. The hatred was mutual, but the anarchist and liberal Republicans also realized that the embargo placed on them meant that without Soviet support they'd be fucked even faster.

The Italian and German contribution was also largely negligible in terms of hands-on military action. The Condor Legion was only a fraction of the Nationalists' air force, and the Italian force was infamous for avoiding combat and even then it didn't perform well. There were far, FAR more Moroccans fighting and contributing on the Nationalist side than there were Krauts or Wogs.

Franco never seriously considered Hitler, and your argument is equally ridiculous. Are you seriously trying to say that Franco didn't want to join the war in goddamn 1940-1, when Nazi domination of Europe was basically complete and the Allied presence was limited to just Britain, because he saw how the war was going? If anything, that should have been the time he wanted to join the most!

>>308947
>expropriation of private property
Yes. I agree that appropriates cause tons of social tension. But I wouldn't call land reform "communist" nor would elevate private property to the level of the sacred like you do. These landowners did not "earn" their land by any stretch of the imagination. They were aristocrats granted the land from an entirely different political and economic system that was monarchism/fedualism. To work these lands they exploited southern farm hands. The redistribution of land would have stopped this exploitation. And the landowners would have been compensated by the state (or at least in an ideal scenario they should be). This wouldn't have destroyed the economic system at all. It was the large spanish landlords, the "latafundistas" (equivalent to the roman latifundia which were huge slave plantations), who were holding back the economy. Land redistribution would have actually benefitted the rising industry in Barcelona because a new class of small landholders would have led to an increased demand for industrial goods.

>anti-clerical massacres
as far as i know this was during the civil war. show me otherwise

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>>308974
>Franco never seriously considered Hitler
uhh

>>309113

> sympathy for a cause = fighting for it

Beyond the glaring lack of any sourcing for this, I seriously have to question the authenticity of someone claiming Spain's general staff was suspicious of Axis victory in Autumn of 1940, after Hitler had just steamrolled over all of continental Europe, were yet to be fighting the Soviet Union, and were giving the British a hard show over their home islands.

On a personal level, Hitler and Franco despised one another, to the point that Hitler just outright started refusing to meet with Franco after a certain point. Franco didn't like Communists or Liberals, but he was also incredibly suspicious of Hitler, to the point that he refused to close Gibraltar and was enthusiastic about getting all of the most radical Falange guys into the Division Azul so they could fuck off out of Spain and die elsewhere rather than start trouble at home.

>>308576
Load of bullshit comparing only two single points in time, but then I haven't seen an "infographic" posted on /his/ that isn't dishonest. I don't know if the people that make these are have such a poor opinion of anybody they are trying to sway that they think people will see their cherrypicked, simplistic infographic and go "good point", or if they are just by retards for the consumption of other retards.

>>309178
Its from Paul Preston's Politics of Revenge: Fascism and Military in 20th Century Spain

Admittedly I just started this chapter and just posted the first paragraph from it. Skimming through, it seems to be all about the negotiations between germany and spain over joining the war. Sadly there doesn't seem to be anything confirming his discussions with his generals. But I did spot a paragraph where it he says that Franco thought that the war would be too protracted even then given the state of Spain's economy. But then the 1941 Nazi victories in Eastern Europe convinced Franco again that victory was imminent. But the Americans and Brits put pressure on him, and most of his generals and part of his officer corp (the part not infiltrated by falangists I'm guessing) believed in American and British victory, especially when the Soviet invasion stalled in late 1941.

>>309378
also the Battle for Britain and the dropping of Sea Lion happened in late 1940 right?