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Sub-Saharan Africa: The Glory Days

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Thread replies: 321
Thread images: 86

In this thread, we talk about the fact that Africa wasn't just mudhuts and Egyptians. Here is one of my personal favorites, the Nok culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok_culture

They were a iron-smelting people, who made their own version of terra-cotta art. Pic related.
>>
is that a statue of a guy having a chin wank?
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>>10905
>when the ass is fat
>>
African history is awesome. Im a fan of ethiopian history myself.

People who think african societies are backwards and primitive are some of the oddest folk. They do not understand history nor athropology nor sociology nor any of the humanties in general.
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>>10905
OP do you think nigeria is the most advanced sub saharan nation in africa to date? I believe it may have something to do with the nok culture.
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>>11071
Care to illustrate?
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These swords are fucking weird.
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>Glory Days
Nah. Africa wasn't just mudhuts and shit, but I wish people would stop trying to make up some romantic past for it. There were a few cool cultures and civilizations, some brilliant art, etc, but it was never some kind of paradise. That idea does as much damage as /pol/shit.

Any, pic related is pretty interesting
.
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>>11077
I'd think it's split between Nigeria and Ethiopia. Nigeria is in my opinion the most advanced in West Africa.
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>>11117
This
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>>11117
Not that guy, but Ethiopia has some pretty nice architecture and Nigeria has cool art. There's some other stuff too, but those are the big ones.

You want me to post something specific?
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>>11128
Back in 2000 someone on the Everquest team must have seen a photo of these as they were the newbie Iskar race weapons in the Kunark expansion.
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If the Sahara didn't dry up, how different would the world be?
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>>11136

Well atleast I am learning some interesting shit here. I hadnt given an african iron age a second thought. You think there production was limited due to lack of conflict?
>>
Great Zimbabwe, the Libraries of Timbuktu. Ghana Empire.

Sheba too, where ever that was.
>>
I love story of how the Kongolese willingly christianized themselves.
The Kongolese believed in a race of ghost people that would one day come to share insane amounts of wealth with the people of the Kongo and offer them wisdom.

When the white Portuguese came, they thought of them as those ghost people of myth and interpreted Christianity as that great wisdom.

That's why you check a list of Kongolese Kings and suddenly you see Kings with names like "João"
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>>11071
Is this bait
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>>11499
Medieval West african sculpture was better at the human figure than Europe was at the time.
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>>11071
Yeah it's more interesting learning about them selling each other to slave traders
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Oh the Benin bronzes are culturally significant too
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>>11715
>joao

Which translates too?
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>>11733
Maybe at first, but European stuff from the 12th century onward is as good or better. Besides, East Asian stuff at the time was better than either of them.
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>>11789
It's the portuguese version of "John" and a very common name in Portugal through out History.
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>>11837
>History is a competition
Good meme
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>>11715
There was a Central American people like that, but with the British instead. Bizarrely they weren't actually converted until some Moravian protestants came over in the 1840s. But their kings had the WASPiest names.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miskito_people#Rulers
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I believe africans are hard wired for a social hierarchy that always values the leader, alpha, or strongest individual. This naturally is adversary to coalition, teamwork, and groupthink. Any weight behind this being the reason their countries are ass fucking backwards today?
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>>11715
Is there a source for that? It kinda sounds like bullshit.
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>>11898
None at all.
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I love everything from the horn of africa, Abyssinia, etc. Their role in the Silk Road, the fucking weird shit like the Coptic Church, the Jewish Kingdom in there, the Ethiopian Empire. Best Africans.
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>>12005
Ok then I agree with you
Sorry for being mean
>>
Aksum was one of the great powers of late antiquity and they gave shelter to Muslims and had a pretty good relationship with them for a while. They were also one of the first to convert to christianity.
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>>11942
The Copts and pre-Christiniaty sub-saharans have a pretty rich history, but if I have to pick favs its' definitely the westerns. not to mention they are the hottest africans out there.Their only fault was willingly converting to islam
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>>11920
How about capitalism infecting a foreign people? I have no knowledge of their past, and dont know of any ancient civilizations in the continent that are alive today. A seeming predisposition to concentrate power in a dictator imo, combined with a foreign concept of capital would explain to me the current states. What I would like to know is; are there any current civ structures coming from and thrving in aftica?
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>>12062
>The name is derived from an event said to have occurred at Mecca: Abraha, the Christian ruler of Yemen, which was subject to the Kingdom of Aksum of Ethiopia,[2][3] marched upon the Kaaba with a large army, which included one or more war elephants, intending to demolish it. However, the lead elephant, known as Mahmud,[4] is said to have stopped at the boundary around Mecca, and refused to enter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Elephant
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>>11717
>>11745

this is a history and humanities board. Discuss the thread topic, make your own thread, or leave.
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>>11700
I think Sheba was Ethiopian.

>>11745
>implying people of the same race don't sell each other all the time

Arabs took out a lot of Arabic/European slaves and shipped them all around the world. Especially those Cirassian girls.
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>>11900
Sorry, man, I read it in a blog way back ago. it listed it's sources but I can't find it.
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>glory days

rhodesia? Zimbabwe used to be the "breadbasket of africa". Now they starve to death because of mugabe
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>>12220
By glory days, I meant before the European colonization of Africa. And yes, Mugabe is a jerk.
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>>11900
Just check wikipedia for the list of kongolese rulers
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>>12176
Sheba was in Yemen if it existed, the Solomonic dynasty just made up a story about the Queen of Sheba being their ancestor to legitimize their rule.
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>>12104
>hottest africans out there.
But that's not central africans! And if you give a shit about religion, they're also vastly majority of christians.
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>>11745
And /pol/ is already shitting on everything, like always.
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>>11900
Well, he's right that the Kwilu dynasty has plenty of portugese names.
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Can we talk about the Fulani?
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>>12461
>>12602
I meant the story about ghosts. It sounds like the kind of thing someone would make up in the 19th century. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't sound real.
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>>12549
I think he said that with tongue in cheek, meaning that more people rather talk about the negative aspects than accept that africans aren't all mud huts and loincloths
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>>11117
Quads make me respond. I am speaking as a reaction to those who blindly dismiss african cultures and scocieties as less than others. It seems to be the stereotype for most, no?
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My favorite West African bronzes are the ones of Portuguese soldiers
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>>12549
Well im asking legitimate fucking humanities questions, on topic and no one is responding such as
>>12131

So it might as well go /pol/ atleast people are talking
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>>10905
Did you learn about the Nok culture from that guy who did that amazing alternate history timeline? That's when I first found out about it and I thought it was pretty obscure.
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>>12790
pic didn't attach
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I am genuinely interested in what aspects the fucking Nok society survives today on a communal level
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>>12535
Eh, centrals are alright, but western african faces are literally perfect

That said, I can't remember where those tribals peeps that expanded their lips with clay circles where from.
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>>12805
Okay, have fun there I guess.

It seems your average /his/chooler isn't interested in this kind of b8, thank fuck.
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>>12902
To be honest, i know mainly central africans, so i'm naturally biased. Also because their girls obviously flirt with me, something considerably rare in my nation's very introvert culture.
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>>12834
Did they sculpt a bulge?

>>12902
West Africans are fucking gorgeous.
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>>12909
Wheres the b8 friendo.
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>>12902
They are form Ethiopia
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>>12790
Look up the Afro-Portuguese Ivories, you should like them. Basically, when the Portuguese arrived in west Africa they found the natives were great at carving ivory and commissioned them to make things like salt cellars and decorative spoons, usually with Christian/European imagery. What you get are these amazing ivories with a mix of African and European imagery. This was especially common in Sierra Leone, though it happened in Benin too.
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>>12220

Rhodesia actually is far enough back that it meets the 25 year threshold.

Unfortunately, the breakup of the USSR doesn't.
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>>13180
That's really nice.
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>>13317

I'd hope the jannies would be sensible enough to allow something that happened 24 years ago to be discussed...
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>>12902
But when Centrals look beautiful, they really look godly. This girl is half rwandan half congolese, but born and raised norwegian.
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>>13534
What is her name?
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>>13461

Depends on their autism levels, I reckon
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>>13069
Codpieces, m8. Armors were sculptured with a bulge so you wouldn't chafe your penis. the most famous example is Henry VIII's armor
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>>13561
Seka Iraguha. I actually met her a few times. Pretty smart girl. Works in some UN department in Sweden now i think.
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>>13534
She's extremely attractive
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fula_people

These guys are some of the most culturally diverse ethnic groups in Africa.

Fun fact: Some of their ancestors were originally from Asia, but they came back to Africa some several thousand years ago.
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>>10905
>literally a fucking chin wank statue

Ok
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>>14253
>Some of their ancestors were originally from Asia, but they came back to Africa some several thousand years ago.
Fucking why?
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>>14253
Here's a sub-section of the Fula people, the Wodaabe, in a beauty contest. The women vote for who is the most handsome man based on aesthetics, and from the looks of it, crazy faces, as seen here >>12670
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>>11675
Much better. Before the desertification, settlements during the Neolithic Era in current central/west Sudan had a rich enviroment (but is now desert) that supported a large population and were having an agricutural revolution. They were also settled with domnesticated plants and livestock, which is unusually early by the world scale.

They contructed Megaliths and is one of the worlds oldest and first known archaeoastronomy devices, predating Stonehenge by 2,000 years. Their culture also formed the basis of later Nubia and Egypt. But then desertification hit and pretty much wrecked the ancient societies hard as they were dependant on settled agriculture. Had it not happened, things would have been very different today, most likely.
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>>14456
Those are men
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>>14474
>The women vote for who is the most handsome man
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>>14456
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>>14456
They look like backup singers for Prince.
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>>14438
Yeah, why didn't they just use google to see the current situation in Africa?
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>>14468
That really sucks.

>>14438
People went back and forth to and from Africa, not to mention the entire Old World. There's Indian DNA in Australian Aborigines and vice-versa, European DNA in some Khoisan without it being recent (in other words, colonization), Austronesian DNA in at least half of Madagascar, etc.

Humans love to move, and wherever we find other humans, we must fuck them.
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>>14456
>those cheekbones

Goddamn.
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>>11128
You think THOSE swords are weird?
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>>13625
It was to remind the women why they were there.. not for chafing
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>>13625
Mate you didn't stick your penis inside of the bulge
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>>15639
where did he say that
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Ge'ez is my favorite non-Latin alphabet
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>>12104
Can you give a curious anon the rundown on Coptic Christianity?
>>
I remember hearing a story of an African king who traveled to the middle east and brought all his riches with him, and because of the presence of him and his subject the area's economy pretty much got turned inside out.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? I heard it in one of the rare "fuck eurocentric history games" on /v/.
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>>15996
Mansa musa
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>>15996
I think you are talking about Mansa Musa, aka the most wealthy man in the history of the planet.
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>>15996
Mansa Musa in Egypt lad

Overrated desu, because Mali sat on one of the largest - and easily exploitable - goldfields in the world
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>>15479
Is that a pizza cutter?
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>>16094
It looks like a novelty kitchen gadget that my mom would buy desu
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>>16040
Honestly that's the only thing I've ever heard about Mansa Musa. Are there any good resources that give a more detailed account of his life?
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>>16166
Wikipedia
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Sub Saharan Africa's history is nothing more than straw huts until the Europeans came and taught them how to work metal.
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>>16264
No.
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>>16264
/pol/ is trying so hard to astroturf this board.
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>>16264
>blatant lies
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>>15479
>that penis to the side
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>>11846
>Citation
Or at least an example
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>>13180
I saw some at the Disney-Tishman Collection at the Smithsonian. They're pretty awe-inspiring.
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>>16166
He gained his throne from his uncle who tried to sail the western sea and was never seen again.

Unlike his predecessors Musa was a devout Muslim and abhorred paganism.

Eventually he made hajj and brought back foreign scholars to study in Mali too.

Musa commissioned schools and libraries.

I'll admit African history can be a niche subject but I prefer it that way.
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>>11128
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuCnZClWwpQ

The video is long, but very good.
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>>16094
Its a throwing knife, I'm pretty sure. There's a lot of really cool/odd looking African throwing knives out there.
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>>16264
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So which one of these kingdoms were the most successful?
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>>18046
Depends on how you mean successful, but i would give it to ethiopia.
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>>13534
>Those aesthetics
>With a norwegian accent

Oh god muh dick
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>>17929
>African ninja stars
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>>18099
Pretty much this. Ethiopia was civilized and prosperous. Their main disadvantage was that they had Muslim between them and Europe, so commerce was out of question. When the Portuguese came, the kingdom flowered once again. If only the Euroniggers (Italians) did not destabilized them...
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>>11071
Ethiopia is not sub-saharan btw
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>>18046
Hands down Mali, Asanteman, or Ethiopia
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>>18440
Ethiopia is south of the Sahara desert and has more in common with its neighbors than with North Africans or West Asians
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>>12133

Muslim Elephants, i love it
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>>10905
wow thats some really good 'art'..

how can europians even compete?
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>>12131

There are functioning democracies in Africa, yes. Botswana and Namibia are the best examples.
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>>18625
How does this thread have an SJW feel? Go away /pol/
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>>18680
cultures aren't a competition
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>>13069

BIG

WHITE
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>>18701
Stop feeding the damn trolls

We have decent threads about african history on /tg/ because we ignore shitposters and actually discuss the finer points of the subject

They get bored and fuck off
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>>13625

no, it was so when you got a boner in the middle of battle it wouldn't go *CLANG* against your armour and embarrass you

read a book, dude
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>>18680
>you subjective taste is worse than my subjective taste
It's ok sempai. Is 20 fucking 15 desu
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>>18762
fuck off back to >>>/tg/
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>>10905
ITT we thx rhodes
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>>18835
If you don't report-hide-sage you're part of the issue
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>>15479

it is multipurpose, my friend i love it
>>
>>15996

MANSA MUSA MY MONEY BEAUCOUP
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>>18680
Professional artists were not a common thing in the region this piece is from. It was likely sculpted by someone who had a different primary job. African art is important because it is largely folk art and thus representative of the broad colloquial culture, and not simply of the landed elite.
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>>18702
everything is a competition
>>
Very unique sculptures and weapons.
Who taught them how to smelt? Muslims?
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>>18926
Technically, their technique was developed before Islam existed.
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>>18948
What's the technique called? Or where can I find info on more weapons like that?
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According legend Mali was founded by the hero Sundiata Keita.

He defeated the dark lord Sumanguru Kante and his twelve allies united into one Mandinka nation.

In reality he was most likely a very successful and charismatic local king who took full advantage of the collapse of the old empire of Wagadu, beating out the claim of the Sosso tribe as successors to Wagadu.

Manden (origin of the term Mandinka) was a collection of city states until they were united under the Keita clan in the early 13th century after the climactic battle of Kirina.

Sundiata later converted to Islam after subduing the Wolof people who had converted earlier.
>>
>>18996
It's pulled exclusively from the largely illiterate Khoisan hunter gatherers who live in the desert.
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>>13625
fucking henry
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>>19053
Nice bait.
>>
>>11733
>what is roman sculpture
>what are charlemagne's court artisans

Come on bait harder.
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>>11873

> Misquito people
>ruled by wasps

kek
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>>19114
what?
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>>19155
I hope you'r real fucking proud of yourself
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>>18680
>>18910

Also The Two Crowns was painted fucking 1900 (and thus had Classical, Byzantine, Early Medieval, Romanesque, Gothic, Renaissance, Baroque, Rococo, Neoclassicism, Romanticism, Realism and Impressionism to build off), whilst this sculpture is from the Nok civilisation, and thus from between 1000 BC and around 300 AD.
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>>19182
I refuse to apologize
>>
>>19181
You heard me
>>
>>19053
>Indigenous people of America
>Blacks
Thanks for dragging down the literacy rate of wherever you're from.
>>
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>>19131

Roman sculpture is superior (but not Medieval), while Carolingian art is probably equally as good.
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>>19239
>indigenous people of america
>alive
and here i thought people were supposed to know history..
>>
>>19053
blacks aren't the indigenous people of detroit, bruv. We're talking about those alcoholic injuns that are now kept in their reservation containment zones
>>
>>19282
>People don't consider native Americans to be indigenous
Nice job being pedantic though
>>
>>18998
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/iron/hd_iron.htm
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>>19282

But they are, and that map is a measure of INDIGENOUS populations (and it's probably bloody awful when it comes to accuracy)
>>
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The first humans arrived in west africa around 12,000 BC. And sometime in the 5th millennium BC they began farming. Around 1200 BC they started working iron and by 400 BCE they made contact with north african Berber tribes and Carthage.

Travel across the desert was difficult as FUCK prior to the arrival of the camel. However, the Sahara was far more hospitable in antiquity.

During the neolithic it was actually a vast savanna full of waterways.

The art of the Nok culture is strongly believed to be an influence on that of the later Volta-Niger speaking populations such as the Yoruba and Edo.

Wagadu (better known as the Ghana empire, named as such by the arabs after the name of the king) arose some time in the 4th century AD. Most likely as a confederation against nomadic berber attacks. Since 1500 BC the people of the sahel had begun building increasingly dense settlements such as Tichit-Walata out of stone.
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>>18685
Ghana's not doing too badly as well, by third world standards anyway
>>
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>>11128
>Curved swords
>>
The rapid Bantu expansion is clear evidence that technological progress was happening in sub-Saharan Africa. They had iron and agriculture and so rolled right over the hunter-gatherers who'd lived in that area since forever, although I dunno to what extent the Bantus developed metalworking and agriculture themselves or got it from the Mediterranean world...
>>
Why is there nearly no evidence of African architecture beyond mudhuts?
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>>18680
>yuropoors
>>
>>18910

African art also served as an inspiration for modern European artists Picasso.
>>
>>20630
Because there was no high-yeild staple crop in SS Africa before corn and bananas were introduced.
>>
>>20591
Ironwork was developed independently in sub saharan africa.

It helped that the deposits of workable iron are fucking everywhere.
>>20819
Not many people know this, kudos
>>
If you're ever around Detroit, go the Charles H Wright Museum of African American History. There is an unforgettable ~3 hour exhibit describing African history from as far back as it goes to now. Unfortunately there are no photos online, so just trust an anon. That shit will stick with you forever.
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>>18680

Well, this was European art from the same time...
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>>20703
Prefer this to renesaince painting tbqh
>>
>>11675
It's what seperated sub-saharan africa from the rest of the old world, so they would have traded with all the other civs and you'd see a lot more larger empires there, and also europe and asia would benefit from said trade.

On the other hand, europe relies on wind blowing north over the sahara for its temperature, so its likely europe would be much colder and less developed as a result.
>>
>>21615

the sahara is a white supremacist desert
>>
>>10905
talk about bbc
>>
>>10905
>africa isn't just mudhuts!!!!
>shows everyone that it was just mudhuts.
I'm confused OP?
>>
>>21648
kek
>>
Thank you mods.

Let's talk about Queen Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba.

How did she manage to kek the Portuguese for so long?
>>
>>22729

By developing Ndongo's martial power and tightening the control she had on trade between the Portuguese coastal colonies and the African interior.
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>>22729
>The Portuguese never honoured the treaty however, neither withdrawing Ambaca, nor returning the subjects, who they held were slaves captured in war, and they were unable to restrain the Imbangala.

>The Imbangala or Mbangala were 17th century groups of Angolan warriors and marauders who founded the Kasanje Kingdom.

>Instead, they replenished their numbers by capturing adolescents and forcing them to serve in their army. In methods reminiscent of modern child soldier recruitment, the young captives were often forced to kill and eat people, consume considerable alcohol and could not be admitted to full membership until they had killed an enemy in combat. Cannibalism, ritual human sacrifice and torture were all featured in what seventeenth century observers called the "quixilla laws" (from Kimbundu kixila, or prohibition) by which the Imbangala were said to live.

Shit, never knew child soldiering had been a centuries old African tradition
>>
>>22934
>>>/pol/
>>
>>11898
>Having a leader is contrary to teamwork

Noice
>>
>>22863

The Imbangala were just a bunch of nasty violent fuckers who deserted the Portuguese and waged wars against based Nzinga and the Kingdom of Ndongo just because they wanted to expand and have more territory to maruad and pillage. Literally shit-tier pre-colonial Africans.
>>
>>22993

>In almost Spartan-like program, children were trained daily in group and individual combat. During training they wore a collar which could not be removed, even after initiation, until they had killed a man in battle. Aside from infanticide rituals, the Imbangala covered themselves with ointment called maji a samba believed to confer invulnerabliity as long as the soldier followed strict set of yijila codes. The yijila required the infanticide, cannibalism and an absolute absence of cowardice.

Idk as savage and stupid as it is it also sounds pretty badass and cool ngl.
>>
>>22993
>waged wars against based Nzinga and the Kingdom of Ndongo just because they wanted to expand and have more territory to maruad and pillage

...there's a better reason?
>>
>>23087

Nzinga cared about her people because she was good and pure and qt
>>
>>23158
Surely you can know that.

Why is African history so sparse?
>>
>>23158

>tfw she will never ally with you (the Dutch) against the Portuguese because of your justice and politeness, while the Portuguese are proud and haughty.
>tfw you will never cuddle with her inside her royal hut in the heart of Kabasa, the capital of her kingdom

WHY LIVE
>>
>>23208

I know I was making it up.

Also there's not a lot of written records, simply because written languages weren't that common. Apart from Ge'ez/Amharic I think the only place they've found possible evidence for a writing system is on some pottery excavated near Calabar in south Nigeria.
>>
>>11128
IIRC they were used to curve over shields or blocking weapons so that the opponent would still get hit. Romans encountered similar swords and added the horizontal ridge to their helmets to help protect against them
>>
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some mud huts are actually pretty cool
>>
>>22729

Yaa Asantewaa > Queen Shitzinga desu senpai
>>
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>182 posts
>not one mention of Meroe or Kush

how could this happen
>>
>>23420

for sure
>>
>>23628

i love these style buildings they're so comfy
>>
How about Somalia? Since they're situated at the very end of east Africa from the silk road, they must have something interesting.
>>
>>23710
Their legal system is pretty interesting

>Xeer, pronounced [ħeːr], is the polycentric legal system of Somalia. Under this system, elders serve as judges and help mediate cases using precedents.[1] It is an example of how customary law works within a stateless society and closely resembles the natural law principle.[2]

>According to Spencer Heath MacCallum, the Somali nation did not begin with the common use of the Somali language by the clans, but rather with the collective observance of Xeer. Xeer is thus referred to as being both the father and child of the Somali nation

>Under Xeer, there is no authority that dictates what the law should be. The law is instead discovered by judges as they determine the best way to resolve a dispute. As such, the Somali nation by tradition is a stateless society; that is, Somalis have never accepted the authority of any central government, their own or any other.[3] Under Xeer law, Somalia forms a kritarchy and conforms in many respects to natural law. The lack of a central governing authority means that there is a slight variation in the interpretation of Xeer amongst different communities. The laws that are widely accepted are called xeer guud and those particular to a specific community are referred to as xeer tolnimo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeer
>>
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lettuce not forget the church of saint george, ethiopia

it's rock solid ;^)
>>
How common was inbreeding in Africa?
>>
>>18837
>Year of Our Lord MMXV
>being a nihilist

https://vimeo.com/55784152
>>
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>>21422
The idea that art has to be ultra realistic is retarded.
>>
>>24375

and usually perpetrated by people that don't understand art or aren't generally interested in it and know a lot about it
>>
>>24503
It's a real shame
>>
>>11128
Wow those swords look pretty awesome
>>
>>23381

And the records they left are cryptic at best, lost in obsolescence.
>>
>>21005
>Ironwork was developed independently in sub saharan africa.

Do we really know this, thought?

Given that civilizations to their north had been working iron for a long long time, eventually you'd think that knowledge would filter south. Whether from the Phoenicians or Arabs or whoever.
>>
>>11128
Khopesh is GOAT
>>
>>15479
Precursor to the Swiss army knife?
>>
>>12133
>>18653
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tBqdKGiqnI
>>
>>19028
I first encountered the Sundiata legends via Walter Ong's discussion (in Orality & Literacy) of anthropologists trying to collate them all through the weird-ass African bards who sing them. Might be an interesting read for anyone who likes Sundiata.
>>
>>25353
look and despair
>>
>>25950

<3
>>
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>>20630
Well besides the Ethiopians who were very advanced, you also have the Mali Empire which had some pretty rad buildings.
>>
Why is most of ancient African cultures situated in west-central-east Africa? What about the south Africa? Were there no known old culture there? One would think it would be more hospitable for growth in that region rather than right below Sahara
>>
>>10905
But even in those cultures they did live in mudhuts. Just sayin, no h8 m8.
>>
>>23208
>Why is African history so sparse?
No written language.
>>
>>17694
Pic related, but I should have said 13th century really.

>>25422
Yes.

It was assumed in the 19th-early20th centuries that metalworking came from Eurasia, and in some cases like Nubia and Ethiopia that's true. But pretty much every modern archaeologist agrees that the major iron-working tradition of Africa grew up in the Western Sudan (around Niger) independently. See >>11136


>>30817
East Africa was civilized because it was a part of the wider system of Eurasian civilization. West African civilizations grew independently there, probably because that's where most of Africa's crops and agriculture originate, as well as being the origin of ironworking. Also, the trans-Saharan trade stimulated economies which promoted the growth of cities and states.

Sub-tropical Africa was only colonised by agriculturalists during the Bantu expansions, so it took a much longer time for their populations to build up. They were isolated both from Eurasia as well as other parts of Africa. Notably, horses couldn't reach the region due to tsetse flies. Nonetheless, there were impressive Bantu states like the Kongo, plus in Zimbabwe there were chiefdom powerful enough to built large ringforts.

>One would think it would be more hospitable for growth in that region rather than right below Sahara
South Africa is the most hospitable part of sub-Saharan Africa for Eurasian crops, but a lot of it is actually inhospitable for the tropical African crops that Bantus grew. That's why whites settler there so much, not just because their own crops could grow there but because the area was already mostly empty.
>>
>>18760
COD PIECES
>>
>>23208

Europeans nations destroyed most of the evidences to support the idea of african being non-humans to be conquered.
>>
>>22729
Isn't she that bitch who kept a man harem, made two of the members fight each other to death, then fuck the winner, kill him in the morning and rinse repeat?
>>
>>14456
>you'll never have a cute androgynous Fula bf dressing up for you
>>
>>31346
Nice observation.

I know there's a dividing line somewhere in south africa where tropical crops are impossible to grow.

The bushmen and khoisan found refuge in the Mediterranean and desert climate.

Strangely enough central africa was the most remote and depopulated area of the continent. Mostly because of the rainforest and ridiculous rivers.
>>
>>31413
That's an exaggeration, but it really pisses me off what the British did to the Ashanti. They're buildings were cool as fuck, and they were all burned down. Now there are just a few tiny shrines left.
>>
>>13625
More like Hungry VIII

'cause he's hung, not 'cause he's hungry.
>>
>>23662
I dunno if i would call them comfy, but they look.. Organic? There's something about the construction that makes it look natural
>>
>>31432
Is that a guy?
>>
>>31494
yes
>>
>>21615
I mean, the Sahara didn't stop trade across Africa. Trade is how Islam spread to places like Mali. (Mansa Musa etc.)
>>
>>23827
No idea. But polynesian tribes would raid each other and kidnap each other's girls to make wives out of. Mostly bloodless too.

While friendly/allied tribes would naturally send girls to each other. I'm guessing certain african tribes did the same.
>>
>>31528
The biggest issue is that any non-native would have a hard time crossing the Sahara, while natives would be able to do it with some ease. It's not a friendly place by any stretch of the imagination. So Sub-Saharan traders could cross into North Africa, but Western traders could hardly go down.
>>
>>31413
Eh, not quite. Many african artifacts have been rescued by colonizers. There was no organized attempt to destroy or revise history by all European powers.

Of course exceptions exist. The white ruled zimbabwean government could actually have you arrested and your funding cut if you found or admitted evidence of Great Zimbabwe being built by ANY black tribes.

The British looted and burned down Benin city, carrying of vast numbers of ivory and bronze artwork. Admittedly the Edo shot themselves in the foot by hiding human sacrifice from ambassadors. Later crackpot conspiracy theorists claimed Benin was founded by Aryan Atlanteans whose black slaves were the only survivors because the idea of them creating such art was unbelievable.
>>
>>31580
Absolutely. But the West weren't the only people in the New World. And this isn't even touching on how the Eastern coast of Africa was heavily involved in the Indian Ocean trade network.
>>
>>14456
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV0SeJUczBw

This is terrifying
>>
>>31487
Indeed. The journals of British travelers and ambassadors made it sound beautiful before it was destroyed.

The Ashanti were one of the few tribes that the British empire respected as warriors. Mostly because of the fact that despite losing ultimately, they were very adaptable and clever.

If only the Ashanti king DIDNT tell his armies to stand down I think they would have put up a fight that'd make the Zulu jealous.
>>
Medieval Somalia had great trading cities, and their influence spread so wide that Indian ports had entire quarters and neighborhoods for Somalian merchants.
This legacy of seafaring and entrepreneurship lasted well into the 20th century:

"The Somali wanders afar. You will find him working as deck hand, fireman, or steward, on all the great liners trading to the East. I know of a Somali tobacconist in Cardiff, a Somali mechanic in New York, and a Somali trader in Bombay, the latter of whom speaks French, English, and Italian fluently". (Rayne, 1921)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_history_of_Somalia
>>
>>31929
Somalia used to be the shit. Too bad about the civil war.
>>
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>>31929
That lighthouse is Italian, here's a Somali one.
>>
>>11745
Fuck off /pol/
>>
>>31697
Different standards of beauty. I think its fascinating.
>>
>>23662
It looks incredibly cartoony, or animated even. I like it. Reminds me of the Windwaker.
>>
Reminder that mudhuts were good enough for the Romans.
>>
>>32511
Where are these African aqueducts, bath houses, colosseums, etc?
>>
Good books on African History? I could sign up for a masters program ''African Studies'' in Morocco next year (studying History with a minor in Arabic at the moment, so it'd be fitting). I'd prefer more narrative rich books, even historical novels would do to spark interest. I never get inspired to learn about anything through textbooks.
>>
>>32587
Reverend Al Sharpton is truly the best representation of historians of pre-colonial Africa, correct.
>>
>>32587
>Al Sharpton
Biggest cunt in modern history. He singlehandedly done more damage to race relations than anyone else, Trump included.
>>
>>31419

>implying that's not a great way to insure your kids are strongest

Men have done this sort of thing to women throughout history and they can still be classed as 'great men', why do the standards suddenly change for women. Yes, monarchs of the past often had tyrannical streaks, that don't mean they weren't strong leaders and tacticians and shit.


>tfw you will never be part of her harem
>>
>>33076
>Men have done this sort of thing to women throughout history
Can't say i recall any stories about men making the women fight each other to death, fuck them, and then kill them afterwards.

I don't mind that she had a harem, i don't like the fact that she made them fight each other to death for her amusement and sadofetish, and i hate the fact that she had the winner murdered the next day.
>>
>>33136
>I don't mind that she had a harem, i don't like the fact that she made them fight each other to death for her amusement and sadofetish, and i hate the fact that she had the winner murdered the next day.

Fair, on the other hand it gives ME a boner, so agree to disagree!
>>
>>17929
>tfw no African ninja game
>>
>we talk about the fact that Africa wasn't just mudhuts and Egyptians

But it was.

This isn't your African Studies class.
>>
>>18507
Eritrea and the Horn of Africa have long been known to have tribes that are diametrically opposed to the Bantus. In other words you're full of shit.
>>
>>20819
What about African rice and millet? Or were those not used as much?
>>
I'm always impressed by how much she looked like the Popess (classic High Priestess) Tarot card, that and being the African Cixi
>>
>>33547
Of course I forgot my pic.
>>
>>33565
>>
>>23827
Well, let's put it this way: They're the most genetically diverse people on the planet, especially the Khoisan and Pygmy people.

So probably not that common.
>>
>>30817
Southern Africa had the Great Zimbabwe Empire.
>>
>>33655
Great diversity at the continental level generally implies isolation and inbreeding at the local level.
>>
Dogon are cool.

they live on mountain sides
>>
I know that Mansa was rich as fuck, but how about the people? Were there simply a ruling elite while the peasants and craftsmen was dirt poor?
>>
>>16411
Stop assuming everyone who's ignorant of african history is /pol/. I've used /pol/ since it was made and I still like African history.
>>
>>33726
No that was in Zimbabwe
>>
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>>34171
>Zimbabwe is in Southern Africa
>implying I was talking about the country South Africa
>>
hey uhm
there was this group of hunter-killer women who specialized in beheading people. i think they were west african

anyone got more info?
>>
>>34434
Sounds metal as fuck
>>
>>34434
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons
i think
>>
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>>34434
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons

Here friend.
>>
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Lets not forget the sexiest African king Tewedros II , the founder of the Ethiopian state.
>>
This is an Igbo wooden carving depicting images of power and daily life, such as horsemen, imported goods, military insignia, Europeans, rifles, wild beasts and masqueraders.
>>
Has an interesting story too. Hes almost like the Robin Hood of Africa who becomes king and goes crazy

http://www.ethiogrio.com/biography/3545-tewodros-ii.html
>>
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I'm posting some art.
>>
>>35659
>>
Was Queen Ranavalona actually that bad or was that just western propaganda?

Btw, is Madagascar considered "Sub Saharan"
>>
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There are some sexy Habesha women, although there foreheads ruins it.
>>
habesha women
>>
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>>35794
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Head_from_Ife

Forgot to post this

>When the Ife heads first appeared in the Western World in the first half of the twentieth century, many experts compared them to the highest achievements of ancient Roman or Greek art. When Leo Frobenius discovered the first example of a similar head it undermined existing Western understanding of African civilisation. Experts could not believe that Africa had ever had a civilisation capable of creating artefacts of this quality. Attempting to explain what was thought an anomaly, Frobenius offered his theory that these had been cast by a colony of ancient Greeks established in the thirteenth century BC. He made a claim, widely circulated in the popular press, that his hypothesised ancient Greek colony could be the origin of the ancient legend of the lost civilization of Atlantis.

kek
>>
>>35804
Yeah, but Madagascar is a biracial place. If you see African art, you'll also see Austronesian art too.

I guess the best comparison would be like finding Japanese people in Mexico, when the Spanish first colonized that area.
>>
>>35856
>>
>>18910
>Professional artists were not a common thing in the region this piece is from
Which is an indicator of low development. Higly developed societies have perfected specilization to gain maximal efficiency.
>>
>>17929
Those are actually poor weapons, the reason why the blades are everywhere is because the designer had no understanding of physics, so he tried to place a blade that would cute with every rotation.
>>
>>16411
Without the Europeans bringing steel, glass, engineering, medicine, and all forms of technology Africa would be far more backwards than they are today. Much of Africa still is made up of Neolithic, Bronze Age and Iron Age tribes.
Quit kidding yourself, multiple native American societies had surpassed the technological levels of many tribes in Africa.
>>
>>36073
No. They were designed to be efficient from different distances, for jungle warfare. You had to hide up a tree, wait for the enemy and choose the right knife for the right distance
>>
>>36033
>>
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>>36144
>bringing steel, glass, engineering, medicine, and all forms of technology Africa would be far more backwards than they are today

You say that like every civilization had to invent everything they have access to themselves, as if history played out like a game of Civilization.
>>
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I regret buying this book because I know fuck all about archaeology
>>
>>36144
Africans had steel at roughly the same time Europeans did. Besides, Middle Eastern and Egyptian cultures also influenced European civilization, but you don't see me saying "If it wasn't for them, Europe would be backwards".

Humans influence each other all the time, for better or for worse.
>>
>>36355
Don't feed the troll>>36355
>>
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>>15479
I believe this is a throwing knife, not a sword.

reposting some of the tings i've posted on /rg/, along with some quotes from books.

>>13180
wow that's beautiful. I've never seen that one.
>>
One such outcome was seen
in 1580, when a few Portuguese soldiers defeated
the King of Angola.
When asked how such a success
was possible, Duarte Lopés wrote:

I reply that it might easily happen, seeing that …
the blacks wore no clothing, had no defensive
weapons and only bows and daggers as offensive
ones. Whereas our small numbers of men were
well covered with quilted jerkins lined with
cotton, and firmly double-sewn, which protected
their arms and reached down to the knees. Their
heads are covered with caps of this same material,
which are proof against arrows and daggers…
One cavalry soldier is equal to a hundred blacks,
who are greatly afraid of horsemen and, above
all, of those who fire the arquebuses and artillery
pieces, which cause them extreme terror.
>>
>>15705
Looks cyrillic as fuck
>>
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>>36073
nah, they work pretty well. They were used on deadliest warrior

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSfJluI0omk

skip to 16:40

>>23208
>Why is African history so sparse?

well the study of african history is still kinda new, european powers spent a long time trying to prove that africans are people without history that were banging sticks together before the europeans came. Also there isn't that much interest in the field right now.

>>33817
>Were there simply a ruling elite while the peasants and craftsmen was dirt poor?

I dont think so, see pic
>>
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>>36972
>well the study of african history is still kinda new,

also most of the people had no written language and as a result no written records.

There are the timbuktu manuscripts but I dont think their translated yet.
>>
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http://anthropology.rice.edu/content.aspx?id=500
>>
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotel
>>
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African history downloads.
http://pastebin.com/50SpNpVZ

the sword posted
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takoba
>>
>>11077
Nigeria's the best African country (lol) today so why not?
>>
>>15709
I don't know that much but since no one else has replied:

Coptic Christianity is the main Christian denomination in Egpyt. Christians first spread there during Roman rule, possibly in the 1st century AD and definitely by the 2nd. There were lots of interesting cults that came out of the eastern Roman provinces like Sol Invictus worship, so Christianity may have been seen as a similar phenomenon at the time.

A church heirarchy was established there long before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity, making it one of the oldest churches in the world.

The Christians in Egpyt only became a distinct denomination in the 450s AD when local bishops rejected the Council of Chalcedon, one of the councils that decided the official views of the Roman church. This places them in a group of denomination called Oriental Orthodox, which places them with other churches that rejected the Council of Chalcedon like the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

The Christian communities in Egypt were allowed to continue under muslim rule, but declined over time. They spoke a local Egyptian language (also called coptic), this was replaced by arabic for everyday use but continues to be used in liturgy. Due to the differences with the majority muslim arab population, the religion and ethnicity of copts have become intertwined as a unique identity in Egypt.
>>
>>37831
Holy shit, those resources are awesome dude, thanks! I've been wanting to learn about sub-Saharan history, these are going straight on my kindle.
>>
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>>38035
no problem man.
>>
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>>
Is anyone actually interested in African history, or do you just pretend to be for political reasons?
>>
>>38117
Why on earth would you be interested in something for political reasons?
>>
>>31664
>There was no organized attempt to destroy or revise history by all European powers.
Yeah. Most of the issue isn't direct destruction so much as neglect. The Europeans were there primarily for labor first, and then for resources and trade. Preserving and cataloging cultural artifacts for anything but sale was not on the top of their priority list. West Africa in particular had a very different paradigm from Europe when it came to record-keeping (instead of relying on scholars to write down [often subjective] histories and either preserve the books or copy them periodically, bard and griot classes were formed where histories were transferred orally, with accuracy being assured by the threat of what would happen to you if you miss-remembered), so there was no way for them to know how important it would be not to disrupt those social orders, if you wanted to keep the historical record intact.

Of course, this is different from America, where there actually was a purposeful attempt to destroy or revise African history, starting with the breaking and indoctrination of arriving slaves and extending through shitty wording in Texas history textbooks.
>>
>>33321
HAVE I GOT
SOMETHING
FOR YOU
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redorigins/red-origins-an-original-animated-series
>>
>>33746
Not at all. If the genetic spread is wide enough, you'll have a large amount of diversity even within local populations.
>>
>>38657
glad that got funded. I wish this one would succeed

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tephlonfunk/tephlon-funk
>>
>>36053
>Which is an indicator of low development.
In Eurasia.
>>
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Why did the mali empire get rekt too easily by north africans ?
>>
>>38941
I think it was because the Portuguese keked them out of gunpowder weapons
>>
>>39041
Keked
>>
>>39063
Wtf yo this phone sucks
>>
>Nok
Chien go back to intcraft
>>
>>38941
that obviously says 'Songhai Empire'.

Songhai empire kinda went to shit after Aski I's death. Lots of infighting between his sons and they were completely unprepared for the Moroccan invasion. Also the Moroccans had just bought a bunch of shiny new cannons and guns after they rekt out of the portugese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alc%C3%A1cer_Quibir


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire#Ouali_Keita_II
"Following Musa Keita III's death, his brother Gbèré Keita became emperor in the mid-15th century.[19] Gbèré Keita was crowned Mansa Ouali Keita II and ruled during the period of Mali's contact with Portugal. In the 1450s, Portugal began sending raiding parties along the Gambian coast.[62] The Gambia was still firmly in Mali's control, and these raiding expeditions met with disastrous fates before Portugal's Diogo Gomes began formal relations with Mali via its remaining Wolof subjects.[63] Alvise Cadamosto, a Venetian explorer, recorded that the Mali Empire was the most powerful entity on the coast in 1454.[63]"
>>
>>18046
Kush.
>>
>>39185
did all of mali get destroyed or what Im a north african and i visited Mali the people apparently like us alot for some reason but there was no monuments of their empire except some mosque built by the french
>>
The Madhist war must have been good fun.
>>
>>39271
>did all of Mali get destroyed

probably, i dont know for sure but it wouldn't surprise me, especially with places like Goa becoming nothing but huts by the time Heinrich Barth made his trip to africa.

>>39335
where is this image from?
>>
File: meroe pyramids.jpg (48KB, 600x388px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
meroe pyramids.jpg
48KB, 600x388px
The most underrated African Kingdom, even in this thread, is the Kingdom of Kush, or Meroe. Which was along the nile in modern Sudan.

I styled itself after Ancient Egypt, had its own Pharaohs, and believed it was continuing the ancient legacy after Egypt fell to the Greeks. It built its own pyramids, temples and had large cities and flourishing civilisation and trade. There are 255 Pyramids built by them. They supplied the superpowers of the age with elephants, their capital has a huge elephant stable and training area. They also supplied mercenaries across the world, there were kushites fighting in and against the armies of Alexander, for Egypt, for Rome and even back in the Persian invasion of Greece. The kingdom was powerful but it was hidden away from the world underneath Egypt but it supplied much of the ancient world with exotic goods like ivory.

At one point they even defeated a Roman armour and stole the head of Augustus off a statue, which was recently discovered.

They are what most people might called Nubians, but Nubian is actually an incorrect term for them which comes from the Noba people who invaded the area in the 4th century AD
>>
>>39666
I thought they and the Egyptians were contemporaries.
>>
>>23780
>tfw my white society will never govern by Xeer
>>
>>39666
>>39881

Yeah, the Kushites even ruled Egypt for a Dynasty before the Greeks (see: Piankhi)
>>
>>39881
No they were separate kingdoms. The kushites are neglected by historians and all to often grouped under Egyptians. Their study even comes under Egyptology. Which is not fair, the Kushites evolved alongside ancient Egypt, not from it.
>>
>>33786
Holy fucking shit, that's so cool.
>>
>>36073
pretty sure if I threw one at you, you'd be dead.

so: six of one, half-dozen of the other.
>>
When Axum conquered Kush, why didn't they press into Egypt?
>>
>>40691
Rome
>>
>>40691
Why should they?
>>
>>40691
because when they got hold of dat kush, egypt was the last thing on their mind
>>
File: 4362334527845.png (539KB, 986x1542px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
4362334527845.png
539KB, 986x1542px
>>17929
There's a guy in a video game called "Indivisible" that uses these.
Thread posts: 321
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