Vietnam war

Because America enjoys involving itself into things it should stay out of.

>>281952
/thread

>>281943
Because all those bombs and agent orange was dropped by the American air-force y'know?

>>281952
OP here, Im Viet, In my country, it's reasonable for the state propaganda to portray the war as Vietnam vs America to justify the invasion of the Northern communist regime ( all kinds of media here are controlled by the communist government). Books, songs, novels ... that depict the war as a civil war are totally banned and forbidden here.

But I was totally surprised to know that the western media and people also have the same thinking. Considering that the media in the west is not controlled by any political party.

>>281943

It was a civil war the US was involved in and the conflict is universally recognized as such. I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>281943
Me love you long time. Me sucky sucky. No boom boom for soul brotha.

>>281943
because of 13 million dead Vietnamese

>inb4 some American claim they went there to help France while actually they refused to help them and only got involved a year after the frogs lost and left

>>281979
I just went back from a trip to Cyprus and from the conversation I got with several tourist guys, I saw them thinking that it was America invaded Vietnam and Vietnam fought back.

>>281995
The US did help France though. It just wasn't through direct military action. It was US Economic Aid that allowed France to try and shove its dick back into its former colonies after WWII.

>>281974
>Considering that the media in the west is not controlled by any political party
Had a hearty laff

Because Vietnam left an indelible mark on American culture

[spoiler] despite the reason for the mass deployment of troops being completely fabricated[/spoiler]

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>>281974
>Considering that the media in the west is not controlled by any political party.

HA

GOOD ONE M8

>>281974
Like the democratic government, us media tends to buy into mob rule/appeal to whoever watches the adds, and that's the left(isolationists) here, especially during the 60s/70s.

But it fluctuates occasionally.

>>281961
All the terrorist attacks on south Vietnamese were orchestrated by the N.V.A, and all the napalm/agent orange bombings on vietnam were done by the united states.

I feel bad for Vietnam at the end of the day.

>>282065
I always like to put on my tin foil hat and assume vietnam was trying to get a north/south vietnam thing because that actually helped both economies a ton in the long run.

Then they got unlucky.

>>282075
n/s korea*

>>281995
>us funds 90% of the war
>no help at all

>>281995
I've always liked that the causes the U.S. and china and the vietnamese vassals where fighting for were ideals. Sure geopolitics and >muh clay
played into the wars, but the fact that millions of people would die for something they believe in is somewhat romantic.

>>281943
America the things you will say to dodge the fact that you lost the war never ceases to amaze me
>"Wasn't a real war, congress never declared war, just a police operation"
>"We wuz winning and shit, hippies stabbed us in the back"
>"We didn't really lose to sharpened bamboo stick wielding gooks it was really undercover Russian troops we were fighting"
>"We did nothing wrong, our allies the ARVN are the ones who fucked up" (this one forgets to mention that ARVN were US-trained)
And now
>"We were never in the war, it was a civil war, we just sat on the sidelines giving advice and the odd bomb."
Because of all these pathetic excuses you will never learn from Vietnam which is why you still fuck up insurgencies to this day.

Communism is a mistake

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>>282104
>50,000 U.S. soldier deaths
>over 1 million Vietnamese soldiers cdeaths

>"fuck up modern insurgencies"

>battle of magadishu
>18 U.S. deaths
>500+ militia deaths

>invasion of iraq
>5,000 us soldier deaths
>35,000 iraq soldier deaths
>gdp output in iraq is over 15 times as much as it was under sadam.

The mental gymnastics libkeks pull to make it look like the United States ever loses at anything is astounding.

>>282122
Yeah, the parts of Iraq that aren't Daesh
>liberals
>lying to make it seem like america never loses

>>282104
Im OP and Im Viet. And I made the thread to ask why so many Americans and Western people think that Vietnam war was about Vietnam vs America

>>282157
I would say it's partially ignorance/lack of time and partially what they want to believe. The 70's was a hippy era of smoking pot and being pseudo humanitarian, so vietnam movies, such as full metal jacket, apocalypse now and platoon had generally anti war messages.

This is pretty debatable though, as even the people who wrote the first book ever, the epic of gilgamesh, knew how bland linear conflicts were in stories.

Anywho that's just the general perception. Vietnam is covered in roughly two weeks of class and people who pay close attention generally know it was a civil war.

>>282172
And by anti war messages, I mean they made the U.S. out as the bad guys quite often. The message of platoon is that the garrisons fought each other more than the enemy.

The United States uses a party system, so when media hammers on an event, they aren't slamming the country as a whole, they are slamming whoever was in power, which is often the political enemy of artists and directors.

>>282157
I have two great uncles who served in Vietnam. I have no ill will against your country and I doubt that they do either (Well one is dead of throat cancer now but nevermind). Time heals a lot of wounds and the US and Vietnam have done a lot of growing as nations since then, especially as the threat of communist takeover of Asia is basically dead. Plus we know you guys will back us up against the Chinese if it comes to that.

Vietnam was a mistake from the start to finish for both sides, especially the French. Fuck the French.

>>282191
No such thing as mistakes. Humans always play their best hand, and without the memory of such barbaric countries would still be attacking eachother out of fear.

I'd like to mention that war before ww2 was nothing like the scale of ww2 and the cold war battles. 150 thousand vs 150 thousand was a generic open battle, which is a lot for a single field battle, but stuff like the invasion of normandy pitched 1.3 million allies vs 480k axis over a few weeks.

In addition, war in fields does significantly less economic damage than modern conventional warfare, which does massive damage to economies.

>>281974

Americans did all the heavy lifting in terms of fighting the North while their attempts at Vietnamization were all terrible failures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Offensive

>>282122
>le tactical victory
Who cares how few men you lost, you lost the war. In Mogadishu you were BTFO, had to withdraw completely failed in your objective to capture Aidid. It was caused by your own stupidity and arrogance sending in only 160 rangers against 6,000 militamen. It's great that they held them off but you still had to pull out. Vitetnam, even though it's not 1 million 50,000 is still pretty fucking steep

What the left thinks happened:

>Evil capitalist America invades peaceful socialist Vietnam because they're evil and capitalist
>kills little children and poison the entire country
>a true grassroots domestic pacifist movement emerges
>in the end, heroic Vietnamese people defeat American fascists and all is dandy

What actually happened:

>American governments see the rise of communism in China, communists invading Korea etc
>they fear the domino effect and entire Asia becoming communist if they don't stop it
>South Vietnam is fighting against commie insurgency from North Vietnam, America rushes to help
>Americans doctor the Tonkin Gulf incident to have a justification to bomb the North
>the North gets royally butt raped by aerial bombardment and loses every battle
>finally they sign the peace treaty
>meanwhile a Soviet - sponsored dissent grows in the US, protesting against the war
>North violates peace and attacks the South again
>America refuses to re-engage
>South Vietnam falls

That's literally it. Not even one of those HURR MERICA STRONK guys but this is exactly what happened.

It WAS french v. Vietnam. The Vietnamese always wanted the French population out of their country. It was literally just like Columbus with guns, coffee, and heroine.

>>282153
This is what happens when the /pol/ack finds any new subversive infographic. They automatically assume the SJW and the Jews are the establishment, and anything subversive must be right-wing and anti-liberal. This is because most of them were only children during the Bush years and earlier years of the internet, and they only reached adulthood and started using the internet during Obama's presidency.

>>282265
French rulers are nicer than Communist rulers though, Communists wanted to kich Frenchs out just so they could rule Vietnmerse people with their shitty doctrine

>>282157
Because it is, the fact you a Vietnamese does not justify your viewpoint and I want to ask you a question: You a Vietnamese but where were you born? America or Vietnam?

>>283083
Vietnamese here, Not that guy tho, in my opn most Northern Vietnamese would think that VNW is a war to "liberate South VN from evil muricans", like what Communists always taught them. While in southerners pov, it was a failed attempt to stop the invasion of Communism. To me, it was the clashed between two ideologies, Communism - Capitalism, both parties were bad and committed many inhuman atrocities, but the more evil side - which is Communism, won.

>>282265
The Vietnam War started a year after France left
Try again

>>282122
>gdp output in iraq is over 15 times as much as it was under sadam
Of course, that has absolutely nothing to do with the sanctions against Saddam's Iraq

>>281943
It was a proxy war with America, clear and simple. The South got independence from French. A powerful media mogul then orchestrated fake elections so he could win, his opponent is exiled and demonized by his media. This is with the support and planning of the US. It was a very repressive regime that tried to Christianize the 90% major South population and fuck it over. The burning monk protest is what happened. The gov's own military staged a coup (with US help after such events). The war was simply a proxy war between Vietnam and US.

>>282244
>What actually happened
See above. The South's government was a puppet stage placed by the US.