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ITT: Favorite historical figures and why they interest you.

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ITT: Favorite historical figures and why they interest you.

Gen. Rommel

He was admired by Allied generals but Axis generals hated him because of his nontraditional tactics. I think he is one of the last true strategic masterminds and honorable military figures. Plus it's always interesting how people react when they find out not all "Nazis" were bloodthirsty jew-haters
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>>24753
>Rommel
Babby's first historical interest
>>
>>24796
>you like a famous person not somebody referenced only once by an English monk
>>
Most overrated Nazi general ever. I was pretty taken in by his reputation myself, until I bothered to do more reading and realized he's really not that impressive of a general.
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>Be sheep herder
>Herd sheep
>Be sheep herder
>Herd sheep
>Be sheep herder
>Herd sheep
>Be sheep herder
>Herd sheep
>Be sheep herder
>Destroy multiple empires you've never even heard of, radically altering the history for every man alive or born since
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Post the real men, anon
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Benjamin Franklin. He was quite the rockstar of his time.

>The rapid progress true science now makes occasions my regretting sometimes that I was born so soon. It is impossible to imagine the Height to which may be carried, in a thousand years, the Power of Man over Matter...Agriculture may diminish its Labour and double its Produce; all Diseases may, by sure means, be prevented or cured, not even excepting that of Old Age, and our Lives lengthened at pleasure even beyond the antediluvian Standard. O that moral Science were in as fair a way of Improvement, that Men would cease to be Wolves to one another, and that human Beings would at length learn what they now improperly call Humanity.

He was smart and witty, an inventor, a politician, owned a newspaper and almanac print- he did everything.

I particularly like when he went to France as an ambassador to ask for their help. He "accidentally" only had a coon-skin cap to wear when he went in front of the French parliament. Then, once they saw this and shrugged him off as some dumb rural person, he began to speak in perfect French, quoting famous French poems and literature. He amazed them.
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>>24861
Jesus this, so much.
He only has a good reputation because he fought in North Africa and not Russia, giving him a relatively non-genocidal reputation and not having a long string of long, bloody defeats from the later stages to marr his reputation.
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>>24871
>>24753
Well if we're looking at Germans in WWII, my favorite would be Rudel, the Stuka pilot.

2,000 targets destroyed, most decorated German, and he gave input to the design of the A-10 Warthog.
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>>24870
How many girls do you think Genghis fucked?
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>>24956
Minimum would probably be one or two per day.
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>>24861
>>24937
You're making it sound as if he wasn't at least noteworthy. I'm not too familiar with him but punching through the maginot line, tricking NAs with smoke clouds and finally dying in a coup against Hitler is pretty impressive.
>>
This guy ruled a completely incoherent and dysfunctional country for almost all his life. He worked every day, doing government duties and meeting with subjects. He refused to use the telephone and denied the Austro-Hungarian military armoured cars after one frightened his horse at a display. His son and heir shot himself and his wife, who he was devoted to but who didn't like him, was assassinated by anarchist. And then the death of his second heir started World War One. He signed the order to invade Serbia in 1914 in order to protect his dynasty's honour, reasoning it was better to go out principled if not with glory. He died two years into the war and his empire collapsed two years later. Even now, after fascism and communism and liberalism, you can find pictures of him all over Central Europe, where once the Habsburg Monarchy stood.
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>>24896
>Benjamin Franklin.
Agreed, although i add on to him Thomas Jefferson
>He was smart and witty, an inventor, a politician, owned a newspaper and almanac print- he did everything.
I have huge respect for a man who can master a lot and benefit him and those around him. Its also why I find jefferson in high regard as well, a Renaissance man. Although he couldn't handle banter and speeches directly, his written language skills and ideas and theories concerning agriculture is awe inspiring.

I hope to one day save enough to go DC, penn, virginia, and maryland looking at the historical sites of where these great men lived.

>I particularly like when he went to France as an ambassador to ask for their help. He "accidentally" only had a coon-skin cap to wear when he went in front of the French parliament. Then, once they saw this and shrugged him off as some dumb rural person, he began to speak in perfect French, quoting famous French poems and literature. He amazed them.

Alright I had a good laugh! The guy was charming and a natural womanizer, shame his mental faculties degraded so much that he would have a handler during the initial stages of the declaration of independence by rambling like a senile old man. Time catches up to us I guess
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>>24753
>I think he is one of the last true strategic masterminds and honorable military figures.
Your an idiom.

He was purposely overrated by Allied propaganda because he didn't identify with the party. He fucked upped in Africa commanding only 2 LA divisions and then he fucked up even worse in Europe.

>>24871 knows where it's at. Guderian was the most brilliant military mind of WWII.
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>>25060
Ok I'm being a little harsh because it really shits me off how fucking omnipresent rommel-boos are on any history forum, the man was a decent commander and less of a murderous shit than most high ranking Nazis, but seriously.
>punching through the maginot line
U wot m8?
>dying in a coup against Hitler
Firstly he was barely involved, and opposed to the actual assassination. Secondly you know, too little too late imo, if they'd manned up and offed the little shit in '38 think of how much shit could have been avoided.
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>>24753
>>24871
>>24954
>not Von Lettow Vorbeck
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>>25146
I like Jefferson a lot as well. Franklin strikes me more like Leonardo Davinci, with how diverse he was in his interests.

But really, all of the founding fathers were incredible. It was a incredible act of God to have them all exists together at the same time. What are the odds?
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I still miss him.
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>>25134
>denied the Austro-Hungarian military armoured cars after one frightened his horse at a display
this is not true - an order of a particular brand of ACs was purportedly cancelled because his horse was frightened, yes, but the austrians did develop and use ACs (although they did lag behind - but not because of scaring ah orse)
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>>24956
That "theory" is so misinterpreted, he could've shard that haplotype with countless other men, people aren't descended directly from him just because they have it.
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>>24753
Lord Louis Mountbatten is so hugely under-rated.

He #rekt shop, desu senpai
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>>25282
I'm admiring that uniform.
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>>25201
Rommel and his panzer division punched through the Maginot Line. They didn't even need to, he just wanted to show that he could.
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Jesus of Nazareth.

Literally the most famous person in the history of the world.
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>Saint Olga of Kiev
>husband killed by Drevilians
>Drevilians try to persuade her to marry their prince and give up her rule of Kiev by sending 20 of their best men to her
>she had them buried alive

>proceeded to tell the prince that she accepted his proposal but required their most distinguished men to accompany her on the journey to accept the marriage
>the Drevlians sent their best men who governed their land
>when they arrived she offered them a warm welcome and invited them to rest and clean up in a bathhouse
>once they were all in the bathhouse she locked the doors and set fire to the building, burning them all alive

>invited the Drevilians to a funeral feast so she could mourn over her husband's grave
>after the Drevlians were drunk, Olga's soldiers killed over 5,000 of them.
>she returned to Kiev and prepared an army to attack the survivors
>the Drevlians begged for mercy and tried to bribe her
>she asked for three pigeons and three sparrows from each house
>they were happy to comply
>proceeded to give each of her soldiers one sparrow with a piece of cloth and sulfur attached to them
>at night she ordered her soldiers to set the piegons free
>the pigeons returned to their nests, setting fire to the entire Drevilian city
>her soldiers quickly traveled to the city, where she ordered them to kill any survivors of those trying to flee
>>
>3 people contribute to thread
> the rest whine about who's better than who

How about you guys actually contribute rather than debase peoples interests
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>>25293
You should be 'mirin his making of the Invasion of Normandy possible.
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>>24954
Rudel was based as fuck.

Landed behind enemy lines to try and save two young pilots.

He failed, but he evaded enemy patrols and made it back to German lines after his plain failed to take off again.


He also never gave up on his principles which I really admire about him regardless of the fact that it turned him into a pariah.
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>>25302
>Rommel and his panzer division punched through the Maginot Line. They didn't even need to, he just wanted to show that he could.
what? he/they literally didn't
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Roman von Ungern-Sternberg. Combining the worst ramblings you could find on the racialist internet with the political influence to actually turn them into policy. Ultra-reactionary Buddhist monarchist, Mongol romanticist and absolute nutjob.
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>>25302
That's not a thing that ever happened
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Alexander von Humboldt
great naturalist, made lots of observations about the area, wasn't a huge dick, and was devoted to the concepts of liberty in USA. I really enjoyed the new biography of him, I'm glad it and the new yorker review are giving him some wider press in the 21st century.
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>>25247
Well if we think about it, I say the enlightenment era certainly helped usher in ideas of personal strength(not including the religious ideals).

I also imagine the areas of where they live also helped build their character. It helps by genetics but thats up to speculation, i mean look at jefferson, when writing up the declaration he was all up for personal freedom to condemn slavery, but Adams and Franklin did not want any of that as slavery was a big part of the culture and economic asset.
The writers of the Constitution had a huge amount of foresight in regards to the framework and the including of the amendments and bill of rights(which were forced to be included but still).
It was a huge gamble for them and it thankfully paid off.
It couldve been assault and bloody fight for the conversion of power from the Federalists to the Democratic-Repubs (Washington and Adams to Jefferson). But nope, everyone was cautious but power was passed on without any noticeable power struggles.

Incredible really, i wish history had saved all their information.
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>>25373
I also heard they wanted him to fly into Berlin in the final days of the war and extract Hitler. Never seen a good source on this but I've heard it was a plan that was considered.
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Because he did nothign wrong

t.totally not /pol/
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>>25390
>>25465
>Rommel later recalled how his troops broke through the Maginot Line: "The way to the west was now open. The moon was up and for the time being we could expect no real darkness. I had already given orders, in the plan for the breakthrough, for the leading tanks to scatter the road and verges with machine and anti-tank gunfire at intervals during the drive to Avesnes, which I hoped would prevent the enemy from laying mines. The tanks now rolled in a long column through the line of fortifications and on towards the first houses, which had been set alight by our fire. Occasionally an enemy machine-gun or antitank gun fired, but none of their shots came anywhere near us... On we went, at a steady speed, toward our objective. Every so often a quick glance at the map by a shaded light and a short wireless message to Divisional HQ to report the position and thus the success of 25th Panzer Regiment. Every so often a look out of the hatch to assure myself that there was still no resistance and the contact was being maintained to the rear. The flat countryside lay spread out around us under the cold light of the moon. We were through the Maginot Line! It was hardly conceivable. Twenty-two years before we had stood for four and a half years before this selfsame enemy and had won victory after victory and yet finally lost the war. And now we had broken through the renowned Maginot Line and were driving deep into enemy territory."
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>>24896
>our Lives lengthened at pleasure even beyond the antediluvian Standard
Seriously? The nutter actually believed people lived to be 900+ years?
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>>25201
>these babies that haven't read about the genius that was the Battle of Gazala or his constant tricks and twists through North Africa

looks like we got some parrots of the OKH boys
>>
Louis XVI is an interesting character, his life seems like tragicomedy.
And Adam Smith would another one, considering modern world is pretty much build on the idea of his free markets.
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>>25512
That doesn't make the remotest fucking sense he was never even in the right part of France for that to happen.
And the 25th Panzer Regiment was never even in France, it was only raised in 1942.
Where the flying fuck are you getting this shit?
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>>25512
how does that support the other post
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>>24954
For me one of the most admirable figures of WWII
>>25496
read his book m8, it's all there
>>25373
>He also never gave up on his principles which I really admire about him regardless of the fact that it turned him into a pariah.
This, and his personality overall, is something about him that really inspires me in my regular life.

Still, to me, most important historical figures are either scientists, or sci-fi writers, if they can be called historical figures at all
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>>25615
Regiment, not Division.
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>>25644
>read his book m8, it's all there

I plan on it. I figured that's where it was claimed.
>>
This dude right here. Literally the highest personal kills of anyone ever with targeted fire (I.E. not saturation bombing). His claimed kills are out of this fucking world.

Even though I read a lot of stuff about WW2 I didn't even know about him till last year. Probably just because he remained a nazi so no one wanted to talk about him.

This nigga did WORK
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>>25666
>I.E. not saturation bombing
Ex-fucking-cuse you?
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>>25585
>Battle of Gazala
>They have defenses
>O-Ok, let's g-go around them
10/10 FUCKING GENIUS
> constant tricks and twists through North Africa
You mean like losing?
EL Alamain best day of my life.
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>>24896
>>25146
>>25247
>tfw born too late to be a true Renaissance man
;_;
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>>25648
Which was in France but was never anywhere near the Maginot Line, they were in Belgium and along the Channel coast
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>>25691

I'm confused as to what you're trying to say
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>>25753
You're wrong, they broke trough the ardennes at the edge of the maginot line, it didn't just go by the German border but northwards to the Belgium one albeit severely less developed, and then dashed to the channel coast.

Retard.
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>>25706
>bait attack with italians
>complete communications silence
>132nd Ariete an italian unit actually beats British formations
>destroyed so hard Tobruk fell along with Gazala and allowed Rommel a chance to march on Alexandria

el alamein more like El failed to catch exhausted under strengthed divisions main
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>>25766
Just that Arthur Harris had a better K/D rate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-9qZ4Zs6Ys.
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>>24753
>not all "Nazis" were bloodthirsty jew-haters
They were. Rommel wasn't a nazi.
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>>25743
Nah mate we all have the potential, we have to work for it. These men had issues that led to them to who they were. I strongly believe people need to study not only their interests, but other information that could benefit their circle of interest and people.

I've been reading books more on history chemistry physics and now english lit. I plan on moving to math and biology afterwards. It doesnt have to be costly at all. The internet is here isnt it?

Ive been looking into getting a promotion in order to give me more freedom to stretch, and will work towards it.

Dont give up hope, we all can do it
>>
>>25824

Yeah but I'm not just talking dropping bombs over an area, even if it's a specific area. Rudel was a divebomber, he deliberately chose his targets, not just looked down and fucking let a bunch of bombs loose on pre planned target and hoped they found their mark.
>>
>>25829
>"I don't understand quotation marks"
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>>25884
>>25829
Rudel pretty much was a nazi, but not a bloodthirsty jew-hater, from what is known
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>>25805
... so they didn't break through the Maginot line 'just because' at all?
>>
">>25884"

nice, me neither
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>>25805
The 25th Pz Reg. was a part of the 7th Division, which was in Belgium right after Fall Gleb, then moved to the coast, then followed the coast and was somewhere near the Cotentin peninsula when the armistice was signed.
I stress again, nowhere near the fucking Maginot line, WHERE THE FUCK DID THAT PASSAGE YOU POSTED COME FROM?
ARE PEOPLE JUST GOING ON THE INTERNET AND TELLING LIES?
>>
>>25875
Strategic bombing had specific targets, but technology limited the effectiveness of acquiring those targets at an altitude.
>>
Gustavus Adolphus, greatest king of Sweden and easily the most important figure in the Thirty Years' war.

Made a regional power one of the great powers of Europe, made an empire and created one of the fiercest war machines of his day. Most importantly, he ensured the safety of Protestantism and laid the grounds for the victory of the Protestant countries in 1648.
>>
>>25324
I think George bushes famous words are relevant to the drevillians here:
Fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. Fool me... You can't get fooled again!
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>>25585
Because every 1 star general and his mother had similar exploits. It doesn't compare at all to the brilliance of the generals on the Ostfront.
>>
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also some worthy mentions

>von Manteuffel
>von Thoma
>von Runstedt
>Hans von Luck
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Tellyrand. Not necessarily a favorite, but def up there. This man was the ultimate opportunist and for that I salute him. I mean, when even Napoleon regretfully admits your importance to the regime, its gotta mean you got a crafty mother fuker on your hands.
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>>25974
What's so interesting about that? Personally I'm more intrigued by how he inherited three losing wars at the age of 15 and through shrewd diplomacy managed to win all three.

Although it is hard to say how much of this can be attributed to his statesman Axel Oxenstierna.
>>
>>24753
Hjalmar Schacht.

Brilliant economic mind and would've kept the NDSAP from ruination if they heeded his advice.

Went on to be entirely unscathed by the resultant Nazi backlash and remained an influential figure in the finance world for years.
>>
>>25644
>>25373 (You) here

>Still, to me, most important historical figures are either scientists, or sci-fi writers, if they can be called historical figures at all
Same here to be honest. I just can't just "pick one", there was so many important figures I don't have a fav.
>>
Out of my way you German shits
>>
>>25324
Interesting and informative, thanks for sharing.
>>
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>>26016

I just have high respect for this man, if there was ever a man I would have loved to have called king, it would be him.
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>>25911
They did, except your notion of the maginot line is wrong. It extended northwards on the belgium border, it just wasn't as fortified as the maginot line on the Franco-German border.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line#/media/File:Maginot_Line_ln-en_svg.svg

>>25946
You're an idiot. Pic related made just for you, this is, roughly, the route they took.

They didn't go into belgium and follow the coast, they went into belgium and into france and dashed to the coast,

I'm not even the same guy you were arguing with, retard.
>>
>>26028
And this is why I think /his/ has a future here. Because it's quite a wide-focused board, we'll be able to discuss it all properly, without fear of being off-topic, or against the rules.
I just hope it won't end up like /hr/, full of ballast with only a few interesting threads.
>>
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>>26033

>Operation Mars

Khalkin Gol and Uranus were absolutely amazing though.

This man deserves some praise as well.
>>
>>26116
He would have thought nothing of sending you to death for his own personal glory, though.
>>
>>26137
>Weak fortifications
>>
>>26251

I don't mind. I would have fought for him, especially if it were for the fate of Protestantism, being one myself.
>>
>>26254
He literally said the fortifications were weaker
>>
>>26254
Yes, it's what I told you, still part of the line so the Germans did technically break trough it.


Any other questions? No? Okay.
>>
>>26033
>out of my way
>picture of a butcher
Or what? Are you going to endlessly throw men at us?

His "genius" was mostly fabricated through propaganda.

For instance, relatively little to do with the planning and the execution of the battle of Khalkin Gol, but he was sure to have those who were purged. He didn't personally devise the steamroller encirclement that took place. His greatest skill was ensuring he received the maximum amount of credit wherever he was involved, and the higher ups who wanted a hero were more than willing to oblige.

One of the most over-rated Generals of the twentieth century.
>>
>>26254
>Over half the maginot line was weak

Why even bother then?
>>
>>26323
>>26319
>Still part of the line
Except it's not you dumb naziboo, the "Maginot Line only refers to the STRONG fortifications bit
>The Maginot Line (French: Ligne Maginot, IPA: [liɲ maʒino]), named after the French Minister of War André Maginot, was a line of concrete fortifications, obstacles, and weapons installations that France constructed on the French side of its borders with Switzerland, Germany and Luxembourg during the 1930s. The line did not extend through to the English Channel because the French military did not want to compromise Belgium's neutrality.
The Fortifications along the Belgian border were explicitly NOT part of the Maginot line as they were built much later
>>
He's a man who had a fondness for fucking peoples shit up.
>>
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>>25575
you don't?

it's 2 0 1 5 !
two
zero
one
five
!
>>
>>26407
>The Fortifications along the Belgian border were explicitly NOT part of the Maginot line as they were built much later
Yes, they were, retard, post the whole thing.

>The line stretched from Switzerland to Luxembourg, and a much lighter extension was extended to the Strait of Dover after 1934.
>>
>>25871
That's not what I mean by "true Renaissance man".

Let me greentext you about myself:
Academic
>ChemE PhD holder with several patents and publications.
>Also hold Physics BSc.
>Published research in academic fields other than STEM (sociology).
>Read a lot of philosophy, history and medical science (not just popular books; textbooks).
Fitness:
>Strong and /fit/ body currently at 9% bf / 85kg / 188cm.
>4plate deadlift.
>Advent rower with resting heartbeat at 49 bpm.
Business
>Own a small chemical manufacturing plant and contract analytics laboratory.
Arts and literature
>Sold commissioned (digital) artworks before.
>Written a few short stories and two novels (sci fi) though never tried to publish.
Other
>Certified technician (welding, milling/turning manufacturing, motor and panel wiring etc.).
>Naturalist (in the field biologist sense, got this from my farther who loved nature).
>Photographer.
>Robotics hobbyist; I've built several drones, hydroponics farm, automated my house with RaspPi controllers that I programmed etc.
>Linux Arch is my main OS.

This is about as far as I can get. I will NEVER match the achievements of what I consider a "true Renaissance man" or have so much as a wiki entry (not that I care about fame, but "true" renaissance men were famous). You just can't have it all like those men did. Getting to the edge of modern human knowledge takes half a life time. Getting into politics nowadays requires you to be born into wealth and connections, you can't just get elected because you were smart.

I mean, men like Richard Feynman did it, I guess I'm lying to myself. But still you can't for example do what he did in his youth by being a radio repair man.

Shit is just too specialized nowadays.

I might now all the design and operating principles of a car, but if car with digital controllers breaks down I can't fix it. In the past everything was simpler and you actually could get to the point where you understood perfectly how everything worked.
>>
>>26407
>posts image named maginot line clearly showing it extending north
>"bu...bu.. thats not the line jew hater!"
>>
>>26112
Ah, Nikola Tesla, the famous Croatian inventor.
>>
>>26539
hahaha holy fuck are you for real?
>>
>>26384
Because the top half is screened by neutral countries so you have time to redeploy. The terrain also sucked for armour.
>>
>>26635
Don't bully me anon I'm already depressed enough as it is ;_;
>>
>>26384
Because Belgium dropped the ball and it was rushed
>>
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Oswald Mosley, Conservative MP, Labour Minister, leader of the New Party, and leader of the British Union of Fascists

Mosley preached a brand of politics rare to this day, closer to original Italian fascism that anything else, but furthering an idea of the corporationist economy, expanding the socialist economic system, continuing democracy while replacing the hereditary upper house with representatives of key industries, preaching for neutrality in world affairs, along with much more, a unique ideology hard to pin down, somewhat a combination of the post-war Labour and Conservative psrties, taking their economic policy from the rebuilding Labour, and foreign and social policy from the one nation Conservatives

Biggest downfall was labeling his ideology fascist, Mosley was a man easily influenced and fell under the influence of Mussolini, and later Hitler almost trying to appear in the 'in' crowd, this also led to the party being dominated by national socialist Nazi sympathisers leading to many of Mosley's original supporters leaving him and the way of the party changing
>>
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>>24753
Nice elf you got there partner
>>
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>>26016
>What's so interesting about that?
What kind of stupid fucking question is that?
Military revolution and being a central figure in the most devastating European war of its time somehow not interesting?

You are a literal hipster faggot.
>>
>>26539
>blogs on 4chan
>BAAW WHY AM I NOT FAMOUS
really, truly pathetic
>>
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>>25134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CL6n0FJZpk

"Still H.R.E."

(feat. Jay Radetzky)

[Joseph "the Radical" Radetzky]

Still Radetzky and F-J-A (Guess who's back)

Still, still doing that shit, huh Franz?

[Franz Joseph I of Austria]

Oh for sure, check me out

It's still December 25th Graf, A.K. Graf

Before I fool the plebs, can't keep them home a lot

'cause when I frequent the fiefs that I'm known to rock

You hear the brass from the band when I'm on the block

Ladies, they pay homage, but haters say the HRE fell off

How Kollege My latest hit was "The Vilagos Defeat"

They want to know if he still got it

They say Absolutism's changed, they want to know how I feel about it

[Joseph Radetzky - singing]

If you ain't up on pace

[Franz Joseph I of Austria]

Archduke of Austria is the name, I'm ahead of my game

Still, revoking my charters, still fucking with the serfs

Still not loving liberals (Uh huh)

Still rock my coat of arms with a cross and a crest

Still got love for the privleges, repping '49

Still the beat bangs, still doing my thang

Since I left, ain't too much changed, still

...
>>
>>26903
A war which he didn't start, didn't participate in for most of it and died 2 years after joining isn't my definition of interesting. His story is one of administrative tasks, military revolution and winning wars against denmark, russia and poland.
>>
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>>24753
Arminius (Hermann, the Cherusci).

Because he was able to unite the Germanic tribes. He is considered as the first German.
>>
>>25324
She's one of my favourite Saint.
>>
>>26939
>Implying my post is a blog.
>Implying I'm whining about not being famous.

My point is that you could publish more and contribute more to science and engineering without getting wide spread recognition while in the best you got famous for electrocuting frog legs.

You entirely missed the point of my post and you seem to be trying to make it personal on an anonymous Manchurian cock enthusiast board for some reason.
>>
>>26995
in the past*
>>
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>>25419
I love this guy. He had the mentality of a Teutonic knight from 1100, the fucked up brains of a maniac, amazing leadership skills and looked fabulous. Many people forget that one of the first things he did when he took over the Mongol Empire is introduce the telephone and build a tramway in Ulan Bator.
>>
>>26959
>A war which he didn't start
Hitler didn't start WW2.
>didn't participate in for most of it and died 2 years after joining isn't my definition of interesting
Maybe because there wasn't much to participate in for most of it.
Tilly and Wallenstein didn't exactly have the longest terms, and their involvement was still significant.
Your criteria for relevance is retarded.
>military revolution
Yeah, this is kind of a central factor.
And why he is also interesting and important to the 30 years war.

Much like Ferdinand does for the HRE, Gustavus embodies the Swedish presence in the war.

Really, all I can discern from your posts is that you don't want to like his presence in the war because he's a popular figure in it.
>>
I really like Erich von Manstein, i wonder why nobody metioned him yet.
>>
>>26995
>Implying my post is a blog.
it is literally a blog
>Implying I'm whining about not being famous.
yeah okay buddy
>not that I care about fame, but "true" renaissance men were famous
you clearly care about being famous, because you apparently think that's all that separates you and 'renaissance men'. you're an absolute faggot
>>
>>27122
Fuck off, I'm anonymous how can it be a blog post you fucking retard?

Are you from /a/ or something? You sound like those twats who keep wanting to whine about any irrelevant thing that you view as offensive to your personal sensibilities. My post was clearly constructed to show how you could match many of the achievements of Renaissance men today without being one, hence the feels. Your projections are clearer than a Tsar bomb.

Not replying to you anymore faggot, go deal with your personal issues somewhere else.
>>
>>26011
I agree Talleyrand is at least the patron Saint of Diplomats if not more.
>>
>>27206
>waaah look how good i am at everything 4chan!
>b-but I'm not famous!
>not like i wanted to be anyway...
nice cognitive dissonance, kid. kill yourself.
>>
Khalid ibn-al Walid:

>Nickname "Drawn sword of Allah"
>Undefeated general
>BTFO Persians, Romans and Arab rebels
>Was almost ALWAYS heavily outnumbered

Even when he was fighting against the Muslims in his early life, he was successful (see battle of Uhud).

My favorite battle of his is Walaja where he used a double envelopment manoeuvre. He has dozens of other great battles, but important ones are Yarmouk (annexed Levant from the Byzantines) and Qadisiyyah (annexed Sassanid empire).

Some badass quotions:

>"Submit to Islam and be safe. Or agree to the payment of the Jizya, and you and your people will be under our protection, else you will have only yourself to blame for the consequences, for I bring the men who desire death as ardently as you desire life."
- To a Persian governor

"And here I am, dying in my bed, like cattle die. May the eyes of cowards never sleep."
- His last words, lamenting that he didn't die in battle (there are also conversations with a friend where he expresses he wanted to die in battle).
>>
>>24753
>Went on a date
>Guy tells me he is interested in history
>Shows me some photos on his phone
>Closes photo app
>See his wallpaper
>It's Rommel
>"Who is this?" I ask, curious what he will say.
>"Some german guy". Thinks I don't know.
Yeah, the date didn't go well.
>>
>>27206
Also just to add I actually am famous to an extent. I get published in the local press all the time and have been since I was still in high-school. More people in total know my name than those who knew real Renaissance men. The difference of course being that there's 7 billion other people on the planet.

You chose to focus on "fame" because you're trying to find a flaw and project your personal insecurities, it is not something I deeply care about any more than many other things I want to achieve.

I'm trying to emphasize the difference that the world is so much bigger now and getting to the edge of true greatness is virtually impossible for an individual, being a true renaissance man can't happen, we are all irrelevant in the modern world.
>>
>>27336

are you a girl? please be in london
>>
>>27377
No, Japan. Where else would people think it's ok to have Nazi wallpapers.
>>
>>27336
>"Some german guy". Thinks I don't know.
He obviously said that because he thought you were retarded for not knowing him and he didn't want to bore you. That is a very standard thing to do on a date, you don't want to make the other person feel like a retard.
>>
>>25419
This
>>
>>27418
>>27336

Or he didn't want to scare a girl off by telling his wallpaper is a literal Nazi field marshal.
>>
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>made to swore as a child to be an enemy of Rome
>Figuratively fucked the Romans from the backdoor, surprise rape; in a tactical ancient military sense
>had the Gauls rallying for him (something Rome fails to fucking do)
>defeat series of generals, among them 2 consuls, another 2 consuls for the next year, 80/300 fucking senators IN ONE SINGLE BATTLE (which crippled and could have destroyed the fledgling Rome effectively from functioning)
>had the would-be superpower and the model for Western civilization by the balls (a word of a messenger running non-stop from one of the battles caused a shitstorm sending people throughout Rome pants-shittingly praying and running about)
>never heard any unrest or protest from his army even though he had made them walked the fucking way to Rome through the Alps, even the Gauls.

Literally the greatest general over Alexander, who should be 'perhaps' on par with him, although to be fair he fucked up on Zama with Scipio.

>Then he asked Hannibal whom he placed next, and he replied, "Pyrrhus of Epirus", because he considered boldness the first qualification of a general; "for it would not be possible", he said, "to find two kings more enterprising than these".
>Scipio was rather nettled by this, but nevertheless he asked Hannibal to whom he would give the third place, expecting that at least the third would be assigned to him; but Hannibal replied, "to myself; for when I was a young man I conquered Hispania and crossed the Alps with an army, the first after Hercules."

>As Scipio saw that he was likely to prolong his self-laudation he said, laughing, "where would you place yourself, Hannibal, if you had not been defeated by me?" Hannibal, now perceiving his jealousy, replied, "in that case I should have put myself before Alexander". Thus Hannibal continued his self-laudation, but flattered Scipio in a indirect manner by suggesting that he had conquered one who was the superior of Alexander.
>>
>>27438
>Nazi
Idiot.
>field marshal.
Fucking retard.
>>
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>be Slovene officer in Austria Hungary
>prevented from accesing powerful positions because of your pro slovene activism
>constantly bashed by your superiors
>proceed not to give a fuck
>WW1 starts
>somehow survive even though every single superior hates your guts
>when A-H starts falling apart, the Austrians decide to cling on as many territory as they can
>what about no
>manage to btfo the Austrians in all of Lower Styria
>disarm an entire city (Magburg an der Drau - now Maribor thanks to him) and its garrison with a handful of man through a clever ruse
>push till the last Slovene village in Styria
>fatherland secured
>proceed to write 2 quality poetry volumes while doing all of this
>promoted to 4 start general by the Slovene-Croatian government
>as soon as the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs is annexed to Serbia, he gets shat on by the Serbs
>forced to retire as 3 star general
>forced out of public life, because any yugoslav heroes that aren't Serbs arent worth mentioning
>die a few years later, not before publishing some more qulaity poetry
>still remembered as the greatest Slovene officer of all time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Maister
>>
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>>27372
>Also just to add I actually am famous to an extent.
uhuh
>and getting to the edge of true greatness is virtually impossible for an individual, being a true renaissance man can't happen, we are all irrelevant in the modern world.
lol you're objectively wrong you're just sore that you're not famous

you actually have to achieve something that makes you relevant you moron. the fact that you are lamenting over 'oh, why could it not be I that was a renaissance man. bah, it is not me, but the world that makes it impossible!' goes to show how much of a dumb faggot you are.

renaissance men aren't known because they're really good at everything. they aren't known because they got some garbage column published in a newspaper. they aren't famous because they even acknowledged fame in their endeavors let alone complained about it on shitholes equivalent to 4chan.

>being a true renaissance man can't happen
I want to throw up, you are such a retarded, arrogant faggot.
literally saying
>because I can't do it, it can't happen
I taste bile
>>
>>27457
>>field marshal.
>Fucking retard.
>>
>>27418
Probably right. Japanese are so racist they wouldn't know that having a Nazi wallpaper is something to hide.
>>
>>27457

Fought for the Germans, he was a Nazi for all intents and purposes.

>fucking retard

Yeah, fuck off to /pol/ or /int/ or whichever shithole you came from.
>>
>>27512
>he was a Nazi for all intents and purposes.
>I don't know what the phrases I use mean
wew lad
>>
>>27545

Good that you admit you're a retard. Didn't even know Rommel was Field Marshal and calls me a fucking retard for knowing it. Absolutely embarrassing, lad.
>>
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>>27563
>thinks I'm the other anon
>still doesn't comprehend that Rommel literally was not a Nazi 'for all intents and purposes'
classic
>>
>>27610

>so embarrassed he pretends to be someone else

embarrassing, lad. embarrassing.
>>
>>27095
>Hitler didn't start WW2.
Yes, yes he did.

>what is the Munich Agreement
>what is the invasion of Poland
>>
>>27632
>so embarrassed he starts memespeaking too
couldn't be sadder mate
>>
>>27650
>what is the invasion of Poland
A mutual divvying up of a non-country between two superpowers, leading Britain and France to start WWII against Germany.
>>
>>27687

>memespeaking

I think /reddit/ is the place for you lad. Really embarrassing what you've done here. Made a total fool out of yourself.
>>
>>27715
>a non-country
oh boy here we go again
>>
>>26956
thank you anon
I mean it
>>
>>27715
>non-country
>existed hundreds of years before both Russia and Germany
You also forgot to mention that this occurred after Hitler have his words that the Sudetenland were his last and only territorial demand he has left in Europe. You know, before he moved and occupied the rest of the Czech Republic, Memel from Lithuania and started making demands for Polish territory.
>>
>>27729

He's right though. A non-country like Poland being divided among two powerful countries should not warrant a fucking world war that will kill a thousand soldiers, let alone dozens of millions. Poland is not even worth a single British soldier.
>>
>>27787
how is/was poland a non country when it literally was a country
>>
>>27484
>>27512
Because everyone knows his promotion to field marshal was for pure populists reasons. He fucked upped because he wasn't good at commanding such large theaters. He didn't deserve it he was a better at commanding a single army.
>>
>>27762
>existed hundreds of years before both Russia and Germany
Titular semantics, this meme needs to end.

>You know, before he moved and occupied the rest of the Czech Republic, Memel from Lithuania and started making demands for Polish territory.
Again, you forget that sabe-rattling and annexation in Europe wasn't a German-only practice.
But cute, keep thinking Hitler was the sole reason WWII occurred.
Had nothing to do with Churchill, de Gaulle, and Stalin. Only evil Hitler!
>>
>>27804
Made property of Prussia and Russia in the 18th century, thank you.
>>
>>27729
Poland is a non-country. It was made up just to deny clay to Germany and Russia after WWI when it had ceased to be a sovereign entity hundreds of years ago.
>>
>>27856
and a sovereign country for centuries, and a sovereign country at the time we are talking about right now
>>
>>27819
So you are saying he was not a field marshal, but he actually was a field marshal. OK.
>>
>>27467
Fucking traitor scum.
>>
>>27751
kek thanks
I'll do the whole thang if I'm bored enough
>>27819
See this is why you shouldn't be surprised when Višegrad becaome a thing again.
>>
>>27861
If its a non country why does it still have its own language, culture and ethnicity if it stopped existing.
People like you is why moot didnt want to make a /his/ board, he literally said that he doesnt want it to become /pol/ 2.0
>>
>>27836
>muh semantics
No argument whatsoever and resorting to memewords

>Again, you forget that sabe-rattling and annexation in Europe wasn't a German-only practice.
Yeah, the Soviets did it, with collusion with the Germans when they divided Europe among themselves, but war was started by Germany, only a retard with some strong mental gymnastics could argue otherwise.

>Had nothing to do with Churchill, de Gaulle, and Stalin. Only evil Hitler!
Out of those listed only Stalin was in power before the war started.

Not only are you a dumb cunt, you also lack basic knowledge of world war and the events leading up to it.
>>
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>>27836
de Gaulle was a simple Divison General until he formed the Free French Comitee you retard. We should all have listened to Maurras for once and fuck your shit up in '33.
>>
>>27886
>So you are saying he was not a field marshal, but he actually was a field marshal.
Yes. I am saying precisely that.


I wouldn't call him a Field Marshall any more than I would ever refer to the Sultanate of Rum as Rome. It's a title he didn't deserve and got for morale boosting political reasons when the war was lost already.
>>
>>27861
Poland only ceased to exist in 1867, way less than 100 years, retard.
>>
>>27908
>buttblasted Austrian detected
Seriously though, Yugoslavia was a mistake, blanda-upp when?
>>
>>27861
Oh look, another 1/64th German heritage American Germanboo. Germanboos have time and time again been voted as the most autistic. (Apart from Prussiaboos that is)
>>
>>27913
>If its a non country why does it still have its own language, culture and ethnicity if it stopped existing.

Do you not understand the concept of an "empire"? It belonged to the German and Russian empires. They have claim to it for that reason.
>>
>>27955
>i wouldnt call rommel a field marshal because he did not deserve it even though he was a field marshal years after being promoted in 42
>>
>>27927
>but war was started by Germany
takes two to tango m8
are you actually blaming britain and france's pitiful declarations of war on germany? as if they lacked their own will and were purely caused by germany to react?

really, there is an enormous, apparently inexplicable gulf, coming from a retard like you, as to why WW2 was against the nazis and not the soviets. considering the causes you present are in principle just as well to be attributed to the soviets.
>>
>>28033
i think if a country X says that it will protect country Z if country A attacks it - but does not initiate hostilities against country A yet - and then country A attacks country Z and as a result X joins the war, then in that case yes, country A is to blame for starting the war
>>
>>28003
I'm not American or German and I'm also not the other guy who thinks that Germany wasn't responsible for the war (it was inevitable, Germany needed a war time economy to survive).

But Poland was created by the entente solely to deny the territory to German and Russia. That's why they proclaimed a guarantee of it's borders in the first place and also why they barely gave a fuck when it was invaded.

So yes, in my opinion, there is a valid reason for Germany and Russia taking the clay back.
>>
>>25324
>Saint Olga of Kiev
>husband killed by Drevilians
>Drevilians try to persuade her to marry their prince and give up her rule of Kiev by sending 20 of their best men to her
>she had them buried alive
That's fucking metal.
>>
>>28033
>takes two to tango m8
No it doesn't, it just takes one to invade.

>are you actually blaming britain and france's pitiful declarations of war on germany? as if they lacked their own will and were purely caused by germany to react?
Yes, as Germany attacked Poland well aware of the consequences, furthermore Germany ignored the Ultimatum to cease the war against Poland.

>really, there is an enormous, apparently inexplicable gulf, coming from a retard like you, as to why WW2 was against the nazis
Except you're wrong and retarded. WW 2 was against Nazis because they started it.

>and not the soviets. considering the causes you present are in principle just as well to be attributed to the soviets.
False, and the west did try and supply the Finns during the witner war, while Germany was stopping even Italian shipments coming to Finland because they agreed in the M-R pact that Finland is to be a part of the Soviet sphere.
>>
>>28013
>It belonged to them/They have a claim
Yeah something as honourable and glorious as a 3 way suprise attack surely means that they have a n actual claim.
>Concept of an Empire
So USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Ireland are non countries because they belonged to the British Empire? Also most of those countries didnt exist until Britain created them so if anything Poland is more of a country than they are, by your logic
>>
>>28076
yeah too bad that magically didn't apply to the soviets, woops!
>>
>>28108
>No it doesn't, it just takes one to invade.
Two invaded, retard.
Why do you have such an aversion to admitting the double standards applied to the Nazis and Soviets? They're right there in history, why don't you acknowledge them?
>>
>>28013
And Prussia was a vassal state of Poland...
>>
>>28089
>But Poland was created by the entente solely to deny the territory to German and Russia.
You are literally denying the agency of millions of Poles. Of a people (re)building their nation.

Your argument is 'well this area was once ruled by someone else, that makes it okay for that someone else to wage war against it'.
>>
>>28122
that is because the country X said specifically it will go to war if country A attacks country Z
not if country U does it
>>
>>28142
>Two invaded, retard.
No, only Germany invaded, the USSR joined 15 days later.

>Why do you have such an aversion to admitting the double standards applied to the Nazis and Soviets?
There is no double standard, the allies had a clear agreement with Poland, it did not involve a guarantee against the Soviets because they feared Poland would use this to strong arm the Soviets. The West had no obligation to wage war against the USSR. What you're arguing for is a moral obligation, but only a retard like yourself would not consider the implications of going to war against both continental powers in Europe.

>They're right there in history, why don't you acknowledge them?
Because you're making false equivalences.
>>
>>28203
So how was it not that agreement that started WWII?
Why was it Hitler?
Convenient causation, of course.
Demonize da evil nazzy!

Instead of realizing that the West started WWII.
>>
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>>28120
Before WWI Europe went through it's longest period with stable borders and national entities than it had ever seen before. People thought it would last forever.

You could've split off any old German duchy with a different accent and it would've been the same thing. In fact there are virtually countless historical sovereign entities than you could break any country into. Poland is not more valid than the others language is not a factor inside empires. All imperial citizens have the same rights. Poland post WWI was a political creation with no validity under contemporary international law.

Pic related best borders. I'm a boo for these borders even including Ottoman's, I don't care about Germany in particular.
>>
>>28261
see >>28076
>>
>>28166
But Poles identified as German and Russian respectively before Polish nationalism propaganda started being pumped into them by entante puppets.

That's why Poles are so overly nationalistic even today despite being virtually identical in genetics to Germans because of centuries of mixing and Germanization.
>>
>>28307
Again, how is it not that agreement that started the war?
Without it, there would have been the same non-reaction towards the Soviets.

Instead, that agreement started WWII.
>>
>>28272
>Poland post WWI was a political creation with no validity under contemporary international law.
Why do you lie on the internet? Is it ignorance? Is it bad intentions?
>>
>>25585
The Conflict in North Africa was done by using ww1 tatics with ww2 technology and weapons. Rommel was not a mastermind in any way.
>>
>>28339
... are you serious?

there was literally no war before the germans invaded

ther was no war

no armed conflict

no pressing of triggers

no ejection of brass

no bullets flying

no organized violence between two entities

there was no war

you know when the war started? when nazi germany attacked
>>
>>28379
>you know when the war started?
Yes, when Britain and France declared war on Germany.
>>
>>28261
>So how was it not that agreement that started WWII
Because Germany started the war by invading Poland. That simple, what mental gymnastics are you up to?

>Instead of realizing that the West started WWII.
Oh, I see, Germany invaded Poland but Germany did not start the war because Poland had an agreement with the UK thus the agreement started the war?

Top lel at your mental gymnastics. Here's a very simple explanation for you. Germany is of not invade Polan = no war. Simple, isn't it?
>>
>>28362
>by using ww1 tatics with ww2 technology and weapons
You wanna know how I know you don't know anything about WW1 tactics?
>>
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>>28272
Fine just ignore the arguments I gave about your "empires" excuse. Now onto this map.
There was unrest as Polish people wanted their own country, because they have their own language, culture and ethnicity. Prussia tried and failed many times to turn poles into Germans by forcing them to learn German and deny their nationality as Polish. And yet after years of failure on that there are 38 MILLION People who are citizens of this "non country". When it comes to being relevant nowadays Poland ia the 18th strongest nation in military terms and has tone of the smallest military budgets. Doesnt sound lime a non country full of people who dont want soveignerty to me.
>>
>>28394
>Germany is of not invade Polan = no war.
And this is only because of the Western agreement.
No agreement = no war.
Simple, isn't it?
>>
>>28393
you have stopped reading the post too soon - but that is okay, it was rather too long - please continue reading past that sentence, thanks
>>
>>28417
except the war instigated by german invasion of poland
>>
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Marinus van der Lubbe
>retarded
>Dutch
>communist
>>
>>28437
Sure it was.
A small, contained conflict, was the instigation of WWII by the Germans.
And not the declaration of war by France and Britain.

Sure it was :,)
>>
>>28344
It's against the Hague convention. It's looting because it steals wealth from both empires. They had no de jure claim to it and therefore weren't allowed to just take it away from those empires. It was not what the war was about.
>>
>>28485
so yes, even in your scenario where you originally said there would be 'no war', there actually would have been war

now, in real life, things happened as outlined in this post which i have refered to you already >>28076
>>
>>28272
>It's against the Hague convention. It's looting because it steals wealth from both empires. They had no de jure claim to it and therefore weren't allowed to just take it away from those empires. It was not what the war was about.
>what are the partitions of Poland
>>
>>28492
Divide and Conquer m8
Russia, Prussia and Austria had no Causus Belli agains Poland when it partitioned it either.
>>
>>28527
And yet without that prior agreement and the presence of those other countries involved in the war, the could not have been a war.

Mutual involvement is necessary.
Singular instigation is arguable.
It necessarily involved Western powers, WWII did not begin SOLELY because of Hitler because without others to react to his actions there would have been no war, therefore necessarily entailing others in the initiation of WWII.
>>
>>28393
No, Germany invaded Poland (Without a fucking declaration of war at that) on the 1st of September, that's when the war started you idiot, UK&France sent an Ultimatum to Germany to stop the war against Poland, on the 3rd of September, after the ultimatum was ignored by Germany, they declared war.

War was started by Germany, that simple.
>>
>>28401
I was not aware that there was any unrest. Do you have any source on that which isn't post war propaganda to establish its validity? I don't mean like one asshole taking out a news column, did the majority actually want independence or was it forced on them? Before WWI most people wanted to speak German because it was like English today the intellectual and business language. I can't imagine that Poles didn't speak German.
>>
>>28549
>what are the partitions of Poland
Divvying up of a non-country between two superpowers.
>>
>>28579
which of these two events are war:

- country A saying it will defend country B if country C attacks it

- country C attacking country B
>>
>>28597
>a non-country
how is/was poland a non country when it literally was a country
>>
>>25324
We just don't get Saints like that anymore
>>
>>28585
>War was started by Germany
Invading Poland =l= WWII.

Operation Barbarossa + German Declaration of War on US = WWII. Be pragmatic for one second in your life.

If you're going to argue that Germany started WWII all on its lonesome, at least use good reasons.
>>
>>28607
see
>>28579
>>
>>28597
Back to square one with you retarded Prussiaboos.
We would argue all day but the thread is reaching bump limit. The best hing is is hat no matter how much you cry about your glorious german empire Poland will still exist as a country with 38 million people.
>>
>>28597
It was literally a country, how does that make it a non-country?

>whaa I don't like Poland so they're a non-country
They're one of the oldest countries in Europe.
>>
>>28681
lol poland, you're madder than any actual prussiaboo
>>
>>24753
General Luna. His movie was good, and he was probably the first Filipino to understand total war. If only the Filipinos won in the Philippine-American War.

Please don't fork me over to the Muslims.
>>
>>28701
>Poland
Im English
>Haha ur just mad
Another fantastic argument by your typical prussiaboo
>>
>>28658
see
>>28607
>>
>>28643
>Invading Poland =l= WWII.
That's exactly what it is, the start of World war 2. A war started by Germany.
>>
>>28721
polish irrelevance is not an exclusive meme to being a prussiaboo, and you are clearly bum-tumbled by it
>>
>>28724
see
>>28579
>>
>>28579
>we didn't start the war because you fought back
Top lel
>>
>>27449
It's pretty incredible that Hannibal and Scipio were on speaking terms late in life.
>>
>>28750
You literally cannot have war without secondary parties fighting back. It only becomes war when secondary parties fight back.

When those secondary parties are not being invaded, and declaring war themselves, they are starting the war too. Germany logically could not have started WWII by themselves. It's literally impossible.
>>
>People still thinking this is somehow about being a Germanboo

I'm trying to argue quite reasonably that the creation of Poland as a modern state was done solely to take land away from the German empire/nation and Russian Empire/gnomie state, less for than actually giving independence to a people yearning for it; that came later after indoctrination by leaders who were obviously Western puppets.

I think everyone that wants to be independent has a right to independence even in the modern world, I'm not trying to argue against the existence of Poland as a modern nation (though some of the other guys possibly are). Though I doubt they'd have this sentiment where it not for Western geopolitics.

Simple supporting evidence: Why was such a large portion Belarus given to Poland after WWI? Why do modern Belorussians identify more with Russia than Poland? Clearly the creation of modern day Poland has always been a power play by other sovereign entities as it's borders shifted according to the winners (see Oder-Neisse as well while the eastern half of the country was again annexed by Russia).
>>
>>28736
>Le irrelevant meme

see
>>28401
>>
>>28773
Who else was Hannibal going to talk to tb.h fa.m.
>>
>>28824
it's a meme, that's the meme
to consider it as a meme and not go autism mode about people calling it a non-country
>>
>>28779
but of course germany did not start the war 'on its own' as in without a second party

it started it by invading poland
>>
Suvorov knows what's about.
>>
>>28809
Is it about stealing land from Germany and Russia when neither had a legitimate claim on Poland and didnt have a causus belli?
>>
>>28837
True, but I figure it must've been kinda awkward.
>Hey Hanni remember when I slaughtered your people and burned your homeland? Good ol' times eh
>>
>>28779
>When those secondary parties are not being invaded, and declaring war themselves, they are starting the war too.
The war has already started - with the German attack on Poland.
>>
>>28843
Autism mode is default on for Prussiaboos.
How is it autistic to discuss History on a History board? Whats autistic is trying to bring memes into it
>>
>>28859
>it started it
"It" did not "start" "it".
The war started.
It couldn't have been a world war if it did not entail the entire world.
Simplifying its cause to a singular event is ignorant.

What you mean to say is
>the officially recognized beginning of the war is Germany's invasion of Poland
Not
>the Naz started WWII by invading Poland! dey did it!
>>
>>28809
>less for than actually giving independence to a people yearning for it; that came later after indoctrination by leaders who were obviously Western puppets.
are... are you even aware of polish history? the above paragraph + the bit about "being given belarus" lead be to believe you are not

i do not mean that disparagingly, but genuinely, please read about poland in ww1 and in the immmediate postwar years, it is a good read
>>
>>28872
But they did have a legitimate claim on it. It had been part of their countries for generations.

You're getting back to the "X country once occupied Y therefore Y belongs to X forever".

Guess we should give all of Spain, the Balkkans and Southern France back to ISIS then.
>>
>>28883
>The war has already started
Retrospectively.
It wasn't WWII when Germany invaded Poland.
It was the German invasion of Poland.
At the time, 'the war', AKA WWII, had not started.

The primary events of WWII did not take place until years after.
>>
>>28912
>The war started.
On its own? Like in a vacuum? It somehow materialized out of thin air? Without anyone, you know... starting it?
>>
>>28779
>You literally cannot have war without secondary parties fighting back. It only becomes war when secondary parties fight back.
Yes, but we're not talking if there was or was not a war, we're talking who fucking started it.

>they are starting the war too
No, they're not, the attacking party is the only one starting war, the defending party is merely waging war.
>>
>>28875
Carthage wasn't burned down until about a hundred years after the second Punic wars.
>>
>>28894
>Autism mode is default on for Prussiaboos.
and the anons triggered by prussiaboos
>How is it autistic to discuss History on a History board?
because responding to memes with
>NON-COUNTRY? HOW FUCKING DARE YOU, YOU LITTLE BITCH, HOW IS IT A NON COUNTRY IT LITERALLY ISN'T
isn't discussing history. it's just turning on autism mode in response to memes.

here's a tip, next time someone posts
>polan is non-country lol
respond with
>nice meme ;)
>>
>>28912
>the officially recognized beginning of the war is Germany's invasion of Poland
Not
>the Naz started WWII by invading Poland! dey did it!
Exactly the same thing, even with your straw manning. If the second world war started with the invasion of Poland, and if Germany invaded Poland and thus started the war then Germany also started world war 2.
>>
>>28948
Read the rest of the post, and try again, hombre.
>>
>>28870
The bullet is a mad thing, only the bayonet knows what's it about.
>>
>>28978
see
>>28939
>>
>>26112
Fucking this. He might have been the greatest mind to ever exist.
>>
>>28932
Wtf
I dont even know where to begin.
Declaring war with no provocation and taking its land does not give you a claim on it. Especially when there was no jusrified reason to invade.
ISIS does not have any connections to the Umayyad Caliphate. And the invasion hy the Caliphate was also unjustified and not recognized by the wester world. Thank god for Charles Martel ţbh
>>
>>29006
World war 2 started in 1939 with the German invasion of Poland, every continent was thus involved in the war as both France and the UK had possessions around the globe if you want to argue semantics.

Germany was the one that started the war against Poland thus Germany, by extensions, started world war 2. You should drop your mental gymnastics at this point and just admit you're retarded desu senpai
>>
>>29224
>World war 2 started in 1939
If you want to unquestioningly abide by rough dates made to correspond with events to suit a particular historical narrative that was written in hindsight, sure.

Logic is mental gymnastics?
You cannot logically conclude that a war the entailed the entire world was started by only a single country. Because that assertion is completely ignorant to the numerous other causal factors which the beginning of the war entailed.

Stay simple, friend.
>>
>>29337
>More mental gymnastics
>calls others simple
Lel
>>
>>24753

>Naziboo in denial: The post
>>
>>29396
>no counter argument
>just say mental gymnastics for the dozenth time
Damn.
>>
>>24871

>Guderian

Duh, you realize the tactics he published in Achtung Panzer were not his, right?

All he did was basically market the doctrine to the army.
>>
>>29424
What counter argument, there's nothing to argue any more, you just keep insisting blindly while several posters repeatedly explained it to you.

It's very simple actually, it's a historical fact that world war 2 started with the invasion of Poland by Germany. It's thus a very easy conclusion that Germany started world war 2.

Now you can go back to mental gymnastics again and claim something stupid like "it takes two to tango"
>>
>>29506
>it's a historical fact
>I take all 'historical facts' unquestioningly without considering the circumstances in which they were written and why
Pretty sad to be honest.
>>
>>24954
I'm fairly certain Rudel's killcount is grossly overblown.
>>
>>24861

This. He was an alright general, but not the better the Wehrmacht had to offer. Guderian and Manstein were better.

Also, he forced Hitler to use resources in the less important strategically Sahara War and divert troops and tanks from the Eastern Front.
>>
>>29556
>I dismiss historical facts because they go against my ideology
Now that is sad.
>>
>>26779
In photographs he either nails the part of intimidating passionate maniac or comes across as a goofy walt disney impersonator
>>
>>29610
>my ideology
>I have no idea how history is written
>posting on a history board
>>>/out/
>>
>>24796
Nah, that's Andrew Jackson
>>
>>29629
>history is written by the victors meme nazi were the good guys didn't start wars
>>>/pol/
>>
>>29648
>history is written unbiasedly and without ideological motivations
>>>/out/
v
v
v
/
o
u
t
/
>>
>>29675
>my version of history is actually the correct one because heil hitler
>>>/pol/

You should really go, you were btfo by, like, 6 different posters.
>>
>>29808
>not questioning everything including /pol/'s garbage history
>implying history would not be written to present poland as the horrible aggressor's who started WWII if it was won by the Naz
grow up today, be a fallibilist, not a retard.

>um, like everyone disagreed with you so...you should probably stop posting? o_O
whoa, nice argument bro!
>>
>>29849
But you literally have no argument except >you're wrong, germany didn't start the war because I say so

So, calling you a retard is still a better argument than what you bring to the table.
>>
>>29869
no, my argument is
>simplifying the cause of WWII as a whole to the German invasion of Poland is ignorant and blindly follows the common historical narrative of WWII instead of acknowledging that its breadth could not have been entirely due to that single event

you have no counter-argument except
>b-but wikipedia says otherwise!
>heh, nice mental gymnastics
so, calling you a retard is still a better argument than what you bring to the table
>>
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Adolf Galland

Tallanted pilot, great organizer, tactical mind and had massive balls
>>
>>25253
So sad to hear about bis death.
>>
>>29995
Yes, yes, we're all being fooled but you, we succumbed to the lie and were lead by our noses. You, on the other hand, a true intellectual with wisdom far surpassing those around you and indeed those who devote their lives studying the subject, have cracked the code, deciphered the lie, saw trough it all and it is you who is right, and then, in your benevolent nature, decided to bestow upon us this knowledge you have unlocked.

>>>/pol/
Retard
>>
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>>30511
>no argument
>xD go back to /pol/! lol i showed him
>>
>>30547
>world war 2 only started when I say it started, you're just a fool that didn't unlock the knowledge I have

/pol/ is the place for people like you.
>>
>>30547
>reaction pic
>>
>>30620
>no argument
>/pol/! lol i did it again
we could do this all night, i literally did my phd in shitposting, and you still haven't proven me wrong
>>
>>30676
But I don't have to prove you wrong, that's the point, you're the one making contradictory claims. The academic consensus is well established, too bad you do not acknowledge it because according to you, only you are an authority on the subject, everyone else is tainted.
>>
>>30713
>But I don't have to prove you wrong,
can't*
> you're the one making contradictory claims
it's not a contradictory claim, it's a criticism of a historical narrative

>arguing from consensus
so you literally don't have an argument, cool
>>
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>No Bismarck
>No Frederick the Great
>No Charlemagne
>No Alexander the Great
>No Trajan or Augustus

What is going on here m8s?
>>
>>30767
>can't
More like you can't deal with facts.

>it's not a contradictory claim, it's a criticism of a historical narrative
No, it's a directly contradictory claim. World war 2 started on the 1st of September 1939, you assert it did not.

>so you literally don't have an argument, cool
Is what everyone in this thread kept telling you. You have to read it before you can pass any criticism on it.
>>
>>25318
You spelled Mohammed wrong
>>
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This guy.

I've got a thing for hopelessly outmatched underdogs.
>>
>>30796

More like Alexander the great at inheriting awesome armies that his dad made

amirite
>>
I've always liked Oda, he didnt give a fuck about stupid "honor" shit that Japan orgasm'd over, he was like "Fuck dat shit" and did whatever he needed to do to win, and he did!
>>
>>30853
lol and you can't even read
I told you
>World war 2 started on the 1st of September 1939
is an ignorant simplification

>Is what everyone in this thread kept telling you.
you =l= everyone in this thread.

where's your argument?
oh wait you don't have one, shit.
>>
>>30890
I wouldn't have picked Alexander as my favourite figure either but I am very suprised he hasn't really been mentioned.
>>
>>30628
? (not him)
>>
>>30910
And he's workshipped for it.
>>
>>28955
more like 56 years, idiot.
>>
>>30910

Hideyoshi was cooler

Oda went out like a bitch

Though the stuff he did before that was rad
>>
>>30920
>says the person without an argument

>is an ignorant simplification
It is not, the 1st of September marks the start of the world war, on the 3rd of the September every continent was involved in the war.

>you =l= everyone in this thread.
Plenty of others posters tried to hammer it trough your thick skull, you just keep memeing and ignoring it.
>>
>>25302
>Rommel and his panzer division punched through the Maginot Line
>>
>>30987
>says the person without an argument
my argument is right here
>>29995
try again

>It is not
> the 1st of September marks the start of the world war
it roughly marks the event most topically considered by the people who wrote the history of WWII as the war's beginning. the conflict it entailed, until 1941, was minute and relatively inconsequential. germany's declaration of war on the US, operation barbarossa, and japan's expansion in the pacific all mark events which far more realistically demonstrate the beginning of the war. events prior to those are obligatory, but you take officialism like a dick in your gay ass, and contain every drop of its ejaculate in your colon to this day.

>Plenty of others posters
you =l= plenty of other posters
>>
>>31166
>it roughly marks the event most topically considered by the people who wrote the history of WWII as the war's beginning. the conflict it entailed, until 1941, was minute and relatively inconsequential. germany's declaration of war on the US, operation barbarossa, and japan's expansion in the pacific all mark events which far more realistically demonstrate the beginning of the war
False, it marks the expansion of the war, not the start of it.


So, again, you have no argument, all you're doing is claiming you're right because, well, because. Nothing else backs you up.
>>
>>31210
>it marks the expansion of the war, not the start of it.
no, it marks the start of the significant global warfare for which the war is namesake.
1939 marks a minor regional conflict.

so, again, you have no argument, all you're doing is claiming you're right because, well, because. nothing else backs you up.
>>
>>27395
Finland?
>>
>>31268
>no, it marks the start of the significant global warfare for which the war is namesake.
False, it has nothing to do with significant global warfare, no such warfare took place in any of the America's.

>1939 marks a minor regional conflict.
False again as it marks the start of the world warm with France and UK stepping to Poland's aid, thus signifying the start of the World war as every continent from that point onwards was involved in the war.

>so, again, you have no argument, all you're doing is claiming you're right because, well, because. nothing else backs you up.
Pick up some literature, you'll be surprised.
>>
>>31360
>False, it has nothing to do with significant global warfare
germany's declaration of war on the US, operation barbarossa, and japan's expansion in the pacific, all mark the beginning of significant global warfare for which the war is known. german uboat raids off american coastlines, the beginning of the largest conflict in world history, and the japanese expansion into the pacific leading the US to declare war on it.

you are objectively wrong in denying that these events have 'nothing to do with significant global warfare', and it goes to show how little you actually know.

>False again as it marks the start of the world warm with France and UK stepping to Poland's aid, thus signifying the start of the World war as every continent from that point onwards was involved in the war.
the dumb fuck strikes again, you literally don't even have a coherent timeline of the war in your undeveloped mind. the invasion of poland was a minor regional conflict, try again.

>Pick up some literature
oh the ironing.
yeah, might want to go check some dates and events yourself there, mister 'no such warfare took place in any of the America's, that doesn't mean it was the largest simultaneous occurrence of warfare in the world, entailing all major oceans, superpowers, and what's that, only took place in 1941, with minor, inconsequential, defusable events occurring beforehand

keep posting, keep proving me right
>>
>>31505
>that doesn't mean it was the largest simultaneous occurrence of warfare in the world
wasn't*
>>
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>>24954
>not bubi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann
>>
>>31505
>germany's declaration of war on the US, operation barbarossa, and japan's expansion in the pacific, all mark the beginning of significant global warfare for which the war is known
False, there was significant global warfare before hand. Japan in China, German raiders in the Atlantic and Indian oceans and the Pacific

>the dumb fuck strikes again, you literally don't even have a coherent timeline of the war in your undeveloped mind. the invasion of poland was a minor regional conflict, try again.
False again.

>yeah, might want to go check some dates and events yourself there, mister 'no such warfare took place in any of the America's
Fact, no major warfare was conducted on any of the Americas at any point of the war.

>that doesn't mean it wasn't the largest simultaneous occurrence of warfare in the world,
Irrelevant, the war expanding doesn't invalidate the previous war and makes it not a world war.

>and what's that, only took place in 1941, with minor, inconsequential, defusable events occurring beforehand
>he calls the Fall of France, Poland, Benelux, Balkans, much of North Africa, Norway and Denmark a minor defusable event
Spot the retard.

>keep posting, keep proving me right
You're pretty fucking good at proving yourself wrong.
>>
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Pedro II of Brazil

Such a tragic figure, but a fantastic king.
>>
>>31641

>Not Marseille
>>
>>31648
>there was significant global warfare before hand
does not even come close to the scale of the global warfare that commenced in 1941, you are so naive in thinking WWII is considered a world war for the localizable conflicts that occurred pre-41

> you literally don't even have a coherent timeline of the war
>False again.
lol you're really not proving me wrong there

>Fact, no major warfare was conducted on any of the Americas at any point of the war.
I never claimed it was

>Irrelevant
you are honestly stupider than I thought if you think the events that occurred in 1941 aren't the practical commencement of what we know as WWII, and to call that irrelevant.

>he calls the Fall of France, Poland, Benelux, Balkans, much of North Africa, Norway and Denmark a minor defusable event
they entailed so few casualties relative to what took place after, that yes, the situation was completely defusable relative to operation barbarossa, the declaration of war on the US by germany, and the declaration of war on Japan by the US. that was the point of no return, escalating annexations resulting in few casualties into, you know, a world war.

>You're pretty fucking good at proving yourself wrong.
don't get too riled up now, friend

when you see practical reason, you'll see how wrong you are.
>>
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>>31894
>does not even come close to the scale of the global warfare that commenced in 1941
Irrelevant, already told you, the fact the war expanded does not invalidate the previous war or makes it any less of a world war.

>you are so naive in thinking WWII is considered a world war for the localizable conflicts that occurred pre-41
Pic related, newspaper in 1939

>I never claimed it was
But you surely implied so, retard.

>you are honestly stupider than I thought if you think the events that occurred in 1941 aren't the practical commencement of what we know as WWII, and to call that irrelevant.
You are the one that's stupid and keeps contradicting established facts of the academia on the subject, not only that but you're argument's are poor and subjective as to what constitutes a world war and what does not.

>they entailed so few casualties relative to what took place after, that yes,
Again, irrelevant, see the first reposnes, tard.

>the situation was completely defusable relative to operation barbarossa
False, the UK refused all and any possible solutions to an end of the war short of Germany returning to 1939 borders.

>don't get too riled up now, friend
Does pic related hurt you?

You can stop posting now.
>>
>>32021
>academia
>a fucking newspaper headline
jej
that's a good joke

>Irrelevant
sorry friend, but it's actually the single most important factor in this argument, and entirely relevant. learn what words mean before you use them!

> the fact the war expanded
practically commenced*
>does not invalidate the previous war
no, it doesn't invalidate them, it puts into perspective how minor and localizable they were compared to the conflicts which commenced in 1941, good reminder ;)

>But you surely implied so
prove it. seriously, show me where.

> and keeps contradicting established facts
criticism =l= contradiction, learn what words mean before you use them!

>Again, irrelevant
nope lol!

>False, the UK refused all and any possible solutions to an end of the war short of Germany returning to 1939 borders.
relatively defusable =l= was actually going to be defused. under ideal circumstances, it was completely defusable. the political circumstances enabled WWII to occur, as it did, from 41 onwards.

you can stop posting now ;)
>>
>>25575
Or he was just using a known myth as an example for what the future could bring. .
>>
>>32174
>>32021
>>31894
isn't this supposed to be a board for serious discussion, not this shitty gamefaqs tier going line by line? learn to fucking write an actual argument fuckers
>>
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>>32174
>Academia considers the start of world war 2 in 1939
>People living in the time period considered the start of world war 2 in 1939
>News papers from 1939 considered it a world war 2

Meanwhile there's you, an autistic retard on a vietnamese pearl diving forum disputing it. How does it feel to get rekt so badly you resort to emoticons? Are you bumrustled?

My job here is done.
>>
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>>32251
>isn't this supposed to be a board for serious discussion
>learn to fucking write an actual argument fuckers
>>
>>25993
So tell us about them. What did they do?
>>
>>25585
>constant tricks and twists through North Africa
tricks such as 'running out of fuel' and 'overextending supply lines' and 'abandoning allies' and 'getting defeated'
>>
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>>32339
>you'll keep replying to my posts because you're desperate
>I'll keep laughing at you
>>
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>>32590
>whaa, whaa why did Time Magazine call it a World War on the 11th september of 1939
>M-muh officialism
Try not to cry buddy


>"Den anden Verdenskrig udbrod i Gaar Middags Kl. 11" Kristeligt Dagblad, September 4, 1939."
"The second World War broke out yesterday at 11 a.m" Kristeligt Dagblad (Danish newspaper), September 4, 1939
>>
>>26033
>>26173
I don't get the hype over Zhukov. If you look at the frontline situation prior the start of Operation Uranus you can see that the 6th Army was basically asking to get encircled and it's shit fucked up.
>>
Subutai
>Have scouting force
>Annihilate Georgians
>Annihilate Russians using the winter to their advantage
>Buttfuck Poland and Hungary within a few days of one another


Truly one of the greatest tactical generals of all time. Maybe it was because Europe was baby-tier compared to the Chinese and Muslims he was used to facing though.
>>
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>>29630
>>
>>30796
A naziboo successfully derailed the thread by claiming that Germany didn't start World War 2.
>>
>>26016
well, sabaton wrote a song about him, thats interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLt0lerdgKs
>>
>>25324
"saint"
>>
Well, this is how that board turned to shit before the 3500th post was reached.
>>
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The story of his life alongside his own philosophy is fascinating. He was a bit of a historian as well, since he was a philologist.
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>>31731
Greatest Brazilian that ever lived
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>>24753
Absolutely dominated Rommel, making him so butthurt he'd blame Hitler leading to his death. He was then slandered by American historians and Rommel (who he absolutely crushed and literally and utterly defeated) is now considered a genius
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Remember, this man is being replaced by a black woman on the $10

>not jackson or grant
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>>24861

As generals go, I agree. But if you read about the actions he performed in WWI, you see that he had a certain cunning and understanding of tactics that aren't feasible once you're commanding units larger than a battalion or two.

His grasp and use of small unit attacks and light infantry manoeuvres were decades ahead of other commanders, and are still used today.
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Scipio Africanus, just because he fucked up Hannibal. He also swore to continue the fight against Carthage to his father, like Hannibal. Also being a total madman when he rushed towards his father who was being beat to shit. Fuck you, Rome.

>>27449


>>27449
Hannibal is pretty badass, too.
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