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Let's discuss: Louis XIV, great king or overrated king?

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Let's discuss: Louis XIV, great king or overrated king?
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>>289526
I thought his extravagant spending was part of the reason the French Revolution was started?
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>>289539
No, it was the July Revolution of 1848.
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Greatest king.

Militarily, he made France the most feared power in Europe, bringing Spain, England and the Netherlands to their knees.

This was helped by hiring amazing military talent - Condé, Vauban, Turenne, Tallard, Louvois, etc.. Nigga revolutionized siege tactics and created the first national uniform.

Culturally, his rule allowed Molière, Racine, Corneille, La Fontaine, Descartes and Pascal to flourish.

Economically, he hired Colbert, who was considered one of the brightest economists of his time.

Fashion-wise, nigga's an icon.
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>>289539
> IV
roman numerals are not commutative
>>
>yfw the Dutch ate their own leader because of Louis XIV's invasion
>yfw I'm not even kidding

>During 1672, which the Dutch refer to as the "year of disaster" or rampjaar, France and England attacked the Republic during the Franco-Dutch War and the Orangists took power by force and deposed [Dutch leader Johann] de Witt.
>Without any protection against the assembled mob, the [De Witt] brothers were dragged out of the prison and killed next to a nearby scaffold. Immediately after their deaths, the bodies were mutilated and fingers, toes, and other parts of their bodies were cut off.[17] Other parts of their bodies were allegedly eaten by the mob (others allege they were taken elsewhere and cooked before being eaten).[18]
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>>289539

No, that was Louis XVI, Louis XIV's great grandson.

Just remember

>Louis XIII (13th) = the 3 musketeers
>Louis XIV (14th) = glory
>Louis XV (15th) = decline
>Louis XVI (16th) = fall
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>>289526
His rule saw the golden age of french hegemony over Europe and other parts of the world.

Now, if that was Louis own accomplishment, or he was just collecting the profits planted by Richelieu and Mazarino, this I don't know.
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>>289615

What about the other 12 looies? wat were they like?
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>>289663
I know that the first was Charlemagne's son.
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>>289706

So louis I = can't quite keep it to-

Why did the Carolingian empire fall so fast. It look really impressive on Paper, who was opposing it?
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>>289718
Germans. Who else
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>>289725

I thought they were Germans?
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>>289718

It was destroyed from within. Power squabbles between brothers.

Charlemagne's son, Louis I, had the terrific idea of dividing his empire amongst his three sons (one got Germany, one got France, and one got Italy).

Eventually, Louis had a fourth son, and wanted him to get clay too. War broke out, bla bla bla.... Clay division bequeathed clay division bequeathed..
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>>289572
>Rickman as Louis XIV
Boy I know what I'm watching this evening.
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>>289745

Oh, and that 'fourth son' I'm talking about can be seen cowering before a Viking invasion in the TV show Vikings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2fm7Unf9r8
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>>289661
Richelieu vs. Talleyrand
who wins?
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>>289718
Nah, Louis I still ruled over all the empire and he removed kebab. He divided his empire among his sons because apparently all the Franks did this, Charlemagne didn't because he only had a son, but Charlemagne's father (Pepin) did divide his empire between two sons (but the one who wasn't Charlemagne died soon).

Both Louis and Pepin divided the empire in a way that the sons had to collaborate for it to be a suitable kingdom. But actually what the sons did was to war each other.
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>>289757
>impliying there's someone in world history who can win Richelieu
>>
>>289758

>he one who wasn't Charlemagne died soon
>died soon

Well, that's one way to put it...

>Carloman died on 4 December 771, at the Villa of Samoussy; the death, sudden and convenient though it was, was set down to natural causes (a severe nosebleed is sometimes claimed as being at fault).[9][10] At the time of his death, he and his brother Charlemagne were close to outright war
>the death, sudden and convenient
>sudden and convenient
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>>289775
Yeah well I'm well aware of the theory that he was assasinated. I just didn't want to enter the field of conjecture because I really only have general knowledge of the era.
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>>289746

Ayyy, it's from the new movie A Little Chaos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSjt4naxlE
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>no one mentions the entrenchment absolute monarchy and the trend towards big big centralised government that was the work of the sun king.

Cmon lads.
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>>289663

Well, early medieval history is not my strong point. But, from Louis IX onwards...

>Louis IX (9th) = raging Catholic, went on Crusades and created anti-blasphemy laws
>Louis X (10th) = more 'liberal' (readmitted Jews, limited royal power, freed the serfs...)
>Louis XI (11th) = a Machiavellian king who used diplomacy to avoid war; nicknamed the "Spider King" for his ability to string 'webs'
>Louis XII (12th) = bogged down in a failed invasion of Italy
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>>289824

Centralization is not always a bad thing.
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>>289757

Talleyrand was one slimey mutha fucka. Absolutely no ethics whatsoever.
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>>289663
Louis IX was the ultimate Christfag.
He started the 7th and the 8th crusades and has been canonised (Saint Louis) 30 years after his death.
Extremely high prestige, he probably was the greatest Capetian king before Louis XIV.

Louis XI rebuilt and modernised France after the HYW.
Terrible reputation, historians weren't nice to him.

The other reigns arent nearly as significants.
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>>289913

>Terrible reputation, historians weren't nice to him.

Well, Louis XI was a bit of a dick. And look at that fucking nose.
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>>289663
>Louis I the pious (or the debonaire depending on who you ask) : son of Charlemagne, got caught into civil war and fought for a piace of the empire after his dad died
>Louis II : son of Charles the bald, himself grandson of Charlemagne. Stuttered and everybody thought he was a retard for that, even his own mother who tried to claim his throne. but the whole aristocracy did it, so it's another day at the office. Died because of his bad health right when he decided to man up and stop the Count of Auvergne and Toulouse was up to shenanigans
>Louis III : ruled along with his brother and best buddy, Carloman II. Both were busy dealing with vikings.
>Louis IV d'Outremer : got a hard start since his throne was potentially sat on by a local noble far more popular and legitimate than him. Still managed to keep his place and make said noble his number one partner in crime. also made a centralized currency in the kingdom.
>Louis V the lazy : didn't do much and had a very short reign. Was so lazy he never got laid and died without a heir.The son of his father's partner, Hugues Capet took the throne and that's how the Capetian dynasty took over the Carolingians.
>Louis VI the fat : fought the brits and worked towards a greater unity in the fragmented kingdom of the francs by beating the shit out of annoying local nobles and putting in place the framework used to creat town authority instead of leaving all the power to the nobility. Was so fat he had a hole dug on his table so he could sit and eat without having his seat pulled too far back. also made the oriflamme the national symbol
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>>289663
(cont)
>Louis VII the young : married Alaenor of Aquitaine and spent decades dropping spaghetti all over the place, divorcing with her (somehow backed by the pope in that decision), marrying with someone else, putting fuel to the fire between him and the duchy of Anjou, accidentally making the Plantagenêt go to britbongistan and thus creating what will soon be the historical ennemy and rival of France. Also went to the second crusade
>Louis VIII the lion : got shit done agains the albiegois heretics, but only reigned over the francs for three years.
>Louis IX or Saint-Louis : rose to the throne while still a kid and still managed to put the barons in their rightful places : on their knees, sucking his royal dick. Won the hundred-years war agains the brits. Reformed the justice system to make it more fair and less "I am a noble therefore I am right".
>Louis X : his father Philippe IV le bel spent his life trying to make his kingdom bigger and the local nobles more submissive. Once he died, his son had to deal with all the explosive shit his dad left for him and survived by making concessions. Died after two years on the throne.
>Louis XI the careful : known by his ennemies for being a massive, scheming and plotting dick. Incorporated Bretagne, Anjou, Maine and Bourgogne. Tried to centralized France and give the state more power, thus reducing the influence of the church, especially by telling the inquisition to kindly fuck off and go in Spain where no one expects them.
>Louis XII : the previous Louis, his grandfather, was a control freak. He was a lot more trusting and was the first king to really use the états généraux (assembly of both nobility, clergy and third estate) and consult them in order to deal with the problems of the state. Conducted several reforms, wrote laws, created taxes and was the first and foremost example of a moderate monarch.
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>>290004
>Louis IX or Saint-Louis [...] Won the hundred-years war agains the brits.
>Louis IX (25 April 1214 – 25 August 1270), commonly known as Saint Louis
>The Hundred Years' War was a series of conflicts waged from 1337 to 1453
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>>290004
>Louis XIII the fair : did some stuff, but the cardinal of Richelieu did more and better. Still kicked some spanish ass and kept his kingdom strong after the decades of infighting and religious wars.
>Louis XIV : rose to the throne while a kid, kicked every butt that tried to take his fancy chair once he was old enough and spend the following decared trying to make france not only a centralized state, but also get all the local nobility to submit, thus creating the modern idea of a national court instead of several local court. Did this by making the seat of his power, Versailles, the center of both cultural, political and administrative life meaning every local noble should be there most of the time in order not to fall into irrelevancy, making it easier for him to control the nobility.
>Louis XV : kicked ass in Europe, standing toe to toe with the brits and austrians, and making Corsica and Lorraine part of France. Sucked badly outside of that and singlehandedly lost the french colonies in the Americas.
>Louis XVI : could have done some cool stuff (like an egal tax all over the kingdom, abolition of torture, equal rights despite religion, religious tolerance) had he kept his head on his shoulders
>Louis XVII : only die-hard monarchists consider him a king since he was a kid when his father died and "ruled" for one year between his dad's execution and his own. He spent that year imprisonned.
>Louis XVIII : last of the Louis, restaured royalty after Napoleon was first exiled. Then came back once our favourite manlet was exiled again. Pretty much a relic of a gone era who tried to make France what it was before the revolution without realizing it wouldn't work.
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>>290088
There are two wars refered to as the hundred years war though. The first one was the conflict between the Capetians and Plantagenet (1159 - 1259), the second was between the same Plantagenets and the Valois, as you said between 1337 and 1453
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>>289526
Overrated, and for some reason the guy who beat his ass is extremely underrated. The Duke of Malborough here beat the shit out of the French while wrestling diplomatically with one of the probably least co-operative coalitions in history. People wank over the Duke of Wellington; the Duke of Wellington wanked over the Duke of Marlborough.
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>>290104
I had no idea sorry (I'm not brit or french).
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>>290123
>To military historians David Chandler and Richard Holmes, Marlborough is the greatest British commander in history, an assessment that is shared by others, including the Duke of Wellington who could "conceive nothing greater than Marlborough at the head of an English army".
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>>289589
wat
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>>289836
>>289913
>>290004
Sounds like Louis XI was based as fuck.
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>>289615
Weren't Louis XIV already Louis XV great-grandfather ?
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>>289805
>that disclaimer
>"there is an outdoor ball room in Versailles
>that much is true"
kek
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>>290170
19th century historians were pretty mean to him, mostly because at that time they tried to find some national heroes and prettier figures, so they glorified Saint Louis who did not hesitate to use force and made Louis XI seem like a bad person because he preferred to talk his way out of stinky situations and use underhanded tricks to reach his goals. Many things considered, Louis XI achieved more and did more good, especially by protecting the peasents and the "small people" from the local unfair power and arbitrary justice that still existed and making the royal authority stronger.
Pretty much the definition of machiavelican : did some pretty ugly stuff but always to reach a certain endgoal and make the result better than the initial situation.
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>>289718
>Why did the Carolingian empire fall so fast. It look really impressive on Paper, who was opposing it?

Dumbass succession laws. The Franks believed in every son getting a fair share of the land of the father, regardless of age or legitimacy. Charlemagne lucked out by only having one son survive when he died, which was Louis. Louis had three sons, and all three got a fair share of his territory when he died. That's pretty much the end of the Carolingian Empire, but it keeps going for another 50-100 years in smaller and smaller forms as Louis the Pious' sons and descendants fight each other over territory.
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>>289913
>>289836
>Louis XII
was it him or his dad that is usually portrayed as a bit 'otherworldly' *cough autistic cough*
>>
He was very clever politically, he built Versailles not only because it would give him prestige, but because he wanted all important noble families near to him so he could control them.
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The thing about LXIV is that he was very belligerent bastard, yet he kept his own territory almost completely safe. This is why he's remembered as such a terrific monarch. His patronage of the arts and sciences is also a point in his favor.
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>>290439
>being monarch of an important European power
>not being autistic

pick 1 m8
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>>290164

Dutch Republic politics mang.

From the start mainstream Protestant society was divided into two factions: Prinsgezinden and Staatsgezinden.

Prinsgezinden wanted to continue the rebellion that Orange started and were fiercely loyal to the stadtholders. They wanted a more unitary government led by a powerful state church and stadtholder.

The Staatsgezinden, however, liked the decentralised commonwealth of urban elites that had been established snd wanted to keep it. They were generally supportive of the Hollandic and Zeelandic patricians and raadspensionaris.

Staatsgezinden wanted to expand via colonialism and trade, hence why England emerged as primary rival. They therefore wanted to support the navy. The Prinsgezinden believed in expansion into the south by strengthening the army.

Johan de Witt was a staatsgezinde raadspensionaris who led a succesful diplomacy against England, but had left the country powerless to defend against French invasion. Hence why he got lynched.
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Anybody watch Versailles yet? It was just released last week. The full season is available (in its original English version) on t411.me.

It covers Louis XIV's reign from 1667 to 1670. It just got renewed for a second season.
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>>289757
Disraeli outjews both of them.

Between the two though Talleyrand by far.
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>>291018

I assume you're Dutch? Any movies about the early Dutch Republic period?

I've just heard of The Admiral (about De Ruyter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTt0QxBPouI
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>>291057

Yes I am.

There aren't a lot unfortunately. I can really only think of comic books like Gilles de Geus. It's sad because you could easily make a great drama centred around the lives of Willem and Maurits.

I saw Michiel de Ruyter a while ago, it has some great visuals but I felt a lot of the dialogue was a bit wooden.
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>>291022
Yeah I watched it, it was nice.
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>>289824
Why the fuck is this board full of left-wing anarcho-communists?
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>>289770
always hate this picture. the artist makes richelieu look so heroic its just out of place. i like the rest of the picture though
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>>289844
When you have a big state like France with lots of different people it's more harm than good when somebody unfit for so much power (Louis XV, XVI) is put on the throne. Having power spread out among parties keeps everything in check so that if one part falls apart.

Hell, the big problem with the revolution was that it didn't do enough to give power back to all the regions that had lost it.

>>290170
He was really mean to his dad, the man who won back France.
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