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daily reminder that the incoming Pan-Orthodox Council will be

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daily reminder that the incoming Pan-Orthodox Council will be the Second Vatican Council of the Orthodox world

lmao, just read the agenda..

say goodbye to your retrogade and bigoted religion.. prepare to embrace "modernity"

it's 2015 for God's sake! :^)
>>
>inlying there is a united Orthodox church and not ~20 de-facto independent patriarchates
Like, who gives a shit about Constantinople patriarch? I wish Stalin succeeded in late 40s in establishing Moscow Patriarch as the leader of Orthodox church.
>>
>>288536
how does councils work.
>>
>>288594
Badly. Considering Russian Church is, like, 60% of world's Orthodox population, and very conservative at the same time, it will either block any second-vaticanish proposals, or demonstrative ignore it.
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>>288536
>>inlying there is a united Orthodox church
Well, yes, there is, and claiming otherwise is heretical and schismatic.
>>
>>288613
The problem with Russian church is that the golden shares it has are all in Ukraine. United Ukrainian Church, even subordinate to Constantinople, instantly breaks Russian monopoly.

In fact as far as I know in terms of orthodox parishes Russia actually holds third place after Ukraine and Romania.
>>
>>288756
> United Ukrainian Church, even subordinate to Constantinople, instantly breaks Russian monopoly.
Yeah, it would be interesting if Constantinople recognizes Kiev Patriarch.
>>
>>288772
It's more fucked up than that. In Orthodoxy power is counted not by the number of people (because Kiev Patriarchy already has the majority) but by the number of parishes, meaning something has to be done with Moscow Patriarchy in Ukraine itself, and they're notoriously defensive and stuck-up, especially these days.

Well no wonder, knowing that they've got everything to lose.
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>>288782
>something has to be done with Moscow Patriarchy in Ukraine
What can they do? Ukraine is a secular state, they can't just declare KP the only true patriarch and confiscate parishes from MP. They can't even declare MP some kind of hostile foreigner agent, it' quite neutral and didn't support annexation of Crimea and stuff.
>>
>>288791
And this is exactly the problem. The only feasible way I can imagine it happening is election of a pro-Ukrainian Moscow Patriarchy head; but that's completely unrealistic, mass exodus of the locals (more realistic but probably not feasible on the necessary scale) or good ole bribery.
>>
Nah no chance for that.
The synods don't have that much power to change the dogma to this extent, and the average orthodox is too socially conservative to accept shit like that without schisms.
It will be mostly a pissing contest between the Patriarch of Moscow vs the Patriarch of Constantinople.
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>>288509
>Pan-Orthodox Council
1. The Orthodox Diaspora.

2. The way in which autocephaly is granted.

3. The way in which autonomy is granted.

4. The diptychs (the order of honour of the Local Churches).

5. The Church calendar.

6. Canonical impediments to marriage.

7. Fasting.

8. Relationships with the heterodox denominations.

9. The ecumenical movement.

10. The contribution of Orthodox to affirming peace, brotherhood and freedom.


Apparently, there is already unanimous agreement with papers submitted for 8/10 themes, though I haven't been able to find which ones. I don't think we have to fear a modernizing council like with the Catholics. Much of this seems like straight business and brass tacks. The worst I would expect are some flowery statements about ecumenicism, but only in the context of Christians--none of the universalist stuff from V2.
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>>289260
>none of the universalist stuff from V2
Did you even read V2?
>>
Meh, Bulgarian Orthadox Church still supports pagan believes like walking on red hot coals, or dressing as monsters and dancing around the church, or wearing snow-and-blood bands on your hand during March, so I doubt they will care about that.

Not that I would anyways *tips fedora*
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>>289272
>what is
RAYS OF TRUTH
A
Y
S

O
F

T
R
U
T
H
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>>289319
>there are good parts/morals in pagan religions
>all good comes from good
I know you hate reasoning but still
>>
>>289329
It would have been fine if Catholics had said pagan religions prefigured Christ. The revelation of God took place over thousands of years rather than in a single instance, and pagans (think: the Greeks), did have regulatory insights--in sequence, NOT in sufficiency--but V2 made it sound as if *current* paganisms are still somehow valid on some level even in light of Christ.

If they were making a historical statement, they should have been more clear, but then again that's the whole problem with V2: it's lack of clarity, which is why even Catholics have been debating its meaning for the last half century.
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>>289329
>all good comes from good
shit, replace the second one with God.
>>289339
>but V2 made it sound as if *current* paganisms are still somehow valid on some level even in light of Christ.
On "some level" it still is considering that the God-given parts aren't erased.
The church still teaches Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
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>>288536
>Like, who gives a shit about Constantinople patriarch
>"Who cares about the Ecumenical Patriarch?"
You sure you're Orthodox?
>>
>>288536
fucking heretic slavshit.

You couldnt even read and write till the Patriarch of Constantinople decided to give you the gift of the fucking alphabet.
>>
>>289294
can you give some backround about the snow and blood bands in march?

in greece you wear them to avoid sunburn from sunny days in March..
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>>289369
If he had been given proper support from stronger powers like Russia, he wouldn't be trying to become to Orthodox Pope now in a desperate bit to stay relevant, and keep from complete dissolving of the Patriarchate of Constantinople under Turkish Islamic pressure.

I don't agree with some of what I've read about his statement and conduct, but I can't blame him for it considering the circumstances. Hopefully Constantinople can be back in western hands sometime in this century, and we can put this contesting to rest.
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>>288509
>Bigoted

This is bait.
>>
>>289365
>>289369
Chill out, guy, I'm a fedora tipper myself. I just happen to know Constantinople patriarch is a figurehead who has no real power. It's not like he's Orthodox Pope or something. At the same time Russian Church isn't going to share it's wealth and influence. So, as I've said, it would be better if Stalin moved Ecumenical Patriarchate in Moscow, as he intended to do.
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>>289392
alright brother,

do you have any comments on the corruption allegations towards the Moscow patriarch?
>>
>>289404
maybe a ceremonial position would be better for the constantinople patriarch, as a head of the church, or pope if you will. But having the real decisions being made by patriarchates that actually matter.

but that wouldnt happen in a million years unles a chism takes place.
>>
>>289421
I think the holdover KGB influences in the Russian Church are well attested. I try to separate that from theology, and I haven't read accusations of Moscow messing with that--quite the opposite actually. It's been a relatively successful rebirth over the last two decades.

Hopefully his successor will be someone...cleaner.

The view I take on gold watches, and all of that is that men come and go, but its the damage or strengthening of the Church that lasts. One doesn't always have much to do with the other.
>>
>>289392
>Hopefully Constantinople can be back in western hands sometime in this century, and we can put this contesting to rest.

you are delusional, this is not medieval era anymore. you cannot retake a vital city with 20 million population without some massive war.

and after that war nothing would matter anyways.
>>
>>289459
You can if the people of the city wish it.
>>
>>289459
You can, but there are no Christians left in Constantinople.
>>
>>289465
>>289481
wish what? how the fuck you think you can conquer a city with 20 million kebabs? just nuke them? genocide them?

taking constantinople back is as delusional as taking new york back for the Queen.
>>
>>289488
If the cosmopolitan, semi-western people of Istanbul because too secularized to exist within an increasingly theistic Turkey, new geopolitical possibilities will arise. We're talking over the next 100 years, not tomorrow.
>>
>>289488
Nothing is impossible
>>
>>289503

I understand your desire to LARP but at least LARP within the limits of reality. Istanbul is a very important city not just for its geography or history but also for its economy and trade.

Russia cannot invade Istanbul without risking a literal WW3 with Nato. You best bet would be to have Turkey get into a closer realtionship witH Russia, maybe leaving Nato and allying herself with Iran-Russia-China against West.
>>
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>>289488
If Constantinople still had Orthodox Greek majority it could be possible to return it to Greece one way or another. But there is no point now, Istanbul alone has 20mlns Turks, two times population of whole Greece.
>>
>>289508
in early 20st yes it was
today ? no see >>289517

also
>highest % is 31.00
>>
>>289517
I didn't say Russia should take it. I think western Turkey would be more likely to be broken away from the east in the event of a political/military crisis. It's not about an Orthodox country taking control of Istanbul, but for the local politics to change enough to allow Orthodox to reenter the society, and we proceed from there--sort of the same strategy Muslims are using in western Europe.
>>
>>289532
you are playing very strange mind games there friend, never understood the christian obsession about the city either. an orthodox istanbul is as unlikely as an european caliphate, only isis tier muslims think its a possibility.
>>
>>289547
I'm not demanding an Orthodox Istanbul, but I would like to see the Orthodox community return to the city. That will be possible if Turkey has a crisis due to flying too close to the sun with ISIS, and it causes a clash with secularists. Istanbul could be the seat of a MUSLIM civil war, and who knows what would emerge after that.
>>
>>289547
>is as unlikely as an european caliphate

European ethnic birthrates beg to differ.
>>
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>>289390
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martenitsa

The ritual is older than 1500 years, and parts of modern Greece used to be held by the Bulgarian Kingdom for long periods of time.
Could be a left over from that.
>>
>>289635
>>
>>289635
>Butthurt Mehmet
>>
>>289635
No one cares about your instant bull.
>>
>>289635
I prefer Kostantiniyye.
>>
No, it won't. Vatican II didn't come out of nowhere, it was built on the Catholic Church's increasing modernism since the Renaissance. Since the Orthodox Church hasn't been modernizing for 500 years, that's not something to worry about.
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>>288536

Didn't the Russian patriarch eclipse the others of the Eastern Orthodox communion a long time ago?
>>
>>289968
No, the Russian Patriarch is fifth in rank.
>>
>>289600
There is a similar tradition in the Republic of Macedonia, as well as in Northern Greece, Albania, Romania and Moldova. The tradition is related to the ancient pagan history of the Balkan Peninsula and to all agricultural cults of nature. Some specific features of the ritual, especially tying the twisted white and red woolen threads, are a result of centuries-old tradition and suggest Thracian (paleo-Balkan) Hellenic or even Roman origins.

nice try
>>
Which fetish is better? Tsundere Orthodox qt grill or tsundere qt Orthoboo?
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>>290194
>this tradition also exists in other parts of the world that used to be conquered by bulgaria

Yes?
>>
>>288509
>prepare to embrace "modernity"
they already embrace remarriage and condoms, it's just that they try to conceal it under Byzantine rubbish
>>
>>290194
not even him but
>parts that used to be held by the Bulgarian Kingdom for long periods of time.

The original nomadic bulgars were tengriists.
>People observe traditions like hanging rags on trees;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengrism

It's unbelievable that this is an adaption of ancient bulgar practice before their conversion to Christianity.
>>
>>290216
you leaving.
>>
I don't know shit about Orthodoxy.

Can someone outline the basic differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy?

Or is that question too convoluted?
>>
>>292315
It's basically Roman Catholic system but instead of a unified church, there's dozens of smaller patriarchates. They even had their own reformation in 1666. A lot of people died.
>>
>>292336
So the only reason the churches split are minor discrepencies?

Seems like a waste of time to me.

I will say though, Orthodox clergyman have cool outfits.
>>
>>292336
What about their theological differences?
>>
>The city has been called Istanbul by it's inhabitants generations before Osman was even born
>the closest thing to an official name for it in the Ottoman Empire was Konstaniyye
>The secular republic changes it to what everyone there called it anyways
>this is a problem somehow
I don't get it
>>
>>292315
see
>>280347
>>
Reminder that the last time a Russian Orthodox priest married two fags in the US his bishop deconsecrated the parish and bulldozed it to the ground and laicized the priest. I really don't think we're going to see any modernist changes in the Orthodox Church.
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>>292355
>>292516

Orthodox have married priests, bearded clergy, infant communion, ancient liturgy, no organs, no filioque in the Nicene creed, papal primacy instead of papal supremacy, no immaculate conception doctrine, no transubstantation doctrine, just to name a few differences.
>>
>>292516
literally none
all aesthetic
>>
>>293425
actually it was a lutheran pastor performing an orthodox marriage
so I kinda get why they razed the church afterwards
>>
>>292271
>It's unbelievable

You mean "its likely", I imagine.
>>
>>292336
Tell me more about this reformation
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>>294458
Reformation is a misnomer in this case. What happened is by 1650s Russian church suddenly realized their holy books, which were badly translated in the first place, were full of errors because of manual coping though centuries, so the patriarch decided to made new translation from Greek originals and disregard old books altogether. At the same time some minor changes were made to practices to make it more like Greek ones, like making cross sign with three fingers instead of two and stuff. No doctrinal changes were made at all.
The reform was supported by the tsar, yet many felt it was too much and held to old practices. So the government used force to enforce conformity, with several cases of mass execution. Like, literally, people were ready to be burnt because of how many fingers you should use to make cross sign. In the end government did leave these communities alone, many of them moving into Siberia and such, keeping the old practices and rejecting Patriarchs. There are still many old believers, totaling up to 2 millions around the world.

This is nothing like reformation really, more like Old Catholics reaction against church reforms.
Thread posts: 68
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