Archived threads in /his/ - History & Humanities - 2316. page

Nothing's unbiased. Everything has a point of view. What they wanted is less important than what they got. Because a lot of what they got was compromise on top of being fucking lucky as hell it all didn't fall apart on them sooner.

The most unbiased works you can read are the writings of the founding fathers themselves. The federalist papers for example or Notes of the debates in the fedearl convetion of 1787 reported by james madison.

But even these have their own biases. And even if what is written says something, what is not written could say even more. These men wrote down these things for posterity, but necessarily to convey every message they wanted.

From the Declaration of Independence:
>That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

Despite its ground breaking statement in political philosophy at the time and maybe for all time, many would be quick to point out the hypocrisy of men like the Founding Fathers making such claims when the kept men in bondage. However, you could read the DoI as also speaking for enslaved blacks in America. That they had a right to rebel against the colonies and then the American Government for the evils set upon them. That they only lacked the means to do it, so it never came to pass.

>>2016784
About bias, fair enough, but it's worth striving for still imo. What they wanted may not be important in the grand scheme of things, but a lot of people venerate whatever it is they think the FF wanted, and I find the topic interesting either way, esp. how we ended up with so many misconceptions about their intentions.
>a lot of what they got was compromise
I assumed as much, which is why I'm interested. I believe a lot of nuance got lost in the process.
>on top of being fucking lucky as hell it all didn't fall apart on them sooner.
This is something I didn't know. Care to elaborate?

I'll look into the fed papers and the notes you mentioned.

>what is not written could say even more
>...but necessarily to convey every message they wanted
While omissions are to be assumed, is there something specific you mean by this?

As for slavery, I assume they had one of those "goes without saying" exceptions when it comes to the morality of slave ownership, but it's a topic that goes way further back than US history, at least as far back as Eristophanes' Ecclesiazusae afaik, so it's a topic for another time I believe.

>>2016731
I think they were just like most people, and each had their individual things they wanted or desired in a new nation. It was quite remarkable that they came together as well as they did.

>>2016505
>Germans conquer Romans

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>>2016505
Uhm, stockholm syndrome works the other way around.
The Romans would have started thinking they were Germans.

That's not what happened, and that's also not what Stockholm syndrome is.

They jewe'd the habsburgs

>>2016488
How so?

>>2016483
>Why have I never heard of these Fuggers?
You seam to be murican since you count in dollars
They bought the Habsburg the Emperorship with their money. Became nobels(atleast one branch)
Jacob Fugger d.Ä. (I hope it was him and not his son) was while being rich as fuck,literaly the richest man in the HRE, impotent and wasn't able to make an heir.
Other than the medici they never sized direct political Power but had a huge influence onthe Habsburgs

>>2016325
speak of the devil
>United
>States
>of America

1/10 bait got me to reply to it

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>>2016325
>united

Monarchies and oligarchies are at least constitutional states with a modicum of stability.

>>2016183

oligarchy is just as bad.

monarchy is kind of bad, but most people think of a disney princess when they hear it so its good. Also, at least here in america, its such a foreign concept that its a joke to us. Like no one imagines anything other than a medieval king when they think of monarchy. Might as well be talking about cavemen witch doctors

Well going off a Platonic framework, a "monarchy" is not inherently bad. You can have a good king, after all. But "tyranny" directly means that your monarch is a bad one.

We most likely wouldn't be having this talk online.

if the battle took place immediately after Japan surrendered, then I could see Japan allying with the US and German POW being released and allying with the US. Soviets were in bad shape after the war ended, resulting in over 22 million casualties. US wins.

If the war broke out two decades after WW2, then it could go either way.

>it's 1950
>Japan had surrendered to the Soviet Union after their bumrape of Manchuria and surrounding areas, as the US never dropped the bombs and didn't launch their invasion if mainland Japan on time
>Japan is Communist
>Soviets find and kill the Emperor of Japan because damn dirty imperialist
>sparks anti-communist movement
>eventually Civil War
>America wants revenge for not getting a piece of that sweet Nip puss
>Support Japanese resistance with arms and resources
>Soviets tell them to fuck off, Yanks tell Them to fuck off
>come to blows in a naval confrontation
>war is declared
>Europe's armies are still fucked post-war
>Soviets are itching to kill some capitalists
>America in a Macarthy mood
>lots of people fucking die
>commies lose after years of war
>new world order of capitalism
>korea never happens
>vietnam never happens
>counterculture never takes off

feels good man

>>2015825
Milosevic, the Serbian president, was politically isolated and couldn't risk U.N. intervention. So he just funded/inflamed the Serbs living in Croatia (and there was a significant number of them) to do the fighting for him. Croatia employed a similar strategy during the Bosnian civil war, where at first they funded Croats in southern Bosnia to fight the Croat army.

>>2016750
*funded Croats in southern Bosnia to fight the Bosnian army

>>2016750
>>2016754

They'd already gotten pretty far though, right? And international opinion swung in like 93', way after the militias were the main fighting force. At first everyone wanted to stay out of it.

The Serbs could have won that war, sued for peace and then dropped everything so the RS could fight for itself and avoid international attention a little longer. I maintain that this was a miscalculation by Milosevic.

>>2015610
cheap labor.

>>2015610
Because we invented everything

>>2015610
because they didn't

>picture of Laozi looking smug

>not being a patrician Mohist

>>2015294
>>2015294
Tengriist or feel the fist

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Also, what do you think about his wall?

>>2014491
Looks like ass. 2/10 would not scale

>>2014486
We won't know until Trump assumes office and actually enacts policies.

>>2014170
Would dark age desert warlords find beheadings and torture appalling? No. Neither would 19 century Englishmen and French. And well, the shit that went on during ww2 in the time of your grandparents is much more hardcore than this isis shit.

>>2014209
>einsatgruppen putting bullets in skulls is the same as suspending people over gasoline flames
idk

>>2014170
>Or are they just the actions of the 7th century being brought into the first?

Evidently not, since they're being committed by people in the 21st century.

ISIS aren't that special, they're just poorly educated farmers in a power vacuum being whipped up by run of the mill nutjobs. Groups like them tend to crop up sooner or later.

>>2014083
no it is not.

It's pretty much proven they were Iranic (speaking)

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>>2014083

An autistic viking Ogre got domed by an Acme gun and nobody knows who did it but it was probably a butthurt nobleman.

(This is literally the only thing I know about Swedish history and it's because of this song)

Quest metal and historical immersion are fun

AHEAD
FACING THEIR LEAD
AN ARMY OF SWEDES
PERFORMING GOD'S DEEDS
SHOWING NO FEAR
THEIR JUDGEMENT IS NEAR
MAKING THEIR SACRIFICE

Paradox Games house band.

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>>2012162
drop one on Okinawa and the second one on the Ryu Kyu Islands
>why for the keks

ontario and toronto

>>2012203
nice choice anon! japan's really gonna think twice next time

Humanity would be about as fucked as we have ever been fucked. It really depends on the nations involved though. If say North Korea and China got into it for example, NK would be a giant crater and the single nuke that NK maybe has would go off course and hit Japan probably.

If any of the major nations fought a nuclear war with each other we would be talking life changing alterations to climate, much less the direct devastation caused by the blasts. We're talking thousands of nukes here.

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>>2011747
>tfw born too late to fight for Caesar
>tfw born to early to fight for Caesar

As >>2011758 said there are a lot of variables that could lead to vastly different outcomes. If you are talking about all the nuclear-equipped nations releasing their entire arsenals at once it would be pretty bleak.

Hundreds of millions of people would die in the initial bombing, and potentially hundred of millions or even billions more would die off in the following weeks due to radiation and starvation, modern H-bombs don't leave long-term radiation like older A-bombs do so it would fortunately be over rather quickly.
Things would quickly get worse though, the firestorms inevitably raging in every major city on earth would deposit mass amounts of ash into the planet's atmosphere, creating a nuclear winter that could potentially last up to a decade or two, this would kill almost all plant and animal life on earth. Basically the Earth would be completely fucked unless large scale terraforming was an option.

This is just worse case scenario though, it's completely plausible that only the northern hemisphere would sustain lasting damage and that the southern nations (Australia, Brazil, India) would keep on chugging.